So. Hey, guys.

Hey.

Hey. Hey.

How we feeling?

I'm feeling good.

Excellent.

I'm all right.

Okay. I'm feeling stuffed up, I'm gonna tell you that. Well, weird allergies happening now.

I mean, my eyes are on fire. Oh. But.

Okay.

Yeah, other than that. But that's normal for me. I always.

We're just bypassing normal pains and aches and all the stuff. Yeah. Okay. So should we talk about gall? Speaking of aches and pains and all the things.

Not me first.

Not you first. Did you forget? You're gone? Okay, well, I. Can I.

It'll be a surprise for all of us, including you.

Oh, my God.

Okay. Did you remember it yet? No. No.

I have to. Not when I concentrate too hard on it, it won't. Oh, God.

I've read.

That's so embarrassing.

Okay, well, I can go first, then. Okay. So my golf sort of has to do with allergies and stuff, but it's the pressure to go out and play because. Because it is getting to be nice weather now. And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, this is no surprise to anyone, but I was an indoor kid, and I spent many a summer vacation reading. Just books inside, looking outside. Don't want to go out there. But my parents would always say, you know, go out, go play. Go do your thing. And I'm like, I don't even.

What.

What is playing? Like, how do. How does one play? What am I supposed to do outside besides just sit and get hot and be miserable and have bugs? And I'm gonna tell you, nothing has changed. I feel the exact same way about the outside. And that. The gall. The gall then, is that their voice is still in my head. Anytime the weather turns, I start feeling like, oh, man, I should go outside. I should go outside and play. And I don't know what. What that is.

It is funny that there's this undue pressure you're feeling like, I gotta go toss a Frisbee around.

Yes. Or even just, you know, I have a nice patio. I have a catio. And I'm like, I should. I should go out there and do something, but I have no idea what to do. And immediately, if I go out there and I'm reading a book, I'm uncomfortable. I hate it. So I stay inside, and then I feel guilty. So this time of year, I can just kiss my ass. I don't know who I'm trying to impress at this point, but someone in my brain keeps telling me to go outside and play. And I say, fuck You. So in conclusion, I will stay inside. And that is. Yeah, Yeah.

I remember as a kid, like, being at my grandmother's house during the day. Like, she sort of babysat us. And I remember by the afternoon, she'd be like, you should go outside and do something. Cause I'd spend all morning watching the Price is Right and game shows. And then you have lunch. And then I'd watch Days of Our Lives because the Salem strangler was on, and I want to know who. They were gonna kill us.

Oh, my God, of course.

And it was always like, go outside. And it's like, yeah. Why? I've been inside all day. I've been doing all right.

Yeah.

I was very lucky to have all grandmas that were inside people, so they would never, like, go outside. They're like, do you want another Fig Newton while we watch the next program? And I'm like, yes, I do. I sure do.

And this is how much I hated it, like, both of my grandmas that I hung out the most with hardcore smokers. And I would have much rather stayed inside and ingested all of that and just lived in that haze than go outside. It's dumb out there.

Well, nothing's really changed since we were kids as far as outside goes. So if anything's necessarily.

If anything's changed, it's hotter and there's more bugs and more things that can kill us. So, no. I say, no, I'm gonna stay inside and play.

What would the world be if we were all outside people?

It'd be miserable. And also, if you go on a dating app, everyone talks about, I'm an outside person. I love the water. I love the lake. Well, no, thank you.

That's all lies. That's. Who's putting. Who loves it that much. That. That's like, an important piece of information.

Almost every heterosexual man in the world, apparently, that is on. Yeah, I know. Once you get into the girls, which, of course, I'm bi. So I look at both the girls. They are more realists. They talk about things that are actually important and things that are of interest. The guys most are just trash. And they're showing pictures of dead fish and dead animals, talk about how much they love to go out on boats. None of this. None of this is making me horny. None of.

So it sounds like you're going to murder me off a boat.

Exactly. Exactly. If I go outside, I could get murdered.

Yeah.

If I stay inside, I could die from falling down the stairs, but at least I won't be murdered.

At least it's of my own will.

Yes.

I mean, or my own klutziness, however you want to look at it. But I didn't get taken out on a boat and thrown over.

I didn't get tricked into going outside and playing.

So you're not up for our annual Jarts tournament?

Can we do it in my attic?

You can stay on the porch and just throw your jarts on the porch.

There you go.

I could do that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Did you remember yours?

I did.

Okay.

Mine is actually. It's the unmitigated gall of programming. Oh, let me explain.

Okay, Let me explain.

I think we got it done.

Understood.

Understood. Okay. Mike and I look forward to Friday night. That we get a couple new murder shows in Dateline and 20 20. Both air on Friday night. And that's no matter what else we have going on on Friday night. That's like our wind down time. Once we get into bed, we watch a little bit of the murder, and then it takes us a few nights because we invariably fall asleep. So my unmitigated call is, who the fuck isn't communicating between Dateline and 2020? Because this has happened now more than once. I'm leaning towards five times where the story is the exact same in both episodes. And it was one.

Well, they're covering the same murder.

Exactly.

And not from different angles or anything.

Sure. But like, you know the story, so it's like, very. A lot less interesting. And it was one that we had already seen before on like a 48 hours, so we already knew the story. So we go to the first one. Boom. We're like, oh, we know this guy. And then we're like, okay, well, we'll just watch the 20 20. We go. And I'm like, are you kidding me? How on the same night are you doing the same program? Are you competing head to head for something? Like, why is this happening? And I just think a simple email back and forth would solve all these problems for me. Mike's theory is that there's a mole at Dateline.

Oh.

And that they're feeding the stories to 2020 so they can go head to head and see who did it better.

Interesting.

But I was like, that's a lot of people. That would be, I mean, I would assume a production calendar. There's some similarities. And when you're interviewing people and cutting things together, and I'm like, yeah.

Like when you're out in the field, like, talking to people, like, somebody would mention, like, by the way, Dateline was here, like yesterday afternoon.

Yeah, yeah. Like not that long ago.

Right.

So it's just a disappointment. And it's happened a few. If it was. It was a one off. At first I thought, wow, that's weird. Like how it was almost like a cool. Anomaly.

Anomaly. Anomaly. You got it. You got it.

Anomaly in Paris.

That. But then what happened again, and then again, and now again. I don't like it.

You can't be the only one upset because, you know, there's a lot of people that like their murders. They do.

And a lot of people watch all three of those programs, and I'm not. I. I've lost all shame in admitting that. So I don't feel bad about it. And I want something different on both programs. I'm sorry. I want. I sound like my grand. I want my programs. Right.

I want my stories.

Yeah. I want to come and do me right.

All right, Heath, what's your unmitigated go.

I was actually. I was gonna. My unmitigated gall was gonna be these motherfucking birds.

Oh, okay.

Because there's birds in the tree outside my bedroom. They're loud. But I think. I think after additional reflection, I think it's gonna be prom. Oh, not prom in general because, like, my niece is going to prom this week, so, I mean, she's looking forward to it. I think. I live downtown and the whole. And Aaron, you know, had to experience this, the whole thing before prom where the whole family goes to a new location to take a bunch of photos.

Which was never a thing for us. Right? Like, I mean, maybe like one at the house, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, maybe some people did, but it wasn't as well trod territory as it is now, right?

Yeah, but yeah, like every. The last. Yesterday was like the third Saturday in a row where. Just downtown at late afternoon on a Saturday, early evening. It's just the streets are just clogged with people's parents trying to get prom photos.

Are they trying to get it like on the bridge right across from.

There are some there. The World Food Prize is not super far from where we live. And they have a really nice garden that looks, you know, looks good all the time. Looks especially good in the springtime. And so there's lots of people there. And that's fine. Take your pictures. Get out of the fucking streets. Because like yesterday we drove by that and there were three different adult men just in the middle of the street, not paying attention to what's going on, trying to get photos and just looking. And it's like last week I was driving by It. And these people stopped in the street because they saw someone else they knew who was taking pictures of their kids and were waving, hey, how are you?

And it's like the suburbs, right?

Just, if you want to talk to them, great. Find a place to park your car and get out and go talk to them.

It's actually the. It's the worst. Like, as someone who's now on my third child going through prom, I've been to a lot of. I've been to the Sculpture Garden. I've been to Waterworks. I've been to some random parks, and every single one. Yeah, it's the same. Why? Why, though? But also, why. Why are we doing this? We already got the pictures and the dresses. I mean, at some point, I have all these pictures on my camera wall, and what am I going to do with all your prom pictures? Someday when you're older and you're married to someone else, like, you know what I mean?

Hey, remember when you dated this?

Yeah.

I was going to say. I was like, that's outdated. No, was good. Yeah.

I mean, except for my oldest child, who did marry the person.

Yeah. Yeah. But she's not a skank or a child.

She's the only, like, person, you know not to say anything about Evan or whatever. But. Yeah, it's a. It's a weird thing. And they coordinate, and they're like, we gotta go here. Then the worst is when they say, we're gonna go to multiple places. No, you get one extra location. In my opinion. Opinion. You don't get to go to multiple locations.

And do you find it's mostly the parents driving this, not the kids?

I think it's. I. I don't like to gender things, but I think it's mostly the females.

The. The girls getting.

They want a second location. They want some better shots. They want something different.

Yeah.

And I know there. There are hotels downtown like, that have signs in the lobby that say, you can't take prom pictures here. Because it had gotten to be so bad. There were so many people in there, and just. It was causing problems for the guests. And so now they're just like, Nah.

I remember, like, before prom, my parent or my mom, like, trying to take pictures of us in our house.

Yeah.

And even that, I was like, I hate every single thing about this. I just take the picture and let us go.

I'm gonna tell you something that you would hate so much.

Okay.

It would have completely prevented you from going to prom.

Okay.

Because I went to a small Catholic high school for some reason. There's a tradition called promenade where after you get with your date, you literally have to line up in the gym. And they say, the two people that are going prom together, you walk out on the stage, you have to walk down like a carpet to, like, all the parents are in the gym.

What?

And there's like a picture taken at the end of the thing. And then.

But what about. What if you decide to go to prom with, like, just your friends or.

Yeah, you don't walk in promenade, then.

Oh, no, that seems not like the right thing to do, right?

Correct.

Yeah. I mean, all of that seems, like, not the right thing to do. Like, why are we putting this much pressure on teenage relationships? Who.

They didn't do it when I was in high school, but they do now at my old high school where all. Every parents, they go take the pictures, but they all show up at high school and watch people get out of the car and walk in. And I'm always just like, do you not have anything else to do? Like just your kids out of the house, like, you know, go out to dinner?

Just, you know, I have a free night. Like, I want to go do something. I want to go eat. Yeah. I don't. This is too much time.

Oh, it makes me sick just thinking about it all.

But I will say good luck to all of the servers out there. Wait on kids going to prom who'll get, like a Sprite and some French fries and then leave a 10 cent tip.

Well, yeah, that's some good call. Okay, so recap from our last episode. I'm first gonna go out on a limb and say it was a killer episode. We talked about a lot of things, a lot of good things. I talked about behind the Music. VH1.

Love it.

I talked about the McCoy septuplets.

Wild.

Yeah.

And curry.

Yeah. That was not the main thrust of the story. In my mind. It was the seven babies coming out of one lady. But, yeah, like a fucking clown car. I think he said at one point.

Saw a clip online the other day of Joan Rivers, like, back a long time ago when she was guest hosting the Tonight show and she was talking to somebody in the audience, she's like, oh, what's your name? And the woman's like, you know, Carol. And she's like, oh, you know, tell me about yourself. And she's like, oh, I have six kids. Chuck Rivers. So quick. Was like, did you have them in litter or one by one litter? And she just. It was so fast. The way she set it back was very funny.

Yeah, gross. Also gross was Fen Phen the. It was. This was the year when this was the year came out. And then whoops, later on. Holes in your heart. So that was a bummer.

Whoops.

Whoops.

Sorry about that.

Erin, you introduced us to football Jail at Philadelphia Eagles football court.

It tracks, doesn't it?

Yes. You talked about the Versace murder.

When you said football court, I was gonna be like, no, it's a field, but I'm in court of law. It's a basketball court.

I just don't know my sports. And you also talked about Tamagotchi pet pets.

Yeah.

Which I didn't know was basically just murdering the electronic pets. It was very weird. Okay. Heath, you brought us two volcano movies with just some really delightful plot points. In those movies, Volcano and Dante's Peak.

They could have benefited like 2020 and Dateline by some communication.

They were coming out of the same ground.

You also talked about some failed must see TV shows.

Oh, yeah, there's a lot of them.

There's a lot of them. There's a lot of ones in that. Oh, my gosh.

And then you talked about the dual versions of How Do I Live.

Oh, yeah.

Again, a 14 year old singing about how do I Live, how do I live?

More feeling, Leanne.

Really feel it, teenager.

We're gonna do another take and act like you've lost something really important.

My husband's father used to tell this story about when he would. He was at a talent show or something like that. And when my husband was in high school and there was like an 11 year old singing Save the Best for Last and he just thought it was very funny that like a fifth grader is singing that song and it's like, well, you know, hopefully you got some stuff ahead of you, ma'am.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you're already there.

Yikes. That just feels like a world weary viewpoint of singing that. That feels like something you would do.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

It sure does.

Since you were middle aged in high school. Yeah.

Were you ever in a talent show?

No.

That felt like an important follow up question.

I think we used to have to do skits for like homecoming. Like each class would have to do a skit and so I was in one or two of those.

Did you ever play any instruments or anything?

I played the trumpet.

So did I. Nice. Yeah. Well, I remember absolutely nothing. Do you remember anything?

It took me years to figure out the tongue thing where you had to put the tongue like battalion behind your top teeth. Like, I didn't like. It took me a Long time to figure that out.

Tongue action.

Yeah. And I played. I played until I was a sophomore in high school. And the only reason I did is because we were going to Disney World to march.

Oh, nice.

And we had known that a couple years ahead of time, and had we not been doing that, I would probably not have played in high school.

Way to use the system. I like that. Yeah.

This is just a side note. The fifth graders in Norwalk have to do this wax museum project every year where they have to, like, they get to pick a figure that they think is important, and then they put a whole trifold presentation. Then they have to dress up like that figure, and you get to go around and hear their little presentation. So Mason picked Louis Armstrong because he felt like he was the most influential trumpet player.

Okay.

My son took it to another degree and said, comes home and says, I got to add a special section to my trifold. And, you know, I said, what? What do you mean? And he said, well, I asked the teacher if we could do fun facts, and we could add a section of fun facts. And I said, oh, what's your fun fact? Louis Armstrong went to jail when he was 11. Cause he shot a gun. And I was like, that's what you put on your presentation? He's like, yeah. She was kind of surprised, too. But then she said, anyone else could put fun facts, too?

It's very fun.

I did. That is fun. That's a fun fact.

Fun fact. Yeah. And came out with it so fast.

We were like, okay, Your son is a treasure. He's an absolute treasure.

He's he. And then not 20 minutes later, said, do I have a suit? No. What?

I have suit. Like, you've just been hiding a suit?

Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, I do.

Yeah, of course. So I'll go first for 1997. And this was the year that Buffy the Vampire Slayer premiered. And I got to admit, I did not watch it when it first came out. It was only a few years later when I moved to Chicago and I became friends with a super fan named Amy. And we watched Buffy every week.

She's looking like your alter ego. Just, like. Did you have a mental split?

She's real. Okay. I could text her right now just to show you.

She has two cell phones.

You'll hear the ping in the other. See? Anyway, we'll just leave that for listeners to puzzle over and see if that's real or not. So, anyway, Buffy the Vampire Slayer debuted in March 1997, followed Buffy, who's a high school student, who also happens to be the Slayer. The one girl in all the world chosen to fight back the vampires, the demons, the. All the bad. All the bad stuff. The monsters. But she also just wants to go to prom. She wants to get her picture taken at the hotels in downtown Des Moines.

Yeah.

And maybe not die in the process. So this was created by Joss Whedon, and he had originally created a movie in 1992, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, with Christy Swanson, Luke Perry, Paul Rubens. Oh, that's right. Yeah, Paul Rubens. And it was very sort of campy. It was fun. Like, I really enjoyed it when it came out, but apparently it was not what Joss had envisioned when he created it. He wanted it to be a little darker. It just wasn't quite his tone that he looked for.

Okay.

So he decided to make it into a show and made it a little bit, you know, like I said, darker, a little bit deeper. More horror and drama together, but lots of comedy at the same time. And so the first season, you know, it kind of took a little bit to get going. But then by season two, three, four, like, it was a critical hit. It was never a big, very popular hit. It became a cult classic later on. Never got, like, Emmy recognition or anything like that because, you know, no one loves the sci fi. After five seasons on the wb, the WB was suddenly like, no, no more. So they moved to upn, which was a huge deal at the time, because UPN was new and UPN became cw.

Oh, okay. Because I was like, I do not remember UPN at all.

Cw, yeah, WB came one network. Cw.

Okay.

But, yeah, this was the time when the WB was doing lots of, like, Dawson's Creek, the Vampire Slayer, like a bunch of teen shows like that. Some. Oh, and by the way, when they moved over to UPN, because apparently no one knew where UPN was, and they were like, we can get away with anything. Got dark. It got real dark in season six and Stevens, season seven. But some types of storylines, okay, Buffy is a vampire slayer, but she falls in love with a vampire named Angel. And the first time they have sex, Angel. See, angel has a soul, so he's a good vampire. Oh, the first time they have sex, she sucks that soul right out of him and he becomes a bad.

Pardon me.

Another great storyline was there's supposed to only be one slayer in the world, right? But Buffy died for a few minutes. So another slayer got activated, and that was Faith Eliza Doucheku. And she was kind of a bad slayer. So it was Slayer, get slayer.

Oh, no, it's awesome.

Yeah.

Just a real quick backtrack.

Yeah.

Just died for a few minutes.

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah. And then she came back to life.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Like, with medical intervention or just, like.

Someone gave her cpr.

Oh.

Unfortunately, it was not her boyfriend, angel, because he has no breath. So it had to be her best friend who actually had a crush on her, Xander. So he got to make out with her and bring her back to life. Yeah.

Xander, that's not a makeup.

Yeah, no, it seems like there was no consent.

Nope. No consent at all. Also, Willow was the nerdy sidekick for a while, but then she went on to become a power lesbian and a witch.

Oh, wow. Good for her.

And it was a big, big deal when they had a kiss on. On screen. But, of course, it was one of the trailblazers of the kill your gays trope, where poor, poor Tara got killed off and then Willow went real bad. So. Excellent show. Loved the show. Like I said, I only got into it a few seasons in, but as soon as I started watching it, I got obsessed. So I would go home. It was airing on, like, TNT or TBS or something like that. So I would record all the old episodes on vhs, come home, watch a couple episodes at night, catch up. It was great. For a while, I was a real big Joss Whedon fan. Then guess what? He turned out to be a creep.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

So in 2021, Charisma Carpenter, who played Cordelia, accused him of abusive and toxic behavior on Buffy and the spin off angel, including body shaming her during her pregnancy and retaliating against her. One of the other stars, Michelle Trachtenberg, who recently died, said a rule was put in place that Weeden was not allowed to be alone with her. Sarah Michelle Geller, who is the star, she's said kind of vague things. She's never really gone on record and said that he's a creep, but you can kind of infer from there.

Well, stand up better. Sarah Michelle Geller.

Yeah. Yeah. He also, at one point got jealous, apparently, of the guy that played Spike, who was another vampire who eventually got a soul. They had a really. Buffy and Spike had a very interesting, sometimes violent relationship. It was hot, as though. So at one point, Spike was becoming a fan favorite, and apparently Joss Whedon, like, threw him up against the wall. Said, you're not gonna be the big star you think you are. Like, he was. It was so random, this weird story, but it sounds kind of right. Anyway, the show was. It was shot on a budget. You can tell A lot of it. The beginning, the first few episodes, especially, like, some of the cg, real bad. It feels like it's puppet stuff happening.

Like it's real.

It's real bad.

Puppet stuff is hot.

But we didn't care like it. And it got better over time. And the story lines just. It got into all sorts of. Ultimately, it was a metaphor, right, of like, you know, going through teen years and everything and then into college and then, you know, she faces death all the time. But at one point her mom died and it was this whole.

Yeah, yeah.

Just a fantastic show. Too bad it was led by a creep. But pretty much everything we're learning that has been good in our lives has been led by creeps. So there's that.

Now I have that TLC creep song in my head. Thanks.

Yeah. Just creeping on the download.

Oh, good. Do all the parts.

Oh, you're up.

All right, I'm up. In 1997, Special Group broke through on the music scene, and we've gotten a lot of things from it, let me just tell you. And that group is Destiny's Child. Oh. It's an American musical girl group whose final lineup comprised Beyonce Knowles, Kelly Rowland, and Michelle Williams. And when I tell you that I was obsessed with Destiny's Child, it was next level.

Oh, okay.

I knew all the B side songs. I knew everything. Loved them so much. So much. They actually began their musical career as girls. Time. Time spelled with a y. Formed in 1990 in Houston. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't get it.

I don't either.

All right, maybe because maybe there's a Y in Beyonce. I don't know.

Oh, it was already a nod. Well, there's a wine. Kelly Rowland, too, but not Michelle Williams.

Well, I mean, but she wasn't there at the beginning either.

True, true. Yeah. So maybe that is why they did the. Why.

You're listening to science, everybody.

Okay.

Yeah. We're using clues and facts and evidence to figure things out.

Yeah.

Our own 2020 episode. Really drill down here.

You know what? I'll go ahead and make that my goal before we record again. To find out why they chose Time. Okay. After years of limited success, the original quartet comprising Knowles, Roland Latavia Roberson and Latoya Luckett, were signed in 1997 to Columbia Records as Destiny's Child. And they were launched into mainstream recognition following the release of the song no, no, no. Their best selling second album, the Writings on the Wall, which was also my favorite, contained the number one singles Bills, Bills, Bills, Bills. I'm Trying to say this really like, enunciated because otherwise I will start singing. Oh, say my name, say my name, say my name if no one is.

Around you say baby, I love you.

Alongside successful singles such as Bugaboo, also a great jam.

What I love about Bugaboo, though, is the references in the lyrics are, you know, you know, when it came out. Because it's talking about like cutting aol.

Yes.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's a very. Yeah, it really places talking about getting.

Pages and your beeper and stuff like that.

Yeah, I like that, though. When you can pinpoint when a thing.

Was made, it felt right. And also Jumpin, Jumpin, which was another classic that came from that. And one of my favorite connections, which obviously I didn't know at the time. This is Pre Housewives of Atlanta. But Candi Burris, who is one of the original members of Real Housewives of Atlanta, someone that I did like to watch on that show, famously co wrote Bills, Bills, Bills and Bugaboo. And she's kind of been a prolific record producer and co writer and things like that. But despite critical and commercial success, the group was plagued by internal conflict.

What?

Yeah. Shocking.

This is brand new information.

Shocking. And legal turmoil. Roberson and Luckett attempted to split from the group's manager, Matthew Knowles, citing favoritism of Knowles and Roland. And so that's eventually how we ended up with the three of them, although.

Because latoya, the two that left, and then Michelle Williams and another one came in and then that fourth one only lasted a few months and then she left and they decided to be a trio. And I think it's because Beyonce's favorite number is four. So she just wanted there to be four people. Like, you know.

Yeah. And I just want all the listeners to understand that I took this on because I love Destiny's Child, but I know that my love of Destiny's Child does probably not reach Heath's love of Beyonce. Noah. So to be clear, I love. I mean, I like Beyonce. Don't get me wrong. I listen. Yeah, I'm all in for Cowboy Carter.

But I.

My first love was really Destiny's Child was all that.

I just without Destiny's Child, we wouldn't have the Beyonce we have.

Right, Exactly. But dang, they were a good group. And it just felt right. It felt very like girl anthem. Like women, Anthony sometimes. Even though it was just about cheating boyfriends most of the time.

But when they did, like independent women for Charlie's Angels, that was pretty cool.

Yeah, exactly. Even Bills, I was like yeah. You're not paying any of my bills.

You're what, 15?

Yeah. Like, you're not doing anything. What are you talking about? I loved it.

How did you feel when they reunited at the Super Bowl?

Could watch it over and over and over again. All right. I'd love a reunion tour. I would absolutely fly somewhere to see that.

Do you think that they would stay together long enough for a reunion? To her? No.

I think they get along just fine. I just don't think Beyonce wants to be in a group anymore.

No, no. And I don't even know if it. If, like, her abilities would allow her to be in a group anymore. You know what I mean? Like, she's such a performer, and she's come into that so much. Like, I don't know how, like, even her stage awareness or anything would be appropriate for two other people. And I think that would be very clear, and they would be probably her pulling most people, not necessarily. Like, I want to see Destiny's Child. It would be like. And honestly, I don't. That's a good. Almost a philosophical question, because can you ever see Destiny's Child again? Because with her being at the level of success she is, it's never just going to be the three of them again performing, where they all kind of blend as a group. Like, it's always going to be Beyonce and these two other women.

It's like Diana Ross and the Supremes. The Supremes. And then suddenly, Diana Ross becomes a huge thing. And. Yeah. Yeah.

You're not going to be. You know, it's not going to be the same. So.

Yeah.

But, man, I had a love for Destiny's Child just grew and grew. I remember in college that I was going somewhere. It wasn't with my roommate. It was with my roommate, but it was a couple. Two other people on the floor. This is like, my freshman year of college, and this song came on, and myself and one other person in the car knew it, and I was like, you. We will be friends. Yeah. Because I was like, how do you know? Mm.

And you became friends.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We moved in. Yeah. We lived together all through college.

Okay.

Yeah.

You have an ability to spot that, because you and I at a writing retreat, you looked at me when something real weird was going on, and we both apparently had a look on our face, and you're like, you. Yeah.

I was like, she gets it.

Yeah.

I'm gonna gravitate to that one. Also, she had a really cool leather jacket on. You did?

I did. Oh.

It's like That's a dope jacket.

Okay.

The first night, I don't think you were wearing it when that incident that we're talking about happened, but you were night before. And I was like, okay.

Oh, I think I know what jacket. It was a dope jacket.

It was a dope jacket. Yeah, it was awesome.

Did you have it?

Yeah, I think it's in my closet. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a good one.

I remember in. I think it was 2000, when Destiny's Child played the Cattle Congress in Waterloo because they had booked it before the Writings on the Wall kind of blew up.

Blew up? Yeah.

Cause, I mean, for anyone that doesn't know, the Cattle Congress is basically a small version of, like, state fairgrounds and, like, the place where they had concerts, they had a dirt floor, and you would just put, like, folding chairs on.

Please tell me you went.

No, I tried to. I tried to win tickets off the radio. I called the radio several times. Like, I would have it, like, on as I was at work all day, and I'm, like, not working. I'm just listening to the radio. So I'd, like, call him, you know? Yeah, I did once. I remember calling it, and I was like, oh, did I win the Beyonce, or did I win the Disney Child tickets? And I'm like, we haven't done the thing yet, man. Like, I thought I had heard it, and I didn't. And I didn't hear it, and I. It was. Yeah, the guy, like, stop it.

Cheater.

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Did you have. I did. I cover. I was really only focused on Destiny's Child, not Beyonce. But no.

Yeah, I thought it was great.

Okay.

Yeah.

I could just tell his posture changed a little when I started talking about.

Well, I thought you were going to talk about what I was going to talk about. It's not the same group of people. So.

So what's yours?

Yeah, I was thinking about the Spice Girls.

Oh, also.

Yeah, that's also really good.

1997 was a huge year for the Spice Girls, but we've got to kind of back up a little bit to sort of get all the history of these five ladies. In the early 1990s, someone named Bob Herbert and his son Chris Herbert decided Herbert. Yeah.

That's what I named all my fictional people. I drew Herbert. I always drew a fictional guy, and I called him Herbert. Wow.

You refer to him as Herb for short.

Nope. Herb. Herb. Missed opportunity.

They decided. I feel like this is weird the way people do this. Like, they decided they want to, like, make a musical group. Like, they do this with boy bands a lot. And I just think it's strange that, like, people who are not musically talented and just maybe know somebody in the music industry just decide, oh, we're gonna make a bunch of money off someone.

Else'S talent, and then shove a bunch of people together that probably aren't meant to be in a band or a group or. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, they decided they wanted to make a girl group as sort of a counterpart to all the boy bands that were sort of. I mean, at this point, they were kind of on their way out. This was before the second wave of later in the 90s, but they wanted to create a group of five very different women who would each appeal to a different audience. In February of 1994, they put an ad in the newspaper encouraging singers to come in and audition for the group. And 400ish women showed up. So they had a big response.

Was this just in London, or was it like, okay, yeah.

After several rounds of auditions, the group as we know it had mostly been assembled. One of the singers from the original lineup of the Spice Girls was replaced by Emma Button, Baby Spice for what the Herberts thought was a lack of commitment to the group by the woman who was dismissed. And this is probably just somebody who was just like, what?

Yeah, yeah.

What are we doing here?

Yeah. What? Wait, what?

Yeah.

Okay, so the Herbert's moved all five women into a house so they could get to know each other.

Oh, God.

Practice song. Like, yeah. This is different than just like. This is like, if you apply. It feels like if you apply for a job, and they're like, yeah, you know, we'd like to hire you, by the way. This is where you live now.

Oh, my God.

You live here with your co workers.

Yeah.

And because they want a break, they're just like, yeah, sure, whatever. Yeah.

So, yeah, they wanted. They wanted them to live together so they could practice songs and record demos and work on choreography and all that stuff. And basically, you know, they'd be around it. They'd be doing that all the time because they lived in this house, and that's just. That was their day. The original name of the group was Torch, but decided to change it to Spice after they wrote a song called Sugar and Spice. So it was just Spice for a while.

What listeners can't tell is Aaron and I both have very skeptical, like, confused faces on. Which accounts for the silence. That doesn't translate. Yeah. Audio podcast.

My mind's a little blown because why do we go backwards and add girls? Spice is better Honestly, or even Torch is better than.

Well, they had. What I read was as they sort of were getting more attention, like, people in the industry would just call them the Spice Girls. So that was just sort of added on and they were like, okay. And there was already a rapper that went by that name. So they.

Okay, that makes sense. I can see that happening. Yeah.

So by late 1994, the group was starting to get pretty antsy because they still didn't have an official contract with the Herberts. They didn't have a record deal. So after a successful performance at a showcase where there are lots of music industry professionals, the Herberts decided that they better get the group to sign a contract while they still had their chance. Because, I mean, it went really well, Right? Not for the Herberts, for the Spice Girls.

This is so. Okay. I hadn't realized the Herberts weren't really connected at all to the music. So they just randomly brought a bunch of girls and put them in a house and, like, make music for us. And then had no, like, place.

I mean, there was obviously secret cameras in there.

I have to believe they're just masturbating like crazy to those cameras.

Yes. So you said the quiet part.

So the Herbert's give them a contract. They want him to sign it. All five refused, based on legal advice from Victoria Adams, who was later Victoria Beckham. Her dad was like, do not sign this. This is not a good contract.

Oh, so he was. He was trying to take advantage of them.

Yeah. So the group decides to leave the Herbert's, and when they did, they snuck into the recording studio and stole all their master recordings that they'd already finished. And so through contacts they made at the showcase, they found new songwriters, they found new producers and management to work with. And so while working with these new people, that's when they wrote and recorded Wannabe and Two Become One and say youy'll Be There, like some of their biggest songs. Right. So at this point, there's lots of buzz around the group and several record labels decide they want to sign them. And they sign with Virgin Records. And again, like I said we talked about before, they changed their name from Spice to the Spice Girls. This is when they did that. Okay, so it's still 1996 when they released that first song, Wannabe, in the United Kingdom, and that was followed by say youy'll Be There and Two Become One. All three songs were huge hits in Britain. A magazine named Top of the Pops, which is a TV show I've heard of in Britain, but They have apparently at one point, had a magazine. They wrote an article about the group and gave each one, each woman in the group, a nickname. And that's where they did that. Yes, that's where Sporty Spice and Scary Spice and Ginger Spice and Baby Spice and Posh Spice. That's where they kind of all came from.

I kind of hate that.

I do, too, because poor Scary Spice.

I know. Yeah. They looked at her and they're like, well, the black girl has to be right.

That was always weird. It's like, why, like, the rest of them are complimentary names. Scary and. Yeah, it felt weird.

Maybe Baby. That's kind of a. Baby Spice is kind of a rough one, too, but.

So in January of 1997, that's when they released Wannabe in the United States. It was interesting because basically that first album had come out and done all sorts of business in the United Kingdom and Europe, and then they kind of started over with the same stuff in the United States. So, yeah, Wannabe went on to be a number one song for like a month. It was the number one song in the Billboard Hot 100, say youy'll Be There and 2 Become 1 were both released in the United States the months that followed. And their album Spice was the best selling album of the year in the United States for 1997.

Wow.

It's a big, big hit. So later that year, they released the follow up album, Spice World and the lead single, Spice up youp Life. And those were hits, but they just wasn't at this point, as you probably both recall. We were all a little bit like, it's been a lot of Spice Girl.

Yeah.

Kind of a constant thing for the whole year.

We were full up on Spice Girl. Yeah.

Because they were really, really pushing them, too.

They were everywhere and they felt a little one dimensional. Like it felt like kind of the same song all the time. Just.

Well.

And I think at least I was just like, this isn't like feminism, this is like weird girl power. Like, I just didn't like.

Yeah, you have one called Baby.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I tried to hate it. I ended up knowing all the words, but I. I tried to hate it.

Yeah, it was a valiant effort.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I imagine by the end of 1997, they've been singing the same four or five songs, like, constantly for two years. They probably, you know, they just made another album out of necessity just to.

Have something else to say, truly.

Yeah. So the following year, in 98, Spice World was released, which was a movie that, you know, it's a film.

It's a movie.

Yeah, it's a movie.

It has Alan Cumming.

Yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, he's in it. Yeah. And then there was also a tour in 1998, and it was during that tour that Ginger Spice quit the group. Some say she would quit because she wasn't getting along with Scary Spice, with Mel B. But the official reason was exhaustion and disillusionment.

Oh.

I was gonna say exhaustion usually is, you know, some sort of alcohol or drug thing, but, like, disillusionment. That's interesting.

Yeah.

That feels a little straightforward.

Yeah. So it might be real.

Yeah. Also, I like thinking that I could use that.

Yeah.

I will not be attending due to disillusionment.

That's why I'm considering breaking up with the United States.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Can we list that on our asylum forms? Like, can we get asylum because we're disillusioned?

I can't.

I just can't.

I just can't.

So, yeah. The group released another album in 2000 called Forever, and then they went on hiatus, which. I don't know. Is that funny? Is that ironic? I'm not sure. In the years since, they've gone on a couple of reunion tours and performed at the closing ceremonies at the Olympics in 2012. One of those reunion tours, it's called the Return of the Spice Girls, was announced in 2007. So this is, you know, 10 years after kind of their heyday. And the tickets for the first date in London sold out in 38 seconds. So they added 16 more shows for London, and they all sold out in less than a minute.

Oh, my God.

16 more shows sold out in less than a minute. That is insane.

So, yeah, they were. You know, they're still a pretty big deal, and they've talked about reuniting on and off over the years. But Victoria Beckham has always sort of been to hold out because she says she's too busy with her fashion line. I think she maybe just doesn't need the money. I mean, her husband.

She's solid.

She's good.

Yeah.

And, I mean, I don't know if I was sleeping with David Beckham. I'm not sure I'd be like, yeah, I'll leave for a few months to go out on tour with people. I think I'd be good at home. No, it reminds me of. You saw that clip online where she was being interviewed about something and she was talking about how her humble beginnings and stuff like that. And he's off camera not participating in this in Any way, shape or form. Like, he's in a separate room, he can just hear her. And he's like, humble beginnings. Like, what are you talking about? It keeps pressing her on. She's like, we had humble beginnings. And she's like, what car did your father drive? She was hesitantly acknowledged that he drove a Rolls Royce.

Oh.

And she referred to her humble beginnings.

I like that he called her on her shit, though.

I do too. I like that a lot.

Rules Royce. Jesus. That's Richie Rich.

Yeah, that's next level. That's not even just like, yeah, I mean, I was fine. I was like, no, we had money.

Well, good, good time travel.

That was a good time travel.

How did you feel about Spice Girls when they were out?

I remember when the song Wannabe came out. I remember it was sort of at the end of like, everything was sort of grunge for about four years. There wasn't a lot of pop music going on. And so this kind of like turning the corner because then after this, you know, and then a couple years later, there was Britney Spears and there was the Baxter Boys. And the Baxter Boys, I think, were actually later that same year. And it just sort of the kind of pendulum went back the other way to more.

Maybe that's why I didn't like it too, because I was fine with all the grudge and the. And the rock. It was like, we. We're good right here.

Let's stay right here.

We don't need to move. Yep. All right, so my next one, I took a gamble and did true crime. So we'll see if I.

How dare you?

Did you do true crime? Okay, good. All right.

Just making sure.

All right. This is the Jenny Jones show murder trial.

Oh, yeah, this is a good one.

Which I had completely forgotten until I looked this up. So this whole cluster of a thing started in 1995, a little bit before this, when a 24 year old man named Jonathan Schmitz was invited to appear on the Jenny Jones Show. And if you don't remember the Jenny Jones show, this was very similar to like Sally Jesse Raphael, Ricky Lake, this was all like, even Donahue a little bit. Oh, yeah, maybe later Maury Povich. It was, you know, sort of the gotcha television. And you never knew what you would be. You know, it could be good or bad kind of gotcha television.

I remember they had an episode called you're too good looking to be gay. And they just had people on that were just attractive and happened to be gay. And like, everyone in the audience was like, you're too good looking to be gay. Like, like that. That the level of show that's what we're talking about, should have been you're.

Too good looking to be straight. Because usually it, usually it's the gay guys that are beautiful.

Yeah, exactly.

Lord.

And it was always my brain with all the crushes I had on guys.

And it always had, you know, the, the, the banners at the bottom where it was something ridiculous. And it was probably like Scott's too handsome to be gay or something like that. Yeah. So anyway, this was a segment on the Jenny Jones show called Same Sex Secret Crushes Revealed.

Playing with Fire, Jenny Jones.

Jonathan Schmitz was told that someone had a crush on him, but he didn't know the title of this segment. He didn't know who had the crush on him. I imagine he assumed it was a lady.

And they did that a lot in the talk shows of the mid-90s where they would bring people on and not tell them why so they could get the reaction.

Which, you know, I would think after a while, anyone in the 90s would have learned, maybe don't accept the invite from whatever show this is, but, you know, nope, gotta have your fame. So on the show, on the show, Jonathan found out that his admirer was a male acquaintance, Scott Amadour, a 32 year old friend and neighbor. So Jonathan, when he found out, he sort of laughed awkwardly and said, oh no, you know, I'm heterosexual. And the taping ended without incident. And then three days later, Jonathan bought a shotgun, went to Scott's house and shot him twice in the chest, killing him.

Wait, wait a minute. The guy that had the crush killed Scott or Scott?

No, no, the guy that, that was crushed upon. Yes, he.

Okay, that's what I thought. I got confused for a second.

Okay, Scott was the one with the crush.

Yes, yes.

Poor Scott. Just crushing on a straight guy. Didn't know this. Yeah. So Jonathan, the killer, he confessed to the murder and he claimed he was humiliated and emotionally disturbed by the surprise on tv. And his defense was about gay panic.

Oof.

That he felt confused and ashamed after being on national television and having a dude say that he was into him. That's enough for murder.

I mean, in my experience, gay panic is what, Like I go into a barbershop and I've got to butch it up. Like that's gay panic. It's not someone's says I like you on tv. Like that's not gay pain.

No, no. So anyway, Jonathan was convicted of second degree murder and he was sentenced to 25 to 50 years in prison. But that conviction was later overturned and he was retried and convicted again in 1999. He ultimately served 22 years, but he was overturned because they were like, it makes sense. It was gay and it was panic. So, you know, anyone would do it kind of thing.

So he's just out on the streets now?

Yeah.

Oh God.

Yeah. Probably panicking at every, you know, he's.

Gonna get mad at us because we're talking about.

Yep. He's gonna hear this and he's gonna have some more gay panic. So everybody watch the out because this guy is unhinged. So the. But what's interesting is that beyond the, the trial itself and the murder, it became a legal and ethical scandal for the Jenny Jones Show.

Yeah.

And daytime TV as a whole. Like, like we said, all these shows are doing this, this sort of gotcha television. And the episode itself never aired, but clips were shown in court and on the news, which made it feel like it was televised. So everybody was seeing this.

Well, I was gonna say, like when you said he did it three days later, like they couldn't have possibly recorded the show and edited it together and aired it in that amount of time. So this was all. I mean, I guess he was in front of a studio audience, so he maybe felt whatever he felt because of them. But it's not like millions of people had seen this.

Yeah, maybe. I mean, he, maybe he was closeted himself and he was, you know, freaking the fuck out because, oh God, someone's gonna think I'm gay now. Because a gay person likes me. Someone's gonna think I'm gay. How dare they? So Scott's family, the guy that was killed, they sued the show for wrongful death, claiming that the producers created a humiliating and unsafe environment by. By ambushing guests for shock value. Which. Yep, that's what they did in the 90s.

Yeah.

But in 1999, a Michigan jury awarded the family $25 million. Unfortunately, that verdict was overturned by an Appeals court in 2002. So, you know, I think this, maybe some other things too. It led to a lot of scrutiny of these daytime talk shows, you know, like, like I said, Jerry Springer, Maury, Ricky Lake. And it became a sort of case study for media ethics. You know, like, what responsibility do producers have for the well being of their guests? Although it's interesting now when we think about reality television and how much producers are behind the scenes machining, you know, all of these things. Like, is that ethical discussion just cute now and quaint? Like, I I don't know. But, like. Yeah. And it's often cited in discussions around the gay panic defense, which some states have outlawed or limited. I imagine it's going to become national law now.

Yeah.

That. You know, if you. If you know someone gay likes you, you can murder them.

That's fair. Go for it. Yep, yep, yep, yep.

What a world. Worlds. I remember you told us that you went to see a movie once with a friend, and he made you have a gay chair between you two. So that feels like gay panic.

That does feel like. Yeah, your gay might rub off on me.

Exactly. At least he didn't have a gun. And at least he wasn't, you know, just ready to shoot anyone that might think he's gay.

And even. I mean, I know now, and even then, I. I think I probably knew. That's like, nobody coming in this theater. It' that's not. When they. When you see two men sitting within, you know, two feet of each other, nobody's like, they fucking. Like, nobody's thinking there's hand jobs happening right now.

Look at those seats.

Nobody just, like, sees other people. Whether it's two men or a man and a woman or anything. Be like they're doing it, you know, like, that's just not what I was.

Just trying to think of. Like, when you go on a movie here and I see people together, unless they're doing something really odd, I don't even pay attention. There's no thought of my part. They're like, oh, those must be a couple. Couple. Those are two brothers.

Yeah.

Like, I. There's nothing that ever occurs. Why would that happen?

It's only if you're having some dickish behavior. Am I paying attention to you?

Yeah, I notice or something. Yeah. Or if a random guy sits next to Amy and makes comments. I always notice that.

But that's reprehensible.

Reprehensible. What a nut. Okay, I'm gonna. I did a movie. We just switched spots.

Oh, my goodness. Yes. This is very weird, me doing true crime.

And the only reason that I'm doing this is because I want to be clear that in 1997, I did not see this movie.

Oh.

I have now since seen this movie quite a bit, solely because of my husband, because my husband's favorite Christmas movie is Chevy Chase's Christmas Vacation. Okay. Which means that a lot of times when they show that movie around Christmas, they do, like, a marathon of all the movies. And he is more than happy to leave that on the TV. Which brings us to 1997 and Vegas vacation.

Oh, wow. This is cinema. It's its finest.

It is. There are so many plot problems, holes, weird behavior. I don't even know how they got this done and said yes and sent it, but I'm assuming it did. Well, I don't. So Clark Griswold finally gets that bonus that he's worried about in Christmas vacation. This is how we tie it together.

Okay.

How we tie it together.

Yep.

The loosest of ties. And he says, guess what? We're all gonna go on vacation. And they're like, okay, great. Where are we going? And he's like, vegas, because your mom and I are gonna renew our vows. Oh, okay. So a couple things, huh?

Yeah.

One, two. Family vacation in Vegas feels like an oxymoron. Like.

Yeah. What are you.

I enjoy Vegas. I actually do. Mike and I have been. I have no desire to take anyone else in my family with us when we go to Vegas. Like, it's not like a. A family friendly. Like, I want to, you know, walk around. Audrey and Eddie are still, for some reason, teenagers.

Yeah. They have not aged 4, 3. Casting or something.

Yeah, yeah, we lose. We lost some good actors and replaced them with subpar. And Audrey's whole personality changes in this movie. She's like a very, like, timid, sort of tame, like, wilting, like, flower. Whereas, you know, when we started. No, it was way better. Yeah. Anyway, so first, of course, we have to bring in cousin Eddie. So they visit him on the way to Vegas, and he happens to live on a former hydrogen bomb test site.

Oh, that explains a lot.

Yeah. And Eddie's like, yeah, I'm down for Vegas. I can meet you there. Whatever. We get the idea that Eddie could pop in at any time. So the next thing that we know is that they're going to take a tour of the Hoover Dam. They've arrived in Vegas. We're looking for things to do. They tour the Hoover Dam, and right away, Clark gets up to hijinx and gets trapped in the Hoover Dam and causes a leak that he tries to fix with bubblegum gum. And when it continues to leak, he instead scales a bunch of scaffolding to escape and just keeps the ordeal to himself. Never tells anyone that he was separated from the group or caused a leak or anything, which to me, actually seems like the most unbelievable part of the movie, because this guy, in every other aspect, character and actor, I believe, would never not brag about that. That he scaled the Hoover tension. Yeah. That makes no sense to me. But okay. Okay, so we have that little scene which is super fun. The next evening, a dress for Ellen and tickets for the family arrive. And the tickets are to a Wayne Newton concert. So they go, and they soon find out that Wayne himself sent the tickets and the dress because he has a crush on Ellen, since he sings to her, tries to bring her up on stage. Okay, we just move on from that. We don't talk about it. We move on from it. So the next day, they all agree to have an alone day. And In a tight 24 hours, Clark develops the worst gambling problem in the history of gambling problems. Okay, he is down a lot of money. Within hours, he's reading books at the buffet. He doesn't know what he's doing, but it's. We get the sense that it's bad. Rusty, on the other hand, becomes a successful high roller after securing a fake ID with the name Nick Papagiorgio.

Is this Ethan Embry is the kid.

Audrey starts to hang out with some exotic dancers led by her cousin. And this is where I mentioned, like, she's this shrinking flower that's just surprised by all this behavior. And the Juliet Lewis version was so much more like edgy and starkey and would have been so much more fun in Vegas. Like, I understand why as an actor, she didn't want to do this. I get it. And probably she was too old at that point to pass off as a teenager, but man, we really, we should have at least kept her vibe and her attitude because what came out was like subpar. But in the meantime, Wayne Newton and Ellen's relationship progresses terrifically. Yeah. Just moving right away.

How would we describe Wayne Newton? Like, he was waxy. Like, I keep thinking of Robert Goulet and Will Ferrell's Robert Goulet. And it's kind of a similar vibe, right?

Similar vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I think for someone who was a star like in, you know, with Vegas fame, like, to do the movie was a little strange, but yet I could almost see, like he maybe wasn't totally in on the joke. Like he kind of, I don't know, it's like, ooh, I'm gonna expect to.

Romance Beverly D'Onofrio or whatever. Yeah, D'Angelo, D'Onofrio. Same thing, you know.

So in the meantime, Clark gambles away the family's $22,600 family bank account. I don't know why it's a family bank account or why they all know what's in there exactly.

But shouldn't Beverly have just cut him off? Be like chatty Chase is A dick. We gotta supervise him at all times.

Idiots. She is furious and she and the kids both storm out and leave. And Audrey, seeing no other option, secures a job as a go go dancer with her new exotic friends. Because I guess she's also a dum dum and just couldn't return home. She thought her old man, she was a child of the streets.

In this tight 24 hours.

Tight 24 hours. Rusty, on the other hand, wins four cars. Four different cars. So which is sort of begs the question why we weren't ever discussing that he had four cars or money this whole time. Because Eddie steps in and gives Clark some money that he had buried in his front yard. Yeah. And Clark loses it and then decides that all he really wants is his family. So he's just going to leave and go find his family. Which is great timing for Eddie because I took your money, lost it, and then had had an epiphany and said, nope, actually, family is the only thing that matters. So for some reason, they all come together and they agree to play one last two dollar game of keno. And the only other guy, no lessons have been learned. No lessons?

No.

The only other guy in the keno place is an elderly man that they're kind of annoyed with. But then they end up talking to. They lose, he wins a bunch of money, the old or gentleman promptly dies. So they're standing there, personnel comes in to take him away, and you see the ticket flutter to the ground. The winning ticket. And of course, Clark puts his foot out, steps on it, and brings it to himself just under shoe. Never says anything. So now they have all this money and they get their vows renewed, they pay Eddie back the five grand, and they all hightail it back to home in Rusty's four cars. Everybody gets to drive a different car home.

Based on my experience watching Ocean's Eleven, I feel like security in Las Vegas is different than the way they're portraying it. Well, it's tighter. I feel like somebody's gonna check Nick Papagiorgio's soch before they give him four cars.

I agree, because the four cars were just in the parking lot. But again, my takeaway from the story is one, I think you need to spend some more time parenting. Audrey panicked so much and became a go to dancer that quick. Like, she's not set up for any of Life's subst downs. 2. Rusty, we were down to our last $2 and you were letting us play keno and you had four cars sitting in the parking lot like.

Yeah, like he's not. So he's not putting it together. He's missing something up here.

Yeah, we could have sold. I mean, lot of problems with that. But they see no problems at the end. They all drive a separate car home. It's a piece of cinema. I don't know. I don't know. The first time I watched it, like, there's some nostalgia in the Christmas vacation one. Like there's some funny scenes. It is what it is. It's supposed to be that. Like it's somewhat campy. There's some funny lines, like. But this one just felt so slap hazardly thrown together and it feels like a money grab.

Like somebody was just like, people have goodwill towards the Christmas vacation.

Yes.

Let's see if we can squeeze some more money out of people.

Yes, absolutely. And that's why I think it always gets coupled. Like you see it a lot at Christmas time because that's when they play all of them. Like the European vacation, the original Chevy Chase vacation, Christmas vacation and then Vegas vacation. Yeah, it's over. And I think they knew that after this one, like we've run out of.

They made another one that's I think Eddie's Island Vacation that's just got EDDIE CHASE, Beverly D'Angelo, I don't think are anything.

I didn't know that.

It's like Eddie Goes to Hawaii or something like that.

Oh, I don't know if Eddie can carry a whole movie.

Yeah. In no world do I want to watch him for an hour and a half.

No, no. He's funny. Like the only movie that I really enjoy him in is Christmas Vacation because it's a little less sad otherwise. His roles are always like, oh my God, it's so alarming. But wow. So if you're not doing anything tonight.

I'm not gonna watch that.

Don't watch Vegas Vacation.

Just keep doing nothing. Here's a different movie from 1997.

Oh, good.

Oh, hopefully better.

Well, probably, I think probably. Well, it's called My Best Friend's Wedding.

Oh, this is.

Fuck. I love this movie. I still have the soundtrack to this movie on cd. Oh, God.

Oh, man.

It stars Julia Roberts as Jules Potter, a woman who's about to make a long series of very bad choices. Max, Jules and her best friend Michael, who's played by Dermot Mulroney, a very lovely Dermot Mulroney. They've agreed that if they are both single when they turn 28.

Once I became an adult and turned 28, I'm like, what the fuck is that about 28.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's an insanely young age to be like, we're just throwing this towel in here. I'll marry whoever's around. I just need to get married. Anyhow, as luck would have it, it's three weeks before Jules 28th birthday. And Michael gives her a call and lets her know that he's engaged to be married in just four days.

Which, again, is like, turnaround wedding.

Yeah.

If you're.

That's your best friend, I feel like.

You know, you would know.

Right, Right. So the woman Michael is set to marry, her name is Kenny Wallace, and she's played by young Cameron Diaz. That character is only 20 years old.

Yeah.

Which again, is. But not the age to get married, I don't think.

No.

And, like, she's leaving college. And again, I didn't really register all of this until later. I was like, what are we watching?

Yeah, it's rough. Yeah, man, I loved it.

Her dad owns the Chicago White Sox, so.

Yeah, that's true.

She's got that going for her.

Yeah.

So now Jules has decided that she's in love with Michael and sets out to sabotage the wedding. First, she tries to humiliate Kimmy at a karaoke bar. And that doesn't work. Cause Kimmy's just too damn perky for her own good. I just don't think humiliation is something that sort of registers with her. Then she tries to get Kimmy to convince her dad to offer Michael a job, knowing that that would piss Michael off. But that doesn't work either the first time she tries. So she's not really making any progress. So Jules calls her other best friend, noted homosexual George Downs.

Noted homosexual.

She asked George to come to Chicago and help her ruin this wedding.

And it's Rupert Everett.

Yes, it's true.

Who is also beautiful. Oh, God.

So Jules. To try to make Michael jealous, Jules tells him that she's engaged to George. So again, this is sort of like, but you guys are best friends. Like, wouldn't you?

And he was also like, no, he's too good looking to be gay.

I've seen the Jenny Jones Show.

At some point, doesn't he say, I really thought he was gay? And she's like, he does that. You know, it's a joke. Like, oh, this is so 1997.

Yeah.

So against his better judgment, George kind of plays along with a little charade. And then also leads the whole wedding party in a rousing rendition of I say a Little Prayer in a crowded restaurant. And somehow, nobody, except for Michael detects that he is a noted homosexual.

Yeah.

Nobody's like.

It's like.

Oh, man.

So the day before the wedding, Jules hacks the email account because that's the level we're at now. She hacks the email account of Kimmy's dad and writes an email to Michael's boss asking him to fire Michael so Kimmy's dad can hire him. And I don't think that's how these things work.

No, like that doesn't. That doesn't track.

It's also not something you do to someone you love.

Yep, yep. This is getting real dark.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, I don't know, like I get phishing emails, you know about.

Yes.

Owing somebody money for tolls that are more believable than that.

A lot of tolls. Ones.

Lot of tolls. Ones.

Yep. So Jules doesn't send the email. She kind of has second thought. She just ends up saving it to the drafts folder because, you know, why would you not just leave that there for this man to discover at some point?

Uh huh.

Of course, Kimmy's dad ends up sending the email unknowingly. So Michael gets a call from his boss. Michael's pissed and argues with Kimmy. They call for the wedding. So mission accomplished. Apparently.

I guess really Jules is not being a good friend.

No.

She doesn't really understand French.

No.

The only issue is that neither Michael nor Kimmy told anyone that they had called off the wedding. So wedding day arrives and the preparations are happening as if there was no argument, as if, you know, everything's just going according to plan. Jules decides that Michael's wedding day is the best day to finally confess her love to him.

Jesus.

And she kisses him and Kimmy sees us and she gets pissed and she drives away. Right. This is all in Chicago, Amy. You've lived in Chicago. It's real easy to have a three car chase in Chicago on a Sunday afternoon.

Yep.

So Jules finally catches up to Michael at Union Station, which is near downtown Chicago. She confesses everything and for some reason he forgives her. Yeah, I don't think I would do that right away. At least I think. I think I'd have to.

No, that's too psycho. That is too psycho to come from.

That's when you start thinking like, oh, wow, okay, my friend has changed and we gotta reevaluate.

This is what's wrong with society right now is that we are not okay. Calling out psychobee. We're like, well, they were having a bad day. Gay panic, whatever. No, that's insane. And we are no longer Friends.

Yeah, like that's.

How do you come back from that? Honestly, Truly, and I mean well.

Okay, we'll circle back to that. So Jules goes looking for Kimmy and obviously finds her in a bathroom at Comiskey park where the White Sox play. And because super easy, right? Because again, in Chicago, the laws of space and time, at least on this day, just don't exist. They're real easy to get from downtown to the south side, lickety split, go in. And I'm sure there's only one ladies.

Room in all of Chemistry park just to find her. Yeah, no problem.

Joe's and Kimmy kind of have it out while a crowd of ladies waiting to take a piss kind of all watch it go down. Kimmy forgives her, and then they both head out for the wedding. And again, I don't think I would have forgiven her that quickly. Especially if you're Kimmy, because this is all you know of this woman. You've known her.

You've known her four days and you're like, this bitch is Satan.

Yes, she has been. She's been bad and mean and dishonest with you the entire time, like, and stealing her man. Right. But with Michael, they at least had a history before this episode of bad choices, so.

But she's good looking, so all's forgiven.

That's true. Yeah.

I did have some trouble finding the details about it on the Internet, but I remember a long time ago, I read an article about this movie and they were discussing how they had to add in the scene in the women's restroom with those two fighting because test audiences had watched it and they were just like, the Jules character needs to. Someone needs to call her out on her bullshit. Because that wasn't in the original. It was. It was her. She confessed to Michael, Michael forgave her, and then they went to the wedding and that was it.

That was actually smart that. I mean, focus groups don't usually help movies, I don't think. But yeah, that one situation where they did.

Yeah. And you can kind of tell if you watch that scene, like, it's pretty obvious that Julia Roberts and Cameron Dierzer weren't wigs because, like, it had been months since they filmed and they had different hairstyles. So it was. Yeah, but it was. I mean, it was smart for them to add that in because it would.

Have been very much.

Yeah, very. For sure.

And I also just. I mean, I guess want to point out that for young people, want. Listening to this. If you're 28, you're not married. You're fine.

Yeah. You're so fine. Yeah.

Okay. Actually, yeah.

You don't need to make any plans about, oh, my God, if I'm single at any age, I'm just gonna marry.

My random marriage pack in general. Not a good idea.

Not a good idea.

Yeah. Don't. It's not necessary to kind of compare where you are in your life path to where someone else is.

Nope. This was also kind of a gamble to make Julia Roberts less than just beautifully likable.

It's true.

Yeah. Because she was it at the time. So to even have her play some gray areas was pretty risky, I bet.

And they didn't. I'm sure she had representation and management stuff. They were just like, no, just keep making movies, like, and just be, you know, America's sweetheart, because you're making a lot of money doing that, and so am I then.

But this was. Was this a hit?

Yeah.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah. I remember I loved it at the time.

I did, too. Yeah.

It was a. It was a big hit movie, and I think it made, like, $100 million. And I remember at the time, though, it didn't make as much money as, like, some other Julia Roberts movies did, because, again, she was not ideal through this whole thing.

Sure.

Her character wasn't anyway, but I was. I think it was Wikipedia or something. When I was reading about this, when I was getting ready, they were just like, oh, the huge hit. One of the biggest hits of the whole year. And, like, it was this glowing thing. I'm like, who wrote this? Did Rert ever write this? Like, did people, like, is that what she's doing now? Like, who.

Who got hold of this?

Uhhuh.

I mean. And, you know, for better or worse, this was a bit of gay representation that we didn't have at the time, so. And at the end, it was a lovely scene where, you know, like, she didn't win her goal. She got to keep one friend at least.

Yeah.

Even though. Yeah, he maybe should have looked at their friendship too. Be like, girl, you psycho.

But that's interesting. You like to look at it from, like, the timeline perspective, too. Cause, like, two days before, George had left Chicago, and then Jules is at the wedding reception, sitting by herself, talking to him on the phone, and then he shows up and dances with her. And that's kind of how it ends. I'm like, this motherfucker flew back to Chicago from New York.

Yeah.

And it was almost. I do remember it was almost presented as like, oh, they're gonna have the romance. Like, Suddenly he's gon not gay anymore.

Yeah, I do remember that feeling too. Yeah, you're right. The scene we don't have is them on a plane to their honeymoon being like, so we're not friends, honey. Like, we're done. Like, I mean, we made it nice for the day.

We can't trust Jules.

We're good on that.

Good stuff.

Good. Yeah.

That is a good one.

That if you are bored tonight is worth.

Worth a watch. Yeah, it actually. I haven't seen that in a long time. I bet there would be a lot of like, oh, God kind of moments.

I was rewatching that, trying to think of like, you know, when Barbie and Oppenheimer are out and it was like people were seeing those back to back.

Yeah.

Like if Vegas vacation at the same time. What that would be called My Best Friend's Vegas.

Oh, boy. I mean, if Barbenheimer worked, this could work.

Yeah.

Who knows?

Who knows?

Fuzzy Memories is a broads and books production. It's hosted by Heath Smith, Aaron Johnston and Amy Lee Lillard. Big thanks to our supporters on Patreon, especially those at the make me famous level, including Haley Scarpino, Nick Thornton, Daniela Barzallo, Matthew Serbo. Back and last name greatest. Sign up at our Patreon for bonuses and new stuff. And be sure to follow us at Fuzzy Memories pod on Instagram for clips and highlights. See you next time. I'd just like to point out the pings that were probably recorded here were from your husband and they sent us a picture that we need to describe for our listeners.

So I haven't seen this picture yet either.

Will you take a stab at describing that, Eric?

I don't.

This is from a gala that you attended with your husband.

Is all right. This is a. I want you to imagine that Heath has a somewhat confused. Confused slash worried look on his face.

Skepticism.

Skepticism, yes. Yep. As there's a large eagle that looks like it could be ready to attack. But that's just sort of on a nice backboard of.

This is at an event center, by the way. This is not outdoors.

No, this is wild. There's two sort of off placed eggs that could make for a better joke if you had lined up better with them.

I should have knelt down. They were my breath.

Oh, I was gonna go bald gigantic.

That would have worked too. And then on the third one is sort of over and there's a tiny stuffed bald eagle popping out of that one.

Here you can take a look because you haven't seen yourself in this.

Yeah, yeah. The eagle I guess the eagle itself behind me is what's made of bubble wrap, I think the rest of it. Yeah. There's some bubble wrap in the nest area, but a lot of it looks like it's just sticks.

Should we make this picture your new picture on our website?

I don't know. I mean, I've got Jesus on me.

I know. I like you and jc. I like that a lot.

Your facial expression makes that photo.

Yeah, this is good. We'll ask Michael if we can share that on social so that people can see it, see what we're talking about.

And Heath as well. We'll ask permission.

I guess I should say ask the photographer, but not the subject. We don't ask for consent here. We don't do it.

He's like, I have a new unmitigated call.