Foreign.

Is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

A lot of people like to use that phrase.

I don't want to coach energy and effort.

Well, I'm so I'm going to coach it every day and I think you have to.

You are going to be the things that you emphasize and in college the things that you recruit to.

Constant emphasis, constant talk, I believe leads.

To effort Justin Newton is in his sixth season as the head men's basketball coach at Reinhardt University.

He has amassed over 120 head coaching wins and has 13 years of experience as a college coach.

Newton has had three top two Appalachian Athletic Conference regular season finishes in his five years at Reinhardt.

Justin previously served one season as the head coach at Andrew College where his team had A record breaking 24.8mark in 20182019 19.

He also spent time as an assistant coach at NCAA Division 2 University of Arkansas at Monticello in the Great American Conference.

Additionally, Newton has made stops at fellow GCAA members South Georgia State, NCAA Division 2 Columbus State and Lee University.

Newton started coaching in 2011 as the head boys basketball coach at his alma mater Victory Christian School in North Augusta, South Carolina.

He turned an eight win team into an 18.4conference championship squad in his first and only season as head coach.

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Don't forget to grab pen and paper before you listen to this episode with Justin Newton, men's basketball head coach at Reinhardt University.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast.

It's Mike Linsling here without my co host Jason Suckel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Justin Newton, head men's basketball coach at Reinhardt University.

Justin, welcome to the hoopets pod man.

I'm thrilled to be here, Mike.

Really big fan of what you guys do for the game, faithful listener and just happy to be on here with you guys.

Thank you for your kind words.

Really appreciate it.

As I always say, when someone says that to me, it's nice to know that you're not just talking into an empty mic and the stuff is going out there to no one.

It's nice to know that there's some ears out there that are actually hearing and listening to what we're saying and the time that we're putting in.

So I appreciate that.

I certainly don't take it for granted that there are people out there like yourself who are listening and finding value.

So we're excited to have you on tonight.

Talk to you about some of the things that you've been able to do in your career.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid, you grow up a coach's son.

Tell me a little bit about your first experiences with the game of basketball.

Yeah, you know, my dad and mom, they have both been serving, you know, at a church for about almost 40 years now, which also has a school there, a small Christian school.

And my dad served as the athletic director and, and head basketball coach.

He coached softball, he coached football, he, I mean, he coached about any kind of ball you could have, but he had the most success and the most fun in the game of basketball.

And I grew up, you know, just being the kid, kind of how my kids are now.

I have a six and a four year old that are just running around the gym and around it all the time.

So it's just part of what we did.

You know, Friday nights and Tuesday nights were getting on the bus and watching the game and grabbing McDonald's on the way back.

And so just being around it and loving it, you know, it's always been a part of our family and been a big part of my life, you know.

So, you know, as far as getting into coaching, it was a real easy decision in that I just didn't want it to stop, you know, I Always liked being around the team and part of a team and just the tactical side of it and the competitive side.

But, you know, my dad is still a huge influence on, on my coaching philosophy and, and my, my walk with Christ and, and what we try to do there.

You know, he, he still serves at that same church.

He no longer is technically in, in the sports part of it anymore, man, but he coached and was the athletic director for over 20 years.

Won, you know, seven state championships alone in, in men's basketball and several in other sports.

But, you know, he was, he was and he still is, you know, God first and use, use the game of basketball to influence others in a positive way in his walk of Christ and, and he's definitely one of the most competitive people I've ever met my entire life and, and got that from him, you know, so he's had a, he's had a great influence on my life there, you know, and he's, he's here today.

He'll be, we got a game this weekend.

He, he came up with my mom and he'll be back there, sits behind the bench a lot of the times.

It's so funny now I have to kind of shush him over there on the back.

Can't say that anymore.

But he still loves it, he still enjoys it.

So it's really great to have it be a family affair, you know, so very blessed.

Absolutely.

It's kind of cool for your kids to be able to have not obviously the exact experience, but a similar experience in that gym.

Access and being able to run around and just, I think when you're a coach's kid and you're in that situation where mom, dad are at the gym and you just start tagging along.

I, I wonder often times did you know, like, how lucky you were to be able to have, like, how old were you when you realized, like, not every kid gets to just go and have, have the gym open and be able to go in and shoot or play whenever they want to.

Did you ever come to that realization?

Yeah, I think probably more towards, you know, middle school, high school.

You just go, oh man.

Everybody else doesn't get.

I mean, it was an everyday you go to school and immediately after school we're going straight to the gym all day.

When he was involved in, you know, a small school, every aspect where it's, you know, middle school practice, JV practice, varsity practice, and you're just there tagging along and it's your big playground, you know, this is my kid's big playground.

They Think they own that gym right now.

So that's.

That's a really cool part of it.

So I.

I'm definitely looking back in adult eyes now going, man, what a cool deal.

Everybody's got something different that makes their family special.

And that.

That has been one of the areas for sure that I'm blessed in.

I also do think it's hard being a coach's kid.

You know, like any level of success that you have as a player, you know, there are those.

It's easier as an adult to have really thick skin, but you know, in that time of your life that you don.

Know who you are and have the least amount of confidence that you could possibly have.

You have adults and kids and things like that will say some pretty ugly things that, you know, the only reason you're a good player is your dad or only reason you get to play or shoot.

So any level of success is never enough for those people.

And then you grow up and realize that it never would be enough.

You just.

You do it because you love it and you love because you do it.

So I do.

I do feel.

And I've had.

I've coached some coaches, kids that I can relate to in that aspect to where you go, man, you are lucky.

But there is a burden there for those kids having to grow up in that.

And it was hard, no question.

Yeah, I believe it.

How did you and your dad navigate that?

Was that something that you guys talked about and sort of put together a plan, for lack of a better way of saying it, or was it something that was just kind of there that you kept off to the side?

No, I still laugh about it this day, and it's very awkward at the time is my dad would go, look, that boy right there, everybody, that is my favorite player.

There's no question he's my son.

He's going to be my favorite player.

But I want you to understand, we're going to play the best players and the people that deserve to play.

But do I love him?

I got to act like he's not my son.

And him.

I have to call me coach Timmy.

No, he's my son.

You can call me dad.

And I'm going to coach him harder than probably any of you guys.

He.

The standard is what the standard is, but he.

From the get go, he made it very clear, you know, I'm not going to treat him any different.

But I.

He is my son.

And that is a realization and the truth of the matter.

So I always thought truth on the table was really good.

And he, he handled that in the right way.

It definitely made for some tough car rides and some, you know, tough post game meals and things like that.

When you're just ready to, you know, get in your nothing box and you can't help but have to talk about the game or, you know, somebody.

So sometimes it was pleasant, sometimes extremely unpleasant.

But, you know, definitely, definitely looking back on it now, really cool to get to go through those moments with, with your dad.

Not everybody gets to do that.

And, and my mom as well, you know, she cheer coach and sister cheerleader and playing.

So we're just all getting in, in the car and that's just a family affair that, you know, we get to go to work together around each other all the time.

So as a player, were you thinking the game?

As a coach, were you already thinking about, hey, someday I'd like to follow in my dad's footsteps as a coach?

Or were you strictly focused at that point on being a basketball player?

Because I think there's usually two ways that people get to coaching, right?

There's either the kid who's drawn up plays as on a napkin when they're like 8 years old, or there's somebody who I'm playing, I'm playing, I'm playing, and all of a sudden my playing career ends for whatever reason, and then I look around, I'm like, I got to have the game still.

It's in my blood.

How can I stay in the game?

So I don't know if either one of those routes applies more to your situation.

Yeah, I think, you know, just as a kid, I was really focused on, I just wanted to play in college, you know, a very small pool, very small level of high school basketball with some good players.

But, you know, there's not a lot of guys that went on to play in college.

And that was just my main focus.

It wasn't any.

I'm at 15, 16 years old.

I'm thinking nothing about wanting to coach or be an adult.

I wanted to be J.J.

redick, man.

That was who I, that was my favorite player.

I wanted to go play Duke.

I wanted to go do those things.

And I played at a very small level, very similar to what we are, Tennessee Temple University.

And it was really in college that, you know, I knew that that could always be an, an area that I could go into.

But just talking to my dad and then the coach that I played for, Randy Lee, you know, really took.

Took, you know, took time.

I really appreciate what he did.

Took time to talk to me about his path and journey and getting into coaching, working camps and going, you know, utilizing your summer as a player to make connections that.

Having a little bit of a vision for what you want to do after.

So it was really college.

I started to.

To think on that.

I never actually thought college coaching would be it.

I always thought I'd go back to the town I was, work at the school my dad did be in high school, and.

And that's great.

And there's a lot of great high school coaches out there.

But, you know, I.

I'm definitely.

It was.

When we'll get into it, it was a different opportunity that came after coaching in high school.

That, man, I just took it and ran with it and.

And hadn't looked back since.

What's your favorite memory as either a high school or college player or both?

What's.

What stands out for you when you think about your time as a player, as a.

In high school and in college?

You know, like, I mean, you can definitely think of, like, big games he had as a player, but kind of corny, man.

My.

My favorite ones are just at the Hotel Clano with some of your best friends, you know, like, going to.

We go to Christmas tournaments and Thanksgiving tournaments and, you know, sneaking out and getting some, you know, some food or, you know, meeting up with some girl in the lobby and cracking jokes and things like that.

You know, those are the things that I remember and stick with me the most in my head is just spending that time with my best friends and laughing until we cried, like, to where your stomach hurts, you know, cracking on your teammates.

So just those bus rides and those, you know, at the hotels and things like that are the.

The best memories.

And then obviously, you know, we were.

We were fortunate enough to be in some pretty big games, so just some big shots and big plays, things like that, you know, stick out postseason play.

I did have a game, you know, where we set the school record for the most threes in one game with 11 threes.

And that was pretty cool experience to get to do that.

And that one kind of sticks with me.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's fun.

You're not knocking down that many.

That's.

That's always.

That's always.

That's always a lot of fun.

I had a game with nine, so I can.

I can relate to.

I didn't.

I didn't.

Didn't get to 11, but, man, it's.

That's a.

You played at a higher level than did, man.

Yeah, it's.

But the lines.

The.

The lines.

The lines the same distance away so it you know, it's.

It's.

It's all.

It's all shooting.

Shooting is shooting.

Right.

No matter.

No matter what.

No matter what the.

No matter what the level is, you got to be able.

The ball still has to go in.

Still got to go in the basket somehow.

So you mentioned about, you know, getting the advice about can't.

Getting advice about camp and.

And working and trying to start sort of looking at what it might take to be.

To be a coach.

What was.

Did you go out and go to a bunch of camps?

What was the favorite one?

If you.

That when you were out on the camp circuit that, that you went to either just through connections or just you like the camp itself and the.

The atmosphere that was created there.

Yeah, I mean we.

I went to Liberty Camp when Randy Dunn was the head coach and got to.

To work there.

Richie McKay and then I worked some smaller college stuff like at USC Aiken and I'm from Augusta Georgia in that area.

So at USC Aiken when Vince Alexander was there and Augusta State and Dip Mitras who's still there now.

You know, just getting to.

To go to those places and see different levels of players and always enjoyed the app.

The.

The camp part was great work.

The J.

The very first Jay Billis camp ever.

That was pretty cool.

But it was really the after you know, the camp was over and getting to hear those stories from other coaches and how they got into it and you know, you would see different levels of players and coaches and just going man, there's so many good coaches out there, so many good players.

But yeah, I mean I worked some.

I worked at Duke camp one time.

That was really cool and I think it's different now too.

You know how guys get into coaching.

I mean I definitely think I was on the tail end of it of man guys used to be man go work every summer camp you possibly can and make those.

Yep.

I don't necessarily think that that's as popular anymore for coaches getting into it.

I definitely think lots.

There's a lot of clinics and things like the J Bill's camp.

You can get into those things.

The PGC clinics and all that kind of stuff.

Head Start basketball, all that, you know, really, really cool.

Really cool opportunities to make those connections now coaching AAU basketball or different areas opportunities more so than working, you know, the physical.

I'm going to go to the UGA basketball summer camp and I know people still do that.

That was the only avenue I think back then for making those.

Those connections.

And I did a little Bit of that coming into it.

Yeah.

The camp circuit I think has definitely changed from that respect.

Right.

I think that when you look at, if you go back in time, those camps, so many more kids would go and attend whatever a college camp versus now everybody's playing AAU in the summertime.

So you just don't have as many kids going to those camps.

And I think therefore you don't have as many coaches working them in the same way.

And it's just sort of morphed in a different, in a different direction.

So when you graduate, tell me about the job search.

What are you thinking as you get out of school?

Obviously you said the thought process first is, hey, I'm going to go back and I'm going to just be a high school coach and be a teacher.

And I know you went back to your alma mater, but what was the job search like?

Did you look around elsewhere?

What were you thinking?

What was your mindset when you graduated?

Well, actually at the school that I was at, Victory Christian School, my dad was no longer the ad, the pastor kind of moved him into an executive pastor role.

So it was a guy that actually played for my dad was the ad and he knew I was graduating and he called me, you know, even before I was like, even before I graduated, like, look, I'd love for you to come back and do this if it's something you're interested in.

It was totally volunteer.

You know, you don't get paid for coaching, but you could make some money doing this other avenue.

So I didn't really look at anything else.

I thought, man, what a cool opportunity being, you know, 22 years old and coming and being a head coach and, and getting that experience.

So I just did that.

And it was, it was neat.

You know, we had, I, I didn't know what, I didn't know.

I looked back at those times and it was absolutely pure passion and excitement.

But yeah, I, I didn't look around much.

It just made, you know, stars aligned and that was, that was the direction I was headed and really excited about coming back home and, and trying to follow in my dad's foot footsteps.

So what's that experience like?

I mean, there's a whole lot of things to unpack there.

One, you're coming back to your own school.

Two, you're coming back to a position that your dad held for many years and obviously had a tremendous amount of success.

And then you're also getting your first coaching position as a head Coach, as a 22 year old guy.

So what do you Remember about that first year in terms of just your own sort of adjustment, Are you, are you starstruck?

Are you figuring it out?

Was it more overwhelming than what you thought it was going to be?

Just what was that first experience like?

Yeah, I think, you know, playing is way more fun than coaching's a blast, but playing is definitely more fun than coaching.

But just getting that, that rush of the pressure that you have a direct impact and influence on kids, like immediately and that your words carry and you know, I am a competitor and emotional and, you know, you get excited and you say some things and you look back and you go, man, that probably wasn't the smartest thing to say in that moment.

You know, you're, you're trying to fire up.

There was a whole lot more motivating and firing up than there was teaching, you know, and I think that there's a place for both of those things.

You know, it was, it's about competing and playing hard.

And I played at college level and these kids have never played and don't know, but I mean, they don't care about that stuff.

They only care about what you're doing for them.

So I think it was an unbelievable learning experience for me.

I'm still learning a whole lot, but a really cool learning experience to really get thrown into the fire of being in charge of trying to come up with, what does a practice plan look like?

What is the consistency?

What are the goals that we want to have?

You know, you don't get to pick the players that, you know that you're going to coach.

So trying to figure out what this team can be good at, not what their deficiencies are and what makes this team special.

So that I found that really cool going.

You know, these guys really struggled the year before, and then the next year we were able to turn it around by playing some really, really good, you know, pick it up, full court pressure defense that, you know, that, that really fit the group of guys that we had.

So that part I thought was really, I never had a hand in that.

I'd see my dad do that or my college coach do that.

Just having a hand in, you know, what's the path, what's the, what's the plan?

You know, and then I, again, from my mom and my dad, you know, that relational part of being able to connect with players and get down to their level, you know, to.

They don't know.

They don't care how much, you know, unless you know how much care.

I know that's a corny and old Used one.

But it's so true, man.

Just being able to engage the heart and let them know, like I'm, I'm trying to, to do this for your best interest and you know, I'm here to help you.

I'm not here to hurt you.

So just making that connection with guys again, really, really neat learning experience and a lot of fall on face moments where you go, man, I, I don't know, I don't know anything yet, you know, so it definitely a humbling like bring you down.

Like I need to be a student of the game and really need to learn if I want to be good at this.

I really need to dive deep into here and, and be humble and hungry to learn if I'm going to be any good at this.

Because I definitely know I have the passion and excitement and drive to do it, but there's a lot of people that want to do it.

It's about, you know, getting better and learning.

So I definitely think that set the foundation of man, Justin, you got work to do, you know.

So what was the process then once you realize.

Because obviously you come in and I think a lot of people coming off their playing career, right, we all think that we know a ton about what it takes to be a good coach.

And unfortunately in many cases, and I know this was rings true for me, that I basically knew what my high school coach did and I knew what my college coach did.

And if you'd asked me how anybody else did it, I don't know, you know, I wasn't that because my focus was on being a player.

And then all of a sudden I'm a coach and the only thing I knew was the, the two guys that I had played for.

So what was your process once you realized like, hey, there's things that I got to figure out about this game.

Where did you go?

Did you go to mentors?

Did you go to your dad?

Did you go to film?

Did you, where, where'd you go to to sort of start to build that knowledge base that you came to recognize that, hey, I, I gotta, I gotta get better at this part of it.

Well, you know, I was only at my alma mater for a year and we were, we went to, we were at a summer camp and my college coach I played for gave me a call.

It was in July and it's like, man, I got a college coaching buddy at a junior college, Corey Baldwin, who coaches at South Georgia State, and he had his assistant bail on him and he needs to know something in like a week, you know, Are you interested?

And I'm like, oh gosh, maybe, you know, so, you know, I'm like, man, what a cool opportunity.

My parents were fully supportive of it and I just dove right in there.

And I really believe that that time going to.

I learned so much from my dad and so much from my college coach, but that time of where I, where I went away from my first big boy job and pennies on the dollar, by the way, but going away from everything, you know, and that you're comfortable with in coaching and working for.

And I could.

They always say you're the first head coach you work for is so important.

And man, I believe that because it can give you a foundation or a love or a yearning for how to do it.

And man, did I get a good one in Coach Baldwin over at South Georgia State.

And he was the one that goes, that showed me, you know, like this is, it's not the what that you pick, it's that you pick something and you're married to it and you're a master teacher of it, you recruit to it and that's what you do.

And this is our way.

And he really showed me what it means to run a program and to be clear on what the mission, the mission and the vision is for our program.

So I mean full court pressure and big time athletes and you know, very physical and he was very well connected in the coach, still is in the coaching community.

So he would take us to clinics and he's always on the road, you know, recruiting.

So he would take, he would take us on the bus ride, introduce us and he'd take us to college practices because we're trying to get our guys recruited at the junior college level.

So constantly seeing those other levels and he knew he still does that, his assistant there, that's not a destination job.

And he's got a really good knack for moving his players on, but just as good move his, his assistants on to other places.

So he really used that and I try to do that with ours now as a, as a mentor spot.

Like, look man, this is what it takes to be good in this business.

And I want you to go further than I was.

And here's some things I didn't know at the time.

Here's gotta be a learner, you gotta work really hard.

And so yeah, that was the place that really started my, my search for knowledge and my excitement and my baptism into going, man, this is not all it's cracked up to be.

You know, like, yeah, coaches just roll the balls out or X's and O's, man, walking guys to class or making sure they're out of trouble.

I can't even tell you something, you know, stuff like that, where I'm going, whoa.

This little Christian school kid from north Augusta is getting baptized in some crazy, some crazy here to understand that, man, it's really, you're in the people business and you know, figuring out how to get this group of people to move in one direction.

So that was, that was really where it was.

Long winded answer.

But that was really where it started for me in, in figuring out my path and how I wanted to get better at this.

Looking back, what was unique, what did you like about the JUCO experience?

Cause obviously it's different from where you are now and some of your other stops along the way in terms of, you know, you talked about it just academically making sure guys are doing what they're supposed to do and keeping them out of trouble and all the different things that kind of go into a JUCO experience.

And obviously it also comes down to, as you said, building relationships with those guys so they can trust you and then giving them that next opportunity for the guys who, who take advantage of it.

So what do you remember about.

And what do you like about that, that JUCO experience?

Oh man, I remember everything about it, you know, because such a foundational part in my life and you know, I think the, the biggest thing was just the lack of education that most young people have about players at every level.

And I'm get, you know, being at the school, I turned down going to a small junior college because I'm like, I don't need, I'm.

I'm a good student.

I don't need to go to a junior college or it's not necessarily always about that.

You're getting there in these.

I mean I'm looking up, there's a 610 dude with his armpits in the rim and you know, these dudes flying around.

Bigger, better athletes I've ever seen in my life at this little junior college in Waycross, Georgia.

You know, so just the, the ability to be like, man, there are high level players here.

So that, that was cool.

And then just understanding, man, there's levels within levels of stuff.

So you know, this junior South Georgia State and its situation is going to be completely different than northwest Florida states situation.

And some junior colleges or maybe a tech school is about like, man, they can only get, you know, lower level academic guy.

Well, South Georgia State, we, we were a state school.

It was hard to Kick guys in there.

It wasn't quite as, as simple as that.

So the, but the, the main thing that I loved about the junior and I later went on to become a head coach in junior college ranks for one year is just the, the hunger for man, I've got something to prove.

You know, I'm not where I'm going to be.

You know, you're always looking for that, man.

If we can do this as a team, we can accomplish X and, and every other level, four year basketball, that's man, get a degree, that's, that's win a championship.

And all those things are still true at the junior college level.

But you got this fourth one, you know, which is man, move on to the next level.

Man, if we all do well here, we're all going to move on, coaches, players included, you know, so it was really cool to get those guys.

He always had A plus B equals C which is our number one goal here is to graduate.

You get, you get a degree here, it's a whole lot easier to get in anywhere else.

Right.

We want to grab, we want to win.

You know, people want people from winning programs to do A and B.

The moving on part to the next level is going to take care of itself.

So just that process of man, getting guys that maybe didn't get what they wanted and seeing them have the development and the hunger to man, they started out here and freshmen average two points a game.

Then man, their first team all, all conference guy in the junior college ranks.

Now they're playing Division 1.

It's just such a, such a cool deal to watch.

In a short time people be able to make such big jumps that you know, sometimes at four year level you need to make those jumps in four years.

But sometimes kids don't, you know, because you get stuck in thinking I'm here, I've made it, I've done it, you know.

So that was what I found really cool and interesting about there.

Yeah, no, it makes complete sense.

I think that it's as you said, an element that maybe isn't always as present at a four year institution because as you said, guys are locked into their spot.

Although now with the transfer portal, I'm not sure, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure anybody's locked into whatever.

I'm not sure that's as applicable as it might have been five years ago, but certainly understand kind of the point of what, of what you're getting at when you start out at the college level.

At the college level, what do you think you Were best at?

What was your, what was your strength?

What did you bring to the table that first season that you feel like, hey, this is something that obviously I know that there's every coach.

The standard answer is I was bad at a ton of things.

But what's something that you felt like?

What's something that you felt like was your strength that when you look back at it you're like, hey, this is.

If I didn't do anything else, this is the one thing I brought to the program.

God, I can't tell you how poor of an assistant I was my first year.

Oh man, I'm so thankful.

But I did eventually find that man.

I really just like as a kid I just enjoy being in the gym, you know, so getting guys extra shots.

But even beyond that, you know, we don't have a big recruiting budget.

But I would just go, I just go to every high school game, I go to every showcase and all that.

So recruiting really became my niche as, as an assistant.

We're evaluating talent, making those connections with high school juco four year coaches and just man, trying to help put that team together and getting the vision from the head coach, man, what is our need?

What is the type of player that we want to have?

Because oftentimes, you know, we can be, you know, given to.

I just want to go in the gym, find the best looking dude I can.

Whereas I think assistance could really benefit from man, really study your head coach and understand what is his vision of the fit for our program and go out and find that more so than talent is absolutely essential.

I mean they got to have talent and they got to have ability.

But you know, what talent, what talent, what, what intangibles are the things that your head coach values.

Otherwise you're going to, you're going to be wasting a lot of time.

So man, I just went in every gym, tried to cast a wide net.

I knew that, that selfishly could.

Could help me make connections in, in trying to go in this game.

So that became the thing I felt like I became really good at there and then at the next few stops.

That was my, that was my main role as an assistant was coming up with names and hitting the roads and making connections and bringing guys in recruiting wise.

All right, how do you balance out?

And maybe this has changed since you started, but how do you balance out evaluating a player in AAU versus evaluating them as a high school player?

Because I remember, and this is now probably even longer ago than the timeframe that we're talking about, but I Remember when my kids were young, so my oldest is 20 now, and saying to people that would tell me, oh, AAU is more important if you want to play college basketball.

And I remember telling people, like, there's.

You're crazy.

There's.

There's no possible way.

And then as my kids.

So my son's a freshman at Ohio Wesleyan, Division 3 here in the state of Ohio, and all of his recruitment came through aau.

I mean, once people identified him in aau, then coaches came to watch him play in high school to demonstrate that they were interested.

But I would say that 99% of his recruitment went through AAU.

So how do you think about just evaluating a player?

Obviously, those two settings are different, and clearly not just in terms of the setting and the fact you can see a million players in an AAU tournament versus one or two in a high school game, but just also the role that a player plays.

But just.

Just talk about the difference between looking at a player with their high school team versus an AAU team.

Yeah, I think, you know, especially at the small college level, when you're talking about aau, you're getting the best players from most high schools, and you're able to get them all under one roof.

It's just the better bang for your buck.

But I.

I do believe it just starts the process.

Right?

Like, so you're watching those AAU games and you're going, man, here's my list.

I need to go out and see them with their high school as opposed to, man, let's just go to the local high school game and see what happens.

You probably.

If you're going to a high school game, you have already zeroed in on this kid, and you're looking for reasons to keep recruiting him or to not, you know, at that point, I don't.

It's.

And sometimes, definitely, you go in a high school game, you go to watch these two kids, and, man, there's, man, who's that guy?

I don't know who that is.

And that happens.

But, you know, I do think your base starts in those travel ball seasons.

Of course, now, at least where.

Where I live, I don't know if they do this up north as much.

Maybe they do.

But now with the June live period with these high schools, where usually that's reserved for going to team camps and things like that.

Like, the Georgia Basketball Coaches association does an amazing job here to where they get, like, the 200 best high school basketball teams in Georgia, and they stick them all under one roof at Lake Point and You can see those same kids that you just saw in April and you're going to see in May, are going to see in July, in June with their high school teams, and it's a totally different deal.

Man, they're their best player or man, they have a different role or, man, they're being coached.

How are they being coached in a system?

You know, as not the AAU programs don't run a system.

It's just much less practice time, much more, much less of that going on.

So I do think with the new June live period, you kind of can build a whole lot more into the summertime than you used to.

But yeah, I, I definitely think when you're talking about going to plant like a high school game, you've probably done most of your homework before then.

Yeah, I think that's what you described in Georgia.

We started doing that here in Ohio.

I think this will be, this summer will be the, maybe the fourth year that we've had that.

And they do it here.

They call it Midwest Live.

And it.

We bring teams from Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, all over, all over the place here in the Midwest.

And yeah, to be able to have again, all those really good high school teams under one roof.

When you go back and talk about efficiency now, you're seeing you get the aau, whatever the volume that you normally get in aau, but then, as you said, you're also seeing a kid in a system which is much more like how they're probably going to play when they get to your school, which I'm sure helps with the evaluation process.

And again, the more chances you get to look at a kid and see what they are and be able to see them in person, clearly you start to get a feel for what that kid is all about as a player and probably just as importantly as a person, and whether or not they're going to fit into your program and all the things that again, go along with what it takes to be able to recruit somebody.

So the value of that to me, I mean, again, and I only saw it really from the parent perspective, but the value of that, to me, that's off the charts in terms of being able to evaluate players more accurately.

Yes, No, I, I agree.

It's become.

I don't know about other coaches, but a lot of our favorite part of the year, AU is definitely fun, but man, that June period is so cool.

And the competitive level of you kind of get some rivalries going, you know, a local teams playing against each other in June, you know that it's unlikely that you don't see it until the regular season.

So it's been really.

So there's even more on the line there for the competitiveness and edge and it means a little bit more to lose a game in that setting than necessarily an AAU setting.

So that, that has been really fun for us coaches to watch and see kids in those scenarios.

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Tell me about the next three stops as an assistant.

What attracted you to each of those jobs, what you learned along the way and then we'll eventually get to the first head coaching opportunity that you get.

Yeah.

So from South Georgia State I left and went and became an assistant at college Columbus State University in Columbus, Georgia for head coach Robert Moore, who's still there.

We actually played in a couple juco jamborees there and I just thought that place was so cool and I love the town and made a really good connection with Coach Moore actually got that job.

I eat I just bugged the crud out of him with emails which I don't encourage that to be the, the, the pat but I knew he knew who I was and I had just, that was one job I just laser pointed like I want to, I want to be on your staff coach.

I love the opportunity and, and to his credit him and Coach Hicks who is the, the associate ed gave me a chance and man I just, I went over there, worked really hard for those guys for a year, learned a lot from them and it was very different than anything I'd had.

It was the most talent I'd ever seen.

I mean we were so incredibly talented.

Coach Moore and Coach Hicks just like to another level of the recruiting piece just taught me, you know how even more not that I didn't know already some but even more how to evaluate what translates at this level, you know what you're looking for and what good programs to find.

So that, and then their coaching style was completely different.

Like we ran the like amoeba zone.

I had come From a strictly double fist, man to man, run and jump press, you know, pack into a pack line stuff.

And over there, man, we're man to man on misses and amoeba on makes and big.

Incredibly huge athletes.

We had seven guys played professionally off of that team at D2 team.

So it was just a different vibe and a different level.

I mean mu the Peach Belt, especially back then, really high level of D2 basketball and again, just going.

And I did not realize it was.

It was this high of a level of players and, and coaches, some unbelievably good coaches in the beach Belt.

So that was a really cool stop there.

Went on from there to become an assistant at Lee University for Tommy Brown.

And the associate head coach was Cole Rose.

Tommy Brown now runs the Heartbeat.

I think that's what he calls it.

He's gonna kill me not knowing it, but one Heartbeat clinics and he goes and speaks all around the country with different teams.

He'd be a great personality podcast, by the way.

Really good coach.

Coached at Lee University for a long time, Bluefield for a long time.

And Cole Rose, who is now the head coach at Palm Beach Atlantic, who's in the top 25 in the country now in division two, got to work with those guys at Lee and the Gulf south and just again seeing the level and did the travel.

Unbelievable how far across the country we were going.

And, and there I got to go through the process of NAI 2 D2 like they are just leaving NAI to D2.

So learning that was probably the most I'd ever learned about the compliance side of what goes into getting guys eligible and recruiting periods and dead periods and you know, when can, when can you talk to kids and all that kind of stuff from what kind of releases and paperworks and things like that that we really had to be on our toes with.

So it was a great learning experience there.

It was the first time I'd ever been on a staff that's been fired.

You know, they always say there are coaches that aren't that are going to be fired or have been fired.

And it was a very scary time in my life because I just got engaged to my now wife Nikki and we get let go like a month and a half before we're supposed to get married, you know, so I had to have some incredible faith.

So I'm.

I'm talking about searching email and getting on NCAA job postings, you know, just anything I could find.

And I had a.

It was a lower paying job, but it was Arkansas, Monticello.

They had not been extremely successful yet, but got to go over there and work for an amazing head coach in Kyle Tolan.

And he's really had an incredible impact on a lot of my coaching philosophy too.

And just he was a great Christian man who really had his teams connected.

Great teacher.

His dad was a 30 year teacher in Oklahoma in like 7 Oklahoma basketball hall of Fames as a player.

And his coach, coach at Oklahoma Baptist, won a couple national championships there and he helped us.

He was a volunteer coach there too.

So getting to learn a lot from those guys, Won a conference championship with them.

So those were my, my three stops as an assistant coach, you know, before getting the opportunity to, to jump into the head coach role.

So at this point, are you looking for head coaching positions?

Are you feeling like you've sort of solidified who you are as a coach and that you're ready to take your own program?

Are you actively seeking jobs or does the Andrew job sort of come to you out of the blue, for lack of a better way of saying, how do you get that opportunity?

Yeah, I, I wasn't.

Look, I was very happy at Arkansas Monticello.

You know, it was far away from home, but it was a really good place and me and my wife were really happy there.

And Kyle had done a great job of working to, you know, know, get a raise.

I mean, it was going good.

We had two great years, you know, signed a contract, it was all going well.

And then the saint, the Andrew College job, which it was not a good job, which is why I could get it, you know, everybody's first head coach job, man, I got to wait for a good one.

Well, you know, you might not be able to get a good one.

You know, you need to get one that makes sense and that you could, you think you could make an impact and you could make a run at it.

And the guy that was at Andrew College before me, Jamie Brooks, was a close friend of mine.

And Corey Baldwin, the guy I worked for, who was obviously in that league, knew it was coming open and called me and was like, look, dude, you know, head coaching jobs don't grow on trees.

I know these are the things that make it really difficult.

The location, how much it costs to go there.

It's a private juco in a league with a bunch of public jucos.

I mean, there's so many bad things, but it's a good place and it's a good opportunity for a first head coaching job.

And you're from Georgia, it's back home.

You know, you're probably about to start to have a family, you know, probably makes sense to get back.

So, you know, just said I'd look at it and did.

And.

And, you know, I just felt right in my heart and spirit that this was the right move for us and.

And made the move.

So when you take that job and you transitioned from assistant coach to head coach, obviously you put some thought into.

Before you step into that chair.

You thought about, well, when I get my own program, what's it going to look like and what am I going to do?

Both from a basketball on court, style of play, offensively, defensively, that kind of thing, but also just type of culture you want to instill and all those things.

So how closely were you able to match your vision of what you thought you would do with a program versus what you were actually able to do once you step into that seat at Andrew?

Yeah, I think, again, just having the benefit of some really good mentors that you can call and, you know, they'll tell you the truth.

So my dad and Corey Baldwin, as I mentioned, I call him every, every day.

And, you know, I, I like, I need some help.

I knew I needed some.

I knew.

I didn't know what I.

What I wanted to quite.

I had an idea of some things I liked here or there, but I think high clarity, high performance.

So I went back to.

I spent, you know, four days and went and sat with Coach Baldwin and asked him every question I possibly could about the way he did things and what we did, this what we like, what we didn't like.

And because being somewhere and seeing it and being a teacher of it and a master teacher of it are two different things.

So I do think I did the right thing in going back and doing my homework.

And then the same thing with Coach Tolan and, And Coach Moore.

You know, I.

I asked the things that I wanted to bring that I learned there.

You know, I just asked them and wrote, Wrote down a ton of stuff.

Tried to get all in front of me, like, this is a whole lot of stuff.

I got to get some clarity and some simplicity here about what we wanted to do.

And the main thing we came down to is what it is here now, which is compete together and discipline.

You know, we wanted to play harder than any team.

You know, we wanted to be able to say, man, we're going to play harder than any.

Any team that walks in the gym.

You know, we want to empty the tank.

And what does compete look like, you know, in our drills and our daily habits?

Like anything that we're going to do.

There's going to be a winner and a loser for and we're going to celebrate what repeated.

So we would celebrate winners and things like that.

Again, something I got from another place.

And the togetherness piece was something that, man, I really thought Coach Tolan and them did a good job at UAM about.

What does it mean to have an elite level locker room?

You know, I don't think it's sitting around the campfire and singing Kumbaya.

I really think it's.

Man, you have to understand if you want a good relationship or you want a good marriage, man, you have to choose to have a good marriage.

You have to choose to have a good relationship and you have to work, put work into it.

So just how do you, how do you manifest that in your team?

And the other one was discipline.

Our we're going to do our plan.

Discipline is just doing the things you said you were going to do long after the time you felt, after the feeling you had when you said it right.

So we wanted to be very clear and simple about our plan and we weren't going to divulge from that because it wasn't going the route that we wanted to go.

So I do think I had to ask myself a lot of questions, wrote a lot of stuff down and tried to get a vision because if I'm confused, they're definitely going to be confused.

And I look back and go, man, I definitely could have done better.

Yeah, I still am struggling with that.

Like, who are you as a coach?

What are your non negotiable, what are the things you believe in and sticking to those things while adapting to, to the way players are now and the resources you have and things like that.

So yeah, what, what's changed from that original vision?

Let's start with the basketball side of it and then we'll come back to the culture, relationship, locker room part of it.

But just start with the basketball side of it in terms of how you want your teams to play, what you want them to look like on the floor.

How has that changed over the years that you've.

Obviously you went from Andrew to Reinhardt, but how does what you thought you were going to want your teams to play like has that changed from day one to where you are now?

And obviously personnel, you make changes based on who your, who your personnel is and that kind of thing and trying to fit their strengths.

But just from a basketball standpoint, how have you evolved as a coach over the time that you've been a head coach?

Yeah, I Think the style is still what, what I, what I envisioned to begin with.

I mean, we play fat.

We don't.

We say we play fast, we don't necessarily shoot fast.

You know, we want to play with incredible pace on both ends.

You know, like we, if we can fly it up and get an in rhythm corner three or a layup, you know, like, why wait later on, you know, to say just because it's quick, you know, but that also doesn't mean I'm flying it up and jack and stuff.

Like we really want to move and share the ball, you know, and, and be a team that you can't just cut the head of the snake off.

So we really still believe in, in that ball movement stuff.

And we run, you know, the old Carolina secondary, you know, with some adjustments for more skill type players, as opposed to two big postmen that, that are in there.

Right.

Or it's more of a, you know, get three to the baseline, you know, rim runner and then play them with pace and motion.

Things like on offensive and defensively, you know, again, I think maybe not what we teach necessarily has evolved, but how we teach, you know, and the clarity of, of what, what the plan is and the verbiage of what it is, instead of just being like, man, we gotta get there or man, this drill.

Yeah, like getting really clear on what, you know, no middle means and where are, where our spots are on the floor offensively.

This is the halo, man.

This is the Ray Allen corner hug the silent.

Like, I just, I don't believe I was as good at that early on.

I think I've grown as a teacher and I've still got a lot of growing to do, you know, but you know, it hasn't necessarily changed in the style of play.

I still think we play with pace and space offensively and then defensively we want to wear people down.

We, we play kind of the no middle press defense, um, and quite frankly have struggled in, in the last year.

But you know, traditionally we've been really tough defensively and then we usually are top two or three in the league and assist the game, you know, so that's kind of our, our niche around here.

All right, so let me ask you two things that go along with those two points that you just made of competing and playing hard on the defensive end of the floor and then sharing the ball on offense.

Because obviously any coach who's out there listening, if you can get your team to do those two things, there's a pretty good chance you're going to have some Success in some way, shape or form.

So when you think about getting your team to compete and play hard defensively, what's the key to that?

And then I'll come back to the unselfishness and, and making the extra pass and those things in offense.

But let's start on the defensive side of the ball.

How do you get a team to play hard defensively?

What's the day to day talk?

The day to day actions that need to happen in order for your team to compete, compete at the level you want them to defensively?

Well, I think Kelvin Sampson said, you know, you can always hear a good team and you never can hear a bad team.

And I do believe that talk and not rah rah talk, but early, loud, often positive talk constantly leads to unbelievable effort.

Right?

Like so man, I'm, we're, we're.

Man, turn the ball like I want to.

I want to pressure the ball and turn the ball.

Well.

If I don't have, I'm more apt to do that more consistently if the baseline behind me is encouraging me that entire time.

Turn him zay.

Turn him zay, man, turn him again.

I got your back.

I'm here.

You know, just that constant communication to level up to, to what it looks like.

And I think returners also help by leading by example.

So when you play for man, they set the tone of man.

This is what it looks like to sprint, you know, to sprint to the paint back on defense.

This is what it looks like to close out hard and sit down in the stance and shove a guy out for a blockout rebound.

Right.

So I think whatever it is you emphasize, I know a lot of people like to use that phrase.

I don't want to coach energy and effort.

Well, I'm so I'm going to coach it every day and I think you have to, you are going to be the things that you emphasize and the thing and in college the things that you recruit to, you know, and I, I've learned that kind of the hard way too.

Sometimes in that man, you have to have an identity as a team.

And if we're going to identify as a, a defensive minded team, you know, and we're having.

I want to fix you as a coach, I want to fix this by recruiting this type of player.

Well, if he doesn't fit what I just talked about, you know, it's hard, it's hard to have a really good defensive team if some of your best players aren't good defensive players, you know.

So I do think you have to, you have to recruit to that?

Are they mentally tough?

Do they value that side of the ball?

And have they been coached that way in their high school or their junior college?

Right.

So some of that is solved in the recruiting process.

But I believe it starts with incredible talk and then not like blowing the whistle when it's not good enough.

Like, I mean, being, hey, man, that's not that.

Whatever that was.

That is not.

That is not the level of communication and stance and dog, you know, that we're talking about here.

So just constant emphasis, confidence, constant talk, I believe leads to effort.

As you've been at Reinhart for multiple years and you talked about your returning guys being able to instill that, how much of the policing of that type of effort and talk and communication is now taken off your plate and been put on the plate of the upperclassmen.

And obviously, as you said, the whistle sometimes has to blow and it needs to blow.

But how much of it has been taken over by the returning guys in the program where compared to, let's say, your first year versus now?

Obviously the standard has been set and the guys that are coming back know what that standard is.

How much are they enforcing that just because again, it's.

It's our team, right?

It's not.

It's not your team.

It's.

It's our team.

Oh, I think, I think especially this year, we've had some incredible locker room leadership.

But I think the, the longer you do something, the longer you're at a program and the more you have success doing it, I think the better your leaders grow.

And that is the definition of we hear that contagious phrase player led teams are better than coach led teams, but people don't really dive into that or not enough.

That doesn't mean the coach, the players are calling the plays or making the subs or creating the vision.

That means that the best players and leaders on your team accept the vision and the mission that you've laid out.

They're just taking the driver's seat over and making sure they're the, they're the guardrails.

If anybody deviates from that thing, they're the ones.

They're like, hey, hey, buddy, we're back over here.

Right?

So I do think that especially on good teams, those guys are much more effective.

And the most important conversations that are AD are not me blowing the whistle or me going on my tangent during film.

It's usually when I'm not there in the locker room or I'm not there at the hotel room or I'm not there at that meal that they're having and they're talking about, this is what we do, man.

I mean, you may not agree with Newton there, but, man, this is the standard of what it's going to take to win.

So you're not going to win that battle.

You might as well get over here with us, right?

So those are way more effective than you sitting there trying to beat a dead horse.

You know, you got to.

You got.

You're a salesman.

You got to have more on this side of the fence if you're going to.

Because they're all.

All new guys are going to question, you know, there's a hundred different ways to skin a cat.

So if they were successful at their last place, you know, they're drinking the Kool Aid on what they did the last place.

Right.

And that's great, but we're not at your last place anymore.

You're here now, you know, so are those returners welcoming that in and enforcing that?

Yeah, I think it's a huge role.

Yeah, it makes sense.

All right, talk to me about the unselfishness piece of it.

I'm guessing that the first part of the answer is you recruit it, right?

You watch it.

You see guys that play the way that you like the game to be played, in terms of moving the ball on offense.

But once you get a guy in there, once you start putting your team together.

Look, we all know players like to score, right?

Players like to have the ball in their hands.

Players like to do things.

They like to be the proverbial straw that stirs the drink.

But we all know that that's not the way that basketball works.

Basketball works best when nobody cares who scores and when the ball moves.

So how do you instill that in your team?

What does that look like in a practice setting, in conversations, in meetings, in film?

How do you get that message across so that your kids see that, hey, the ball has to move, and when it does, this is the result.

Yeah, I mean, I think, again, the longer you're at a place, you have film and things like that that you can go to, but I do think that's just the starter place of it.

Right.

But I think clarity on what is a good shot, you know, and.

And analytics will tell you for sure, open in rhythm, catch and shoot threes, layups and free throws.

And.

And I do think that's true.

But also, we like to say what, we hunt nines, you know, there are no tens in basketball, you know, but we hunt nines, you know, and we don't want zero zeros or turnovers, right?

So what does a nine look like?

And that's open in rhythm, in roll and in time, you know, open corner three might be good for you.

Who made eight threes.

It might not be for, you know, our five man.

You know that that's better around the rim.

So just understanding roles.

So I think it starts with clarity on what a good shot is.

And I think.

I think clarity on roles like celebrate things that they bring to the team.

Man, this guy's an unbelievable shooter, but this guy is an unbelievable rebounder.

He's never going to be able to shoot it and handle it but give like praising that guy.

We have different roles that have kind of silly names and things like that.

We have, you know, your spacer, your racker, or we.

We call one guy like our defensive stopper, we call the ups man, because the guys come up with, we're going to put him in a box, he can't get out of here, right?

So like you.

You come up with those things that, man, I identify as, that's my role and that is important to our team.

Success other than just scoring.

And then things like, you know, again, they remember the shot, the made shot, but do they remember the banana cut that the point guard made and flying it up that led to us being able to get a paint touching it on the other side?

Do.

Do we celebrate that point post guy sprinting to the halo and sealing a guy and making their team get four guys to the baseline.

He doesn't ever touch the ball, but it leads to a trail three, you know, so emphasizing those things that you're going to lead to a great shot and celebrating them even when they didn't score or they didn't get an assist, showing that, man, that's an Eagle assist, that's.

That led to us having success on the offensive end.

So that they do feel part of it.

Because if it's only celebrating the shot that's made or the action that's run, you know, I'm going to have 15 players that want to be in that action or take that shot.

Right?

But emphasizing and celebrating those things that lead to good shots, I think help.

It's so funny to hear you say it in that particular way.

In terms of recognizing a play that happens that doesn't show up in the scorebook.

Right.

It doesn't necessarily show up in the stats, but it's the three on two where the one guy runs hard and the defender has to slide over and then the other guy gets the layup.

And the guy who ran hard gets no credit for that.

But what I always find interesting is when I've been watching my kids play, and oftentimes I'll sit next to other parents or whatever, and I'm watching a game.

And 99% of people that you'll sit next to and watch a game don't see the things that you would see as a coach or that I'm sitting there and I'll watch.

And every once in a while I will have somebody that'll say, oh, look at that play.

That again, didn't result in a basket whatever whatever.

But 99% of the people you sit next to just, they're evaluating a player or a game or a situation based on who makes the basket or whatever.

And then the other thing that I always think is funny, and I think it goes back to sort of my bias towards the way that you're talking about your team's playing right, and moving the ball and whatever, is when I'm watching a game, like, I'll sit and I usually don't clap for anything.

Like, I'll just sit and I'm just.

I'm just observing the game.

And the only thing I'll ever say anything about usually is a good pass.

And the one day I was sitting with my daughter, who she's a freshman in high school, I think we were watching the boys high school team where.

Where she plays, and kid made a nice pass and I just clapped him like, oh, that's a great pass.

And she just turns tonight, she just turns her head.

She looks at me, she's like, dad.

She's like, only thing you ever get excited about is when somebody throws a good pass.

I'm like.

I'm like, you're like, you're 100.

You're 100, right?

Because that.

If we could unlock that as coaches in the game of basketball, I mean, it's just.

It's amazing to me how many people play the game of basketball and have not yet figured out that when the ball moves, it's so much easier for your team to have success.

And I think as.

As coaches, it's.

It's one of the hardest things to instill in your team because again, the natural tendency from the time we all pick up a ball is everybody just wants to be the person chucking and chucking it in the hoop.

And so to.

To get somebody to see that.

And so I just always feel like, man, when you see somebody who can pass and move the ball, it's such a special talent.

I'm sure that's what you're looking for when you're recruiting guys, too.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

All right, tell me a little bit about your practice planning process, both in terms of how you go about designing what a practice is going to look like.

How do you figure out what we need to work on in a given day?

Obviously within the season when you're playing games, it's easier to kind of look at.

Okay, here's maybe an area we struggled in in the last game.

Just walk me through a planning.

A practice planning session.

How are you doing that by yourself with your staff?

How do you go about putting together a good practice?

It's definitely with our staff, you know, when we can.

I like it all the room and we're talking, but sometimes it just ends up being me.

We're playing three games in one week and we're on a text message string or we're talking about it on the bus and I'm making notes there.

But we do want to have a level of consistency.

I tell our team, look, I'm not designing practice.