I remember back at around 2016 17 time frame when Nat Ford, who at the time

was chair of APTA, the American Public Transportation Association, he was also,

as he is today, CEO of Jacksonville Transit Authority, kind of led our

industry To change the definition of what public transit agencies were about

and the way I interpreted what he told to us because I was CEO of the MTA in

Baltimore at the time and was on the board of APTA, was he said we need

to change the way we view ourselves as no longer do we have a monopoly on

provision of transit services in a city.

Now we are the aggregators of mobility services in a city.

And little by little, transit agencies across the country adopted that approach

until today nearly everyone has moved in that direction and now see themselves as,

yes, we're providing bus and fixed route transit and rail, but we're also embracing

TNCs and taxi cab companies and others to help us provide more mobility in a city.

I'm Paul Comfort and this is Transit Unplugged, the world's leading public

transportation executive podcast.

On today's episode, we're going to dive into that even more and talk about

the use of TNCs like Uber, Lyft, and others like UseRV and SilverRide and

taxicab companies and others in the use of expanding public transportation,

expanding the reach of public transit, serving new rider segments, enhancing

equitable transportation and ensuring continuity during disruptions.

Today's episode is the first ever in seven years that is sponsored by someone in

addition to Modaxo, our parent company.

This is the This episode, is sponsored by Uber Transit, and they recently published

a study, called Transit Horizons 2.

0, the Mobility Evolution, and this podcast is going to be talking to

three public transit agencies who are using TNCs to expand the reach

of their public transit service and their mobility service in the city.

Robert Betts is the Director of Operations and Service Development

with Marin Transit in Marin County.

California, in the San Francisco Bay Area.

He has over 20 years of experience in the transit industry and, he joined, Marin

Transit 14 years ago after starting his career in transportation consulting.

He'll join us, as does Carlos Cruz-Casas.

Carlos is the Chief Innovation Officer at Miami Dade in Florida, County Department

of Transportation and Public Works.

His primary focus is to introduce mobility innovation and plan for

a fully integrated transit system.

And we also have with us Bonnie Epstein.

Bonnie works at PSTA, Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority.

She started there in 2015 in the planning department and 2020 she became

Director of Mobility Services and they manage the paratransit program, the

transportation disadvantage program, and their mobility on demand programs.

And over the last three years, ridership on their mobility on

demand program has increased.

has expanded and now two thirds of all paratransit trips are taken on demand,

saving PSTA over $20,000 each month.

This is an amazing program, a great look in depth into what's happening in

using third party contractors, TNCs, in expanding the reach of public mobility,

all on this episode of Transit Unplugged.

Now, let's join the conversation with these three great transit leaders.

Great to have with us today some amazing guests who are going to be talking about,

really one of the hottest trends happening in the last few years overall, not just

here in America, but over the whole world.

And that is the role of third party contractors, TNCs like Uber and Lyft

and, other companies who are interested in helping public transit agencies

provide mobility, to passengers.

and our guest with us today, excited to have with us is, one

of them is a good friend of mine, actually, Carlos Cruz-Casas,

who is with us from Miami Dade.

Carlos, welcome, my friend.

Yeah, good morning, morning.

How are you guys?

also Bonnie Epstein from one of the pioneering agencies in America when

it comes to using TNCs like Uber.

Bonnie, thanks for being with us today.

Oh, thank you so much.

I'm so excited to be here and talk about, transit with all of you.

And then, Robert Betts from Marin Transit.

Robert, thanks for being with us today, my friend.

Thanks for having me, Paul.

Where is Marin, Robert?

Marin County is on the north end of the Golden Gate Bridge in the San

Francisco Bay Area, so we're right across the Bay from San Francisco.

So you're one of those 26 agencies that have public transportation around

the, around the, the, the Bay Area?

Correct.

One of many.

Yeah.

So tell me some about your on demand transportation services

there and how it works.

Yeah, so our current program, which, which we call Catch A Ride, similar to

a lot of voucher based subsidy models that many transit agencies have, we

currently work with Uber, Lyft, local taxi providers to offer discounted

rides for our eligible residents.

I think what makes it a little bit unique is we, we really focus the program on

older adults and those with disabilities, specifically here in Marin County.

So Catch A Ride, how long has that program been like a program?

Catch A Ride started actually back in 2010, but it's gone

through many different iterations.

it started as, as a traditional voucher based program just

with the taxi operators.

We actually incorporated a microtransit element into that program in 2018.

and then, most recently, actually during the pandemic, we expanded that

program to include our TNC partners.

Okay, that's great.

And Bonnie, tell us about your program there, how it got started in Pinellas

County, Suncoast Transit, in, near the Tampa Bay Clearwater area, south

of Tampa Bay, where you're at there.

Tell us about your program some.

Yeah, so our TD Late Shift program, uh, we started that in August of 2016,

shortly after we started our first last mile pilot program, Direct Connect.

And really, the TD Late Shift program helps low income riders get to or

from work overnight between 10 p.

m.

and 6 a.

m.

when our buses aren't running.

We know that many of our riders use the bus.

we really wanted to make sure that riders who use the bus our service

and have a second or third shift job could still rely on PSTA.

To join our program, riders need to qualify for our Transportation

Disadvantaged Program and then just show proof of a job between 10 p.

m.

and 6 a.

m.

Once approved, the riders can take up to 25 trips per month on the

provider of their choice, Uber, Lyft, local taxi or local wheelchair, and

only pay $20 for the monthly bus pass and the late shift service.

And how's that paid for, Bonnie?

So right now, we've been using, state funding for that service.

A grant, that we started getting in 2016, through the, Commission

for Transportation Disadvantage.

It's a Florida state program, as, the, the main.

We're paying for the service.

Yeah, One more question, too.

Take us back to, if you don't mind, I remember seeing, I don't know how long

ago it was, maybe 10 years ago, I don't know, when you guys, you were like the

first ones in the country, right, Brett?

He hired Uber to help out, like, last mile or first mile.

Tell us about that, because that was, at the time, groundbreaking, and now

pretty much everybody's doing it.

Yeah, you know, both the Late Shift program and our Direct Connect

program that I mentioned before, were one of the first, partnerships

between a transit agency and Uber.

And, you know, really back then, we were trying to figure things

out as we went, you know, between data sharing, contracting, how

we were going to do payments.

it was really just We'll do our best and figure it out, it's been really exciting

to see how much, not just our partnerships and programs with Uber have grown, but

now there's a whole division at Uber, contract bases, a whole set way of doing

things, and, you know, transit systems now can just you know, learn from what

we've done and, you know, there's, I don't know, 50, 60 agencies now working with

TNCs, that, you know, just started from back in 2016, our one little partnership.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I wanted to call out Brad Miller, because he really

was a pioneer and stepped out when other folks hadn't done this.

And, uh, He saw the value of the service.

It was providing the customers and also the economy and

efficiency, Carlos, to the agency.

Do you all see that in Miami as well?

Tell us about your program.

Certainly.

Certainly.

Paul and Sino, I feel that we are in our comfort zone here, right?

We'll get able to.

Talked to my own friends, but I remember 2015, when we reached

out to a PSTA about their program and how we can learn about it.

That was a time that we're actually looking into

introducing on demand transit.

And this is a different flavor of what kind of goes through, but, great

programs have led to where we are today.

So, we have done several partnership with, uh, with TNCs, Ubers and

Lyft and taxis, as you can imagine.

but we have, right now one that is, has been very close and near to my heart

because is, is to support what all the agencies are looking to do right

now is to change our bus networks to actually meet the demands of the state.

So last November, we changed our entire bus network.

We did what everyone thought impossible, right?

Miami Dade County, a large environment, over 900 buses, 99

bus routes, changing overnight.

We were able to do so, and the way we did it is actually to put buses where

buses belong and actually increase the number of frequent corridors running

every 15 minutes or less every, you know, in some routes, some routes

every seven and a half minutes or less.

We reduce our footprint.

We simplify our network.

however, the service area was increased because we introduced an

augmented or on demand transit program.

So now have better service.

However, there were still some areas in Miami Dade County

that were left behind, right?

And it's not a moment for us to actually use transit in a

way that leaves people behind.

So what we did is actually trying to engage with the community, listen to those

concerns, and within a couple of weeks, we were able to launch what we believe was

a very reactive and appropriate program.

It's called the Better Bus Network Solutions Program with Uber, in which

we actually brought back service along some of those corridors that were, left

behind in the implementation of the Better Bus Network, and some of the corridors

that were actually introduced with on demand transit, where people are still

learning the system, we throw in, we threw in the, the voucher program, by now at

the month of, by the month of November.

August we have served more than 85, 000 trips in these quarters alone, right?

So we started seeing the need and that has helped us not only to first

understand that this is a great value, 85, 000 trips, Paul, with an average

cost of about $9 per trip, you know, and these are not areas that, you

know, high frequency buses go through.

These are areas that before were low productivity bus routes,

you know, costing us $45 per passenger, 55, $5 per passengers.

So it's very effective for us to do so.

And now also it gives us a lot of insights.

You know, what we need to do now.

Can we now introduce, several changes to our bus routes?

You know, now, through this effort, we're able to say, okay, this doesn't

qualify for a big bus, bus route, but having able to introduce a,

what we call a, a fixed route light.

we now introduce a new program called MetroLink, and it's a service with

a 15 passenger van that runs along some of these corridors, right?

So, this iteration and providing, solutions for folks that need to get

places, but at the same time, learnings from our planners to actually provide

a better service has been, cost effective, and illuminating the fact

that, from now, it is changing the way that we think about transit as a whole.

And, you know, as you guys know, I'm executive director of the North

American Transit Alliance, which is the big contractors like TransDev,

Keolis, National Express, which now, by the way, is called WeDriveU, and,

and RATP DEV and MV Transportation.

So all of us coming together in one big community to provide, Better

service for the end customer.

That's what it's all about.

Right, Robert?

Isn't it really about, I mean, like the, like Stephen Covey said in his Seven

Habits of Highly Effective People, it's all about beginning with the end in mind.

And the end we have in mind is service to people, providing them access

to all of life's opportunities.

And if we can do it in a cost efficient way by using third party contractors who

may be able to provide it a little cheaper and also have maybe, even better customer

service stats, I mean, that's pretty cool.

What do you think, Robert?

Yeah, you know, we're a contract provider for all of our services, whether it's

our fixed route, our demand response.

We actually have contracts for yellow school bus service here in Marin County,

so we've always relied on our partners to, to help us deliver services.

I do think that even during the pandemic we, when we felt the pinch of driver

shortages and other cost escalations, we had to look beyond our, our current

resources and, and that's really where, where we made the pivot to start to work

with, with Uber and Lyft and, and, and take advantage of those other mobility

resources right here in our community.

Carlos, I mean, have you seen the same thing there too?

Is it, do you, do you feel like it's a cost effective solution?

the thing is that we are now, and I love how the theme of this

conversation is about extending the reach of transit, right?

And that can mean a lot of things, right?

There's nothing that can compete with a well run fixed route

service that is frequently carrying a lot of passengers, right?

So we have conversations, you know, we have a bus route in Miami Dade County that

carry more than 20, 000 passengers a day.

Right?

And that is more than the Tri-rail commuter rail on the three

counties in South Florida, right?

It's a bus route.

Imagine that, right?

So that is an effective bus route, right?

In order for us to continue to grow those areas, you know, we

need to dedicate the resources.

The resources are, you know, finite, right?

We don't have an extensive number of buses out there.

So what we see it is, it is more cost effective for us to reallocate

resources from other low productivity bus routes into this bus route, make

this more efficient, and also to use other, you know, third parties,

innovative approaches to actually provide service in other areas, and

all of a sudden seeing the benefit.

And I see that because not only the costs have come down, right?

If you think about it for that particular trip, the cost came down.

But now, because I put more resources, the ridership has gone up

on the regular bus service, right?

There's no better marketing than frequency for buses, right?

We have seen, I'm thrilled about this, right?

We have seen through the Better Bus Network, more than 12 percent

ridership increase on a weekday.

Just in the changes, right?

This is again to the tune of by reallocating our resources in

a cost neutral manner, seeing that, and we're able to do so.

And I think there's a lot of conversation about, you know, transit deserts, right?

And remember those days, Paul, when we're talking about transit deserts,

it was like, and That, that's just, we don't talk about transit desert.

That was back in the day.

Now is, you know what, it's okay to have a transit desert as long

as it's not a mobility desert.

And I think this is where all these things kind of come through and allow

us to actually be more efficient with the resources that we have.

Yeah.

Bonnie, that's what you guys are doing there, right?

I mean, so you may have a few people that need rides in various areas at night,

their late night shifts or whatever.

It's not enough people to justify a 40 foot bus to run a full route.

But instead, you've got the opportunity to have Uber and Lyft drivers and

other people that are already out there suddenly picking people up and

taking them where they want to go.

Yeah, you know, I call that leveraging the existing capacity of the

network that's already out there.

And I love that we can take advantage of that.

and provide service overnight where we wouldn't really be able to otherwise.

You know, whenever we do rider surveys, one of the top concerns

we always hear about is span.

Pinellas County has a lot of tourism.

I'm sorry, Carlos, but we have America's number one beach, according

to our advisor, Clearwater Beach.

Available

. It's a great beach body.

I've been there.

It's a great beach.

Yes.

Awesome there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We got a lot of great beaches here.

I know Miami does too.

but, you know, a lot of our riders don't work their traditional

nine to five service hours.

and, you know, we we're one of the most underfunded transit

systems, in the country.

And so we, we can't provide that level of service that we like to even

during the day, let alone overnight.

so we really need to get creative and figure out how can we, still provide

service to these riders, at a, you know, while still being cost efficient.

So I did a little analysis recently and, you know, to run our core route network

overnight, that's about eight or nine routes, once an hour, so between 10 p.

m.

and 6 a.

m., it would cost us about six and a half million dollars annually.

And to run the late shift program, we're spending under 400, 000 a year,

and really giving the riders that need it the most the service that they need.

Um, the cost per trip is pretty low, you know, $16, $17 a trip, we

wouldn't be able to provide this service, without partners like Uber.

And it's phenomenal to see it that way too because again, our communities are very

dynamic and not every day is the same.

Even not every Wednesday is the same, right?

So by having opportunity and not having the dedicated in those particular times.

The day that you don't have that large amount of people going the same

direction at the same time, the on demand component gives you the flexibility to

just serve what needs to be served and not basically and be able to get those

resources and apply somewhere else.

Yeah, Robert, tell us about that there in Marin, tell us about the

demographics there and some of the top priorities of your riders.

Yeah, great, great question.

So, there's a couple areas that Marin County consistently, not only in the

State of California, but nationally, ranks number one and number two.

One of those is life expectancy.

Our residents average life expectancy is over 85 years old, and, you

know, we project that one in three residents here in our county will

be over the age of 60 by 2030, and that's right around the corner.

So that goes into a lot of the planning work that we do to make sure that our

mobility services are really geared toward the future needs, of our residents.

What we're starting to see now is those residents are staying in their homes.

really we're defined more now by a healthy, active, aging community than

we are as a suburban bedroom community.

we do have pockets of poverty, we have mobility challenges, a lot

of our residents, may be house rich, but cash poor, and, so that's

really where, we focus our resources to help support those residents.

And you told me a funny little story, I thought, that, that kind of showcases

the personal nature of the mobility that we're providing to people.

Tell us about that story, about the photos that were sent to you all.

Thank you.

Yeah, so one of, one of the benefits in in bringing on our TNC partners

was expanding our service area.

So our, our existing, programs that, that, whether it was agency operated,

micro transit, or paratransit, they have very defined service area boundaries.

The TNC program really opened up that service area and, one of our early

adopters, Who I think was a little skeptical of the program, as soon as

she enrolled in the program and started to use the vouchers, we started to get

these selfies of, of her enjoying the recreational lands here in Marin County,

so, it was, it was a nice, a nice, email that we could pass around to all staff

and, it, it just kind of showcased some of the expanded mobility we were offering.

Don't you guys have, like, the big redwoods out there?

We do, so we're home to Muir Woods.

Yeah, Ben, that's amazing.

Yeah, we do run the Muir Woods Shuttle in partnership with the National

Parks out there, so you can also take that service if you're here in Marin.

Yeah, I

gotta tell people who are listening, if you've never seen these redwoods,

there's like nothing like them on earth.

I mean, you're just in awe when you stand there.

It is, it is like one of those moments where you're really communing with nature.

You've got some, you've got some great things out there, Robert.

I agree.

Yep.

Bonnie, has anything ever funny like that happened with

you and your, your operations?

Yeah, you know, one of the things that I was thinking about with

our, our late shift services when we first started it, we thought.

Okay, you know, we've got to make sure we have enough money because once

people join, they're going to, they're going to be on the program for forever.

but one of the things that we learned is that, riders, when, when they're looking

for a job, sometimes the job that they can get, Is that overnight shift and

they want to get their foot in the door.

so you may take a shift that's overnight at Taco Bell or McDonald's, but over time

you, you know, don't need that anymore.

You get put on the day shift or like we've heard from a couple of riders.

they make enough money now that.

They don't, they don't need the program.

They're able to save up and buy a car or move, you know, into a

new home, where they're closer to a bus route or something.

And, you know, that was something that we didn't really think that we'd hear

that, Riders can, you know, use the program for the amount of time that they

need, and it just really helps them in that, you know, most time of need, but

then they can either get a, you know, the day shift, or earn enough to get

a car, and they don't need us anymore, and that opens up, the program for, new

people, and they can just sort of cycle through and use it when they need it.

Carlos, it sounds to me like, kind of in, in summarizing what we're hearing

today, maybe you can help wrap us up, that when, when, public transit

agencies are looking for solutions, they want to extend the reach of

their public transit, so there might be gaps, right, that we talked about.

They don't want there to be mobility gaps, so using a third party

contractor, like an Uber or other companies, can help Close that gap.

It can also help new rider segments that Bonnie was talking about, where you've

got late night workers and others who are on non traditional shifts, where maybe we

don't have frequent bus service that, you know, we don't want them standing outside

the hospital for an hour, you know, while they wait for the next bus, so this

gives them an opportunity to have that.

It also enhances equitable transportation, so there's senior and communities

that Robert was talking about that maybe would not have access to

this type of service that now do.

And then also, we haven't talked about it a lot, but I've seen it used also in

ensuring continuity during disruptions that these third party contractors,

like an Uber, can be an option.

These cars are already out there and they're just like extending the

network opportunities, the mobility opportunities of a transit agency.

What say you?

I think it's phenomenal, right?

It's exactly what it is, right?

It is actually being part of the transit network, right?

So we talk about extending the transit, the regional transit.

To me, it's redefining how we provide transit.

And to your point, it's providing that trip, right?

And I say to all that is, is how all this kind of fits together.

Ultimately, our role is to provide public transportation in a sense that

can people have access to opportunities.

And now we have in our tool belt, right?

A lot more tools to use, not only bus and rail, but bus and rail and

on demand transit and TNCs, right?

And all these things are coming together.

Like shortly in a, in a of weeks, we're going to start seeing how we're

going to start dispatching Uber trips through our MetroConnect program,

which is our on demand transit program.

So not only that we have several voucher programs, but now enriching

the experience of someone using on demand transit programs to get to where

they need to go and to Bonnie's point of view too is now we can actually

have a different span of service that can be a more adaptive, right?

So we maintain our fleets, you know, up to 8 PM, but people go for

dinner and they don't want to go.

back home at eight o'clock.

So this is where, you know, this dispatch trip to Hanover can take

you back home a little later, right?

So it is not only providing the access to places out there, but allowing you to

live the life that you want to be, right?

Using the service that a transit agency like Miami Dade County,

Pinellas County and Marion County can actually provide for their residents.

Well, you've got great leadership there at your agency, Carlos, you know, not

only were you there, but also with my good friend, Ulois Cleckley, and also

your chief operating officer, who used to work with me, in Baltimore, Sean Adderson.

So you've got a great leadership team there and, uh, good commitment

to all things, exciting there.

I mean, we just had Ulois on the show recently talking about your

brand new, we don't have time to talk about it today, but your

brand new battery electric vehicle.

Bus garage that's coming, that's going to house, you know, these massive 60

foot buses that are coming your way.

Just exciting times down there in Miami and Bonnie with your group.

Congratulations.

A pioneer still leading the way.

And Robert, making sure that one of the, one of the wealthiest

counties in America is providing the service that their citizens deserve.

Congratulations to all of you on using all the assets that are at your

disposal to provide amazing mobility.

And thank you for sharing your stories today.

Yeah, thank you so much.

This was an awesome conversation.

Thanks, Paul.

All right, Carlos.

You know, I'll see you down there soon.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit Unplugged.

Hi, I'm Tris Hussey editor of the podcast, and I'd like to thank our guests.

Carlos Cruz-Casas, Bonnie Epstein.

And Robert Betts for their time to appear on the show.

We'd also like to thank Uber Transit, the sponsor of this episode.

Uber Transit recently published Transit Horizons 2.0.

The Mobility Evolution.

An industry perspective paper exploring how public private partnerships can and

have enhanced public transportation.

It's available for download at uber.com/transit horizons.

You can also find the link in the show notes.

Next week on the show we had to Boston to hear from Ryan Coholan

COO of the MBTA.

And learn about how Boston is leveling up its entire network From

buses, to commuter rail, to ferries.

Plus you have to hear about Ryan's commute into work.

We're pretty sure this is the most unique commute you'll come across in transit.

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.

And at Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.