1 00:00:10,299 --> 00:00:14,139 Do you seem to care more about your organization's backup and 2 00:00:14,139 --> 00:00:16,029 recovery system than anybody else? 3 00:00:16,269 --> 00:00:19,989 This is the podcast for you, and we've got another great episode this week. 4 00:00:20,426 --> 00:00:21,536 Regular listeners. 5 00:00:21,536 --> 00:00:25,436 Hear me harp a lot about the security of their backup and recovery system. 6 00:00:25,946 --> 00:00:29,366 There's nothing more crucial to that than having a good identity 7 00:00:29,426 --> 00:00:31,916 authentication and authorization system. 8 00:00:32,336 --> 00:00:36,866 We've got an expert and identity orchestration here this week to help 9 00:00:36,866 --> 00:00:38,876 us understand this important concept. 10 00:00:39,266 --> 00:00:40,166 I learned a lot. 11 00:00:40,226 --> 00:00:41,156 I hope you will too. 12 00:00:44,512 --> 00:00:47,662 W. Curtis Preston: hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restored All podcast. 13 00:00:47,662 --> 00:00:50,272 I'm your host, w Curtis Preston, a k a, Mr. 14 00:00:50,272 --> 00:00:50,902 Backup. 15 00:00:50,962 --> 00:00:55,252 And I have with me a guy who, honestly, I'm not sure why we're friends. 16 00:00:55,492 --> 00:00:57,332 Uh, Prasanna Malaiyandi 17 00:00:58,072 --> 00:00:59,202 Prasanna Malaiyandi: hey, now what? 18 00:00:59,207 --> 00:01:01,072 What, what did I do this time? 19 00:01:01,732 --> 00:01:04,042 W. Curtis Preston: No, it's the whole, it's the whole movie thing. 20 00:01:04,102 --> 00:01:09,022 So like, you know, like how, how, like you're so not. 21 00:01:09,817 --> 00:01:14,077 Like a person who goes to movies, and I am so a person who goes to movies, I'm 22 00:01:14,077 --> 00:01:17,647 like, like, what do we even talk about? 23 00:01:18,322 --> 00:01:20,512 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, I think what ends up happening is you 24 00:01:20,512 --> 00:01:22,252 explain what goes on in movies. 25 00:01:22,257 --> 00:01:24,632 I sit there and listen to it with the plan of never 26 00:01:24,847 --> 00:01:25,137 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 27 00:01:25,137 --> 00:01:26,817 So you're, so, yeah. 28 00:01:26,877 --> 00:01:30,277 So you're watching, you're watching movies vicariously through me. 29 00:01:30,937 --> 00:01:34,147 Um, and just to, just to. 30 00:01:35,167 --> 00:01:42,037 Illustrate just how much of a goofy movie fanatic I am. 31 00:01:42,277 --> 00:01:45,607 I am as of a few minutes ago. 32 00:01:45,817 --> 00:01:50,567 I am now what some people are referring to as a Barbenheimer. 33 00:01:52,122 --> 00:01:53,747 do, do you know what a Barbenheimer is? 34 00:01:53,767 --> 00:01:54,277 Prasanna. 35 00:01:54,442 --> 00:01:54,892 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Nope. 36 00:01:54,982 --> 00:01:55,772 What's a Barbenheimer? 37 00:01:56,277 --> 00:01:59,757 W. Curtis Preston: So it is, uh, there is next weekend or this 38 00:01:59,757 --> 00:02:02,637 weekend there is the upcoming dual. 39 00:02:03,492 --> 00:02:08,412 Uh, we have two big movie premieres this weekend, both the Barbie movie, which when 40 00:02:08,412 --> 00:02:11,952 I first heard of it, I'm like, that does not sound like a movie that I wanna watch. 41 00:02:12,222 --> 00:02:15,132 But based on the previews and the actors and whatnot it sent out, 42 00:02:15,132 --> 00:02:17,172 I said, you know what, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go see this movie. 43 00:02:17,712 --> 00:02:19,752 And also Oppenheimer, I. 44 00:02:20,132 --> 00:02:25,142 Which I cannot think of a movie more opposite than, uh, the Barbie 45 00:02:25,142 --> 00:02:29,762 movie, the with Oppenheimer, which is the story of the, the guy behind 46 00:02:29,762 --> 00:02:31,682 the creation of the atomic bomb. 47 00:02:31,952 --> 00:02:36,902 And they're saying that, you know, it's a three hour emotionally draining 48 00:02:37,082 --> 00:02:38,972 according to reviews or whatnot. 49 00:02:38,972 --> 00:02:40,982 It's a three hour thing. 50 00:02:40,982 --> 00:02:45,002 What I wanted to do, and so and so, Barbenheimer, are those 51 00:02:45,007 --> 00:02:48,062 of us who have signed up to see these movies back to back. 52 00:02:49,712 --> 00:02:50,682 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, good Lord 53 00:02:50,712 --> 00:02:52,872 W. Curtis Preston: On, on, on the release date. 54 00:02:53,082 --> 00:03:00,342 So I will be seeing the first showing of both of these movies in San Diego. 55 00:03:00,432 --> 00:03:05,532 I'll be seeing, so next Thursday, I'll be seeing the Barbie movie at 3:00 PM 56 00:03:06,102 --> 00:03:10,302 and based on its runtime, it should finish, you know, with credits it should 57 00:03:10,307 --> 00:03:15,567 finish at, at like, Like, including, it's, it's the, the, what do you call 58 00:03:15,567 --> 00:03:17,817 it, not trailers, what the, the credits. 59 00:03:17,847 --> 00:03:18,297 Right. 60 00:03:19,377 --> 00:03:22,017 Including the trailers in the front and the credits in the back. 61 00:03:22,047 --> 00:03:30,567 It will finish at 5:20 PM and so if I take like five minutes for not 62 00:03:30,567 --> 00:03:35,247 watching the credits, I can then run over to the 5:00 PM showing. 63 00:03:35,892 --> 00:03:42,642 Um, of, of Oppenheimer where the, where the, the trailer should still be running. 64 00:03:43,122 --> 00:03:45,342 Uh, and then I'll just find my seat. 65 00:03:45,347 --> 00:03:47,712 And what I wanna know is I wanna see how many people do that. 66 00:03:48,342 --> 00:03:50,742 Uh, what I, what I wanted to do is I want Go ahead. 67 00:03:50,742 --> 00:03:51,292 Go ahead, please. 68 00:03:51,447 --> 00:03:53,547 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I was, I was wondering why you did it in that order 69 00:03:53,552 --> 00:03:55,527 rather than the reverse, given that. 70 00:03:55,932 --> 00:03:58,482 W. Curtis Preston: That's, that's what I was just about to say. 71 00:03:58,482 --> 00:04:04,002 I wanted to see Oppenheimer and then in tears go watch, um, the Barbie movie. 72 00:04:04,332 --> 00:04:05,712 It is not possible. 73 00:04:05,712 --> 00:04:07,302 It reminds me, actually. 74 00:04:07,302 --> 00:04:11,352 So I live in Oceanside, California, and you have the Metrolink trains that go to 75 00:04:11,352 --> 00:04:15,252 LA and you have this, the, the, uh, San Diego coaster that goes to San Diego. 76 00:04:15,552 --> 00:04:17,592 You can't take the trains. 77 00:04:18,057 --> 00:04:24,027 Either way, you can't, you can't get on a, on a Metrolink train and then land and 78 00:04:24,027 --> 00:04:29,187 then get on a, a coaster train and go to San Diego, um, because they specifically 79 00:04:29,187 --> 00:04:30,957 put the time so that that doesn't work. 80 00:04:30,957 --> 00:04:32,937 And that's exactly what happened with Oppenheimer. 81 00:04:33,107 --> 00:04:39,057 Um, and also this way I'm seeing the firsts showing of both. 82 00:04:39,147 --> 00:04:42,627 So I'm with, you know, the true fans, you know, the true 83 00:04:42,627 --> 00:04:45,477 fans, uh, the true Barbie fans. 84 00:04:45,702 --> 00:04:49,332 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I was just gonna ask, so you are going by yourself. 85 00:04:49,332 --> 00:04:52,032 You're not taking your granddaughter, you're going by yourself 86 00:04:52,137 --> 00:04:53,367 W. Curtis Preston: N no, no. 87 00:04:53,397 --> 00:04:54,747 I'm going by myself to 88 00:04:54,882 --> 00:04:56,052 Prasanna Malaiyandi: to the Barbie movie. 89 00:04:57,207 --> 00:04:57,447 W. Curtis Preston: Uhhuh. 90 00:04:58,047 --> 00:04:59,877 Have you seen any of the previews though? 91 00:04:59,952 --> 00:05:00,492 Prasanna Malaiyandi: have not. 92 00:05:01,197 --> 00:05:03,717 W. Curtis Preston: I, I, I, I, I don't think I would 93 00:05:03,717 --> 00:05:07,167 probably take Lily to go see it. 94 00:05:07,227 --> 00:05:10,017 Well, I would definitely not take Lily to go see it before I go see 95 00:05:10,017 --> 00:05:11,457 it first 'cause she's only 10. 96 00:05:12,057 --> 00:05:15,147 Uh, and I think there's probably gonna be some stuff in there that's 97 00:05:15,402 --> 00:05:16,382 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Is it PG 13? 98 00:05:16,437 --> 00:05:16,557 W. Curtis Preston: old. 99 00:05:17,757 --> 00:05:21,687 I, I, I, I, I think it might be, um, I know it's not g 100 00:05:22,287 --> 00:05:23,757 I know it's not G for sure. 101 00:05:24,417 --> 00:05:27,207 I don't even know if they make G movies anymore, but yeah. 102 00:05:27,212 --> 00:05:29,637 So this is what I'm talking about for those of us, yeah. 103 00:05:29,637 --> 00:05:31,047 And the times just don't work out. 104 00:05:31,047 --> 00:05:35,157 So like if in order to see the Oppenheimer and then Barbie, you have to have this 105 00:05:35,157 --> 00:05:37,917 big, um, delay in between the two. 106 00:05:38,487 --> 00:05:39,567 Prasanna Malaiyandi: and you can use a delay. 107 00:05:39,567 --> 00:05:40,497 Go eat dinner. 108 00:05:41,307 --> 00:05:41,997 Take a nap. 109 00:05:44,637 --> 00:05:45,987 W. Curtis Preston: Well, you, you know me, I'm 110 00:05:46,107 --> 00:05:46,797 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I know you. 111 00:05:47,037 --> 00:05:49,077 Yeah, exactly. 112 00:05:49,857 --> 00:05:50,187 Killing me. 113 00:05:50,377 --> 00:05:51,907 W. Curtis Preston: I'm gonna bring our guest on today. 114 00:05:52,162 --> 00:05:55,792 He has been in the cybersecurity industry for over 25 years and is 115 00:05:55,792 --> 00:06:00,442 now the c e O of Strata Identity and Identity Orchestration Company. 116 00:06:00,922 --> 00:06:03,592 You can find them@strata.io. 117 00:06:03,652 --> 00:06:06,292 Welcome to the pod Eric Olden 118 00:06:06,912 --> 00:06:07,422 Eric Olden: Nice. 119 00:06:07,482 --> 00:06:08,442 Thanks for having me. 120 00:06:08,502 --> 00:06:12,342 I'm looking forward to it, uh, the conversation and, uh, I'm looking 121 00:06:12,342 --> 00:06:14,352 forward to, to the movies as well. 122 00:06:14,412 --> 00:06:17,492 You, you've got my interest piqued and when you were talking about 123 00:06:17,752 --> 00:06:23,142 the, the mashup, I was, yeah, Barbenheimer, that's, it's gotta 124 00:06:23,142 --> 00:06:25,872 be a one heck of a mashup, but I 125 00:06:25,972 --> 00:06:27,622 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Was Eric looking for tickets? 126 00:06:27,627 --> 00:06:30,232 Were you looking up tickets while Curtis and I were talking? 127 00:06:32,662 --> 00:06:32,902 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 128 00:06:32,902 --> 00:06:36,682 It's, um, right now if you get your tickets, now you, you get 129 00:06:36,682 --> 00:06:38,092 your choice of seats, right? 130 00:06:38,152 --> 00:06:40,912 Um, although with Oppenheimer it was pretty full. 131 00:06:40,972 --> 00:06:46,822 It was, uh, uh, but, um, and today I saw, actually saw Mission Impossible today. 132 00:06:47,392 --> 00:06:47,932 Or Yeah, I'm sorry. 133 00:06:47,932 --> 00:06:48,592 That was yesterday. 134 00:06:48,682 --> 00:06:50,542 I saw Mission Impossible yesterday, by the way. 135 00:06:52,042 --> 00:06:53,122 Amazing movie. 136 00:06:53,182 --> 00:06:53,842 That guy. 137 00:06:54,532 --> 00:06:56,452 Uh, that movie's just over the top. 138 00:06:56,452 --> 00:06:59,842 Gotta see that movie and gotta see it on a big screen as big a screen as you can. 139 00:06:59,902 --> 00:07:03,652 I think if, if there's ever a movie that's meant to be seen on a big screen, 140 00:07:03,652 --> 00:07:05,512 it's the Mission Impossible movie. 141 00:07:06,592 --> 00:07:13,822 Anyway, but you know what we have to start with, uh, Eric, uh, is, is I need to know 142 00:07:13,882 --> 00:07:17,482 the story behind, uh, bought Not Sold, 143 00:07:18,812 --> 00:07:19,652 Eric Olden: Ah, yes. 144 00:07:19,652 --> 00:07:20,612 Why not sold? 145 00:07:20,972 --> 00:07:21,512 Uh, 146 00:07:21,687 --> 00:07:23,722 W. Curtis Preston: both your Twitter handle and your, 147 00:07:23,722 --> 00:07:26,152 um, your LinkedIn identity. 148 00:07:26,617 --> 00:07:30,317 Eric Olden: Yeah, and I own the, the domain boughtnotsold.com. 149 00:07:30,337 --> 00:07:31,747 So the full set. 150 00:07:31,807 --> 00:07:38,677 Uh, so I guess the short of it is that, you know, I've been in, uh, technology 151 00:07:39,217 --> 00:07:44,857 sales and software development and all that for over 25 years, and I've seen 152 00:07:44,857 --> 00:07:47,437 this kind of evolution of the way that. 153 00:07:48,547 --> 00:07:52,087 You know, people consume technology and you think about that, people talk 154 00:07:52,087 --> 00:07:57,337 often about the consumerization of technology and the move to the cloud and 155 00:07:57,517 --> 00:07:59,227 things like that are accelerating that. 156 00:07:59,227 --> 00:08:04,567 But if you think about the experience that, um, people go through when 157 00:08:04,567 --> 00:08:06,037 they're trying to solve a problem, I. 158 00:08:06,412 --> 00:08:10,852 I've yet to meet anyone who says, oh, please call me and sell me something. 159 00:08:11,272 --> 00:08:13,702 But people need to buy things. 160 00:08:13,702 --> 00:08:20,722 And so if you flip that general relationship 180 degrees and you 161 00:08:20,727 --> 00:08:24,622 help people buy things and not sell things to them, it sounds 162 00:08:24,622 --> 00:08:26,182 like a semantic difference. 163 00:08:26,182 --> 00:08:32,332 But it's a world of difference when, um, applied correctly because, um, And you 164 00:08:32,332 --> 00:08:35,842 think about the whole process of figuring out a solution and you wanna do your 165 00:08:35,842 --> 00:08:40,762 research and you're gonna get onto Google and you're gonna do all of the content and 166 00:08:40,762 --> 00:08:45,472 consume all of the videos and everything that goes into making a decision. 167 00:08:45,832 --> 00:08:50,182 And I like to think of setting things up so that people have a great 168 00:08:50,182 --> 00:08:54,562 experience going through that on their own and lead them to a conclusion. 169 00:08:54,562 --> 00:08:57,322 Let them make a decision, and that's bought not sold. 170 00:08:59,002 --> 00:08:59,812 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I like it. 171 00:09:00,247 --> 00:09:05,587 Yeah, it, it, it, having worked at some companies in the past, I think 172 00:09:05,647 --> 00:09:08,947 sometimes those companies, when they sell to enterprises, they would 173 00:09:08,952 --> 00:09:12,307 talk about sort of being like a trusted partner or a trusted advisor. 174 00:09:12,487 --> 00:09:15,247 But I like what you're talking about Eric, which is going even beyond that 175 00:09:15,247 --> 00:09:19,987 and sort of allowing the end user to be that sort of self-sufficient, right. 176 00:09:20,137 --> 00:09:23,287 Find what they need, figure it out, go on the journey, but give 177 00:09:23,287 --> 00:09:26,257 them the information they need in order to come to that conclusion. 178 00:09:27,862 --> 00:09:29,302 Eric Olden: Exactly, you're, you're exactly right. 179 00:09:29,302 --> 00:09:32,752 Prasanna and, and on Strata io, the website. 180 00:09:33,232 --> 00:09:36,832 Um, for four years we have not gated our content. 181 00:09:36,982 --> 00:09:40,402 So a lot of times people, you say, oh, I'm interested. 182 00:09:40,402 --> 00:09:41,752 I wanna read that white paper. 183 00:09:41,752 --> 00:09:46,402 I want to get this report, and I don't want to have that spam 184 00:09:46,432 --> 00:09:49,762 when I give my email or someone's gonna harass me on the phone. 185 00:09:50,137 --> 00:09:54,247 Uh, instead we just say, Hey, look, the content, if it's good, is gonna teach 186 00:09:54,247 --> 00:09:59,857 people and educate them, and educated people make decisions more quickly and 187 00:09:59,857 --> 00:10:01,217 they're more confident in their decision. 188 00:10:01,817 --> 00:10:01,937 I. 189 00:10:01,937 --> 00:10:05,677 Therefore they spend more money and they, they, you know, make a bigger investment. 190 00:10:05,677 --> 00:10:10,717 So, um, I realize I'm giving away all my secrets here, guys, so, uh, but that's 191 00:10:10,717 --> 00:10:12,547 how it works in, in practice though. 192 00:10:12,547 --> 00:10:15,697 Just let, just give the good content out there. 193 00:10:15,787 --> 00:10:18,697 Don't have people, uh, feel like they're obligated. 194 00:10:19,087 --> 00:10:21,157 Uh, and if it's really good content, you know what you're 195 00:10:21,157 --> 00:10:22,987 doing, uh, it should come through. 196 00:10:22,987 --> 00:10:26,917 And then people want to buy from the person that educates 197 00:10:26,917 --> 00:10:28,267 them and treats them the best. 198 00:10:28,267 --> 00:10:30,487 So that's kind of, uh, applied. 199 00:10:31,297 --> 00:10:34,027 W. Curtis Preston: So I guess you would, you would have a, a, a call to action, 200 00:10:34,027 --> 00:10:38,137 I suppose, in the content somewhere basically saying, Hey, if, if you 201 00:10:38,137 --> 00:10:40,807 found this helpful, then, then go here. 202 00:10:41,137 --> 00:10:42,307 Is that, is that the idea? 203 00:10:42,682 --> 00:10:44,032 Eric Olden: Yeah, that's the idea. 204 00:10:44,092 --> 00:10:47,752 And you know, we have a self-service product, so if 205 00:10:47,752 --> 00:10:49,043 someone says, oh, that seems cool. 206 00:10:49,732 --> 00:10:51,952 What is this identity orchestration thing? 207 00:10:51,957 --> 00:10:52,832 Let me try it out. 208 00:10:52,972 --> 00:10:55,777 And then, Couple clicks, you're in the product. 209 00:10:56,047 --> 00:10:57,817 Again, it's all free to start. 210 00:10:58,177 --> 00:11:03,067 And, um, you can just see if it works and if it does, you know, people love it. 211 00:11:03,097 --> 00:11:09,337 And, um, you know, it's been a nice way to align us with our customers and, 212 00:11:09,337 --> 00:11:11,047 and get the friction out of the way. 213 00:11:11,052 --> 00:11:13,867 So, but it's, it is pretty radical when we bring in new, 214 00:11:14,287 --> 00:11:15,517 uh, people on the sales team. 215 00:11:15,517 --> 00:11:17,917 We say, look, don't, um, don't spam. 216 00:11:17,947 --> 00:11:19,927 We don't send unsolicited emails. 217 00:11:20,317 --> 00:11:22,867 From marketing, people are like, well, how do you do it? 218 00:11:22,927 --> 00:11:26,017 You say, well, you be patient and they'll come to you if you, you 219 00:11:26,022 --> 00:11:28,147 know, build into this content model. 220 00:11:28,177 --> 00:11:30,877 And so, uh, it, it has been great. 221 00:11:30,907 --> 00:11:31,897 It's been wonderful for us. 222 00:11:31,897 --> 00:11:33,277 We've been really happy with it. 223 00:11:33,862 --> 00:11:34,042 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 224 00:11:34,042 --> 00:11:35,992 No, I like that transparency aspect. 225 00:11:35,997 --> 00:11:38,782 Now, do you also provide transparency in pricing? 226 00:11:38,782 --> 00:11:41,092 Because I know some vendors, right, they're like, Hey, by the 227 00:11:41,097 --> 00:11:43,222 way, if you need more information, give us your email address. 228 00:11:43,642 --> 00:11:43,912 Right? 229 00:11:43,912 --> 00:11:45,112 Or call a person. 230 00:11:45,112 --> 00:11:48,922 Do you also provide sort of that transparency on your website? 231 00:11:48,922 --> 00:11:48,982 I. 232 00:11:49,702 --> 00:11:53,227 Eric Olden: Yeah, all the pricing's right there give a little pricing calculator 233 00:11:53,647 --> 00:11:55,717 and um, we take that even further. 234 00:11:55,987 --> 00:11:58,927 The whole idea of consumption based pricing, I think that's 235 00:11:58,927 --> 00:12:00,877 another aspect of the bot not sold. 236 00:12:01,237 --> 00:12:04,807 Concept is that if it works, you're gonna buy more of it. 237 00:12:04,867 --> 00:12:09,247 So yeah, I've always felt like when people are saying, Hey, go whatever the, 238 00:12:09,247 --> 00:12:13,567 the thing may be you're buying something that costs a million dollars and you 239 00:12:13,567 --> 00:12:17,737 gotta make a million dollar decision that's more risky and stressful than if 240 00:12:17,742 --> 00:12:21,307 you say, Hey, let's just do 10% of that a hundred thousand dollars decision. 241 00:12:21,622 --> 00:12:27,412 Or 10,000, whatever is appropriate, and let the product prove itself out. 242 00:12:27,412 --> 00:12:29,482 And then people will use it more. 243 00:12:29,482 --> 00:12:32,572 And the more they use it, the more value they get out of it. 244 00:12:32,577 --> 00:12:34,762 So the more willing they are to pay more for it. 245 00:12:34,762 --> 00:12:37,912 And so everybody wins, but it is a bit unusual. 246 00:12:38,842 --> 00:12:41,422 It all, uh, relies on that transparency. 247 00:12:42,652 --> 00:12:45,712 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, and I, I, I think that would also qualify. 248 00:12:45,772 --> 00:12:48,802 Would you call yourselves a P L G company as well? 249 00:12:49,432 --> 00:12:53,242 Eric Olden: Yeah, we, we, we do consider ourselves a hybrid because 250 00:12:53,242 --> 00:12:58,012 we have the full self-service p l g, front to end, and you can do all 251 00:12:58,017 --> 00:12:59,482 of it without ever talking to us. 252 00:12:59,482 --> 00:13:04,792 But we are in the enterprise, so a lot of the stuff that we do, 253 00:13:04,792 --> 00:13:09,217 there's more complexity and so people want to be able to, um, Get expert 254 00:13:09,217 --> 00:13:11,287 advice in kind of a consulting way. 255 00:13:11,287 --> 00:13:12,787 And so we, we offer that as well. 256 00:13:12,787 --> 00:13:19,057 So it's a, a hybrid model and um, but it's all based on that whole bot not sold idea. 257 00:13:19,057 --> 00:13:24,427 So, you know, our goal is to be no, no pushy anything because, um, 258 00:13:24,952 --> 00:13:29,122 You know, if it works, that that's the kind of, what's the saying? 259 00:13:29,127 --> 00:13:32,512 The product will prove itself out and no product sells itself. 260 00:13:32,872 --> 00:13:37,312 But I think you can have the product prove itself out and that, I think 261 00:13:37,312 --> 00:13:38,962 is the, is a big win for everybody. 262 00:13:38,962 --> 00:13:39,022 I. 263 00:13:39,502 --> 00:13:39,922 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Curtis, 264 00:13:39,997 --> 00:13:43,777 W. Curtis Preston: way, I, I have to, yeah, I was, I, I have to define p l 265 00:13:43,777 --> 00:13:48,127 G as product-led growth, which is a way to, to build a company and, uh, 266 00:13:48,127 --> 00:13:51,607 Prasanna, I, I bet you're gonna ask me about the, the disclaimer, aren't you? 267 00:13:53,047 --> 00:13:53,557 Okay. 268 00:13:53,617 --> 00:13:54,007 Alright. 269 00:13:54,007 --> 00:13:58,207 So, uh, throughout our usual disclaimer, uh, Prasanna and I work 270 00:13:58,212 --> 00:14:01,627 for different companies and, uh, we're not representing either of them here. 271 00:14:01,627 --> 00:14:06,337 This is an independent podcast and, uh, the opinions that you hear are ours. 272 00:14:07,357 --> 00:14:08,737 Also, if you like us, rate us. 273 00:14:08,737 --> 00:14:10,237 If you hate us, don't rate us. 274 00:14:10,477 --> 00:14:16,837 Um, and, um, the, uh, uh, and then, um, uh, if you wanna reach, if you wanna 275 00:14:16,842 --> 00:14:20,377 be part of the conversation, just reach out to me at WC Preston on Twitter 276 00:14:20,617 --> 00:14:23,377 or, uh, w Curtis Preston at gmail. 277 00:14:23,647 --> 00:14:30,487 And as of like two or three days ago, w Curtis Preston on Threads. 278 00:14:30,817 --> 00:14:34,237 Um, and, uh, I wish you all the best results over there. 279 00:14:34,777 --> 00:14:38,497 Uh, at the, you know, the, the latest social media company. 280 00:14:38,827 --> 00:14:44,167 Uh, anyway, so Eric, um, uh, here's a really big question. 281 00:14:44,617 --> 00:14:47,257 What is identity orchestration? 282 00:14:49,077 --> 00:14:50,097 Eric Olden: Yeah, great question. 283 00:14:50,157 --> 00:14:55,587 Um, identity orchestration is, um, I'll kind of break those terms down. 284 00:14:55,587 --> 00:15:00,387 Identity management, which is the way that users access applications and data. 285 00:15:00,907 --> 00:15:02,977 And everything that goes around that. 286 00:15:03,367 --> 00:15:09,157 And the orchestration side is think about automating, uh, different 287 00:15:09,367 --> 00:15:12,337 flows or multi-step, uh, situations. 288 00:15:12,937 --> 00:15:19,207 Where this is, uh, useful is in multi-cloud, and the typical situation 289 00:15:19,207 --> 00:15:25,207 that we see is that an organization has a, uh, on-premises private cloud. 290 00:15:25,207 --> 00:15:27,787 They've got their data center, they've been running for some time. 291 00:15:28,087 --> 00:15:30,997 And they're at some point in their cloud journey where they've 292 00:15:30,997 --> 00:15:33,547 got one or more public clouds. 293 00:15:33,877 --> 00:15:38,587 And when you've got different places where your workloads run, you've got 294 00:15:38,587 --> 00:15:43,777 different identity providers or IDPs, so they're built into the cloud. 295 00:15:43,777 --> 00:15:49,027 So on Amazon you have a W Ss Kognito on Azure, you've got Azure 296 00:15:49,027 --> 00:15:50,917 Active Directory on premises. 297 00:15:51,292 --> 00:15:55,132 You've got things like Oracle and SiteMinder and uh, things 298 00:15:55,132 --> 00:15:56,602 of that type active directory. 299 00:15:57,022 --> 00:16:01,612 So when you start to think about how do we make all of these things work together, 300 00:16:01,942 --> 00:16:04,192 that's where you need to do two things. 301 00:16:04,192 --> 00:16:05,932 One, integrate everything. 302 00:16:06,232 --> 00:16:08,782 And we call that an identity fabric. 303 00:16:08,782 --> 00:16:11,752 And you can think about that as an abstraction layer that 304 00:16:11,752 --> 00:16:13,162 makes everything work together. 305 00:16:13,492 --> 00:16:16,372 And the second part is the orchestration. 306 00:16:16,402 --> 00:16:19,762 So you think about what we've done in computing. 307 00:16:20,107 --> 00:16:24,997 With Kubernetes and virtualization over time, you had more and more 308 00:16:24,997 --> 00:16:26,977 abstraction away from the hardware. 309 00:16:27,187 --> 00:16:30,907 So today we talk about containers and Kubernetes and 310 00:16:31,207 --> 00:16:32,977 moving into serverless, right? 311 00:16:32,977 --> 00:16:35,707 All of those are strata of abstraction. 312 00:16:36,127 --> 00:16:40,717 We applied that same thinking to identity management and said, look, instead of 313 00:16:40,717 --> 00:16:45,442 thinking about and being locked into any one identity provider, What if you can 314 00:16:45,442 --> 00:16:51,832 abstract them and then allow you to mix and match what identity systems make sense 315 00:16:51,832 --> 00:16:56,842 for your risk profile or your compliance or your, uh, management requirements. 316 00:16:56,842 --> 00:16:59,452 So it's a brand new category. 317 00:16:59,482 --> 00:17:02,152 Um, we started this in 2019. 318 00:17:02,512 --> 00:17:06,682 We shipped a product, uh, our product's called Mavericks, and uh, it's the 319 00:17:06,682 --> 00:17:08,782 first identity orchestration platform. 320 00:17:08,782 --> 00:17:09,022 And. 321 00:17:09,427 --> 00:17:13,327 We think about building the VMware of identity, and that's what, 322 00:17:13,327 --> 00:17:14,977 uh, identity orchestration is. 323 00:17:15,997 --> 00:17:19,327 Prasanna Malaiyandi: No, that's pretty awesome, especially given how complex 324 00:17:19,327 --> 00:17:23,437 some of these environments are and people wanting to not be locked in. 325 00:17:23,437 --> 00:17:23,707 Right? 326 00:17:23,887 --> 00:17:28,267 That's one of the biggest challenges is once you start using like Microsoft 327 00:17:28,477 --> 00:17:31,807 from On-Premises and you, you're like, oh, now just use Azure, but maybe 328 00:17:31,807 --> 00:17:33,667 Azure isn't the best option for you. 329 00:17:33,667 --> 00:17:35,347 Maybe you do want use a w S. 330 00:17:36,007 --> 00:17:36,997 Do you also help? 331 00:17:37,497 --> 00:17:42,297 Make it easy for people so they don't need to understand all the underlying 332 00:17:42,297 --> 00:17:48,537 complexities of say A W Ss or Azure and active directory instances There. 333 00:17:49,462 --> 00:17:50,362 Eric Olden: Yeah, absolutely. 334 00:17:50,367 --> 00:17:52,822 And, and that's the role of the abstraction layer. 335 00:17:52,912 --> 00:17:57,652 Uh, it, it integrates with all of the proprietary, uh, APIs of 336 00:17:57,652 --> 00:17:59,662 the various systems and these. 337 00:18:00,292 --> 00:18:02,302 Application programming interfaces. 338 00:18:02,302 --> 00:18:06,292 The, the way that you communicate with software, um, think about 339 00:18:06,292 --> 00:18:09,862 those in a metaphor of like, they're all in different languages. 340 00:18:09,862 --> 00:18:14,752 Some are in Spanish, some are in Japanese, some are in, um, uh, Korean. 341 00:18:15,172 --> 00:18:20,122 And instead of trying to learn all of these different languages, the abstraction 342 00:18:20,122 --> 00:18:25,432 layer is kind of a universal language translation, so that it handles the 343 00:18:25,432 --> 00:18:28,012 translation of one thing into the other. 344 00:18:28,282 --> 00:18:33,352 So that the application doesn't have to, and that means that the, on the 345 00:18:33,357 --> 00:18:38,062 application side of the abstraction layer, what it's seeing is effectively 346 00:18:38,062 --> 00:18:41,692 a facade of what it expects to look at. 347 00:18:41,692 --> 00:18:46,702 If it was originally communicating with Oracle, for instance, and you want to 348 00:18:46,702 --> 00:18:52,177 switch out Oracle for Okta in the cloud, Well, the abstraction layer would have 349 00:18:52,177 --> 00:18:58,417 the application talking to it using whatever protocol is already working. 350 00:18:58,417 --> 00:19:03,337 So like things like, uh, SAML or security assertion, markup language 351 00:19:03,337 --> 00:19:07,537 and Open ID Connect, or O I D C or some of the old school products that 352 00:19:07,537 --> 00:19:11,047 use cookies and um, H T T P headers. 353 00:19:11,107 --> 00:19:15,307 So all of these different ways that applications consume identity. 354 00:19:15,682 --> 00:19:19,942 Are universally managed by that abstraction layer. 355 00:19:20,092 --> 00:19:24,892 And why that's important is that you don't wanna rewrite your application to 356 00:19:24,892 --> 00:19:29,122 have it work with a different identity provider because that's expensive. 357 00:19:29,127 --> 00:19:33,232 It takes a long time, and there's a lot of cases where you just can't do it because 358 00:19:33,262 --> 00:19:37,342 maybe it's a packaged to application, you don't have the source code to. 359 00:19:37,672 --> 00:19:42,922 So this approach of identity orchestration allows you to swap out and mix and 360 00:19:42,927 --> 00:19:45,052 match the different identity providers. 361 00:19:45,442 --> 00:19:49,192 On under the covers without ever rewriting the application. 362 00:19:49,282 --> 00:19:49,792 So 363 00:19:49,807 --> 00:19:50,287 Prasanna Malaiyandi: like N 364 00:19:50,632 --> 00:19:50,902 Eric Olden: make it. 365 00:19:51,502 --> 00:19:53,122 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, it's like for file storage, right? 366 00:19:53,122 --> 00:19:55,942 You had N F S as a protocol that anyone can switch out. 367 00:19:55,942 --> 00:19:59,512 As long as the vendor was supporting N F Ss, you were all good to go. 368 00:19:59,722 --> 00:20:01,972 And just kind of going back and thinking, I know Curtis, we were 369 00:20:01,972 --> 00:20:03,622 talking about movies earlier, right? 370 00:20:03,892 --> 00:20:05,872 It's kind of like what you guys have built is kind of like 371 00:20:05,877 --> 00:20:07,792 Babelfish for identity, right? 372 00:20:07,792 --> 00:20:10,792 It allows you to translate between various languages, right? 373 00:20:10,792 --> 00:20:13,642 And provide that same abstraction regardless of what the 374 00:20:13,642 --> 00:20:15,622 underlying identity provider is. 375 00:20:16,882 --> 00:20:17,092 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 376 00:20:17,092 --> 00:20:21,502 Wh which led to, which is leading to my question, but you. 377 00:20:22,582 --> 00:20:25,762 I, I had a question and then you said something that made 378 00:20:25,762 --> 00:20:27,052 my question even harder. 379 00:20:27,352 --> 00:20:30,832 So, so it's sort of two questions in one. 380 00:20:30,837 --> 00:20:37,522 One is, um, how would you contrast this to something like Okta, what Okta does? 381 00:20:37,852 --> 00:20:40,462 And then in the middle of like, waiting to ask that question, you 382 00:20:40,462 --> 00:20:42,592 said you work with Okta, right? 383 00:20:42,592 --> 00:20:44,302 As an identity provider. 384 00:20:44,782 --> 00:20:48,052 Um, and so in that case it would seem like there's. 385 00:20:48,442 --> 00:20:52,792 Multiple layers between the actual application and, and the customer. 386 00:20:53,152 --> 00:20:55,822 So, so I was just a little, so there you go. 387 00:20:55,822 --> 00:20:58,282 That I don't know, I'm sure there's a question in there somewhere. 388 00:20:58,737 --> 00:21:01,767 Eric Olden: Well, that's a perfect hybrid question from the 389 00:21:01,827 --> 00:21:03,597 Barb Inheimer, uh, school of. 390 00:21:03,687 --> 00:21:05,302 W. Curtis Preston: the, from the Barb Heimer. 391 00:21:05,512 --> 00:21:06,142 Absolutely. 392 00:21:06,147 --> 00:21:08,452 From the Heimer School of Questioning. 393 00:21:09,802 --> 00:21:10,222 Eric Olden: Yeah. 394 00:21:10,222 --> 00:21:14,632 So, um, identity providers are, um, there's a lot of 395 00:21:14,632 --> 00:21:16,042 good ones that are out there. 396 00:21:16,042 --> 00:21:17,302 Okta's a good one. 397 00:21:17,332 --> 00:21:19,792 Um, Microsoft does great stuff with Azure. 398 00:21:19,852 --> 00:21:22,942 They're Azure products, Azure Active Directory. 399 00:21:22,942 --> 00:21:23,932 You've got new ones. 400 00:21:23,932 --> 00:21:25,072 You've got old ones, right? 401 00:21:25,072 --> 00:21:26,122 So those are new ones. 402 00:21:26,677 --> 00:21:31,147 Uh, things like hyper is a different way to do passwordless authentication. 403 00:21:31,447 --> 00:21:35,767 And then you've got the old ones that are on-prem, typically the Oracles, 404 00:21:35,767 --> 00:21:38,587 the cas, IBMs and things like that. 405 00:21:39,007 --> 00:21:44,437 So, um, what an identity fabric is, it's an agnostic, vendor neutral way to 406 00:21:44,437 --> 00:21:47,257 make all of your infrastructure work. 407 00:21:47,722 --> 00:21:48,562 Together, right? 408 00:21:48,562 --> 00:21:53,602 So we specialize in working with everybody so that our customers are 409 00:21:53,602 --> 00:21:55,732 free to choose whatever they want. 410 00:21:55,762 --> 00:21:58,312 And so we partner with all of the vendors. 411 00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:02,692 We have a really broad platform that integrates with all of the major 412 00:22:02,692 --> 00:22:07,912 technologies that are out there, and it's all in support of that no lock-in. 413 00:22:07,912 --> 00:22:11,452 So the customers can say, Hey, you know, 'cause one of the things 414 00:22:11,452 --> 00:22:13,942 that a lot of times, uh, identity. 415 00:22:15,142 --> 00:22:20,452 Shows up in, in interesting ways is mergers and acquisitions and very 416 00:22:20,452 --> 00:22:25,972 common situation where you could have one company who is a Microsoft shop 417 00:22:25,972 --> 00:22:30,742 through and through, they acquire another company that's an Okta shop well. 418 00:22:31,342 --> 00:22:34,252 Identity isn't one of those things that you can just turn a switch 419 00:22:34,252 --> 00:22:36,472 on without some software, right? 420 00:22:36,982 --> 00:22:39,472 And so you're gonna have a challenge because you've got two 421 00:22:39,472 --> 00:22:43,612 different identity systems, two different vendors, and they weren't 422 00:22:43,612 --> 00:22:45,412 engineered to work with one another. 423 00:22:45,622 --> 00:22:51,232 So orchestration and the abstraction layer allows you to, um, basically mix and 424 00:22:51,232 --> 00:22:56,782 match whatever you want so your employees from the original company can use their. 425 00:22:57,172 --> 00:23:03,202 Uh, logins out of Azure, as well as the new employees from the acquired company. 426 00:23:03,412 --> 00:23:07,072 They can use their login on Okta, and the abstraction layer 427 00:23:07,072 --> 00:23:08,302 brings the two of them together. 428 00:23:12,307 --> 00:23:14,617 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So there, Curtis, that's why it's a new category 429 00:23:14,617 --> 00:23:15,997 called Identity Orchestration. 430 00:23:16,507 --> 00:23:16,897 Not 431 00:23:17,837 --> 00:23:18,127 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 432 00:23:18,357 --> 00:23:18,647 Yeah. 433 00:23:18,767 --> 00:23:23,017 I, I guess, I guess again, because I don't live in that world, Right. 434 00:23:23,067 --> 00:23:28,027 I, I was thinking this more like, like you said, like Okta being an, they're an 435 00:23:28,027 --> 00:23:34,117 identity provider and you're abstracting that, and so people could, and I get, is 436 00:23:34,117 --> 00:23:40,447 it common for customers to have multiple identity providers within, you know, 437 00:23:40,447 --> 00:23:45,877 obviously in an m and a situation, but I'm guessing there are other situations where 438 00:23:46,267 --> 00:23:48,727 they have an I D P that doesn't support. 439 00:23:49,672 --> 00:23:53,102 A particular part of their environment, and then you help solve that as well. 440 00:23:54,132 --> 00:23:55,287 Eric Olden: Yeah, exactly. 441 00:23:55,292 --> 00:23:59,067 And so think about all of these proliferation of identity 442 00:23:59,067 --> 00:24:05,337 providers on-prem, in the cloud, uh, acquisitions, divestitures. 443 00:24:05,337 --> 00:24:08,247 So there's a lot of reasons why you're gonna have more than one today. 444 00:24:08,727 --> 00:24:13,257 Um, and I think the, the way to think about it is similar 445 00:24:13,257 --> 00:24:15,717 to, uh, virtualization. 446 00:24:16,102 --> 00:24:20,272 And, you know, Pana, we were talking earlier about Silicon Valley and I grew 447 00:24:20,272 --> 00:24:27,052 up, uh, driving on 1 0 1 from the South Bay to San Francisco, and I'd see all of 448 00:24:27,052 --> 00:24:29,182 the tech companies on my way to school. 449 00:24:29,242 --> 00:24:33,682 And what, um, over time, I mean, there was a point where the, the 450 00:24:33,682 --> 00:24:38,782 big hardware companies, the server wars of the nineties, and, uh, 451 00:24:38,782 --> 00:24:43,642 these people like Dell, these people like San other people like hp. 452 00:24:44,467 --> 00:24:46,867 When's the last time people talk about hardware? 453 00:24:47,137 --> 00:24:51,457 They don't because it's all now VMs and it's all cloud services. 454 00:24:51,817 --> 00:24:54,577 So that's an example of how abstraction works. 455 00:24:54,577 --> 00:24:59,287 And so you no longer need to think about whether you're running on uh, one 456 00:24:59,287 --> 00:25:01,447 hardware provider or the other people. 457 00:25:01,447 --> 00:25:05,287 Just think about a higher level of the concept of computing and say, well, 458 00:25:05,527 --> 00:25:07,747 I've got a vm, or I've got a container. 459 00:25:08,107 --> 00:25:10,957 And it doesn't matter what hardware runs on. 460 00:25:11,347 --> 00:25:15,667 That's where identity is headed with orchestration is to say, look, stop 461 00:25:15,667 --> 00:25:19,927 thinking about which of the identity providers that you're using, assume 462 00:25:20,167 --> 00:25:22,087 you're gonna want to use more than one. 463 00:25:22,417 --> 00:25:27,157 And once you have that capability, you can just do whatever you want, right? 464 00:25:27,157 --> 00:25:30,877 You can just swap out different things for whatever use case that matters. 465 00:25:31,237 --> 00:25:36,127 So really helps with complexity, fragmentation, and a situation 466 00:25:36,127 --> 00:25:38,107 where you have many instead of one. 467 00:25:39,232 --> 00:25:41,242 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Could you talk, and I think you kind of touched on 468 00:25:41,242 --> 00:25:42,742 it, could you talk about some of the. 469 00:25:43,717 --> 00:25:48,097 Issues customers face when they have multiple identity providers 470 00:25:48,217 --> 00:25:51,427 and sort of why they really need this identity orchestration. 471 00:25:51,427 --> 00:25:54,307 I know we talked about sort of being able to swap out things, but what 472 00:25:54,307 --> 00:25:59,047 about some of the issues that customers can run into by trying to manage 473 00:25:59,047 --> 00:26:00,787 multiple identity providers today? 474 00:26:02,227 --> 00:26:07,447 Eric Olden: Yeah, a, a very common thing is coexistence, and we see this all 475 00:26:07,452 --> 00:26:12,367 the time where people have stuff that works on premises and they wanna move 476 00:26:12,367 --> 00:26:16,807 to the cloud, and they've gotta have coexistence between the old and the new. 477 00:26:17,227 --> 00:26:20,437 So that's a, pretty much everybody's got that problem. 478 00:26:20,557 --> 00:26:25,777 Um, even if, say you're using Microsoft on both ends, active directory on-prem 479 00:26:25,777 --> 00:26:30,157 does not work with Azure AD in the cloud marketing notwithstanding, right? 480 00:26:30,157 --> 00:26:35,557 But the point is, is that you can, you have the situation all the time. 481 00:26:35,947 --> 00:26:41,467 Uh, another problem that people run into are in very specialized areas of identity. 482 00:26:41,497 --> 00:26:45,907 For instance, in, uh, multi-factor authentication or M F A. 483 00:26:46,642 --> 00:26:52,252 Where people want to use a certain kind of, um, authentication 484 00:26:52,252 --> 00:26:54,592 that doesn't rely on passwords. 485 00:26:54,982 --> 00:26:59,272 Well, I think we've all seen the situation where maybe you're used to 486 00:26:59,272 --> 00:27:03,742 using your biometric on your phone and well, you leave your phone in 487 00:27:03,742 --> 00:27:09,112 the car, you still gotta log into your, your site, but you can't use a 488 00:27:09,112 --> 00:27:10,942 password because that's not secure. 489 00:27:10,942 --> 00:27:12,232 So what do you do in that case? 490 00:27:12,697 --> 00:27:17,047 Well, that's actually a continuity resilience issue because if you're 491 00:27:17,047 --> 00:27:21,217 thinking about the person who needs to do their job, they gotta get online. 492 00:27:21,637 --> 00:27:25,717 Identity is a mission critical, if not one of the most important mission 493 00:27:25,722 --> 00:27:29,887 critical things, because if identity and access management isn't in place, 494 00:27:30,187 --> 00:27:32,197 you need to fail closed, right? 495 00:27:32,197 --> 00:27:35,137 Can't let people in, otherwise it'd be chaos. 496 00:27:35,527 --> 00:27:40,267 So what you need to think about with multiple identity providers is. 497 00:27:40,612 --> 00:27:47,092 Hey, what do we do in the event that our primary identity provider isn't available? 498 00:27:47,272 --> 00:27:50,032 How do we substitute that with a backup? 499 00:27:50,092 --> 00:27:53,482 And so that could be, for instance, uh, I don't have my phone with 500 00:27:53,482 --> 00:27:55,462 me, but I've got my key fob. 501 00:27:55,522 --> 00:28:00,412 And so if I'm presented with an option to say, Hey, how do you wanna authenticate? 502 00:28:00,832 --> 00:28:03,292 We don't use passwords here 'cause they're not secure. 503 00:28:03,562 --> 00:28:06,772 We can give you a choice of your primary, is your phone. 504 00:28:07,102 --> 00:28:11,332 And if you don't have your phone, your secondary could be this, you 505 00:28:11,332 --> 00:28:14,812 know, one of the Fido keys that you plug into your, your computer. 506 00:28:15,202 --> 00:28:19,312 So these are examples of problems that people have. 507 00:28:19,342 --> 00:28:22,822 Resiliency and identity are actually very related. 508 00:28:22,822 --> 00:28:27,652 So, uh, we see a lot of, a lot of that, um, as, as problems. 509 00:28:27,982 --> 00:28:31,987 And I guess the last thing would be, Say you've got a great technology like 510 00:28:31,987 --> 00:28:35,137 Passwordless and you wanna roll it out to all your applications and you've got 511 00:28:35,137 --> 00:28:37,297 hundreds of applications to do it to. 512 00:28:37,657 --> 00:28:42,067 Well, you wouldn't be able to do it very quickly if you had to rewrite 513 00:28:42,067 --> 00:28:45,367 each of the applications to talk with this authentication mechanism. 514 00:28:45,757 --> 00:28:49,687 So with an abstraction layer, you don't change the apps, you just 515 00:28:49,687 --> 00:28:53,137 plug the authentication system into the fabric and everything 516 00:28:53,142 --> 00:28:54,817 that's talking to the fabric and. 517 00:28:55,252 --> 00:28:59,242 Connect with that without any coding or any, uh, modification. 518 00:28:59,242 --> 00:29:04,312 So, uh, a lot of problems we call 'em recipes or use cases and, um, but yeah, 519 00:29:04,317 --> 00:29:06,742 there's, there's a whole lot of different things that people are doing today. 520 00:29:06,742 --> 00:29:06,802 I. 521 00:29:07,797 --> 00:29:10,827 W. Curtis Preston: So, um, another question. 522 00:29:10,947 --> 00:29:13,917 Um, so how does this work then? 523 00:29:14,577 --> 00:29:16,527 So I've got, let's say, Okta. 524 00:29:17,377 --> 00:29:17,917 Right. 525 00:29:18,277 --> 00:29:25,087 And, and then you on top of Okta, and I want m f a, um, 526 00:29:25,147 --> 00:29:26,257 so I'm interacting with you. 527 00:29:26,257 --> 00:29:28,837 I'm not interacting directly with Okta at this point, right? 528 00:29:28,897 --> 00:29:30,757 I'm interacting with your abstraction layer. 529 00:29:31,237 --> 00:29:37,777 So I want M F A and, and Okta is configured for M F a or 530 00:29:37,777 --> 00:29:39,577 how, how, how does that work? 531 00:29:39,577 --> 00:29:39,847 Right? 532 00:29:39,847 --> 00:29:42,277 Because we're not, we're gonna, we're not gonna do two MFAs. 533 00:29:42,277 --> 00:29:43,717 So how, how do you make that happening? 534 00:29:44,732 --> 00:29:48,117 Eric Olden: Yeah, so when you think about the, the architecture 535 00:29:48,147 --> 00:29:53,487 that you need in multi-cloud, it's very different than on-prem. 536 00:29:53,487 --> 00:29:54,967 Very different than SaaS because. 537 00:29:55,957 --> 00:30:01,057 Uh, you need to be able to deploy this identity anywhere, on any cloud, on 538 00:30:01,057 --> 00:30:03,337 premises and in, you know, public clouds. 539 00:30:03,847 --> 00:30:08,617 And the way that we do it at Strata is through this distributed architecture. 540 00:30:08,647 --> 00:30:13,207 We think about it as an air gap, and we have a component of software called, 541 00:30:13,267 --> 00:30:15,727 uh, coincidentally an orchestrator. 542 00:30:16,087 --> 00:30:19,687 And this orchestrator is, acts like a server of sorts. 543 00:30:20,137 --> 00:30:25,537 Can think of it as a proxy, um, but it does more than just proxying and we built 544 00:30:25,537 --> 00:30:28,177 it from the ground up to work in this way. 545 00:30:28,477 --> 00:30:34,147 So think about this orchestrator as a enforcement point, and it is 546 00:30:34,152 --> 00:30:39,247 programmed with policy so it knows, for instance, in your example, Curtis, 547 00:30:39,892 --> 00:30:43,732 What kind of authentication am I going to use for this application? 548 00:30:43,732 --> 00:30:49,073 Is it gonna be Okta with a password or is it gonna be Okta's multifactor 549 00:30:49,132 --> 00:30:53,092 authentication or somebody else's multifactor authentication? 550 00:30:53,512 --> 00:30:58,402 So at Runtime, when that user, through their browser puts in the U R L to get 551 00:30:58,402 --> 00:31:03,802 to that application, that traffic is intercepted through the orchestrator. 552 00:31:03,892 --> 00:31:04,942 So it's transparent. 553 00:31:04,942 --> 00:31:07,222 People don't know about Stratus software. 554 00:31:07,227 --> 00:31:08,452 It's all under the covers. 555 00:31:08,797 --> 00:31:09,817 Behind the scenes. 556 00:31:09,847 --> 00:31:14,677 And so then that orchestrator sees this session coming in and says, 557 00:31:14,977 --> 00:31:19,327 ah, based on where you want to go, I need to enforce this policy. 558 00:31:19,357 --> 00:31:23,947 I'm going to direct in real time, I'm gonna direct you over to this 559 00:31:23,947 --> 00:31:25,987 multifactor authentication system. 560 00:31:26,557 --> 00:31:30,637 You're gonna then be prompted to do the face scan or something else, 561 00:31:30,667 --> 00:31:34,087 and then if that's successful, then the orchestrator says, okay, what's 562 00:31:34,087 --> 00:31:35,617 the next step I'm supposed to do? 563 00:31:36,157 --> 00:31:39,037 Um, you can program it to do a lot of different things, right? 564 00:31:39,037 --> 00:31:41,947 But to keep it simple, uh, maybe that's all you wanted to 565 00:31:41,947 --> 00:31:43,507 do is just the authentication. 566 00:31:43,837 --> 00:31:48,007 And then at that point, the orchestrator would say, you have a valid multifactor 567 00:31:48,007 --> 00:31:52,837 authentication session, so I'm going to now allow you into the application. 568 00:31:53,317 --> 00:31:55,837 And, um, that's kind of how it works. 569 00:31:56,047 --> 00:31:59,317 And you can distribute these orchestrators wherever you need to. 570 00:31:59,917 --> 00:32:02,527 W. Curtis Preston: so if I understand that correctly, what you're 571 00:32:02,587 --> 00:32:09,007 orchestrating is you're orchestrating me actually talking to Okta, right? 572 00:32:09,012 --> 00:32:09,637 So I'm still. 573 00:32:10,297 --> 00:32:16,237 I'm still, you know, like, um, so in the, I don't know how to put it. 574 00:32:16,417 --> 00:32:19,507 Like you said, you're invisible, right? 575 00:32:19,837 --> 00:32:24,457 And I'm still interacting and in this example, I'm still interacting with Okta. 576 00:32:24,457 --> 00:32:28,177 I'm doing M F A with Okta, password, with Okta, whatever it is, you know, or both. 577 00:32:28,717 --> 00:32:32,497 Uh, but you are sort of pointing that and making that happen. 578 00:32:32,827 --> 00:32:35,977 I'm not, 'cause I, I think a minute ago I had the idea where 579 00:32:36,247 --> 00:32:38,257 I was interacting with, with you. 580 00:32:38,257 --> 00:32:38,317 I. 581 00:32:38,917 --> 00:32:41,707 Your being My username and password or whatever it is 582 00:32:41,707 --> 00:32:43,447 that I'm using and my M F A. 583 00:32:43,627 --> 00:32:46,657 And then you were then passing that on to Okta. 584 00:32:47,437 --> 00:32:50,677 That doesn't sound like that was a correct understanding. 585 00:32:51,352 --> 00:32:54,862 Eric Olden: Y Yeah, I, I think the way to to think about it would be, 586 00:32:54,952 --> 00:33:02,032 um, Like in, uh, in the music, the orchestrator, the, the conductor of an 587 00:33:02,032 --> 00:33:10,282 orchestrator orchestra is gonna tell the percussion, do this, the horns do that. 588 00:33:10,287 --> 00:33:12,202 And, uh, I don't know music that well. 589 00:33:12,207 --> 00:33:12,923 So let's stick with those two. 590 00:33:13,372 --> 00:33:14,992 Go here, go there, go here, go there. 591 00:33:15,322 --> 00:33:20,782 And you know that conductor is not the one playing the music, that is the conductor 592 00:33:20,782 --> 00:33:22,642 saying how the music needs to be played. 593 00:33:23,002 --> 00:33:27,922 The instruments are the ones that generate the sound, and that conductor is simply 594 00:33:27,922 --> 00:33:30,532 saying, go here, then here, then here. 595 00:33:30,802 --> 00:33:32,092 That's the way to think about it. 596 00:33:32,122 --> 00:33:37,282 It's, uh, really directing that user session in, uh, runtime. 597 00:33:37,282 --> 00:33:43,912 So it is, um, it requires these IDPs, the identity providers. 598 00:33:44,302 --> 00:33:47,752 It doesn't provide the identity itself. 599 00:33:47,782 --> 00:33:50,062 It's the conductor, not the instrument. 600 00:33:51,757 --> 00:33:55,477 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And since you now have visibility about identity 601 00:33:55,477 --> 00:33:58,117 across the entire environment, do. 602 00:33:59,062 --> 00:34:04,492 Can you use this to figure out, um, who has access to what 603 00:34:04,497 --> 00:34:07,522 resources, if there is a breach? 604 00:34:07,522 --> 00:34:08,932 How did people get in? 605 00:34:08,932 --> 00:34:11,962 Like, I'm sure that you can now do all sorts of interesting 606 00:34:11,962 --> 00:34:16,402 forensic cases based on being that single abstraction layer, right? 607 00:34:18,297 --> 00:34:19,767 Eric Olden: Yeah, you're absolutely right. 608 00:34:19,767 --> 00:34:25,737 And, uh, you bring up a, a really important, uh, area of orchestration. 609 00:34:25,737 --> 00:34:29,457 So what we've been talking about today up until now, has been 610 00:34:29,457 --> 00:34:31,557 about the runtime orchestration. 611 00:34:31,557 --> 00:34:33,477 So what happens when the users. 612 00:34:33,772 --> 00:34:34,822 Clicking on a link. 613 00:34:35,002 --> 00:34:38,302 And there's another part of orchestration that has to do with 614 00:34:38,302 --> 00:34:43,612 the policies or the rules that people set up to govern what needs to happen 615 00:34:43,612 --> 00:34:45,382 in order to access an application. 616 00:34:45,922 --> 00:34:53,092 And similar to the I D P fragmentation, the policies that are in these identity 617 00:34:53,092 --> 00:34:58,072 providers, they're all built in different, uh, languages and syntax as well. 618 00:34:58,102 --> 00:35:02,102 And so, um, if you want to have your policy consistent, 619 00:35:02,752 --> 00:35:04,942 Across three different clouds. 620 00:35:05,242 --> 00:35:09,652 You would need to know how to program that one policy in three different 621 00:35:09,652 --> 00:35:14,302 APIs, three different cloud platforms, and three different data models. 622 00:35:14,302 --> 00:35:18,112 It gets very confusing because you're gonna be dealing with 623 00:35:18,117 --> 00:35:21,172 very quickly hundreds, if not thousands of these policies. 624 00:35:21,202 --> 00:35:23,332 'cause they, you know, just the nature of it. 625 00:35:23,392 --> 00:35:26,992 You have more of the more applications, more data you have, the more of these 626 00:35:26,992 --> 00:35:28,432 policies you need to think about. 627 00:35:28,912 --> 00:35:30,802 So, What do you do? 628 00:35:30,832 --> 00:35:34,372 Wouldn't it be nice if there was a universal language that would 629 00:35:34,372 --> 00:35:39,352 define policy that would work and be translatable to your Babelfish example? 630 00:35:39,382 --> 00:35:44,242 What if we had Babelfish for policy and, uh, we helped at Strata, 631 00:35:44,242 --> 00:35:46,192 we helped create a new standard. 632 00:35:46,582 --> 00:35:52,792 Uh, called I D Q L stands for Identity Query Language and we built a reference 633 00:35:52,792 --> 00:35:57,562 implementation in open source at the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, 634 00:35:57,562 --> 00:36:02,482 the C N C F, which is the organization where Kubernetes and some of these 635 00:36:02,482 --> 00:36:04,852 other cloud native technologies lives. 636 00:36:05,362 --> 00:36:10,372 And what I D Q L will do is policy orchestration. 637 00:36:10,372 --> 00:36:16,192 So imagine you've got two clouds, Azure and a w s. 638 00:36:16,522 --> 00:36:20,422 And let's say for instance, you want to get your policies from 639 00:36:20,422 --> 00:36:23,302 Azure to be the same in a W Ss. 640 00:36:23,662 --> 00:36:30,112 Well, you can take this tool called hexa, it's free, point it at the A w Ss and 641 00:36:30,117 --> 00:36:32,782 it'll discover policies that are in there. 642 00:36:32,812 --> 00:36:34,792 'cause it's programmed to know the APIs. 643 00:36:35,122 --> 00:36:40,012 It'll pull out your policies and say, okay, I've got 3000 of 'em and this 644 00:36:40,012 --> 00:36:41,902 is what they are structured to do. 645 00:36:42,262 --> 00:36:45,472 Translates 'em from the imperative. 646 00:36:45,547 --> 00:36:50,587 A proprietary structure that they live in a W Ss and turns 647 00:36:50,587 --> 00:36:56,017 it into a generic, uh, middle declarative language called I D Q L. 648 00:36:56,077 --> 00:37:00,127 And it's a declarative representation, human readable, which is really handy 649 00:37:00,367 --> 00:37:02,527 for a lot of auditing use cases. 650 00:37:02,917 --> 00:37:05,797 You say, okay, great, well what am I gonna do with this generic thing? 651 00:37:05,797 --> 00:37:06,337 Because I wanna. 652 00:37:07,072 --> 00:37:09,502 Push it into, um, Azure. 653 00:37:09,802 --> 00:37:14,392 And so HEXA can then say, okay, you want to translate it from generic to specific? 654 00:37:14,392 --> 00:37:15,262 No problem. 655 00:37:15,322 --> 00:37:16,342 I got that. 656 00:37:16,552 --> 00:37:19,882 And you just run that orchestration in the other direction. 657 00:37:20,272 --> 00:37:24,202 And what you end up with at, at the end is, uh, two things. 658 00:37:24,322 --> 00:37:29,002 One is consistent policy in two places and a human readable, 659 00:37:29,092 --> 00:37:34,162 easy to audit, way to categorize and inventory all your policies. 660 00:37:34,522 --> 00:37:37,102 In this open free I D Q L standard. 661 00:37:38,377 --> 00:37:38,587 Prasanna Malaiyandi: That's 662 00:37:38,612 --> 00:37:39,152 W. Curtis Preston: like that. 663 00:37:39,487 --> 00:37:39,727 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 664 00:37:39,812 --> 00:37:40,172 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 665 00:37:40,682 --> 00:37:47,407 Uh, so let me give you another scenario and you tell me if you, uh, I mean, 666 00:37:47,407 --> 00:37:50,857 this is what happens, Eric, when you create a new product category. 667 00:37:51,577 --> 00:37:57,397 So what about, uh, the scenario of, it's sort of two things, which there 668 00:37:57,402 --> 00:38:00,577 could be one solution or you could just go, no, that's not what we do. 669 00:38:01,237 --> 00:38:07,747 So I currently use Okta and I want to use, what's the, the main Okta competitor. 670 00:38:08,857 --> 00:38:09,517 What's the what? 671 00:38:09,622 --> 00:38:12,142 Eric Olden: Microsoft Azure Active Directory is pretty 672 00:38:12,367 --> 00:38:14,227 W. Curtis Preston: I was thinking of like some other third party 673 00:38:14,227 --> 00:38:15,187 company, but it doesn't matter. 674 00:38:15,547 --> 00:38:21,517 I wanna switch from Okta to Azure, um, or I wanna switch from Azure to Okta or 675 00:38:21,607 --> 00:38:23,647 the scenario that you laid out earlier. 676 00:38:23,827 --> 00:38:28,207 Uh, we just acquired a company and one of us is Azure and one of us is Okta 677 00:38:28,537 --> 00:38:30,247 and we want to go to one of those. 678 00:38:30,397 --> 00:38:30,907 Right. 679 00:38:31,507 --> 00:38:35,707 Uh, how, how do you, or do you help with that transition? 680 00:38:37,302 --> 00:38:41,172 Eric Olden: Yeah, a very common use case is, uh, modernization. 681 00:38:41,352 --> 00:38:46,062 So yes, you can go from two modern ones like Okta and Azure 682 00:38:46,067 --> 00:38:48,552 AD are both cutting edge, modern. 683 00:38:49,092 --> 00:38:53,712 Um, but often when you look at the enterprise, they've got stuff that's 684 00:38:53,712 --> 00:38:58,662 been running for like 5, 10, 25 years and they're saying, well, geez, this 685 00:38:58,662 --> 00:39:02,142 thing was built years and decades before. 686 00:39:02,142 --> 00:39:02,802 Things like. 687 00:39:03,157 --> 00:39:06,187 Authentication or passwordless and all that came out. 688 00:39:06,487 --> 00:39:08,857 So how do we modernize it? 689 00:39:08,857 --> 00:39:12,937 How do we get the applications that are used to working on prem 690 00:39:12,937 --> 00:39:14,677 and going to a legacy system? 691 00:39:15,007 --> 00:39:17,887 How do we make that work with the new cloud stuff? 692 00:39:17,947 --> 00:39:23,047 And so that modernization recipe, Or that use case, uh, the way that you 693 00:39:23,047 --> 00:39:28,687 do that is you, uh, really quickly you would connect your two legacy 694 00:39:28,747 --> 00:39:33,037 or your legacy i d P into the fabric and your cloud one into the fabric. 695 00:39:33,487 --> 00:39:35,317 And those don't require code. 696 00:39:35,317 --> 00:39:36,547 It's just kind of plug and play. 697 00:39:36,877 --> 00:39:38,887 So now you've got two IDPs. 698 00:39:39,187 --> 00:39:43,357 Then you tell the orchestrator this is the application today, 699 00:39:43,357 --> 00:39:45,817 it's going to, um, the old system. 700 00:39:46,207 --> 00:39:50,347 And we want to switch that to talk to the new system. 701 00:39:50,707 --> 00:39:54,937 Then you configure that orchestrator and say, look, when a user logs in, 702 00:39:55,207 --> 00:39:57,727 direct them to the cloud system. 703 00:39:58,057 --> 00:40:02,257 And if that cloud system is using a different protocol, then the 704 00:40:02,257 --> 00:40:06,637 old system, the orchestrator, for instance, let's say that the new 705 00:40:06,637 --> 00:40:09,427 system uses SAML or federated. 706 00:40:10,252 --> 00:40:13,942 Single sign on the security assertion markup language and the 707 00:40:13,942 --> 00:40:16,282 old one is using old school cookies. 708 00:40:16,822 --> 00:40:22,942 Well, the orchestrator would say, okay, I need to talk to Azure AD 709 00:40:23,632 --> 00:40:30,172 using saml and I'm gonna do that flow the, the kind of exchange of 710 00:40:30,172 --> 00:40:32,272 the identity information with Azure. 711 00:40:32,602 --> 00:40:38,077 And then when I come back and that user is authenticated, I will, uh, 712 00:40:38,137 --> 00:40:42,667 create a session to that application that looks just like that old 713 00:40:42,667 --> 00:40:44,617 school, one that uses cookies. 714 00:40:45,067 --> 00:40:49,237 And you can basically, I don't wanna say trick 'cause you know, it's not like 715 00:40:49,267 --> 00:40:53,947 nefarious or anything like that, but the facade aspect of the abstraction layer. 716 00:40:53,992 --> 00:40:58,972 It always presents what the application's already expecting in this example, 717 00:40:59,122 --> 00:41:00,952 a cookie or something like that. 718 00:41:01,222 --> 00:41:05,062 And so when the user comes through, they don't see any of that. 719 00:41:05,122 --> 00:41:08,722 They just go to the website and it's like, Hey, I am, uh, going into the 720 00:41:08,722 --> 00:41:14,362 same maybe sign-on portal, but under the covers I actually got authenticated 721 00:41:14,362 --> 00:41:16,312 against the new thing, not the old thing. 722 00:41:16,642 --> 00:41:19,792 And everything works and it's seamless. 723 00:41:20,092 --> 00:41:24,172 W. Curtis Preston: And are you, are you moving or copying like 724 00:41:24,832 --> 00:41:26,962 identities from one to the other? 725 00:41:27,967 --> 00:41:29,767 Eric Olden: Um, generally, no. 726 00:41:29,872 --> 00:41:30,032 W. Curtis Preston: customer? 727 00:41:30,487 --> 00:41:32,677 Eric Olden: Yeah, it, it's generally up to the customer. 728 00:41:32,682 --> 00:41:38,047 You can, but generally we find people have these systems already set up. 729 00:41:38,542 --> 00:41:43,492 That said, there's a use case that a lot of people like about, uh, 730 00:41:43,522 --> 00:41:46,492 just in time or j i t provision. 731 00:41:47,062 --> 00:41:51,742 So let's say going into that modernization thing, we've got a million accounts 732 00:41:51,802 --> 00:41:57,022 on-prem and Oracle system, and we want to move all of those accounts 733 00:41:57,082 --> 00:42:02,362 into the cloud system and what the orchestrator can do when the user 734 00:42:02,362 --> 00:42:05,467 comes in, It can verify that user. 735 00:42:05,497 --> 00:42:08,437 Maybe it's most likely an old system is gonna be a password. 736 00:42:08,737 --> 00:42:13,507 It'll verify that user's password and user ID against Oracle. 737 00:42:13,837 --> 00:42:17,497 If that's successful, then that orchestrator will say, ah, I've been 738 00:42:17,497 --> 00:42:22,957 programmed to go create a new account for you, and I'm gonna talk to the Azure ad. 739 00:42:23,197 --> 00:42:26,557 For instance, I'm gonna create a new account for Eric. 740 00:42:26,617 --> 00:42:28,687 I know the user id 'cause I just. 741 00:42:29,287 --> 00:42:34,957 Verified it, and I'm gonna say this user ID is, um, now need, we created 742 00:42:34,957 --> 00:42:40,147 an account in the cloud and you can even, you know, securely get that 743 00:42:40,152 --> 00:42:42,787 password into that, uh, target system. 744 00:42:43,267 --> 00:42:48,607 And so then the next time the user comes in, The orchestrator can flag 745 00:42:48,607 --> 00:42:53,077 that user and say, wait a minute, you've already been migrated, so I'm 746 00:42:53,077 --> 00:42:55,357 not gonna go through that same steps. 747 00:42:55,357 --> 00:42:58,537 I'm gonna just push point you over to the cloud system. 748 00:42:58,957 --> 00:43:02,947 And now that user, the same username and password are 749 00:43:02,947 --> 00:43:05,317 gonna work in the cloud system. 750 00:43:06,007 --> 00:43:10,117 And the nice thing about just in time is that you don't have this big bang. 751 00:43:10,327 --> 00:43:13,177 And what happens is it's a lot more gradual. 752 00:43:13,522 --> 00:43:16,432 And so you don't have those crazy weekends where you're like, oh, 753 00:43:16,462 --> 00:43:18,412 we're gonna do a hard switchover. 754 00:43:18,682 --> 00:43:19,642 It's just let it run. 755 00:43:19,642 --> 00:43:23,812 For typically 90 days, you'll get majority of your users over there. 756 00:43:23,932 --> 00:43:28,462 And then for the ones that haven't moved, you can, you can batch 'em and get them 757 00:43:28,462 --> 00:43:33,502 over there and have them go through like a pa uh, account verification so 758 00:43:33,502 --> 00:43:36,622 you don't have dormant account risk or you minimize it, I should say. 759 00:43:36,727 --> 00:43:37,017 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 760 00:43:37,372 --> 00:43:40,312 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, based on your answer, I, I think your answer 761 00:43:40,312 --> 00:43:41,782 to my question is actually yes. 762 00:43:41,782 --> 00:43:43,372 You just don't do them in mass. 763 00:43:43,372 --> 00:43:47,692 You do the, you, you bring the, the user over when they 764 00:43:47,782 --> 00:43:49,162 authenticate with the system, 765 00:43:49,642 --> 00:43:50,242 Eric Olden: That's right. 766 00:43:50,302 --> 00:43:51,262 W. Curtis Preston: is what, what I heard you say. 767 00:43:51,292 --> 00:43:51,622 Okay. 768 00:43:51,742 --> 00:43:54,322 Eric Olden: It's optional is is what I was trying to say. 769 00:43:54,322 --> 00:43:57,232 You don't have to, but if you want to, this is the way we would recommend it. 770 00:43:57,787 --> 00:43:58,327 W. Curtis Preston: Gotcha. 771 00:43:58,327 --> 00:44:01,687 Well, we're, we're kind of running short on time today, Eric. 772 00:44:01,687 --> 00:44:05,737 Is there anything that you didn't get to talk about that you'd like to talk 773 00:44:05,737 --> 00:44:07,117 about in our last few minutes together? 774 00:44:07,117 --> 00:44:07,147 I. 775 00:44:07,687 --> 00:44:10,087 Eric Olden: Uh, well, you know, this has been a great conversation. 776 00:44:10,087 --> 00:44:14,107 I think, you know, if, if this is interesting to the audience, um, 777 00:44:14,112 --> 00:44:19,357 they could find out more about our, uh, platform@strata.io. 778 00:44:20,122 --> 00:44:22,342 And, um, we also have a fun thing. 779 00:44:22,342 --> 00:44:25,972 We like to, we call it the identity orchestration challenge, 780 00:44:25,972 --> 00:44:27,292 the use case challenge. 781 00:44:27,292 --> 00:44:34,192 So, um, check out our website at strata.io/podcast and if you throw a 782 00:44:34,192 --> 00:44:38,632 use case to us, just find the hardest one that you think we couldn't solve 783 00:44:38,932 --> 00:44:41,182 and, um, we'd love to demo it for you. 784 00:44:41,182 --> 00:44:46,462 Here's how it works, and I'll give you a pair of the Apple Air Pod 785 00:44:46,467 --> 00:44:48,892 Pro, the ones that go in the ear. 786 00:44:49,402 --> 00:44:53,512 I don't know the names exactly, but, uh, AirPod Pro I think is what it's called 787 00:44:53,562 --> 00:44:54,162 W. Curtis Preston: the ones, yeah. 788 00:44:54,442 --> 00:44:55,012 Eric Olden: the good ones. 789 00:44:55,432 --> 00:44:58,492 And, um, yeah, so just check it out. 790 00:44:58,492 --> 00:45:03,232 We'll show you how it works and we'd love to, uh, to have a conversation with you 791 00:45:03,907 --> 00:45:07,147 W. Curtis Preston: So, uh, I, I, does anybody still use n i s? 792 00:45:07,177 --> 00:45:09,907 You remember n i s the na? 793 00:45:10,312 --> 00:45:11,902 Eric Olden: naming information service. 794 00:45:12,277 --> 00:45:12,877 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 795 00:45:12,907 --> 00:45:14,287 Does anybody still use that? 796 00:45:15,202 --> 00:45:19,132 Eric Olden: yeah, I bet you know, in the big enterprise's, NetWare, 797 00:45:19,162 --> 00:45:20,812 that's still running around, I'm sure. 798 00:45:21,037 --> 00:45:21,577 W. Curtis Preston: Lord. 799 00:45:22,387 --> 00:45:25,537 just, that was, that was what we used back in the, back in the day 800 00:45:25,567 --> 00:45:30,217 was n i s even that, that's even before your time Prasanna, I 801 00:45:30,367 --> 00:45:30,907 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It is. 802 00:45:30,967 --> 00:45:31,387 Yep. 803 00:45:31,657 --> 00:45:32,107 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 804 00:45:32,257 --> 00:45:35,827 Well, thanks, thanks Prasanna for, uh, hanging out. 805 00:45:35,827 --> 00:45:36,637 Good questions again, 806 00:45:37,087 --> 00:45:37,927 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, I try. 807 00:45:37,927 --> 00:45:38,287 I try. 808 00:45:38,287 --> 00:45:41,077 And Eric, it's nice to meet you and Curtis, I do want to 809 00:45:41,077 --> 00:45:43,547 hear about the Barbenheimer, 810 00:45:43,867 --> 00:45:44,687 W. Curtis Preston: Barbenheimer. 811 00:45:45,247 --> 00:45:45,907 Absolutely. 812 00:45:46,057 --> 00:45:47,947 Well, you know me, you'll hear about it. 813 00:45:48,337 --> 00:45:48,777 Prasanna Malaiyandi: will hear about it. 814 00:45:49,282 --> 00:45:51,502 W. Curtis Preston: And, um, and thanks Eric for coming on 815 00:45:52,222 --> 00:45:52,852 Eric Olden: Thanks so much. 816 00:45:52,852 --> 00:45:53,632 Had a great time. 817 00:45:53,632 --> 00:45:54,142 Appreciate it. 818 00:45:54,892 --> 00:45:56,542 W. Curtis Preston: and, uh, thanks again to our listeners. 819 00:45:56,542 --> 00:45:59,812 We'd be nothing without you, and remember to subscribe so 820 00:45:59,817 --> 00:46:01,668 that you can restore it all. 821 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,610 There was a file, but I deleted it. 822 00:46:10,850 --> 00:46:11,690 Too bad. 823 00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:14,450 Your backup system isn't worth speed. 824 00:46:17,810 --> 00:46:18,950 Needed your backup. 825 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:20,390 You had. 826 00:46:21,490 --> 00:46:23,440 To fix and said, it's all Jack. 827 00:46:24,580 --> 00:46:28,360 See how right on Facebook about you? 828 00:46:29,110 --> 00:46:32,410 Don't underestimate the things that I'll do. 829 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,560 There was a file, but I deleted it to. 830 00:46:40,045 --> 00:46:41,515 System isn't worth 831 00:46:48,115 --> 00:46:52,085 when it keeps thinking that you restore it. 832 00:47:26,375 --> 00:47:27,875 It didn't work at all. 833 00:47:28,605 --> 00:47:31,795 Think of you up. 834 00:47:34,375 --> 00:47:36,275 It would work if it wasn't. 835 00:48:17,495 --> 00:48:18,275 And rescue. 836 00:48:34,115 --> 00:48:39,305 Yourself into every backup run, hoping not just for once. 837 00:48:39,305 --> 00:48:41,015 It'll be completely done. 838 00:48:41,605 --> 00:48:44,475 Maybe Sunday it'll. 839 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:54,740 You could, 840 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,100 you could restore it 841 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:12,940 and rescue.