Speaker: 00:00:00

the problem with interest not being aligned is that a lot of investors have really bad

mindset and a lot of property managers have really unhealthy businesses.

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Most property managers suck and most investors probably also suck.

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the best investors usually understand how advantageous a good property manager is.

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instead of going and finding property first, the smarter move is to go find a property

manager that's good first, because that property manager knows the market better than

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anybody.

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the best investors understand this if I find the right property manager and I pay them

well enough they're gonna protect my interest my investments and my time and attention and

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I don't have to think about the property.

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but you gotta find good property managers.

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And good property managers, you'll feel safe doing that with.

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Well, we have Jason Hall here and you can find what his team can help you with by going to

door grow.com.

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That's going to be a clickable link in the show notes.

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Jason, you also have a podcast too,

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I do.

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It's called The DoorGrow Show.

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It's a podcast for property management business owners.

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Yeah, you should definitely check that out as well.

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Really appreciate your time here, Jason.

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Absolutely glad to be here, Jack.

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Thanks for having me

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Yeah, it's been a while.

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And I hope we can shorten the next visit.

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But we're going to be talking all things property management and probably go down a

various number of rabbit holes here.

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But Jason, things have changed quite a bit in your business since the last time you've

been on.

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What's going on now?

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What's your primary focus?

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Well, mean, our primary focus is still coaching property management business owners and

helping them grow and scale.

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But we were really good at helping them add doors, but it would create a problem because

they had too many doors and then things start to fall apart.

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then we started really getting dialed in on coaching them on hiring, process, operations,

and planning.

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And so.

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Now we're able to really create what I call infinitely scalable property management

companies.

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Well, I don't know, based on what I've seen, this is definitely uh something that is

needed in the market.

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I mean, it's one of those things that, you know, with real deal crew, I don't know if you

check that out yet, but I help real estate investors with operations and automations and a

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few other things setting up the operations aspect of their of their business.

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And

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There's a lot of low hanging fruit there because it's it's surprising how many people

start companies.

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And they don't take a second to just do do some basic documentation, put some basic things

in place to, to free up that time and to make better use of their time.

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Yeah, yeah, we see that.

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I think that's in every business.

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So, yeah.

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get so busy with the with the details.

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It's hard to take a step back sometimes and put some processes in place.

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Yeah, so usually if a property manager comes to me, usually ask them like what just

identify or triage them.

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say, what would lower your stress more as a business owner more right now?

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Would it be adding another 200 units to your portfolio?

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Or would it be getting your team processes, systems and operations dialed in?

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And so depending on how they answer, I know which program we need to put them in and how

we can best help them.

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So.

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Usually people start with the challenge of growth and then they move on to the challenge

of operations.

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Sure.

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Well, know, a lot of people that are listening to this show, and I'm going to just speak

as an investor here now, I've definitely have found that it's really difficult to find a

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property manager where our interests are aligned.

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And could you talk a little bit to that?

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Maybe help us, guide us through the process on picking a good project, a property manager.

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Well, okay, so the problem with interest not being aligned is that a lot of investors have

really bad mindset and a lot of property managers have really unhealthy businesses.

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Most property managers suck and most investors probably also suck.

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And so the challenge is they both have different expectations and issues.

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yeah, the best investors usually understand how advantageous a good property manager is.

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So much so that instead of going and finding property first, the smarter move is to go

find a property manager that's good first, because that property manager knows the market

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better than anybody.

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They're actually in it constantly.

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They're working in it.

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They know what needs to be done to properties.

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They know which areas in that city or town are places you could or want to invest instead

of a rental.

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And so a lot of people don't start with property managers.

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They don't have property managers you trust.

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And then they're playing Russian roulette, hoping they could find one after they found a

property.

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And then a lot of times real estate agents, they're not motivated to help you find the

best rental asset ever.

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They're focused to sell whatever they can sell you so they can get their commission.

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And so a lot of them are not really giving you great advice as an investor.

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And so they're not the person to be talking to about an investment.

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A property manager would be much better suited, especially if they know I'm going to have

to deal with this later.

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I'm going to be more careful about giving you advice and letting you know whether a

property would be good or cashflow or run a pro forma on it for you.

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And they know how to look at it through the lens of an investor because most property

managers started their business because they were an investor.

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They couldn't find any property managers that were working well for them.

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So they decided to start a business themselves.

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That's almost the universal origin story of property management business owners.

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You mean property managers don't just start off, you're just not born a property manager?

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Yeah, there's not a lot of kids walking around saying I want to be a property manager when

I grow up.

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So, no.

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Yeah, it's one of those things that you end up doing some self property management.

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But in the end, it's like investors were probably some of the worst when it comes to

actually wanting to deal with the tenants.

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Because it's just one of those situations.

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It becomes a big pain in the butt.

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But

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for as much as we would like to believe, we kind of step outside of the situation.

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It's easy for us to get manipulated by the residents sometimes.

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I think, well, maybe I'm speaking to my own situation.

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No, I think that's accurate.

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think with investors, the challenge is there's a lot more emotional involvement.

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I mean, you have to remember like a property manager has heard every excuse for not for

people paying rent late or they've heard they've heard all the stories.

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They're basically now immune to this stuff.

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But if you're a property owner, you're and you're having to deal with your own tenant,

you're not insulated.

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You're not protected.

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and there's emotions connected to things.

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And so it's difficult to make business decisions when there's a lot of emotion involved.

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And, you know, it's easier to fall prey to their BS or to stories or to drama or to get

become part of the drama that they're involved in and have a bleeding heart and stuff like

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this.

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Like during the pandemic, lot of some of the investors I knew said they were down 50

percent in rent.

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But I'm connected to a lot of property management business owners and they didn't have

issues getting rent during that time.

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But it's because people came, oh, pandemic's hard, it's tough, like money, whatever.

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And they're like, okay, I guess we gotta do stuff.

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But property managers are like, well, you have to live, you still have to pay rent.

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they just assumed you're gonna continue to do it.

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Were there some bad actors that stopped paying rent or didn't do stuff or?

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had some hardship, sure, but it was like really small.

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It was surprisingly small.

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In fact, the only property managers that really dealt with significant issues are the ones

that pre-framed the problem.

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They emailed all their tenants, say, hey, if you're having problems with rent, let us

know, we'll work with you.

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So they presupposed that there were gonna be problems and they created problems.

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But the ones that didn't do anything like that and just acted like nothing was happening,

everybody was still paying rent.

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And so that's the challenge is when you allow, you get what you tolerate basically, and

you get what you allow.

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And it's difficult.

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And that's why property managers exist because the three most complained about things on

the planet just might be landlords, tenants, and rental properties.

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And a good property manager is this magical superhero.

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If they're good, that makes all three behave better.

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And they're in the middle.

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And so it's not an easy job.

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But if they have good systems, if they have good boundaries, if they have a healthy

mindset, like they can make this work really well.

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And it's a really great systemizable business.

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Yeah.

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But most property managers suck.

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Like, let's be real.

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So, and there's reason, I don't know if I mentioned this when we last were together, like

five years ago, wow.

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but there's this cycle suck that kind of property managers fall into where they take on

any client.

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and then they have crappy clients by default.

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And so in any business, you have to filter what you take on.

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Just like an investor can't take on every property.

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Not every property would be a good investment.

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Not every owner is good for a property manager to manage.

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And not every property is good.

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So if the owners are bad, then the properties are bad.

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And then the tenants become bad because now they're, you know, the owner's pushing back on

things, being difficult.

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And so the tenants now frustrated.

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even if they did all the tenant screening in the world and they had A grade credit, if the

owner's a cheapo and the owner's difficult on things and the owner's like trying to get

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you to, you know, it takes two weeks to get the water heater replaced because they've got

to have like four different guys give bids and you know, property managers know how to

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keep things moving and they know how to find that balance because they're negotiating for

all parties but their primary interest is to protect the owner.

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That's their client.

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And so,

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But if they have bad owners, bad properties, bad tenants, that leads to a bad reputation.

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And that then attracts bad reviews and then that attracts more bad clients.

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And so they end up in this spiraling, downward spiral I call the cycle of suck.

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And that sums up the whole industry in aggregate.

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That's the majority of property managers.

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They feel kind of desperate.

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They're trying to do digital marketing stuff to grow their business.

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They're wasting a lot of that money.

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then they're attracting usually the crappiest clients that are at end of the sales cycle

that are looking just, they view property management as a commodity and think they're all

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the same.

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So they're just looking for the cheapest one.

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And those are the cheapest owners and they have the highest operational costs for a

manager to deal with.

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a bad owner and a bad property for a property manager could be 10 times, even a hundred

times more operational expense for them or cost or time than a good owner and a good

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property.

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And this is where property managers fail is they aren't filtering enough.

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And so if they take on any owner, any property, and then you're an investor and you go to

a property manager, you might be one of the good ones.

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You might have a good property, you might be a good owner, you want to the property

maintained well, you have a long-term vision for this property as an asset, but your

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property manager is using your revenue from your property that he's making.

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to subsidize all the crappy ones that are in his portfolio that he's losing money on.

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And a lot of property managers are losing money on owners and losing money on units that

they're managing, but because it's all kind of lumped into one pile, they don't even see

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it.

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So this is some of the stuff like we work with clients on at DoorGrow to help them clean

it up.

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Like I had a client come to me once with 600 units and they were making zero dollars in

their property management business.

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Can you imagine?

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And they had a...

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the team that was twice as big as it needed to be.

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After I coached him, he fired 250 units from his business and half of his team.

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And he had way more margin because it's kind of the 80-20 rule in the negative.

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Like 80 % of their problems and operational challenges and phone calls and tenant issues

and stuff were caused by 20 % of the owners and properties, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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And so this is some of the challenges that property management companies deal with, which

is why there's a lot of bad ones.

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So there's milestones though of development that I've identified over time.

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Different stages, different problems they deal with, and it can be a really great business

if they do it right.

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Well, you brought up a couple things there that I kind of want to dive into for a second.

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One of them is that I really, you you talked about spiraling out of control.

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And I think that the bigger lesson there, and I've brought it up in previous episodes is

the fact that what we focus on grows.

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And we can see that as a positive.

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And we see that a lot of people talk about that in the positive.

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But we can also see that in the negative.

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m Yeah.

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if we get focused on putting on Band-Aids to fix a problem or we're in a situation where

it's just a negative mindset and we start to constantly focus on the negative, more

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negative stuff is going to happen.

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in this example you gave where the 80-20 rule, we're just scrambling and we're trying to

fix something.

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And sometimes, in a way, we kind of create more problems instead of taking that needed

step back and focusing on the positive side of the business, if I'm making sense there.

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Yeah, I think a lot of times it's easy as business owners to optimize for the wrong thing.

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We get too caught up in the drama or in the problems and we start trying to optimize.

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Like one mistake property managers make is instead of determining whether calls should be

happening at all, like tenants calling them, owners should be calling them, instead of

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doing that, they try to optimize for being able to take every call from every tenant and

every owner all the time.

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And that becomes basically for a property manager, that's like writing a blank check that

they give to every tenant and owner that says, steal all of my profits, call me anytime

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you want to.

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And that's not profitable because people are expensive and having team members are

expensive.

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And so it's very easy if you write that blank check as a property manager to not have a

healthy business.

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And so it really is about setting boundaries and really the smartest investors.

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find property managers they can trust and they let the manager manage it.

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I know that's wild but they actually let the manager do the management which means you're

not calling them you're not checking on them you're not micromanaging your manager to

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manage your property.

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And the best investors understand this they understand if I find the right property

manager and I pay them well enough they're gonna protect my interest my investments and my

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time and attention and I don't have to think about the property.

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but you gotta find good property managers.

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And good property managers, you'll feel safe doing that with.

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Yeah.

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And just to remind everybody we're talking to Jason Hall at door grow you can find more

information there at door grow.com that's going to be a clickable link in the show notes.

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You know, this show only grows if you share it with an investor friend so please consider

doing that and if you're watching us on YouTube, give us a like and subscribe.

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One of the things that I'm going to point a finger back at the investors is it goes to the

old adage of buying the property right at the beginning, because I have a feeling that

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some of this pain and micromanaging that you're pointing out is coming from the fact that

we're watching every penny because we didn't buy the property at the right price.

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Is that what you're saying?

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We're trying to band-aid again.

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it's not the right price or it's just not a property they should have invested in at all.

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Or they bid off more than they can chew financially.

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Because, I mean, what happens if the HVAC goes out and you have to spend 11 grand?

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Do you have resources available to take care of the property?

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So good property managers will ask questions like this and they say, if you don't, you

should sell this now.

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Like you should get out of it.

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Because one of these things happen, you'll be upside down, you'll be in a difficult

situation.

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So, know, good property managers will help you assess your position as an investor to

figure out, are you in a good position?

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If not, then maybe you need to get out of that property and get into something that makes

more sense for what your goals are.

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But that's where, you know, finding a good property manager first is better than finding a

property first, for sure.

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I think the biggest mistake investors make is to not

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get a property manager.

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It's probably one of the biggest mistakes because they want to have a turnkey investment.

219

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They want to make money passively, passive real estate income, but it's not passive if

you're a manager, if you're doing it yourself.

220

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I don't know if I saw it on your website or it might have been in the email that was sent

over, but you made the statement that, you know, why property management is the real path

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to passive income in real estate.

222

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Is that what you're referring to there with that line?

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Yeah, because if you have somebody that you trust as a partner to take care of the asset

and make sure that it's cash flowing and make sure that people are paying rent and make

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sure that maintenance being done and make sure it's getting leased and marketed and all

this stuff, and you're not having to do all of that, then yeah, if you have a good

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partner, then it becomes a passive investment.

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But otherwise, you have to do all that stuff.

227

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It's not passive at all.

228

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It's very active.

229

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A lot of investors, once they hit four units, they realize they have a new part-time job.

230

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I would imagine too that I don't and I think this is really under looked is the fact that

a good partnership with a property manager could also generate some of your best leads for

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acquiring additional properties.

232

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Yeah, so property managers have direct access to off-market deals.

233

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This is one of the great secrets.

234

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Like if you are an investor and you want to get access to the best off-market deals, you

might want to consider if you're already managing a decent sized portfolio, you basically

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already have a management company that you've built.

236

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And you may want to start doing a third party because it's going to feed you a lot of

deals.

237

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So I'll give you an example.

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I've got a client right now.

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He has, I think, somewhere around 300 units.

240

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but he owns all of them.

241

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Now he advertises that he does third party management, but when people come to him for

management, he basically has conversations with them about the long term, about them

242

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cashing out eventually and the tax implications connected to that.

243

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And then he says, well, what if there was a way you could avoid the tax implications?

244

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And he convinces them to do seller financing deals with them.

245

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And so he uses his property management business as third party, as a honeypot to just get

more ownership of property.

246

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And so there's creative opportunities like that.

247

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There's, know, property managers can put together syndication deals sometimes.

248

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You know, we've got a GallinR program that's working on a multimillion dollar fund in

Florida and getting investors, you know.

249

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And so property managers have access to a lot of off-market deals.

250

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And if they have an owner that's selling a property, it's totally in their best interest

to get one of their other owners to buy that property.

251

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And so if they have a deal that's there's like, yeah, I want to cash out of this, no

problem.

252

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They're going to put it out to their list, their audience.

253

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And some property managers, especially if they've been listening to me, there's systems

for this that get you access to a network of property management companies with these off

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market deals because the property manager listed on these networks because they want to

keep the property management, even if the owners change hands.

255

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m Yeah.

256

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so yeah, there's an opportunity.

257

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So if you're one of those investors and you're connected to the network through your

property manager, then yeah, you get access to off market deals.

258

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Those are the best deals.

259

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Sure.

260

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But you know, I would imagine, like, I'd like to cover a couple things.

261

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One of them is the economy right now.

262

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You know, with, we do some house flipping, and, uh you know, the market is soft for that

type of thing.

263

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Are you seeing the inverse when it comes to rental properties right now?

264

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are you seeing a lot of activity there?

265

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Like, tell me what the economy impacts.

266

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I mean, just in the last couple of weeks, I've been hearing, this is very anecdotal, but

I'm hearing from a lot of clients and property management business owners that they're

267

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having trouble getting things rented lately.

268

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That, you know, people are just, and this is probably partially just because of the

season, you know, we're going into the fall a little bit, but it seems to be a bit more

269

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dramatic than normal.

270

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People are noticing property sit on the market longer.

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people are maybe tightening their belts, I don't know.

272

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Then you've got markets like Florida where some properties are just, it's really difficult

for them to cash flow because rent amounts have either dropped or they're just, yeah,

273

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they're just, there's so much inventory.

274

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And, but for the investors, the conversations that my property management business owner

clients are having with these investors is even if you're not cash flowing,

275

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for a little while on your property or maybe even for several years, in the long run, it's

still a good investment.

276

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It still is going to make you money.

277

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Real estate's a pretty stable bet.

278

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But some people don't want to be floating a little bit of cash flow each month.

279

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But it's worse if it's vacant.

280

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so sometimes the owner's like, I'm not going to drop rent down.

281

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I want cash flow.

282

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But sometimes you have to be willing to take that hit to win in the long run in some

markets right now.

283

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Yeah, this was a number of years ago, but I was even seeing, you know, people a few years

ago, making all kinds of incentives, you know, TVs and what have you to get people into

284

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into these into apartments.

285

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It just goes, it just goes against the whole housing crisis situation that we keep hearing

about.

286

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When you're saying that there's there's not a lot of movement there.

287

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Yeah, mean, yeah, I think it's just difficult.

288

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think that you've got these big organizations like BlackRock that own massive amounts of

properties that are not even on the market to be rented.

289

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They're just sitting on them in some instances.

290

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the whole market can be a bit crazy.

291

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And when the real estate market shifts,

292

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Property management generally is always stable because people still need help, but it may

be time to sell and get rid of some assets and then reinvest later.

293

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And a good property manager can help you kind of assess that and figure out, does this

make sense to keep this now or should I finally get this thing sold?

294

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And you might be in a position like in some areas where...

295

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the market's not really favorable for selling, you may have to hold on to that asset for a

while and you may have to take less rent than you want to get.

296

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And that's part of the gamble of doing investing.

297

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yeah.

298

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And it's been good for a lot of years.

299

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Like there's a lot of people that were doing really well for a while.

300

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So.

301

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Technology has really been advancing rapidly just in general.

302

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What have you been seeing over the past few years, or what do you see on the horizon

regarding tools and operations?

303

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Well, all right.

304

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So we're in the middle of this AI revolution right now.

305

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And, um, it's pretty dramatic.

306

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And just for perspective, like Google was in an antitrust lawsuit with the government, the

government dropped it because of chat GPT.

307

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Like this is how significantly disruptive this is.

308

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Like we've all come to like trust and rely on Google, but more people are searching and

asking questions on chat GPT now for a lot of things.

309

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And so.

310

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Everything's changing very rapidly.

311

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Everything's speeding up.

312

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The people that are at the forefront of this are making a lot of money.

313

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The savvy property management business owners are, there's a lot of AI tools and leverage

that's coming out.

314

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know, like one of the sponsors of our pod, one of my podcast episodes was Vendaroo.

315

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They do AI maintenance coordination.

316

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And you know, you have to feed in.

317

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a lot of data into it, but it's a property management maintenance coordinator that never

forgets and works 24 hours a day.

318

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And it is consistent and it learns.

319

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And so for those that are savvy, they're leveraging these tools, but the horizon looks a

little scary.

320

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I've done a lot of AI stuff.

321

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I've been really studying it.

322

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I've been going to AI trainings.

323

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I can see very quickly with the agent to gay I and some of the stuff that's coming out

that a lot of people are going to be losing jobs like massively.

324

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I like you can already replace a lot of roles.

325

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People just don't know how to do it yet or they're just not aware that it's possible.

326

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But there's a lot of people that have no idea but their jobs already on it's already on

the chopping block and there's some big companies that are already rolling stuff out like

327

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they're just replacing entire sales teams with AI callers.

328

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They're like

329

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crazy stuff.

330

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so, yeah.

331

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So it's gonna be interesting.

332

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I think there's gonna be a lot of people making a lot of money initially and there's

probably gonna be a big bubble burst.

333

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maybe bigger than the dot com.

334

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Yeah, it has been kind of interesting to watch.

335

00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:42,763

I've unfortunately have seen that AI is kind of the hammer and everything's a nail right

now.

336

00:25:42,763 --> 00:25:46,035

We're just shoving it and everything and hoping something sticks.

337

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Yeah, Yeah, and I think human interaction is going to be a premium thing.

338

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It's going to be valued even more.

339

00:25:55,146 --> 00:25:59,146

Reality is going to be valued even more because there's so much fake now.

340

00:25:59,146 --> 00:26:03,746

Like, I don't know if you've seen all these Sora videos that are just flooding Facebook

right now.

341

00:26:03,746 --> 00:26:05,526

They're absolutely ridiculous.

342

00:26:05,526 --> 00:26:15,166

It's like we just amplified garbage videos like 100x, you know, and but it's it's this is

the worst it'll ever be.

343

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and it's just gonna get better.

344

00:26:16,926 --> 00:26:24,682

this lends more credence to the fake internet theory where they say like half of all

traffic is just bots.

345

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It's probably way higher now that there's AI.

346

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And so we're living in this world where I think in-person interaction is going to be way

more valued and we're actually gonna start shifting towards valuing human connection more.

347

00:26:39,789 --> 00:26:45,709

Leaning into you, you mentioned there's going to be a bubble that bursts here.

348

00:26:45,709 --> 00:26:59,789

One of them I just don't think people like the general public understands is the fact that

the amount of compute and electricity and power, you know, we give CHAT GPT $20 a month.

349

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They're losing on that at this point.

350

00:27:01,509 --> 00:27:09,253

There's no way that they're making enough to pay for the just the compute for some of

that.

351

00:27:09,253 --> 00:27:13,504

Yeah, there's a race right now for nuclear power.

352

00:27:13,864 --> 00:27:24,670

And like I was just at an event and the CTO of a company called Allo that's here in

Austin, they're making like micro nuclear power plants that are pre-built that they can

353

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deploy and ship that can power data centers or power things.

354

00:27:28,592 --> 00:27:34,215

the biggest, and then I met, I was hanging out with a entrepreneur who runs a company that

he's very connected to.

355

00:27:34,215 --> 00:27:41,438

all the data centers, he's, they do all the testing of all the equipment and maintaining

all the equipment in data centers.

356

00:27:41,778 --> 00:27:46,460

And he says, anytime a data center pops up, there's already 200 plus companies in a

waiting list.

357

00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:49,121

Like it's just that want access to it.

358

00:27:49,141 --> 00:27:51,522

There's not enough data centers.

359

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And the biggest constraint for data centers is power.

360

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There's just not enough power.

361

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And so I think we'll see somebody's going to crack this code because there's so much money

to be made and so many people focus on it.

362

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But

363

00:28:04,145 --> 00:28:12,799

it's probably gonna have to be something big like nuclear power to supply a lot of power

with not a lot of space.

364

00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:17,422

And we just don't have the ability here in the US to deploy large nuclear power plants.

365

00:28:17,422 --> 00:28:22,184

We've done it so rarely, there isn't an infrastructure for it.

366

00:28:22,184 --> 00:28:27,006

So that's gonna be pretty wild to see who cracks the power code, because this is the

biggest constraint.

367

00:28:27,947 --> 00:28:28,348

Yeah.

368

00:28:28,348 --> 00:28:39,949

So, you know, and I know this is kind of an odd uh question to ask towards the end here,

but for those people that are managing their own properties, do you have any low hanging

369

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fruits for them to make things a little easier other than hiring a project and property

manager?

370

00:28:45,728 --> 00:28:53,528

I mean, that would be the obvious thing, because no matter how good you get at it how many

tools you think you can afford with your little portfolio, a property manager can beat

371

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you, especially if they have a much larger portfolio.

372

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They have easier access to tools.

373

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They have much more leverage.

374

00:29:00,288 --> 00:29:04,068

They know landlord-tenant law probably way better than you.

375

00:29:04,348 --> 00:29:06,788

I mean, they're going to eviction courts when necessary.

376

00:29:06,788 --> 00:29:08,888

Like, they understand how this all works.

377

00:29:08,888 --> 00:29:11,657

And so by not leveraging that, I think people are making

378

00:29:11,657 --> 00:29:14,710

a very risky mistake, a lot of times legally.

379

00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:23,867

But if you're wanting, there's plenty of tools out there that you could leverage to help

facilitate your investments, but you're basically starting a property management business.

380

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You're doing it yourself.

381

00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:28,261

There's nothing wrong with the DIY route.

382

00:29:28,261 --> 00:29:36,688

You know, if you want to get a property management business started, then you're going to

need to find a really good system, a good system for collecting rent online, a good system

383

00:29:36,688 --> 00:29:39,617

for giving tenants a portal to go to.

384

00:29:39,617 --> 00:29:46,870

you know, good system for, you know, manage maintenance coordination and there's plenty of

systems and tools out there.

385

00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:53,494

It's just difficult to leverage those when you have like less than 50 units, for example.

386

00:29:53,494 --> 00:30:00,827

And if you already have 100 units and you're managing and it makes sense for you to get

some of this leverage, some of these tools, you might as well start doing it third party

387

00:30:00,827 --> 00:30:02,017

and get access to deals.

388

00:30:02,017 --> 00:30:05,907

Like if you really want to expand, this is going to bring in more revenue.

389

00:30:05,907 --> 00:30:11,727

give you the ability to get more tools and more leverage and hire people to do this so you

don't have to.

390

00:30:11,987 --> 00:30:20,587

And so if you get, if you hit that situation as an investor, reach out to DoorGrow, we'll

help you get your business going and help you get to market, you know, to third party if

391

00:30:20,587 --> 00:30:21,807

you want to do that.

392

00:30:21,807 --> 00:30:31,067

But, so that'd be, that'd be my advice to, to investors is there's plenty of tech and

tools, but this is a people business and it's going to be difficult.

393

00:30:31,067 --> 00:30:34,813

Maybe with AI you can create a little bit more leverage than you used to, but

394

00:30:34,813 --> 00:30:38,490

there's still a lot of negotiation and conversation that has to happen in property

management.

395

00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:41,906

And I don't know that that's gonna go away anytime soon.

396

00:30:41,906 --> 00:30:44,579

Well, Jason, this has been a fantastic conversation.

397

00:30:44,579 --> 00:30:49,695

Again, remind everybody check out door grow.com for more information there.

398

00:30:49,695 --> 00:30:51,636

Check out the podcast.

399

00:30:51,757 --> 00:30:56,772

And uh before we jump into the rapid fire, is there anything else we should have tried to

hit on here today?

400

00:30:57,242 --> 00:31:04,925

No, I mean you mentioned you're closely connected with processes and so I'll share a quick

tip that we share with our clients about processes.

401

00:31:05,125 --> 00:31:07,116

You know, I saw this pattern in my own business.

402

00:31:07,116 --> 00:31:13,789

We identified there's three levels of process systems in a business and the first level,

level one is just documentation.

403

00:31:13,849 --> 00:31:15,730

Problem with documentation though, nobody looks at it.

404

00:31:15,730 --> 00:31:19,451

It's like the owner's manual in the glove box of your car, right?

405

00:31:19,451 --> 00:31:24,863

And so over time processes actually devolve away from the actual what's in the manual.

406

00:31:25,081 --> 00:31:29,564

And the level two we started then is I call checklist.

407

00:31:29,564 --> 00:31:39,131

This is where you something like process street or a sauna or Monday or some sort of

system where people have to do the process and mark that they've done it.

408

00:31:39,131 --> 00:31:41,333

And so I call that checklist.

409

00:31:41,333 --> 00:31:44,395

Level three is visual workflow.

410

00:31:44,395 --> 00:31:46,887

And so this is where you have flow charts.

411

00:31:46,887 --> 00:31:49,518

You're actually working through a process.

412

00:31:49,518 --> 00:31:53,535

The challenge with checklists is that checklists are linear and

413

00:31:53,535 --> 00:31:58,087

most processes in property management are not actually step one, step two.

414

00:31:58,087 --> 00:31:59,298

It's like a decision.

415

00:31:59,298 --> 00:32:00,388

Do they have pets?

416

00:32:00,388 --> 00:32:01,148

Do they have this?

417

00:32:01,148 --> 00:32:02,810

Like in property management especially.

418

00:32:02,810 --> 00:32:06,051

And there's concurrent things that are happening at the same time.

419

00:32:06,051 --> 00:32:11,444

And so this is where being able to build out your process in a flow chart and leverage

that.

420

00:32:11,444 --> 00:32:16,988

And so there's tools like Flusos, F-L-U-S-S-O-S I believe, and stuff like that.

421

00:32:16,988 --> 00:32:28,338

that we use at DoorGro to manage our processes that makes it easy for our team to

understand the process visually, even if it's really complex, and it makes it easy for

422

00:32:28,338 --> 00:32:29,038

them to edit it.

423

00:32:29,038 --> 00:32:38,215

So I don't have to be the resident nerd building logic in something like Process Street

where it's hiding and showing steps and then people skip steps on checklists.

424

00:32:38,215 --> 00:32:43,319

And so that's a little tip I'll give on process and systemization.

425

00:32:44,129 --> 00:32:45,301

I appreciate that way.

426

00:32:45,301 --> 00:32:46,954

Great way to end out that episode.

427

00:32:46,954 --> 00:32:47,594

Again.

428

00:32:47,594 --> 00:32:52,360

uh Well, if you're ready, Jason, we'll jump into the rapid fire and close out this

episode.

429

00:32:52,403 --> 00:32:53,604

Let's go, Jack.

430

00:32:54,103 --> 00:32:57,376

What lie do real estate investors often tell themselves?

431

00:32:57,630 --> 00:33:01,479

Ooh, I will save money by doing it myself.

432

00:33:01,479 --> 00:33:05,177

I think the slowest path to growth in business and life is to do it alone.

433

00:33:05,177 --> 00:33:08,783

If you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it

be?

434

00:33:08,783 --> 00:33:11,956

There is so much I would love to tell my younger self, so much.

435

00:33:11,956 --> 00:33:18,932

One big piece of advice, yeah, I think it would be to focus on investing in myself.

436

00:33:18,932 --> 00:33:20,820

and stop trying to please everybody else so much.

437

00:33:20,820 --> 00:33:23,886

Do you have a book recommendation, or what are you reading right now?

438

00:33:23,886 --> 00:33:32,012

I am always reading many books, but I think a really great book that would be beneficial

for anybody is Learning to Be Better at Sales.

439

00:33:32,012 --> 00:33:40,888

And I think one of the best books I've read about sales maybe ever, I don't think it's

even a well-written book, but the things it teaches is really good.

440

00:33:40,888 --> 00:33:44,821

And it's The New Model of Selling by Jeremy Minor.

441

00:33:44,821 --> 00:33:47,582

And I believe since the pandemic.

442

00:33:47,824 --> 00:33:56,830

and everything that's gone on politically, we're in what a lot of people are calling the

post trust era and people trust is at an all time low and sales and deals happen at the

443

00:33:56,830 --> 00:33:57,561

speed of trust.

444

00:33:57,561 --> 00:34:00,903

I often say and people don't trust salespeople.

445

00:34:00,903 --> 00:34:03,285

People don't trust pushy manipulation.

446

00:34:03,285 --> 00:34:13,472

All the old sales tactics I think are now out the window and there's this new model of

selling that's question based that's empathetic that allows the person to figure out what

447

00:34:13,472 --> 00:34:16,914

they need and what they want by you asking really good questions.

448

00:34:17,158 --> 00:34:27,787

And Jeremy Minor, think, is at the forefront of this with his NEPQ model and his book

gives away a lot of really great info and it shows the difference between old model ways

449

00:34:27,787 --> 00:34:29,939

of doing things and the new model way of doing things.

450

00:34:29,939 --> 00:34:32,120

So it makes it really obvious and clear.

451

00:34:32,801 --> 00:34:36,040

Yeah, when you mentioned that, was like, I've seen that somewhere.

452

00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,307

I think I keep getting Facebook ads for that book.

453

00:34:39,307 --> 00:34:40,858

He's not that book.

454

00:34:40,858 --> 00:34:41,849

That book's on Amazon.

455

00:34:41,849 --> 00:34:42,760

You can go get it.

456

00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,432

He's always pushing his NEPQ book or whatever.

457

00:34:45,432 --> 00:34:49,786

Yeah, but yeah, it's yeah, that book's really good.

458

00:34:49,786 --> 00:34:54,209

I like flipping it open, reading the scripts from time to time and coaching my sales team

on it.

459

00:34:54,209 --> 00:34:54,919

So.

460

00:34:55,566 --> 00:35:01,229

And then finally, what single process or tool have you implemented that has had the

biggest time-saving impact?

461

00:35:01,235 --> 00:35:04,929

Ooh, biggest time saving impact.

462

00:35:04,929 --> 00:35:07,733

I use a lot of tools, so that's difficult.

463

00:35:07,733 --> 00:35:11,958

I think the easy answer everybody should be saying right now is like AI.

464

00:35:11,958 --> 00:35:16,421

So my favorite tool right now in AI is actually called Poppy.

465

00:35:16,603 --> 00:35:21,233

I think the website's getpoppy.ai or something like this, but Poppy.

466

00:35:21,233 --> 00:35:28,910

The challenge with AI, if you're feeding lots of input, it becomes difficult to manage and

know what's being fed into it and trying to get the right output.

467

00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:36,717

So Poppy is like a whiteboard that you can drag and drop visually objects into, like text

documents and YouTube videos.

468

00:35:36,717 --> 00:35:44,123

And then you can drag and connect little lines of chats, almost like a flow chart to a

chat box.

469

00:35:44,123 --> 00:35:46,846

And you can then pick which AI model, like Claude.

470

00:35:46,846 --> 00:35:49,087

I love working with Claude, for example.

471

00:35:49,171 --> 00:35:51,624

or chat GPT or whatever.

472

00:35:51,624 --> 00:35:55,638

You can pick the model and then you can interact with that.

473

00:35:55,638 --> 00:36:05,869

And so I've used that to write books, I've used that to write playbooks for clients, and

I'm just dragging and dropping in videos of trainings I've done, stuff that I've created,

474

00:36:05,869 --> 00:36:10,093

and I'm able to then leverage it very quickly.

475

00:36:10,093 --> 00:36:12,095

And so it allows...

476

00:36:12,232 --> 00:36:20,441

That's the challenge I think is that when everything is just text, it becomes very

difficult mentally to manage, especially if there's a lot of pieces going into something.

477

00:36:20,441 --> 00:36:24,456

so Poppy, the Poppy AI tool is pretty, pretty nice.

478

00:36:24,456 --> 00:36:25,647

I really like it.

479

00:36:26,316 --> 00:36:28,569

Well, Jason, this has been fantastic.

480

00:36:28,569 --> 00:36:32,815

One more time, you can learn more at door grow.com.

481

00:36:32,815 --> 00:36:38,642

That's going to be a clickable link in the show notes, but hope you'll be back sooner than

five years this time.

482

00:36:38,833 --> 00:36:40,021

Yeah, absolutely.