You're listening to gift biz unwrapped episode 199 I am a
firm believer in taking action before we feel a hundred percent
ready. Attention gifters,
bakers, crafters and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.
Whether you have an established business or looking to start one
now you are in the right place.
This is gift to biz unwrapped,
helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.
Join us for an episode packed full of invaluable guidance,
resources and the support you need to grow your gift biz.
Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.
Hi there,
it's Sue.
Thank you for joining me again on the gift biz on
wrapped podcast.
When I say secrets in the title of this show,
boy do I mean it.
Katie shares so much valuable information not only on how you
get placement in your local shops but also in larger multi
chains and potentially even the box stores.
We get into tactics point tips,
the value of a trade show everything.
Make sure to stay to the end because I have an
important message for you,
a little secret of my own,
but for now I want to get straight into the show.
Today I have joining us,
Katie hunt.
Katie is the founder of trade show bootcamp,
most of the proof to product podcast,
a business strategist and mentor to creative entrepreneurs.
She's helped more than 850 brands get their products on the
shelves of retail stores,
big and small.
Her client's products can be found in target,
Anthropologie, Nordstrom,
the container store and independent boutiques around the world.
Katie is a firm believer in professional development surrounding yourself with
community and pushing go even when you might not feel 100%
ready. I'm thinking we all can relate to that.
Welcome to the gift biz on rep podcast.
Katie, Thank you so much for having me.
Sue, it's a pleasure to be here.
I love when people put a really creative and have their
intro in cause it's perfect.
It already gives us a little bit of a feel For
who you are and your personality.
And yes,
well, if we all waited until everything was perfect,
we'd never get anywhere.
Right? Oh my gosh.
So true.
And you know,
we keep telling people,
you've got to just get started,
right? Yeah,
absolutely. So let's start with you in a little bit of
a different way.
And that is by having you describe yourself through a motivational
candle. So if you were to think of a handle and
envision what that would be for you,
Katie, what would the color be and what would be a
quote that would be on your candle?
So light blues or green colors.
I love the ocean,
I find it calming.
And so some sort of Aqua Marine color is where I
would, and the phrase actually ties into my bio a little
bit. It would say done is better than perfect,
and I'm sure that your listeners can relate to wanting everything
to be perfect before they put it out in the world.
But as my bio stated,
I am a firm believer in taking action before we feel
a hundred percent ready.
And by taking that imperfect action,
you're able to get your products and services out to market
and then make adjustments based upon how people respond.
And frankly,
this phrase done is better than perfect,
applies to my personal life as well as my business life.
I think that's kind of a characteristic of makers because when
you're making,
you have control over the finished product,
so you keep going and you keep going and you tweak.
We could sit behind our creative products forever and never get
them out.
And I did.
I looked back When I had my product based business and
there are things that I started to create that I never
actually put out into the world because it wasn't quite right
yet. And I look back and I think that It's such
a shame people would have loved that we would have needed
it. Katie,
I know.
What was I doing?
Well that was a perfect segue cause I would like to
do a little bit of the background of you and how
you've gotten to where you are today.
So why don't you take it away.
Sure. So in 2008 I was marrying my high school sweetheart
and I did my own wedding invitations mostly as a creative
outlet. I was working in the corporate world at the time
doing business development and marketing for attorneys.
And so nights and weekends I was dabbling in design basically.
And I really enjoyed creating these wedding invitations and playing with
pattern and texture and color and all these different things.
And I made our invitations.
And then I also made no cards,
personalized note cards,
stationary for our bridesmaids and some of the people that were
involved in our wedding and they were hit.
I think I started getting inquiries from friends and family that
wanted note cards and wedding invitations and all these things.
And so that was the end of October.
It was October,
2008 and I started up a little Etsy shop and just
thought, wow,
but what I have so far and see what happens,
and I got started getting orders and custom requests too from
people and my mom turned to me,
I think it was around Christmas time and she said,
you know,
if you're going to do this,
if you're really like interested in building a business here and
not just having this be a hobby,
maybe you should think about going to like a big trade
show, like the stationary show or something in New York.
And at the time,
I don't think I had a filter for risk,
at least not like I do now to some extent,
but I said,
yeah, let's do it.
And I was all in and so that May,
2019 I launched to the wholesale world in addition to having
my retail side of the business and I learned a lot
of hard lessons at that show.
I got shut down by the fire Marshall before the show
started because the materials we were using in our booth,
I didn't have the proper documentation to show they had been
fireproofed. My pricing was too high.
I didn't have enough product,
so there were some tough lessons I learned.
However, I walked away with some orders.
I walked away with a whole slew of contacts with people
to follow up with and people that I'm still in contact
with today.
I met a whole slew friends too,
so you know there are a lot of fits to being
there. It just did not go as I was planning Well,
but you knew for the next time,
right? Of course,
yes. I used to show at that trade show also the
national stationery show.
Yeah. I used to be there too.
In fact,
we were probably there together.
I'm thinking,
but Devin is pretty strict,
that's for sure.
That's so funny.
I, yeah,
I exhibited there 2009 til 2006 so 17 was my last
show. So At that specific,
yeah, I stopped doing that show a couple of years ago
also. So we pretty much overlap.
That's so funny.
We did.
I'm sad that we haven't met sooner than,
I know it's a huge show though.
I do still a lot of trade shows and so that
just goes to the point that you evolve,
you see what's working from past shows,
see where you make mistakes,
et cetera.
And then it doesn't mean that if it was a really
good show for you at one point it would still be.
Absolutely. So things have to evolve.
You have to continually analyze.
Absolutely. I tell that to all my students as well,
but so I came back from that show and I had
a whole bunch of colleagues that were like,
I'm considering doing the show too.
Like can you share with me what you learned?
And so I wrote a blog post with a friend of
mine. I think it was like five things I wish I
had known or I wish I had thought of before the
show. And it got a lot of traction and every year
as these types of shows started to roll around,
I would get emails,
tons of emails from people asking me the same types of
questions over and over,
how much did it really cost?
How much product did I need,
how do you get it all there?
So it was a mix of logistical questions as well as
some product questions or how to prepare your line for the
wholesale market type of stuff.
And I would sit there and thoughtfully write everybody back.
Now keep in mind this,
I was still in my day job.
I was still growing my small business.
I had a couple of small children at that point,
but I really was passionate about helping others that were working
alongside me.
Basically my colleagues.
I was passionate about working together to grow all of our
businesses. I strongly felt that if we shared our resources,
pulled our resources in terms of knowledge base and experience and
all of that,
we could grow faster together.
And so I started trade show bootcamp in 2011 and at
the beginning it was just for teleconference calls and I brought
in some buyer,
a sales rep,
other manufacturers,
and we talked about preparing for those types of shows.
And so that was where the company name was truly around
preparing for trade shows.
But as we got into it,
we realized that there people had a lot of questions before
trade shows.
Like their product line wasn't ready,
their pricing wasn't ready then and how their sales tools like
catalogs. And so we expanded our programming to include all of
that like before a show after the show.
And just really articulating that shows are just one step in
a marketing plan,
not the end all be all.
So anyhow,
Well I love this story Katie,
because it's showing a really good best practice in that you're
listening to what your audience is wanting from you.
Cause you probably would have never thought of going this direction,
but you listened to them and started developing it slowly over
time and look what it is now.
Yeah, I know.
It's insane.
Now we do conferences and we have larger courses that we
do and smaller courses that we do and I do one
on one coaching and so yeah,
I mean it's been amazing.
I feel very grateful that I've been allowed to play a
small part in helping my friends and colleagues grow their businesses
into the small empires that they are.
Perfect. Wonderful.
Well before we get into a couple of the topics that
we agreed we'd talk about today,
I would love your feedback in your opinion on building on
the side.
So you still had your full time job and you started
and built it up while you still had the comfort and
I'm going to say comfort,
I don't know if you liked what you were doing or
not, but it was a lot easier and a lot less
stressful because you had an income coming in.
Yeah, I will tell everyone that I know how difficult it
is to have a side gig while you're also running a
day job.
And perhaps in my case I had two children under two
years old at the time too,
so it was a lot.
But having that day job enabled me to grow my business
so much faster.
I was able to reinvest money from the business back into
the business because my day job was helping to pay for
a family needs.
And so when I talk about this,
I usually say,
you know,
I was able to do these shows,
these wholesale shows that cost tens of thousands of dollars sometimes
and I was able to build a new website that I
needed because I had the comfort of that day job to
pay for our family expenses and things.
Right, and your point is you actually were able to go
faster versus slower because you were able to make bigger moves.
Exactly. I don't think people think about it that way.
They think,
well, if it's on the side,
that means it's going to go much slower and that's not
necessarily the case because of what you just said.
You've got the money to invest.
Yeah. If I was having to use my business funds to
pay for our family to eat and our housing and all
that stuff,
it would have taken me a lot longer to build that
first website.
I wouldn't have been able to do the shows I wanted
to do,
so yes,
it did.
Definitely enabled me to grow faster.
I mean,
it was hard.
They splitting your time and splitting your energy.
It's very difficult,
but I kept telling myself,
this is not forever.
This is just for a short while,
and the goal is that I'm building this business to be
sustainable so that I can take this and make it my
full time gig.
And I did it took a while,
but Yeah.
Perfect. Well,
I'm thinking since I know my listeners pretty well,
that their ears probably perked up when we talked about some
of the larger chains that you've gotten your client's products into.
So I'd like to start there.
You were talking about target and anthropology,
container storage,
et cetera.
Let's talk a little bit about if you're thinking of someone
who's listening right now and they're just starting out.
I think one of the first questions would be,
wow, could my product even be an option for some of
those locations?
What would you say?
Well, let me back up real quick.
I did not like,
I'm not their agent,
so to speak,
to get them into the stores.
We are their educators and we provide them with all the
tools they need to build a strong wholesale foundation and then
they're the ones that got themselves into those stores.
But we do have a community that shares some mission guides
and things like that.
So we do have a lot of support in helping them
get their pitches and getting their products in front of those
stores. But I want to be clear that they got themselves
into those stores.
Sure. I wasn't their agent there or anything.
The first thing I would tell your audience is focus on
your product first.
So one of the things that I'm seeing is that people,
some of the 12 backs aren't,
they don't have a large enough product line or they don't
have a product line that has a unique aesthetic or style
to it.
It doesn't have an original point of view,
I guess is what I'm trying to say.
And so focusing on your product,
meaning making sure that you have enough of it,
making sure that your production costs are as low as possible
so that you can afford to give or sell your products
at the wholesale pricing,
making sure that your profit margins are where you want them
to be.
Making sure you've got all that stuff in the background,
really dialed in,
that you know you can create your products at a higher
volume too.
Because if your products are handmade,
for example,
and somebody comes to you and says,
I need a thousand by next week,
are you able to do that?
And if you can't,
that's okay too.
But knowing where your strengths are and knowing where you don't
have the capacity to fill that kind of thing,
it's really important that you know those things because then in
that case,
you'd either need to say no to the project at that
moment or you need to find a way around to deal
with that,
right? But really making sure you have a strong product line
that your pricing is in line.
Because here's the thing too.
I'm seeing a lot of people that don't really have the
margin to wholesale to some of these bigger chains and they
want to do anyhow just because they want to be in
target or whatever.
Cause it's an ego thing.
Exactly. Because it's an exciting thing.
It's an ego thing,
but it's,
they get to say they're in target,
which is awesome,
but the reality is if you're not making money on the
deal, you shouldn't be doing it.
And I don't mean to sound materialistic or anything,
but you're running a business and your business is there to
make a profit and if your product,
your pricing and your production costs,
if the numbers don't make sense,
you shouldn't be trying to do that type of sales.
Well, and I would even suggest that getting into the whole
wholesale realm in the first place is a whole different strategy
versus just selling directly and give biz listeners.
We talked about this in depth in an episode a little
bit back.
I'll connect it in the show notes.
It was with Bob Hurley and we got into all of
the wholesale details.
Some of the things that we don't need to repeat here,
Katie, because I know there's so much more information to share,
so you guys referenced back to that show and then let's
continue talking about this too.
So clearly the product needs to be unique because they're not
looking for more of the same,
right? No,
they're not.
These big chains too.
They're looking at numbers.
They're looking at profit margin as well.
Many of them will ask for discounts below what your wholesale
pricing is.
So you need to stand firm in knowing your numbers and
knowing what you'll say yes to and being okay with saying
no if something doesn't work.
As I mentioned earlier,
the other thing is that fulfillment process,
just knowing whether or not you can get an order out
in a timely fashion with the demands of what these stores
are looking for.
I don't want people to think,
Oh, they came to me on Friday and they want something
on Monday.
That's not the case.
And typically there's a longer lead time for the big box
stores. They have a submission process in which everything is due
by a certain date.
They review it,
a group,
they'd make their buying decisions and then they have longer lead
buying cycles,
but some of them are placing orders year round.
It just kinda depends.
Everything's different,
but it is a different animal than the smaller wholesale accounts
for sure.
What do you think about someone who's interested in doing both?
Oh, I think you absolutely should.
Yeah, I think you absolutely should.
In fact,
I've seen some people that put all their time and effort
into the big box stores,
but that's risky too because what if they stop ordering?
Then your business is totally hinging on those stores.
I think you need to diversify and I think frankly sometimes
the smaller stores are better customers.
They order more regularly,
more steadily,
but they may be smaller orders,
but I think you should absolutely be looking at both the
independent shops as well as big box stores.
And I would also encourage people start with the independence because
business is built on relationships and you will have a much
easier time building relationships with the smaller independent shops.
And the small independent shops are the bread and butter for
most of my clients.
And then the big box stores are kind of an added
layer that they start to pursue after they've been wholesaling for
a little bit.
Right. So you kind of step it up then.
Yeah. Okay.
So if someone has covered all of this,
they have something that's very unique.
They have several lines.
So there's some depth to what they can offer.
They feel like their pricing is in place and they're now
not producing it just themselves,
but their manufacturing or some combination thereof where they feel that
they would be able to fulfill those large orders.
So they're all set,
they're all ready.
And I agree with you.
Let's more talk about getting into the boutiques then.
Bigger box locations,
but, so how would they approach somebody?
Yeah, so when I work with my clients,
we talk about things from two directions.
We talk about when retailers approach them,
maybe they find them on Instagram or something,
they find the maker on Instagram or Facebook or wherever it
might be.
And then there's a strategy if you're reaching out cold these
different stores.
And so if you're reaching out cool to these different stores,
I definitely recommend you send an email to start.
I recommend it tiered approach.
So let me walk you through what that tiered approach looks
like. I recommend you start with an email that is very
brief and to the point and you have a link to
your catalog in there and it has a little bit of
a description about what your company does,
what you sell and why their store would benefit from selling
your products.
Now one thing I like to help people,
don't say my stuff would be a great fit for your
store and leave it at that.
Be more specific.
Do your homework on the store and find out what other
brands they're carrying,
what other products they're carrying,
and explain why you think that would be a good fit.
Talk about the type of customer that purchases your products and
find out who their customers are as best you can through
online searching,
but start with an email.
So let them know who you are,
include a link to your catalog and maybe even include a
couple of images in that email from there.
And I would also ask a question in that first email
ask if that you could send them a sample packet.
No, it depends on what your products are.
Obviously if you're making huge chandelier's,
you can't say a sample of that.
But if you are making something where you could send a
sample, if they respond and say,
yes, I'd love to see this in person and then drop
a in the mail.
And it doesn't have to be a big package.
It could simply be a sample or to a printed catalog.
And then a handwritten note from you that just says you're
excited about the possibilities of working with them and give them
details as to how to order.
Say, you know the information's in the catalog.
If you'd like to place an order,
here's how to do it.
And so you definitely want to have a call to action
in each of your outreaches.
You want to be adding value every time you reach out
to a shop owner.
They're very busy people like all of us.
So you want to make it very simple and easy for
them to place an order with you.
So you're sending these emails to the shop owner or in
multiple locations they might have buyers.
Yeah. Most of the time though,
in the independent boutiques,
the shop owners,
the one that's buying,
so you'll want to find the buyer or the shop owner
because those are the people that are going to make the
buying decisions.
And usually you can kind of track down some of that
information online.
LinkedIn is a really good place to find out who buyers
are for different stores too.
But you could also call the store.
I mean you could call and say,
Hey, I'm a brand that's interested in working with you guys.
Is there somebody I could direct this email to?
And most of the time they'll give you the email,
the person you need to contact.
Perfect. And just to set expectations properly.
Is it usually a multi back and forth relationship like you,
you make your introduction,
you give them information and then you talk back and forth
a few times before something actually happens.
It's different for everybody.
I mean sometimes you'll hear a cricket so you'll send that
email and you won't hear back at all.
But I would encourage people not to give up and to
continue unless you get a hard no from people and they
think it's not a good fit,
continue to follow up with them.
So after you send the package,
I would send a follow up email,
there will be back and forth.
So to your point,
yes and you want the back and forth because the back
and forth is how you're going to create a relationship with
this person and get to know them better and know what
their needs are so that you can help to fulfill those
needs. But after you send that package,
send a followup email and then you start to engage with
them on social media and start to build a relationship elsewhere.
You can also at some point ask them,
can I add you to our email list?
And if they say yes to that,
you can send them your new release emails,
your bestseller emails.
There's lots of different emails that you can do to engage
with them and still add value.
Perfect. Okay,
wonderful. So let's say all has gone well.
They've placed their first order.
So your product is now in their shop.
And I would imagine,
you know all this work to getting product placement.
You don't just want a one time order.
So what would you do to follow up and ensure that
you're going to get subsequent orders?
That's a great question.
So that's where nurturing them is a big part of this.
So I usually recommend that we set up a nurture sequence.
So when somebody places an order from you,
you send them a set of emails.
That kind of explains,
again, if you haven't already introduced yourself,
like who we are,
what we do,
how often we're releasing new products.
It's a chance to tell what you're going to do.
Wholesale shows or craft shows or anything like that where people
can see your products in real life,
or if you work with sales reps,
that's a good time for you to explain who they can
work with there.
But it's basically an onboarding series of emails where you're just
kind of letting them know the lay of the land and
you're kind of warming them up and building that relationship.
Now they've already purchased from you,
but you want them to know you and trust you so
that they purchase again from you.
So part of it's marketing,
but part of it's just connecting with them.
The other thing I would tell you too is be professional
at all levels.
So if they place that order,
make sure that you're getting it out the door on time,
that there's no errors in your order.
So on the fulfillment side of things,
make sure you're putting your best foot forward there as well.
I think it's just about continuing to build that relationship in
ways that feel organic and authentic to you,
which I know sounds,
it's not concrete advice,
but really it's connecting with them on social media.
It's emailing them when you have something to say,
not just because,
and making sure that you're filling their order in the best
way possible.
Yeah, and I think having that type of contact and multiple
touch points,
if there were issues like let's say the product isn't moving
really well in the store or there's something else that you
can do to enhance the likelihood that it's going to be
a success and you'll get repeat business.
I don't know that you have to come right out and
say, Hey,
how's the product doing?
But in you're in contact,
you're leaving an opportunity for them to tell you what's going
on. Right.
You're leaving the door open for them to express any concerns
or any of that.
The other thing is,
I used to ask my buyers all the time,
especially if I was meeting them in person at a show,
I'd say,
how do you like to be contacted?
Some people love the phone,
some people hate the phone,
nobody wants anyone showing up unsolicited in the shop.
There's different things that people like and don't like and that's
going to be different for every buyer.
So in so much that you can ask,
do you like receiving emails?
Do you prefer a phone call?
How do you like to communicate?
If there's issues with your order opening that door,
it takes it to another level of care.
Totally, and it's so challenging.
I'd say nowadays because people now are doing Facebook messaging and
messaging through LinkedIn and the thing that I would suggest,
and Katie tell me how you feel about this is you
really need to try and blend with what your client's preferred
mode is.
Not to say,
Oh well we do email so you know,
respond to emails.
You need to go and match what they like to do
to your point of their preference.
Yeah, no,
I agree with you.
I will say it is hard to keep up with all
of the places I agree with you there,
but it's an educational piece for you too,
right? If you start to see that more and more of
your clients are reaching out to you on Facebook messenger,
well maybe you should be doing like messenger bots or something
like that to reach your audience.
Yeah, it's a good point.
If you see everyone's connecting with you on Instagram and that's
where they're learning about your products,
well then you should put more time and effort into your
marketing on Instagram too.
So I think asking open ended questions of your buyers is
a really great way to just get Intel about how they
want to be communicated with and learn about new products.
But yes,
it goes back to customer service,
it goes back to marketing,
it goes back to just building those relationships.
Right? Absolutely.
So let's move on and talk a little bit about community
and the importance of surrounding yourself with community.
But let's start with a definition of community.
Are you talking about clients?
Are you talking about support community?
Both. For me,
I'm talking about people that understand and get what you're doing.
So in my mind,
it's colleagues,
it's mentors,
it's everyone that's like on equal with you as well as
above and beyond you.
And when,
I mean above and beyond,
I don't mean to create hierarchies here,
but there's people that have been doing business a lot longer
than I have and there's people that have been doing business
for a shorter amount of time.
And so I think it's really important to surround yourself with
people from all different perspectives because they're going to offer different
points of view on what you're doing and they're going to
have different experiences to share.
So our community is pretty much,
we've coached over 850 brands at this point and many of
them are in a private Facebook group.
I mean it's a very active group and everyday we're sharing
resources and experiences and people are learning from people of all
levels. Basically those just starting out as well as those that
have been doing it for 10 plus years.
It's a good point because I think a lot of people
don't recognize the fact that even if someone is just starting
out, they have a whole background of things that they know
and behind them.
So they might have resources,
they may have connections,
you just never know what they might have that you could
use. Right.
And the fact of the matter is we are all constantly
learning, right?
It doesn't matter how long we've been doing this.
There's always more to learn.
There's always things that we could be doing better.
There's things that we could be doing stronger.
And I agree with you,
we all have a unique background,
whether it was corporate jobs or things we were doing before
this business and there's just so much we can learn from
one another.
So community to me is people doing similar things with likeminded
ideas and goals and who also have the same mentality around
helping each other that are on the same page of like
I give as much as I get basically.
Right. That is an important point that when you go into
a community,
just the fact that you should be also receiving and giving
at the same time.
Absolutely. So you see so many people come in and you
don't go and try and to sell yourself.
You don't go in there to just be a platform for
trying to attract sales.
Right. Especially if there are people who are also makers.
You're all there to develop your business.
You're not necessarily there to sell to each other.
Right? Yeah.
I get a lot of questions like all of your customers.
Basically all my clients are competitors essentially because they're selling similar
types of products to the same types of markets and I
said, yeah,
but here's the thing.
You may give 10 different designers instructions to design something with
polka dots,
let's just say,
and they're going to come back to you with totally,
completely different ideas and concepts with that.
And so yes,
we all might be competing for similar market share,
but at the same time we're doing it different.
Our products are different.
The way we take our products to market is different.
The way we run our businesses is different.
And so there's no harm in sharing what we know because
even if somebody were to take a similar idea to what
I was doing,
they would do it differently because they are not me.
I agree with that.
And I'll extend that even to the consumer level because if
you wear earrings,
you just don't wear one style of your rings,
Right? You probably wear multiple styles,
so even if you have the same audience,
you both have opportunity to sell to them.
Absolutely. And why will we hinder ourselves by not sharing what
we know?
Because going back to what we talked about earlier of how
the day job,
kind of fast forward to the business,
if I can learn from somebody that has been in my
shoes before and here,
what went well and what didn't go well,
that is going to fast forward my business.
I'm going to avoid mistakes.
I mean obviously I'm going to make my own mistakes in
different ways,
but at the same time it's very helpful to learn from
others. The other thing I will say about community is,
so I've got my community of colleagues under my business trade
show bootcamp,
which is amazing,
but I also have other communities that I lean on.
So I have peer groups of mastermind groups that I'm involved
in and it's all peer led.
I've worked with coaches that have mastermind too where I've done
paid mastermind groups,
so there's things like that that are option for people,
but ultimately find some mentors,
find some people that are doing similar things to you and
lean on each other.
Totally agree with you there and I just want to go
back one more time and underline this point that you emphasize
Katie, which is when you try and keep what you're doing
so close under your vest and not share with anybody,
you're not going to advance as quickly.
And I do see that in the maker community where people,
they're so afraid that someone's going to steal their idea or
copy them or whatever it is,
but the fact is,
as creators,
everyone is going to have a different twist.
This is exactly what you've been saying,
Katie, and it's also not a nice mental state to be
in where you're always feeling like you're protecting yourself.
That's just not a good vibe to work under.
No, not at all.
And I get it.
I've worked with a lot of clients who have had their
ideas modified or stolen or whatever you want to call it
and it stinks.
It's a stinky place to be in,
but if we don't put stuff out in the world,
we're not going to see the joy that we see when
people are using our products or you know,
leveraging our services or whatever it is.
So we can't let that fear hold us back.
We need to just continue to put stuff out in the
world and connect with others that are doing what we're doing.
I wasn't even thinking of taking the conversation this angle,
but I'm going to go with it for now.
And that is,
yes, products can be the same.
Let's say in the very worst case scenario,
someone we've been talking to,
earrings, I brought that up so let's just stick with that.
But let's say someone got the exact material,
knew the techniques and produce the exact same earrings and started
selling them first.
That's not really that nice,
but second,
you still have different communities and where I'm going with all
of this is then you start doing the personal overlay as
the creator.
So I'm talking to our listeners now as a creator,
who are you by personality?
What's the story behind why you started the business?
All of those types of things that you represent on social
media. Maybe you do some lives,
it's on your about page.
You're attracting a tribe because of who you are,
not only because of the product that you make.
I'm over here shaking my head yes violently.
I agree with you.
It's about your story.
It's about your why,
why you created this business,
why you created that product to begin with.
And I do truly honestly think that the original makers of
things rise to the top and anyone that's trying to copy
people know,
people can see right through it.
And to your point,
the copycats don't have that story alignment that you,
when you're creating everything And more than likely it's a money
play for them.
Yeah. If they're copying,
they're not creating and presenting their own products to the market,
they'll probably be very short-lived.
Anyway, I only wanted,
I know we spent a lot of time on this point,
but I just really want to drive it home to everybody
that that's not the thing to worry about.
It's much better to focus on all of the things that
Katie was talking about in the beginning.
If you want to go the wholesale route,
focus on advancing your business,
not looking behind it,
who's trying to follow in your tracks.
Absolutely. It's too distracting.
We can't keep up with what everyone else is doing.
It's going to pull our focus and it's going to hinder
us from our own personal growth and our business and so
yeah, definitely be keep your eyes forward and keep moving forward
and if stuff like that happens to you,
I'm so sorry because it really does stink when that kind
of stuff happens,
but at the same time keep pushing yourself forward cause you're
doing amazing,
unique things and that people want to replicate.
So worth taking the conversation in the direction that we just
did. I think this is a great place right now to
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Let's talk a little bit about advice you would have for
somebody who's just,
and are we talking just trade shows or are we also
talking local craft shows?
We don't talk about craft shows too much in our programming.
It's mainly wholesale shows.
Okay. The big shows where you're really looking at getting the
eyes of these larger brands.
Yeah, so our alumni are doing stationary shows I mentioned,
but they're also doing New York now,
Atlanta Mart,
Dallas gift,
Las Vegas.
We've got people doing stuff in Toronto or even talk to
her in London.
So yeah,
there was like bigger shows elsewhere where it's a trade show.
Perfect. So someone who's maybe been working the local shows,
they've gotten feedback on their product,
they've built up enough and now they're looking at entering into
the wholesale market and considering going to some of those shows,
it's a different audience because a lot of the craft shows
are consumer based.
Now you're going to a buyer show.
What is the difference?
Can you give us like maybe the top three things that
are different in preparation?
Not actually when you're there,
but in preparation?
Yeah, sure.
So one thing,
when you're getting ready for craft shows,
you're trying to amass and inventory,
right? Because you're actually,
it's a cash and carry show and people are giving you
cash at the show and walking away with your product at
wholesale shows you are not collecting money at the shows and
you're not having to bring a huge inventory products,
you're bringing at least,
well, I usually recommend three to four of every skew that
you sell so that people can see stuff,
but they're just placing orders.
They're looking at your line at the wholesale shows and they're
writing on an order form what they would like to ship
at a later date.
So in terms of where your time is spent,
I know a lot of people in my community that are
doing craft shows,
they spend a lot of time packaging up products and determining
how much inventory to bring to craft shows.
You don't necessarily need to be spending time on that for
wholesale shows.
The another thing is you need to be doing a lot
of marketing leading up to a wholesale show.
I talk about how your booth number edit wholesale trade show
is your address and you need to be telling people where
you are and getting them to come visit your address.
And I don't know that that's something a lot of people,
I know people are talking about the craft shows they will
be at before a craft show,
but I don't know that it's as important for them.
And you can disagree with me here.
No, I agree with you Katie.
I agree with that.
Totally. So for the wholesale shows,
it's really important that you get out on social media and
your profile.
You're sending out mailers,
you're sending out emails,
letting people know I'm going to be at the show,
but specifically I'm going to be at this booth number.
Whereas it crashes.
I think it's more of the messaging is more we'll be
at the show,
come visit us,
and you don't necessarily know your placement or where you'll be,
so that's something ahead of time.
I think a lot of the shows also,
as I'm thinking of the ones I go to,
when you actually apply,
there are certain categories that you say you want to be
in when you're in the general brochure,
and so that's helpful to really make sure you select the
appropriate categories.
Would you say they're more is better or less just to
have a couple of really strong ones or like to fit
every single category your product could possibly be in?
I would do smaller number,
maybe three or four at the most.
Okay. Yeah.
That way you're going to draw on the buyer.
It doesn't look like you're trying to attract all buyers.
You're trying to attract very specific,
yeah. Buyers.
And then another question,
I know that I've seen it from both ends when I'm
at a show and then I'm also,
cause I'll do both.
I'll be at a show as a consumer and then also
as an exhibitor and I know that we can get the
lists for a lot of the shows.
They'll tell us who the attendees are so that you can
mail to them beforehand.
And I'll get emails from people that don't relate in any
way to anything.
I'm there for,
Yes, I'm laughing over here because yes.
Okay. So this is something else that happens before the show
that we should mention.
Thank you for bringing this up.
So first of all,
I will tell you right now,
please do not buy an in the shows will probably get
mad at me for this,
but please do not buy any lists that the shows offered
to sell you,
whether it's the show selling it or you'll often get emails
from people.
If you're an exhibitor,
you'll get emails from people that are not even tied to
the show,
that are willing to offering to sell you a list and
they're reselling an oldest to be honest.
But I think the best way to articulate this is to
tell you a story.
That's okay.
Yes. One of my dear friends,
Susan crop,
she used to own a store called trips and chairs in
Oklahoma and Susan and her daughter,
Sammy ran the store and every year they would go to
New York for the stationary show and there she had another
daughter. Her name was Eloise.
Eloise lived in New York city and so when her mom
and her sister would come to New York to go to
the show,
her mom would get Louis a badge for the show so
that she could tag along and spend the day with her
mom and her sister.
Now Eloise is not tied to the store.
She's not buying for the store,
but she was registered in the show directory as a buyer
because her mom needed to get her a badge for the
show. And that happens a lot.
It happens a lot.
It happens even on the exhibitor side.
If I'm bringing in my sister to help me in my
booth, you know I'm going to get our badge.
And so my point is Eloise is now listed on this
big list that people are selling as a buyer for the
store trips and cheers when in fact she has no relation
to like she's not a decision maker for the store.
And so every year Susan would get mailers addressed to Eloise
and she knew off the bat these people had not done
their homework.
She knew that they were being pulled from a list and
being sent a mass mailer.
Basically what I'd like to tell your audience is those lists
are often outdated and so I really highly encourage you to
build your own list and that is going to take a
lot of digging.
It's going to take a lot of just Google searching and
checking on people's social media feeds and looking at their website
and looking at LinkedIn profiles and it takes a lot of
work to build that mailing list.
But what I would like to encourage you is it's quality
over quantity.
I would much rather you have a mailing list of 50
stores that are highly tailored and relevant for the products that
you're selling.
Then a list of 2000 people to contact.
I would like you to start small and it will grow
over time as you start to connect with more people at
shows or over social media or whatever it might be.
Absolutely. Yes.
Okay, wonderful.
And I also want to talk about this really quickly cause
I think this is a difference between craft shows and buy
or trade show.
And that is as we're talking about developing email lists and
being very selective.
To your point when you're at trade shows,
I often talk with,
and we've talked about this gift biz listeners before too,
is when you're at craft shows,
you know you want to be collecting email addresses at every
turn because they're potential customers for you.
Remember that's a consumer show when you get over onto the
trade show floor.
So a buyer floor and Katie,
I'm gonna let you answer this question.
You know how they'll have the scanners and you have the
badges. So to your point about Eloise,
do you want to be scanning every single person who comes
by the booth or would you rather be qualitative versus quantitative
then too?
So when you're face to face with people,
I encourage you to have a conversation as best you can
rather than just scan people all the time.
So most of the time if people are not qualified buyers,
I'm sure Eloise walked around the show and told people,
Oh, I'm not actually a buyer.
So people like deterring people from scanning a badge or taking
a photo of her badge or anything like that.
But I would encourage you to try to take as much
information as you can at the shows too similar to the
consumer shows.
But that's where you then need to take notes.
So one of my strategies here is I tell people,
and this is actually something Jen and Lisa from farewell Paperie
suggested and I had done something similar.
So now we've kind of wrapped it into something we teach
people, but basically get a notebook and staple any business cards
that you get.
And a lot of our people don't use the scanners because
it's another expense.
So this is like a real simple way to do things.
But you could also do the scanners if you want,
but get a notebook and get business cards from people or
take photos of their badges if you need to.
And then in between people coming in the booth,
write down everything you can think of about this person.
So what were they,
did they have interesting set of glasses?
Did you talk about their dog?
What questions did you ask them and what were their answers?
What products were they looking at and curious about?
Did they ask for you to send something afterwards?
If so,
make sure to note that down so you can follow up
with them.
But yeah,
I personally going and circling back to your original question,
I personally think you need to leverage that FaceTime as much
as possible and connect with as many people as possible.
And I think it's more about the conversations than it is
about scanning their badges.
But I do encourage you to get business cards and scan
badges and then you can decide later whether or not they
would be a good fit for you.
Perfect. Yeah.
And I'll say,
I mean I'll even go so far as to put notes
on the back of a card if I need to,
but that point about a notebook is so good because I
know you'll see and have really great people coming by your
booth the first day and you think,
Oh that was so great.
I'm going to remember exactly the conversation by day three.
Doesn't matter how,
I don't remember the details cause there's just so much going
on at a show.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I did see what I have to tell you,
I found a bag of business cards the other day.
I was cleaning up my office and it was from 2010
stationary show and all these business cards and they had notes
on the back and I had taken action when I got
home but I just had to laugh that they were still
sitting in a bag.
Whereas once they started doing the notebooks it just was easier
to manage.
Nothing got lost in the shuffle and there was more space
steroid nodes too.
Right? Absolutely.
And your point of following up afterwards if you've committed and
promised to get something,
Oh my gosh,
it's a huge heads up to everybody because so many people
don't. They have the full intent at the show but either
they don't take the proper notes,
they don't follow up with the business cards.
So if you do have some type of followup and you
actually do that,
you are way ahead.
Oh, I a hundred percent agree with you.
And I have two things to say about followups that are
really important.
It doesn't matter how late you follow up,
like ideally like you to follow up a couple of weeks
after the show and give them everything that they asked for.
Or if they didn't ask for anything specific,
just follow up and remind them who you are and give
them a digital catalog and things like that.
But I had somebody that sent a followup.
It was amaze show.
She sent the fob in August and it was like really
well done and she was worried that it was going to
be too late and people were going to kind of roll
their eyes at it.
But the fact of the matter is you met these people
and you want to continue that relationship so it's never too
late to follow up.
Even if you feel ashamed that you didn't get things out
straight away or on a timeline that you had said like,
just do it.
Just continue to follow up.
That's a good point.
We were talking earlier about people copying you in all this
is another way you set yourself apart when you're meeting people
face to face,
and then what actions do you take afterwards?
You're separating yourself from other people,
you're more professional,
et cetera.
Absolutely. I agree with you.
Any final comments on trade shows before we start to wind
down here?
I do think people equate trade shows to launching to the
wholesale market.
And I just want to dispel that as a myth.
There's a lot of people that are launching a wholesale and
doing that for a few years before they ever do a
wholesale show.
And that's really the route I would encourage you to do.
I would like for to kind of get your systems in
place around sales and fulfillment and outreach to stores.
And I jumped at first in and I made it work.
But at the same time,
I think you don't have to do it that way.
It's not the only way.
There's not just one way to launch to the wholesale market.
And so I just wanna encourage people to do what's right
for them,
their timeline,
their budgets,
all of that.
Perfect. Well now I have a question for you that I
don't know the answer to.
So I'm really curious.
I'm putting myself now as one of your clients.
Okay. So I know at trade shows that there are a
lot of smaller boutiques who also go,
let's continue with the stationary show.
Right. I have a very close friend who's actually going to
be on the podcast in a few weeks if I can
ever get her to do it.
She's been in business for 35 years.
She has been at that stationary show ever since.
The stationary show probably ever started,
but she's a small one person boutique,
very successful.
And so I could see somebody who's just starting out at
a trade show,
a buyer show,
maybe you know,
their goal is,
you know,
I want to get into maybe three boutiques and get a
feel for how this works and if this is what I
want to do.
Is that a good approach for someone who's just starting out?
Oh yeah,
Absolutely. I would tell people so if you don't have the
money or the time or the energy to do a wholesale
show and wholesale shows are a big deal.
I mean our alumni spend on average seven to $10,000
to do the national stationery show and it's more for shows
like New York now,
but I would strongly encourage you to create kind of a
plan for outreach to different boutiques and how you're going to
build relationships with the smaller boutiques.
Whether you start with local shops that you can maybe meet
with people in person.
I don't show up unannounced,
but maybe you can set an appointment or something like that,
but build those relationships and start small because you will learn
a lot.
Now the one caveat to this though is every buyer is
different. How they like to be communicated with is different.
How their opinion of your products is going to be different.
Some person might like something in a certain sense of candle
and some people might like it in a different sense,
so you do have to weigh the feedback you get,
not individually I guess is what I'm trying to say.
You want to take collective feedback rather than just one person's
point of view.
But I think there's a lot that can be done on
a smaller scale level by reaching out to independent boutiques and
trying to build relationships one-on-one,
especially when you're starting And talking about relationships.
And I think we can end this at this point,
but I also feel that in a lot of those bigger
shows, they have socials,
they have exhibitor get togethers,
they have community breakfasts,
there's an association that's connected with a show.
There are other things besides just the trade show hours,
there's classes,
there's all of that.
And the more interactive,
the more people you can meet and get to know.
You may find that perfect store owner who never ever goes
by your booth,
but you sit with them at breakfast for the initial keynote
welcome or something.
Yeah. And the other thing is Ask a ton of questions.
When you're talking to people,
you ask what they're looking for in a show.
Ask what their needs are.
I had somebody telling me They really needed a gift wrap
and that was something I didn't offer.
And so I walked them across the aisle to one of
my good friends who carried beautiful gift wrap and I said,
this is somebody you got to talk to.
And yes,
I walked that prison out of my booth into somebody else's
booth. But eventually they came back and ordered from me and
they were just appreciative because I helped them solve a problem.
Getting back to the point of not being worried about just
yourself, but the giving.
Yeah. So you're a professional in many different industries and the
trade show and all of that.
Where do you go to stay informed in your field?
Yeah, so I'm involved in some mastermind communities where it's people
from different industries.
And so now I have my own little community of people
and lean on where we share resources and information and strategies
and things like this.
And because they're in a different industry than I am,
I feel like we're leveraging different tools and things than each
other. And so that has been very eyeopening for me.
But in terms of other resources,
there's a few books that I loved and I constantly recommend
and even gift to my team.
One of them is anything you want by Derek Sievers.
It's about building a business that is meaningful to you and
on your own terms.
And it's just about how we're in control really of making
this business in this life what we want.
And I really encourage entrepreneurs to read that because I think
sometimes it's easy to forget that we set the rules for
what we're doing and we can build this business however we
want to fit our lives.
And so that's one of the books I look at.
Another one is StoryBrand by Donald Miller.
And I think customers relate so much to story.
They want to,
to your point earlier in the interview,
they want to hear the story behind your business,
how you got started.
They want to hear what inspired you to create your products.
So I just love the idea of how he talks about
creating a story for everything you're selling and for your brand.
And so that's a really great book.
If people haven't read that or listen to his audio version.
Yeah. Have you heard him speak in person?
I have.
He's pretty incredible.
I wonder if he has a YouTube video up.
I bet you he does too.
As a source for our listeners.
No, he has,
it's like a three day video series or a five day
video series.
I can't recall exactly the details,
but it was really empowering and it was really cool.
And that was on his website?
I believe so.
I'm sure there's some free,
he has a podcast as well so you could listen to
him there.
Well there you go.
Yeah, lots of places.
Yeah. But Donald Miller is definitely someone to catch up with
and stories for sure.
You're just like you were telling your story,
you're able to demonstrate a point so much easier through stories.
It's relatable.
Right? Totally relatable.
And I also,
this whole idea of building a business that you want is
something that you kind of get on a little bit of
uncomfortable territory when you make a transition into wholesale because it
is a whole different animal.
And I've seen people who get there and they don't like
it. Entering in with your eyes wide open is really important.
You go from being the creator and enjoying hands on and
all of that to then running a team and mass producing
and dealing with factories to go to two different extremes.
So you really have to think through what your life would
look like on the other end.
Don't just jump in blindly.
Absolutely. And That's really why I started.
But the teaching that we're teaching,
we have people come to our paper camp program,
which is everything about selling wholesale and doing shows.
And we have people walk away saying,
you know what,
I want to wholesale,
but I don't want to do shows or wholesale is not
for me.
Shows are not for me.
And I know that sounds like something I'd be disappointed in.
But the fact of the matter is I'm elated because I
would rather they spend two days with us and hear what's
involved and then make decisions,
educated decisions for themselves based upon what they now know.
Absolutely. So what would you say to the person who's out
here who's heard this gets a feel for the fact that
a show could be something good for them?
What are their next steps?
If they're starting to think about,
okay, maybe 2019 is the time for me to try a
trade show.
I would definitely tell them to research the different shows that
are out there and we have some resources available at our
website, trade show camp.com
if you're interested in that,
but it's important that you find a show where the buyers
are your types of buyers.
So what you can do this a couple of ways.
You can Google different shows and find out where different shows
are or you could talk to some buyers if you're already
working with the wholesale buyers and see what shows they're attending.
The other thing is look at shows that are local to
you because that'll be easier for you logistics wise.
But basically the first step would be figuring out what show
you want to do and then making sure that you've got
the time to dedicate to getting ready and the budget to
allocate towards it.
So figuring out what shows right for you,
making sure you've got your ducks in a row,
all your wholesale tools,
you need a catalog,
you need to make sure you've got wholesale terms and conditions
and go from there.
But your product,
your sales tools,
figuring out what show and then just diving in.
And we do have a course called the booth blueprint,
which kind of walks you through how to create your booth
and all the different aspects that go into it.
Walls, lighting,
signage, flooring,
all of it.
So if they needed help in that aspect,
we could definitely help them there too.
And that's at the booth,
blueprint.com Perfect.
Wonderful. Okay,
so now as we're circling and finishing up here,
I would like to offer you to dare to dream.
I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.
It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.
So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable
Heights that you would wish to obtain.
So please accept this gift and open it in our presence.
Katie, what is inside your box?
So there's two things in my mind that's loud.
You may have to,
so the first thing is I have four small children,
so I would definitely dream for unlimited,
uninterrupted sleep,
which I know is silly.
It's in your future somewhere Too soon,
too soon.
But for my business,
I think I would like to write a book one day
that really highlights not only my business journey,
but also our alumni and our community members and how they've
built their businesses.
So it would be similar to my podcast,
proof to product,
but in a storytelling format rather than an interview format.
So that is something on the longterm horizon that I'd like
to do.
Well, you know with self publishing now it's more juvenile than
ever. True.
Yeah. My book just came out last year and that was
the route to go for sure and it started with the
idea Katie,
so that's going to be an easy one.
It's just a matter of what you do it.
That's encouraging to hear.
So thank you.
It's easy but it is time consuming.
I think that's where I'm at too right now.
Time feels so stretched.
Right, for sure.
Well thank you so much.
I really am thrilled with the topics that we touched on
here and you gave some great depth and some great detail
and some really good understanding behind all of this,
so thank you so much.
I appreciate your taking the time today.
Thank you for having me.
See this was a lot of fun,
So I'm usually pretty good at keeping secrets,
but I'm spilling the beans.
I can't help it.
I'm so excited.
I just want to tell you guys what I've been working
on over the last few months.
It's been a little bit of a secret project because I
wasn't sure exactly what the timing was going to look like
on it,
but I can't wait.
I have to share with you my secret.
Many of you have been following me for a while.
Know that I wrote a book that came out last may.
It's called maker to master,
but that's not what this is about.
Although it spins off a similar concept.
When I was getting serious about writing that book,
there were actually two books that I had in my mind.
One was maker to master and that truth be told was
the harder one to do,
but I also was really interested in writing a book that
was an inspirational book kind of inspiration a day.
I know you've seen those out there where it's 365 inspiring
thoughts for your year or something like that.
I think very often we get defeated by our own self-talk
and we also sway away from core solid business growth values
because there's a new social media site that's available or other
things come up that take our mind off of the really
important things that we need to grow our business.
As things happen.
My idea continued to evolve and I came up with the
idea of instead of doing a 365 inspiring tips type book,
it would be way more helpful for you if it was
included in some type of a planner so that every day
when you're planning out your day,
you'd also then see a tip.
If I look at how I work with things,
I don't know if I would have a book on the
side of my desk and every day look at one day's
inspiration and then another day's inspiration.
Way better to have everything in one place.
Consequently, I have created a planner.
It's called inspired a daily planner specifically for you,
our wonderful community of gifters,
bakers, crafters and makers.
I'll be sharing more in the upcoming days,
but let me give you a few highlights here.
One of the cool things about this planner is you can
start any month of the year.
Have you ever been like me?
Where all of a sudden in may you decide I want
to start doing things different.
I want to get myself really organized,
but then you go to find a planner and they either
start in September going into the next year or do you
have to buy a year and all the prior months of
the year are useless for you because you're already in may
with this planner.
You can start any time.
If you're listening to this announcement in January,
you can start it right away.
If you're hearing this in may,
you can use this planner starting in may.
It has monthly and daily layout,
so you'll be able to keep yourself really organized and special
life enhancing sections.
More on that later.
It also includes what I've been talking about earlier and the
reason I changed this from a book to a planner and
that is daily inspiration things that you need to be telling
yourself, affirmations to get in the right mindset as the owner
of your business.
Also, business tips and ideas.
Some of them you're going to read and you're like,
yep, got it,
it's covered,
and then others might give you some pause ideas of things
you might want to implement into your business to further either
solidify or grow what you already have going.
That's all I'm going to share with you right now,
but I will tell you that we are just weeks away
from getting this out to you.
I'm going to do a limited first run and if you
want to be one of the first ones to know when
it's available,
jump over to gift biz unwrapped.com
forward slash add me and you'll get an email when the
planner is ready.
That link again is gift biz unwrapped.com
forward slash add me there is no time like the present
to take the next step on solidifying the dream you have
for your business.
The new inspired planner could be just the ticket to make
it ensure that that actually happens for you this year and
on the podcast side we have another amazing guest coming up
next week and that is a secret I'm going to keep.
Have a great week everybody,
and I'll catch you again next Monday on the gift biz
unwrapped podcast.