[0:00:00] Natalie Jennings: I love that I can see your cat in this video that no one can see but they're just listening to. You have a pretty cat.

[0:00:07] Audrey Nicole: Yes. She's so cute. She's super snugly. She'll come up to me and meow and like rub against your leg. And she wants me to hold her. So then I have to hold her for a while and carry her around.

[0:00:21] Natalie Jennings: So cute.

[0:00:21] Audrey Nicole: Like a baby.

[0:00:22] Natalie Jennings: Oh, that's sweet.

[0:00:26] Audrey Nicole: She just gorgeous.

[0:00:27] Natalie Jennings: Little well, so what's going on with you?

[0:00:31] Audrey Nicole: Well, I mean, it's Valentine's Day.

[0:00:34] Natalie Jennings: It is. People will probably hear this like a month from now, but that's okay. It's raining in Minnesota on Valentine's Day, which is creepy.

[0:00:45] Audrey Nicole: And it's like 40 degrees. It's been so warm all week.

[0:00:49] Natalie Jennings: It's supposed to be like 20 degrees just for people that don't we're supposed to have piles of snow on the ground. This is the deep freeze of winter. Instead it's all melting and it's raining and it's just weird. It's a strange winter.

[0:01:03] Audrey Nicole: Yeah. I'm curious, like, what flooding will be like in the spring, because usually there's certain areas where it just always floods every year. My grandparents farm, for example, and we got so much snow. I don't remember ever seeing this much snow since I was a kid. And now it's rapidly melting.

[0:01:20] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. I wonder if it'll help the flooding, if it's kind of like because it's melting and freezing and melting and freezing. So we got rid of like half of it. I don't know how any of that works.

[0:01:30] Audrey Nicole: Science.

[0:01:31] Natalie Jennings: Science.

[0:01:32] Audrey Nicole: How are you?

[0:01:33] Natalie Jennings: Pretty good. So we usually record every couple of weeks or so and trying to think of anything that's happening since we last spoke in Photo World. I just did some minis. I rented a house.

[0:01:47] Audrey Nicole: Oh, yeah, I saw that and I thought that was so cool that you rented a house.

[0:01:52] Natalie Jennings: It was so cool. And I'm going to for sure do it again because it's such a different vibe than a studio. But now that there's some of these options available where you can actually go into someone's home, it's ideal because it's cozy and it's got like that home feel.

[0:02:09] Audrey Nicole: Yeah. Was it through airbnb and b or was it someone you knew who sells to you?

[0:02:13] Natalie Jennings: It's a client of mine who also posts it on like peer space or whatever.

[0:02:17] Audrey Nicole: Okay.

[0:02:18] Natalie Jennings: And so we traded and then I did the photos there and paid the difference of whatever. I don't even think I paid this time, which is a great deal.

[0:02:29] Audrey Nicole: I feel like my creative wheels are spinning and like, oh, I could find like a really cute little cabin and do so many things. I never really thought about renting a house.

[0:02:39] Natalie Jennings: Do you remember how we started a business called Photospaces?

[0:02:43] Audrey Nicole: Sure. Do you remember how the pandemic started and then ruined everything?

[0:02:49] Natalie Jennings: So for people that don't know this and I still have the LLC and all the accounts and everything, but I started a company right before COVID called Photospaces, and the idea was that photographers could rent out unique spaces. So not studios, cool restaurants, cool houses, cool whatever, and rent those places out to use for, like, one hourish photo shoot. So it was meant for people that do a lot of headshots and things like that. And the broader dream was like, imagine going to any city and just pulling it up and being like, oh, my gosh, look at all these cool places that I could possibly shoot. And peer space is doing that. And airbnb to some extent. But we were kind of digging into some of the cooler, I guess, restaurants and record store. Yeah, record stores, that kind of stuff. Old diners, that kind of thing, just to give people, like, places that are operating as businesses, essentially. And then COVID hit. So that was fun.

[0:03:54] Audrey Nicole: I still think that's such a cool idea. I don't know.

[0:03:57] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, it's a lot of work, but I think I don't know why I'm talking about this to everyone, but I guess we'll see what happens with it if we ever bring it back. I don't know if I'm built to run a business like that, but at the same time, it's like the best businesses solve a problem that you have.

[0:04:16] Audrey Nicole: Yeah.

[0:04:17] Natalie Jennings: And it's definitely a problem.

[0:04:18] Audrey Nicole: Yeah. Especially here in the Midwest when it's like it is outside right now for half the year.

[0:04:27] Natalie Jennings: I know, it's gross. Right now is like the grossest day. It's like dirty snow and it's wet and it's cold. It's just gross. It doesn't matter how hardcore outdoorsy you are, this isn't fun weather period.

[0:04:42] Audrey Nicole: Everything is like one color gray. It's hard to explain, but it's like everything is just kind of this grayish, poopy, brownish gray poopy, brown sky, the snow, the trees. But pretty soon it will be spring.

[0:05:00] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, but anyway, all that to say, it was great fun to shoot in a house, and I'm going to do it again. I did headshots and a couple of small families. One of the things, if you're going to experiment with Minnie's indoors, especially if you're in a crappy weather place, one of the things that was really important that I'm glad that I mentioned in the initial sign up for the mini announcements was groups of six or less. So the last thing you want to do is be in this cute house with nice little couches and spaces and then have a family of eight or ten sign up because there just isn't the space to do that kind of thing unless it's a giant house. Fair enough. You can make that call. But I really don't enjoy shoots bigger than, like, six ish. So I just made that call. And I understand if you have five kids, that sucks. But you have to wait for the outdoor ones then. Or if you want to have extended family, that sucks, too, because I was just really firm on the 6th and it just made it so much less stressful to just know that. The biggest group I had was four. Well, I guess five, the family that owns the house, but one of them is a little baby, so it's not like trying to get like eight adults all posing and I don't know.

[0:06:20] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, it's a disservice to them. If you have them in a space that's not actually going to look good and work for their photos, they should know.

[0:06:29] Natalie Jennings: Yeah.

[0:06:31] Audrey Nicole: I have an indoor extended family. It's a smaller extended family. It's like seven people this weekend.

[0:06:39] Natalie Jennings: Seven is not bad.

[0:06:44] Audrey Nicole: And I kind of explained like, we'll just do some pose stuff, but they really want more documentary style. They're making brunch, playing cards. So we got some activities. Yeah, I'm excited. I haven't done a lot of shooting and I like itching.

[0:06:59] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, me either. Well, I did a story session brunch with a family where I went to their house and it was, I think, like ten of them, but because it was a story session, it was an hour and so there was no pressure. It's like I had the time I needed to set up the shots and kind of really take my time grouping people and that kind of stuff. So I think maybe the point I'm making is if you're going to do mini sessions, mine are 15 minutes and you're going to try and get a huge group of good photos, it's just you don't have the time. So I think there is a difference in the type of shoot you're doing too.

[0:07:40] Audrey Nicole: Right. I feel like this is a good segue into the question that I was going to ask.

[0:07:47] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, I don't even know what your question is. I'm like I don't even know if.

[0:07:52] Audrey Nicole: I know what my question is. I just know that I need some guidance on okay, so for the last couple of years, I feel like every twelve months I go through this midlife crisis, creative crisis type thing where I'm just like, something doesn't feel right, I need to blow it all up. I don't like my editing something's off and I feel like I've figured out the solution, but I don't know how to implement it. And the problem was that there's kind of two types of portrait sessions that I do. One is more of a mini session vibe. They just want quick updated photos at a park. I don't want to say generic.

[0:08:38] Natalie Jennings: That doesn't sound like a few good ones. That was my language. Do you just need a few good ones?

[0:08:46] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, because you'll get those inquiries, but I just need a few good photos for whatever. And that to me, is mini session vibes. And then I have my longer sessions, which are about an hour, but I would get people that kind of wanted that generic in the field posed for an hour, and I just can't do. I don't have that in me. I can get it done in 15 minutes. We don't need the hour. So I was trying to figure out how I can make my longer sessions just have more depth to them. And I'm really leaning into the lifestyle narrative, documentary storytelling vibe, and I really want this year for those sessions to be very curated per client. So I'm planning to do, like, a Zoom planning call with them and a questionnaire and stuff. I just don't know how to pitch this to the client base that I have, because people are so used to me doing things a certain way that I don't know how to get people on board on board with that.

[0:09:55] Natalie Jennings: Your mini clients or your shorter sessions wouldn't be affected by this. But it's your people that are currently booking you for an hour. But they think that they need to be in a field for an hour.

[0:10:06] Audrey Nicole: When you can do it shorter, and they're kind of jennings on me to guide and direct them the whole time for the hour. But really, I want to have something for them to do so that I can just kind of document their interaction, if that's making sense.

[0:10:24] Natalie Jennings: That's exactly what I do. I mean, I broke it down to Minnie's or story sessions, and that's it. And what happened was some of the folks that used to pay me more now just wait for minis. But that's okay, because my mini list is growing like crazy because I have a good pop up for it. It's a great offer, and they sell out every single time, so that's amazing. The story sessions, it's just that over communicating kind of thing we talk about all the time, like making sure it's laid out for them. But I just suggest activities. I say, like, Look, I'll pose you a little bit. We'll get some good ones, like, some more casual good ones of all of you and combinations of you. The same kind of thing I would do in a mini session. So they have, like, directly at camera kind of happy, posy ones, but I just tell them I give them a list of activities and a list of crops. And so, for example, one of my favorite ones I did this year was baking Christmas cookies. So I showed up, and they were all set up to bake, and I just documented about 45 minutes of them baking and laughing, and occasionally I'd be like, look at me. And sometimes I just be focused on details or the dog or whatever. And then the last 15 minutes, I did portraits of the family just on their couch or whatever.

[0:11:43] Audrey Nicole: Okay?

[0:11:44] Natalie Jennings: And it was awesome. It was great. So it's almost like the last 15 minutes, it's like you're working in a mini. Into this other scene, I did a lakeside what are they called? Like a big water slide party for a bunch of kids where they have like a water slide and a bouncy housey, waterslide kind of thing, and like fun little snacks. You can shoot that kind of stuff all day because there's so much going on. But if it's a family, that's like, what do we do? One family, I did just like a sprinkler out in the yard and then they had snacks afterwards. I think another family this summer, I did playing around by they live on a lake, playing around by the water. And then they did a bonfire with marshmallow roasting at the end. And like an hour goes by pretty fast, but also you can get a lot of images in an hour. And then the only differentiator I have so I have three packages. I have a short story session, which is 30 minutes, but it's still like 850 or something like that. So it's still a good price point. And that's just almost like a mini, but at someone's house.

[0:12:52] Natalie Jennings: So I don't try to force an activity, but it's still worth it to me at that price point to within the Metro, go to someone's house for that half. I mean, it's a half an hour. It's just a double mini for a great rate.

[0:13:04] Audrey Nicole: Do you get a lot of people booking the 30 minutes or a lot.

[0:13:07] Natalie Jennings: Of people book that and it's actually okay. Yeah, I'm never like because again, we talked about resentment. There's no resentment if your price point is right. If you're doing it for 450, that's different than like I said, if you double it, you're going to be like, fine with it. And again, I can deliver a lot and so can you in a half an hour. So they're paying for a lot of different levels of value, I guess, like the fact that I can get that many photos in that shorter time, blah, blah, blah, blah. But my other two story sessions are just based on number of images and then like albums included and stuff like that. And they can trade. Some people I offer, like, if you don't want a book, you can just get more images and some people will be like, yeah, we'll take 15 more images instead of the book, or whatever the numbers are.

[0:13:57] Audrey Nicole: So you have the minis a 30 minutes and a 1 hour?

[0:14:00] Natalie Jennings: Yes.

[0:14:00] Audrey Nicole: In your 1 hour you offer a book built into the price?

[0:14:04] Natalie Jennings: Yes. Actually, no, I have a 1 hour and a 90 minutes. So my story sessions are 30, 60, 90. The minis I just think of as like separate, you know.

[0:14:12] Audrey Nicole: Okay.

[0:14:13] Natalie Jennings: And the 30 is just photos same.

[0:14:15] Audrey Nicole: Yep.

[0:14:15] Natalie Jennings: And then the 60 90 have a book involved.

[0:14:19] Audrey Nicole: Okay.

[0:14:19] Natalie Jennings: I have like a higher because I.

[0:14:21] Audrey Nicole: Want to also include a book.

[0:14:22] Natalie Jennings: It's like $2,500. And that's like if you want me to come to your cabin for the afternoon or something. Yeah, or go to the state fair for half the day. It's more like almost like an event or like half of a wedding, right? Because you're there for maybe two or 3 hours and that's a lot of photos, right? I do have a lot of packages, but it really feels simple because minis are just minis and then it's like you just want a story session. People that go for that bottom story session usually do it because they feel like minis are too short or they want to do it somewhere other than the mini park. And even if folks wanted to go to the field, it's still just 30 minutes instead of an hour. And so once we get into that hour mark anything above the hour, I stress really strongly, like you don't want to do this unless you have some kind of activity. You don't need to do this unless you have an activity. This is why. And so I haven't found myself this year at all getting people where you're trying to fill an hour because they just wanted to go to the field because they know that hour isn't necessary. Let's just do the half an hour.

[0:15:26] Audrey Nicole: Yeah. And the hour of just me trying to direct it, it's really draining for me. But I also don't think it's the best for them. And like, we could be spending this time getting some different kinds of photos here that would really be meaningful to you. We can get some of these nicer in the field ones, but then we could be doing something else and I think I need to just work on that for sure. My other pain point is pricing because I've always been someone that shoots for an hour at a set price and then I just give you the gallery with all the good ones.

[0:16:06] Natalie Jennings: Right.

[0:16:06] Audrey Nicole: And every year I've increased my prices more and more. But now this is different. This is a different field. There's more work that goes into it. I want you to get a book. I just want it to be a much higher quality experience. But I feel like I'm going to have to double my price. How do I not scare away all the clientele that I've built when they're expecting this certain thing by doubling my prices? I have certain families that come every year and they do want the 1 hour.

[0:16:38] Natalie Jennings: I think it's communication because my families, once I changed my rate, a lot of my repeat families just went down to that short story session because I told them after years of working with them, I said, trust me, you will get all of the images in this amount of time. We can do this. You're going to get enough if for some reason you're not happy with it, like the next year we'll do longer. But 30 minutes is going to be more than enough time to get what you need. We used to do an hour. This is why I don't and the other reason I gave people for not doing an hour. So they get 15. I'm looking at my price, the short story session. They get 15 images to download and keep all of my story sessions, I give them proofing options. So they're looking at a proofing gallery and they're choosing their favorites. And then I'm going in and editing them. Whereas, like you and I have talked about, we've done episodes. Go back and check on these too, if you're interested. We've done episodes on how we run minis and it's really nice just to edit the mini. Give them 50, 40 images, whatever, they get ten.

[0:17:41] Natalie Jennings: And if they want to buy all of them, fine. But that extra 15 minutes of editing doesn't really it's worth it for how many people buy the whole gallery. And sending people and coordinating proofing galleries is a nightmare. If you have 25 minis in two weeks or something, or even ten minis, it's just like a lot. So I don't do proofing with minis, but I do proofing with all three of my story sessions, the short, the regular hour and the 90 minutes. And that's amazing because people just look at their gallery and they're like, they choose ones that I would never choose. Sometimes I'm like, Why did they want that one? But you forget that they're choosing for emotion and you're choosing for aesthetic because you're a photographer and you don't yeah, anyway, all that to say. So they get 15. They can buy more for 15 each. So my average short story client spends the initial fee, plus they usually buy usually five to ten more photos. Sometimes a lot more photos. Sometimes people ask me, can we just have the whole gallery? And then I give them a rate for that. And it's usually about the cost of the shoot.

[0:18:41] Natalie Jennings: So it's like, I'm never feeling resentful about what I'm doing because 15 images is like, really fun to edit too, because you know that they love them and you're like, oh, I get to edit just 15.

[0:18:55] Audrey Nicole: Yeah. For someone who maybe isn't familiar with what proofing is, that means you get home, you call down to the best ones and you don't edit them, but you put them in a gallery for the client to see. And then the client can go through and pick the number amount that they get, plus extras if they decide they want extras. And then you just edit those ones and deliver.

[0:19:19] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, and not just because Pick Time is a sponsor, but because I love Pick Time. Pick Time offers an amazing proofing capability that interfaces with lightroom so you can share the gallery connected to lightroom. They can pick their favorites. Let's say they pick 20 instead of 15. I sync it up and I can see the 20 in lightroom that they picked in Pick Time, which is brilliant. So it's all ready to go, ready to edit. Then I usually just send them a PayPal me link for the additional images. They'll say, We've chosen our finals. We've got some extras in there. And then I'll say, Great, here's the link to your extras. Once that's paid, I'll start editing. And that's my process. It's so easy. They almost always choose more than what's included, but not always. And I'm still not resentful of that because 15 is a great number to edit.

[0:20:10] Natalie Jennings: You're not editing a bajillion because in 30 minutes, I shoot a lot. So I also try to take the workload off of them a little, so when I am calling for proofs, I really try to get rid of as many duplicates and crappy photos as possible. I really try to curate it so that it is a good gallery that they see, even though it's unedited. Does that make sense? That's good. Yeah.

[0:20:32] Audrey Nicole: No, that makes total sense when it comes to the clientele that I have and making this drastic change on them, probably doubling my price, what do you suggest I do too? Because it's not a pricing issue. I think I'm not doing a good enough job explaining the value of what I'm going to offer them, because if they understood how valuable it was, I don't think the price would be as much of a shock.

[0:20:59] Natalie Jennings: And if you offer something like, my short story session is at the same price point as my hour used to be, so people might go like, oh, I'm only getting 30 minutes, and I'm paying the same as I used to pay for an hour. That might bother, like, one in every 25 people, but honestly, if they know you and you've worked with them before, I feel like, for me, they trust me and they love their photos. And so if yeah, so if I say to them, look, this is just so much more time efficient for me, it's less for you and the kids, because a lot of times people are like, oh, that was perfect. We don't need to do this for because you an hour is long for people unless they have something to do. Yeah, I mean, an hour gets to be I mean, don't do a lot of 90 minutes. The 90 minutes ones I've done were that brunch I told you about. I think I might have said it was an hour, but we did 90 minutes, and that was perfect because they were making a whole meal and eating it. But if they didn't have that to do, I would have been done in 20 minutes. I think people will understand, but I did hit a little bump with all of I had ten years of clients that were like, oh, so now I only get 15 images, or, Now I only get 30 images. And I just had to explain to them very clearly, for me to edit all of the images that you were getting before 50, 60, 70 or more is not efficient. But I've also found that folks, when they go to print things generally only use like, ten to 20 images. They don't use more than that. And so I would tell them that over and over and over. I would say my research in ten years of doing this is that most people don't need more than 15 to 30 images. And so it wasn't just time efficient for me.

[0:22:44] Natalie Jennings: So try it this way. You'll probably see that you get just as many that you're happy with and you can always buy more if you want, and they like knowing they can buy more. But there were only a couple of people that were a little like, right, and I'm sure I've lost a couple of people. I mean, I can definitely think of people I haven't heard from, but I've also gained a lot of, you know, I mean, I think it's you're always going to kind of have to play that game, but I think yeah, oh.

[0:23:06] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, this is great. The wheels are turning. I'm also wondering because I did a 30 minutes session last year and I wasn't my favorite. It was kind of like, okay, these are just an extra long mini session, but I can see the value from the clients end. And I wonder if I just offered like a 30 minutes to any past clients, but future clients, I really just want minis.

[0:23:33] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, and you can totally do that because I allow people to double book minis. So I say, like, if you think you need more time, you're welcome to book two minis back to back. Right. And if you have more than six people, I recommend that you do that. So I actually have a few clients that meet me at the park, and we do a half an hour because they're booking back to back minis and that's great. The thing that the 30 minutes provided me with was, again, that price point. It kept a lot of people at the same price point, but they had less time with me, but they were still happy. And then it also was enough money to make it worth my time to go to their house. Like, a lot of people just wanted to be at their house. So that was like the big, okay, so it's like someone could do two minis in a row and they're at the park because you can't choose that because that's how many's work. Or someone might be like, my grandparents are in town and they're going to hang out with the new baby, and we'd love to be in our backyard and we don't need a ton of photos. Okay, we'll do 30 minutes in your backyard. And that was a great price point because I never felt again, within the Twin Cities, I'm not driving really far, but I never felt resentful going to their house for 30 minutes to do something like that. It's nothing.

[0:24:40] Audrey Nicole: Is your 30 minutes, then the price of too many sessions?

[0:24:43] Natalie Jennings: No, the price of too many sessions is less, but the 30 minutes is just a little bit more. I mean, everything about minis is value. That's why people are, like, jumping all over them, right?

[0:24:52] Audrey Nicole: Yes.

[0:24:53] Natalie Jennings: But it's close. Yeah.

[0:24:55] Audrey Nicole: Okay, cool. This helps a lot.

[0:24:58] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. Between that 650 and 850 range for 30 minutes, I find is great.

[0:25:03] Audrey Nicole: Yeah.

[0:25:04] Natalie Jennings: And then, let's see, my 1 hour is 950 and my 90 minutes is 1450. And that's last year's prices. So I think we're going to go 850, like 1150. And maybe a little like I'm going to bump them a little bit because I was so busy last year.

[0:25:20] Audrey Nicole: I'm excited to after thanks to this, by the way.

[0:25:25] Natalie Jennings: This is the thing that I was struggling with. Yeah. I was super struggling with this coming out of COVID I was like, how can I get away from going to a park for an hour? Because people think they need an hour at a park because they're not, quote unquote, doing anything. You're just in a field and it's a bajillion photos, and it's a pain in the ass to edit because they're not proofing anything. So you're editing, like so many all around. It's just you get resentful because you're not making enough money in that scenario for your time.

[0:25:55] Audrey Nicole: Right. And usually by the end of the hour, people are a little cranky. You can just feel that it's longer than it needs to be.

[0:26:03] Natalie Jennings: So much longer.

[0:26:03] Audrey Nicole: You really can just be like, okay, now what? Now let's go over here and do the exact same thing we did over here, but in this spot. Because what else are we going to do? Yeah.

[0:26:11] Natalie Jennings: And if you're a fast shooter like we are, all you have to do is say, like, yeah.

[0:26:14] Audrey Nicole: Yes.

[0:26:15] Natalie Jennings: Hey, if you'd like anything beyond 30 minutes, the way it works is we pick a couple of activities. It could be as simple as chalk and bubbles in the driveway, but there must be some things going on in addition to just me being there. Maybe we walk to the park or something. Like, there just has to be something movie night, whatever. Maybe not at night, but movie evening. So you have nice light.

[0:26:37] Audrey Nicole: Yeah.

[0:26:37] Natalie Jennings: And people are really receptive to that. They're like, oh, and that's why I have books in that hour long and 90 minutes. One, because books books and storytelling work really well together, so it ends up looking really pretty well. Hopefully that helps some people. And you helped one person. Oh, it feels good, though, because I actually this last year was the first year that I didn't show up to shoot feeling resentful. I was like, I felt like everything was going the way it finally felt. Like, that stuff that stickiness. You're like this shoot.

[0:27:10] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, that's what I've been feeling.

[0:27:12] Natalie Jennings: And I always talk people down. A lot of people are like, why would you tell someone to pay less? Well, if. Someone's like, do you think we need 90 minutes? I'll be like, no, I think you'll be fine with 60. Right? Just for a little extra money. I'm not going to put myself through extra shooting or other I'm going to be honest with people. I think that always goes better.

[0:27:34] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, totally. What are you working on this week? This year?

[0:27:39] Natalie Jennings: Well, I am going to tweak what we just talked about a little bit, meaning like pricing and maybe just like the type and quality of the books included. I might just play around with an Ala Carte thing, but for the most part I'm going to leave everything kind of as it is. I'm going to try and do more studio experimenting. So like the house that I just shot at for minis, I'm going to try and do more fun indoor stuff in all of the seasons except for the fall. Because the fall is beautiful, the light is beautiful. I love being outside in the fall and it's rare that you have to reschedule anything. But the rest of the year I'm interested in playing around with some indoor settings because it gives me more time in the day. I can shoot because I don't mind shooting at any time of day if it's indoors, that bright sunlight doesn't bother me. Yeah, just kind of having like a different thing to do. Let's try out some different studio rentals and different houses and stuff like that and just see how it goes. That's about it. And then pushing my head photo a little bit more again because I really enjoy that.

[0:28:41] Audrey Nicole: I was just talking to someone about indoor shoots and I'm like I honestly love indoor shoots because I just feel like you can just be a lot more creative. I love doing in home stuff because every home is different, every location is different. You have to find the nooks and crannies that work in each space and I don't know, it's just not cookie cutter. I love doing indoor stuff and the light falls.

[0:29:07] Natalie Jennings: So just the way light falls through windows and people's houses, you just get these really lovely moments. And I think that's maybe a tricky thing to communicate to people is like really making sure they understand that they will get some posy pictures in a story session. But that what it's really about, showing that it's about like these little moments and making sure that they can see that. Because you don't want a family that just expects super posy posy stuff and doesn't like any of your artsy beam of light falling on a hand kind of vibe or whatever, you know what I mean? Yeah. So just making sure you have good examples, I think to show people is helpful.

[0:29:50] Audrey Nicole: Awesome.

[0:29:51] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, no, I mean I'm not doing too much with photo this year so I'm just going to let it ride. I am going to dig in the Anomie's Simple sales system a little bit and see if maybe that'll be my big change, because that's going to be a big, big change. But I don't know if that will be this year or maybe next year.

[0:30:07] Audrey Nicole: Really nice to be in a place where you can just let the wheel spin. I feel like I'm really close to that too. Of just like I have a few more things to figure out and then I'm just going to let the business go for a while.

[0:30:19] Natalie Jennings: It's great.

[0:30:20] Audrey Nicole: I'm ready for that.

[0:30:21] Natalie Jennings: You've built a beautiful job for yourself that you like, that you control. I love that it feels easier. It feels much more open and easy than it ever has. I feel like all of these years of doing this and again, I can't stress enough for people listening. I have to say this because it just drives me nuts. As an educator, you have to try out stuff and figure out what works for you. You might be listening. Going 30 minutes is never enough for me. Well, then don't do that if you need time and you're like a slow shooter. It's just different than how I shoot. So make sure that you're experimenting until it feels good but feels good for you. I could tell you exactly what I do. Not you necessarily, but anybody listening and just might not be for you.

[0:31:07] Audrey Nicole: Yes, that's such good advice. That goes for anything in life. You don't just copy what you see. You can try, get inspiration and try something that someone else does. And you have to try, and then you have to decide if it actually works for you or not.

[0:31:22] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, amen. All right, cool. Well, thanks, Audrey. I'll talk to you soon. Yeah, okay, bye.