Welcome to Close it now, the podcast that's revolutionizing the H VAC and home improvement trades industries.

Get ready to dive deep into the world of heating, ventilation, and air conditioning.

We're turning up the heat on industry standards and cooling down misconceptions.

And we're not just talking about fixing vents and adjusting thermostats.

It's about the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H VAC and home improvement.

We're the driving force, inspiring top performers who crave excellence not only in their professional endeavors, but also in fitness, nutrition, relationships, and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all.

This is Close it now, where excellence meets excitement.

Let's get to work now.

Your host, Sam Wakefield.

Well, all right.

Welcome back to another rock solid episode of Close it now, where we are becoming someone worth buying from today, I am joined by two guests on this podcast.

Two.

Ah, ah, ah.

So I'm excited about my guest today.

We have Mary Johnson and Patrick Campo.

Campo.

Campo.

Campo.

Campo.

Campo.

All right.

From Campo Heating and air in Mississippi.

In Picayune, Mississippi.

So I'm super, super stoked about our guest today.

We're going to.

I'm doing something different.

So on the show, I don't normally have a lot of technicians and salespeople and owners, but I'm changing that because I feel like at this point, we've covered a lot of high level business folks for a good while, and I want to hear more from people that are doing it every single day and what their growth journey is like.

And not only the growth, some of the struggles and the hurdles that you've been able to overcome and maybe are currently facing even, because those are the lessons that so many people really love and get a lot of value from.

So I'm so honored and grateful y' all are on the show today.

So welcome.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having us.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Yeah, totally.

Well, let's get rocking in this.

So I'm super curious.

So we've got both of you on here.

There's two different roles which we'll cover here in a little bit.

But I'm super curious.

Patrick, what are you super passionate about?

What are you really excited about right now in your business and in your life?

Growth, number one and helping people.

I mean, we have a lot of employees that depend on us, so I want everybody to win.

I love it when you say we want everybody to win.

Unpack that for us.

What does that mean to you?

Yeah, families have to put kids through School cars, housing, vacations, which I like to do.

So, yeah.

I mean, if we're making money, everybody's making money.

Everybody can live a great life.

Love it.

I love it.

Mary, what is going on in your life?

What are you super excited about and passionate about right now?

Growth.

Growth, of course, but just bringing something different to the trades industry, a little bit different than what anyone else is doing it and just helping companies grow, helping people actually grow.

Oh, I like it.

And so for everybody listening, you may remember Mary was on the show before.

It's been a couple years ago now.

You'll recogn a different last name.

So congratulations on your new nuptial.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

She is now Mary Johnson, and so stoked for that.

For you.

It's exciting.

I know you were going through a lot of stuff when we talked before.

Interestingly enough, though, the reason I had you on the show this was when I was very first introducing door to door to H Vac about that time period.

And you were working with a different company then, and across the last couple years, you have bounced around working with different companies.

So we're going to work this a little bit backwards.

I'm curious, how in the world did you.

You and Patrick, how did y' all get connected?

Let's start there.

E.J.

take it.

I'd say God.

Yes.

Yes.

Cody Abear from Ferguson.

So I met Mary, I think it was this year or last year, in Fairhope, Alabama, at a Ferguson event.

And I had heard a lot of good things about her.

I never would have imagined she would be a part of our family.

And here we are.

And I think you've been around, what, maybe four or five months, maybe six months now.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I actually went to an event in Orlando looking for private equity to come buy me out.

Give me whatever.

I'd take a hundred bucks so I could run.

I was ready to throw in the towel and give up.

And then unfortunately, well, I guess fortunately, none of them wanted anything to do with us.

And we came home, and I was just ready to give up, man.

I just could not figure it out.

And Mary was following us on Facebook, and she reached out.

We met with her, and she's been here ever since.

It was really hard at first because we had to kind of clean some things up.

And since we did that, it's been pretty amazing.

Nice.

Nice.

Well, let's dive in there for a second because there's so.

I know there's a lot of people that listen that may be in the same situation where you were Back then.

So talk to us when you say you were ready to just give up, ready to throw in the towel and tuck and run.

What was happening in the business then?

Why was it such a frustrating wall kicking moment for you?

Absolutely.

Or maybe debt was not happening too.

Yeah, right.

Debt number one.

I mean, I've gotten myself all this debt, rebranded the company, trying different marketing things, and it seemed like none of it was working.

Again, I like to take care of people, so I was paying people that weren't performing per se, and it was a lot of money being wasted.

The calls were right in front of our face.

We just weren't answering them properly, handling them properly, so.

And I think that I probably knew how to do most of this stuff.

I just couldn't implement it and I depended on the wrong people to put it in place for me.

So I was just ready to give up.

Sure, sure.

Gotcha.

And how.

How.

How far into this?

You said you restarted that in 2015.

Restarted Campo in 2015.

In Campo.

And so this would have been.

You said this was last year.

It was this year.

That was this year.

10 years in business and ready to throw in the towel.

Correct.

Got it.

Okay.

So, yeah, no, that totally happens.

It sounds like the struggle.

Absolutely.

Companies I talk to all the time, you feel stuck.

You know, we.

I think we were at 1.6 million and we just could not break that.

But even there, we weren't making any money.

We were losing money on jobs big time.

But at the same time, everybody else gets a paycheck and employees don't see it.

They think we're living this big rich and famous lifestyle.

But I mean, you.

You're risking everything, losing everything just so somebody else can get a paycheck.

And that's not.

I mean, I could go work at Home Depot and get a paycheck, right?

Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

Yeah.

It's not why we go into business to be the leader, take all the risk.

We're responsible for them.

But, man, it stinks when you can't keep your own lights on.

No doubt.

Yeah, for sure.

So intermarry into this equation then.

So y' all connected and, you know, what the heck does she do for you?

Let's keep it real general.

At first, I am super curious.

Mary is amazing at reading people.

So she already knew before even meeting my crew, family, what was going on here.

And we already knew Mary coming in was going to make a lot of people want to leave.

And we just didn't think it was going to happen so fast.

Right.

But it Did.

So she shows up and everybody walks out the back door when she's walking in the front.

Yeah, but.

But listen, as much as a business owner, as much as we don't want to see that, I mean, it broke my heart to see some of the people leave that we lost.

It needs to happen.

We as business owners don't realize that.

So we need somebody like Mary that knows how to do those things and read things like that to come in and manage that side of it for sure.

So now, I think now we're on a very good track, and Mary keeps us on that track.

I'm handling marketing and I'm paying the bills, making sure that, you know, suppliers are getting paid.

I still do payroll.

I shut my door.

I don't even listen to what's going on out there.

Mary keeps me updated with the numbers.

And, you know, I had a conversation with one of the guys this morning.

What's the best thing that I love about Mary is she.

When she sees those numbers are low for our goals or our weekly goals, monthly goals, she knows how to get those guys to start creating tickets and bringing that revenue in.

And.

And we do it.

We've been doing it.

We've been bringing in more than we budget for.

Love it.

Love it.

Let's circle back to something, because I feel like this is a really, really important topic.

In fact, we could spend the entire episode on this topic, which we won't.

But let's talk about the importance of understanding what happens when we keep people on longer than we should, and the importance of understanding that place of.

It's hard to see them go.

It breaks your heart.

I'm using your words here.

It breaks your heart to see them go.

But talk to us from so two perspectives of the same coin.

Two sides of the same coin.

Talk to us first from the perspective of what happens when you keep people too long that shouldn't be there.

And then talk to us from the perspective of what it's like on the other side once they are gone and what that feels like and how the organization functions.

Because I feel like there's a lot of business owners that are in that place where they know that should probably happen, but they're scared because they're thinking, well, maybe I won't be able to find somebody to replace them.

And all these things, they feel like they're in handcuffs to this the type of employee that's a bad apple, ruining the culture and all those things.

So I'd love to hear from you, especially since you just went through it recently, like where your mind was at, where your mindset is around that and what your experience has been.

Like, that was a big question.

Yeah.

I have so many answers.

Absolutely.

So again, I'm an H Vac technician.

I don't think that I don't like confrontation.

So that blows my chances of being a manager.

Right.

So if I do go work at Home Depot, I wouldn't be able to be a team leader there.

You're the guy.

13.

Yeah, they would just put me in a plumbing section, which I'm fine with that.

But yeah, it's like everybody around me seen it and they've all tried to bring it to my attention and I would not listen.

And I don't think it, it was more, less that I didn't want to.

I just didn't want to hear it.

I think I was more afraid of it than anything.

And then you're 100% right.

You think in your mind, well, if I lose this person, what am I going to do?

I know the answer to that now.

I'm going to start making the money that needs to be made.

Because I want to say it was the very same day or the very next day.

You can tell the difference in all the other team members attitude.

Like, yeah, they knew that we weren't playing around anymore, number one.

And then number two, they knew that, okay, things just got real and we don't have to deal with this negative or bad culture anymore.

So it's been 110% uphill since then.

It's, it's been nothing but, but growth.

And I'm not, I'm not by any means trying to put those people down that we got rid of.

It's just, it's business.

They're good people at the end of the day.

And, and sometimes I think maybe those people don't realize what they're doing.

They think they're doing good.

Um, and they may be in certain things, but they were hurting business and culture more than anything.

Yeah, no, I hear you.

There's an expression that my friend Doug Wyatt, I don't know if you know Doug Wyatt, if you don't check into his stuff, but Doug, he says when he's running his companies, the way he trains, this is.

When you have that conversation, it's like, listen, the fact that you're not willing to do what we're doing here at say, you know, close it now, H vac or compo, H Vac, whatever it is, is.

It doesn't make you a bad person.

It doesn't make you a bad technician, doesn't make you a bad father or husband or any of that.

But what it does make you is not a good fit for our organization.

And so this is in your best interest and ours to promote you to a position that best fits you outside of our organization.

And so that.

Absolutely, yeah, it doesn't mean anything negative about them other than it's not a good fit any longer.

And so, Mary, I'd love to hear from you a little bit on this topic because the things.

You're seeing it from a different perspective.

So for everybody, just to fill you in, Mary is working with Campo in a consultant advisory role for business operations and all these types of things.

Did I sum that up correctly?

Yeah.

And feel free to change the summary there.

Add to it, take away however you want to.

And then.

So fill us in on that.

And then I'd love for you to speak for this.

To this topic a little bit.

I feel like kind of came into Campo's family.

We're kind of family now.

But they, they.

You see it from a different perspective.

Right.

I looked at his P. Ls and I said, hey, something.

Something is wrong.

You've got the calls.

You've got the.

You've got.

He, hands down, is a marketing genius.

So it was like, he's great at this.

The calls are coming in, the money's not there.

Where's the money?

Right?

And so then you just start undigging and you go in and you meet.

Meet with everyone and you listen to everyone.

Well, normally business owners don't see it.

If they do see it, they don't want to deal with it because how is the company going to go on?

How.

How am I going to do this?

And I can remember PJ Saying numerous of times, well, who's going to handle this?

Doesn't matter.

If we can't handle it, get rid of it because we're going to make more money.

And then just trust your team.

Trust that if your team is telling you this, trust the team.

And I knew that as soon as we.

You get rid of the cancer that the team's going to pick up.

Right?

And.

And that's exactly what they did.

They picked up.

And the culture has been amazing.

Amazing.

They pushed harder.

They work as a team.

We did a bunch of team building things that I know to work together.

And just seeing it from a different perspective, I'm coming in.

They're not my family.

They're not my friends.

Right.

I'm coming in to help you to make money.

You need Revenue.

I'm here to drive revenue.

Well, let's figure out where we're losing it.

Mm.

Let's.

That's the.

That's the first thing.

Let's.

Let's figure out where we're losing it.

Paying someone that didn't work.

And.

And again, the person that we furloughed, we gave him the opportunity.

We bought management books.

PJ said, hey, if you'll do this, we'll.

We'll bring you back on.

It was never followed through with, so that's okay.

Right.

But if we're telling you this is what the team is saying about you, this is what we have to do, then this is what we have to do.

Well, as business owners, it's hard that don't like confrontation.

Like, PJ said, he's not a manager.

It's hard for him to say, hey, does this person, this female or this male has X amount of kids and how's he going to take care of his family?

That's not.

We're not here to run a daycare.

It doesn't matter how he takes care of his family.

And I hate to say that, because I am culture.

I am like, hey, let's build this team.

Let's.

And above everything else, let's make sure that everyone is happy.

Right.

But also let's make sure we're making money and we're not losing it 100%.

This is so good.

This is such a good conversation.

So, pj, another question for you, because I feel like this is a.

It's an awareness moment that slapped you right in the face.

You know, you hit this place, and you're ten years into this.

This iteration of the company, and you have this realization that in.

You introduce yourself as.

You're like, I'm the technician, but maybe lacking some of the leadership, ownership skills.

And so, you know, talk to us about that, because I feel like so many people are in that place of, you know, I thought it was going to be easy.

Yes.

I thought it was a lot of.

I can.

A lot of people are in that place.

A lot of people in that place, and I think a lot of people are in that place and don't even realize it.

Yeah.

So while.

While this was going on, a guy that I actually worked for and I've been knowing for a very long time, he owns a very large company in Louisiana, had reached out to me, and he basically went through this, and he told me what I needed to do.

Right.

Which I already knew what needed to be done.

But he.

He.

He brought up A very good point.

And I'll probably one of the best conversations I think I've ever had with anybody.

I told him, I said, john, I'm.

I'm.

I'm not a businessman.

I can't do this.

I can't make these decisions.

And he said.

He actually got mad at me.

And he said, you're wrong.

You're.

You.

You're a great businessman because you recognize when you can't do something and you hire people that can do it for you.

I think that kind of made me change my whole outlook on.

On business.

So, absolutely.

If.

If I'm not the guy that can.

I can't say what we call Mary.

Right.

But if I can't be the bad guy, then I need to find somebody to be the bad guy and pay them to be the bad guy.

We need the bad guy.

And marry your bad guy.

Every organization does.

Yeah.

Otherwise you fall into nepotism and all these things that will run a company.

You know, there is sadly, such a thing as being too nice to people.

Yes.

In a way.

PJ's the farmer, and they call me the.

The mother.

Love it.

Every business needs an mf, Right?

You got it.

And you hit on something really important.

And in fact, this is really good timing because just an hour ago, we did the recorded the met with for the monthly Close it now book club.

And this month's book was Leadership in H Vac Applying Marine Corps Leadership Traits to Residential Contracting by Chris Moran.

So for everybody that's listening, go watch.

You have to be in the Close It Now Facebook group.

But I'm posting the recording of that in the Facebook group and highly recommend this book for this reason.

So many of us, we really dove into this, the old adage that we hear all over the place, oh, I can't find good people.

We don't have good people.

Our workforce is so depleted, et cetera.

Where do I find a good technician?

And so many times what happens is we get this entrepreneurial seizure.

And it's not the fact that we don't have enough workforce.

The fact is too many people are working for themselves that should be working for somebody else, or we have to, like you did, go really deep dive and go inside and say, okay, I either need to develop the skills that I don't have, which takes a long time, or what the best leaders do, and I'm glad you brought this up up is they recognize where their weaknesses are and then put people around them to take those roles.

And that is a sign of a great leader.

So I have to give you kudos for that.

You may not see it yet, but holy crap, that's massive leadership skill right there.

Absolutely, yeah.

One thing that you just said in that book, you know, we can't find employees.

There's just no good technicians out there.

Bull.

They're out there and they're waiting to come work for you.

But you have to put that person in place to bring the culture where it needs to be.

Because technicians talk, they have friends, they talk to other technicians in supply houses.

They're out there.

You have to give them a reason to want to come work for you.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

It's massive.

So talk to about that a little bit because it's almost like, because I've had the same experience in the last organization I was at, this is how we started really building the sales team and our technicians and everything.

It's almost like they just come out of.

Appear out of the blue, isn't it?

It's like, wow, where did all these people come from all of a sudden?

Absolutely, yeah, no doubt.

And, and we've been, we've been through a few since Mary.

Mary's been on.

That's gonna happen.

I think that's normal.

You're gonna go through them.

But they, they.

First things first.

I mean, I think the, the branding, seeing the trucks and all that, you know, especially if you got a really cool brand, they, they see that they, they want to be a part of that.

And then when the guys are talking, man, we're doing this, we're getting paid for this, we're busy.

That's when they start coming for sure.

Yeah, 100%.

I love it, man.

And you do have a great brand, by the way.

I've been stalking your social media for months now, in fact.

That's great.

We love it.

That's a kick charge brand.

Oh yeah.

Dan's the man.

Shout out to Dan Antonelli.

He's a rock star.

So for sure.

Yes.

You know, it's funny, I work with, of all of the companies I've worked with in the last two and a half years, I would say probably 65, 70% of them are kick charge brands.

It's been really interesting to watch the trends.

Yeah, I've got half shirts laying around that are all the different logos.

But Mary, question for you in this conversation.

So this is definitely being the.

I'm going to change your title for the sake of the episode to the Enforcer.

Oh, there we go.

Being the enforcer.

There's your PC version.

Being the Enforcer.

Talk to us about that conversation, because I know that there's a lot of value that you can bring to that, how to have that type of a disciplinary slash.

We're building this culture conversation with the people that.

Because I'm sure you have this conversation with everyone on staff, not just the people that you need to have a hard conversation with, but with everybody.

So what does that sound like?

What is important to make sure is included in that conversation?

Because, you know, as we know, communication skills are one of the biggest skills that, you know, especially in the trades, that is missing most of the time.

And so this is crucial to be able to have this type of a hard conversation, but also doing it in a way where you don't come across as just the jackass.

Right?

So.

So talk to us about the importance of the vow, the things that need to be in the conversation, what that should sound like.

Building trust with your team.

And.

And, you know, if I didn't have trust with the entire team and it.

In the beginning, it was rocky, right?

It was, well, someone may say this, but then they say this, and then back and forth, back and forth, and it's like, no, listen, like, you have to trust me to know that I have your best interest.

I want you to make the most money that you've ever made this year.

And that's my.

My number one thing for everybody in the company.

I want you to make the most money that you've ever made this year.

And I also want you to have fun while you're doing it.

Trust me in that.

And if you trust me in that, we'll fly high, right?

Those hard conversations, they're not so hard when I see.

For me, they're not extremely hard when I see what they're doing to the company and what they're doing to the team.

So it's not just a, hey, you're not performing correct or you're not.

Your KPIs aren't where we want them.

Your numbers aren't where we want them.

It is, hey, what does your brother say about you?

What do your sisters say about you?

Because you are your brother and your sister's keeper.

So what are they saying?

And as a reflection of what Campos is standing for, are.

Are we able to go out into the.

Into the streets and say, this is exactly what we stand for when every one of the other employees are miserable because of the.

Because of the toxic relationship there?

And so to me, it's not hard.

It's not hard to have that conversation.

But I don't just Go off what one person says.

Definitely listen to the entire team, see how they're feeling.

Hey, what?

Okay.

Understand this person is in charge.

Let's say.

Let's say we're a $5 million company and they're the GM, right?

This person's in charge of everything.

Well, who's going to take those tasks?

Okay, you don't like him or her, what are you going to do?

Bring me a solution.

Right.

So what are you going to do to be able to help the team so that we can.

If we decide to get rid of this person?

And it.

Amazing.

This is about the fourth company that I've worked with.

Amazing how much everyone steps up.

It's every time once you get rid of the cancer, the team steps up.

And it's.

It's amazing to watch.

I would say that Campos has a great culture because PJ goes above and beyond for everyone.

So how can we.

How can we help him build?

Because if they're making more money, he's making more money.

If he's making more money, I'm making more money.

And then we're all happy, right?

Not because of the money, but because we're having parties and we're able to.

We're able to go sit down and have dinner with one another and actually laugh and joke and have fun.

And so it's those hard conversations.

When I.

When I see what the team is saying, they're not so hard.

So.

And I'd say 98% of the time, the team has the same idea that we have.

Sure.

Yeah.

You know, in all the situations I've been in, similar to that, it was usually as I grew, I got better at recognizing it and dealing with it sooner, but usually it was to the point where everyone knew it but you as the leader.

And then it's almost like, you know, I liken it to this.

And I think you might like this pj too, because something you said earlier, it's almost like, you know, in a house where you can get what they call nose blind to certain smells, especially when you say we're getting a home, we're talking to people about indoor air quality and those types of things, and we're trying to.

The house that smells the worst, those are the ones that the people, they don't even realize it because they're nose blind to it.

They don't even smell it.

And the same thing happens in our organizations when you've got this steaming pile of dog crap in this culture from the emanating from this toxic person, but because it's come, it's been there for so long, we get nose blind to it and it's everybody else is stepping around this pile and like oh my God, what are you going to do with this?

And they're like take the trash out.

And it's like we're nose blind to it after a while.

And so it like sometimes takes that, that realization of okay, it's time to deal with it.

So that's the way I liken it.

It just 100 my works in analogies.

So yeah, as a business owner too, you have to realize again you're putting your life at risk, your family, your credit.

So at some point you have to wake up and say I can't do this anymore.

I need somebody to come in and take this over and get rid of that, that problem, whatever the problem is.

And that's what Mary is at the end of the day.

She's the enforcer but she's also the problem solver.

She will find the problem probably before she even steps foot in that office.

And that's what we've been looking for.

We've been needing that, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Especially yeah.

You find those missing places, where are the gaps and then fill those gaps either with a person or you know, an organization.

If it's a.

In fact this would be a fun corner to turn here because you know, maybe it's, maybe it is marketing those types of things unless you're like y' all said Mary said a couple times now you're a genius at marketing.

So I want to turn the corner into that because this year has been stacked on top of last year and it's halfway through the year before.

So actually you could draw a line right down the center of 2023 and from the transition from between June to August, that is where from.

So I've been in the industry a long time, 20 years.

Basically all of the veterans I've talked to, this is where the industry right sized and went back to normal.

But for people that started in 2020, 2021, 2022, oh my God, it was doing so great and all of a sudden it fell off the cliff and call volumes down 30 to 40%.

What are we going to do?

And it's never picked up since then.

Well, it's normal now.

So my question, all of that context to say my question is this has been a really mild year as far as the weather goes, which has driven very weather dependent companies to be scrambling and wondering what they're going to do this year.

And from talking to you guys, you're growing like crazy.

So what's the difference?

So I want to hear what are some of the things that you're doing that has driven the growth, that's driven the inbound, that is keeping your people busy, et cetera?

I mean, I'm a farmer.

Love it.

So what does that mean in this context?

Because I get it.

There's a good chance I may have a clue, but 100%, but I'm here to learn.

Yeah.

So I know a lot of business owners in Louisiana, Mississippi.

A lot of.

We're all air conditioning businesses, but at the end of the day, we're all different.

I know a lot of guys that, that have.

They're older, they're established, they don't do any marketing at all.

And that's fine because they, they stay busy enough to keep them going and they're making money off their regular customers.

I kind of disagree with that.

But it's working for them.

So I finally convinced myself that I'm no longer air conditioning company.

I am a marketing company that sells air conditioning systems and air conditioning services.

And I think that in today's world, that's the only way to go.

You have to market, you have to find.

You might.

And I get this a lot, man.

I'm wasting all this money on Google.

I'm wasting all this money on social media.

You have to.

It's a gamble.

You have to find what works for you or your business and then stick to it and hit it hard.

And there's a lot of great marketing companies out there, and you're going to break some hearts too.

And I have.

It's almost like getting rid of the bad employee.

Right.

You're not getting rid of a bad marketing company, but their services doesn't work for your company.

So you have to move on.

Um, yeah, it's been a hot topic on.

In the Facebook groups lately.

If anybody that's been paying attention.

Yeah, well, and you're right, there's like some of the methods and methodologies that some of them have.

They don't fit every market or don't fit the culture of every company even.

It doesn't mean they're a bad company.

It might mean it's not a good fit for you 100%.

I mean, if it may work for somebody in California, it doesn't work for me in Mississippi.

I have to find what works for me here in Mississippi.

And Mississippi is, is definitely very rough.

And Mary, we had to break Mary out of this habit, but Mississippi's a little bit Different.

You're not going to market these high dollar systems and things like that.

So you have to figure out a way.

And I get a lot of negativity about this, but I'm a volume guy at the end of the day and that's where farming comes into place because you know, this just happened, just happened.

The other day a customer called.

So the customer gets home from work, let's say he gets off of work at 5pm, he gets home at 6, 6:30, it's a hundred degrees in his house.

He calls his air conditioned guy that his mom and dad's been using for the last 25 years.

The guy comes out 6:30 at night, he needs a new system, compressor's bad, needs a new system.

He quotes him $14,000 for a new system, doesn't offer financing.

So that guy says, well, I don't have the 14,000, let me figure this out.

Well, he's on Facebook and he just so happens to see our 15 ads that we're paying to run, right?

He clicks on them, it catches his attention, he fills out the form.

Shay calls him back like that.

We get somebody over to his house, we offer him a, let's say a $9,000 system or let's say we run his credit and he can't get approved for $9,000, but he got approved for $4,000.

So we figure out a way to, but not just to make that $4,000 to keep that customer for life.

We're gonna lock him in with a new condenser, whatever it may be, 10 year labor warranty and a maintenance contract for those 10 years.

When that other part of the system fails, he's more than likely calling us and we're going back out and getting another sale out of that customer.

So that's where I say I'm, I'm planting seeds.

I love this because this brings back, this is classic H Vac, the lifetime value of a client.

It's a conversation that has been lost in the last 15, 20 years by most companies because the idea is, well, we're going to go out there, we're going to make a lot of money, we're going to replace a lot of equipment, we're going to blow this thing up in five years and we're going to sell it.

And then what?

Let the next people deal with the fallout from the way that we've treated people in these three, four, five, six, seven years.

And it's gross.

So I love that this is a mindset of yours because it comes back to something That I firmly believe is we need to meet people where they are.

There are situations where we do the best we can with what they have.

Sometimes that means they're not our client.

Sometimes that means we need to adapt.

But by doing that, you're setting them up for success, for the future, and building the relationship and building trust so they don't call anybody else.

So you're the guy that he calls 25 years from now and his kids and his grandkids call because this is who dad and grandpa always used.

And I love that mindset.

So I'm curious.

Give me a little bit to get on board with it.

Yeah.

So let's talk about what piece of this were we breaking?

Mary of I'm super curious.

Is it like we have to do a complete system concept or which piece.

Of this, that and the lower cost systems?

I would say here's my thing, volume.

And this is why I'm a volume guy.

For those reasons that I just told you about that customer.

Right.

But not just that.

What pays our bills, Gross profit.

Right.

We have lights to keep on, but we have employees that again, have families.

They depend on their 40 hours a week for their paycheck.

They depend on their vacation time.

So all of that goes into our gross profit at the end of the day.

So we have to have works.

And I see a lot of business owners that tell me, I don't see how you're doing that.

I can't sell a system for that.

There's no way I won't wake up in the morning for that.

I get it.

But I don't have to get rich off of every job.

I, I can't have guys in the wintertime not making 40 hours a week because they're going to move on to another company.

We have to keep them busy.

So we have to come down on pricings on something.

Now this is what I see a lot of, and I'm sure this is all over the country as well.

A lot of guys are stuck in their ways.

That $15,000 system is all you're getting from me or I'm a walk away from this job.

And um, let's give them that $4,000 option.

Let's give them a non $10,000 option, and let's give them that $15,000 option.

Let's, let's see what option fits them best and let's see what they qualify for.

If they qualify for the $15,000 option and it's in their budget, we can make it work.

Then hell yeah.

Let's Go for it.

Mm.

I love.

I love this conversation, you know, because there's no right answer for any, you know, for all of the companies, you know, there's.

There's absolutely 100% a market for exactly what you're doing.

Is there a market for the companies that are the, you know, 65% margin companies that only do the high.

Lower volume, higher margin?

Absolutely.

There's a market for every single thing.

And so I love that you've picked a lane and you stay in it.

You're not trying to be all things to everyone, because that's where companies fail is they have all of the things, meaning they don't really help anybody because the messaging is confusing.

Nobody knows who you are.

What's the point here?

So I love this.

And yeah, I absolutely believe in a lot of what's going on.

Man, this is awesome.

And the other piece to this, which I'm sure this is a big part of knowing your numbers is, is everyone has different amounts of overhead.

So someone's call it a 50% margin on a project.

That could literally be thousands of dollars difference at the end of the day on the total price of a project.

Equipment cost is the same.

Labor's, the same, materials the same.

The structure on the back end.

So for just.

This is just a quick side note for everybody listening, don't compare your numbers to somebody else's and think, oh, they're overpriced or they're underpriced.

They might be priced exactly the same as you, except the back end is different.

And so just really, it reminds me of the.

Keep this mindset.

It's the.

Was it the Michael Phelps.

The really, really famous Michael Phelps picture when he was winning the gold and the swimmer next to it.

The picture was snapped at the perfect time, the swimmer next to him.

For all practical purposes, everyone said the one next to him was a better, faster swimmer.

But this picture captured the perfect moment where he's looking at Michael Phelps while Michael Phelps is staring at the finish line.

So losers look at winners.

Winners look at the finish line.

When anybody else looks like, here's what we do.

And that.

Just stay in your lane and do your thing.

Yeah.

And it's helped.

It has.

It was some adjusting for me.

Right.

But watching it now, and we help everybody.

And that's our, you know, that's our number one goal, integrity, and making sure that we're helping everyone, helping the homeowner, helping the.

Helping the team members that we have.

It helps everybody.

But adjusting.

But the growth of the company shows that it's working and that's, you know, that's his farming, that's his marketing, that he knows what he's doing.

And trusting, trusting him, he's trusting me to meet.

Okay, well, let's try this.

And now it's like, oh my gosh, he's a genius.

Yeah, I love this.

So when you say farming and let's go.

I'm not going to let you get off without answering a little clearer question here.

So you referenced Facebook ads.

So when you say farming, when you say the marketing aspect of this, can you get a little granular and just let us know what has worked for you this year as far as where's the volume of your leads come from, what has been and have you noticed anything different this year versus previous years too?

Absolutely.

Paid Facebook ads are amazing with the right person managing them, creating them.

What works for us is ugly ads because they catch people's attention.

They 100% piss every other air conditioning company in your area off for sure.

What do you mean by ugly ads?

Ugly ads, you know, our first, I think our first week with Lead Bear, I, I called them and I said, dude, you can't run that ad.

Like you got this guy in a pair of ripped up jeans and a T shirt installing this Goodman unit.

It's sitting on two by fours.

It looks like absolute trash that we can't have that we don't do that kind of work.

And he's like, ugly ads catch people's attention.

So if you want to run ads with these beautiful rap trucks pulling up and you guys in white button up college shirts, we can do that.

But people are going to scroll right past it.

And they were 100% right.

So that's what I mean by ugly ads.

Something that's gonna catch their attention.

They actually don't call it ugly ads.

They call it sexy ads, but it's ugly ads.

Yeah.

And then, and then you need to limit what you're putting in those ads.

Too much.

People just seem to get away.

You know, I've been working the last couple of weeks, last couple of months, last couple of years trying to figure out how to grow our maintenance memberships.

Right.

And I just learned from a gentleman the other day from upfrog, actually you can market them on Facebook wherever you want.

You're not going to sell them.

You, you need to catch them with some type of loss leader ad.

And you need to watch how you word it.

Like the free free on checkup or you could do a dollar 49 free on charge.

Those aren't really going to work.

You need to.

You just need to watch how you word it.

And he told me one.

It was called, like, a $49 check and fill visits a year.

And Mary's saying, no, no, no, that's too cheap.

That's too cheap.

But we want thousands of those maintenance plans.

Somebody else had asked me just the other day, how can you do a maintenance plan for 99 a year?

How can you do that?

PJ, I'm at $189 a year, and I'm not making any money off of that.

I'm not trying to make money off of that.

I'm trying to keep my guys busy so they can create more work.

And then you need to know your overhead.

You need to know your numbers.

If I know my overhead, I know exactly how many of those $99 maintenance plans I need to sell to keep my lights on and let my guys bring the rest of the revenue in.

Yeah.

So it sounds like it goes back to training your people better so they know how to have the right communication and the right conversation in the house to find 100%.

Ask the question.

Asking you better answers in the house also.

Let me.

Let me interject.

Pj yeah.

We have without.

I have to.

I have to.

Shay is his wife.

Best.

Best husband and wife duo of any company that I've ever seen.

Ever.

They work extremely well together.

Say, follows up with every marketing lead that we get.

Every lead that is in there, she is on top of it.

They told us.

I'm not a marketing person.

That's.

That's my.

That's my weak point.

But they told us you've got two to three minutes max, five minutes to call that lead back to get in that door.

And she is on it every time.

You know, it's kind of like the old Yelp.

Like, if you're not.

If you're not the first person on it, you're not getting it.

The latest statistics are even less than a minute now.

Yeah.

So, Shea, kudos to her.

She stays on top of it, and we.

We rarely miss it.

And she'll.

She'll.

She'll bug them.

She'll be like, hey, you.

You filled this out.

I want to know, when can we come to your house?

So that.

That's a huge part of.

This is the follow up.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's a thousand different ways to do it.

I love that.

That is what you're.

The next step.

Because for everybody that's listening, it's not enough just to run the ads and get the leads in.

You have to be in touch with them.

So, so, so, so fast.

And of course, there are some automated ways to do that, that they get instant responses via text.

We do that.

It's just powerful, powerful, powerful.

Get them within seconds.

A lot of times they'll just.

If you have a way for them to just click a button and book online, that's beautiful, too.

But yes, staying in that loop and not letting them go and fall through the cracks is crucial for this to work.

That's the step and then, of course, the conversation in the house.

But that's the in.

But I'm glad you brought that up, because that's the in between that most people miss.

They get all the kids don't know what to do with them.

If you don't have processes in place for that, you're wasting money.

A lot of people tell me, I can't use that marking company.

They suck.

I can't.

I can't.

It's just like people, our customers, that say, I don't want a Goodman unit in my house, or I don't want a Heil unit in my house because it's a piece of crap.

No, it's the person installing it.

Right.

So if you don't have.

If.

If you're paying this marketing company all this money and the leads are coming in, but you're doing nothing with them, then you're.

You're.

It's you.

Not.

Not the marketing company.

Same thing with the $99 maintenance plans.

If Mary doesn't have the guys trained on what to do or what to look for or how to even talk to the customer on these maintenance plans, then, yes, you're losing a lot of money.

Yes.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

I have people come to me that and all the time, this is the conversation.

Because really, at the end of the day, for everybody listening, the difference in a $99 maintenance plan and a $199 maintenance plan is not going to move the needle.

It's what happens while you're in the home.

It's about top of mind awareness.

It's like getting in front of that client multiple times a year face to face to have the conversation.

That's what drives business.

It's not the difference in $100 by.

Give them the maintenance plan.

You can have it.

You can have the maintenance plan.

Yeah.

There's a lot of companies that actually have gone to that.

We do it, you know.

Absolutely.

Yeah, for sure.

Let us get it.

Let us earn the right to have your business.

Because we want to earn the right to build relationships.

So.

Right.

We also have supply companies.

Supply companies saying, what are y' all doing differently?

Y' all are having 1012 installs this week and other companies aren't.

They're not doing anything.

It is, it is his marketing.

It's like if he opens a marketing company, I'm telling you guys, go to him.

It starts with marketing.

Obviously you have to have somebody like Shay to, to, to book the call.

Right.

So if you got somebody answering the phone, what do you want, you know what a bad attitude.

Then they're going to hang up right there.

So then the marketing guy just wasted his time and his, his money on that.

So it starts with marketing.

Next step would be the person answering the phone, booking that call and then last but not least, the technician.

If we put a technician with a bad attitude in that home, he's leaving with $99.

We didn't make any money.

We lost a bunch of money.

Yep.

No doubt.

I love this.

So we've had this big conversation here.

So you went from, what'd you say, 1.6 when this journey started.

Where are you at now?

What are you pacing for at this point?

We're on track for 2.5, Mary.

Am I not?

We won.

Yeah, 3.2.

That's what we're on track for.

She went up.

No, your budget's still the same.

My, my goal was, was still 3.

His goal was 2.5.

But we're, we're tracking 3.2.

So I think we've had 142% growth this year.

So, yeah, no doubt we'll keep pushing.

And.

It was yesterday evening at the new office, me and Brandon were looking at numbers and I think we were like 29,000 short for the month.

And I think he went out, he left and he went out and sold that in just a few hours after we looked at it.

So.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's constantly on the phone with him, hey, what do we have to do?

How do we have to do it?

Right?

That's, that's Brandon Ozar.

I would.

If you had to give him a title.

I don't like titles and companies, but I would say he would be everything.

He, he keeps the, he keeps the guys together, he keeps the office together.

He keeps it all running, right?

Absolutely.

I say what I need to say.

He, he just delivers it.

He implements it.

Got it.

He implements it.

He's so, he's soaking up as much as he can from.

But he'll.

I'll say, hey, Brandon, this is what we have to have.

Can you tell Devin and George and all of our guys, like, can you make sure that this happens?

This is what I need on this call.

This is what I need on this call.

And I'm looking over the schedule, you know, and he, he makes it happen, whether he has to get in the vehicle with them or hey, Mary, I need you in the vehicle with them.

Whatever it may be.

Like, this is what we have to do to make it happen.

And he makes it happen.

So this is what.

So when I'm working in this at this capacity, actually, this is really fun because the division of my company is called Tradescale.

We do this very similar thing to what Mary's doing.

We call that position a key man.

He's the key man.

So can you unpack that a little bit?

Talk about the importance of someone in that role?

Because I feel like so many companies don't have somebody to do that.

And then it falls back to somewhere it doesn't need to go, like back to the owner or it doesn't happen at all.

And there's a big, a lot of disconnect between the different.

You know, there's just no communication between people.

And so then all of the balls get dropped.

So I'd love for you take turns, I'd love for you both to speak to the importance of somebody in that specific role.

They get paid.

I think you hit it spot on.

If you don't have somebody in that role, then it rolls back to the owner.

And, and it's just, it's very stressful.

Like I can't focus on these marketing things, on farming, on, on getting my bills paid on time so we can keep things rolling, right?

If I have to deal with every, every single little problem that comes through.

So I think Brandon is, is amazing at that.

He.

He works, he works with the guys.

He.

He's dealing with customers.

And I'm gonna tell you something, there's nobody better than Mary with dealing with angry customers.

She.

She is amazing.

I mean, she had my nanny and her husband on the phone.

They.

I think they were about to like, fist fight over the phone.

They were yelling and screaming at each other.

And she, she brought this.

I think she might have re reunited their marriage over the phone.

Mary is.

Think I see Brandon soaking that up from her.

And then it's hard for me, especially for me, because it's me and my wife, right?

So obviously when somebody calls me with a problem, I get stressed out and I want to just blow up, right?

And she picks that up from me and she wants to blow up too.

So you need somebody else to handle that.

So there's no, there's no, there's no back and forth and no arguing with the customers.

Obviously at the end of the day, as the business owner, we want to make it right.

So yeah, definitely.

I think we're at the point now where they don't even bother me with that anymore.

They just go ahead and make a decision on it.

I would imagine if it's something big like, like hey, we drove through this customer's house with the truck.

We need a, we need to know what to do right.

Then they're going to get me involved.

But still let them handle it for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's almost to the pointer role.

Yeah, they don't, they don't.

It's not a lot anymore.

Like when we first started it was a whole lot of problems all the time.

It's not a lot anymore because they have to call me.

They have to call me and they don't want to call me because you know, I'm, I'm the enforcer now.

Brandon's the implementer.

So like we're going to, we're going to take this down the chain and how, we're, there's, there's repercussions for this.

Every action has a reaction.

Right.

I'll say one thing for the implementer.

Every company needs it, but you've got to pay them.

So we do a, we do a share profit with Brandon.

He, he will, you know, he'll, he'll get a, he'll get a profit at the end.

You've got to pay him good.

They, because if not, they're not invested.

And he said that like what is my goal?

What is my next goal?

Because I need to see me moving forward and that's sitting down doing visions with them, making sure that hey, we know what their hundred day goal is.

What is your year goal?

And so we make sure we do that.

Yeah, yeah.

That's how to retain key people is having a very clear vertical track for them.

Otherwise they'll max out.

And where do we go from here?

Where do we go if they hit the ceiling, the only way place to go is sideways and we don't want that.

When they're people that we want to keep in the environment, they're great people.

Yeah.

I love this, such a great conversation.

I appreciate being, investing the time to be on the show today and this has been such a good conversation.

Real quick.

So for both of you, I'd Love for.

So, Patrick, put the word out there because there are people across the country that are looking to work or an organization like yours, pj.

And so let everybody know how they can get a hold of you because there may be people listening in your area and.

Or across the country that would be willing to, hey, move where you're at.

Because there's always a great opportunity, especially for people in maybe a not so good position right now.

So how do they get a hold of you?

And then we'll toss the ball over to Mary and everybody know how to maybe want some of this.

Beautiful.

I love it.

And Mary, tell.

What.

What are you even calling.

What you.

Do you have a name for your business now?

Yeah, the name is Ignite1.

But it's.

It was hard to say.

Like, I just love people.

I think that we.

We shared that the last time that I was on here.

I just love people and love seeing them grow.

But ignite one, because.

Ignite something within this.

In this one person.

Because when you ignite them, everyone around them ignites.

Love it.

So maybe companies listening that would love to talk to you about how you're working within campo and the other companies you've worked with, maybe potentially to work with them.

How do they get ahold of you?

They can reach me at marygnite1.com or they can call me at 919-909-7893.

Perfect.

Cool.

I appreciate it.

Okay, so let's land this plane.

Before we do, what's the next thing that you're most looking forward to, pj?

What's the excitement for pj?

For campo?

It could be business.

Non business.

And any words of wisdom you want to leave with anybody before we sign off today.

Nice.

Love it.

Yeah, it's good.

That's exciting, man.

Good stuff.

How about you, Mary?

What are you looking forward to that you're really excited about?

And for everybody listening, what is a piece of advice you would give them that will move them forward?

I'm excited for our new office.

I'm very excited for that.

The small things.

I get overwhelmed by the small things.

I love the small things because they grow to be bigger things.

And the one thing for other people is just pay attention to who you're hiring and make sure that they want to be a part of your family, not just someone that's going to just take your money and walk away.

I think that Sam and I had.

We had this conversation the other day.

But if I'm going to take your money, I'm going to make sure.

That I'm doing something for your company.

So when you're hiring these, I don't even consider myself coach.

I consider myself family.

But when you're hiring someone, pay attention to who you're hiring.

Talk to other companies about that.

Make sure that they have, you know, I guess, KPIs of what they've did for other companies and where the other company is today versus two or three years ago.

Because I can.

We can, we can make all the difference in a month.

But what did we make a difference for year over year?

Because if we're not making a year, a difference year over year, we're not making a difference at all.

No doubt.

I love that so much.

Well, thank you all for being on the show today.

This has been an honor and privilege and it's always cool to talk to people that are in the grind every single day.

I actually missed that.

There's some things going on that I might be.

We'll see some things going on.

I'm doing a ton of stuff, so I'm going to be out in the field a bunch more coming up here pretty soon.

But I love to talk to people.

Y' all go to Mississippi.

We should talk.

Patrick, we should talk.

Pj, We've got some things happening that I think you might really like.

But yeah, there's some cool stuff coming down the pipe and it's just always awesome to.

To talk to people that have such a positive mindset especially.

And I have to give you a kudos, pj.

Man, to come to that place and that realization of, you know what, I need help and to ask for help is huge.

And so, man, I can't commend you enough for setting the ego down enough to say, in order to get change, I have to make change and then actually taking action on it.

So.

So, man, that's big respect points, brother.

So for sure.

And clearly the results are following that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, totally.

It depends on the arrangement for sure.

But man, that's a big one.

Yeah, yeah.

It's gotta be some sort of results.

I'm glad you mentioned this.

We'll take another couple minutes here because there's a huge shift going on in our society, in the marketplace, in business.

And this isn't just in home services.

You know, I'm in a couple high level masterminds that are across a ton of different industries.

And the big shift right now is prove it with the results and then, you know, split it out on the back end.

But that lowers the upfront.

It puts the risk on the coach and consultant.

Because we all know there's so many quote unquote gurus out there right now that like Mary and I were talking to the other day, you know, take the money and run.

And I mean, I follow sales trainers in the industry that the companies tell me our numbers went down after they were here and I'm like, this is awful.

This is gross.

But they're the famous ones.

It's like, oh my gosh, are you serious?

And so it's like, man, this is wild.

And so, yeah, there's a big shift to more of the.

How about enough to cover the expenses up front and then let's share on the back end.

But then you've all got skin in the game and it's found money and it grows from there.

So.

Yeah, I 100% agree with that.

It's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

What is the name of the book?

That's for the book club.

Sorry, the book club.

What is it right now?

P.J.

you go then, Mary.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, for sure.

That is not the same all over the country.

It does change, that's for sure.

And so, yeah.

What were you saying, Mary?

What is the name of the book that you were talking about?

The leadership.

It's in the book.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's Leadership in H Vac.

Applying Marine Corps Leadership Traits to Residential Contracting.

And so that's the COVID right?

I've got my.

It's not going to work.

I've got my background on.

It's in the Facebook group.

And so it's by Chris Moore.

And he's actually a total side note.

He's a Akka trainer and he runs H Vac Pro Blog.

Is his how most people know him.

But yeah, so it was the best.

He's military and he says everything that they do, you do in a company.

And so you said something just a second ago and he said he, he, you know, he's my, he's my support.

So he's like, everything that we do in the military, you do on an H Vac company.

It's just different.

Everything from the SOPs to the, you know, the different cores of leadership.

And it's, it's, it's this.

It literally is the same.

It's basically run it run your business like the military runs the troops.

And that's awesome.

It's funny we were talking about this earlier.

I've never served, but a ton of my family did.

And it's like everyone I've ever talked to that's ever been in the Military always talks about.

It's funny, they always mention.

The first thing is, you know, they even have a book that they give you on how to brush your teeth when you get into boot camp.

And it's not just a one pager.

It's the whole book.

Yeah, but that's how we got to run our systems.

You know, if people don't know what path to follow, they'll go anywhere.

And so, yeah, we just give them the right directions.

Good stuff, y'.

All.

Well, thanks for being on the show.

This has been great, everybody.

Reach out if you are looking for a great place to.

To work in Mississippi or you want to travel and move to Mississippi.

It's a.

It's a gorgeous area.

Lots of greenery, lots of.

Lots of hunting and fishing.

I know for sure.

And it's a cool place to be.

So reach out to pjampo heating and air.

And if you want to talk to Mary about what she is doing with campo, I know that she is actively talking to other companies to do the same type of implementation work with their companies.

So she can get you lined out as well.

So here to support everyone in the industry.

So thanks for being on the show, y'.

All.

Thanks for listening, everybody as well.

You know how we end this.

Until next time, everybody.

You go be someone worth buying from.

You've been listening to the close it now podcast.

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We hope you've enjoyed the show.

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See you next time, Sam.