1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,610 Welcome to the eCommerce Podcast. 2 00:00:06,610 --> 00:00:09,610 My name is Matt Edmundson, and we are chatting today about all 3 00:00:09,610 --> 00:00:12,475 things eCommerce, as you would probably expect, but specifically. 4 00:00:13,375 --> 00:00:18,625 We are talking to, uh, a, an absolute legend, uh, Jordan West about TikTok shop. 5 00:00:18,955 --> 00:00:23,155 We're gonna get into all of that and if you're new to the show very well and 6 00:00:23,155 --> 00:00:25,795 welcome to you, make sure you like and subscribe and do all of that sort of good 7 00:00:25,795 --> 00:00:27,115 stuff 'cause it's great to see you here. 8 00:00:27,685 --> 00:00:30,775 Um, and of course to stay right off the bat, you, if you haven't done 9 00:00:30,775 --> 00:00:34,135 so already, come connect with me on LinkedIn, connect with Jordan on LinkedIn. 10 00:00:34,135 --> 00:00:36,895 Jordan, you are perhaps one of the busiest men on LinkedIn. 11 00:00:36,895 --> 00:00:40,105 It seems you, you have been killing it recently. 12 00:00:41,410 --> 00:00:45,110 You know it's funny, I tried to hire somebody to help me. 13 00:00:45,820 --> 00:00:49,570 Um, and so I was like, okay, I'm gonna train you. 14 00:00:49,570 --> 00:00:53,380 I'm gonna give you the ideas and I'm gonna train you to write like me. 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,920 And it was three months and I didn't publish a single one. 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,500 And it took me so long. 17 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:02,830 And I was like, and I realized, I'm like, now there's some things that 18 00:01:02,830 --> 00:01:05,979 you can, that you can outsource. 19 00:01:07,210 --> 00:01:08,020 People would argue, yeah. 20 00:01:08,020 --> 00:01:08,590 Yeah, go ahead. 21 00:01:08,590 --> 00:01:10,690 You can outsource your writing if you, if you want. 22 00:01:10,690 --> 00:01:14,350 I think that there's some things that really depends and so my reach actually 23 00:01:14,380 --> 00:01:19,450 interestingly, went down during that time as I was trying to go back and forth 24 00:01:19,450 --> 00:01:21,790 with him on this sort of stuff immensely. 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,860 And I was like, oh yeah, that's right. 26 00:01:23,860 --> 00:01:25,870 There's some things you can outsource, some things that you 27 00:01:25,870 --> 00:01:27,550 cannot and that you should not. 28 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:28,180 Right. 29 00:01:28,180 --> 00:01:31,990 And for me, I think that writing is one of the things that I love to do. 30 00:01:32,050 --> 00:01:33,400 Um, I was gonna call it a superpower. 31 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:34,360 I don't know if it's a superpower. 32 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:35,080 I wouldn't say I'm like. 33 00:01:35,785 --> 00:01:36,685 A, a great writer. 34 00:01:36,685 --> 00:01:42,025 I think I just, I love communicating and I love sharing things that come up 35 00:01:42,025 --> 00:01:44,935 throughout the day because I have so many different conversations, whether it's with 36 00:01:44,935 --> 00:01:46,855 like consulting clients or at our agency 37 00:01:47,155 --> 00:01:50,725 or, you know, uh, anything or with like really smart people like you where 38 00:01:50,725 --> 00:01:52,465 I'm like, Ooh, I need to share this. 39 00:01:52,735 --> 00:01:53,875 I need to share this now. 40 00:01:54,055 --> 00:01:57,775 That's, that's the only reason that I prolifically post on LinkedIn. 41 00:01:58,615 --> 00:02:02,005 it's that, but it's, I, I mean, I, I love it and I, I, you know, it's great to 42 00:02:02,005 --> 00:02:03,595 follow it and, and, and connect with it. 43 00:02:03,595 --> 00:02:09,145 And I think it's, um, the, the way you write, I'm, I'm always, I'm 44 00:02:09,145 --> 00:02:12,775 always drawn by how well you'd, I dunno if you do it intentionally, 45 00:02:12,775 --> 00:02:14,215 but the whole sales side of things. 46 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:16,270 Like, Do you know what I mean? 47 00:02:16,270 --> 00:02:19,090 It's, you, you do the whole fear of missing out thing really. 48 00:02:19,090 --> 00:02:23,080 Well, you do the whole, I'm drawn in by the information and if I 49 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,960 don't get involved in this or if I don't stay connected with you, then 50 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,290 I'm like, I'm gonna be the biggest loser on the planet kind of thing. 51 00:02:29,290 --> 00:02:30,160 And, and it's like, 52 00:02:31,030 --> 00:02:32,425 I, don't mean to do that, Matt. 53 00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:33,580 no, I don't. 54 00:02:33,580 --> 00:02:36,010 And I, but I, I don't think it's intentional, but I think you do. 55 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,280 It just comes across super well, you know, and I can, so I can 56 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,860 see why your reach is growing. 57 00:02:41,860 --> 00:02:43,870 'cause I think that draws people in the way you do it. 58 00:02:44,335 --> 00:02:44,845 Hmm. 59 00:02:44,995 --> 00:02:45,805 Well that's super nice. 60 00:02:46,050 --> 00:02:49,105 It's, it's also interesting, and I know, you know, this is the, the 61 00:02:49,105 --> 00:02:51,025 e-comm podcast, the eCommerce Podcast. 62 00:02:51,025 --> 00:02:51,205 Okay. 63 00:02:51,205 --> 00:02:54,985 So don't worry, we're gonna talk about eCommerce here, but, but I think that 64 00:02:54,985 --> 00:02:59,755 there's something very interesting about you and me being non-Americans, right? 65 00:02:59,755 --> 00:03:01,405 And that, that we can. 66 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:06,990 Like, I've often thought, why are Canadians specifically, and I think 67 00:03:06,990 --> 00:03:12,960 that, I think that British are similar to this, really good marketers to Americans. 68 00:03:13,050 --> 00:03:17,670 Like I, I find I can actually talk to Americans like we have, well basically all 69 00:03:17,670 --> 00:03:19,770 American clients at Social Commerce Club. 70 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:22,290 All of my consulting that I do, it's all American brands 71 00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:26,310 and for some reason I think it's this outside the Jar approach, right. 72 00:03:26,310 --> 00:03:28,951 That you can see because I will see I've, I've had. 73 00:03:29,385 --> 00:03:32,655 American copywriters try and work for Canadian brands before, 74 00:03:32,655 --> 00:03:34,995 and I'm like, no, no, we don't. 75 00:03:35,025 --> 00:03:35,985 We don't go for that. 76 00:03:36,195 --> 00:03:37,575 We don't like go for those. 77 00:03:37,875 --> 00:03:39,405 No, we don't go for those little tricks. 78 00:03:39,405 --> 00:03:39,615 Right. 79 00:03:39,615 --> 00:03:43,035 Versus like, you know, you and I grew up watching faulty towers. 80 00:03:43,335 --> 00:03:43,665 Right? 81 00:03:43,665 --> 00:03:44,385 Like we 82 00:03:45,070 --> 00:03:45,460 yes. 83 00:03:45,460 --> 00:03:46,330 That's so true. 84 00:03:46,330 --> 00:03:46,780 Yeah. 85 00:03:46,780 --> 00:03:46,781 Yeah, 86 00:03:46,785 --> 00:03:47,055 Right. 87 00:03:47,055 --> 00:03:50,925 And like, like think about like the greatest comedies of all time. 88 00:03:51,610 --> 00:03:52,750 Canadian and British. 89 00:03:52,750 --> 00:03:52,960 Right. 90 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,820 And the comedians of our day. 91 00:03:54,820 --> 00:03:55,090 Right? 92 00:03:55,090 --> 00:03:56,890 Like, like look at Schitt's Creek, right? 93 00:03:56,890 --> 00:03:58,360 For so long, right? 94 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:03,190 This was like a Canadian show on CBC, our little funny channel that we have, right? 95 00:04:03,190 --> 00:04:05,860 And like we all watch Schitt's Creek 'cause we're like, oh, this is hilarious. 96 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:10,060 And then the rest of the world sees it and it's like, oh, this is brilliant. 97 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,550 I don't exactly know what it is. 98 00:04:12,550 --> 00:04:14,260 This is something I actually wanna do a documentary on you. 99 00:04:14,260 --> 00:04:15,820 You asked, oh, what are you up to these days? 100 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:16,480 That's another thing. 101 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:18,490 I wanna raise money for a documentary. 102 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,340 On why there's so many outsized, there should be 10 x the amount 103 00:04:24,340 --> 00:04:28,810 of funny Americans as there are Canadians, but there's not, the 104 00:04:28,810 --> 00:04:32,200 amount of famous Canadians that are comedians is just crazy. 105 00:04:32,650 --> 00:04:35,020 Um, and I think it's very similar for, for the British. 106 00:04:35,020 --> 00:04:39,310 So anyway, big rant to say I'm pumped to talk about e-commerce today. 107 00:04:39,414 --> 00:04:41,335 Yeah, that's absolutely. 108 00:04:41,724 --> 00:04:42,325 And comedy. 109 00:04:42,325 --> 00:04:43,854 We should just do the comedy podcast. 110 00:04:44,245 --> 00:04:44,485 Yeah. 111 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:46,284 Do you know a chap called Peter Murphy? 112 00:04:46,284 --> 00:04:46,286 Lewis? 113 00:04:48,205 --> 00:04:50,065 Oh man, sounds so familiar. 114 00:04:50,065 --> 00:04:52,525 And I, I'm, I'm, I'm blanking. 115 00:04:52,570 --> 00:04:53,980 Not to put you on the spot, but, 116 00:04:53,980 --> 00:04:59,140 um, Peter is brilliant at the whole documentary type stuff and he, um, he, 117 00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:05,110 he helps, he, he makes documentaries specifically about nursing homes and 118 00:05:05,110 --> 00:05:09,820 puts 'em on LinkedIn and, um, puts a story on LinkedIn and he, he just, 119 00:05:09,820 --> 00:05:12,790 Peter just fascinates me with the way that he thinks and, and stuff. 120 00:05:12,790 --> 00:05:15,670 So he, you don't want him to do a documentary connect with Peter because 121 00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:17,320 he would be an interesting chap to talk 122 00:05:17,470 --> 00:05:19,510 Well, you heard it here first, folks. 123 00:05:19,645 --> 00:05:20,275 yeah, yeah. 124 00:05:20,380 --> 00:05:23,140 when you see this happening and coming together, it's gonna be like, oh. 125 00:05:25,315 --> 00:05:26,455 It just happened here. 126 00:05:26,905 --> 00:05:29,095 So let's talk about e-commerce Jordan, 'cause that's what 127 00:05:29,095 --> 00:05:30,625 we do first and foremost. 128 00:05:30,625 --> 00:05:31,915 Um, social Commerce club. 129 00:05:31,915 --> 00:05:33,115 Let's talk about that. 130 00:05:33,115 --> 00:05:33,925 That's what you do. 131 00:05:33,925 --> 00:05:35,065 You've got your agency. 132 00:05:35,065 --> 00:05:36,955 Let's give people a little bit background about you. 133 00:05:37,165 --> 00:05:40,255 'cause this is the second time you've been on the show from memory or the 134 00:05:40,255 --> 00:05:40,585 third. 135 00:05:40,670 --> 00:05:40,990 It. 136 00:05:40,990 --> 00:05:41,230 is. 137 00:05:41,230 --> 00:05:44,980 And it was a long time ago, Matt, like you and I met a long 138 00:05:45,010 --> 00:05:47,170 and we met through your podcast. 139 00:05:47,395 --> 00:05:47,575 Yeah. 140 00:05:47,575 --> 00:05:47,890 We did. 141 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:48,310 Um. 142 00:05:49,195 --> 00:05:52,675 So there was a time actually where I was growing a previous agency. 143 00:05:52,675 --> 00:05:53,785 It was called Mindful Marketing. 144 00:05:54,325 --> 00:05:58,795 And I, I was growing that agency and here were the two ways that I grew it. 145 00:05:58,945 --> 00:06:02,725 I went on podcasts and I had people on my podcasts and I would have 146 00:06:02,725 --> 00:06:05,635 like multiple people and I would just have brands come on, right? 147 00:06:05,665 --> 00:06:06,745 And that's how I grew. 148 00:06:06,895 --> 00:06:09,715 And then I would go, because I owned brands and I would go 149 00:06:09,715 --> 00:06:10,645 on other people's podcasts. 150 00:06:10,645 --> 00:06:12,115 And so I'm sure I just reached out to you. 151 00:06:12,115 --> 00:06:16,555 I think I went on something like a hundred podcasts in one year and it was crazy. 152 00:06:16,555 --> 00:06:16,830 The amount. 153 00:06:17,340 --> 00:06:21,690 Of conversations that I had and the amount of just like, just 154 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:26,130 incredible, um, insight that I was able to gather from, from both sides. 155 00:06:27,030 --> 00:06:28,740 And so that's really where we met. 156 00:06:28,770 --> 00:06:32,730 And, and you know, from there, there was a couple iterations of the agency. 157 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:33,719 I'm gonna be honest with you guys. 158 00:06:33,719 --> 00:06:35,430 I hate running an agency. 159 00:06:36,180 --> 00:06:37,800 I hate having 160 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:38,710 and me both, bro. 161 00:06:38,710 --> 00:06:39,400 You and me both. 162 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:44,370 I like, I, you know, Friday I had to have this emergency meeting with my team 163 00:06:44,370 --> 00:06:46,890 because somebody on our team was stealing. 164 00:06:47,469 --> 00:06:49,180 Like, I'm like, how? 165 00:06:49,210 --> 00:06:53,020 Like you are and, and of course it was an American, of course. 166 00:06:53,140 --> 00:06:57,849 You know, it's like only times I've ever been sued Americans. 167 00:06:58,239 --> 00:06:59,200 We would never do that. 168 00:06:59,200 --> 00:06:59,590 You know? 169 00:06:59,830 --> 00:07:00,250 yeah. 170 00:07:00,340 --> 00:07:03,070 No, we'll just have a conversation and just like normal people would. 171 00:07:03,075 --> 00:07:03,315 Yeah. 172 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:03,760 Exactly. 173 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,039 You'd just be like, oh, hey, should we just talk about it? 174 00:07:06,039 --> 00:07:15,880 Like, so, so I, I don't love, so what I love is growing something and, and. 175 00:07:16,300 --> 00:07:19,180 Envisioning something and then handing it off to people. 176 00:07:19,210 --> 00:07:21,640 What I don't like is the one to 10, right. 177 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:22,810 I love zero to one. 178 00:07:22,990 --> 00:07:26,470 So my team hates me because I'm always coming up with new things. 179 00:07:26,470 --> 00:07:26,740 Right. 180 00:07:26,740 --> 00:07:28,540 And new, new ways to go. 181 00:07:28,540 --> 00:07:32,590 And so this social commerce club was an iteration of that, right. 182 00:07:32,590 --> 00:07:39,550 And what I saw was a new way that people shop and, and I'll tell you how I saw it. 183 00:07:39,550 --> 00:07:42,460 I watched my wife on her phone and I watched her scrolling. 184 00:07:43,105 --> 00:07:48,415 And I watched the steps that she would take while scrolling reels to then go 185 00:07:48,415 --> 00:07:50,545 over and straight to go buy things. 186 00:07:50,545 --> 00:07:52,825 And I was like, this is really interesting. 187 00:07:52,855 --> 00:07:56,095 And then I saw her on TikTok and I saw the same thing happening and I was 188 00:07:56,095 --> 00:07:58,435 like, oh, this is that on steroids. 189 00:07:59,094 --> 00:08:02,635 Then I started to watch other people on TikTok and the way that they were 190 00:08:02,635 --> 00:08:08,455 interacting, and I always thought to myself, why is TikTok so ridiculously 191 00:08:08,455 --> 00:08:10,195 bad at converting customers? 192 00:08:10,375 --> 00:08:10,645 Right? 193 00:08:10,645 --> 00:08:14,185 Because we, we all know from post, sorry, not from post purchase 194 00:08:14,185 --> 00:08:16,315 survey, from attribution, right? 195 00:08:16,795 --> 00:08:18,685 It's, it's virtually a zero. 196 00:08:18,745 --> 00:08:22,974 Like you can get, maybe get a one return on ad spend on TikTok maybe, right? 197 00:08:22,974 --> 00:08:25,645 Like with, with e-comm, it's very, very difficult. 198 00:08:27,145 --> 00:08:30,565 When TikTok shop came around, I thought, okay, this is kind of interesting. 199 00:08:30,565 --> 00:08:34,555 And at first when people told me about it, I was like, well, this is just, this is 200 00:08:34,555 --> 00:08:37,584 just like meta shops like big deal, right? 201 00:08:37,584 --> 00:08:39,564 Like one other place for people to check out. 202 00:08:39,864 --> 00:08:43,405 This does not change the game until I realized what they were doing. 203 00:08:44,890 --> 00:08:49,510 And when I realized that influencers on the platform, which I'm now going 204 00:08:49,510 --> 00:08:51,699 to from now on call creators, right? 205 00:08:51,699 --> 00:08:53,530 We're gonna call them creators, not influencers. 206 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:57,699 I think they're like salespeople on the platform when they're incentivized 207 00:08:58,630 --> 00:09:02,650 to get, uh, they're incentivized to make a sale on the platform. 208 00:09:02,650 --> 00:09:03,915 I realized, oh my gosh. 209 00:09:04,915 --> 00:09:08,305 Affiliate marketing is finally here in e-comm, right? 210 00:09:08,305 --> 00:09:11,935 Because previously affiliate marketing just didn't really work in e-comm 211 00:09:12,175 --> 00:09:13,524 in the same sort of way, right? 212 00:09:13,524 --> 00:09:16,374 Like the, the attribution was so bad that it just didn't 213 00:09:16,374 --> 00:09:17,874 follow in the same sort of way. 214 00:09:18,984 --> 00:09:21,685 And I realized, oh my gosh, this, this changes everything. 215 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,314 Yeah, it's um. 216 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:29,635 It is interesting listening to you talk about, number one, I'm not a big 217 00:09:29,635 --> 00:09:31,285 fan of running agencies myself, right? 218 00:09:31,285 --> 00:09:32,215 So I just don't do it. 219 00:09:32,455 --> 00:09:34,015 Uh, just let, let other people do that. 220 00:09:34,645 --> 00:09:36,415 I used to be the zero to one guy. 221 00:09:36,655 --> 00:09:38,575 Um, but I don't do that anymore. 222 00:09:38,815 --> 00:09:41,185 Um, I'm much better at helping companies. 223 00:09:41,875 --> 00:09:43,375 Who are already well established. 224 00:09:43,465 --> 00:09:43,915 Do you know what I mean? 225 00:09:43,915 --> 00:09:44,065 And, 226 00:09:44,065 --> 00:09:46,735 and I'd, so we've started doing this whole acquisition thing. 227 00:09:46,795 --> 00:09:49,825 Um, so we'd, there's some big announcements come in. 228 00:09:49,825 --> 00:09:53,125 Some companies we've, we've, uh, one company in particular we, we've sort 229 00:09:53,125 --> 00:09:56,785 of acquired recently and, and, and, and, and invested in, which is great. 230 00:09:57,625 --> 00:10:02,065 So it's, it's interesting listening to the evolution of this, and I'm, 231 00:10:02,065 --> 00:10:03,985 I'm smiling because I just couldn't. 232 00:10:04,584 --> 00:10:06,415 You are watching your wife shop on TikTok. 233 00:10:06,444 --> 00:10:08,545 I don't even know if my wife knows what TikTok is. 234 00:10:08,545 --> 00:10:08,874 Right. 235 00:10:08,874 --> 00:10:09,084 So 236 00:10:11,785 --> 00:10:13,285 I think that just might be an age thing. 237 00:10:13,285 --> 00:10:14,785 I think you're a younger family than we are. 238 00:10:15,444 --> 00:10:19,074 Um, but I, I, I get what you're saying about affiliate marketing 239 00:10:19,074 --> 00:10:22,584 because apart from the, the outliers, you know, there's always a story 240 00:10:22,584 --> 00:10:24,535 of one person that did really well, 241 00:10:24,685 --> 00:10:28,134 you know, and every affiliate software company tells you that story and 242 00:10:28,134 --> 00:10:29,334 you think, well, I'm gonna kill it. 243 00:10:29,334 --> 00:10:30,864 And it's, it can be quite tricky. 244 00:10:31,614 --> 00:10:32,364 I'm curious. 245 00:10:33,045 --> 00:10:36,625 Um, then what you have, because this is going back to what you said about 246 00:10:36,834 --> 00:10:40,165 LinkedIn, a lot of what you post on LinkedIn is about killing it with, um, 247 00:10:40,285 --> 00:10:44,395 TikTok shop, um, social commerce is, you know, your social commerce club 248 00:10:44,395 --> 00:10:49,405 connected to that, changing it from, uh, to, to creators rather than influencers. 249 00:10:50,604 --> 00:10:51,295 are you seeing? 250 00:10:53,245 --> 00:10:55,944 So, here's the crazy thing that I'm seeing, right? 251 00:10:56,094 --> 00:10:58,675 Number one, so we work with a lot of big brands, right? 252 00:10:58,675 --> 00:11:01,885 So a lot of household names, uh, out there who are trying 253 00:11:01,885 --> 00:11:03,084 to get onto social commerce. 254 00:11:03,084 --> 00:11:06,175 Now, one of the main reasons that we are doing that is, is 255 00:11:06,235 --> 00:11:08,005 we're at Social Commerce Club. 256 00:11:08,005 --> 00:11:09,714 We just happen to be the adults in the room, right? 257 00:11:09,925 --> 00:11:13,045 There's a lot of agencies out there that sprung up from people who understood 258 00:11:13,074 --> 00:11:14,694 TikTok but didn't understand business. 259 00:11:15,114 --> 00:11:17,664 And so that was really difficult, right? 260 00:11:17,664 --> 00:11:22,794 For a lot of, a lot of brands got burned by some small agencies and, uh, and not 261 00:11:22,794 --> 00:11:25,974 saying that, that these, some of these young guys couldn't do it, but it just 262 00:11:25,974 --> 00:11:27,954 wasn't the same as them coming to us. 263 00:11:28,134 --> 00:11:33,174 I think that the other thing too that we saw is everyone on Amazon wanted to 264 00:11:33,174 --> 00:11:36,234 hop onto TikTok shop because they're like, oh, this is the next big thing. 265 00:11:36,414 --> 00:11:41,124 The problem was the Amazon people actually didn't do very well because 266 00:11:41,364 --> 00:11:44,034 Amazon is a demand capture channel. 267 00:11:44,439 --> 00:11:47,589 TikTok shop is a demand gen channel, right? 268 00:11:47,589 --> 00:11:50,889 And so us that were in direct to consumer and started in direct to consumer. 269 00:11:50,889 --> 00:11:53,859 And remember, my brands that I've owned over the years are all 270 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,810 basically in apparel and accessories. 271 00:11:56,590 --> 00:11:56,920 Right. 272 00:11:57,130 --> 00:12:00,010 Apparel and accessories in D two C is playing on hard mode. 273 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,630 I, I never really realized until, until I, I went and played in some other 274 00:12:04,630 --> 00:12:08,620 industries and I was like, oh man, it'd be so nice to be able to do problem solution. 275 00:12:08,890 --> 00:12:12,640 Like, I would love that apparel and accessories do not do problem solution. 276 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:13,990 That is not how it works. 277 00:12:14,410 --> 00:12:19,990 And so what, what I, what I realized is that TikTok shop. 278 00:12:20,469 --> 00:12:25,810 Was this whole new demand generation channel, and it was finally the way that 279 00:12:25,810 --> 00:12:31,239 we could create some virality around products and test products in the market. 280 00:12:31,540 --> 00:12:34,599 Now, I, I wanna talk about one, one brand specifically 281 00:12:34,599 --> 00:12:35,680 here, and this is a shoe brand. 282 00:12:36,099 --> 00:12:39,969 They came to us like about, you know, what was a little, little less than 283 00:12:39,969 --> 00:12:44,020 a year ago, they came to us, zero searches on the platform, right? 284 00:12:44,050 --> 00:12:45,879 This is a very well known shoe brand. 285 00:12:45,879 --> 00:12:47,800 Just so you guys know, like billion dollar brand. 286 00:12:48,145 --> 00:12:48,505 Yeah. 287 00:12:48,819 --> 00:12:50,949 They had zero searches on the platform whatsoever. 288 00:12:51,370 --> 00:12:52,505 They came to us and they said, Hey, look. 289 00:12:53,245 --> 00:12:56,724 We know you guys have this crawl, walk, run sort of approach. 290 00:12:56,785 --> 00:12:57,714 We just wanna run. 291 00:12:57,954 --> 00:12:59,275 We're like, okay, we can do that. 292 00:12:59,334 --> 00:13:00,145 Here's the budget. 293 00:13:00,145 --> 00:13:00,415 Right? 294 00:13:00,415 --> 00:13:02,395 And so we, you know, it was like a seven figure budget. 295 00:13:02,395 --> 00:13:03,685 We're like, this is what we're gonna have to do. 296 00:13:04,495 --> 00:13:10,765 And so we did, and we absolutely ran, and they went from zero searches. 297 00:13:10,765 --> 00:13:12,415 I think we started with them in August. 298 00:13:12,415 --> 00:13:16,765 It ended up being, and they went from zero searches to, in a two week period 299 00:13:16,765 --> 00:13:20,305 in December, 800,000 searches on TikTok. 300 00:13:20,830 --> 00:13:21,190 Wow. 301 00:13:21,444 --> 00:13:22,734 So think about that, right? 302 00:13:23,034 --> 00:13:26,305 They unlocked this entire new generation, right? 303 00:13:26,305 --> 00:13:29,694 This, these were boomer shoes, just so you guys know before, right? 304 00:13:29,694 --> 00:13:32,754 And they locked this entirely new generation. 305 00:13:33,354 --> 00:13:37,974 And on top of that, we were just testing a bunch of different shoe styles, right? 306 00:13:37,974 --> 00:13:41,364 So we would, we would sample out these different shoe styles to creators and 307 00:13:41,364 --> 00:13:43,284 just see what they did with them, right? 308 00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:47,319 Basically eliminating, this is the crazy thing, Matt, right? 309 00:13:47,499 --> 00:13:53,079 Completely eliminating the need for them to do any research because you, 310 00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:56,140 you seed the product out there and then see what people do with it. 311 00:13:56,140 --> 00:13:59,319 And so there, there was one shoe in particular that they, that 312 00:13:59,349 --> 00:14:00,550 they thought was just a dog. 313 00:14:00,550 --> 00:14:01,239 And they're like, yeah, sure. 314 00:14:01,239 --> 00:14:02,229 Go ahead and sample it out. 315 00:14:02,469 --> 00:14:03,790 What ended up selling? 316 00:14:05,170 --> 00:14:08,500 It ended up completely selling out because it went viral on TikTok shop. 317 00:14:08,770 --> 00:14:11,260 Lo and behold, they ended up doing a collab with Sydnee 318 00:14:11,260 --> 00:14:13,390 Sweeney after on that shoe. 319 00:14:13,540 --> 00:14:16,119 And Sydnee Sweeney is, you know, having her her day. 320 00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:16,479 Right. 321 00:14:16,839 --> 00:14:18,489 And it, it was just incredible. 322 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,770 So like, it went from like nothing. 323 00:14:21,079 --> 00:14:24,290 To Sydney Sweeney level, which I think would kind of be at the peak 324 00:14:24,319 --> 00:14:26,689 of, of pop culture right now, right? 325 00:14:26,930 --> 00:14:31,849 That's how insane TikTok shop is and how, how much power there is in TikTok shop. 326 00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:36,349 Now, the reason why I think that shop in particular is very interesting is because 327 00:14:36,349 --> 00:14:40,969 people, the, the kinds of posts that people make are about the product, right? 328 00:14:41,119 --> 00:14:42,020 There's no like. 329 00:14:42,594 --> 00:14:45,685 This is not like general brand influencer marketing. 330 00:14:45,714 --> 00:14:47,604 I have always hated working with influencers. 331 00:14:47,604 --> 00:14:48,385 I'm gonna be honest with you. 332 00:14:48,385 --> 00:14:51,775 Like the majority of influencers I just hate working with because it's 333 00:14:51,775 --> 00:14:56,515 very like, you know, mean and a bikini, like having this thing here, right? 334 00:14:56,515 --> 00:14:58,285 Like, oh, here's the product, right? 335 00:14:58,285 --> 00:15:01,405 But really what you're selling is your bikini, you know, like, or your body. 336 00:15:01,854 --> 00:15:06,564 And that to me just isn't, isn't great marketing versus TikTok shop. 337 00:15:06,594 --> 00:15:07,224 I will tell you. 338 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:10,719 These people are trying to sell the product, right? 339 00:15:10,750 --> 00:15:15,459 I call it the MLM, the multi-level marketing of our generation, right? 340 00:15:15,459 --> 00:15:19,060 Because these people, all that they are incentivized to do is sell the product. 341 00:15:19,060 --> 00:15:21,609 And so what they have to do is get really, really creative and start to 342 00:15:21,609 --> 00:15:23,500 think like, okay, what is gonna work? 343 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,680 And sometimes, sometimes it has to be non-salesy and sometimes they just 344 00:15:26,709 --> 00:15:30,400 kind of slip it in, or sometimes they tell a long story meandering and then 345 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,420 be like, Hey, by the way, if you like this, click the link in my, in my. 346 00:15:35,215 --> 00:15:37,225 Here on this TikTok. 347 00:15:37,885 --> 00:15:42,565 Um, that's why it's so cool that like, that's why I'm obsessed with it. 348 00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:44,319 Yeah. 349 00:15:44,890 --> 00:15:48,579 And it's, it's, it is crazy, isn't it? 350 00:15:48,610 --> 00:15:49,750 That this is what's happening. 351 00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:53,771 But I'm curious, Jordan, I, I mean, I love hearing your stories and I, I, I 352 00:15:53,776 --> 00:15:55,324 love the stories that you tell on TikTok. 353 00:15:55,985 --> 00:16:01,089 Um, how do I, how do I think about TikTok, Ben, if I'm not 354 00:16:01,089 --> 00:16:02,380 a billion dollar shoe brand? 355 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,219 That knows Sydney and has got seven figures to spend. 356 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,869 Um, is this something that is purely reserved for the billion dollar brands 357 00:16:10,869 --> 00:16:15,189 or is this something actually with very little money you can actually 358 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:16,750 do some really interesting things? 359 00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:19,119 So it's both, right? 360 00:16:19,119 --> 00:16:21,819 So the reason I bring up big brands is because big brands are 361 00:16:21,819 --> 00:16:24,249 actually the ones that are scared to go on the platform, right? 362 00:16:24,249 --> 00:16:26,530 They're really scared that they're going to get that. 363 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:26,739 There's. 364 00:16:27,175 --> 00:16:29,425 Yeah, that, that there's gonna be content out there, right? 365 00:16:29,425 --> 00:16:31,464 The big brands are really scared that there's gonna be content out 366 00:16:31,464 --> 00:16:34,285 there that they don't approve of, and they wanna approve everything. 367 00:16:34,285 --> 00:16:36,324 The problem is they can't, right? 368 00:16:36,535 --> 00:16:38,680 Like if there's any marketing execs listening to this, it's like. 369 00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:42,789 In the world of social commerce, you cannot approve everything, right? 370 00:16:42,789 --> 00:16:46,869 You need to be okay with people going out there and holding your product and 371 00:16:46,869 --> 00:16:48,430 saying some things about it, right? 372 00:16:48,430 --> 00:16:50,409 It's just, it's just the way, it's Matt. 373 00:16:50,409 --> 00:16:53,289 Let's talk about smaller brands, because I think that's where things 374 00:16:53,289 --> 00:16:54,849 get really, really interesting. 375 00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:59,529 So let's talk about what it was like before to seed product. 376 00:16:59,864 --> 00:17:02,894 Okay, so this is what seeding looked like before. 377 00:17:03,194 --> 00:17:07,065 I'm going to randomly reach out to a bunch of influencers, right, 378 00:17:07,065 --> 00:17:09,735 using whatever tools are out there. 379 00:17:10,214 --> 00:17:12,855 Um, you know, Shopify collabs is one. 380 00:17:13,125 --> 00:17:15,165 Uh, social snowball is another one. 381 00:17:15,225 --> 00:17:16,305 Um, ral. 382 00:17:16,395 --> 00:17:19,755 Um, these are good, these are great tools that are out there, right? 383 00:17:20,775 --> 00:17:23,835 Uh, the problem is I'm going to randomly reach out to these people. 384 00:17:23,850 --> 00:17:23,890 Mm-hmm. 385 00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:27,670 Right that I don't have any sort of connection with and are not 386 00:17:27,670 --> 00:17:31,510 incentivized whatsoever to post for me and say, Hey, can I send you a gift? 387 00:17:31,635 --> 00:17:32,055 Mm-hmm. 388 00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:35,500 And then you send them a gift and you're like one of a hundred people 389 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:36,670 that are sending them a gift. 390 00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:39,130 They have no reason to post for you. 391 00:17:39,820 --> 00:17:40,150 Right. 392 00:17:40,510 --> 00:17:43,600 Nor do they even have like, if anything, here's what you're gonna get. 393 00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:46,635 You're gonna get like, oh my gosh, thanks so much. 394 00:17:47,635 --> 00:17:50,125 Blank blank, whatever your, your brand is, thanks so much 395 00:17:50,125 --> 00:17:51,355 for sending this over to me. 396 00:17:51,685 --> 00:17:56,185 Um, and it's gonna be in their Instagram story and like 50 people are gonna see it, 397 00:17:56,785 --> 00:17:57,145 right? 398 00:17:57,325 --> 00:18:00,415 That's about as much as you're going to get from, from an influencer. 399 00:18:00,535 --> 00:18:03,205 And then what you can do after that is start following up and trying to 400 00:18:03,205 --> 00:18:05,635 nurture them and, and all of that, right? 401 00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:11,035 So that's, that's what seeding was like before and, and still is, right? 402 00:18:11,035 --> 00:18:12,385 Like there's still a lot of 403 00:18:12,655 --> 00:18:13,475 Still can be that way. 404 00:18:13,475 --> 00:18:13,715 Yeah. 405 00:18:13,715 --> 00:18:13,995 Yeah, yeah. 406 00:18:14,585 --> 00:18:15,400 A absolutely. 407 00:18:15,460 --> 00:18:17,260 And I'm not saying that that's terrible. 408 00:18:17,260 --> 00:18:21,400 I think that there's some really, there's some ways that work a lot better, right? 409 00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:25,000 Uh, I'm, I am all about building relationships, like actual relationships 410 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,490 with people in that and white listing and all of that kind of stuff. 411 00:18:27,490 --> 00:18:29,230 But that's this side. 412 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,660 Now let's talk about what that looks like on TikTok shop. 413 00:18:31,690 --> 00:18:33,850 Well, on TikTok shop each. 414 00:18:34,645 --> 00:18:39,805 Uh, each creator has to, they're incentivized to post for you, not 415 00:18:39,805 --> 00:18:42,805 just because they're making money, but because if they don't post for 416 00:18:42,805 --> 00:18:44,935 you, it goes against their score. 417 00:18:45,235 --> 00:18:45,534 Right. 418 00:18:45,534 --> 00:18:46,555 As a creator. 419 00:18:47,125 --> 00:18:47,425 Right. 420 00:18:47,485 --> 00:18:50,544 And so when we go to reach out to creators, we're only reaching 421 00:18:50,544 --> 00:18:53,930 out to creators who have an 80% plus fulfillment rate. 422 00:18:54,745 --> 00:18:58,465 So that means eight out of 10 packages that they get, they make content for. 423 00:18:58,675 --> 00:19:03,055 We're always aiming for every, every sample that we send out to get five 424 00:19:03,055 --> 00:19:05,034 pieces of content out of them as well. 425 00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:05,470 Right? 426 00:19:06,175 --> 00:19:07,825 So think about that, right? 427 00:19:07,855 --> 00:19:08,815 These are real. 428 00:19:09,534 --> 00:19:14,155 Life videos, TikTok videos that are going out there that have 429 00:19:14,155 --> 00:19:16,044 the chance of virality, right. 430 00:19:16,044 --> 00:19:19,435 That are going out that we know that eight out of 10 of them for 431 00:19:19,435 --> 00:19:21,475 sure we're going to get right. 432 00:19:21,475 --> 00:19:23,544 Whereas like usually it's nine outta 10, right? 433 00:19:23,544 --> 00:19:25,465 That we're, that we're actually getting that many videos. 434 00:19:25,735 --> 00:19:29,425 But we could, for those 10 samples, potentially get between 40 and 50 videos. 435 00:19:30,415 --> 00:19:31,795 That's the wild thing, right? 436 00:19:31,795 --> 00:19:35,545 We're getting that many, that many potential pieces of content that is 437 00:19:35,785 --> 00:19:38,935 like, that is life altering for a brand. 438 00:19:38,935 --> 00:19:41,545 When they can get that many pieces of content, then we use 439 00:19:41,545 --> 00:19:42,685 other tools out there, right? 440 00:19:42,685 --> 00:19:44,485 So there's some great social listening tools. 441 00:19:44,754 --> 00:19:46,675 I love Funnel, um, for this. 442 00:19:46,975 --> 00:19:49,855 So funnel then comes and takes all of that content. 443 00:19:49,855 --> 00:19:53,365 It does the social listening and it finds, and it's one of the only 444 00:19:53,365 --> 00:19:56,515 ones that can actually capture TikTok shop content for some reason. 445 00:19:57,025 --> 00:19:57,715 Don't ask me why. 446 00:19:57,895 --> 00:19:58,435 I have no idea. 447 00:19:58,645 --> 00:20:00,505 I'm not a technical guy, nor do I want to be. 448 00:20:00,925 --> 00:20:05,095 Um, every time I think about like I'm gonna start a software 449 00:20:05,095 --> 00:20:06,805 company and I'm like, no I'm not. 450 00:20:06,985 --> 00:20:08,185 No, no, no, I'm not. 451 00:20:08,290 --> 00:20:08,680 done that. 452 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:09,550 You don't want to do that? 453 00:20:09,550 --> 00:20:09,850 Yeah, yeah. 454 00:20:09,855 --> 00:20:10,355 Just move on. 455 00:20:10,915 --> 00:20:11,155 Yeah. 456 00:20:12,115 --> 00:20:12,175 Um. 457 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:12,340 For, 458 00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:18,970 But, uh, uh, all of that aside, um, what FU does is it actually listens 459 00:20:18,970 --> 00:20:21,730 for that content and then you can actually download that content now. 460 00:20:21,730 --> 00:20:24,880 Well, what we do at Social Commerce Club is very, very sneaky. 461 00:20:25,210 --> 00:20:29,980 When somebody becomes a, an influencer in Social Commerce club, or sorry, a 462 00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:31,720 creator, I dunno why I said the I word 463 00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:32,170 yeah, 464 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:32,655 Um, when they. 465 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:32,950 to go. 466 00:20:34,555 --> 00:20:38,875 When they become, uh, a creator, uh, WIS with Social Commerce Club, we actually 467 00:20:38,965 --> 00:20:43,585 ask them if we have permission to use any of their content across other channels. 468 00:20:43,915 --> 00:20:47,635 The majority of them say Yes, so we can then download that piece of content 469 00:20:47,635 --> 00:20:51,175 and use it wherever we want, as long as they've given us permission to do that. 470 00:20:51,415 --> 00:20:54,264 So that's why we win at Social Commerce Club because we can then take that 471 00:20:54,264 --> 00:20:58,014 content and we try to work with all the brands that we work with. 472 00:20:58,014 --> 00:21:01,105 And the way that we've set our pricing up at Social Commerce Club is that we, we. 473 00:21:01,585 --> 00:21:04,795 We incentivize them to work with us on all channels, right? 474 00:21:04,795 --> 00:21:09,115 Not just TikTok shop, because we really believe that TikTok shop is a, is an 475 00:21:09,295 --> 00:21:11,875 integrated platform with all of it. 476 00:21:11,875 --> 00:21:14,845 It's an incredible awareness channel, the best awareness channel that you can 477 00:21:14,845 --> 00:21:17,755 possibly have right now for a small brand. 478 00:21:18,355 --> 00:21:18,745 Right? 479 00:21:19,555 --> 00:21:22,825 So that's what I'm obsessed with right now when it comes to social commerce. 480 00:21:24,065 --> 00:21:25,180 It is really interesting, isn't it? 481 00:21:25,180 --> 00:21:25,690 And I. 482 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,680 There is something about TikTok. 483 00:21:30,370 --> 00:21:34,870 I mean it being constantly in the press because of our American friends 484 00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:37,780 and, and you know, the Chinese connection and all that sort of thing. 485 00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:45,400 Um, there is something about TikTok, wait, you don't have to have any real 486 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,790 major followers and you can post a video and 2000 people will see it. 487 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:52,210 Whereas if I post a reel on my personal Instagram account. 488 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,909 A hundred people might, 200 people do. 489 00:21:54,909 --> 00:21:55,629 I mean, it seems 490 00:21:55,629 --> 00:22:03,909 that tiktoks has, at this moment in time, they have totally captured, um, help. 491 00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:06,580 I, I don't, I dunno how they do it and how and why Instagram 492 00:22:06,580 --> 00:22:07,510 don't, Do you know what I mean? 493 00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:11,020 I don't understand why you don't get the same sort of impact on 494 00:22:11,020 --> 00:22:12,639 Instagram that you get on TikTok. 495 00:22:12,669 --> 00:22:15,370 There's something about that algorithm, there's something about that audience 496 00:22:15,370 --> 00:22:16,899 who is, who are watching those videos. 497 00:22:17,415 --> 00:22:18,220 Well, it's the point. 498 00:22:18,220 --> 00:22:19,570 It's the point of the platform, right? 499 00:22:19,570 --> 00:22:22,270 Like, like Instagram is still a follower driven. 500 00:22:22,975 --> 00:22:23,635 Algorithm. 501 00:22:24,264 --> 00:22:24,534 Right? 502 00:22:24,534 --> 00:22:27,655 And so it still is using your followers as part of that algorithm. 503 00:22:27,655 --> 00:22:30,534 Now you can get virality on Instagram, right? 504 00:22:30,534 --> 00:22:32,875 Like it used to be where you, you would never even be able to 505 00:22:32,875 --> 00:22:34,165 show up in somebody else's feed. 506 00:22:34,165 --> 00:22:35,935 Somebody had to follow you to be able to see you. 507 00:22:36,415 --> 00:22:39,985 Um, whereas now things are, it's more of like a half and half versus. 508 00:22:40,615 --> 00:22:43,315 TikTok is a fully content driven algorithm. 509 00:22:43,315 --> 00:22:45,895 Let, let me tell you just like a quick story here. 510 00:22:45,985 --> 00:22:50,695 One of our creators, uh, at Social Commerce Club, she has less than 511 00:22:50,695 --> 00:22:57,475 10,000 followers and she generated $250,000 for a brand last month. 512 00:22:58,285 --> 00:22:59,605 Less than 10,000 followers. 513 00:22:59,605 --> 00:23:01,855 Like that is wild. 514 00:23:01,915 --> 00:23:04,615 She's probably making 15 to 20% commission on that. 515 00:23:04,645 --> 00:23:05,395 Just do the math. 516 00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:09,580 It's wild what these creators are making comparatively, right? 517 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,940 And people are like, well do their, do their followers wanna 518 00:23:12,940 --> 00:23:14,560 see sales content all the time? 519 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,940 It's like, doesn't matter. 520 00:23:16,150 --> 00:23:19,180 She doesn't care, she doesn't have followers. 521 00:23:19,420 --> 00:23:23,350 She's just selling stuff online and doing a really, really good job of it. 522 00:23:23,790 --> 00:23:24,080 Yeah. 523 00:23:24,085 --> 00:23:24,415 Yeah. 524 00:23:24,504 --> 00:23:25,375 That's really interesting. 525 00:23:25,615 --> 00:23:29,575 So in effect, there's two i there's two route we could go down almost, isn't it? 526 00:23:29,575 --> 00:23:33,805 I could, I can hear my teenage daughter saying, Matt, uh, dad, dad, ask 527 00:23:33,805 --> 00:23:35,725 Jordan how I become a creator, right? 528 00:23:36,565 --> 00:23:38,995 And there's the, there's all the other people listening to the 529 00:23:38,995 --> 00:23:40,945 show going, well, this is great. 530 00:23:40,945 --> 00:23:43,855 So how do I, how do I get started with this? 531 00:23:43,855 --> 00:23:45,955 If I, I mean, I know people have been talking about it, it's 532 00:23:45,955 --> 00:23:47,995 probably the question I get asked. 533 00:23:48,985 --> 00:23:52,045 More than any other question about marketing at the moment 534 00:23:52,045 --> 00:23:53,785 is how do I do TikTok shop? 535 00:23:54,235 --> 00:23:56,815 And to be honest with you, Jordan, I just go, listen, this is, this 536 00:23:56,815 --> 00:23:57,775 is a guy he needs to talk to. 537 00:23:57,775 --> 00:23:58,765 Here's Jordan's number. 538 00:23:58,765 --> 00:24:01,915 Just, you know, just uh, follow him on LinkedIn and, and 539 00:24:01,915 --> 00:24:03,145 connect and see what goes on. 540 00:24:03,595 --> 00:24:05,275 I was talking to a pharmaceutical company. 541 00:24:05,330 --> 00:24:08,270 Uh, two weekends ago, they're like, I think we're gonna try and do TikTok shop. 542 00:24:08,270 --> 00:24:09,320 I'm like, have you got a budget? 543 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:09,830 And they're like, yeah. 544 00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:13,580 I'm like, go give Jordan a ring because I don't think you know what you're doing. 545 00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:16,910 Just listening to them talk. 546 00:24:16,910 --> 00:24:17,570 I mean, bless them. 547 00:24:18,050 --> 00:24:19,880 But it's, it's one of those where 548 00:24:22,460 --> 00:24:24,170 it's in everybody's minds. 549 00:24:24,170 --> 00:24:29,930 But I think if, I still think a lot of people are confused 550 00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:31,610 by it, if that makes sense. 551 00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:34,550 Like where, where do people actually start with TikTok shop? 552 00:24:35,380 --> 00:24:37,000 It's a, it's a new muscle, right? 553 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,620 It's a new muscle that they're exercising. 554 00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:39,640 It is nothing like. 555 00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:42,205 Facebook ads, right? 556 00:24:42,715 --> 00:24:45,655 So first of all, uh, but before I tell you sort of like where to 557 00:24:45,655 --> 00:24:49,075 start, what I wanna tell you is the massive amount of mistakes. 558 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:53,680 That we have made right when it comes to TikTok shop, and this is why I think that 559 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,510 we succeed when it comes to this, right? 560 00:24:55,515 --> 00:24:58,360 And, and actually understanding what this channel is exactly. 561 00:24:58,870 --> 00:25:03,520 So I've been using this analogy a lot lately, uh, of a Roomba, um, in business. 562 00:25:03,580 --> 00:25:07,660 And the reason why is because we are working with iRobot, uh, and with 563 00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:09,280 Roomba, uh, which is really fun. 564 00:25:09,310 --> 00:25:11,830 And so when they came to us, I was like, oh, yeah. 565 00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:15,970 And I, I was thinking about this analogy, so I got a Roomba, um, because I was like. 566 00:25:16,195 --> 00:25:16,495 I dunno. 567 00:25:16,495 --> 00:25:17,125 I just wanted one. 568 00:25:17,125 --> 00:25:21,385 After they, they, we had a meeting with them and I was watching the 569 00:25:21,385 --> 00:25:26,815 Roomba in the, uh, the way that it maps, uh, uh, a, a place, right? 570 00:25:26,815 --> 00:25:30,655 The way that it maps a house and all of it does is it just 571 00:25:30,655 --> 00:25:32,245 like keeps hitting into things, 572 00:25:32,515 --> 00:25:32,725 right? 573 00:25:32,725 --> 00:25:33,835 It's like, oh, not there. 574 00:25:33,925 --> 00:25:34,495 Oh, not there. 575 00:25:34,555 --> 00:25:35,065 Oh, not there. 576 00:25:35,095 --> 00:25:35,425 Not there. 577 00:25:35,485 --> 00:25:36,355 Oh, perfect. 578 00:25:36,385 --> 00:25:37,015 We're gonna go here. 579 00:25:37,885 --> 00:25:40,525 In business, the best founders are Roombas. 580 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:41,500 Right. 581 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,920 They are the ones that are, that are like, oh, that didn't work. 582 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:45,970 That didn't work, that didn't work. 583 00:25:45,970 --> 00:25:46,600 That didn't work. 584 00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:48,820 You cannot have ego if you are a Roomba, 585 00:25:49,270 --> 00:25:52,390 you can't, you have to like get rid of your ego. 586 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,180 And so if you're gonna onto to TikTok shop, you have to get rid of 587 00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:58,960 your ego because 99% of the things that you do are not going to work. 588 00:25:59,140 --> 00:26:01,000 Even if you work with some of the biggest creators that are 589 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,120 out there that are producing all this money, it might not work. 590 00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:04,750 Right? 591 00:26:05,470 --> 00:26:07,720 And then most people give up and so. 592 00:26:08,185 --> 00:26:10,375 What it is, is it's the reps that you're putting in. 593 00:26:10,405 --> 00:26:13,315 And so let, let me, let me start and I'm gonna give you like a 594 00:26:13,315 --> 00:26:14,965 really simple framework to use here. 595 00:26:15,475 --> 00:26:17,275 So number one, right? 596 00:26:17,515 --> 00:26:21,955 You need to get samples out there into the hands of creators, right? 597 00:26:22,075 --> 00:26:22,615 And I'm 598 00:26:22,660 --> 00:26:25,510 you charging creators for the samples or are you sending them free? 599 00:26:25,915 --> 00:26:27,475 no, you are sending them free at first. 600 00:26:27,475 --> 00:26:29,335 You have zero leverage at first. 601 00:26:29,725 --> 00:26:32,635 I don't care if you're Nike, you have zero leverage. 602 00:26:33,490 --> 00:26:37,750 Like the creators until you have GMV on your store. 603 00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:41,440 So until you have sales on your store and specifically on the SKUs that 604 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,740 you're sending out, creators don't care because their only thing that 605 00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:46,510 they want, they don't wanna look cool. 606 00:26:46,510 --> 00:26:47,770 They're not influencers. 607 00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:49,390 They just wanna make money on your product. 608 00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:53,950 They wanna know, is this a product that I can sell a ton of if I can, awesome. 609 00:26:53,950 --> 00:26:54,130 Right? 610 00:26:54,130 --> 00:26:56,890 Like the amount of supplement brands that go on there that people are like, 611 00:26:56,890 --> 00:26:58,090 well, I can't sell the supplement. 612 00:26:58,300 --> 00:26:58,660 Right. 613 00:26:59,245 --> 00:27:02,935 If they see that other people have Right, have purchased the supplement, 614 00:27:02,935 --> 00:27:05,635 then they're more likely to take that sample and be like, okay, well I'm gonna 615 00:27:05,635 --> 00:27:07,105 make at least one video out of this. 616 00:27:07,105 --> 00:27:07,405 Right. 617 00:27:07,585 --> 00:27:12,145 Again, our goal is five at SEC, so like we're trying to get as much out there 618 00:27:12,145 --> 00:27:14,215 as as much content out there as we can. 619 00:27:14,635 --> 00:27:18,535 So my recommendation is to sample 200 samples in the first 620 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:19,100 Mm-hmm. 621 00:27:19,705 --> 00:27:23,155 So the reason being it is the 80 20. 622 00:27:23,155 --> 00:27:23,875 Of the 80 20. 623 00:27:23,875 --> 00:27:26,605 And so let me explain exactly how the math works, right? 624 00:27:26,605 --> 00:27:27,170 So we're gonna send out. 625 00:27:27,879 --> 00:27:28,750 200 samples. 626 00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:31,720 Actually, let's go with a hundred just so I can do the 80 20 really simply here. 627 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,290 So, so we're gonna send a hundred samples, right? 628 00:27:35,290 --> 00:27:39,400 So for every a hundred samples, 20 of them, 80 of the videos 629 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,139 are going to be garbage. 630 00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:41,770 Yep. 631 00:27:42,910 --> 00:27:45,610 80 of those people, you're just like, they're not gonna talk to again. 632 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,879 20 of them are gonna do something right? 633 00:27:48,879 --> 00:27:53,560 They're gonna drive a meaningful amount of traffic, they're gonna drive 634 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,120 a meaningful amount of something. 635 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:56,649 I'm not saying revenue yet. 636 00:27:57,190 --> 00:28:00,190 Out of those 20, we're gonna take the 80 20 of those. 637 00:28:00,190 --> 00:28:01,960 Now that's down to four, right? 638 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:02,980 If I, if I did my math 639 00:28:03,205 --> 00:28:03,565 you did. 640 00:28:03,595 --> 00:28:04,010 Yeah, we're good. 641 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,820 and four of those are going to potentially go viral and produce a ton of sales. 642 00:28:10,060 --> 00:28:13,180 Of those four, you're probably gonna have one that is going 643 00:28:13,180 --> 00:28:14,379 to be the absolute winner. 644 00:28:15,690 --> 00:28:16,060 Okay. 645 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:17,770 but maybe not. 646 00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:20,920 And so maybe you have to actually go to the next a hundred, right? 647 00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:23,770 This is why I recommend 200 a month for the first while. 648 00:28:23,950 --> 00:28:26,560 And so that's a lot of samples out there, right? 649 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,410 And the way that I mitigate against the idea of like, oh, man, 650 00:28:29,410 --> 00:28:31,810 that's a ton of samples, is you're going to get a ton of content. 651 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,200 And so making sure that you ask for rights to that content right away 652 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,350 is really, really important so that you can use it across channels. 653 00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:41,235 Um, I like to think of TikTok. 654 00:28:42,550 --> 00:28:44,440 As a Rubicon, right? 655 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,620 So a Rubicon is a door that you can go through one way, 656 00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:49,090 but you can't go back through, 657 00:28:49,630 --> 00:28:50,020 right? 658 00:28:50,050 --> 00:28:53,140 And so tiktoks content can go anywhere. 659 00:28:53,170 --> 00:28:55,390 It can go to Snapchat, it can go to YouTube shorts, it 660 00:28:55,390 --> 00:28:56,680 can go to Instagram, right? 661 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,940 It can go to Pinterest, but their content can't go onto TikTok. 662 00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:05,410 If you've ever tried launching Instagram content on TikTok, 663 00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:07,570 you'll realize it doesn't work. 664 00:29:08,050 --> 00:29:08,470 Right. 665 00:29:08,770 --> 00:29:11,710 Whereas tiktoks content can kind of go anywhere, which is why, again, 666 00:29:11,710 --> 00:29:13,780 I'm obsessed with TikTok content. 667 00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:17,740 I would say the only content that I'm, that I'm as equally obsessed with right 668 00:29:17,740 --> 00:29:20,320 now is Creator ad reads on YouTube. 669 00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:21,100 Right? 670 00:29:21,250 --> 00:29:24,040 These are like the opposite end of it, right? 671 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,850 So this is like the the high end social commerce, right? 672 00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:30,790 Where it's like, Hey, we want to pay for Mr. Beast, right? 673 00:29:30,790 --> 00:29:35,080 To, to do an ad read an in platform ad read versus. 674 00:29:35,470 --> 00:29:38,020 These smaller creators over here, and this is why I love the 675 00:29:38,020 --> 00:29:39,520 entire spectrum of all of it. 676 00:29:39,850 --> 00:29:41,890 Um, it's just very interesting to me. 677 00:29:41,890 --> 00:29:43,450 So, uh, yeah. 678 00:29:43,450 --> 00:29:45,160 So that's where you get started, right? 679 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:45,880 Um. 680 00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:50,320 The, the problem is, at first your listing is probably not gonna convert 681 00:29:51,130 --> 00:29:53,050 because you need to understand the pricing. 682 00:29:53,050 --> 00:29:57,340 You need to understand where exactly you are, where are your competitors? 683 00:29:57,340 --> 00:29:58,630 How are you going to differentiate? 684 00:29:58,630 --> 00:30:01,060 What's your image stack look like right? 685 00:30:01,060 --> 00:30:04,090 At first, just use your Amazon image stack, but that's probably not gonna 686 00:30:04,090 --> 00:30:05,680 cut it at the end of the day, right? 687 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,830 Um, there's a lot that goes into it, Matt. 688 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,770 No, it sounds like a, a, a real big site. 689 00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:14,770 Do you use software to help you or are you doing this all in a Google sheet? 690 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,950 Yeah, so we use, we use multiple different software. 691 00:30:17,950 --> 00:30:19,750 So I'll, I'll shout out a few of them. 692 00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:21,760 So Cdata is a really good one. 693 00:30:21,790 --> 00:30:23,140 Cdata or Fast Moss? 694 00:30:23,140 --> 00:30:25,090 I don't have an allegiance to either one of those. 695 00:30:25,150 --> 00:30:29,380 Um, CDATA is, uh, going to help you find all of your competitors, right? 696 00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:32,230 And understand sort of like what people are doing out in the space. 697 00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:32,290 Um. 698 00:30:33,255 --> 00:30:35,715 Reacher, uh, is my bot of choice. 699 00:30:35,745 --> 00:30:40,905 Um, so they're a CRM, an AI powered CRM for TikTok shop. 700 00:30:41,235 --> 00:30:43,845 Uh, so there is a lot of manual work. 701 00:30:43,905 --> 00:30:46,125 Um, we use Reacher on every single account. 702 00:30:46,125 --> 00:30:48,525 Reacher has some really cool AI integrations as well. 703 00:30:48,555 --> 00:30:51,945 I just happen to be an advisor of them as well, um, and love them. 704 00:30:51,975 --> 00:30:54,315 So everything that I tell them to build, they build. 705 00:30:54,430 --> 00:30:54,850 Mm-hmm. 706 00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:58,950 And, uh, and really, really enjoy what they're doing over there. 707 00:30:59,250 --> 00:31:02,940 Um, so those are definitely like the two big ones that, that we are using. 708 00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:07,020 And then I have to say a ton of what we're doing is we, we don't 709 00:31:07,020 --> 00:31:08,580 use sheets, but we use Airtable. 710 00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:13,530 Um, the reason why we love Airtable, uh, specifically is that Airtable, you 711 00:31:13,530 --> 00:31:15,965 can build so much AI off of Airtable. 712 00:31:16,135 --> 00:31:16,735 Yeah, I can. 713 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,310 It like if you guys are not like, if there's agency people in here, just stop 714 00:31:21,310 --> 00:31:25,150 everything you're doing and go build on Airtable because this is the future. 715 00:31:25,150 --> 00:31:27,490 Like everything plugs into Airtable as well. 716 00:31:27,490 --> 00:31:32,170 Like it's this beautiful central hub of all of your info and um, yeah, 717 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,120 def definitely recommend Airtable. 718 00:31:34,825 --> 00:31:36,295 Yeah, I, I've been playing around. 719 00:31:36,385 --> 00:31:37,585 This is not related to anything. 720 00:31:37,585 --> 00:31:39,685 Jordan, I, you may or may not found this interesting at all. 721 00:31:40,015 --> 00:31:45,265 Uh, I've been playing around with Airtable and N eight N Have you come across, 722 00:31:46,075 --> 00:31:47,005 is it N eight? 723 00:31:47,065 --> 00:31:48,055 Is it eight N eight? 724 00:31:48,235 --> 00:31:48,475 No. 725 00:31:48,475 --> 00:31:48,655 N 726 00:31:48,655 --> 00:31:49,315 eight 10, isn't it? 727 00:31:49,315 --> 00:31:49,705 Dot io? 728 00:31:49,705 --> 00:31:49,855 Yeah. 729 00:31:49,855 --> 00:31:50,095 Yeah. 730 00:31:50,515 --> 00:31:51,150 That thing is insane. 731 00:31:52,075 --> 00:31:52,945 Yes, yes. 732 00:31:52,975 --> 00:31:55,075 So there's a lot like that out there too. 733 00:31:55,105 --> 00:31:57,475 Like there's a ton of these different apps that are, that 734 00:31:57,475 --> 00:31:59,125 are helping build agents, right? 735 00:31:59,125 --> 00:32:00,325 Like these agentic apps. 736 00:32:00,775 --> 00:32:01,105 Um. 737 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,700 But you have to have a source of truth somewhere, right? 738 00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:05,650 You have to have a source of all of your data somewhere. 739 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,500 That's why Airtable is so good, because you're like, where? 740 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:09,160 Exactly. 741 00:32:09,310 --> 00:32:12,370 Like, like you can get it to build all this stuff, but unless you've 742 00:32:12,370 --> 00:32:14,290 got the data, it's kind of hard. 743 00:32:14,620 --> 00:32:15,129 Yeah. 744 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:15,610 Yeah. 745 00:32:15,610 --> 00:32:16,330 Super true. 746 00:32:16,390 --> 00:32:16,990 Super true. 747 00:32:17,230 --> 00:32:19,330 No, I very much a fan. 748 00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:20,290 Very much a fan. 749 00:32:20,290 --> 00:32:24,070 And even for a Luddite like me, I can get my head around it, which is quite helpful. 750 00:32:25,930 --> 00:32:27,670 I am becoming more of a Luddite these days. 751 00:32:27,670 --> 00:32:33,010 Matt, like I use this app called Opal on my phone that blocks basically 752 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,750 every app that I love to use. 753 00:32:35,139 --> 00:32:38,950 Um, and then I also put my phone to, uh, grayscale throughout the day. 754 00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:42,340 So like even on business days, I don't have Slack. 755 00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:46,030 I can't get into Slack, I can't get into like anything on my phone. 756 00:32:46,990 --> 00:32:48,310 LinkedIn, nothing. 757 00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:51,610 And so I have to come to my computer if I wanna do something because 758 00:32:52,060 --> 00:32:53,620 it was just, it was just becoming too much. 759 00:32:53,620 --> 00:32:53,980 I was like, 760 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,660 It just sucks your life out the yeah. 761 00:32:55,660 --> 00:32:56,020 Yeah. 762 00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:56,500 yeah. 763 00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:57,820 Like who wants to do that? 764 00:32:57,820 --> 00:33:02,350 Like, like Matt, you and I are old enough to remember the days when like you just 765 00:33:02,350 --> 00:33:06,730 picked up the phone and called someone and you had to go out, you know, you had to 766 00:33:06,730 --> 00:33:12,610 go and see people and liking their posts on Instagram was not equivalent to you 767 00:33:12,610 --> 00:33:15,130 actually, you know, being their friend. 768 00:33:15,550 --> 00:33:15,760 Yeah, 769 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:18,280 heaven forbid. 770 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,970 It's, um, no, it is totally just, totally true, isn't it? 771 00:33:21,970 --> 00:33:24,610 I, Sharon and I, we went camping this weekend. 772 00:33:24,610 --> 00:33:28,030 My wife and I went, glam the first time I'd ever done glamping. 773 00:33:28,525 --> 00:33:29,125 Oh, okay. 774 00:33:29,125 --> 00:33:29,695 Nice. 775 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:30,430 loved it. 776 00:33:30,430 --> 00:33:31,090 Absolutely loved it. 777 00:33:31,090 --> 00:33:35,260 Big shout out to the guys, James and Sarah at Lonning, who, who, who set us up. 778 00:33:35,260 --> 00:33:36,130 They're amazing company. 779 00:33:36,130 --> 00:33:38,620 If you're in the UK and you need a bell tent that connects to 780 00:33:38,620 --> 00:33:40,030 your van, go check out Lonning. 781 00:33:40,030 --> 00:33:40,990 Just quick shout out to them. 782 00:33:40,990 --> 00:33:41,470 They're awesome. 783 00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:47,530 Um, but yeah, we, we, we went over to this festival and I felt very old. 784 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:53,830 I felt like I, I bought the average age up and it was, do you know what was lovely? 785 00:33:54,010 --> 00:33:54,070 Um. 786 00:33:55,210 --> 00:33:56,140 Jordan was they? 787 00:33:56,410 --> 00:34:01,630 They had this stage called forest school and all the young families, all 788 00:34:01,630 --> 00:34:05,380 the kids were in there like with axes and learning how to build campfires. 789 00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:09,699 Not a single one of them had a mobile phone, not a single one of them was 790 00:34:09,699 --> 00:34:14,020 trying to Snapchat their friends or capture content for Instagram. 791 00:34:14,020 --> 00:34:17,620 I mean, these are 8-year-old kids, maybe 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, kind of eight. 792 00:34:18,009 --> 00:34:19,149 But it was lovely to see. 793 00:34:19,149 --> 00:34:20,199 They just weren't on the phones. 794 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:21,939 They were actually outside just doing fun stuff. 795 00:34:23,350 --> 00:34:28,989 I, uh, I was out with my kids, um, 'cause I let my, my kids roam free a lot and 796 00:34:28,989 --> 00:34:32,319 they were up a tree and they were up like, I don't know, 20 or 30 feet up a tree. 797 00:34:32,469 --> 00:34:35,230 And there was this, this old couple that walked by. 798 00:34:36,054 --> 00:34:39,924 And he's like, I am so happy to see your kids up so high in the tree. 799 00:34:39,924 --> 00:34:40,404 He's like, you know what? 800 00:34:40,404 --> 00:34:42,954 We don't see enough of these days broken arms. 801 00:34:43,810 --> 00:34:44,229 so true. 802 00:34:44,299 --> 00:34:44,589 Yeah. 803 00:34:44,755 --> 00:34:46,975 He's like, we just don't, there's not enough broken arms, which 804 00:34:46,975 --> 00:34:48,384 tells me kids aren't trying. 805 00:34:48,384 --> 00:34:48,594 Right. 806 00:34:48,594 --> 00:34:52,225 And if anyone's read the anxious generation, just every parent 807 00:34:52,554 --> 00:34:54,114 must read the anxious generation. 808 00:34:54,114 --> 00:34:55,315 And I think you'll parent differently. 809 00:34:55,315 --> 00:34:58,495 Like I, I saw a kid at my daughter's school the other day. 810 00:34:58,495 --> 00:35:00,115 She's in grade four. 811 00:35:00,235 --> 00:35:01,645 Grade four or five, something like that. 812 00:35:01,945 --> 00:35:06,115 She had a phone and I was like, in five years, that is going to be the equivalent 813 00:35:06,115 --> 00:35:07,495 of her having a cigarette in her mouth. 814 00:35:07,959 --> 00:35:09,279 It is that harmful. 815 00:35:09,459 --> 00:35:10,870 Like I was like, get off your phone. 816 00:35:10,990 --> 00:35:14,859 Get off like, mom, do you not realize the damage that you're doing with this girl? 817 00:35:14,859 --> 00:35:18,549 And lo and behold, she's the one who has like the biggest attitude, right? 818 00:35:18,549 --> 00:35:22,120 And I'm like, well, chicken or egg, because poor girl has to defend 819 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,220 herself against all of this stuff 820 00:35:24,245 --> 00:35:24,465 Oh 821 00:35:24,490 --> 00:35:25,479 at her online, 822 00:35:25,485 --> 00:35:25,905 Mm-hmm. 823 00:35:26,290 --> 00:35:26,499 right? 824 00:35:26,529 --> 00:35:30,879 Like I, I will refuse for my kids to have screens before they're 16. 825 00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:31,810 I just refuse it. 826 00:35:31,810 --> 00:35:33,069 I'm like, I don't care. 827 00:35:33,069 --> 00:35:35,109 I don't care if all the kids make fun of you in school. 828 00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:35,830 It doesn't matter. 829 00:35:35,830 --> 00:35:36,910 It's not gonna be nearly as. 830 00:35:37,540 --> 00:35:40,720 Detrimental as you being on social media. 831 00:35:40,779 --> 00:35:44,529 I, I have like zero doubt that we're gonna look back on this time 832 00:35:44,620 --> 00:35:49,660 of, of this, all this experiment that we're doing and be like, oh, 833 00:35:49,660 --> 00:35:52,299 this is why no one's having kids. 834 00:35:52,899 --> 00:35:53,319 Right? 835 00:35:53,439 --> 00:35:58,120 This is why our like, like no one's happy and we've never seen such like 836 00:35:58,209 --> 00:36:00,520 SSRI use and all of this stuff, right? 837 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,140 Like, of course. 838 00:36:03,730 --> 00:36:04,930 No, I'm, I'm with you, bro. 839 00:36:04,930 --> 00:36:08,110 I think recently the Australian government banned mobile phones 840 00:36:08,110 --> 00:36:11,860 and they for, um, kids under 16. 841 00:36:12,370 --> 00:36:13,390 Um, oh, no, no. 842 00:36:13,390 --> 00:36:14,350 They didn't ban mobile phones. 843 00:36:14,355 --> 00:36:16,240 They, they, social media I think is 844 00:36:16,450 --> 00:36:17,140 Fan social media. 845 00:36:17,169 --> 00:36:17,470 Okay. 846 00:36:17,529 --> 00:36:17,979 Yeah, 847 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,120 Until you're 16. 848 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,950 And I think Well, good on you because 849 00:36:21,009 --> 00:36:22,330 I think it's coming everywhere. 850 00:36:22,540 --> 00:36:23,410 yeah, I, think it has 851 00:36:23,439 --> 00:36:23,859 it has to. 852 00:36:25,105 --> 00:36:25,615 It does. 853 00:36:25,795 --> 00:36:28,075 We sound like the two grumpy old men from the Muppets. 854 00:36:28,825 --> 00:36:32,544 And we, as we, as we should, as we should, maybe they had, 855 00:36:32,544 --> 00:36:33,624 maybe they knew more than we 856 00:36:33,715 --> 00:36:34,645 Maybe they had a point. 857 00:36:34,645 --> 00:36:34,915 Yeah, 858 00:36:36,924 --> 00:36:38,214 starting to like them actually. 859 00:36:38,305 --> 00:36:38,725 Yay. 860 00:36:39,205 --> 00:36:39,835 More and more. 861 00:36:40,285 --> 00:36:43,015 We should go back, bring back the, the wisdom of the grumpy old men. 862 00:36:43,135 --> 00:36:45,745 Uh, and I love that. 863 00:36:46,375 --> 00:36:46,825 Um. 864 00:36:47,049 --> 00:36:50,319 Jordan, listen, if people wanna find out more about the social commerce 865 00:36:50,319 --> 00:36:52,089 club, maybe connect with that. 866 00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:54,639 Um, figure out if it's a good fit for them. 867 00:36:54,694 --> 00:36:57,104 What, what's the, what's the, what's the plan there? 868 00:36:58,194 --> 00:37:02,214 So they can go to socialcommerceclub.com or, uh, even better, they can 869 00:37:02,214 --> 00:37:03,234 reach out to me on LinkedIn. 870 00:37:03,294 --> 00:37:07,314 Now I try to be good in my inbox on LinkedIn. 871 00:37:07,314 --> 00:37:10,944 I do try to check every message, but sometimes I look and they look spammy, so 872 00:37:10,974 --> 00:37:12,834 then I, then I don't actually open them. 873 00:37:13,194 --> 00:37:14,035 The problem is. 874 00:37:14,634 --> 00:37:18,265 Sometimes they're actually great messages and I go back later because 875 00:37:18,265 --> 00:37:19,794 they're like, Hey, just following up. 876 00:37:19,794 --> 00:37:21,294 And I'm like, oh yeah, another sales follow up. 877 00:37:21,294 --> 00:37:24,339 And I look and I was like, oh, you're a great brand that wants to work with us. 878 00:37:24,654 --> 00:37:24,944 Yeah. 879 00:37:24,944 --> 00:37:25,225 Yeah. 880 00:37:25,225 --> 00:37:25,705 Awesome. 881 00:37:25,975 --> 00:37:30,325 Um, so, uh, try me on LinkedIn too, but, uh, or you, or you can even just reach 882 00:37:30,325 --> 00:37:32,924 out at jordan@socialcommerceclub.com. 883 00:37:32,995 --> 00:37:34,825 Um, that is my email address as well. 884 00:37:34,825 --> 00:37:35,154 So, 885 00:37:35,545 --> 00:37:39,924 um, yeah, see if, see if we're we're a fit, we're, you know, 886 00:37:39,955 --> 00:37:41,335 obsessed with all things. 887 00:37:41,335 --> 00:37:43,825 Again, we come at this from a D two C perspective, right? 888 00:37:44,035 --> 00:37:47,455 D two C first because D two C is all about demand gen, right? 889 00:37:47,455 --> 00:37:51,025 Demand generation is so much harder than demand capture. 890 00:37:51,535 --> 00:37:52,015 Um. 891 00:37:52,154 --> 00:37:54,975 But we've all seen what happens with Amazon brands when that's 892 00:37:54,975 --> 00:37:55,845 all that they have, right? 893 00:37:55,845 --> 00:38:00,194 Is this capture of not a huge market and um, yeah, 894 00:38:00,745 --> 00:38:02,634 I think it's a painful road, but that's just me. 895 00:38:02,874 --> 00:38:06,384 Uh, it's the reason why I don't acquire or invest in, uh, 896 00:38:06,384 --> 00:38:08,095 Amazon, pure Amazon businesses. 897 00:38:08,214 --> 00:38:08,334 Uh, 898 00:38:08,334 --> 00:38:09,924 there's better people out there that do it than me. 899 00:38:10,154 --> 00:38:12,495 I never did either when I was doing acquisitions yet. 900 00:38:12,549 --> 00:38:13,809 Yeah, just not a fan. 901 00:38:14,019 --> 00:38:14,589 Not a fan. 902 00:38:15,220 --> 00:38:19,180 Um, and tell us a little for those that maybe are new to the show and didn't 903 00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:21,189 hear the very first episode that we did. 904 00:38:21,459 --> 00:38:25,089 Um, I don't even think TikTok was, I don't even know if mobile phones were a 905 00:38:25,089 --> 00:38:26,529 thing when we did our first recording. 906 00:38:26,529 --> 00:38:26,829 Jordan. 907 00:38:27,984 --> 00:38:28,975 I don't even know if we did. 908 00:38:28,975 --> 00:38:30,355 I think we did that one in person. 909 00:38:30,355 --> 00:38:31,920 I think I flew to the UK for that 910 00:38:32,095 --> 00:38:35,154 Yeah, I think we did with a, with Agram phone in the middle and someone 911 00:38:35,154 --> 00:38:37,375 was, didn't have to record in it. 912 00:38:39,775 --> 00:38:41,935 Um, tell us a bit about your podcast. 913 00:38:42,295 --> 00:38:43,404 People might wanna come Listen, 914 00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:44,319 yes. 915 00:38:44,665 --> 00:38:44,845 I. 916 00:38:44,845 --> 00:38:45,325 listen to it. 917 00:38:45,325 --> 00:38:46,585 I'm, I'm one of your regulars. 918 00:38:46,944 --> 00:38:47,365 Oh, you are. 919 00:38:47,365 --> 00:38:48,265 Oh, thank you, Matt. 920 00:38:48,265 --> 00:38:48,564 Thank you. 921 00:38:48,714 --> 00:38:52,075 You know, I'm always surprised when I look and see our download numbers and 922 00:38:52,104 --> 00:38:56,484 because I have done this podcast for so many years that, uh, it's, I think 923 00:38:56,484 --> 00:38:59,334 we're close to episode 650 right now. 924 00:38:59,365 --> 00:39:03,234 And, um, it's funny, you'll, for anyone who's listened to it 925 00:39:03,234 --> 00:39:05,069 for a while, it's called Secrecy Scaling, or e-Commerce brand. 926 00:39:05,424 --> 00:39:07,615 Um, we just hit a million downloads, which is fun. 927 00:39:07,915 --> 00:39:11,064 Um, I know after 650 episodes you're probably doing the math and being 928 00:39:11,064 --> 00:39:12,115 like, wow, it's not that good, 929 00:39:12,379 --> 00:39:13,990 It's for each episode, but well done. 930 00:39:14,059 --> 00:39:14,350 Yeah. 931 00:39:17,544 --> 00:39:21,174 Um, but I have, I have now been, uh, putting them out on YouTube 932 00:39:21,174 --> 00:39:23,934 finally, which is hilarious 'cause I always had video content. 933 00:39:23,934 --> 00:39:25,854 I just didn't ever put it out on YouTube. 934 00:39:25,854 --> 00:39:28,825 And we're getting like thousands of views in episode, which is really fun. 935 00:39:28,825 --> 00:39:31,914 And, um, and it's, it's just great to see. 936 00:39:31,914 --> 00:39:34,134 I'm, what I'm trying to do, I'm actually doing a new thing right now. 937 00:39:34,524 --> 00:39:37,825 Uh, and they're called, it's part of Secrecy Scaling Your eCommmerce brand, 938 00:39:38,004 --> 00:39:39,414 but I'm releasing my first one this week. 939 00:39:39,414 --> 00:39:41,814 It's called eCommerce os Fast Track Sessions. 940 00:39:42,939 --> 00:39:46,480 I am, uh, the first time I'm serving smaller eCommerce 941 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:47,589 brands right at our agency. 942 00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:48,970 It's really difficult to do. 943 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,120 We just, we can't resource it properly, the costing and all of that. 944 00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:56,740 And so, uh, I am launching a new program called eCommerce Os. 945 00:39:56,740 --> 00:39:59,350 You can go check it out at eCommerce os.co. 946 00:39:59,759 --> 00:40:03,539 Um, and I'm launching this new program and so alongside of it, I'm doing 947 00:40:03,539 --> 00:40:08,579 these shorter episodes where I bring an E-commerce founder on and I consult with 948 00:40:08,579 --> 00:40:12,809 them for 20 minutes and we solve one big problem, and it has been so much fun. 949 00:40:13,314 --> 00:40:14,154 Every single time. 950 00:40:14,154 --> 00:40:18,234 So the first one, a guy came on who's running a brand for Selena Gomez. 951 00:40:18,564 --> 00:40:22,884 Um, and he is just having a huge issue besides when SEL 952 00:40:23,154 --> 00:40:24,595 posts going from zero to one. 953 00:40:25,075 --> 00:40:25,375 Right? 954 00:40:25,375 --> 00:40:30,955 And, and so we talked through the strategy because it's, it, it's an, uh, an ice 955 00:40:30,955 --> 00:40:33,444 cream brand and so they can't ship. 956 00:40:33,444 --> 00:40:34,794 So it can't be direct to consumer. 957 00:40:34,794 --> 00:40:36,294 They can't do TikTok shop. 958 00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:41,710 So we just talk through what to do and, uh, and so it's very consultative 959 00:40:42,009 --> 00:40:44,290 and I'm having a blast doing it. 960 00:40:44,379 --> 00:40:48,790 And, uh, it is definitely my, my, I've, it's renewed my passion in podcasting 961 00:40:49,149 --> 00:40:51,759 and my, my episodes for the last three months, you know, I've really been trying 962 00:40:51,759 --> 00:40:53,259 to get my content guy to help me out. 963 00:40:53,649 --> 00:40:55,689 And I just gotta say it's my superpower. 964 00:40:55,899 --> 00:40:57,160 I can't let anyone else do it. 965 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,720 It's the thing I'm good at, not 966 00:40:58,725 --> 00:40:59,015 Yeah. 967 00:40:59,015 --> 00:41:00,009 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 968 00:41:00,009 --> 00:41:00,759 No, absolutely. 969 00:41:01,089 --> 00:41:02,560 We should do a whole episode one down. 970 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,080 Why every eCommerce branch should probably have their own podcast. 971 00:41:05,410 --> 00:41:07,779 Uh, it's just, it's a personal pet thing of mine. 972 00:41:07,779 --> 00:41:11,140 But I did let save that maybe for another day, uh, 973 00:41:11,605 --> 00:41:12,085 yes. 974 00:41:12,115 --> 00:41:13,285 We don't have the time today, Matt. 975 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:13,810 yeah. 976 00:41:13,810 --> 00:41:15,790 Well, you've got four minutes before you need to bugger off, so, 977 00:41:16,765 --> 00:41:17,245 I do. 978 00:41:18,115 --> 00:41:20,140 so I figure is this it will be, it needs to be, 979 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,825 And, and can I say why I have to leave in four minutes? 980 00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:23,200 Yeah. 981 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:24,069 Go for it. 982 00:41:24,655 --> 00:41:25,015 Okay. 983 00:41:25,405 --> 00:41:29,515 So the reason why, and, and Matt was like, why, how long can we talk for? 984 00:41:30,025 --> 00:41:33,145 And the reason why I have to leave in four minutes is because I 985 00:41:33,145 --> 00:41:35,410 have an hour where I'm gonna talk to my best friend on the phone. 986 00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:38,080 And it's nothing to do with business. 987 00:41:38,109 --> 00:41:42,669 And I recently read the, the book, the Five Types of Wealth And By Sahil 988 00:41:42,669 --> 00:41:46,600 Bloom, highly recommend if, if anyone hasn't listened to it and realized, 989 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,080 I'm like, I only ever cared about the one kind of wealth, which is money. 990 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,020 And I didn't even really understand what that was like. 991 00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:57,130 You know, I really actually thought that was just piling up cash 992 00:41:57,430 --> 00:42:00,250 and, and that actually wasn't it because it didn't help me sleep at night no 993 00:42:00,250 --> 00:42:03,490 matter how much money I had or how little, it just didn't even matter. 994 00:42:03,850 --> 00:42:04,120 Right. 995 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,890 Until I realized the five types of wealth. 996 00:42:05,890 --> 00:42:07,090 And one of them is relational wealth. 997 00:42:07,090 --> 00:42:10,240 And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have, I have not. 998 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,610 Um, I've not prioritized that. 999 00:42:12,610 --> 00:42:16,299 So even like today, you know, I had a meeting at 12 o'clock, uh, and 1000 00:42:16,299 --> 00:42:18,430 I realized that my wife was free for lunch and I was like, well, 1001 00:42:18,430 --> 00:42:19,245 I'm canceling that meeting 'cause. 1002 00:42:20,035 --> 00:42:23,575 Lunch is way more important with my wife than, than some rando meeting. 1003 00:42:23,694 --> 00:42:24,234 I'm sorry. 1004 00:42:24,234 --> 00:42:28,285 Like, it just is, and I'm not going to like be on my deathbed and be like, I'm 1005 00:42:28,285 --> 00:42:30,444 so glad I took that meeting with James. 1006 00:42:30,805 --> 00:42:31,075 Right. 1007 00:42:31,075 --> 00:42:33,294 I'll be like, oh, I'm so glad I made time for you 1008 00:42:33,714 --> 00:42:37,615 and, and for lunch and for slow things. 1009 00:42:37,645 --> 00:42:37,975 Right. 1010 00:42:38,065 --> 00:42:40,585 Um, anyway, that's what I wanted to tell you. 1011 00:42:41,049 --> 00:42:43,059 Well, we should do an episode on that as well. 1012 00:42:43,089 --> 00:42:43,329 Geez. 1013 00:42:43,329 --> 00:42:44,620 So many more episodes to come. 1014 00:42:44,620 --> 00:42:45,189 Jordan, listen. 1015 00:42:45,189 --> 00:42:46,450 Thank you so much, brother. 1016 00:42:46,779 --> 00:42:50,019 Always fun doing these, uh, podcasts and uh, and just 1017 00:42:50,019 --> 00:42:51,099 chatting the breeze with you, man. 1018 00:42:51,099 --> 00:42:53,140 And it's a shame I won't see you at Subs Summit this year. 1019 00:42:53,559 --> 00:42:55,089 Uh, but are you going subs, summit? 1020 00:42:55,495 --> 00:42:59,815 I am not, we're having a fourth child and moving, uh, in the next little while. 1021 00:42:59,815 --> 00:43:00,205 So 1022 00:43:00,309 --> 00:43:02,200 What kind of random excuse is that? 1023 00:43:02,485 --> 00:43:05,185 she would kill me if I went to Dallas right now. 1024 00:43:05,185 --> 00:43:05,634 So, 1025 00:43:05,770 --> 00:43:06,160 enough. 1026 00:43:06,279 --> 00:43:07,000 Fair enough. 1027 00:43:07,060 --> 00:43:09,310 Well, we'll hook up at some point in the future, no doubt. 1028 00:43:09,310 --> 00:43:11,649 But, um, if I don't speak to you before, I hope it goes well with 1029 00:43:11,649 --> 00:43:13,270 your fourth child, no doubt it will. 1030 00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:15,310 Um, but Jordan, you're a legend. 1031 00:43:15,609 --> 00:43:17,020 Thank you so much for coming on, man. 1032 00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:19,960 And thank you everybody for tuning in and listening to the show. 1033 00:43:20,259 --> 00:43:22,720 Make sure you like, subscribe, do all of that good stuff, but from 1034 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:25,060 me and from Jordan, that's it. 1035 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:25,960 Liked it. 1036 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,310 Uh, and bye for now.