1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,539
In today's episode, we are talking about
website tech, the tech stacks that we

2
00:00:05,539 --> 00:00:12,529
use, and how we approach that within our
work and how it benefits our clients.

3
00:00:12,970 --> 00:00:19,900
And I wanted to touch on tech shaming
as well, because if you've been around

4
00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:25,289
for a while, the chances are you
are going to have felt tech shamed

5
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,560
at some point by another developer
saying that they do it differently

6
00:00:29,619 --> 00:00:32,149
or doing it wrong or whatever else.

7
00:00:32,210 --> 00:00:34,869
Well, this episode has been
created especially for you.

8
00:00:36,641 --> 00:00:39,661
Hello and welcome to another
episode of Websites Made

9
00:00:39,661 --> 00:00:41,211
Simple with me, Holly Christie.

10
00:00:41,291 --> 00:00:47,211
I am a website designer, I am a website
designer's mentor, and I am here to help

11
00:00:47,211 --> 00:00:49,741
you have a really happy website career.

12
00:00:50,121 --> 00:00:56,293
So let's get started I have so many
stories about tech shaming, particularly

13
00:00:56,293 --> 00:01:03,151
because I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn
And there are people of all calibers

14
00:01:03,421 --> 00:01:07,561
there who are people who have been
designing and developing, like, like

15
00:01:07,621 --> 00:01:10,521
since they were really tiny, and people
who are doing it for a second or third

16
00:01:10,521 --> 00:01:14,361
career, people who use page builders,
people who are coding from scratch,

17
00:01:14,751 --> 00:01:17,451
and absolutely everybody in between.

18
00:01:17,531 --> 00:01:20,041
And everyone has a different opinion.

19
00:01:20,611 --> 00:01:25,691
I have been told in LinkedIn posts that
my opinions are irrelevant by people who

20
00:01:25,691 --> 00:01:30,441
have much smaller communities than me,
do much smaller projects than me, and,

21
00:01:30,571 --> 00:01:37,301
um, I often have thought that it's not
necessarily that, uh, my opinions or my

22
00:01:37,301 --> 00:01:39,391
processes or my thoughts are irrelevant.

23
00:01:39,391 --> 00:01:44,581
And as this podcast is recorded, um,
we've had nearly three hundred and eighty

24
00:01:44,631 --> 00:01:48,661
thousand downloads of it, so it kinda
tells me that, yeah, maybe I've got some

25
00:01:48,661 --> 00:01:49,801
stuff that we're gonna talk through.

26
00:01:50,571 --> 00:01:55,171
And I have my Sparks mentoring group,
and if you're new to the podcast and

27
00:01:55,171 --> 00:02:01,031
you haven't heard of Sparks, it is a
mentoring weekly session for website

28
00:02:01,061 --> 00:02:03,521
designers, developers, SEO specialists.

29
00:02:03,651 --> 00:02:05,871
We even let some copywriters in sometimes.

30
00:02:06,341 --> 00:02:11,371
And it's a weekly space where we
can jump on Zoom, you get some

31
00:02:11,371 --> 00:02:15,201
mentoring from me, we have master
classes, and we talk through anything

32
00:02:15,201 --> 00:02:16,791
that's come up that week as well.

33
00:02:17,261 --> 00:02:23,601
And the real focus of Sparks is... and
really the real focus of my work, is that

34
00:02:23,631 --> 00:02:26,271
it's about collaboration, not competition.

35
00:02:26,581 --> 00:02:31,461
There are enough seats at the table,
but the way to get your seat is to

36
00:02:31,461 --> 00:02:35,741
work to best practices, and that's
what I am here to help you to do.

37
00:02:36,371 --> 00:02:40,501
And the very first thing that I
wanted to talk through is when we

38
00:02:40,531 --> 00:02:44,911
are delivering websites, it's not
about the tech that we've used.

39
00:02:44,951 --> 00:02:47,291
It's not about whether it's Wix
or whether it's WordPress or

40
00:02:47,441 --> 00:02:48,911
Squarespace or React or it...

41
00:02:48,981 --> 00:02:49,881
whatever else.

42
00:02:50,021 --> 00:02:50,821
It's not about that.

43
00:02:51,211 --> 00:02:53,931
It's about what we are
delivering to the clients.

44
00:02:54,451 --> 00:02:55,991
Are we delivering what we promised?

45
00:02:56,381 --> 00:03:01,771
Are we delivering a website that
converts, that brings in leads, that

46
00:03:01,831 --> 00:03:04,571
makes sales, that gets found by Google?

47
00:03:05,401 --> 00:03:08,591
And usually as web designers,
we offer all of these things as

48
00:03:08,591 --> 00:03:13,021
standard, but at the same time, we
can only work with what we've got.

49
00:03:13,081 --> 00:03:15,341
So if we get something and
the copy's absolute crap,

50
00:03:15,471 --> 00:03:16,901
then it's not gonna convert.

51
00:03:17,051 --> 00:03:23,081
But it's, it... We have to find
the way that we can deliver on what

52
00:03:23,081 --> 00:03:26,841
we've promised, and that is having
all the setup right, having the SEO

53
00:03:26,841 --> 00:03:28,181
right, and all that sort of thing.

54
00:03:28,711 --> 00:03:32,731
And whether we are doing that on
Squarespace, whether we're doing it on

55
00:03:32,731 --> 00:03:36,151
WordPress, whether we're doing it on any
of the other platforms, doesn't matter

56
00:03:36,301 --> 00:03:41,041
because we are just using different
tools to achieve the same end result.

57
00:03:41,651 --> 00:03:46,751
And one of the really big end results
and one of the really big factors that

58
00:03:46,801 --> 00:03:51,841
I like to have in with my websites
is, is it easy for the client to use?

59
00:03:51,931 --> 00:03:56,521
Because Most clients are a little
bit afraid of website tech.

60
00:03:56,561 --> 00:03:58,801
Their website isn't something
they're on every day.

61
00:03:59,161 --> 00:04:01,621
It's not tech that they're
used to using every day.

62
00:04:02,021 --> 00:04:05,941
And what they need is something
that's very easy for them.

63
00:04:06,411 --> 00:04:11,271
And it might be that they want to add
a blog post, or it could be that they

64
00:04:11,271 --> 00:04:15,531
want to, uh, change some text, or add
an image, or, you know, they wanna

65
00:04:15,631 --> 00:04:17,131
put up a new page, or whatever it is.

66
00:04:17,361 --> 00:04:18,701
Are they able to do this?

67
00:04:19,161 --> 00:04:23,591
Now, some people will use page
builders, and they'll teach

68
00:04:23,591 --> 00:04:24,781
them how to use page builders.

69
00:04:24,841 --> 00:04:29,161
That's my method of doing things because
I work, um, I particularly work with

70
00:04:29,161 --> 00:04:34,191
lots of coaches actually, and coaches
are so often creating new offers and

71
00:04:34,191 --> 00:04:37,541
one-off workshops and things like that,
that they need quite a lot of access

72
00:04:37,541 --> 00:04:41,441
to their website, and a page builder
is often a really good way to do that.

73
00:04:42,041 --> 00:04:45,391
And I know other people who say, "No,
I want to lock down the design. I

74
00:04:45,391 --> 00:04:49,461
want to lock down the frame. I'm just
going to use advanced custom fields

75
00:04:49,511 --> 00:04:53,351
and, uh, pet it out so that the client
can do what they need to do without

76
00:04:53,351 --> 00:04:58,521
breaking anything else on the site."
And then you've got those assholes.

77
00:04:59,691 --> 00:05:00,861
You're gonna cut that, aren't you, Neil?

78
00:05:01,581 --> 00:05:02,861
I will say something else.

79
00:05:02,901 --> 00:05:03,461
Well done.

80
00:05:04,241 --> 00:05:08,311
And then you get ... Sorry
to throw myself up.

81
00:05:08,361 --> 00:05:09,051
They are assholes.

82
00:05:09,081 --> 00:05:11,591
People who do this are absolute
assholes, and I know right now you

83
00:05:11,591 --> 00:05:12,461
don't know what I'm talking about.

84
00:05:15,153 --> 00:05:20,743
And then you get people, developers
who hard code a website all into

85
00:05:20,803 --> 00:05:25,813
the database and no one's really
able to do anything with it.

86
00:05:26,473 --> 00:05:34,053
And I sometimes feel that the developers
do that so that the client needs to

87
00:05:34,053 --> 00:05:40,083
come back to them if they are having,
um, something they want to update

88
00:05:40,083 --> 00:05:42,073
on the website or whatever else.

89
00:05:42,173 --> 00:05:47,323
And whilst I'm, yeah, I'm not into tech
shaming, I'm not into saying that you

90
00:05:47,323 --> 00:05:51,683
shouldn't do this or you shouldn't do
that, that, that there is a thing that

91
00:05:51,753 --> 00:05:55,093
if a client has paid for a website,
that website belongs to them and they

92
00:05:55,093 --> 00:05:58,853
should be able to access it and they
should be able to access it easily.

93
00:05:59,573 --> 00:06:04,923
And I would generally say try and find
a method of working, so not necessarily

94
00:06:04,923 --> 00:06:07,883
with tech, because you know, lots of
people who hard code websites are using

95
00:06:07,883 --> 00:06:11,833
WordPress to do that, but try and find
a method that is a good middle ground so

96
00:06:11,833 --> 00:06:17,633
that your clients can, you know, A, walk
away really happy because happy clients

97
00:06:17,633 --> 00:06:19,243
come back to you for more work as well.

98
00:06:19,243 --> 00:06:23,453
So it is really important that we
give them that good experience as well

99
00:06:25,041 --> 00:06:30,391
And we've all heard the case of the
disappearing developer where a client

100
00:06:30,391 --> 00:06:33,841
says, "Oh, I've had my website built,
but I just can't get ahold of the

101
00:06:33,841 --> 00:06:39,441
developer to make changes or to, you
know, they ghost me or they take a long

102
00:06:39,441 --> 00:06:41,841
time." And, ugh, trust me, I get it.

103
00:06:41,841 --> 00:06:45,371
As a designer, as someone who's
creative, as someone who spends hours

104
00:06:45,371 --> 00:06:49,431
and hours and hours building websites,
and then by the time you sign it off,

105
00:06:49,431 --> 00:06:52,301
you kind of think, "Oh, I never want
to see that website again." And then

106
00:06:52,301 --> 00:06:53,781
the client's like, "Hi, me again.

107
00:06:53,781 --> 00:06:54,531
Can we just do this?

108
00:06:54,531 --> 00:06:59,021
Can we just do that?" It's one of the
reasons that my follow-up process is

109
00:06:59,021 --> 00:07:03,701
so robust because I want the client to
feel really empowered with their website

110
00:07:04,071 --> 00:07:07,251
because when they feel empowered with
their website, they don't come back

111
00:07:07,321 --> 00:07:08,851
to me to make changes to the site.

112
00:07:08,991 --> 00:07:10,461
So it's win-win.

113
00:07:11,031 --> 00:07:16,011
And have a think about, or have
a really good look at how you

114
00:07:16,051 --> 00:07:18,011
currently sign off your website.

115
00:07:18,641 --> 00:07:21,641
And that means looking at
internal processes like

116
00:07:21,671 --> 00:07:23,221
checklists and things like that.

117
00:07:23,251 --> 00:07:28,671
And I do have an episode on how to
sign off a website really well so

118
00:07:28,671 --> 00:07:30,221
you don't miss any of the steps.

119
00:07:30,261 --> 00:07:34,971
It also has a checklist, um,
download to go with it as well.

120
00:07:35,011 --> 00:07:38,511
So that might be something that
you'd be interested in here as well.

121
00:07:38,931 --> 00:07:41,901
But also, how are we handing
it over to the client?

122
00:07:42,311 --> 00:07:44,431
Are we handing it over
with an admin login?

123
00:07:44,551 --> 00:07:48,021
Are we doing a recorded Zoom
session, for example, teaching

124
00:07:48,021 --> 00:07:49,141
them how to use the site?

125
00:07:49,651 --> 00:07:53,261
Do we have a user manual,
which is what I use?

126
00:07:53,651 --> 00:07:57,801
You know, we don't want to just
hand over a site, say, "Here's

127
00:07:57,861 --> 00:08:02,641
your admin login," and run because,
uh, it never goes well as well.

128
00:08:03,291 --> 00:08:07,231
And so when we're doing that, we really
want to make sure that whether it's the

129
00:08:07,231 --> 00:08:11,241
client or whether it's another designer or
whether it's a VA they've got working on

130
00:08:11,241 --> 00:08:15,421
the website, 'cause that happens more and
more, um, can they log into the website?

131
00:08:15,881 --> 00:08:16,641
Can they manage it?

132
00:08:16,711 --> 00:08:18,021
Can they make changes to it?

133
00:08:18,121 --> 00:08:22,401
Because trust me, locked down
websites just end up a really

134
00:08:22,401 --> 00:08:24,181
big headache for everybody.

135
00:08:24,851 --> 00:08:29,611
And so that's really what I wanted
to come to you about in this episode

136
00:08:29,611 --> 00:08:36,371
today, is when it comes to the tech
we're using, it's not about what

137
00:08:36,371 --> 00:08:43,851
we're using or really even how we're
using it, it's about how we make it.

138
00:08:44,541 --> 00:08:48,581
So really when it comes down to the
tech, it's not really about what you're

139
00:08:48,581 --> 00:08:50,721
using, it's about how you're using it.

140
00:08:50,811 --> 00:08:55,731
And when we are building websites, we
are always building our websites with

141
00:08:55,761 --> 00:08:59,761
two people in mind, the client who has
commissioned us for the website build

142
00:08:59,831 --> 00:09:04,341
because this website belongs to them,
but also the user and the visitor who's

143
00:09:04,341 --> 00:09:05,871
coming to the website, the other end.

144
00:09:06,021 --> 00:09:07,271
Can they navigate it easily?

145
00:09:07,781 --> 00:09:10,751
All the sorts of things that we
know that we need to cover as well.

146
00:09:11,321 --> 00:09:14,931
But one of the reasons that I
think, or I feel that people tech

147
00:09:14,931 --> 00:09:20,191
shame is because there's so much
imposter syndrome in website design.

148
00:09:20,191 --> 00:09:24,411
So many of us are self-taught, including
the really techy developers as well.

149
00:09:24,921 --> 00:09:29,321
And we're not always sure that
we're getting it right and we're

150
00:09:29,321 --> 00:09:30,941
in a really competitive industry.

151
00:09:31,021 --> 00:09:34,501
And within that really competitive
industry, we're winning some

152
00:09:34,501 --> 00:09:36,201
projects, we're losing other projects.

153
00:09:36,261 --> 00:09:38,891
We're going up against lots of
other people for projects at times.

154
00:09:38,961 --> 00:09:45,431
And sometimes you... It might be that
you built using Elementor and you've

155
00:09:45,431 --> 00:09:50,291
lost a project to, you know, a techy
developer who's hard coding something.

156
00:09:50,671 --> 00:09:53,101
And it doesn't mean that the way
that you were doing it is wrong.

157
00:09:53,501 --> 00:09:57,531
It just means that the person decided
to use that other person for...

158
00:09:57,691 --> 00:10:01,151
The client used that other person
for whatever reason they chose to.

159
00:10:01,521 --> 00:10:03,211
And sometimes it's just
a personality thing.

160
00:10:03,211 --> 00:10:06,891
And, you know, I'm lucky I have a waiting
list of clients and my clients are there

161
00:10:06,981 --> 00:10:12,231
really from a personality point of view
that I often get told by clients that

162
00:10:12,261 --> 00:10:15,841
the website build was more money than
they wanted to pay, but they wanted

163
00:10:15,841 --> 00:10:19,131
to work with me and so they were going
to pay the money to do that as well.

164
00:10:19,741 --> 00:10:26,111
And if you are feeling like, "Oh yeah,
Holly, that's it," that I just feel

165
00:10:26,151 --> 00:10:30,401
that maybe my website's not good enough
or, you know, I'm happy with my tech

166
00:10:30,401 --> 00:10:35,241
stack, but I feel exposed when another
designer or developer, you know,

167
00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:40,731
talks about it or something like that,
then I've got an episode on imposter

168
00:10:40,731 --> 00:10:44,881
syndrome and I think it's called
something like When Every, Every Web

169
00:10:44,881 --> 00:10:46,641
Designer Feels Like a Failure At Times.

170
00:10:47,121 --> 00:10:48,061
Go and have a listen to that.

171
00:10:48,141 --> 00:10:49,551
I think it will really help you.

172
00:10:49,551 --> 00:10:52,961
We've all been there and you're not
alone and your tech stack's not broken.

173
00:10:53,351 --> 00:10:54,291
You're not doing it wrong.

174
00:10:54,731 --> 00:11:01,231
And if you just keep having those two
people first and foremost at heart

175
00:11:01,361 --> 00:11:04,831
when you are building your website,
so you are building for your client

176
00:11:05,321 --> 00:11:08,751
because when that website's built in
four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks,

177
00:11:08,991 --> 00:11:10,261
you get to go and live your life.

178
00:11:10,291 --> 00:11:11,641
You don't have to worry about it again.

179
00:11:11,681 --> 00:11:13,771
But this is the client's investment.

180
00:11:13,801 --> 00:11:17,391
It's their online representation of them
and it's something that they're only

181
00:11:17,391 --> 00:11:19,881
going to want to be doing every few years.

182
00:11:19,881 --> 00:11:23,341
So we want to make it a really
good experience for them and when

183
00:11:23,341 --> 00:11:26,791
they're ready to come back for their
new site in a few years time, you

184
00:11:26,791 --> 00:11:30,685
want them to choose you again And
I tell you, that feels really good.

185
00:11:30,685 --> 00:11:34,475
I've just booked a really big couple
website projects with an existing client

186
00:11:34,475 --> 00:11:38,665
who said to me, "In 20 years of working
with, with web designers, I've never

187
00:11:38,665 --> 00:11:43,115
gone back to the same person twice until
now." And, um, that's not about the

188
00:11:43,115 --> 00:11:48,485
tech stack we used, it's about having
the client in mind at all times and the

189
00:11:48,485 --> 00:11:52,025
visitor the other side of the website,
because we want those websites to convert,

190
00:11:52,145 --> 00:11:57,125
and really good user experience coupled
with very good SEO is what converts.

191
00:11:58,325 --> 00:12:00,095
So that's all from me today.

192
00:12:01,105 --> 00:12:02,105
I would love to hear from you.

193
00:12:02,345 --> 00:12:05,625
I would love to hear about
what tech stack you're using,

194
00:12:05,625 --> 00:12:07,275
what you really like about it.

195
00:12:07,585 --> 00:12:10,755
I'm always up for trying more
things, learning more things,

196
00:12:11,065 --> 00:12:12,415
discovering new things as well.

197
00:12:12,455 --> 00:12:17,705
In fact, I am currently working in
a different website page builder.

198
00:12:17,705 --> 00:12:22,015
I'm using... Well, I'm trialing Beaver
Builder, which a couple of my Sparky's,

199
00:12:22,115 --> 00:12:26,985
uh, members, my Spark groups use, and, uh,
one set me up with it and said, "You know,

200
00:12:26,985 --> 00:12:31,085
have a go, see how you find it." And, um,
let me know how you're doing with your

201
00:12:31,085 --> 00:12:36,635
tech stack as well, and if you feel like
you've been tech shamed, how it's made you

202
00:12:36,635 --> 00:12:39,195
feel, or if you're feeling brave enough.

203
00:12:39,545 --> 00:12:42,705
We've all been there when we've tech
shamed one and gone, "Oh no, I'm not going

204
00:12:42,705 --> 00:12:44,735
to use that." Tell me about that too.

205
00:12:44,955 --> 00:12:49,105
You can find me at
hello@websitesmadesimple.co.uk.

206
00:12:49,485 --> 00:12:52,615
You can find me on LinkedIn
at Holly C. Christie.

207
00:12:53,365 --> 00:12:57,415
And until next time, no tech shaming