Eddie: Welcome to day three of season one finale week.
It's episode 42 of the web joy podcast.
I'm your host Eddie.
And in this podcast, we interview guests about their origin story.
And what makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community.
I hope you enjoy today's episode.
I didn't know what I was outside of my job with ally Thomas.
Welcome to another episode of Web Joy.
I'm excited to have Ale with us today.
Ale
Ale: say hi to the listeners and everything.
Hi everyone.
My name is Ale Thomas.
I am originally from Mexico.
I am now based in New York, and I am a software engineer and.
I do a lot of other things, but we'll get to that later.
Thanks for having me, Eddie.
Yes,
Eddie: it's my pleasure.
Thanks for coming on.
Well, that's great.
So yeah, kind of what's a short version of your story?
What was it that initially kind of got you inspired to start looking into tech?
And what has that journey looked like
Ale: so far?
Well, like I said, I'm originally from Mexico where I went to school, and
I've always been a very curious person.
I've always considered myself good with tech.
You know how when you're a kid and you have access to a computer or like video
games, In my case, I had, I had access to computers and I just went crazy
when I had my first encounter with a computer and it just went from there.
I knew that I really liked them.
I really liked to tinker with them.
I really liked to play and create things.
Even when I had no internet, like when I had no access to the internet,
I would make animations on pain and you know, make like frames to
then animate them, A movie maker.
So my main hobby.
Staying on the computer all day, even when I had no internet.
And that was the same when I started school.
Uh, when I wa when I went to middle school and then high school and in
Mexico, I was very lucky that in high school we had courses, computer courses,
and they weren't the, the usual word and Excel and, and things like that.
We actually saw flash.
We actually learned how to use flash.
We had a course on Java.
Which is when I officially had my first, you know, dig at at
computers and programming on its own.
But back then I didn't really think that it was a career that I could pursue.
It was more like a hobby.
It was more something that I thought was really fun and like challenging
and that I thought it was just like something to do on the side.
I didn't even know that you could.
Pursue a career in tech.
You know, I didn't even know softer development existed.
And so when I went to college, it's funny because when I was in
high school, I'm telling you, I've always been a very curious person.
So I started learning English since I was a little kid.
And by the time I was in middle school, I was ready to take
on a new language, right?
And I wanted to learn new languages.
So I started learning French and then Portuguese and, and when I was in high
school I was like, wow, this is my calling, you know, languages and I wanna
study international business . And so I went to school for international business
because I thought that knowing languages is going to be a huge advantage, right?
The first semester I'm in college, I noticed that I really don't like
it, and it's all theory and it's all reading a lot and writing essays.
And I'm like, where's the math and , where's the math
and where's the computers?
And we had.
We had a class on Excel for business, so they taught you
macros and stuff like that.
A little bit more advanced for like a business major.
And even then I took it upon me, you know, to go further and I would,
you know, investigate how to, how to actually program using Excel.
That's when I realized that, hey, maybe I want something
that's more practical, right?
I want, I want to actually do something and.
I decided to switch my majors, but in my small city, they only
offered like two engineering majors.
My school, for me, it meant investing more money into changing schools or
like traveling to a different state.
So I stayed in my original city and I.
Chose one of those two engineering majors that we had, which was
industrial A systems engineering, and we had a couple programming courses.
So that was enough for me.
I set like, okay, that's enough and I can probably learn more of it on my own.
And I went to school for that.
I finished and I graduated as an industrial and systems.
and definitely my favorite classes were my programming classes and my
teachers were always very enthusiastic about my, my interests in it.
You know, we still, we actually still talk and that's very nice.
But yeah, putting that aside, and I graduated at school and everything I
already knew, and with my research and my building on the side, I knew that
I wanted to be a software engineer.
You know, as soon as I came.
School.
And that's what happened.
Um, a few months before I started graduated, I started looking for jobs
that were only software engineering jobs.
And that was very, you know, looking back it's like that was very confident of me.
I was very confident like, oh yeah, I'm gonna get that job.
And we, I got my first I software engineering.
Programming with Java, and that's pretty much how I did it.
It's not, I would just been always interested in it, and I think
that if I had known that I could have pursued that career, that
I definitely would've done it.
But Saline High school, I didn't have much access to that, to that
idea that I could be a software engineer or that that was a job.
You know, I thought that it was just like something cool to do on the computer.
Eddie: Yeah.
No, that makes sense.
I think it's funny, that's a recurring sentiment from a lot of people that,
or a number of people that I've talked to on the podcast where they had an
interesting computers when they were younger, but they just didn't know if
it was really a pathway that they could go, so they kind of assumed it wasn't,
and they started down a different path.
Mm-hmm.
and eventually, yeah.
Their interest and passion at some point along the journey is like, oh no, this is.
Cool.
I can do it.
I'm gonna do it
. Ale: Yeah, that's exactly what happened with
Eddie: me, . Well, that's exciting.
I was wondering, as you were mentioning that you ended up getting
a degree in industrial engineering.
I was in my mind wondering like, oh, I wonder like how long it took you
to get into programing, but that's awesome that you actually just, mm-hmm.
looked straight for those programming jobs.
Do you feel like it took you a little while to find that
first programming job or.
Was it kind of just standard?
You kind of found it as you were graduating slash a
little bit after it happened
Ale: super fast.
I think I got very lucky and I wish it were like that , like now that I'm lucky
again, why isn't it like that ? But because I, I graduated December of
2020, but I did, the thing is that I did have professional experience, right?
I had worked full-time jobs since I was out of high school, so, 17, 18 years
old and I was already having full-time jobs and that definitely helped a lot.
Before I graduated, I had an internship that was completely
industrial engineer, right?
It was manufacturing.
I was at a, at a factory and everything and, and it was very heavily industrial
engineering, but I was actually with a team of o it was four people
and my three other teammates and.
We, we designed this project to help the project that we were doing
in for a school, but we decided to put some programming in and they
really liked that project and then extended our contract for like a year.
So that was official, like I.
. I used that as like, that's my first job.
So . Yeah.
So already in my resume I had a little bit experience, like professional
experience doing software engineering and when I, when I was about to graduate,
so I graduated December, 2020 and I started looking for jobs, LinkedIn,
I only le used LinkedIn by the way.
I just applied to a lot of positions and in January, , a company called
me back and it was actually the first company that called me back.
None of them even like rejected me.
You know, the, unfortunately, you know, the automatic reply, I didn't
even get those from other companies, but this company did get back to me.
They, um, we had the interviews and it was a done deal, like
February, I was already starting, so it happened very, very quickly.
. Eddie: That's awesome.
Well congratulations on that.
Thank you, . So, you know, you kind of have been in the tech industry
since you started programming.
Yeah.
And this year there was kind of an unexpected transition for you, and that
can be challenging for a lot of people.
But it really seems like you kind of leaned into it, right?
You moved on from your last company.
Mm-hmm.
, and you're currently taking a break while you kind of figure out what your next.
Is I think a lot of people run into these seasons of life, and when they
do, they kind of feel like they're alone and they're not always sure what to do.
So I guess, what have you found particularly challenging and what have
you found surprisingly beneficial during this time as you're kind of transitioning
and figuring out where your next role?
Ale: It's funny because like I told you, everything happened really fast for me.
I've always had that going, like, I don't know why , or, you know,
I, I've always been very sure of what's coming next for me.
Ever since I started.
Working when I was, I'm telling you, 17, 18 years old, I went job to job.
Okay.
And I liked playing around with things and, and finding out what
I liked, what I didn't like.
And even as soon as I graduated, you know, a lot of people go through those stages
or like crisis where you're graduated and you're, and you say, what now?
Or like, what am I gonna do now?
Or, you know, what's my.
and as soon as I graduated, I had a job, so I didn't go through that stage in which
I don't know who I am or like what I like, or I was certain that I wanted to be a
software engineer, and I was certain that that was a path that I wanted to take.
And as soon as I started my job, I, I just had objectives like.
Around it.
You know, I, I never, I never found myself lost, and then that suddenly
happened with the last job that I had.
I had this job that didn't turn out to be what I wanted it to
be, and it was shocking for me.
I had never come across that.
I had never, it never happened to me that I'm there and I don't want it.
You know, I was, I was unhappy and I noticed that I was
unhappy and it made me feel bad.
It made me feel.
like guilty, and it made me feel like maybe this is a sign that
I am failing or maybe this is a sign that I'm not good at it.
It was very hard for me to get into that mindset of being like, you know what?
This just isn't for me, but it doesn't mean that I'm bad at it.
And it was really hard.
I had never quit a job.
I mean like that, like.
Just out of the blue, you know, it was always like, because I had a ne
the next thing coming or because I already knew what my next objective
was and, and for the last position that I left, it got very bad for me.
It was very challenging and I needed a lot of help in like, because I
wanted to kind of prove myself.
I wanted to say, you know what, no, I can do it.
And I, and I have to at least last a year, you know, , for me it was
like, it was a very huge sign of.
Failure to have to leave a job so suddenly, and, and it
was very challenging for me.
And I just, you know, I always had the next thing in mind and it made me feel,
I, I think a lot of, of introspection, you know, uh, that I had never done.
I had always been like, okay, I want this.
I'm gonna do this.
And then I'm gonna get it.
And I've always been very structured and a lot of plans and a lot of
premeditation before I do something.
But for this, it was starting to affect me.
It was starting to affect me even physically as in like with all these
thoughts, like, wow, everybody's going to be so disappointed.
Or everybody's going to be like, why are you doing this?
It got physical, like, I couldn't sleep.
I would cry.
Um, my stomach.
You know how when you're nervous or like when you're feeling bad,
when your stomach resents it?
I was, I was going through all, all sort of, all sort of emotions and I
just realized, you know what, this is not good for me and, and I need to
take a step back and, and that's okay.
It's been very challenging because I had never been through this, but I also never
stopped working like I've been working.
I, I'm telling you for seven.
and never stopping.
So I was doing a job and then at the same time I was like,
okay, now I'm interested in this.
And then I would apply and then I would get that other job and,
okay, buy old job, high new job.
There was no break in between.
And for the first time in forever, I, I started waking up
and I was like, okay, now what?
you know, like I, I didn't have a, a concrete purpose in my mind,
which at the end of the day I think has been, Really beneficial for me.
I had never stopped to, everything I've ever known has been stressed, and I
actually thought that was a good thing to have to be stressed and to be like,
oh yeah, thinking about the next step and, and just planning and my goals and
achieving this and achieving that, and.
I never stopped to, to just enjoy the present.
And I think I'm finally being able to do that, but it's not been easy like
a day I'm like, wow, I love this.
And I'm at the beach and I'm enjoying my time, and I'm enjoying my family
and my friends, and I feel great.
And then the next day I'm like, I feel guilty.
You know, the next day I'm like, why did I do that?
Why didn't I, I applied to jobs or . Why didn't I, I don't
know, go through a course.
X technology and, and it's been like that, it's like, it's like a rollercoaster, but.
I'm enjoying it so much and it's made me put everything into perspective
and it's made me realize that I was prioritizing my job way too much.
Like for me, having a job was my personality really?
Like, uh, so without a job, what am I right?
And, and I'm finally discovering that, which is very, very nice.
And I think it's a, it's been a beautiful journey because I didn't
know what I was outside of my job.
I didn't know.
When I was outside of school, when out outside.
Just a job and I'm finally getting to define that after so many
Eddie: years, , it's really good to have that break and to be able
to kind of let your mind reset.
Mm-hmm.
, I very similarly to you, really Most of my working life, like, it's just been
okay, one job to the next and you know, you'd line up the next job and Yeah.
A year ago or so, I, you know, was at a company and.
Things weren't good, right?
Like mm-hmm.
very similarly.
So I had actually started kind of interviewing at some places.
Felt pretty confident in like one or two of the interviews going on.
And so I went ahead and I was like, I left the company.
Uh, those interviews didn't work out, so I was unemployed last summer,
um, while doing the job search.
And it, it can be so stressful, right?
Yeah.
To be in that area and then.
To know that like things weren't going the way you wanted at the previous company.
Right.
And things weren't connecting with people.
It just, yeah.
Things weren't fitting.
And like you said, there's that stress afterwards.
It's like, was it me there?
Was it the company?
Mm-hmm.
there.
Like there's all these questions and doubts that float around your.
Where even after you make that choice, like you have these conflicting
emotions of positive because you've made, you know, this brave step
and you're looking to the future.
Yeah.
And like regret, like, did I make the worst decision of my life and maybe it
was all me and like I suck, you know,
Yeah.
So it's definitely, it's unfortunate when those things happen, but I
think it happens to a lot of people.
, and I hope anyone listening, whether you're going through it right now, whether
you've gone through it and it's like your deep, dark secret that you hold inside
and you don't tell anyone or whether you know, it happens over the next couple of
years, like, remember this conversation.
Remember that it has happened to us, that, you know, this is just part
of going through life and trying to find the right companies to work at.
And sometimes there aren't matches and mm-hmm , these things
don't work and that's okay.
And that doesn't reflect on you, you know, as a person.
Yeah, exactly.
I
Ale: think, I think it's super important and, and we're quick sometimes to
be like, wow, they pay me very well and like it's even like maybe a
prestigious company, so I gotta take it.
But then , yo, I think we have to be a little, I mean, way more careful with
where we inve, like we're investing so many hours of our days into work, right.
I don't know.
I just realized that I, yeah, the money is great.
It's great to have like those benefits and everything, but if
it's draining you or if it's making you feel bad, then it's a no-go
Eddie: Yeah, absolutely.
So, you know, one of the main things we talk about in each
episode is what brings us joy.
And so, you know, you mentioned earlier you do a lot of different things, right?
Yes.
You're a software engineer.
Yes.
You do all these things, but I know that there's some stuff
that is kind of a hobby for you.
So yeah.
What's something that brings you joy that you'd like to talk about
Ale: today?
Um, well one of the things that I started doing last year, actually, it's been a,
it's been a whole year now, is c s s.
So it's, it's like animations using only c s s and it's just so fun.
The moment I discovered that I could do it, it was just,
I was just addicted to it.
Even, even when I'm sad, you know, it's funny because I can be sad
or like glue me and not like just feeling glue and my boyfriend's
like, why don't you do some CS hard?
So like he knows that.
He knows that I really enjoy.
For me it's.
It's like putting a puzzle together because it's not the same.
So I've al I've always liked drawing too.
I'm not, I'm not very good at drawing, but I even had like my Instagram account where
I posted like little drawings that I made.
But just being able to actually do it with code is another
type of challenge and it's.
So cool to, to see it come together and trying to think of how to do it.
And that's what I love the most.
Like you can just, you know, think of a, a panda in your mind and
you're gonna be like, how do I do it?
And then, and then you just bring it to live using only
code, which is fascinating.
And, and.
It does make me feel amazing and I think, I think it puts, it lets
me be creative and it lets me be, you know, logical as well.
So that's why I really love it.
Cuz it, it feels
Eddie: challenging.
That's so interesting.
I personally have never, I've seen a ton of people mm-hmm.
do c s s art and I've never done it.
For some reason there's a disconnect in my brain.
I'm like, , I don't get how you'll go from this image of like, Hey, I wanna do
a panda to like, yeah, actually creating all these circles and shapes and stuff.
That make up a panda, you know,
. Ale: Yeah.
And it can even take you hours, but it's just, it's just worth it.
I don't know.
It it, it's like absorbing.
You start with, you start maybe 11:00 AM and then with nothing, right?
And then it's 9:00 PM and you've only made like a smiley face,
but you're like so proud of it.
Like . It's so worth it.
. And
Eddie: it feels, it feels very reward.
That's awesome.
Well, so how did you kind of discover that c s s art was a thing?
Like did you just see it online or how did that kind of come across your
Ale: radar?
So my last job where I was, where I worked with Java, like I said, I come
from an industrial engineering background.
So I didn't have a lot of like computer science fundamentals.
Um, when I jumped into my job and I remember that my teammates, they were.
Come grads, so they always like knew all the terminology and I
was just like, okay, I don't know.
A lot of things . And so I started kind of educating myself on, on the things
that I didn't know to kind of catch up and well, yeah, just be better at my job.
And I started playing around also with front end technologies.
I was also like, I was trying to get into React at my position cuz my,
my manager gave me that opportunity, you know, to play around with things.
But I wanted to kind of really get the, like the foundations of
everything that I didn't know.
And so I started actually on free code camp.
Like the first chords that they give out that it's like responsive web design.
And the first lesson, I think one of the first lessons on c s s, they make
you do a hard, or like I, I think it's a hard and then a panda with c s s.
And so I was like, This is a thing, , and it was like my first day actually
of looking at css, like properly on, on that course, on free code Camp
and I started just playing around and I made a peek or two actually.
Um, I post it's.
Back on my Twitter, like I posted it a long time ago, but that's how
I started and I found Code Pen and I saw everything that people were making
and I was like, this is incredible.
So I just, I think it, it, it just made me very curious to see how far I
could go and in creating things with his c s s and that's how it all started
Eddie: That's awesome.
You've done so many fun little.
CodePen animations.
I really particularly like the Pikachu animation with the little
Valentine's card, like the envelope opens up and like the card pops out.
? Yeah.
. Thank you.
Do you have one or two of yours that are kind of your favorites?
I
Ale: have a side duck that I really love, the ones that are animated
and I like to play with colors.
Like I really like pastel colors and like soft, soft stuff like that.
And I don't know, it's just pleasing to my eyes.
Right.
But I really like a side duck that just moves its hands, like its hands like this.
And that was very hard to animate because I did like a mirroring thing so
that I wouldn't have to repeat the arm.
Wow.
It, that was very challenging.
So it took me a lot of time.
To figure out like cuz believe it or not, , you need math.
Okay, , you need math for CSS Arts, which is, it's a good hobby to have.
And so it took me some time to like kind of get the math right, and, and,
and get it, get it moving properly.
So that one I really like.
I really like how it came out.
And what's another one that's my favorite?
Oh, I really like doing pixel art.
So I really like all of the ones that I made with pixels.
I like one.
Kiki from Kiki's Delivery Service.
Awesome.
I did that one.
That one is really bad because it wasn't one of the first ones I made,
but that's why I really like it.
But it's like not responsive at all.
, it's like, it's like on the corner and then it's, it's really
bad, like, Very unresponsive.
But, um, I like it because it was like the third thing I did
and it took me so many hours.
I also did it like the hard way.
You know, when you , when you go and you just repeat everything
over and over and over.
I then learned how to, how to make things better.
But I think that's, that's why it was one of my favorites because.
, uh, when I was just getting started
. Eddie: Awesome.
That's great.
In the show notes, we'll go ahead and link to, you know, the c s s
Arts we've mentioned, as well as just your code pen in general for
anyone who wants to check out and see visually what we've been talking
about, go over and check those out.
Get inspired, maybe try some c s css, art of Your Own
. Ale: Please do and show it to me.
Eddie: that's.
Ally, thank you so much for joining us today.
It's just been a pleasure chatting, getting to hear about your journey,
you know, the ups and the downs, and just kind of chatting about something
that brings you joy with c s s art.
And I know seeing these little cartoons and stuff brings me a lot
of joy and I'm sure others as well.
So thank you for sharing them with us.
Ale: Thank you.
Thank you so much, Eddie, and thank you for having me, and I really appreciate
what you're doing because it's all about the being transparent, right?
I think that's very important.
It's not all beautiful for us.
Everybody goes through their ups and downs and, and I think
that's very important that people realize that they're not alone.
So there's always light at the end of the tunnel , even when it gets very dark.
But yeah, I think that's very important and thank you so much
for having this space to show that.
Eddie: Absolutely.
It's my pleasure.
Thank you for joining us for episode 42.
I didn't know what I was outside of my job with ally Thomas.
You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode.
As well as a link to Allie's website and social media counts in the show notes.
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Give us a shadow on your favorite social media platform and tag a friend or
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Don't forget to follow us wherever you hanging out online, or you can subscribe
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Thank you for joining us for season one.
If you have three minutes, please take our short listener survey.
You can find a link in the show notes and it'll be invaluable.
While we plan out season two, we have a lots of surprises in store.
Thank you for listening and have a great day.
Ale: Bye