Well, basically, I mean, after I had my near death experience, I was in hospital recovering.

And because of this experience, I felt like I was.

I was filled with a lot of beautiful energy and it was a spiritual awakening basically.

You know, it was just like suddenly I felt like a completely different person.

Suddenly I had no urge to drink alcohol, you know.

You know, my family were concerned about what was happening to me and they were worried that I'd be withdrawal symptoms and stuff, but I was okay, you know, and I.

Even though I was struggling from what the, you know, to process what happened with this horrific accident and struggling with the, you know, physically to recover that the, this spiritual awakening just gave me so much strength that I didn't care.

I just remained kind of present and in the moment while I was like in hospital recovering.

And so, so that was pretty, you know, and I just couldn't wait to get out and, and try and tell as many people about what had happened to me as possible.

Because a near death experience really is like, it's.

It.

It's like a view.

Well, not a view.

You actually, if you, you're entering the next stage after, after you die, basically, you know, this is what everybody who has a near death experience will tell you, you know, and so I just thought I've got to share it with people because I've got to share the fact that, that death is not the end.

That, you know, that the soul lives on and the soul moves on to a beautiful realm, a beautiful place.

And, and not only that, I was, I came back with.

I learned to love myself for the first time.

I learned to feel a sense self worth, you know, And I suddenly thought I'm.

I want to.

I want to do a painting of what I'd seen in this afterlife.

And I thought I want to write music about what I'd seen in the afterlife and what I felt.

Because it wasn't just what I'd seen.

It was a very.

There was lots of beautiful feelings that I wanted to express.

So that's where I'm at now.

So I spend my life now.

I'm an artist and a composer.

So, you know, the two kind of run each, you know, side by side.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But just to clarify, because you didn't have these gifts and talents prior, did you?

Well, I just.

I know I.

I had always sort of had an interest when I was a kid.

You know, I was, I was always interested in drawing and stuff like that, and I thought I could do something with this, but I was discouraged by my teachers at school.

You know, we used to have these kind of like careers advisors coming to the school and, and in the uk, it's, it's, it's the thing that they do and they say, right, you know, what do you want to do when you leave school?

You know, and it's kind of like there's some guy who sat behind a desk and I, and I say, well, you know, I want to be, you know, I'll be an artist, maybe go to art school or something like that.

I said, you can't go to art school.

You've got no academic qualifications.

You're never going to get them.

You know, forget it.

You get you, you know.

Yeah, that was it.

So that, that was just, that door was completely slammed too.

So, so, yeah, so, but basically.

But as I say, I came back with this feeling of self worth and I, and, and it gave me confidence to start doing all these things.

But.

Yeah, but I've got no formal training whatsoever in, in, in art, but also any formal training in writing music for orchestra, which is what I do now.

You know, I still can't read or write a single note of music, by the way, but I still managed to put music together for an orchestra and hear all those sounds and create them.

Yeah, so it's quite, it's, it's pretty mad.

I guess we definitely have to talk about that.

I just wanted to ask one thing.

I don't think we've gone here before.

And just for myself, like, I have a strong faith in God and spirituality, but is this something.

Because you mentioned the spiritual realm a few times.

Is that, were you, did you grow up this way?

Like, did you have spiritual or Christian beliefs growing up?

No, I, I kind of rejected all that, to be honest with you, because when I, when I was really young, you know, my parents were Christ and we'd all go to church as a family and I really didn't get it at the time.

You know, I just didn't feel comfortable in that setup, in that church setup.

And, and my parents were very liberal and I said to them, look, I'm not really enjoying this.

And I said, that's okay.

You stay at home.

So I used to just kind of stay at home and not go to church.

And, and so I, I never, I was never really, I wouldn't say I was atheist, but I was just kind of very not in up for the church idea.

And so, so I guess I kind of never let that into my life, which is unfortunate because I could have done with it at the time when I was Struggling, you know, I could have done with some faith in God.

I could have done with some spiritual awakening.

Then, you know, it did.

It came.

But.

But.

And I guess that's why it came.

That's how I see it.

I guess I was.

I was.

It's almost like, you know, I was given another chance to sort of turn things around, because I clearly wanted to.

In all fairness, you know, when I was told at school that I wasn't going to achieve anything because I wasn't.

No hope, basically, I thought, well, that's not true.

You know, I really want.

I want to do something with my life, you know.

So, yeah, so that was like, what.

You believed at the time.

Like some part of you was like, no, this can't be.

We've had this experience.

I mean, over here we call them guidance counselors, and I'm sure they do a lot of good, but there's stories that I've heard and experienced where they.

Because you're sewing.

You're supposed to be sewing into the lives of young minds.

And sometimes that little one conversation of, no, this isn't for you can really change the course of someone's life, especially when it comes to the arts.

I find that's a big thing.

Arts, music, and hopefully it's changed more now.

But I know that when I was growing up, you could really get discouraged from going down that path, and they would try and sort of put you into the.

Into a box that seems like a more stable, predictable life for you.

And I've heard so many stories, talking to musicians of those conversations where it's like, no, you don't want to do that.

That's not.

For you.

Do this instead.

And it's painful.

It hurts.

But I'm glad.

It took a lot.

It took a lot to kind of steer you back on course.

And I guess we all have our own journey.

Yours is, I don't know, of course, like an extreme version of it.

Like it's.

You were saying it's an extreme version.

Of it, but it's like a high place.

Yes, yes, indeed.

I know.

I know it's a.

It's an extreme version, but.

But it's all relative.

You know that there's.

I know that there's lots of other people go through.

Well, pretty much all of us, you know, we all go through it in life, you know.

In fact, I was having a conversation with a friend last night, and we were actually talking on the subject after saying how, you know, she said to me, you know, what.

What.

What do you think you know, your anxieties or issues or depression are caused by.

In your life over the years.

And I said, well, the teachers at school basically then that the irresponsibility of those adults, you know.

And she said to me, you know what?

It's the same with me as well, you know.

You know that those things have stayed with me.

It's like your blueprint for life, basically, those early years.

And.

And I think, I hope that it's better now.

I hope it's improved.

I hope that, you know, because it's just, you know, it is sad.

But I know what you're saying about art and music as well.

And I think everyone discourages you from doing art and music because it is pretty hard to make a living out of it, isn't it?

You know.

You know, to me it's like I envy people who, when I was working in on construction sites, yeah, I envied some of those guys because they were really skilled at their jobs.

You get carpenters or plumbers and stuff, and they were making really good money, you know, plumbers especially.

It's like, wow, you know, they'd make a, you know, a lot of money just to go and fit somebody's boiler, you know, for their bathroom or whatever, you know.

That's incredible, man.

You know, I'd be happy with that.

But with art and music, it's never that clear cut, is it?

You know.

Right.

Yeah.

It seems to be like, you know, there's a small majority of people who make an awful lot of money out of music.

Then the rest of us, we have to struggle by.