Track 1: Hello, welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,

Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the left.

Track 1: You can follow the show at leftoftheprojector.com. This week on the show,

Track 1: we're going to talk about something scary, and I know I don't mean the Nazi

Track 1: rally at Madison Square Garden.

Track 1: I'm referring to the 1973 film The Exorcist,

Track 1: directed by William freaking one of the highest grossing horror films of all

Track 1: time and with me discuss this film i have hugo who you know from episodes such

Track 1: as the shining and snowpiercer and i also have priscilla luna thank you both

Track 1: for being here today thank.

Track 3: You for having us i'm excited thank.

Track 2: You very psyched to be here.

Track 1: So as far as like the exorcist is concerned being like it's a i don't know it's

Track 1: If people were to someone make like a list of their favorite horror movies or

Track 1: like the list of the best horror movies, it's often on the top,

Track 1: you know, near the top of the list.

Track 1: But I'm actually curious because I got into not an argument,

Track 1: like a discussion with someone saying that it's not actually a horror movie.

Track 1: And I don't know. What do you think? Do you think this is a horror movie or

Track 1: do you think it's more it's partly like the director, William Friedkin,

Track 1: and also the author of the book kind of said it's not a horror movie.

Track 1: So what do you think? Is this a horror movie?

Track 3: Well, I guess it depends what you define as horror, right?

Track 3: So there can be like several types of horror, psychological or if something's

Track 3: like scary or like a jump scare or creepy or...

Track 3: So I think at the time it was a horror movie. If you see the reactions of the

Track 3: people at the time, it seemed like they were pretty freaked out about it and their response was...

Track 3: I would say they thought it was a horror movie, but I think it just depends who you ask.

Track 1: What do you think, Hugo?

Track 2: I think it's the most horror movie ever.

Track 2: It's just so scary. I have had visuals of the demon popping into my head.

Track 2: Whenever I'm in, sometimes I wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning and I look down.

Track 2: My apartment's like a railroad apartment. I'll look into the darkness.

Track 2: And I just imagine that base just kind of like popping out movie.

Track 2: The movie has scared me for, since I was a kid, it's one of the most,

Track 2: uh unforgettable horror movies i've ever

Track 2: seen um and i i think they didn't intend

Track 2: to make it a horror movie i think he says that he

Track 2: wants he wanted it to be like a documentary and that's

Track 2: kind of what makes it so scary is that it feels like you're just watching this

Track 2: stuff happen it doesn't feel like it's being filmed like fake like it feels

Track 2: like it's really happening to these people and we just happen to be like a fly

Track 2: on the wall and that's what makes it scary because i'm like this is real bro yeah.

Track 1: Yeah that's kind of how i i personally see it as a horror movie i saw for the

Track 1: first time when i was 11 years old and you can imagine it's not a movie you want to,

Track 1: see probably when you're that young and i always

Track 1: saw it as a horror movie but i think what you're saying hugo is right like william

Track 1: freaking and also the author of the book william peter blatty basically

Track 1: wanted it to be like a almost like

Track 1: a documentary in a way like and i think that it comes off as that way i think

Track 1: that's it's like a it's like a very high quality found footage of you know the

Track 1: plot of someone getting an exorcism and it's uh i i would say it's a horror

Track 1: movie whether or not what it doesn't matter what he says it's what we what we

Track 1: think but right it's yeah.

Track 3: I would definitely say it's horror especially if it sticks with you something

Track 3: that can stick with you and haunt you like that that's definitely horror.

Track 1: Yeah and i don't know i don't know did you said Hugo did you see it when I.

Track 3: Was nine when I watched it so we had no parental guidance

Track 3: in our we had no um and

Track 3: um yeah that that definitely stood with me for a while um I think especially

Track 3: watching as a child and then you're watching a child be possessed then it's

Track 3: even like it's 10 times worse I think for a child to watch it than an adult

Track 3: but uh yeah it's and even like documentaries are still scary.

Track 3: I would still, you know, consider it horror, even though it may not have meant to be that way.

Track 3: The realness of it makes it scary. So...

Track 1: Did you see it as a child, Hugo? Like when you were too young to see that?

Track 2: The thing is, my parents were very religious growing up. My parents were Jehovah's Witnesses.

Track 3: Wow.

Track 2: So I was not allowed to watch any horror. So any little snippet of horror that

Track 2: I saw, I think because my brain was like a horror virgin, any little thing I saw would freak me out.

Track 2: Like I saw the MTV Movie Awards in like 1993. 93, I just saw one clip of a kid,

Track 2: like a young teenage dude reading a book on his bed.

Track 2: And Jason stabs him through the mattress and like comes out from under the bed

Track 2: and holds him down while he stabs him through the mattress and through the chest.

Track 2: And I looked, I had to check under my bed every single night for like most of

Track 2: my life because of that one clip.

Track 2: I had no idea who Jason was. so like

Track 2: any little snippet of the you know i probably i think

Track 2: i know i saw the face somewhere and i

Track 2: didn't realize until i actually saw the film when i was like 17 18 and i was

Track 2: like oh my god this is the face i've been dreaming of just that black with just

Track 2: the white and look at you now amazing yeah that's all i want that's.

Track 3: Awesome i love.

Track 1: That it's weird it's like the two opposite things where you didn't watch horror

Track 1: movies and it's not like you're trying to catch up And then for me,

Track 1: I watched them at too young of an age and became like, I don't know,

Track 1: desensitized to them in some ways. And so I'm like always chasing the movie that will scare me.

Track 1: Like only a few movies have ever just really stuck with me. And this even this

Track 1: one did. And we'll talk about some of the scenes later that I think are like the scariest in this.

Track 1: And it's maybe not the ones people might expect, but we can.

Track 2: Demi, why you do this to me? Demi, why you leave me?

Track 2: Demi, Demi, why you do this? Amy.

Track 2: I think we needed that.

Track 3: Thank you.

Track 1: But yeah, so you, Priscilla, you mentioned, I mean, we'll talk,

Track 1: I'll kind of sprinkle some of the like little notes.

Track 1: I mean, there is probably very few movies that have a longer Wikipedia page than this.

Track 1: I mean, it is massive amount of content about the making of the movie,

Track 1: the book being made, like the story of just the book being written is almost,

Track 1: it almost didn't even get made.

Track 1: And the reason why it ended up becoming popular was because he had gone,

Track 1: William Peter Blatty was...

Track 1: You know called up late to join some like talk show

Track 1: the dick cavett show where he just randomly got to be on

Track 1: talk for 40 minutes about the book and then it became a bestseller he

Track 1: had met the director william freaking

Track 1: earlier in his life and he wanted him to be the director

Track 1: so all these like things happened that made this movie you

Track 1: know become to exist and just the the filming

Track 1: of the movie is incredible like they talk about all the injuries

Track 1: on the set and the director william freaking apparently claimed

Track 1: to a reporter that this the

Track 1: the uh the set was haunted when in

Track 1: fact he's just a crazy asshole and makes people do

Track 1: crazy shit and that's why everyone got injured on the set of this

Track 1: movie and so that's kind of like the the setting

Track 1: of this but i think one of the the first like kind of thing i'm thinking of

Track 1: being like this is you know left of the projector trying to uh think of some

Track 1: of the political aspects if there are any but this came out in 1973 which is

Track 1: kind of a period after the Vietnam War, just as Vietnam War is kind of like closing.

Track 1: We have the Watergate scandal. There's all these things about the government

Track 1: that people don't trust anymore.

Track 1: And I'm wondering if you think that this film, which is kind of like a mother

Track 1: not trusting science and then going towards religious exorcism as a reason for this.

Track 1: If that makes sense Do you think that the period of that end of the 60s hippie,

Track 1: peace and love, and to the 70s when films drastically were changing,

Track 1: do you think that some...

Track 1: How that plays into the movie, if at all.

Track 3: Yeah, no, I mean, I think there's, at the time, I believe Nixon started his

Track 3: second term, something like that, right?

Track 1: Yes.

Track 3: Yeah. And yeah, I don't know, like even as a parent and looking at, you know,

Track 3: the way she was questioning science and going into like,

Track 3: there has to be, it's almost like, and I

Track 3: don't know if this is even related but going to

Track 3: like another source to figure

Track 3: out like why this happened and why

Track 3: this is happening to her child and having to like think

Track 3: outside of science and even though all the doctors and everyone is telling her

Track 3: one thing or that she's crazy or that you know continuing to you know not listen

Track 3: to her because they didn't you know believe that it had anything to do with

Track 3: any supernatural powers or demons or anything like that.

Track 3: I think at the time, even like for people looking at it from a religious perspective,

Track 3: I'm sure it was shocking for them.

Track 3: And I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm trying to like,

Track 3: I think it probably was this scariest thing that they experienced at the time,

Track 3: even what was allowed to be shown on film then so the impact was i would say

Track 3: pretty real then for them.

Track 1: Yeah i mean the as far as like the the um

Track 1: well i mean we'll talk more about like the science and the versus kind of like

Track 1: the religious aspect but i think there is all these reports which is kind of

Track 1: like this is all part of the like the legend of the movie that people were like

Track 1: fainting in the aisles watching it and you're like puking in the bathroom and

Track 1: like they had to call the paramedics for people watching it.

Track 1: And then that led to hysteria. And then it led to more people wanting to see

Track 1: it and the hype grew and all these things.

Track 1: And I don't know. I just don't think if the movie had come out,

Track 1: later you know in the 80s or if it been in the 60s like it.

Track 3: Like it wouldn't have been it.

Track 1: Could like it could have come out at this like it is the perfect storm.

Track 3: Yeah i think definitely during the times for sure it made a difference because

Track 3: of you know of that moment and also what was allowed to be shown so i think it just yeah i was.

Track 2: Listening to uh i listened to something where the uh this guy was saying how

Track 2: back when he was a kid and the exorcist came out there were weekly issues of The Inquirer,

Track 2: and his mom would get him, and her and all her neighbors would read The Inquirer,

Track 2: and the cover was like, my son went crazy after watching The Exorcist.

Track 2: And it was like, every single week, there were these crazy stories of kids who

Track 2: just became demon worshippers, or are in the psych ward now,

Track 2: because they were good kids,

Track 2: good christian boys who watched the exorcist once and lost their

Track 2: minds and i think that's like the beauty like

Track 2: i what you were saying it does make sense that it

Track 2: came out at this time and why it was so popular because all you

Track 2: would see people people would just read the newspaper and every single newspaper

Track 2: article was like don't watch this movie it will turn you into cuckoo devil worshiper

Track 2: and everyone's like dude i'm like we just talked about like yeah tell me not

Track 2: to watch something I want to know why I shouldn't watch it.

Track 2: So yeah, it definitely has to do with that. But what were you saying about the

Track 2: government? Wait, wait.

Track 1: So here's the thing. So I'll add one more note about that.

Track 1: So at the time in like 1973, when it came out, the Christian Century,

Track 1: which was, I guess, a Protestant magazine,

Track 1: wrote an article back when it was out saying that Exorcist and the Watergate

Track 1: scandal were connected because they were both events as like psychodramas of

Track 1: the American soul was like the quote saying that you sort of like,

Track 1: there is this fear of the church and there was also this fear of science and not,

Track 1: trusting the government and so there are all these things that were kind of

Track 1: coming on in this like volatile moment in sort of the american political system

Track 1: like we weren't far from like the oil crisis a few years later and all these

Track 1: things were happening like it was this massive,

Track 1: cultural and social moment and people were like oh the exorcist like you know

Track 1: if if only we could just have an exorcism for like america and we'd be all right

Track 1: i don't know maybe i can this could all just be nonsense i could.

Track 2: See no yeah i guess i could see that i guess people were

Track 2: like uh you know reacting to everything that was

Track 2: going on in the world and they're just like yeah like you know but i think also

Track 2: i feel like this film isn't like very anti-catholic if anything i think it's

Track 2: like very pro-church like because to believe that an exorcist could solve this problem,

Track 2: means you have to believe in the Catholic Church.

Track 3: Yeah, and then the way he saves her at the end.

Track 2: And I don't want to knock the... I'm not going to knock Catholicism,

Track 2: but the film is basically like a bunch of doctors are looking at your kid,

Track 2: and they're like, I can't help your kid. But you know who can?

Track 2: The only person in the world that might be able to help your kid is a Catholic priest.

Track 2: That's it. No other religion. Not a rabbi. You know, not just a Catholic priest.

Track 2: So I feel like you have to believe in the Catholic Church to be rid of the demon.

Track 2: And so the whole film is kind of like a big advertisement for Catholicism.

Track 2: Maybe not an advertisement, but, you know, it does, you know,

Track 2: it poses it's like, here's a problem.

Track 2: And the only solution is Catholicism. Maybe I don't know if the Catholic Church

Track 2: loves the idea of the exorcist existing.

Track 3: But yeah, I would say it's a combination of science can't help you,

Track 3: but an exorcism can and the church can and only God can save this woman or I mean, this little girl.

Track 3: And then it's also shocking at them.

Track 3: And then also, yeah, I don't know if a lot of Catholic parents would want their kids to watch this.

Track 3: This movie. and then maybe for those who did watch it it was like their first

Track 3: time watching something so graphic,

Track 3: and um you know very um what's the word um yeah it was like too intense for

Track 3: them especially if they were like sheltered and protected and then they go and

Track 3: watch the exorcist and it's like you know what is this but i yeah i would say

Track 3: definitely it was more of like science can't help you but the church can and.

Track 1: It's weird though because part of like the scientific aspect is they go to doctors,

Track 1: they do like spinal taps and medical scans and all these things.

Track 1: Then they bring in psychiatrists. I think there is... I don't know as much about

Track 1: this. I didn't get a chance to look into it.

Track 1: But I wonder if at the time people were also skeptical of just like...

Track 1: I wonder if people saw psychiatry as kind of like a pseudoscience at this point in time.

Track 1: Like, it's not like now where everyone is going to it. Like,

Track 1: I think about like the show, like Mad Men in the 60s, people who like go to

Track 1: the psychiatrist would be like, oh, this person's crazy because they're going to a psychiatrist.

Track 1: And so they're bringing in people and they can't help her.

Track 1: So it's almost like reinforcing the idea that, you know, science is has its

Track 1: limits in some way. And the only thing that, like you said, Cuco,

Track 1: the only thing that can save them is a Catholic priest who is also a psychiatrist,

Track 1: which is the irony, I suppose.

Track 3: Right. And then it was the doctors who recommended her to see the priest, right?

Track 1: Yes.

Track 3: Like they were like, we can't help your daughter. So your next solution is go to a priest. Yeah.

Track 2: He kind of says it the way he was asking, like in that meeting that they had,

Track 2: he asked her, like, are you guys religious?

Track 2: Because this is kind of out there. But if you have a priest,

Track 2: I mean, he's kind of like removing a problem that doesn't actually exist.

Track 2: Because if this, he's like, we can't help you. But if this guy can,

Track 2: it means that the problem isn't real. It's in your daughter's head.

Track 2: She's made up a demon. And then the priest comes.

Track 2: And because she believes in Catholicism, the priest will remove the demon that she believes in.

Track 2: So I just think it's funny because the doctor's like straight up like I can't

Track 2: help you but if this guy can then you're actually not really you don't actually

Track 2: really have a problem which is why I can't help you in the first place and.

Track 3: Was she Catholic? I didn't get that she was religious I don't think so it was

Track 3: something that she went to even though she didn't believe in it.

Track 1: Which also would be like a win for.

Track 3: Catholicism right?

Track 1: We don't even believe in your religion but like please help us right.

Track 2: I don't want to you go.

Track 1: So i was i mean i mean unless it's about this because i was like

Track 1: going to go back a little bit just like briefly for i know we were talking about

Track 1: the film obviously but briefly give like a very general sketch i think it's

Track 1: pretty obvious what happens there's a girl she gets possessed and there's an

Track 1: exorcism that's kind of like you know it's in the title but if you have something

Track 1: about this i'll let you go and then i'll,

Track 1: go back one step no no no i.

Track 2: Was just gonna say i was gonna go further in so no let's stay back.

Track 1: Okay so the only thing i was gonna briefly just sketch out is so like there's

Track 1: one scene at the beginning and this is one where i'm curious i have read less

Track 1: about it i'm curious what you think so the very beginning of the movie well

Track 1: the very first shot is also super creepy where it takes place the the predominant

Track 1: part of this movie takes place in georgetown in washington dc like a very nice neighborhood.

Track 1: And there's this slow panning shot of the house from over the river,

Track 1: which is like super creepy. And the music is going, it's like 25 seconds long.

Track 1: And then all of a sudden they take you to Iraq where one of the other priests,

Track 1: this guy Lancaster Marin is in an archeological dig and they kind of have him

Track 1: get some little winged, you know, what is it called? Like a stone figurine or something.

Track 1: And he has like these visions and then it just kind of jumps and takes you back

Track 1: to the United States to the Dorshown again and introduces you to all the characters.

Track 1: Like what do you make of, of that whole scene at the beginning and like how it even relates?

Track 1: Because sometimes I struggle to figure out how it fits in other than the fact

Track 1: that later that same priest is brought in for the exorcism.

Track 3: Well, the, the idea was that that he was like haunted and tormented since then,

Track 3: since he found that whatever the the

Track 3: face the god or right like wasn't it

Track 3: that like it came from like his his own

Track 3: experience his own like uh introduction to

Track 3: these this energy this like demon energy

Track 3: was in iraq and even

Track 3: the way that they film that whole beginning scene is

Track 3: a little like kind of creepy has its

Track 3: little like creepy moments um and then you're

Track 3: just trying to figure out like because he didn't say much or even talk much

Track 3: but it's all just like visuals of you know the landscape and his experience

Track 3: that it was like a very spiritual you know demon connection experience that

Track 3: he had which then he later brought it into his work back to the states i don't know like.

Track 2: I think he awakened pazuzu the demon

Track 2: in the book and i think and they say are in the first chapter

Track 2: like it's mentioned um it's it opens the book opens exactly the way the movie

Track 2: opens like with just iraq and he's doing the same thing he's excavating the

Track 2: thing and then um i think the demon kind of possessed uh possessed her to get to the priest well.

Track 1: Because later when she's playing the tape backwards it says marron.

Track 2: Yep. So the demon is already asking for him. And then as soon as you cut to

Track 2: the to the other piece in the church, they're like, Oh, we got to get Marin,

Track 2: you know, and it was it's just like, he said it all in motion in Iraq,

Track 2: the demon was Yeah, because I don't know if they did it in the and I can't remember

Track 2: if they did in the film, because that's a problem when I read when I start reading.

Track 2: And then I watched after whatever, watch the film, read the book,

Track 2: it's bad. So I can't remember which is which.

Track 2: But as the priest is leaving, he's like going back to the States.

Track 2: And the guy that was helping him who's like, I think he's like a father.

Track 2: Over for Zuzu, he's like, I don't want you to go home, you know,

Track 2: or something like that. Like, I don't want you to.

Track 1: Right. He says that. Yeah. Yeah.

Track 2: That might be in the book.

Track 1: No, he says that he's like in there, like in a little study and he's telling

Track 1: him that he shouldn't have to go.

Track 2: Okay. That was, I think that's the.

Track 3: I, I didn't find the connection of their home.

Track 3: Was there something in the home that she found that was connected to this demon

Track 3: who then I, I, I missed that.

Track 3: There was, what was it that, yeah, what was an attic that she found or I know

Track 3: she was She had the Ouija board, right?

Track 1: Yeah. It's one of those things. It's funny. I didn't make that connection,

Track 1: Hugo, that he kind of... I've seen this movie many times, and I never really

Track 1: made that connection that he sort of unlocked the demon and it sort of followed

Track 1: him home and brought them together.

Track 1: I assume that because of the proximity of their house to that Catholic church, that somehow,

Track 1: the person knew Maren through the connection of the church, that that's why

Track 1: it seems to just possess that house that was just it just luck you know.

Track 2: I'm just no i mean my thing i'm it's not an explanation

Track 2: at all it's just eerie because basically because

Track 2: i also laid down earlier and just opened the book

Track 2: and read the first little chapter and of iraq and that's exactly what happens

Track 2: like pazuzu like and then at the end what doesn't happen in the movie is that

Track 2: the guy that says i don't want you to go home literally gets up and goes to

Track 2: the site and like sort of like praise to the statue and that's how the chapter

Track 2: ends like something like that yeah like.

Track 3: It called him to come to him yeah.

Track 2: So i just feel yeah so i feel like it was

Track 2: like uh it's like clearly letting you know like okay pazuzu is now awake and

Track 2: knows that maron exists and maron is about to go home like that's the information

Track 2: that we are are given right at the beginning um so going from that i'm thinking

Track 2: yes the demon is now hunting uh maron and he's gonna to figure out a way to get him.

Track 2: And the spiritual world is spooky, man. I don't know where it's going.

Track 2: I don't know how the demon controls the wheels that turns.

Track 1: Yeah. And there's also the connection. So Father Damien Karras,

Track 1: who's the doctor we meet not too long after that, his mother lives in New York who ends up dying.

Track 1: And it seems like perhaps the demon is making its way through this kind of the

Track 1: church and these different people to get to someone that can connect them all

Track 1: together in some way. And it's, uh,

Track 1: What did they say? Like things like, you know, spiritual, you know,

Track 1: can things work in mysterious ways?

Track 1: Like it's, it's a, it's a, it's an exorcism. Like they can, they can have it

Track 1: do what it wants. It's a, it's a demon. It has no rules.

Track 2: Yeah. And I think, I mean, even like biblically, like if you like in the Bible,

Track 2: like things, I just feel like God, like if you think I'm going to get too spiritual,

Track 2: you can tell I was religious, right?

Track 2: So the idea that God works in mysterious ways is literally like,

Track 2: everything just falls into place like a rock

Track 2: rolls down a mountain and hits a tree

Track 2: and the vibration sets a bird to fly and

Track 2: you know what i mean and it just all these things are happening at the same

Track 2: time and they just end up in the exact same place to make this one thing happen

Track 2: that the demon wanted and like that is all that we're seeing the entire film

Track 2: until boom at the end yeah with sorry i didn't want to spoil the end that's

Track 2: okay i'm not gonna say it but yeah Well.

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, there's spoilers in this generally. But yeah, I know that I think that all makes sense.

Track 1: And so yeah, so after they have that kind of Iraq scene, you kind of were introduced

Track 1: to the girl who's Reagan, Reagan, Reagan,

Track 1: Reagan, Reagan, yeah, rags, and the her mother, who is an actress,

Track 1: and they're filming a movie, which ironically, also like seems to have like

Track 1: protests at universities, too.

Track 1: Yeah, so they have that going on. And so that's kind of how everything,

Track 1: you know, slowly, Reagan starts to have like these violent shakes and she gets

Track 1: taken to doctor after doctor.

Track 1: And we were talking about before with like the medical, you know,

Track 1: thing where they're just going to all these different people until they finally

Track 1: have this explanation that she is actually, you know, a, uh,

Track 1: she's possessed and they need an exorcism.

Track 1: But then we also sort of have like this underlying plot where the detective

Track 1: in Georgetown is looking into the death of the director of the, of the film.

Track 1: And supposedly they seem to believe later that

Track 1: reagan had thrown it from the window

Track 1: not it thrown him from the window and killed

Track 1: him on the exorcist steps it's like it's like

Track 1: slowly you're seeing like the demon is like escalating it's uh you know it's

Track 1: uh abilities from just kind of violently causing her to make the bed shake to

Track 1: just being you know creepy as fuck and then maybe having one of the uh creepier

Track 1: moments when it she's like spiders backwards down the stairs.

Track 1: That was one of the things that scared me.

Track 3: Well, I think it's interesting also how the demon pushes people's buttons through her, right?

Track 3: So like he used her or, you know, it used her to say, to connect with the people

Track 3: that were around her, right?

Track 3: So she said something personal about his, to the priest about his mother that

Track 3: the little girl wouldn't have known.

Track 3: You know, so it seems like,

Track 3: The demon was there to just terrorize everybody in their own,

Track 3: you know, like personally.

Track 3: And I think that's where the priest realizes like, okay, this is not just a

Track 3: psychological trauma or seizures or anything that she's having.

Track 3: But this is actually, there's something else that is speaking through her.

Track 3: Because how would the little girl know about the priest's mother?

Track 3: Because I believe she's made a comment about his mother. And so it seemed to,

Track 3: you know, or the way she spoke to her mother, what she said to her mom,

Track 3: you know, or, or even how she's how you could see how Reagan would,

Track 3: like, ask some like, kind of like personal questions to the mother to get her to,

Track 3: to like bother her or she would say things about like, the mother's personal

Track 3: relationship with, you know, people around her.

Track 3: And I don't know it seemed like definitely the demon speaking through her to

Track 3: to the priest to the mom to the director all of that was to kind of freak people out.

Track 2: And also before I think actually I lost I don't have the order of events in

Track 2: my head but I'm pretty sure when they were at the party she comes down and she

Track 2: tells them you're gonna die up there and then she peed pants she Is that before the director dies?

Track 1: Yes. The director dies the next day. Or the next scene.

Track 2: Right. And I think the demon... I think Pazuzu is just trying to get everyone's attention.

Track 2: Again, I'm just operating on the idea that he wants Marin in the room.

Track 2: He wants to prove that an exorcism is needed.

Track 2: So Pazuzu is just trying to do some exorcist shit.

Track 2: So right away, he's like, let me have her pee her pants in front of everyone,

Track 2: premonition of a death, then the death happens, which by the way,

Track 2: did they ever show the director?

Track 1: No.

Track 2: Because like the, I love that they don't show it because he just says it.

Track 2: Like the way his head is spun is

Track 2: just doesn't seem like an accident and that just puts this visual in the head

Track 2: of the head completely turned around and you're just like whoa like i just that

Track 2: visual really like stuck with me just because it actually didn't show it you

Track 2: know and i just imagined it um i noticed it this last time i watched it.

Track 1: Yeah sometimes just like describing those things or

Track 1: like things that happen off camera you know

Track 1: but they but then they tell you about almost is like more

Track 1: powerful because you imagine this and

Track 1: then later you do see reagan or the demon like head

Track 1: spin around you're like right it's it's like connecting all

Track 1: of these uh like these threads together and it's uh

Track 1: extremely creepy and that's one of the the scenes that most people who were

Track 1: watching at the time were like shocked about was the the girl's head spinning

Track 1: around but i don't think that that's necessarily the the scariest thing which

Track 1: well we can get to that we'll get to the maybe some of the scariest moments but yeah i'm.

Track 3: I'm curious do you think how like i wonder how many people read the book before they watched the movie.

Track 2: The book was wildly popular it was very popular before the movie came out and

Track 2: then i think and it's right like i think when i watched the documentary it talked

Track 2: about that the book became very popular and this it's it was like selling out

Track 2: a bunch um before the film came out i don't think everyone had read it but.

Track 1: I haven't read it personally so So I'm curious.

Track 3: Like if what my personal reaction would be had I read it first before I watched

Track 3: the movie or even – because you both have read it or started reading.

Track 3: And I think that would be like a next level.

Track 3: If you read the book and watch the movie, you get sort of like a whole picture

Track 3: of it. It's kind of cool. It makes me want to read the book.

Track 1: Yeah. I read it like 15 – I just got it. Like a number of years ago.

Track 2: Did it have this cover?

Track 1: No. Mine had a black cover with like a little –.

Track 2: Oh my gosh, that's scary. My wife was like, you need to keep this face down

Track 2: at all times. And then she put it face down.

Track 2: She put it face down last night and right after she walked out, I flipped it back up.

Track 2: And then like 10 minutes later, I was like, did you flip this back up?

Track 2: And I was like, no. And she was like, oh my God.

Track 2: She thought it flipped back up on its own.

Track 1: Well, so yeah. So here's a, well, this is unrelated to that,

Track 1: but this is just like a more of a story.

Track 1: I'm originally from like the DC area where this film takes place.

Track 1: And I've walked the exorcist stairs like numerous times.

Track 3: Oh no, no thanks.

Track 1: And it's one of those things. Like if there's one of the documentaries, there's a few of them.

Track 1: One of them talks about how they like eventually in maybe the 2015,

Track 1: they reunited the whole cast, not the whole cast, like the director.

Track 1: And they ended up making a plaque next to the staircase and this whole thing.

Track 1: And so I walked up and down there and I found I walked the steps.

Track 1: And I have to say, like, that was almost scarier than the movie.

Track 1: And I walked it at night, too.

Track 1: And it's very creepy. And it's like there's like a gas station at the bottom.

Track 1: And it's not like a very exciting area. at the top is like very fancy houses

Track 1: and row houses and all that because they lived in this you know pretty nice

Track 1: i guess you could call it a mansion i don't know very large home but yeah the it just yeah.

Track 3: And so that's where the where the priest died like that's where they found him the bottom.

Track 1: Of the steps the bottom of the steps yeah yeah yeah and then plus the very end

Track 1: is that how long it takes to get there only.

Track 2: Four hours from us i should go i want to get.

Track 1: Wouldn't it been interesting to have like recorded the episode of the exorcist at the exorcist there's.

Track 3: That would be cool.

Track 2: At night bro at night we could do it in,

Track 2: at night at the bottom of the steps.

Track 1: And just sit there around going to that i'm going back uh to dc area in like

Track 1: january i should go there and uh you should take a record myself doing i'm sure

Track 1: i'm sure that's happened i can't be the first one stay.

Track 3: Time us when you're when you're there so we can see it.

Track 1: Oh yeah i'll take a well you know what i should do i was gonna say i could i

Track 1: don't know when this will come out exactly but it would be interesting if i

Track 1: if i held it to what when i did that and then recorded like a little opening

Track 1: of me at the actual stairs hello.

Track 2: This is evan and i'm at the bottom of the steps from the exorcist this episode of.

Track 1: Left of the projector pod i thought i thought you were gonna say that i get

Track 1: like killed by the demon like the episode never airs.

Track 2: At the end of this podcast i will be possessed and then slowly throughout the

Track 2: podcast you should edit your voice to just go from like talking so.

Track 1: That actually leads me to a really funny it's actually not that funny so the

Track 1: woman who plays the voice of pizzazzle is this woman i think her name is mercedes

Track 1: mccambridge so she at the time had quit smoking and drinking but bullion bladdy

Track 1: made her drink and smoke to make the voice sound more authentic oh.

Track 2: My god what a scumbag bro.

Track 1: She needed that paycheck. Yeah. It was later in her career, I believe.

Track 1: She wasn't a huge star. Here's a couple other little notes. People should watch

Track 1: the documentary. I don't know if these are in there.

Track 3: I watched it. I liked it.

Track 1: It was good. Oh, yeah. It's really good. William Friedkin apparently had a gun

Track 1: with blanks in it that he would apparently fire at random to make the people

Track 1: on the set get really scared before a scene.

Track 1: He also slapped the actor who played Damian Karras, the Jason Miller across

Track 1: the face before one of the scenes, because he wasn't performing.

Track 3: Wow.

Track 1: He just like slapped him across the face without telling him.

Track 3: Yeah. And then were there like a lot of people dying while they were filming?

Track 3: Like people's like, you know, relatives or like their while they're filming,

Track 3: there's people like there was like a lot of death.

Track 1: And then even afterwards and a lot of injuries on the set. So I don't know how

Track 1: to explain the deaths related to the family members, but anyone who was injured

Track 1: on the set is probably because the director was a complete psycho.

Track 3: Yeah. No, yeah. She, yeah. She explained the mother. I forgot the mother's name. um though.

Track 1: The uh chris uh mcneil.

Track 3: Yeah she well i think it was her right where she was

Track 3: she was explaining how it was so like she would get hurt and she would ask you

Track 3: know for them to like you know um not be so aggressive and instead of honoring

Track 3: her request they just kept going and And they're like, we don't care.

Track 3: I bet the actor's rights were very different then. They didn't have very many.

Track 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah, they did not have a union.

Track 2: Also, I don't know if you have this in your notes, but my wife read the book very young.

Track 2: So as we were watching, she told me a lot of this stuff. But all the green goo was split pea soup.

Track 3: Oh.

Track 1: I did not have that in my notes, but I know about that.

Track 2: And then the other one that she says is that one of the first things that Reagan

Track 2: like happens with her is that she keeps slapping up and down the bed,

Track 2: like pretty much doing sit ups up and down the bed and like,

Track 2: and her legs are like attached to the bed.

Track 2: But she's like, so that really hurt. Um,

Track 2: the actress's uh back linda blair she like had major uh spinal issues from that

Track 2: mechanism whatever it used to bring her up and down that fast um and she struggled

Track 2: with back with like back issues for a long time i think.

Track 3: I think they said in the documentary that it was just like like the men were

Track 3: just like shaking the bed that's what i thought.

Track 2: Well no no but there's also a scene where she's slapping up and down like pretty

Track 2: much doing sit-ups back and forth.

Track 1: Yeah, one of the other crazy notes that I had about the filming,

Track 1: oh man you were talking about the oh, now, maybe it was about Linda Blair oh,

Track 1: I know what it was so like in the scenes where they're in Reagan's room where

Track 1: it's like you could see their breath because it's really cold,

Track 1: so originally they were just gonna to like add that in or just not have it but

Track 1: william freaking it's like no we need to have their breaths to make it really

Track 1: cold so they installed basically what amounted to like a freezer in the room

Track 1: and they can only film for like two minutes at a time because it was like negative

Track 1: 20 degrees or something inside of there.

Track 3: Yeah so those that's what makes it really fairer because they didn't have all

Track 3: the props that we have now that makes movies look dumb like something i appreciate

Track 3: about watching the exorcism was like all of this was like real right so there's

Track 3: not like this all this like cg and there's like fake background and,

Track 3: like there's almost like no art left in modern

Track 3: day movies now whereas like when you're watching those like scary movies like

Track 3: we were even watching elm street the other day and i was like that's like i

Track 3: appreciate it because it was it was real it feel it felt really real than what

Track 3: they make today so i really like that horror.

Track 1: Is the only genre.

Track 2: That's probably what william friedkin was,

Track 2: screaming at the actors when they were like complaining about being

Track 2: her he's like we're creating art yeah yeah like i

Track 2: just looked it up uh yeah yeah um for

Track 2: the scenes in which reagan pazuzu thrashes around

Track 2: in the bed blair was strapped to a heartness a harness

Track 2: it would repeatedly bang off her spine in a

Track 2: sequence in which the bed levitates a technical failure fracture

Track 2: her back and the injury developed scoliosis leaving

Track 2: her in chronic pain for years so she

Track 2: has scoliosis because of this and william friedkin also william friedkin's remember

Track 2: he's just coming off french connection so he is like hot he is like i am an

Track 2: amazing director i make art this is real shut up and take it like.

Track 3: This isn't a movie this is this is a documentary it's real.

Track 2: I mean that's what like if.

Track 1: You that's what i think also adds to the like the the uh not the ambiance but

Track 1: just like the epic level of how how it was received at the time like it all felt,

Track 1: completely real like you go into a room and it's really cold and you see the

Track 1: breath you see the thrashing around all those things like everything i thought

Track 1: the thing you were going to say was like they actually gave her a spinal tap.

Track 3: Oh my God.

Track 1: I'm just kidding.

Track 2: Dude, that whole thing, that whole scene was super hard for me to watch.

Track 2: That's, I hate like medical procedures.

Track 2: Like that was really the, just the sound and everything was shaking and the

Track 2: way they like, that looked really real. The way they went into her.

Track 2: Um it was very that was probably one of the hardest scenes to watch besides

Track 2: her what size is the scene with her in the cross.

Track 1: For me actually the most disgusting scene i also don't like medical procedures

Track 1: it's one it's one thing if it's like a horror movie and they just get like their

Track 1: head chopped off that's not the same thing but the moment when they do the little

Track 1: like blood drawing at her neck and like the little blood spurts out that to

Track 1: me is the grossest part of the movie that was.

Track 2: Super real that felt very real and that that's what i was talking about that's

Track 2: the scene And it was just really that disturbed me watching.

Track 3: And especially because it's a child. And I think that what makes it even more

Track 3: traumatic is when you're watching all this happen to a child,

Track 3: then it's not it's not the same if it was like an adult that was possessed.

Track 3: Right. And that's why, you know, I think it makes it even even that like the

Track 3: creepy image on that book. Like if I was like an adult. OK.

Track 3: But I think even the innocence of children. And when you turn that innocence

Track 3: into like demon possession or even the torture,

Track 3: even like all the testing and all the medical tests that they did on the little

Track 3: one, you're just like, it leaves you more of an impact because it's a child

Track 3: being tested and who's like suffering and like, you know.

Track 3: So, yeah, I think for sure because it's a child, it makes it even more.

Track 1: I wonder if that's also the response from people who saw it at the time.

Track 1: Because imagine all the adults watching this having children and watching this

Track 1: happen to a little kid probably makes it more terrifying.

Track 1: I mean, maybe it's also speaking as like a parent, it's easier to have that

Track 1: image in my head of like, oh my God, like your own child going through all this

Track 1: and you're just watching and you can't do anything. Yeah.

Track 3: Watching it as a child, watching the child be tortured is traumatic.

Track 3: But then now as a parent, watching that same movie, watching it as a parent,

Track 3: it's a different type of drama.

Track 3: So yeah, I think it's interesting how it impacts depending on your age or who's

Track 3: watching or at the time, all of that.

Track 2: I also feel bad for father for the

Track 2: father's mom for father Karras's

Track 2: mom because remember when he first goes to visit her I know I don't think we

Track 2: covered this but when he first goes to visit her that was one of the first notes

Track 2: I took is that remember how like the hood that she lives in was so dilapidated

Track 2: like that is very old New York.

Track 2: It looked so impoverished like there was so much trash and she must and she

Track 2: lived like several flights up and she's super old and she's living in this apartment

Track 2: by herself and that also like I hate anything that's like hurting children or like very elderly,

Track 2: the saddest scene is when she when he goes back and finds her in the in the

Track 2: mental health center in the,

Track 2: ward because you know he even says he's like he

Track 2: he was telling the other priest he's like i lost my faith and i want and i miss

Track 2: my mother you know i feel like i should back in with her like i really need

Track 2: to take care of her and boom like right away she's in the psych ward and then

Track 2: and then right after that she dies and it's just like so heart-wrenching um yeah.

Track 3: The movie covers it all It covers like the connection with your mother,

Track 3: connection with your child, you know, even covers like, you know,

Track 3: actors and their roles and their relationship.

Track 3: And it's just it covers a lot.

Track 3: Then it kind of gives you the like the crime, you know, the detective perspective.

Track 3: So it was really interesting to see, you know, it covered a lot of several experiences.

Track 1: We kind of talked about this before, actually. It was what you said,

Track 1: Hugo, that reminded me, is that the Father Karras also, as you described, is losing his faith.

Track 1: So he's also literally losing his mother. His mother is, you know,

Track 1: he can't protect her, can't help her.

Track 1: He's losing his faith in his own religion. and then he's later then dragged

Track 1: in to do this exorcism and it's sort of like insane,

Track 1: that he then has to do this despite the fact that he he like he was like trying

Track 1: to talk himself out of doing this he's trying to like find excuses not to do the exorcism but then,

Track 1: He finds enough information. He also feels like he needs to help.

Track 1: He couldn't help his mother. He can help the girl, is the way I read it, right?

Track 1: So it's really, it's very sad. And I don't know if anyone has seen,

Track 1: if you've ever seen Exorcist Part 3, because he's in the third movie,

Track 1: which I won't spoil for anyone who hasn't seen it.

Track 3: I haven't seen it.

Track 1: The second movie is terrible. It's unwatchable. But the third movie,

Track 1: it might even be better than this movie.

Track 3: Okay.

Track 1: I'll take.

Track 2: The third movie has the jump scare that has made me jump the worst I've ever seen.

Track 1: It's like the best jump scare in any movie.

Track 3: Really? How am I not seeing that movie?

Track 2: And that scene, and then when you rewatch it, the scene is just so long.

Track 2: Anyway, let's not jump into it, but yes, you should watch Actors of Three.

Track 1: Just to connect them, there's several characters that are in it.

Track 1: So Damien Karras is in the third one. You also have the not father,

Track 1: is it Father Joseph Dyer, who sort of is kind of like his good friend in the,

Track 1: what is it called, the diocese?

Track 2: The one that brings him the whiskey when he's in bed all sad about his mom.

Track 1: Yes, yes. Like he's his good friend. And then, yeah. And so the one thing that

Track 1: we didn't even mention is, so for anyone out there who doesn't know,

Track 1: there is the regular theatrical cut of this movie, which is actually the one

Track 1: that William Friedkin wanted to release.

Track 1: And then there's the slightly longer version i think

Track 1: it's called like the version you've never seen or something it's not

Track 1: technically the director's cut because the director didn't

Track 1: actually want that one to be released and in the

Track 1: unreleased version they actually add a scene

Track 1: near the end where joseph dyer who's

Track 1: the the other father is you know

Track 1: kind of connects with the uh

Track 1: the other with the detective the detective and

Track 1: so that kind of leads into the third movie which i won't

Track 1: again i keep talking about the version that i saw right so like if you watch

Track 1: the third one it actually makes more sense related to the the sequel or which

Track 1: i don't think they intended i don't you know i don't know because they hadn't

Track 1: even actually the person who directed the third movie is actually william peter

Track 1: blatty the the author of the book okay.

Track 2: Oh okay so maybe that's why it's cut so differently also i think like i've only

Track 2: i had only seen the the version you've never seen that's the only version i

Track 2: had ever seen because the first time i saw the film was when that.

Track 1: One came out okay and.

Track 2: Then i i've re-watched i re-watched in

Track 2: like 2010 i re-watched in like 2015 and then i realized this time i put it on

Track 2: to watch it for the podcast because it's and i went to put it on and i realized

Track 2: that's the only version available to me is the theatrical and i had never seen

Track 2: it and i actually really enjoyed it because it's way more like bing bang boom to the point,

Track 2: By the time The Exorcist, by the time Father Marin actually shows up in the

Track 2: film, there is only 25 minutes left in the movie.

Track 2: Like 20 minutes. And I was like, how are they going to wrap this up in 20 minutes?

Track 2: I could not remember how it ended.

Track 2: And it was crazy. He walks in and they just bang it all out and everything happens.

Track 2: I think the theatrical version, I think if you're listening to this and you've

Track 2: never watched the theatrical version, I think you should rewatch it theatrical.

Track 2: Theatrical and then i went on youtube and watched all the uncut all the cut

Track 2: scenes got it to like get a full picture of what i had missed i.

Track 1: Agree i think that the theatrical is a better version which usually is not my

Track 1: opinion usually i think like the added scenes are like meant to be there like

Track 1: you know i'll i'll die on the hill that like the lord of the rings is better

Track 1: like the extended versions but in this case theatrical i think is the better version.

Track 2: The only scene that i feel like is missing um

Track 2: and i realize now that it really does

Track 2: make a difference is after the director dies

Track 2: and the guy walks in and says did you hear

Track 2: um he's dead and she starts crying and

Track 2: he like pats her on the back and he walks out of the

Track 2: room and it's right after that that reagan comes

Track 2: walking down backwards down the stairs and like spills the

Track 2: blood out so that i realized

Track 2: i didn't make the connection in the theatrical version that

Track 2: it was her that had killed the director um

Track 2: in fact i didn't even realize that anyone thought

Track 2: that until the mother said it she she at

Track 2: one point she said to the i think he killed him you

Track 2: know and i didn't i didn't realize i didn't connect the dots so i just think

Track 2: that if but i i understand that the only reason they cut that scene from the

Track 2: theatrical version is because in the original one you could see the wires because

Track 2: they didn't have the cgi to like edit out the wires so it would look too fake,

Track 2: If they had put it out in the seventies when it first came out.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: Then in the documentary, they said that the, they put it, it was easy.

Track 2: He was like, when I went back to recut it, it's 2000, you know,

Track 2: it was super easy to edit the wires out.

Track 1: I don't think that that scene with her going backwards down the stairs makes

Track 1: sense that early in the movie. I think it's better that you don't see how crazy

Track 1: she is until a little bit later.

Track 1: Like it feels like a slower burn in a way than you seeing it, but that's just me.

Track 2: No. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying I think the only difference it made to me is

Track 2: that if I would have seen that I would have known oh she probably killed him

Track 2: because I didn't get it like up until that point the director just dies and

Track 2: we all we had seen her do was like shake the bed and pee herself a little you know so yeah.

Track 3: I think that made the connection for me too seeing her capability or like how severe she had gotten.

Track 2: Right so.

Track 3: Then it'd be believable that she had killed him.

Track 1: And I'll just throw in here too like the makeup of her face in the movie is

Track 1: fucking great like no cgi of.

Track 2: Course you.

Track 1: Know 1973 it just looks super believable

Track 1: and just really creeps you i think that's another thing about like in general

Track 1: body horror for a lot of people like is more effect you know effective than

Track 1: just like someone getting blown up or whatever and i think her face in the bed

Track 1: and like the vomit like the green on her yeah like her shirt and everything it's just really creepy.

Track 2: Yeah no i love no cgi i love

Track 2: how um how same just it's just everything just looks raw and i think that's

Track 2: what makes films like that back then scarier sure sometimes things look clearly

Track 2: fake but if you remember like the original like dawn of the dead like whenever

Track 2: they would stab someone like blood would squirt out like there was so much,

Track 2: it looked it really looked like people's arms were being cut off

Track 2: it really looked like she had those cuts on her faces because

Track 2: they had to like actually put stuff on her it wasn't like

Track 2: you know computer generated yeah plus i think the movie was passed very well

Track 2: like i think every single person in the cast looked like they were supposed

Track 2: to look like uh chris mcneil looked like an actor she looked like a really good

Track 2: actor that that looks famous and uh the oh my god father uh Yeah,

Track 2: Father Karras looks like a priest.

Track 2: No one has ever looked more like a priest.

Track 2: Especially like this. He just had this sadness.

Track 2: This is his first movie.

Track 3: Really?

Track 2: Oh, really?

Track 1: They purposely cast someone who had not been in anything because they were worried

Track 1: that if they had some known actor.

Track 3: Yeah, that people would recognize and not see them as that part. Yeah.

Track 1: Exactly. Which is, I think, why you're saying, Hugo, he looks like a priest

Track 1: because he's just some dude.

Track 3: Yeah. it's believable it's more believable because up.

Track 2: Until this point we've never seen anything other than a priest so like he's

Track 2: the priest yeah guess he's the priest.

Track 3: So my my husband's an editor he film editor so he edits and so when i watch

Track 3: movies that's the other thing that i also appreciate is like the editing at

Track 3: that time in the 70s and you know so as i'm watching the movie and to see the

Track 3: way they cut to make things,

Track 3: that was a whole other level of appreciation in watching that movie,

Track 3: seeing how it was cut at the time.

Track 3: They literally would physically cut film, which was fascinating to me. I can't even imagine.

Track 3: So it looked real, but then also the way they would cut the film to make it

Track 3: look real. That's a lot of work.

Track 1: It actually reminded me. So there are a bunch of scenes. this

Track 1: i think is in the documentary as well there are a bunch of scenes on

Track 1: the staircase like when people are running up and down or a

Track 1: few times and this is before the invention of

Track 1: like the steadicam which you could like move and it would not wobble but in

Track 1: this case like that didn't exist yet so they actually had people in like what

Track 1: was amounted to like a hanging seat that other people would then pull up and

Track 1: down the stairs so the person was in it holding the camera in this like i don't

Track 1: don't even know how to describe it.

Track 1: I don't know the terms, but he was in a seat being carried up and down the staircase

Track 1: while filming, so it wasn't while the camera wouldn't move as much.

Track 1: It's like, William Freakin is just a fucking lunatic, and he got what he wanted.

Track 2: I mean, it works, right? I think that's the point.

Track 2: That's why like some of these like directors are just like oh yeah like they

Track 2: were terrible but like they made the best films ever and you're just like you

Track 2: have to just live with the fact that they're bad people.

Track 1: Yeah forever and a funny thing

Track 1: the guy who filmed this movie also filmed the adams family movie from the 90s

Track 1: which i just think is funny oh it's it's there's no reason for that to actually

Track 1: matter like he filmed a lot of uh william freaking movies he did the french

Track 1: connection and this movie and a bunch of other ones but i'm trying to think

Track 1: if there's Some other like things about the movie that I was,

Track 1: so this is one thing that I saw and I don't really know much what to say about it.

Track 1: Some, some article I came across that this movie is like a reactionary film.

Track 1: And I don't know, like, do you think it's a reactionary film?

Track 1: Because it's sort of goes back to that kind of opening conversation about the,

Track 1: the time period being sort of after Watergate or around Watergate and all these things happening.

Track 1: And it's kind of like the response of like science can't fix anything.

Track 1: We have to like find something else. And so that like religion is the thing.

Track 1: So I don't know. I don't know if that makes it a reactionary film or not.

Track 2: I mean, I don't, I just, I, I think this brings me back that,

Track 2: that whole conversation brings me back to the idea that this film is some sort of a,

Track 2: plug for Catholicism. Not that the Catholic Church had anything to do with this,

Track 2: but I think when it really comes down to it, what are we saying?

Track 2: Throughout this film, I believed, like me personally, I am not a Catholic,

Track 2: but I truly believe that Father Karras and Father Marin are the only ones that

Track 2: can help Reagan. That is my belief.

Track 2: I truly believe in the power of the Catholic Church to solve this problem.

Track 2: And so, I mean, it could be reactionary as in, But no, no, no.

Track 2: I don't think it's – I don't know what I think about that.

Track 2: But I do think that like this does force people to like choose a side because

Track 2: the people that are going to watch the film are not Catholics.

Track 2: But everyone that is watching all these people watch the film and are reading

Track 2: the news that these people are going crazy are going like, oh my god, we need Jesus.

Track 2: Things are so bad. You know what I mean? We need to – and then the truth is

Track 2: that like we don't know – I think in the Bible – again, back to the Bible.

Track 2: A demon wouldn't do this.

Track 2: You know what I mean? The big reveal in the Bible about Satan is that his job

Track 2: is to make it so that no one knows he exists.

Track 2: Satan works mysteriously. He doesn't reveal himself by possessing some little

Track 2: girl and showing everyone his power.

Track 2: Instead satan like causes wars and famines and you know works through political

Track 2: through the government you know the the u.s government probably has a lot of

Track 2: people that are possessed,

Track 2: but little reagan doesn't have

Track 2: any power satan doesn't want anything to do with her bro you know so like i

Track 2: just feel like it's very um it just seems a little uh because remember the whole

Track 2: the whole reason he wrote this book is because he heard this story this story

Track 2: actually happened to someone in Washington, D.C., and he was going to school

Track 2: He was going to, he was in the university there and he heard that story and

Track 2: that's how he wrote the whole book.

Track 2: So it just feels very convenient, you know, that someone would be like,

Track 2: oh yeah, this little girl was possessed by a demon.

Track 2: And then we called from a Catholic church, you know, like that's where all of this comes from.

Track 2: Somebody said that like the Catholic church saved my possessed child.

Track 2: Um, and you know, anything can happen in this world. We really know very little.

Track 2: But I don't think a demon would possess a little girl.

Track 3: I think there's definitely messaging, right, in movies.

Track 3: And I think for people to question, like, was this, because we know that movies

Track 3: today definitely have, or at least modern movies today, there's messaging.

Track 3: There's either military message or some kind of propaganda happening.

Track 3: You know, I think movies, We know that movies are made to, you know,

Track 3: to to share a message for sure.

Track 3: I think, you know, after knowing that he wrote the book based on a story that

Track 3: he heard, I think it just happened to, you know, they just happened to make it during these times.

Track 3: But I think people questioning, like, does the CIA have anything to do with,

Track 3: you know, the making of any kind of movie to share a message or to get people to think a certain way?

Track 3: I definitely do believe that politics can, you know, that the government can

Track 3: use movies to influence people.

Track 3: But this Exorcist movie, I don't feel like it was that or had any kind of purpose, but just...

Track 3: Sharing a story and it just happened to happen during this time.

Track 3: But I don't know. I think there's also just to add like the beginning because

Track 3: of the times right now with what's happening in Palestine and watching the beginning

Track 3: of the movie and seeing the kafiyas,

Track 3: like everything reminds me of Palestine at the moment.

Track 3: So even as I was watching the opening in Iraq and then wearing their kafiyahs

Track 3: was like, you know, I liked it.

Track 3: I like seeing the representation. But then at the same time,

Track 3: I also wondered, like, was this intentional?

Track 3: Like, did they purposely use a demon from Iraq to possess this child,

Track 3: right? So there's also that.

Track 3: Was that a type of messaging to demonize a culture or a country,

Track 3: a setting? Stuff like that.

Track 3: So I don't know. That could be a whole other thing.

Track 3: There's a messaging within that too.

Track 1: So this is something I actually forgot to bring to before, but this is a perfect thing.

Track 1: So I think I agree with what you said. I think that in this movie,

Track 1: the time period it was made influenced the movie in ways that was probably unintentional,

Track 1: like just all the things happening at the time.

Track 1: But the thing about Iraq and demonizing a place there, there's a moment when

Track 1: the doctors are like all in the room.

Track 1: There's like 10 doctors in the room and they're like finally bringing up the

Track 1: exorcism idea. And they specifically say, oh, there is this thing that they

Track 1: do in backwards cultures where they do these things.

Track 1: So it's very clear that this is something that only uncivilized,

Track 1: in quotation marks, people would do.

Track 1: I think that's the message that they're bringing. And then that's why,

Track 1: in some ways, it doesn't look great for Catholicism to refute your entire argument,

Track 1: Hugo. Not really. Not exactly.

Track 1: But just I think that the way that they're portraying exorcism in the scientific

Track 1: community is this is for loony tune, weird people who live in Iraq or Africa,

Track 1: the third world, what they would call the third world, the global south.

Track 1: And it's not necessarily like this could just be

Track 1: their beliefs like they don't this is this is their religion

Track 1: it's it shouldn't be you know used as a way to

Track 1: demonize and term them as something else i think using iraq probably was slightly

Track 1: unintentional but it fit like the later way to demonize demonize demonize this

Track 1: uh this thing here so i don't know yeah.

Track 3: Or that it took a catholic priest to do this.

Track 1: On a.

Track 3: You know, demon that came from Iraq. Right.

Track 3: So that could be another messaging there of like our religion,

Track 3: you know, well, our Catholic, you know, religion cured this demon from Iraq.

Track 1: So I kind of can't believe that the Catholic church like went along with this.

Track 1: Like father Dyer is actually a priest.

Track 2: Oh, wow. That's crazy.

Track 1: Isn't that insane?

Track 2: But I mean, the Catholic church has done.

Track 1: What no i.

Track 2: Don't know if you've heard but uh they're kind of kooky and.

Track 1: Did they do some crusades maybe or had a few yeah yeah.

Track 2: And also recently they've done some other stuff for like the last 40 50 years that that we.

Track 1: Know 100 years did you say that's.

Track 2: That too yeah.

Track 1: Yeah no and so actually i'll just add one note about the iraq thing apparently

Track 1: when they filmed it in iraq which as they actually did film there,

Track 1: the US government had no diplomatic ties with Iraq.

Track 1: And so the studio who made the movie, which in this case was Warner Brothers,

Track 1: negotiated with the Iraqi government to use Iraqi crew and Iraqi actors.

Track 1: So all the other actors except for Mirren were them.

Track 2: In the book, I will say this. I don't know if it was planned or whatever,

Track 2: but in the book, it does open in bags yeah oh weird right so the answer was

Track 2: to shut it off and turn it on again like that's the answer to every can we unplug the u.s.

Track 1: And plug it back in.

Track 3: Yeah keep him unplugged don't plug him back in.

Track 2: Yeah he just needs a hard reset what.

Track 1: Were you saying you go.

Track 2: Um oh no i was just saying that it does open the actual book does open in like...

Track 2: Hold on. I didn't just reread it right now, but I'm pretty sure it says something about Baghdad.

Track 2: So I'm pretty sure, yeah, it says something about Baghdad and Kirkuk in the

Track 2: fiery furnace of Nebuchadnezzar.

Track 2: So it does open there. So he did it before he even knew this was going to be

Track 2: a film, unless he was already planning for it to be a film.

Track 1: Well, I mean, he was a screenwriter, like he wrote screenplays.

Track 1: I'm guessing he probably wrote this hoping it would be a film.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: Yeah. So that's true. But I also think like Iraq, I believe that people will

Track 2: demonize Middle Eastern countries, obviously.

Track 2: But I do feel like that the Middle East is the birthplace of civilization.

Track 2: So a lot of these statues, a lot of these dig sites are in those places.

Track 2: Not to say that the demon is Iraqi. It's just to say that this is where everything

Track 2: is, you know, like Jesus was from Palestine, you know.

Track 2: So like everyone's from there. so I don't I feel

Track 2: like it's not I feel like it's more based biblically like

Track 2: he's looking at the Bible and like that's where the birthplace of God is that's

Track 2: where you know Satan tried to tempt Jesus in the desert you know with a bunch

Track 2: of stuff with a bunch of gold and like you know that all happened there around

Track 2: Iraq so that's why I think it's there that makes sense.

Track 1: Yeah that's a less negative yeah.

Track 2: I think you're right I.

Track 1: Think you would see Iraq and like, you know, I mean, that's where they use, you know, um,

Track 1: where does uh like indiana jones on the last crusade don't they go to iraq or,

Track 1: jordan or something i don't remember what do you remember.

Track 2: All but yes it's definitely a middle eastern country when like the guy with

Track 2: the whip and then he just shoots him like that's all happening there yeah oh

Track 2: man great film i gotta really play.

Track 1: Full they film.

Track 2: It in jordan.

Track 1: I think i don't know where it was supposed to be maybe it was i don't know i

Track 1: this is the inevitability.

Track 2: I always start talking.

Track 1: About some other movie like near the end i'm like.

Track 2: Have you ever done indiana joe no.

Track 1: Actually i was just thinking about that that would be interesting.

Track 2: You know maybe if you want to we could collaborate i don't know some uh i haven't

Track 2: watched it in years but i used to love it as a kid oh.

Track 1: My god i loved indiana joe's when i was like seven

Track 1: years old it was like one of my favorite movies uh but yeah so i don't know

Track 1: any were there any last like things on the movie we didn't talk about i guess

Track 1: i already kind of said the my most disgusting part or anything else but i don't

Track 1: know if you had any last uh final final thoughts on the exorcist.

Track 2: I do you want me to go yeah you go you want to say something priscilla

Track 2: i was just gonna say yeah no the

Track 2: i think the the scene that messes that

Track 2: messed me up the most are the shots of the

Track 2: demon of pazuzu like with the black screen and just

Track 2: that those are the scenes that pop up in my head that scare

Track 2: me at night but the hardest scene to watch was the

Track 2: one where reagan is using a crucifix on

Track 2: herself uh that's the idea of like

Track 2: that just a little girl like it just that whole

Track 2: scene just like shocks me to my core um but

Track 2: also but you know to get away from that and just get to

Track 2: the ending i just feel like it the whole film is about um pazuzu getting what

Track 2: he wants and what he wants is to kill father Marin and that's what he does and

Track 2: then um and then I'm always a little confused I guess at the end but it seems

Track 2: like what happens is that,

Track 2: somehow Karis convinces Pazuzu to possess him and then he kills he tries to

Track 2: kill himself by jumping out of the window is that what we're he's sacrificing himself okay,

Track 2: got it got it because like you see it in his eye.

Track 3: Yeah i was i was wondering is it that yeah did

Track 3: he did he do that or did they make him do that i was i i didn't know maybe in

Track 3: the book does it say that that he did it out of his own will he sacrificed himself

Track 3: or did the demon make him jump You know.

Track 1: I don't, if I had to guess, I would say he's jumping himself.

Track 2: That's what I think.

Track 1: But it's also left ambiguous because you know that the demon threw the director out the window earlier.

Track 3: Right.

Track 1: It was easily he could be trying to kill him. But then if he kills him,

Track 1: that is a demon like dead too.

Track 3: Right. That was what I was wondering too, was, did that mean that the demon

Track 3: died with him? I don't know.

Track 1: Yeah this is a moment where i will say that everyone should see exorcist 3 for

Track 1: that very reason because i already kind of like spoiled that he's in that movie

Track 1: as well so like yeah it's uh all right well.

Track 3: That's that's the homework that's what i'm gonna do.

Track 1: It's really good like it's one of those things where i had seen the second one

Track 1: like years ago i'm like man this is one of the worst movies i've ever seen like the second one so.

Track 3: I could skip the second and go straight to the third.

Track 1: Yeah yeah so like even even like it's funny there's an interview with william

Track 1: freaking where he's like mentions the third one and saying how he

Track 1: really likes it and he thought the second one like he's like that's not even

Track 1: a movie or something like that he just he's like just ignore that

Track 1: you know i they wanted me to do something with it and i said fuck no but yeah

Track 1: they ignore the second one as the plot of the third one unfolds so the third

Track 1: one i think is 10 years later later and there's i think it starts off by like

Track 1: being like some kind of weird ritualistic murder which in a way almost fits the first one,

Track 1: because isn't that one of the things that happens early is like the church is desecrated?

Track 1: And so like there's some connection.

Track 2: There are people vandalized.

Track 1: And it's the same detective who's doing the, the case from the first.

Track 3: Okay.

Track 1: So those are the two repeat characters.

Track 2: The book ends the exact same way. It's very unclear.

Track 2: Just screens. Come on, come on, loser. Try me, leave the girl and take me.

Track 2: The next instant, Karras's upper body jerk sharply upright with his head bent

Track 2: back facing up to the ceiling.

Track 2: And he never even says anything anymore. He just says no. and

Track 2: then he throws himself out the window so it's like it doesn't

Track 2: the book is very similar to the book

Track 2: is very similar to the film because it's also kind of written like

Track 2: a documentary like normal novels like are kind of i feel like normal i guess

Track 2: i i can't remember because i haven't read i need to reread it again but like

Track 2: normal novels like tell us what the characters maybe more details and i feel

Track 2: like this book is just yeah the book is just saying what happened like Like, Karis said this,

Track 2: then he jerked his body up, and then, you know, blah, blah, blah,

Track 2: and then, no! And then he jumps out the window.

Track 2: So, that's exactly the same. It's, like, play-by-play.

Track 1: That's why I feel like his writing style isn't exactly that great,

Track 1: and I think he's writing them, like, as a movie. You know, this is a...

Track 3: Or make it into a movie. Yeah. I would say that...

Track 2: That's what that last part... What I just read, that's what it sounds like.

Track 3: Yeah, I would say that when I watched it the first time, that's what I thought.

Track 3: I thought the way I interpreted it was that he sacrificed himself and saved her.

Track 3: And that's how I saw it. But then later I questioned like, and because you don't

Track 3: know and they don't tell you, but I feel like the film made it look that way.

Track 3: Like he would, he saved her, but I don't know. We'd have to ask him.

Track 1: So just as an aside, there actually is a new exorcist movie coming out in 2026 from Blumhouse.

Track 1: And apparently it's a reboot so i don't know if that means it's like redoing

Track 1: the original story or if it's a sequel there's no like information yet but seems

Track 1: cool and you know i will probably see it i.

Track 2: Couldn't even finish true believer.

Track 1: Oh yeah i.

Track 2: Haven't finished it i started it we watched the first like 30 minutes 35 minutes and i was like this is.

Track 1: Dumb and i just the new one's going to be directed by mike flanagan you know

Track 1: who that is he did uh doctor sleep and hush and i don't know what else okay

Track 1: he might have done the movie about ouija boards which okay it was good but actually i don't know ouija.

Track 2: Ouija was okay.

Track 1: I haven't seen that one but um yeah i don't think i have any other movie or

Track 1: any exorcist notes but i guess before we go i'll put links to your feel i'll

Track 1: feel free to cut this because i was we were kind of joking how it's always awkward

Track 1: but is there anything uh any place that we can find you or if you're anything you're,

Track 1: both working on, I'll put your Instagram handles and, you know,

Track 1: your other things in the notes.

Track 1: But before we sign off, anything for the listing audience?

Track 2: Yeah, my name is Hugo, and you can find me on TikTok and Instagram at Seize the Mean Shirts.

Track 2: You can click my link tree to get access to my Etsy with all the t-shirt designs

Track 2: available at Seize the Mean Shirts.

Track 2: Seize the Mean Shirts, everyday shirts for the everyday leftists.

Track 1: I should throw that in the middle of the episode as like a little commercial.

Track 3: A little ad. That's a perfect ad. Commercial.

Track 1: See, I would allow that ad. That's the only ad I would allow.

Track 3: No, that's awesome. And I love your shirts, by the way. I have one and I love

Track 3: it. So my name is Priscilla Luna.

Track 3: I'm in Los Angeles, California. I'm also on Instagram at Priscilla Luna underscore underscore. score.

Track 3: Um, but, uh, let's see what else. Yeah. I also have, um, a online business at

Track 3: calaveraware.com t-shirts, hats, beanie sweaters, all that fun stuff.

Track 3: Um, but yeah, I'm just really, I love this, this time we had together to talk and chat. This is cool.

Track 1: Absolutely. Yeah. It was a great, uh, I thought it was a good discussion and

Track 1: yeah, I'll put links to those sites there.

Track 1: And this is, I'm going to cut this, but did you know that there's another website

Track 1: called SeizeTheMeans.com, which is like also sell shirts, but it's not you?

Track 2: What?

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: I did not look that up.

Track 1: All of the shirts are sold.

Track 3: I said it's also Calavera clothing out there. Calavera is so...

Track 2: I was also going to say, SeizeTheMeans shirts endorses Calavera wear officially.

Track 2: Calavera wear. Chinga la migra.

Track 1: I thought you were going to say who's going to endorse a candidate for,

Track 1: I thought you were going to say that.

Track 3: Oh, no.

Track 2: Well, I listened to, uh, Sepultura, which is, I think I told you this.

Track 2: They're, they're, they're, wait, you're Cavalera or Calavera.

Track 3: Which means skull Calavera, C-A-R-A.

Track 2: Calavera. So they are the Cavalera brothers. Oh, so I have, I have Cavalera.

Track 2: I have like a Cavalera shirt, like Cavalera conspiracy.

Track 1: Right.

Track 2: Yeah, Cavalera. That's their actual...

Track 2: No, it's their actual last name. It's not like a thing about skulls.

Track 2: That's why I always get them confused.

Track 3: Yeah, I know. I was looking at trademarks and all that, and I'm sure Calavera

Track 3: clothing is... I mean, if someone really wanted to make, you know, say something about it.

Track 3: But yeah, that's interesting. See what it means. Yeah, too.

Track 1: Well, thank you, everyone, for listening, and we will catch you next time.