[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the house. (Trasncription powered by Descript and is not edited for content and errors may occur.)

[00:00:08] David Applebaum: You know, many architects will, somebody will say, look, I know you're busy or I'm in another town. I'm looking at these three architects, will you look at their websites? Jeremy architects have websites that just have 3d renderings of projects and not actual constructed houses. I have seen so many architects that beat, um, w where my son was going to school.

[00:00:33] David Applebaum: They, they said, we want to hire you as the architect for the campus. He said, no, thank you. I don't want to do work where I'm part of the community and have everybody bugging me. They want this, they want that, but I'll be happy to evaluate. So what we really love is from X, they had a great interview. And I looked at the website.

[00:00:52] David Applebaum: I said, there's not one project that was built when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home. There is a lot to [00:01:00] know this is around the house.

[00:01:08] Eric Goranson: Welcome to around the house with Eric G and Caroline be a new kind of home improvement every single weekend. Thanks for joining us, Caroline. We've got a close and dear friend in the house,

[00:01:21] Caroline Blazovsky: the best architect, the best. I think he's like one of the funniest guests we have. So when he comes on, I always laugh because he's just so comical and just so easy.

[00:01:32] Caroline Blazovsky: It's in his blood

[00:01:35] Eric Goranson: and you see them on our social media. He's around everywhere. David Applebaum to the starchitect to the stars. Welcome back.

[00:01:44] David Applebaum: Hey, how you doing? Y'all you know, I don't know if I can continue after all of those platitudes. Gee, I don't know if any of them are accurate, especially me being easy.

[00:01:59] Eric Goranson: Wow. This is a [00:02:00] family show and we're not going to get into that today.

[00:02:08] Eric Goranson: Well, I wanted to bring you on Caroline and I were talking about this because you know, I've seen on social media here over the holidays and up through January and into February. Now, how many people out there starting a house remodel or a new construction house and they've pulled up internet plans and all of a sudden they're on the interweb out there in a social media group, talking about redesigning this house via the social media platform.

[00:02:37] Eric Goranson: And I'm going, this is already such a bad way to start. I call those people dreamers many times, because I know that there's no way that's going to get off the ground from that angle.

[00:02:48] David Applebaum: But I wanted to talk about, you know, it might get off the ground. It just might hit the ground really soon.

[00:02:56] Eric Goranson: You know, I love let's, let's dive into this.

[00:02:59] Eric Goranson: If you're [00:03:00] thinking about doing a major remodel or an addition or something like that, or even starting to build a new house, I wanted to get your recommendations, David, where do you start?

[00:03:12] David Applebaum: Oh, that, that is such a loaded question. And it's funny because not even major, I've got a friend who lives in San Diego who said, I want to open up my kitchen and my living room and my dining room.

[00:03:24] David Applebaum: And I'm not sure if I even can. And so he came to me and I, I. Touch with the right kind of people. He didn't need very much of me. Um, I have to say this is it's, it's a really multifaceted question with even more multilayered answers and I would start off with, what is it that you want? And from there go into a couple of different directions.

[00:03:54] David Applebaum: Um, I have said to you before, if you're throwing, let me [00:04:00] start by saying, I hear a lot of people say, what do I need an architect for? I've lived in houses, all of my life. I know what I like. I've got good taste. Well, you don't go to a wedding reception. And say, you know what I've cooked before. And I know what I like when I eat.

[00:04:18] David Applebaum: So I'm going to cook all of the food for the wedding reception when everybody knows the smartest idea is to hire a caterer and then you decide, no,

[00:04:28] Caroline Blazovsky: no, no. I was going to say, I think people get scared when they hear the word architect, because they think it's just automatically a big ticket item. And that's just my, I mean, I may be wrong with that.

[00:04:39] David Applebaum: And the. Nope, you are here. So here's the other side of it. Okay. Which is, what are you getting out of it? One of my prized employees who now is on his own, um, there was a new regulation in Los Angeles. And so I called him because I saw him [00:05:00] applying for the low intensity development permit. And I was about to do my first and I said, Hey, what's going on with this?

[00:05:07] David Applebaum: Um, can you give me a couple of pointers? Because sometimes we don't know everything either. Is it it'd be easier if I show you the drawings, but before I do, before I do, I want you to promise you won't give me any judgment because this was a client that only paid me $7,000 to do the architecture. So they got a box and I made it really clear for $7,000.

[00:05:32] David Applebaum: You're only getting a box. He said, I know you, even, if you got a $7,000 commission, you would keep on designing it, redesigning it, redesigning it until it was perfect. I, I am not willing to do that. So the point is you can specify with your architect, how much you want and how much you're willing to spend.

[00:05:56] David Applebaum: It doesn't have to be expensive as a whole. I'm [00:06:00] a full service architect. You hire me. I'm there from, uh, evaluation of your program. Uh, taking a close look at the codes. I'm doing a project right now that the client was smart enough to say I had an architect that said he would do it for $5,000. Here's the drawings, something seems wrong about it.

[00:06:24] David Applebaum: And I looked at it and I said, okay, in your neighborhood, there's an area restriction. And he is three times the area that you're allowed to have. Okay. Um, there's a height restriction and he's over the height restriction. You would have spent that small amount of architecture and you would have never gotten it built.

[00:06:45] David Applebaum: And if you would have gotten built, it would have cost you a hundred thousand dollars in variants, geesh. So I tell all of my clients, I guarantee you that when you hire me, I [00:07:00] will save you as much money as my fee, if not more, by knowing how to do the right thing. And they didn't finish, you know, full service goes all the way through watching the construction process.

[00:07:12] David Applebaum: Observing it reporting into the client, the things that are going right in our going wrong and making sure that the contractor charges the right amount of a client is not supposed to pay the contractor. They'll do the architect, looks at the fees and say, wait a minute, you didn't put this in or you didn't put it in, right.

[00:07:30] David Applebaum: Or you have to put it in this way before all approve you, getting a chance to get paid for it.

[00:07:36] Eric Goranson: You know, there's a lot of, as a designer, I've seen this a lot out there, David and you're and you're dead on. Right? I've seen there's multiple different ways that I see contractors doing new construction house bids.

[00:07:50] Eric Goranson: They will go on to that. They will bid the house project to remodel or whatever else. And I will see where everything's itemized. You can see that they have [00:08:00] materials that are on par with that level of construction. And I'm like, okay, budgets are great. And then there's that handful of them out there that love.

[00:08:12] Eric Goranson: To do that add on change order where there the changeover

[00:08:17] David Applebaum: and not just one and not just one change order. If a change order is about $4,000 or even $2,000. Okay. Which might not seem like a lot in a $200,000 house, you do 10 of those and you've added 10% to the price. That's the reason why when the architect is involved and your bidding, the project, the architect has a responsibility to look into what the contract there is like.

[00:08:44] David Applebaum: Cause there's several contractors that I know if I've got three bids, this guy is going to always be 10% lower than everybody else. Cause he knows he's getting in on that low price. And then he's going to change [00:09:00] order the heck out of that project until it becomes more expensive than the most expensive contractor who had all of that.

[00:09:08] David Applebaum: It, isn't going to charge a penny extra. So

[00:09:10] Caroline Blazovsky: question, do you go with the contractor that your architect would recommend or do you go with your own contractor?

[00:09:20] David Applebaum: Wow. See, that's another loaded question because I know this happened to me so often when I was younger, I would interview to do a house and the client would say, I want to redo my kitchen on the first floor, redo my utility room, open up the den.

[00:09:39] David Applebaum: Then I want to add on to the second floor, another two bedrooms, and I'd say, okay, what's your budget? $500,000. It's like, okay, I can do the bottom floor for 500,000 or I can do the top floor for 500,000, but I can't do both. I [00:10:00] can do both for about eight 50 or not. Um, with the guest limit of what it's going to cost, but just the amount of how much it costs per square foot, what materials cost labor, and all that.

[00:10:12] David Applebaum: My guesstimate is you're talking about a million dollar project and I would never hear from them again until a year and a half, two years later. And then I'd get a call and they'd say, so we went in with this architect who has his own contractor. He works with all the time and he said he could get it done for $500,000.

[00:10:33] David Applebaum: So we went with them. We didn't like the design, but we figured you'd get what you paid for with David. You get beauty, but it's twice as much. We'll go with this cheaper guy. We know it's ugly, but we don't care. We need all that square footage because we can't afford it. We'll just, you know, plant Ivy on the exterior of the house.

[00:10:51] David Applebaum: It's now a year and a half later, we have fresh. And we have already put out checks of $480,000. And this is clearly [00:11:00] going to be a million dollar project, like you said, and we're kicking ourselves wishing we would have hired you because if we're going to spend a million dollars, we should have gotten the good architecture.

[00:11:13] David Applebaum: What am I supposed to say in a situation like that? You know? But so, so Caroline, here's the problem. You don't know if the architect that you're talking to is a sleazeball cause he might be. Yeah. Well,

[00:11:28] Eric Goranson: and then on top of that, David, you have to have as a homeowner, you have to bring everyone in together.

[00:11:36] Eric Goranson: This is like sports, it's a team. This is a team effort. And if the architect doesn't like the builder or the builder, doesn't like the architect. This is going to be an ugly project, no matter how good the architect is. And no matter how good the builder is, if those personalities don't work together, [00:12:00] it's not going

[00:12:01] David Applebaum: to be fun.

[00:12:03] David Applebaum: I've told every single one of my clients, you've got a contractor. I want to meet him cause I want to meet good contractors. And I will let you know what I think. Um, but I will tell you, I could be the greatest architect in the world. And if you hire a schlock builder, nothing will go, right. It'll cost extra things, won't work and we'll all be frustrated.

[00:12:26] David Applebaum: I could be a terrible architect and you could have a good builder and at least you'll have a solid house. The key is to find a good architect and a good builder that work well together. I, I, you know, I've been doing it long. I'm always excited to meet new builders. I've got a project right now that the client said, oh, a friend of mine has a great builder.

[00:12:47] David Applebaum: And it's like, okay, I want to meet them. I said, but I know two other contractors. And I can tell you right now, their prices will be within 5% of each other. So in my opinion, you should meet them. And whichever [00:13:00] one you like best let's sign up with them early and get them involved early. So that way we can get everything ordered because especially with supply, as it is, we can now get all of this.

[00:13:11] David Applebaum: We can start ordering four months ahead of time, three months ahead of time, get everything that we need, especially the ones with long runtimes. And we know we're getting a great project. And by the way, when I'm looking at contractors, I have a very, um, uh, secret way that I test out contractors. But see, I've been around long enough.

[00:13:35] David Applebaum: I know who in Los Angeles in particular who the good. Stone yard is who the good electricians are because a contractor, quite honestly, all they're doing is providing an excellent schedule where they're manipulating daily, what's happening today next week, next month, six months from now. So they can get the job done as effectively as possible.

[00:13:59] David Applebaum: And [00:14:00] they're having really good relations with good subcontracts with their own, you know, the contractor usually isn't the plumber, isn't the framer is the electrician, or if he's one of them, he's not all of them. And he's certainly not also the tile guy and the carpet guy. So they need to have good subs that do great work.

[00:14:20] David Applebaum: So I asked the substance suppliers the best stone yard in all of Los Angeles. I know some of the guys that run it and so I'll call them and say, Hey, I'm thinking about working with so-and-so. And they'll say either one of three things, I wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw. Oh, yeah, we've worked with them.

[00:14:39] David Applebaum: No problem. And the gold standard, they have a credit account with us. Yeah. We don't demand payment because we know they're good for it. We trust them. We have a long relationship. Those are the guys that want to work with, or girls. I have women contractors. I work with, you

[00:14:59] Eric Goranson: [00:15:00] know, that's interesting David, because you know, I've thought about this as well.

[00:15:03] Eric Goranson: Cause I've worked with hundreds of contractors over the years as a kitchen and bath designer. And that's one of the things that stone yard is dealing with a contractor late in the project. So schedules get blown up with schedules, get blown up. It affects the stone yard the most, because they're trying to get in there towards the end of the project.

[00:15:27] Eric Goranson: And they're the ones that are scrambling. So they see that schedule being off track. And usually that's about the time that the payments, the money starts getting a little tighter because they've been paying all the bills.

[00:15:41] David Applebaum: Oh, you got my little secret. That's what, and yeah, that's exactly why I go with them.

[00:15:47] David Applebaum: And so I called them first because they're the ones that see the, the end of, you know, as well as I do the last 10% of the project is as much effort as the first 90. Yep. So if you were involved in, [00:16:00] in, in getting a peek at what that last 10% is, I'm doing a project right now, right now. And this kind of funny how architecture goes full circle.

[00:16:10] David Applebaum: When I was working for somebody, I, you know, I did Frank Sinatra's train room and then Frank went to my old boss to do his beach house and. I mean, look, the guy had some issues. He'd lost the last living relative in his life, in his family. And he was not in a good place. And he showed up and he had had a couple too many and they were, they said, no, no, no, we don't want to work with this.

[00:16:39] David Applebaum: This is not good. And the decorator said, remember, David, you did your train room. He's on his own. And that's how that happened. I'm now doing the fourth project for that decorator's kids. And, um, the three projects before they said we have the contractor, don't worry. [00:17:00] Awful inexpensive, but awful. And it always costs them at the end.

[00:17:04] David Applebaum: We, in ways, for instance, for instance, they had a bad electrician and so the wiring never, the lights didn't work. The gate operator didn't work all of these and I'd sit, please, let me get you a good contractor, please, please. So on this one, it was a little more complicated said, please let me get you one of my better contractors, which they hired.

[00:17:26] David Applebaum: We're almost done. And the client is like, I cannot believe how easy this process is. Like, that's what happens when you hire a good contractor. And I did then go circle back to what we're talking about. That's why you hire a good architect. I cannot tell you how many times and see this then goes back to what we were saying before everybody wants it.

[00:17:47] David Applebaum: Cheap now, and they want it so cheap and so free. And there's so many Arctic saying, well, I'm willing to do that house for $4,000. Like my former employee did, even though the proper fee would be 20, [00:18:00] I'll do it for four, but they're only going to get a box. Well, he was smart. He only did a box. I've seen so many houses where you look at the elevation and it doesn't match the plan, which doesn't match the cross section.

[00:18:14] David Applebaum: And you call the architect to say, um, you know, excuse me, what are we supposed to do? This plate line means that the ceiling is only five feet tall. It's not at least eight feet tall. It's supposed to be to be legal. What are we split? And the architect doesn't even answer the phone because they have no answer for it.

[00:18:37] David Applebaum: But if you're like me and you put the time into making sure, I mean, you know, as well as I do, cause you all know. I build models of every single project I ever do. And I do it because you a drawing. If you've seen it in C Escher sketch, you can have a staircase that goes right into itself. You can lie [00:19:00] on a two dimensional format trying to draw something three-dimensional, but a model never lies.

[00:19:06] David Applebaum: And then you notice, oh, this corner, I could wrap this around. You don't see that in flat drawings, but in a modeling can. And it also tells you, oh, oh, I missed that plate line. You know? So w when, when I did Cuba Gooding Jr's house, I spend a week on the roof and I did it with a model, not with drawings. And when the roofer with the framer was getting ready to do the roof, I was at the job site and it was 11 30, 12 o'clock.

[00:19:37] David Applebaum: And the guy who ran the crew. Walked over to me and said, I'm going home with a six pack of beer and your role of drawings. Nobody ever gets the roof. Right. I'm getting freaking meet me here tomorrow at eight. And I'll tell you where you went wrong. It was like, okay. And I'm thinking I did a [00:20:00] model. I mean, I guess it's possible.

[00:20:02] David Applebaum: I could have made a mistake and I showed up and they were already building their facility. You wanted me here at eight that we started at six. It's like, okay, well, here I am. What do you want to say to me? He said, there's nothing wrong with your drawings. We're just building it. Let's see that that week I spent on that roof saved my client money because they didn't have to reframe it.

[00:20:29] Eric Goranson: Exactly. Caroline, you had a question over there.

[00:20:32] Caroline Blazovsky: I think the question becomes, and we're all in. Quandary clients come to us all the time and they want everything done inexpensively. And I've had clients who now have been to, let's say 10 environmental consultants. They've got a problem with their house.

[00:20:47] Caroline Blazovsky: They have no answers. They've run up, practice bills, testing and whatnot. And then they get to me or to David or whoever, or. And they're like, well, you need to do a cheap, cause I spent so much, I've made these mistakes [00:21:00] along the line. And now somehow the person who's going to do it right. Has to compensate financially for all the mistakes that were made.

[00:21:06] Caroline Blazovsky: So how do we deal with that? Like contractors who listen to the show all the time, and I want this information, how do we deal with the customer that comes to us and says, I've been burned. I don't want to pay a lot. We don't want to lose the client, but on the same time, we don't want to sell ourselves out.

[00:21:20] Caroline Blazovsky: So what

[00:21:21] Eric Goranson: do we do? I got, I got something to add to this, going back and being the repair person on either the drawings or the construction will always be more than what I want a cost to do it right. The first time it's never less

[00:21:38] David Applebaum: ever. I just turned, I was told I have a construction manager that has hired me to be an architect on a couple of projects.

[00:21:47] David Applebaum: And he called me and said, Hey, I needed. And I said for you, I'll do something small. Like your deck, no problem mean I'm kind of busy, but I want to take care of you. You're good for business. So his assistant [00:22:00] calls me four weeks later and then describes that what's happened is it's been built. They took shortcut it.

[00:22:09] David Applebaum: Wasn't actually done to the drawings and they have to fix it. And I said, whoa, that's not what you told me. And I hate to tell you when I was 20, I would have figured out a way I would eat. I would have lost money, but I would have done it for the relationship. That quite honestly, you can't count on. Nope.

[00:22:29] David Applebaum: So I'm at that age now where it's like, you know what, I'm sorry, I can't help you. I do not do fixes anymore. I have done so many projects when I say so many. It's too many, but it's only been about four but four projects where it's like, oh my architects. He did this. He did that. He lied. I want to hire you and fix it for me.

[00:22:51] David Applebaum: Not one of those projects were built because the client was the, was the crazy one and it's not our [00:23:00] responsibility to fix crazy. So if you're going to always change the rules and like one of those clients, it was a $12 million project. You bet I'm going to take over a $12 million house. Cause my fees would be astronomical and it would be three years worth of work.

[00:23:20] David Applebaum: And I was so excited. I did a house that was $12 million house. Ooh. I don't know if we have $12 million. Can you do a $10 million? Okay, sure. No problem. And then you just take a couple of things out. Turns to $10 million. Gee, I don't know about 10 million. What can you do for seven and a half? Well, now it takes a whole redesign.

[00:23:39] David Applebaum: And I now have in my Kieron jet contract, when I redesign it, we start all over again. But I, I kept my percentage to the point where it went from 12 to 10, seven and a half to five to three to, well, what can do for a million and a half. And, oh, by the way, we've paid you so much money. You owe us, [00:24:00] you're going to do the rest of it for free.

[00:24:01] David Applebaum: And I said, thank you. No, thank you.

[00:24:05] Eric Goranson: Well, Caroline, you and I, on the contractor side of this, we have, you know, a client that you're working with that has got a, we you've heard us talk about it on the show a little bit in the past a basement project that went sideways. And the first two people that I reached out to that could possibly take on the job that came in from a great referral.

[00:24:25] Eric Goranson: They did the same thing as contractors. They're like, you know, with COVID with everything else we're busy. We don't want to get into somebody else's potential lawsuit. And they hadn't even gone out to look at it yet. They hadn't met anyone. They just went, nah, I'm busy enough. I don't need it.

[00:24:43] David Applebaum: You have to really want to take a loss like that.

[00:24:48] David Applebaum: Shower, bathroom, tile, fiasco, that your cohorts save crazy contractor. They didn't make any money on that. No, they [00:25:00] didn't. You know, and, and, and might I add, let's not forget how much heartache and headache they have gotten in the homeowner have gotten for doing a nice fit and how they're being, uh, accused of all kinds of nasty.

[00:25:22] David Applebaum: Uh, um, comments abuse or yeah, character assassination. Yeah. It's it's you know, and so sometimes you, I hate to say it, but sometimes you just have to keep your eye on the ball and take care of what you need to take care of. Um, you know, I mean, by the same token, what's getting tougher architects like myself, as it used to be, somebody would call me and say, Hey, our kids are now almost elementary school age.

[00:25:54] David Applebaum: We want to move from our neighborhood to a neighbor that is better schools. We found three [00:26:00] properties that we like, we don't know which one is the best one to go. Would you go with us? And with. Figure out which remodeling or tear down is the best. And so you look and you, you do the pros and the cons and you give them a valuation statement on all of those.

[00:26:17] David Applebaum: And then they would pick one and you would do it. And you would get your permit in six months and you'd build it in nine months and they'd be in it within, within two years, usually within a year and a half, but certainly within two years. Well now with the permit process, especially with COVID, it now takes two years to get a permit and then it takes another nine months to build.

[00:26:42] David Applebaum: So I'm losing more jobs to flippers there. So you see that client that wanted to look at the three properties. They don't exist anymore because flippers are coming in and over pain with cash to get this house. So [00:27:00] there aren't anything available unless the guy. Owns the house. Okay. And then they're doing a re cause I, I looked up when I was looking to buy a house myself.

[00:27:09] David Applebaum: I was looking at some of these that were available and there were ones that had $250,000 with a foundation repair that needed to be done. And the flippers came in with cash and paid as much as a brand new house would be on that street. And there's no way that they would spend the kind of, I mean, I'm telling you, every wall was cracked.

[00:27:31] David Applebaum: The garage had a crack where the two parts of the slab were an inch and a half higher than one another in a three inch gap in between was a lot of slipping. Yeah. And so I'm sure that what they did was they put in a poxy seal over the ground, it down, put in a poxy seal on it and somebody bought it and didn't realize they were getting.

[00:27:54] David Applebaum: Something absolutely worthless, but there isn't that much opportunity for [00:28:00] architecture, which is why so many architects are giving their services away. And if you want just the box, if you want an elevation that doesn't match a floor plan, then yeah. That's the cheap way to go, but it'll end up costing you so much in the long run, but it's hard to get the word out.

[00:28:19] Caroline Blazovsky: And then as an it's really hard as an environmental consultant, I'm seeing the problems that are covered up. So I'm seeing the damage, the infrastructure that's destroyed, that's causing the leaks or even the radon problems or, you know, whatever it happens. And now you've got health issues with a homeowner on top of the fact that they can't afford to fix what was wrong.

[00:28:43] Caroline Blazovsky: So when you're choosing now, when you're choosing your contractor architect, no, but when you're choosing us or choosing your contractor, your architect, your consultants, you need to make sure that they are qualified. And, you know, [00:29:00] in my organization, there's places, people can go one to find out if you've got your appropriate credentialing, your education, but then also reading, bio's finding out where people went talking to other people like, you know, if you go on David's website, you're going to find out a whole bunch about him, his background, where did he train?

[00:29:16] Caroline Blazovsky: And those things are completely important and you cannot trade it off for something to be cheap. You are going to get what you pay for. And I can't say this enough, and there are people like when you come to Eric or David or myself, look, there's always these pro bono cases that we take on that. We're definitely not making what we should in order to help.

[00:29:35] Caroline Blazovsky: Right. But at the end of the day, you can rely on that. You have to realize you're going to have to pay out for somebody. And for expertise,

[00:29:45] David Applebaum: the, the best thing that I have to say about this, about what your response to what you said is you were saying, when you go to my website, you know, many architects will, somebody will say, look, I know you're busy, or I'm in another town.

[00:29:59] David Applebaum: I'm looking at these [00:30:00] three architects, will you look at their websites? Do you have any architects have websites that just have 3d renderings of projects and not actual constructed houses? I have seen so many architects that the, um, where my son was going to school, they, they said, we want to hire you as, as the architect for the campus.

[00:30:21] David Applebaum: Is it? No, thank you. I don't want to do work where I'm part of the community and have everybody bugging me. They want this, they want that, but I'll be happy to evaluate it. So what we really love this from X, they had a great interview and I looked at the website and I said, there's not one project that was built.

[00:30:41] David Applebaum: Not one, they're all computer rendered. That means they either couldn't meet the budget. They couldn't get the permit or they pissed off the client and got fired. That's not who you want to hire. You want to hire somebody that you can actually see that they've done work and talk to people and say, [00:31:00] yeah, this was David.

[00:31:01] David Applebaum: You know, the worst thing about David is when the contractor doesn't come in with any passion, he starts yelling at him and saying, you either show up and do your work, or we'll find another contractor.

[00:31:13] Eric Goranson: So true. So

[00:31:15] David Applebaum: true. I had one client called me the Tasmanian day. I was like, David's fine until that one moment when you really piss him off.

[00:31:24] David Applebaum: And then he goes crazy.

[00:31:27] Eric Goranson: I've got a question for you, David. And I know this is a double edged sword question as well. What do you think about homeowners putting completion date? In their contract with builders.

[00:31:43] David Applebaum: Yes. W and you know what, I'm going to answer with the double-edged sword answer, because I F I cannot tell you when your clients say, and I want to put in there a hefty financial penalty, if they don't get it done by X date.

[00:31:56] David Applebaum: And I'd say, I completely understand that. And I have no problem [00:32:00] with that. As long as you put a bonus in there of an equal amount of money, if he or she gets finished before that, because you cannot be one sided, you have to give and take. And I mean, I'm, I'm actually just, I'm just starting work on a project.

[00:32:20] David Applebaum: That's next door to another project that was way over budget, because the client bought a house in Malibu. I signed the contract in December. They wanted to move in July 4th weekend. That was six months to draw it, permit it and get it built. Wow. This is like extreme home makeover. We paid a lot. They paid a lot of overtime.

[00:32:45] David Applebaum: We had on it's a tiny lot. Malibu, lots are not here on the beach. We had 180 people a day there. It was such a massive humanity [00:33:00] working on that project. We had 11 pounds, 11 that's how, and they got cleaned three times a week. That's how many people were there.

[00:33:09] Eric Goranson: And that's such a waste of time because so many people are stepping over the top of each other.

[00:33:16] Eric Goranson: The electrician is in there working over the top of the. You

[00:33:21] David Applebaum: know, well, in Latin, in last, you have, and in this case, one of the best builders in all of Los Angeles who had a job captain, that was the spreadsheet king. Got it. And I will admit, and you know, it was, I had the same kind of, um, uh, a bonus structure.

[00:33:41] David Applebaum: So I was at the job site four days out of the week, if not all five. And when the superintendent who was a coast guard reserve had to take a week off, the contractor asked me if I would be at the job full-time every single day to [00:34:00] run the job in his place, instead of bringing one of his other guys in, because I knew the job.

[00:34:05] David Applebaum: And of course I was happy to do it. Yeah. The superintendent said to me, the framer, because we had so many people on top of each other, the framer is persnickety, and he's going to get his feelings hurt, and he's going to go stomping off the job site. And your job is to walk over to him and put your hand on his shoulder and say, Dave's name is Dave.

[00:34:28] David Applebaum: Also, Dave, you're absolutely right. You are right. You are being treated so badly. I wish there was something I could do, but we love you. And we really need you to come back and

[00:34:44] Eric Goranson: talk him off the ledge, talk them off the ledge. But you

[00:34:46] David Applebaum: know, I mean, you know, it was so, so it's so funny, cause this is a contractor, um, who, uh, had enough in his reserves that every single [00:35:00] subcontractor, you know, with most contractors, the contractor.

[00:35:05] David Applebaum: Gets the work done by the sub, the substance, a bill, the bill gets then submitted to the client. The client pays the bill to the contractor, and then the contractor pays the sub, correct. This contractor on this job said to every sub, I will pay you the day you give me a bill. Wow. If you do the work that I'm asking you to do, I will pay you out of my own pocket.

[00:35:26] David Applebaum: So when he said the electrician, I need nobody at my job tomorrow or the next day, but then I need twice as many people. The day after that, there were twice as many people the day after that. And happily because the subconscious, this is, and so this is how, you know, the subcontractors know a good contractor because they know how to treat their subs, pay their subs, be responsible for the subs back them up when they need to be backed up and discipline them when they need to be.[00:36:00]

[00:36:01] Eric Goranson: Cool, what my question is now, does it hurt quality when you put that kind of thing in there? When they're trying to get things done early for that financial gain, that's always the million dollar. Yes.

[00:36:14] David Applebaum: Well, in this project, it did not in most in nine out of 10 projects. Yes. I completely get it. But we had some of the best subcontractors in all of Los Angeles working on this project and we were all a team.

[00:36:31] David Applebaum: And that was one of the reasons I will say this. I may be the Tasmanian devil when you piss me off. But when you're doing the job, there is nobody that's more complimentary and nobody that is more supportive and has your back better than me. So that's why I was there at the job site every day. I was there as much as a cheerleader.

[00:36:52] David Applebaum: I mean, I was there every single day because I wanted to make sure I drew that. I've spent a lot of time on this. You just walked [00:37:00] on to this job, Dwyer something. Let me tell you what the little secret is in this and let me help you. And so you're, you are right. Most of the time, this was, um, a one in a million type of thing where I actually just saw the house 20 years later.

[00:37:19] David Applebaum: Hmm. Wow. It's pristine. Pristine. The only thing that ever happened to that house that was not was it's in Malibu. We had the, was it the Woolsey fire two years ago, there was smoke damage. So the paint had to be scrubbed and redone and you know, that was, that was it. And that has nothing to do with the quality of the work.

[00:37:41] Eric Goranson: Well, I've got a question for you here as well, David, and this is going to take you down into Caroline's world a little bit too. You know, I see builders out there that have done wonderful work over 30 years. But they have not stayed up on top of current [00:38:00] traditional, or even a high performance building advances, which leads you inside to healthy home.

[00:38:07] Eric Goranson: You know, the way that they wrap the outside, the flashings, that kind of stuff. And in today's day and age, especially in an area like me with Portland, where I'm located, where, you know, water intrusion is a massive issue. What are you seeing out there? What is a good way to, to get that project started with the builder to make sure that they understand that because many times you're not specifying those systems, but you're leaning on the builder to do that correctly on the exterior and thus leading into all the healthy home implications inside the house.

[00:38:45] David Applebaum: Yeah, you're basically bringing up the main reason why I turned to prayer.

[00:38:55] David Applebaum: This, this goes back to what I was saying, where a contractor needs to have the [00:39:00] best subcontractors, because the contractor isn't, the waterproofer is not, the framer is not the electrician. And so, um, it's one of the reasons why I like going to job sites and talking to the people cause I'll ask them. So when I've heard about, what do you think about, what do you do when, um, those are the questions that I like to ask because you're right.

[00:39:23] David Applebaum: You know, the way that we wrap a house is so different and you know, Caroline and I have known each other for awhile and we bonded over with me asking her some questions about healthy homes. And I said, I just need you to know I am not a fan of the zero energy. And I could hear her on the other side of the phone jumping up and down going me, meet me too.

[00:39:49] David Applebaum: They're so unhealthy. You know, we li I live in California where there's so many energy standards that you have to meet, and it basically creates an ice cooler [00:40:00] where it's so seal, you have one drop of water. It's not getting any air, it's not getting any light. It turns into rancid mold eventually. And

[00:40:14] David Applebaum: we, um, Caroline, you really need to have a glass of tea. Okay. Um, so, um, we, so, you know, it's really important to be on top of these new ways to, to wrap and, you know, other kinds of, because, you know, It takes a village. You know, when, when you're talking about here's the thing, that's the most important. This is why I think you need to hire an architect.

[00:40:46] David Applebaum: Okay. Because someone has to be the owner's agent and make sure that what it is that they want is done correctly for a fair price. And so hopefully you hire somebody like me that tries to take your [00:41:00] lifestyle and figure out how to make the best house that choreographs your life best. Everyone's different when you just, when you wake up in the morning, so people have to brush your teeth.

[00:41:11] David Applebaum: So people have to go to the bathroom. Somebody has to, uh, go for a run. Somebody has to have a cup of coffee. Somebody has to check on the. Whichever one of those, you are, my job is to make it, so the house serves that that way. And, um, and so there's that. And then with that, then making sure the client gets what they want.

[00:41:33] David Applebaum: And you're also, I can't tell you many times I've been called because somebody says I have a $2 million budget. I hired an architect. The bids came in the lowest one was 6.2 million. Not two. I can't afford that. What do we. And so it's like, well, you have to start all over again. You can't just take out this and that.

[00:41:52] David Applebaum: I can maybe make it five for that, but it can't make it too. Yeah. Um, so you have to design it then in a responsible [00:42:00] way that not only gives the client what they want, you don't want to be that used car salesman. You know, that saying, you know, oh, you want a car. Well, and then all of a sudden you've got 17 ad-ons that you don't really need that you're paying money for, or you're getting an SUV when really you should just get a little coop where you're getting, you know, a pickup truck that does work rather than is a family card, all those.

[00:42:23] David Applebaum: So then you want to make sure that that architect is part of the process to pick the right contractor. She don't just go for the low bid. You go for the fair bid and then you watch it and make sure that it gets built so that it is the right kind of waterproofing and is the right kind of seal. And that it is the right kind of air conditioning.

[00:42:42] David Applebaum: And then you want to have them move in and make sure that it is just right. So, um, you know, you, you can, I'm not saying you can't survive without an architect, but you're more than likely going to end up with [00:43:00] extraneous payments, maybe an unusable space. You know what I mean? All these people, oh, I want to put a fireplace.

[00:43:08] David Applebaum: If it doesn't fit, let's put it in the corner. Well, you put it in the corner and Elvis and the furniture doesn't work. Yup. You know, what are you thinking about? No, no.

[00:43:17] Caroline Blazovsky: I think the point of this is that an architect does a lot more than just design. Right? I think people assume an architect is just going to do your layout, your design, what it's going to look like, but there is so much more an architect can help you pick product.

[00:43:31] Caroline Blazovsky: A lot of my clients who've done green builds or even lead builds that architect is their key go-to person for product selection and knowing what's going to be environment. Savvy. And what's going to work with the house. And especially a lot of my clients who have allergy and chemical sensitivity needs.

[00:43:48] Caroline Blazovsky: If you find the right architect, that person can make your life so tremendously easier when, when designing a house. So I think that, I think there's so much more.

[00:43:59] Eric Goranson: Can I tell you how much [00:44:00] I hate lead builds by the way designer, how much I hate

[00:44:04] David Applebaum: that? I'm like,

[00:44:07] Eric Goranson: okay, we're in a lead community. I was doing this house in a lead community and they had to do lead and they wanted to do the kitchen cabinets out of this straw material and this stuff, excuse me, I'm sorry.

[00:44:23] Eric Goranson: If you're the company that makes us this stuff back in the two thousands was crap.

[00:44:29] David Applebaum: He was like even more crap and kitchen or a bathroom.

[00:44:34] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And I mean, this stuff was like making cabinetry at a rice cake. I mean, if you looked at it funky, fall down, you would. I mean, let's put it this way. If I picked up a cast iron pan that was on a shelf in a cabinet in dropped it a half of an inch, the chance of that cabinet completely coming off the wall in a landing on the floor is [00:45:00] about a 50 50 shot.

[00:45:02] David Applebaum: And I'm not exaggerating, not just will. It probably not last long. When I was doing Cuba Jr's house, he gave me his budget and I said, okay, do you want to green lead kind of how sort of course I do. I said, okay, for that price, I can give you a 4,000 square foot house, or I can give you a 3000 square foot, maybe 2,800 square foot greenhouse.

[00:45:33] David Applebaum: And he's like, And I said, well, you know, if it's going to be that you've got to get lumbers from a certain source, you can't use PVC because you know, it's made in one place and driven all the way over. I said, I'm just going to tell you this. If you let me do your, you know, it's standard construction, ELLs, I will provide latent passive [00:46:00] cost-effective ways of keeping her house cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

[00:46:04] David Applebaum: We'll put in stone floors, you know, we'll put windows with shade in the right place oriented, just right. We'll get it so that you, you know, you, you have the materials that are the best materials. They may not be on a scale of one to 10. That lead house has a material that's on a green level of 10, but on a construction level, it's a two.

[00:46:24] David Applebaum: So why can't we use an eight as a material that is an eight as far as green, but a 10 as a material and, and. For the extra I'm I want to have another kid, so yeah, I need the bigger house. And so, you know, it was an

[00:46:41] Caroline Blazovsky: untenable, no, go ahead and delete the lead standard just for people who who know about lead it's a metric system.

[00:46:48] Caroline Blazovsky: So basically what happens is your house could really be toxic, but because it meets a metric that is according to a lead, it'll get lead certification. So you could have high levels of [00:47:00] formaldehyde in a house, for example, but it met all the other lead parameters and it passes as lead, even though it's completely unhealthy.

[00:47:07] Caroline Blazovsky: So anyone out there who is energy and other, and

[00:47:12] David Applebaum: it's just, you're chasing you're you're casing lead points. So you're picking a material, not because it's safe from a toxicity level, but because it's locally sourced and it's made up. Instead of, you know, B I mean, let's, let's not forget, you know, I I'm, I'm on top of all of these things, you know, the, the, all of the wood associations, the Western Cedar association, that Canadian hardwood association, they're all showing us how they are responsibly planting, replanting, and getting, you know, and then picking and, and, and, uh, processing lumber in a way that is not detrimental to the environment.

[00:47:56] David Applebaum: Right. So, you know, look, I live in Los Angeles [00:48:00] when I was a kid. I would watch the tonight show and I would watch laughing and they would joke about the brown skies. Okay. We are not perfect, but we have not had a small gallery in Los Angeles since I've lived here, unless there's a forest fire and there's smoke particulate in the air for natural reasons, but we are improving.

[00:48:23] David Applebaum: You don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water. You can still do a good responsible job and not have to go all plant-based. I mean, we were talking about this before, you know, Germany is so big on making everything environmental, their cars now have wires that are no longer wrapped with plastic because that doesn't degrade.

[00:48:44] David Applebaum: So what do they do? They wrap it with soy. Well guess what rats and mice and raccoons like to eat, you know, soy where you had the car guide, who was talking about a mushroom seats. Uh, you know,[00:49:00]

[00:49:02] David Applebaum: I mean, are you kidding me? This is what these animals, it's food you're putting in. I get it. I get it. I get it.

[00:49:11] Caroline Blazovsky: You put a car out in the heat in LA with just a little bit of moisture that gets trapped in there with a mushroom soup. Like you're gonna have mushroom soup. That's disgusting. How's that

[00:49:21] David Applebaum: gonna work?

[00:49:23] David Applebaum: What if it's one of those mushrooms that is psychedelic driving, that's the San Francisco

[00:49:30] Eric Goranson: that's the Northern California edition is what that is. That's the, that's the, uh, that's the Haight Ashbury edition.

[00:49:41] David Applebaum: And this also goes to prove, and this is something that. This is not necessarily as much to do with construction and architecture, but we live in a world now where everybody likes to complain about everything.

[00:49:52] David Applebaum: There's always a Karen somewhere. There's so many, you know, whether they're on the right or the left, they'll take that. There's a 10, like they'll say, well, [00:50:00] you know, solar doesn't work in the winter and the cold, it doesn't work. No, it doesn't work as well. In the cold, but it still works in the international space station is in like, you know, subfreezing temperatures in the middle of space.

[00:50:15] David Applebaum: It's powered by solar. It works. But because that, it isn't as efficient, they say, you know, it looks solar doesn't really work. It's not really well. There's always a way to find a problem in anything. Look, there's something nice to be said about zero energy houses, because it doesn't take energy. I get that, but there's also a bigger picture and it's easy to complain.

[00:50:37] David Applebaum: It's easy to find a reason not to hire an architect. It's easy to find a reason not to hire a contractor. It's easy to find a reason to go for the cheap guy. There's also something to be said for doing it in a way that is responsible step by step good decisions that you can live with for a long time.[00:51:00]

[00:51:00] David Applebaum: And, you know, I think one of the things I love about this show and the both of you I've, I've, I've come to really appreciate the two of you as people, because you're really smart and you're very opinionated, but you're also very open and you're willing to listen to both sides or the three sides of an argument and make an intelligent decision.

[00:51:20] David Applebaum: And I think the purpose of this show is, you know, should you hire an architect? Well, I'm an architect. I'm going to say you should, but there are reasons when it isn't always the best reason. And then also you have to kind of gauge what's best. Like my friend in San Diego, he didn't pay very much to get me to take a look at and then send him to an engineer.

[00:51:40] David Applebaum: There's a load bearing wall. You'll do something like this, you know, have the engineer. You know, then just have your contractor follow all the details, the molding and all that stuff. That's in the existing house and you're done, you know, and then he called me and, you know, he called me and said, I want to put outdoor heaters.

[00:51:58] David Applebaum: Should they be gas? Or should [00:52:00] they be electric? I said, well, it depends where you're going to go. Solar Centurion, solar panels. Is that well, then the answer is electric. I think I charged him for that. No,

[00:52:10] Eric Goranson: no, but I mean, here's the thing, you know, I always recommend that people figure out on any kind of a big project, figure out what your budget is in your head first.

[00:52:20] Eric Goranson: Okay. I'm going to build a $800,000 house. I'm going to build a $2 million house or you're in the Midwest and you're going to build a really cool $200,000 house, whatever you're doing. Right. Figure that budget out first and then hire the best people to help get you

[00:52:37] David Applebaum: there. Well, I'm going to add to that.

[00:52:39] David Applebaum: Okay. I. And in the house that I lost in my divorce, my, I built a guest house. That was my office 2000 square feet, 2000 square feet, $105,000 is what I spent because I [00:53:00] made it my business. There were some things that if it would have been a client, I would have recommended something else, but I wanted to see what it was like to put a lot of small windows in instead of one large window with a huge support.

[00:53:11] David Applebaum: Um, cause I wanted to see what it felt like and, and you know, it was, it was my house. So I could always add that later on. But the point is, even if it's not a large project, if you go to the right person, You can get something. And I'm very proud of what I did. I'm doing a garage right now. And the client said I'm only spending X amount of dollars, but I want some, I, they have kind of this mid-century modern classic house.

[00:53:39] David Applebaum: And that's why they didn't hire the guy who was going to do it for $4,000. And it, and you couldn't even build it. Not only is mine buildable and mine, permittable mine is phenomenal. And what he had before was just a, it was just a box with a shed roof. It was ugly. I wouldn't put it on anything [00:54:00] much less.

[00:54:00] David Applebaum: A beautiful, I was like

[00:54:01] Caroline Blazovsky: that. The question for David. So as an architect, if you had to hire an architect, let's just say you couldn't do the job. What is the number one question you would ask? nARCHITECTS being an architect to know if you were going to hire that person for a job, like what would be a deal breaker?

[00:54:20] David Applebaum: I regret to say. Yeah. I don't know if it's a single question as much as a series of questions that would have to do with their zine philosophy, how they work with contractors, how they estimate the prices of construction, what their success rate is. I mean, when I was younger, you know, so many times I have $300,000, like, okay.

[00:54:45] David Applebaum: And I'm thinking in my head, what I could do. And I would just guess I think we can do this. I didn't know, for the first 10 years of my career, I would say, this is, I think this is 300,000. I think this is a million. I think this is 2 million and I'd be within 10%. [00:55:00] It's a little harder to do now because I don't know what construction prices are anymore.

[00:55:05] David Applebaum: You know, they're, they're, they're fluctuating on a daily basis, but, um, you know, I would personally ask to talk to past clients because I think that's probably, this is a, when you hire an architect, It's a relationship. If you're, if it's, if it's short, it lasts six months, but in most cases, it's a two to four year process that you're with so long time and, and, and actually a lifelong, I mean, I'm, I can't tell how many projects I've worked on over the years.

[00:55:36] David Applebaum: Not because something went wrong, but because they want something new or they want to expand and, you know, you want to be able to, I mean, I, one of my clients had recently who I've done other projects for, we're doing remodeling. We got into a little bit of an argument over whether I should include these extra six drawings for free.

[00:55:55] David Applebaum: I said, no, I should get paid. And so he said, you know what? We've, [00:56:00] we've known each other for 20 years. I don't want to destroy this relationship. Let's take this. We also were thinking about doing XYZ. How much would you want to get paid for this piece? These drawings plus XYZ. And we came up with, you know, something that worked to both of our satisfaction.

[00:56:18] Eric Goranson: There you go. Now I've got one thing I want to bring up before we wrap this up because as always David time always flies with you in the studio, but I wanted to touch on this because I think it's just as important of a point to bring up before you started. These are all big projects that you're bringing an architect and traditionally it's a remodel.

[00:56:39] Eric Goranson: It's a new construction house. You, as the homeowner have something you have to do, and that is to get your own life in order. This is going to be through a building process, through modeling process something that's going to be stressful, whether or not you're living in the house or not. And you're going to have [00:57:00] decisions you're going to have to make.

[00:57:02] Eric Goranson: So if you're thinking about in your relationship that you're going to go through a divorce or you've got some troubles at work and things, aren't going well, get your own house in order before you dive into this project, because. I tell you what I am know, you have horror stories too, cause you have to, at this point of people that have gone on to this that have gone down this road of remodeling, or even trying to get themselves a healthy home Caroline, that they are in a train wreck of a place in life.

[00:57:37] Eric Goranson: And it's not the place to take them to start a project

[00:57:40] David Applebaum: like this. I had an old boss, the boss that I had before the law, the second, the last boss I ever had only had one project ever built. And one of the reasons why was he would, he was a jerk. He would pit the husband against the wife, [00:58:00] whoever agreed with him.

[00:58:01] David Applebaum: He, he supported, I have the four projects I worked on with him and six that I followed afterwards. None of them got built of those 10. Didn't get built because they ended in divorce and two didn't get built because the client had a heart attack. Wow. So, you know, I, but the thing is that really taught me how important my part is in a evaluating the clients, because you know, what's funny, what's also a bad client is not only someone who hasn't gotten their life together, but newlyweds, both of them say, what do you want whenever you want?

[00:58:42] David Applebaum: How do you know whatever you want? And they don't have yet a language that is th they each have languages that are their own, but they haven't figured out the third language. It is them together. And so I have to act as a psychologist and I have to, I can't tell you how many projects I've worked [00:59:00] on, where the husband wants one thing and the wife wants the other.

[00:59:03] David Applebaum: And my job is to say, okay, the two of you stop, take a breath. I believe that what he's saying, the essence of it is he wants more. Freedom to move around from this spot to the other while you want to emphasize this, I think I can give you what you both want by moving this refrigerator from this wall to this wall.

[00:59:27] David Applebaum: And I think you both get what you want. That's kind of what you're looking for in an architect is, you know, you're part psychologist, you're part mentor you're part, future teller you're you're you're and then you're an expert. It's, you know, look when you try and under bid and architect, what you don't understand is I had seven years of education.

[00:59:56] David Applebaum: I had three years of internship. I had [01:00:00] four days in 42 hours worth of exams. To take to get my license. Okay. There's continuing education, plus all these other soft bits like psychology and that, and it just makes it, we, you know, you're you, you're hiring, not somebody to draw plans. At least when you hire me, you're not hiring somebody to draw plans.

[01:00:26] David Applebaum: You're asking for me to interpret how you're going to live the rest of your life and make sure that it gets done in a way that you get a responsible job that is safe. That is at a fair price and makes you happy and makes your life better.

[01:00:45] Eric Goranson: David, on that, I think we should wrap because that is the perfect ending for this episode.

[01:00:51] Eric Goranson: Thank you, my friend for coming on.

[01:00:54] David Applebaum: Thank you. I just hope I sometimes it's like, we're like, what the hell did I just say? [01:01:00] The logic that this add mind is going all over the place with

[01:01:07] Eric Goranson: and make sure to check out David's new website@davidapplebaum.com.

[01:01:16] David Applebaum: Yeah, I got into several arguments with people that was, I hired people to do it and they I'd say, can you scoot this over to the left? Like, oh, come on. I was like, you know what, I'm just going to do it myself.

[01:01:25] Eric Goranson: And you did a great job. Thanks my friend. I'm still towing.

[01:01:30] David Applebaum: Hey, love you guys. Be well, everyone out there stay safe, stay healthy and try to live in beautiful light.

[01:01:38] David Applebaum: I'm Eric

[01:01:39] Eric Goranson: G and I'm Caroline B and you've been listening to

[01:01:42] Eric Goranson: around the house.