All

right, everybody.

Welcome to another

episode of,

uh, the Mindful

Builder podcast.

As always, I'm

joined by my co

host, Matthew Carlin.

How are you, mate?

Good, Hamish.

How are you?

I am very good

and also very excited

about today's guests.

Um, today's guest

is by far the most

famous person that we

have had on so far.

, she has appeared on

Home and Away, All

Saints, Secret Life

of Us, and probably

a Favorite silver

chair songs, and a

song on the film clip.

Her voice over work

is too vast to list

here, but you have no

doubt heard her on a

very familiar COVID

vaccine ad that was

played multiple times.

, obviously over the past

few years, but what

does any of this have

to do with building?

Well, absolutely

nothing.

, but Sarah's recent

ventures has her

championing renewables,

electric cars,

getting off the gas.

And fighting trolls,

Sarah Albury.

Welcome to the

mindful builder

Wow.

That was such

a deep dive.

I was like, someone

looked at my IMDB.

I mean, when you

say I've been on

Home and Away, like

a guestie, so blink

and you miss me on

any of those things.

My, my acting

career has not

been, the major

part of my career.

Certainly voiceovers.

, you know, it was like

99 percent of what I've

done, but, doing the

acting work obviously

led to voiceovers.

And, uh, I just liked

the idea of being a,

Small, dark booth and

no one knew who I was.

That was my

ultimate plan.

well it's crazy

because Hamish and

I have just logged

onto this video and

we have sort of got

all the gear, no idea,

and then we look at

Sarah's setup and

we're like, oh fuck.

the whole, booth there,

perfect microphone.

Yes.

For anyone listening

at home, I do have a

very nice, uh, yes,

voiceover booth.

Hey, Sarah,

tell us a little

bit about yourself

and I guess why we

connected and I guess

the connection between

what Matt and I do as

a business and what

you're now doing, love

to hear that backstory.

All

well, I think my

big gateway into this

was actually listening

to Saul Griffith's

The Big Switch.

And there was one

thing in that.

Actually, no, before

that, I was interested

in electric cars and

I became an admin

of probably one of

the biggest Facebook

groups in Australia

about electric cars

called Electric

Vehicles for Australia.

And I just was

fascinated by this

amazing technology.

I got into a Model S

like nine years ago

and I was sitting in

the passenger seat and

nearly lost my lunch

because it had like

ludicrous mode and

it was just amazing.

I was like, this

is the future.

So I sort of started

there, was doing

the adminning stuff.

And then.

Saul Griffiths said

in his book, he said,

Electrifying your house

is just as effective as

buying an electric car.

And I thought, well,

with COVID I actually

had canceled my order

for a model three

because I was no longer

driving like I was, I

was working from home.

And I thought,

well, Why don't

I put that money?

Some of that money I

had for an electric

car into the house.

And our biggest thing

with the house was

that, you know, it

was built in 1908.

It's a

Federation house.

it was freezing

in winter and our

energy bills over

winter were over 42

kilowatt hours a day.

Like shocking.

Oh, you know, 15

year old ducted

air the previous

owner had put in.

I was like, this house

can just function

much than it does.

And so anyway, we,

we started, we got

the house assessed

by a scorecard

assessor and it was 2.

9 stars out of 10.

so we put in solar,

a heat pump, We

took out the duct

today, which we'd

already had repaired

a couple of times.

And you know, the

ducting was at the

end of its life.

Uh, we took that out

and put in energy

efficient wall

splits and induction

stove, got off gas,

essentially, topped up

the roof insulation,

put a ceiling fan

in the bedroom.

, underfloor insulation.

And we actually

replaced the glass

in our sash windows

with a double laminate

and , they sort of

put this amazing draft

proofing stuff around

the windows too.

So now when we open

our windows, they go

shh, instead of brrrr.

So brilliant

on that front.

And good acoustically

as well, cause we're

near the airport , so

with all that stuff,

then we got the

assessor back and

she came back and

reassessed it and it

was a 10 star home,

which obviously is

easier to achieve in

Sydney than it would

be say in Victoria.

, but yeah, now we're

using a quarter of

the electricity in

winter that we used

to from the grid.

And we've only got a 4.

6 kilowatt, 4.

7 kilowatt solar array.

No battery,

anything like that.

So pretty amazing.

Do you have

good orientation?

it's okay.

It's sort of the

living area is at the

back of the house.

There is sort of

Northwest facing.

So yeah, it's

all right.

We've got, we have

limitations with

our roof because

it's slight.

so we can only have it

on the tin at the back.

So unfortunately,

would love to have more

on that roof, but we

cannot at this point

So read the book,

but then how do you go

from that stage where

you Start, I need to

educate other people

because you've done it

yourself and now it's

because I

done it myself,

I was so amazed.

and thrilled.

Then of course I

started to learn

much more about it.

I'm actually training

to be a, an energy

assessor at the moment.

So I've done the

prerequisite TAFE

training in order

to go and do the,

you know, the actual

software training

now with Scorecard.

I just would bang on

to everyone that I

could speak to about

how good electric

cars were, how good

e bikes are, how good

getting off gas is.

and it was starting to

filter out with friends

and they were asking

me about heat pumps

and getting off gas

and that sort of thing.

And at the same time

I was, I'd gotten

back on X or Twitter

when the election was

happening to sort of

really follow what

was going on with the

election, how the press

were covering that.

And follow it started

following a lot of

climate scientists.

I was, it's really.

Scary when you follow

just that stuff.

And I was feeling

quite powerless

following that stuff.

And I thought,

well, what can I do

personally to try

and help like provide

solutions to people and

even just little things

like draft proofing and

stuff like that, that

you can do yourself

around the house.

And so I thought,

look, my skills are

in communication.

Obviously, Not

talking to camera.

That's not really

part of my wheelhouse,

but I just thought,

well, might as

well give it a go.

So I started my

Instagram on the 9th

of December, 2023.

So only a few

months ago.

And just, you know,

had about 62 followers

on Christmas day.

And on Christmas day,

I did a post and this

is what kicked it off.

I did a post because

there are about 15.

fossil fuel comments

on this post

that I had done.

I was like, Oh,

it's a bit weird.

God, I've only

got 62 followers.

It's only a two

week old account.

Anyway, my post was

literally that was

18 seconds long and

it was, isn't that

interesting, this

account is, what,

two, three weeks old.

It was only two weeks

old and already the

fossil fuel trolls

have found it.

Isn't that interesting

and revealing?

And that's all I said.

And did I ever.

So from that The fossil

fuel trolls obviously

took great offense to

me drawing attention

to their antics.

I was smashed by so

many fossil fuel trolls

and comments and abuse.

By the end of that

day, there was

like 500 comments

on that one thing.

By like a couple of

days later, I had a

thousand followers.

And then a few more

days after that, within

a week, I had 50.

5, 000 followers.

So what they had

actually done is the

algorithm just sees

engagement and goes,

Oh, that's obviously

very interesting and

pushes that post out.

So not only did it

push it out to anti

you know, renewables

people, there was

one hashtag by the

way, on that post,

it was hashtag

electrification.

That was it.

I got pushed out to

the anti people, but

obviously got pushed

out to the people

who are interested

in this stuff.

So it just grew

and grew and grew.

And so it's not even

five months old,

it'll be five months

old next month.

So if the trolls

didn't troll you,

they wouldn't have

a problem right now.

Correct.

They, they a hundred

percent tried to

kill the account.

I mean, it's, it's

at 58, 000 people now

and they absolutely,

it was a coordinated

effort to try and stop

the account to try and

shut me down to try

and just overwhelm me.

Um, and in fact,

Instagram limited

my ability to reply.

I couldn't reply

to the posts.

It was like,

there's too much

activity going on.

Some weird

thing happened.

It was like, which was

actually good because

I could kind of step

back from it cause I

wasn't engaging and

that would have been

really exhausting

trying to sort of.

You know, counter that.

and it hasn't stopped.

It's just every single

day there will be some

post about against,

especially electric

cars anything pro, you

know, I can fill my

car up in two minutes,

electric cars are crap.

They're bad.

The bad for the

environment.

One is a big one that,

you know, the African

mines and completely

ignoring the fact

that the fossil fuel

industry is wildly

worse for the planet.

But anyway, there

let's,

let's touch on

the trolls for a

Hmm.

what are the

things that most, like

the common posts you

just start touch on a

few and how do you go

about going back at

them because you're

not shy about replying?

it depends on my

mood whether I reply.

Sometimes I just

leave it and I just

My biggest thing

I've learned is to

just restrict them.

So everyone gets

one go, you know,

what, what you choose

to write on that

account is up to you.

But if I restrict

them, it means they

don't know they've

been restricted, but

if they keep posting,

no one will see their

future comments, which

to me is hilarious.

And in fact, I did

a post about that.

And a lot of people

seem to be very amused

by that because, that's

how you control it.

And so I scroll through

a very occasionally

I'll scroll through

and I can just see

restricted comment,

restricted, they're

just like screaming

into the void, which

is pretty funny.

Are these

real people or are

they just bots?

it's

hard to tell.

I think some are

definitely bots.

some don't even have

profile pictures

and they're like

Steve Smith, seven,

eight, one, two, you

know what I mean?

it's clearly

being created.

But then there's ones

that maybe a lot of

them don't have a

part that haven't

posted anything.

That is a real, but

then there could

be troll farms.

They could be you know,

advanced probably is

doing a lot of stuff

I would imagine.

It's certainly

coordinated and it

seems to go in waves.

That's sort of

what I've noticed.

sad their

lives must be though.

That's like their

thing getting on and

trolling people.

I do think

there's people who

are real accounts

who just enjoy it.

Like there's certainly

real accounts and,

and percent of it, I

would say are men or

pretending to be men.

Like I'm like, On

top of being trolled,

there's a lot of,

I think, misogyny.

and they try weird

tactics like that.

They try weird stuff

like attacking my age.

They say I'm ugly.

They say I'm stupid.

I have no idea what

I'm talking about.

You know, the classic

diminish someone, you

know, put them down.

Um, you know,

you've got crazy

eyes or you've

got this and that.

It's like, I can

see what you did.

Like, do you

think I'm stupid?

because I admin that

electric vehicle group

for so long, I've

seen it all right.

I've never had

it personally

directed at me.

So that is different,

but it is interesting

to sort of go, if I

was young and starting

out, How would I

feel about that?

And wasn't quite

as emotionally

prepared for that.

Potentially someone

would have gone

right and packing

up the campsite and

walking away, which

is what they wanted.

And that worries

me because this

is coordinated

to try and stop.

They do not want

short, shareable,

simple information

getting out.

That it is easy,

that it is better.

They don't want

that getting out.

They don't want that

on the, they want

to be able to smash

it and shut it down.

So why

is it better?

why is going off gas

or petrol cars or

diesel cars better?

Well, purely for

my own experience in

the house, the minute

we got rid of that gas

stove, I could breathe

better in the house.

the air quality

in the home was

immediately better.

So we had an unfluid

gas heater in the

lounge room as well,

and we would get

headaches, dizziness

blocked nose.

And you could

tell, right?

You could tell.

But, but when we

did get off gas,

it was summer.

So the gas heater

wasn't out.

But even with that

gas stove, I noticed

that the air quality

in the house was

immediately better.

And we're saving money.

And gas leaks at

multiple points too.

It leaks, it leaks

when we mine it, it

leaks at our, our meter

board, it leaks inside.

it's not great stuff.

And I think a lot

of the time with any

sort of these things

is everyone thinks

about environmental

side of things or

the cost benefit,

but it's the health,

health is number one.

Like it is

the

number one thing.

and I think

that's something we

don't talk about with

electric cars enough.

Yes, you save money

by having an electric

car, in terms of

maintenance and running

costs, but the trolls

love to talk about how

the resources that go

into an electric car,

yes, in the production

part, there are more

resources that go

into that and more

emissions, but they

fail to talk about the

lifetime emissions of

that car that once you

get both those cars

on the road, you are.

forever putting a dirty

fossil fuel into that

car that takes massive

resources to get that

petrol to the bowels

and put it in your car.

And then the tailpipe

emissions, and then the

health problems caused

by the pollution.

So it's all that sort

of holistic stuff.

But Ultimately, health

wise, it's better all

round, but also much

better for the planet.

Like a cleaner,

quieter planet.

What a terrifying idea.

How awful.

hypothetically,

like, what if some

of this, some of

this is wrong?

Doesn't it just

make more sense to

have a healthier,

better place?

what if it might

be a little bit

more expensive?

Who cares?

Like, we're not

dealing with, like,

fine particulate

matter outside, or

nitrogen dioxide, all

these other things,

really

harmful.

We just accept

that we're being

. That's the part that

does my head in.

Like all this stuff

about electric cars

with trolling, like,

Oh, I can fill up my

car in two minutes and

I'll be on the road.

I'm like, that,

that's great.

But your kids, like

that's leaking into the

cabin of the car too.

Your kids are being

poisoned by that.

Like we just

accept, I live near

very busy roads.

So pollution is

actually very

important to me.

I live near an

unfiltered ventilation

stack from a tunnel.

Very near me.

It was two of them

near me actually.

And I'm, I'm just

like, that's supposedly

world's best practice.

And there's a primary

school nearby.

I'm just like,

that's madness.

That that's acceptable.

And I walk along

these busy roads

and you can like,

it's just horrible.

And just, you just

look at trucks and

go, they're so dirty.

Those are the

things, all those.

Last mile delivery

vehicles that, that

we really should be

trying, you know,

all those little

supermarket delivery,

smaller trucks, all

that stuff we could

work on right now and

get that stuff done.

But it's money, you

know, it's really

frustrating that money

is the thing with

this that makes it

not possible for a lot

of people to do it.

There are things

that you can do to

your home, but also

that there should be

minimum standards.

I think with any kind

of building, like

in the ACT, how you

can't rent or sell

a place without it

having the energy

star rating displayed.

I'm like, that should

be a national policy.

And that the average

Australian home is only

three stars out of 10.

I'm like, what

are we doing?

Like It's only going to

get hotter and colder.

So we need to make

our homes resilient

to these things.

You know, I live in a

temperate place, but

it's becoming less

and less temperate.

when I moved into this

house, it was exactly

like it, apart from

the ducted air, like it

was exactly like it was

a hundred years ago.

The windows, a hundred

year old glass,

same floorboards,

same everything.

And you're like, that's

just how we live.

And we go, okay, cool.

But the weather

is changing.

So we need to prepare

ourselves and get

our houses, our

houses in order.

So we say,

That's why

getting so much

pushback or so many

trials because the

energy companies are

realizing this and

they're probably just

trying to squash it

down and restrict

that education.

Because I think all

the things you're

talking about now come

down to education.

And I know Matt and

I live in a bubble

right now where

all our clients are

coming to us for a

solution and it's

all high performance.

It's all all electric.

They want HRVs.

They want, uh,

a healthy home.

Whereas if you

kind of step out of

that bubble, people

don't know that.

People just know what

they know.

And because, you know,

we're so influenced

by the volume builders

who are building, you

know, one step above.

being illegal.

You know, the star

rating is really

just a box that

they're ticking.

Oh, we'll just put

some solar panels on

the roof and put a,

we'll put a, uh, water

tank out the back and

right, we've got our

seven star happy days.

But the biggest

problem is none

of it's checked.

It's not actually

checked during

construction.

I've gone on a little

bit of a tangent there,

but just want to circle

back to the people

that are trolling you.

You're definitely

hitting a nerve

with that.

that is clear and I

just actually love

that you actually

hitting a nerve with

them is only amplifying

your voice even more.

and I

laugh at them.

They hate being.

Laughed at.

I have

and they

hate that I draw

attention to them.

And actually they

create content for me

because a lot of the

stuff that they write,

I think, Oh, I'm going

to do a video on that.

Like cobalt, they go

on and on about cobalt.

And I'm like, well,

do you drive a petrol

car or a diesel car?

Cause cobalt is used

in the refining of.

Fossil fuels of

petrol and diesel.

And if you really care

about those children

in Africa, you should

sell that and you

should buy an, an

electric car with an

LFP battery, which does

not contain cobalt if

you really cared about

it, they just hate it.

So I was like, Oh God,

It's a case if

you don't know what you

don't know sometimes,

but they pick one

little argument and

just run with it.

Just because they

saw that most

likely on another

Instagram feed or a

social media thing.

Like they've not

looked into it.

It's popped up on their

algorithm due to their

confirmation bias and

their who knows what

fucking rabbit hole

they're down to be

really honest with you.

absolutely.

I mean, there's a

weird rabbit hole

that I've, a few

people hit me when

I was talking about

heaters in Bunnings,

you know, and how

inefficient they are.

Oh God, the number

of people that went,

just get a fire, just

get a fire, use a

fireplace and and then

someone sent me this

one of this guy and

it must, it's this

blokey guy and like,

you know, lumberjack

type vibes going, yeah,

it's the only way to

like cook and to heat

your home is with

like a, a fireplace.

And I'm like, mhm.

Well, there's a

reason why we stopped

using that in cities,

and it's called

the air quality.

And I'm sure

your neighbors

hate your guts.

I'm sure that they

love not being able to

hang out their washing

and live their lives.

So I, I just got

a photo from one of

my clients last night

of their HIV filter.

They about to change

it over and it was real

black, like super black

compared to the white

one and I actually

asked them, does any

of your neighbors have

a wood fire next door

and they're like, yup

and you can visibly

see it and I, I know

that Drew's sort of

spoken about this who

does all our HIVs.

He has someone

behind his house

and he's constantly

burning something.

He's constantly Always

having to filter out

that air or filter out

that sort of particular

matter and we don't get

all of it with bushfire

smoke or any smoke.

It doesn't actually

filter everything that

the smoke will always

get through, but it's

getting, it's just

getting least getting

most of it, but it's

crazy when you see it

and you visually see

it and you're just

Yeah.

That's shocking.

Yeah, I also

just want to loop

back to when we go

back to abuse and

you've copped abuse.

How do you

deal with it?

is it times when it

just gets to you?

Yeah, I guess

sometimes, I mean, you

know, there's been some

pretty horrible things

that, there's been some

quite funny things.

Someone called

me a green Karen.

I thought that

was hilarious.

And that's actually

the best thing I've

been called, but

you know, I've been

called things like

what was a good one?

Oh, unbearably smug,

which I love because

that means I'm

really annoying them.

It's more

the personal

ones where they

probably attack you.

Like when they come

up with like the

kind of like the the

witty sleds you're

probably like That's

actually funny.

But it's a real

personal ones.

It's the ones

where they just.

you know,

saying I've got crazy

eyes or whatever, I'm

like, I mean, I did

a unit of psychology.

I'm not calling myself

clever on any level,

but I think I've always

been quite fascinated

and as an actor as

well, you're fascinated

in human behavior.

I'm able to step back

from it and sort of

see it for what it is.

And I can see what

they're doing.

They're trying

different tactics.

They'll try the,

are bad for the

environment.

They'll try the

personal attacks

this week.

it's almost like,

Oh, Oh, this week

it's that, is it,

you know, last week

it was my tone.

They didn't like my

tone, which I think

is a particular thing.

I think that's said to

women rather than men.

You know, I don't

like your tone, you're

really condescending

and I don't like it.

And I'm like,

interesting.

So that's what's

going on this week.

And it's all just to

try and rattle me.

And I find it, I

mean, I find it quite

more fascinating

than anything.

Yeah, I

If you're a

male do you reckon

you would have more

success in convincing

these people?

I don't, I

don't think they're

there to be convinced.

whether I be a

man or a woman, I

think I'm there.

For the people who

are curious about this

stuff and have heard

about it or thinking

about it or care, like

they're starting to

worry and, you know,

they believe in climate

change for starters

worried about their

kids futures, that

sort of thing, and

maybe people who are

teetering on the fence.

Certainly it seems

to have shifted

from climate change

isn't real to it's

not that bad or

renewables don't work.

You know, they're toys,

electric cars are bad

for the environment.

You put down

the solutions.

And that seems to be

the tactic they've

shifted to, because

you can't really

say anymore, climate

change isn't real.

Cause everyone can

literally say before

the virus, the

climate is changing.

Yeah, I don't know.

think I just

want to quickly just

touch on the fact that

what we're actually

talking about is

Sarah's Instagram page

called Electrify This.

Um, And I actually

don't know if we,

uh, we brought that

up just before.

And it's actually

how Sarah and I

got connected.

And I can't remember

who alerted me

to your Instagram

page, but like I

immediately thought

this information is so

valuable and important.

And I got so excited

when I saw the number

of followers you

had, then it might've

been at like 40,

000 or something.

And to see that jump

like another 18, 000

in the last three

weeks, I'm hoping.

In my heart that

there's more followers

on there who are

following it for the

right reasons than

followers on there

that want to troll you.

What is your

experience with that?

I've had a lot

of unfollows, so I'm

thinking the trolls

started following, you

know, probably within

every month there's a

good 1800 unfollows.

So they start

following, then

they realize I'm not

going to give up.

, okay, I'll

unfollow you.

I've noticed actually

the following has

really slowed down.

Which is a shame

because I think the

algorithm eventually

goes, Oh, let's move

on to the new thing.

So that really, the

only way we'll probably

grow from here on is

people do share stuff.

But it's still growing,

and people follow it

for different reasons.

I think that's the

big thing as well.

I try to kind of jump

around because some

people are following

me for the house

stuff, you know,

the, just the draft

proofing, insulation,

electrification.

Some people

follow me for the

electric car stuff.

Some people follow

me for the urbanism

and e bike stuff.

But it's all under

the umbrella of

decarbonization.

So, you know, that's

kind of a theme and

I'm on TikTok as well.

Just, it's just not

very big on TikTok.

so obviously

residential sector

is one element.

How about say we look

at a commercial or

like the mining sector?

Because the

mining sector is

a huge, they're

contributing way

more than what we do.

How do we address

something like that?

I think

that comes down to

government and it comes

down to governments not

being so friendly with

these companies and

giving them tax breaks

and subsidizing them.

And I think the

problem we have is

that we had the mining.

scare tactics

with, when labor

were in, right?

and they were booted

out of government.

A big part of that

was what the mining

industry did to

get rid of them.

And I think right

now they're scared

of something like

that happening

again, because

they are powerful.

Money talks.

money talks

and well, money

and controlling

the media talks.

So I think.

We need to think more

like if we are going

to have a fossil

fuel industry that

we export and do all

those things, we need

to start taxing them

like Norway does.

And instead of it

only being, you know,

really, really low

being 78 percent and

then we'll see what

happens and then use

that money at the

very least to put

into, making Every

single house raising

the star rating, you

know, putting that

money into back into

our residential sector

in particular, into

our residential homes,

especially for renters.

They've got no choice.

This is the people I

worry about the most.

They can't put

solar panels on.

No landlord's

going to do that.

And, you know, every

rental I ever lived

in didn't have a wall

split and I like, it

should be mandatory

that it has a certain

level of insulation,

at least one reverse

cycle air conditioner.

And, you know, you

have to display

the star rating.

Let's start there and

let's pay for it all

by increasing, you

know, the royalties.

Did you, I was

listening to follow

the money, which is a

great podcast by the

Australia Institute.

Offshore gas does

not pay royalties.

I think there's

one offshore gas

plant that does.

I mean, what

are we doing?

Like, that's

just obscene.

The Australian people

are being rorted.

Our resources are

being taken and we're

also being charged

overseas prices for

our own resources.

There's so much wrong

with all that stuff.

And we need to

obviously not

be Issuing new

licenses, but I think

ultimately it comes

down to government.

we can't personally

change that.

We can do things

where we stop using

those things as much.

Sure.

And we can make

our houses use less

energy and it just be

electric, but we can't

personally decarbonize

the grid unless we

put rooftop solar on.

don't, I don't think

it's fair to put that

on the individual,

you know, that whole

carbon footprint

thing, and it was BP.

There was an ad agency

that was working for

BP in the nineties.

And even though that

they didn't invent it,

they co opted it to put

that on the individual

rather than on the

fossil fuel companies.

That was the whole

point of that.

So we have this guilt

then thinking, Oh,

well, it's all on us.

And it all seems a

bit overwhelming.

And then we do nothing.

And it's like,

actually, no, we need

to put the focus back

on those companies to,

I mean, they've got all

the money in the world.

They could be building

renewable things left,

right, and center.

And they choose not

to, because they're

not going to make

as much money.

Oh

about nuclear

a lot at the moment,

and I know you've done

some videos on this.

So like, that's,

that's the discussion

topic at the

Uh, rather

than talking about

nuclear, I want to

talk about why are we

talking about nuclear?

, why are we hearing

so much about

it in the press?

What's behind that?

Why every time Dutton

opens his mouth, do

we hear him use the

word nuclear or one of

the nationals does it?

We're doing that

because we're trying

to delay the rollout

of renewables and

we're trying to

extend the life of

our coal plants.

Purely the

reason for it.

We are a country with,

I think possibly, if

not the most abundant,

one of the most

abundant renewables.

As in resources of

renewables in the

world, we as a nation

do not personally

need nuclear and

small nuclear

reactors do not exist.

That is a technology

that does not exist.

It's unproven.

It's like carbon

capture and storage.

So I think it's a

very cynical ploy.

Also, there are

certain people that

have potentially,

shares in and money

and uranium mining and

all that sort of stuff

going on as well in

the background that

we don't know about.

But I just think it's

a cynical, cynical way

to try and delay that

move to renewables.

So how

about hydrogen?

Oh, in terms of

hydrogen I constantly

with electric cars get,

they're not the answer.

Hydrogen cars

are the answer.

We'll tell that to the

Toyota Mirai owners in

California who can't

even now power fuel

their vehicle because

all the fuel stations

are closing down and

their cars are now

virtually worthless.

It's like,

hydrogen will have

its place for.

Possibly heavy

transport and

certainly an industry

offshore wind off the

coast of Wollongong

and Newcastle.

You've got those

ports there.

Let's get the

industry happening.

Green hydrogen

all the way.

The reason fossil fuel

companies want hydrogen

right now is because

we don't have green

hydrogen at scale.

And right now

it would be blue

hydrogen, which is,

fossil fuel powered.

Oh, funny that.

So yeah, they love

the idea of that.

Bring it on, bring

on the hydrogen.

green hydrogen

is powered by

renewables, and a

lot of fossil fuel

companies will also.

Sometimes try to refer

to green hydrogen

from my understanding

that it's powered from

the grid, but there's

a big push to make

sure that it's no,

it has to be 100%.

So you can

actually prove that

it's renewables

It's like this

whole thing about, you

know, the gas industry

are trying to, push

the idea that gas is a

renewable or, you know,

even calling it natural

Or healthy gas or

clean

is, gas

is, gas is clean.

It's clean gas.

It's clean gas.

no one was kind

of believing that.

So then it became

the transition fuel.

Remember that one?

They're still

pushing that

one.

I think I

saw an ad, about

the gas boosting the

grid when it starts

raining or when it's at

nighttime where there's

not wind blowing.

And I thought it

was this kind of

feel good kind of ad

saying gas is coming

in to save the day.

well, those

gas peaker plants

like charge.

They're one of the

reasons that we

pay so much for our

electricity is because

they charge like 15

grand a kilowatt hour

or something like

something obscene or

some crazy amount for,

they're like, Oh, you

need us right now?

There's no

other choice.

Let me just charge

you so much money.

It's eye watering.

But also I would say.

always watch

the advertising.

Why is the gas industry

advertising right now?

Always ask yourself

the question, why

am I seeing that ad?

It's like, why are you

seeing so many ads for

hybrid cars right now?

Because of course the

car companies that

haven't transitioned

to electric cars

quickly enough, and

they maybe bet the

house on hydrogen

cars and that's

all fallen apart.

Well, All they have is

hybrids, so that's what

they're going to push.

Same with gas.

They're just going

to be like, no,

no, you need this.

And they're trying

to shape the

popular opinion.

That's what they're

trying to do with that.

So always

watch the ads.

I've seen way more

fossil fuel ads,

like for petrol and

stuff like that, but

they're not actually

advertising petrol.

They're advertising

coffee, food, the

convenience of

petrol stations.

You're there to fill

up, but Oh, I'll grab a

coffee while I'm at it.

And it's like, Oh

yeah, they don't

show you filling up.

Like what's

going on there?

What?

They're

very smart people.

Like you've got to

give them credit.

Like they, they are

super intelligent

and they are, they

playing on emotions.

And there's a

lot of work that goes

into the psychology

of, of, of The ads that

you watch and they go

through all kinds of,

they do the ad, you

do a pitch, you get a

room full of people,

and they're behind,

literally behind

you know, a one-way

mirror thing and

they're sitting there

and discussing what

they think of the ad.

And if people like

it, then they'll do a

bit more research and

then they'll, they'll

make the commercial.

But there's a lot of

work that goes into

whether people respond

to that, you know?

I've been

sitting here as if I've

actually been listening

to this podcast because

I've actually found it

incredibly interesting

listening to both of

you have a conversation

back and forth and I,

I feel like I haven't

been talking much.

I just want to circle

back just quickly

to something you

said about renters.

And obviously they

don't have a huge

amount of power

in making drastic

changes to their

home, but obviously

it's up to them to

heat and cool it.

So would you have some.

Low cost tips to anyone

renting to help reduce

the amount of heating

and cooling needed

Yes,

I would say.

Absolute game changer

and super cheap is

the heated throw.

So if you're sitting

in the lounge room,

half watching Netflix,

then that's probably

a good thing to buy.

Cause they, I just got

one the other day and

it's a hundred Watts.

So that's, you

know, virtually

nothing to run.

It's like an old

school light bulb.

mother's

day present is now

being sorted.

I would say

get a decent one.

I mean, you can

get them from Aldi,

but I just, it's an

electrical thing.

I wouldn't

go too cheap.

I got one from a place

called no affiliation,

reduction revolution.

And the thing I

liked about that, I

don't know what other

ones do, but you can

wash it about five

times in its life.

So I feel like

that's a good thing.

And it was.

German designed or

something, but I mean,

they're probably all

come from the same

place, but yeah,

brilliant solution

in terms of, we

still haven't turned

the air con on yet

because of that.

Other ways

to keep warm.

Don't buy one of

those horrible, you

know, blower heaters.

They're just shocking.

If you do need to heat

a room, then, and you

don't have aircon, I

would say maybe one

of those oil heaters,

you know, the little

radiators, because

you can at least turn

them down on low once

the room is warm.

Zone rooms is a big

thing, you know,

stuff like that.

People just don't know,

like closed doors, you

know, unfortunately

we live in this, open

plan living idea.

But I'm not, when

I was a renter,

I used to hang in

winter, a curtain

over the doorway

so that keep that

room warm and close

those wall coverings.

If you have curtains,

close them or blinds

or anything like that,

just keep them shut

because that window is

just a big hole, the

heat's just going out.

Right.

Keeping cool, I would

say, I mean, you

know, pedestal fan is

probably, and cross

ventilation if you

can, open windows to

get that across to

cool down the house

at the end of the day.

Close everything up,

close those windows up,

like, you know, air the

house in the morning as

best you can and then

just close everything

up when the heat comes

and then, you know,

open everything up at

the end of the day.

Yeah.

And a pedestal fan

is cheap to run.

if you do have an

air con if you're

lucky enough to have

a reverse cycle air

conditioner and it's

humid, put it on dry

mode because dry mode

uses less power and

it's not as cold, like

cooling is cold, I

find anyway, and we

use that all the time

and we were using, I

think about a third

of the electricity

when we turned it on

compared to when it's

on regular cooling.

think as Well,

when we go back to

looking at people

building houses,

so I'm just going

to jump to the non

renters and people

building for a second.

Going all electric

is cheaper.

let's just start there.

There's this

misconception

it's expensive.

So.

Generally, we've got

to fill out, we've

got to change our gas

line to upgrade the

gas line purely to

take the new load if

we're going to upgrade

from, if you want

to upgrade your gas

appliance, for example.

So cutting that out

is probably it negates

the whole, three phase

upgrade that you need.

So it's a

like for like.

there's two parts to

this that people get

concerned about is one

is like, oh, hot water.

Like at the end of

the day, no one gives

a fuck when you turn

your tap on, you're not

running outside to go.

Does it come from

an electric power

or gas power?

But, cooking with gas.

the one.

What are

isn't

it interesting?

So You know

that expression?

Now you're

cookin with gas.

That comes from a 1930s

advertising campaign

created for the gas

industry to convince

people to get rid of

their electric stoves

and put in gas stoves.

And we still

use that in our

vernacular today.

Now you're cooking.

I do think as well,

we need to have a

conversation with

designers, with

magazines, you know,

homeware magazines

with, people who

are renovator,

famous renovators.

Like, you know, there's

three birds renovations

girls and all those

kinds of people, and

then also cooking shows

and all that stuff we

need to holistically

all work together and

go, you know what?

Why don't we start

showing people what

induction looks like?

Why don't we just

show them the

benefits of it?

You know, someone

like Neil Perry

apparently uses

induction and loves it.

And he's a big, big

fan of it and talks

about it all the time.

We need more chefs.

We need more people

showing that it

works and that

there's even more.

I think the thing

is that people don't

realize there's

even more control.

I was about

to say this.

People think there's

more control with gas.

It's a visual thing.

You can see the flame

so you can adjust it.

But I know with the

induction cooktop,

you can actually

temper chocolate

on the induction.

do a test

and boil, a liter

of water, think it's

something like two

and a half minutes

for an induction

stove and over four

minutes for gas.

Like it's just

quicker as well.

Like it's just