[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the house. There's like four or 5%

[00:00:08] Andrew Brown: if the makeup of women in construction, or at least you know, out in the field. And it's just, it's mind boggling because the opportunities are there for them as long as we provide support and they feel comfortable. And then, and there's things that need to be addressed on the job site, and I'm not gonna go into that.

[00:00:25] Andrew Brown: But yeah, to make them feel comfortable, to make them feel supported. I mean, they're. Of women that I know on LinkedIn that I'm good friends with. They're doing amazing work. Amazing work, and they're inspiring others and other women to get into the trades. But again, that is too, that's looked upon as that women, you know, are not, they're the feeling of the women are not supported in that we need to do a better job to support them and make them feel comfortable.

[00:00:54] Andrew Brown: When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a. [00:01:00] Are you covered?

[00:01:02] Eric Goranson: This

[00:01:03] Andrew Brown: is around the

[00:01:04] Eric Goranson: house. Welcome to The Round the House Show. This is where we help you get the most outta your home through information and education. Thanks for joining us today, by the way. This episode is brought to you by Root Quencher in root quencher.com.

[00:01:18] Eric Goranson: If you've got trees, shrubs, bushes, and you're wasting water when you're watering 'em, or you want to cut it back, check out root quencher.com. Those guys. Have spikes that put water right into the roots and not all over the top where it runs down the hill and doesn't end up where you want it to. If you wanna save money, go to root quencher.com.

[00:01:36] Eric Goranson: Today we are gonna talk about something that is this massive tidal wave that only a handful of people are talking about, and we've got Andrew Brown here. Tool fetch, but we're talking the trades today rather. Thanks for coming on around the house today, Eric. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it, man. This is such a big deal and I don't think we can talk about it enough [00:02:00] because I tell you what, I can't tell you how many times I'm seeing in schools, in high schools specifically right now.

[00:02:06] Eric Goranson: They've taken all the trades where they've removed them completely out of so many programs. Kids get forced to go to college cuz it's the right thing to do. And after spending a hundred grand in a college education, they get out and say, Hey, I'm gonna go join the electrical union, or I'm gonna go drive the Mason Union.

[00:02:24] Eric Goranson: And they get into the trades and now they got a hundred thousand dollars bill that they really didn't need to have. It's crazy. What's your take on this? I mean, it, it's happening

[00:02:33] Andrew Brown: all over and you understand why there is this, uh, skilled trades gap, right? There's, there's 40% of men and women retiring or are at the retirement age in the next five or 10 years.

[00:02:48] Andrew Brown: That are leaving the industry, leaving their trade. And there's a lot of people who are not coming in. There's not enough. So there's seven to eight trades people leaving. There's one or two maybe coming [00:03:00] in and it's really, yeah. What's being pushed to the younger individuals? What's, what's the message that's being pushed?

[00:03:08] Andrew Brown: And it's interesting when young, the younger generation, when they're sitting down before they, they sign on that data line for college, is there guidance counselor saying, you know, There's another opportunity. There's maybe a skilled trades path, and I don't feel that's being spoken about because I do feel that that's not, teachers and guidance counselors are the best marketers for college, right?

[00:03:32] Andrew Brown: Mm-hmm. And if kids have the right information, maybe, maybe they'll consider a skilled trades path instead of spending a hundred thousand dollars, not every school, but around a hundred thousand dollars. You know, go to, you know, trade school and spend, yeah. Less amount of money and for less amount of time.

[00:03:52] Andrew Brown: And you could be working in an apprenticeship and making money at the same time.

[00:03:58] Eric Goranson: It's incredible. And I call it, [00:04:00] I call it the big business of the college education, and the best salespeople right now seem to be the high school teachers and guidance counselors these days. And I think they're doing such a disservice and.

[00:04:13] Eric Goranson: And another show a couple years ago, I brought up the, the concept that I've been waving the flag for a while is that, you know, if you and I go down and get a car loan and you and I walk down or get a house loan and get a mortgage, we have to kind of prove a business plan on how we're gonna pay that back.

[00:04:28] Eric Goranson: Right. So I would love to see that happen with a college education where, okay, I'm applying to go to college. And I wish they would ask a couple questions and say, all right, when you get out, what's the game plan for your career? Because there's so many people going out and getting one, I'm gonna, and I'm not gonna go after a certain group here, but what I call generally junk degrees.

[00:04:51] Eric Goranson: Cuz I see them working at Starbucks and, and other places after they've spent this stuff. I wish they could actually sit there and say, Hey, uh, [00:05:00] what's the game plan to pay this back and maybe start a discussion? Maybe this isn't for me, and maybe I should get into the trades where I can actually be much better off and live a more comfortable lifestyle outside of my work environment.

[00:05:14] Eric Goranson: Yeah, and I could attest for

[00:05:15] Andrew Brown: this because I went to college for four years and I was more confused when I came outta school. And when I was in school, I started off as a programmer. I was doing c plus plus on the on, on the weekends and looking at myself and looking for people around me. It's like, what are I doing?

[00:05:30] Andrew Brown: Why am I taking advanced calculus? Yeah. Then I went into business, then I might into finance. Then I went into it, and then I had this life-changing events on nine 11, which put me in a different path for, yeah, selling tools to the skilled trades. And it, it, it's just, I feel like sometimes you just don't get all the answers and you're just kind of going from major to major.

[00:05:55] Andrew Brown: And there are a lot of individuals, especially friends who came outta school and not [00:06:00] happy with what they're doing. They're just not happy. Or they switch completely and they do something completely different. But you've already put in tremendous amount of investment into your education, but you're, you go into something different.

[00:06:12] Andrew Brown: And I see that happening often.

[00:06:15] Eric Goranson: Oh. It is. It is. It's crazy and, and it's, I think we've gotta really start with younger kids of getting them in school, using their hands on stuff and teaching some common sense stuff because you know, those wood shop days really figured out if you were good at working your hands and if there was a passion there.

[00:06:34] Eric Goranson: Cuz I know so many people in doing what you and I do. I go back and, you know, I'm in my early fifties, but I go back and say, when did you figure out, oh, it was wood shop? Cuz I, I loved what I was doing. I was creating something, or it was the mechanic shop or whatever, metal shop, welding, whatever that was back in, you know, in that middle school slash high school age that we've just yanked that outta the [00:07:00] schools and made those things, you know, computer labs or whatever else, but.

[00:07:03] Eric Goranson: All those things are needed, but I, we've just created this huge skills gap, which is now hurting the public moving forward. I mean, it's great if you're gonna go into the trades because as you know, as an electrician, you can go out and make six figures and work anywhere in the country. But Mr. And Mrs.

[00:07:18] Eric Goranson: Homeowner that have to hire the el, hire the electrician, go, wow, why is that so expensive?

[00:07:25] Andrew Brown: Where are all the shop classes? Where did they go? What happened? Right. I don't, I don't remember taking a shop class. Right. I'm not too far behind you, but I don't remember taking a shot class. And if a kid has a mechanical ability or a technical spark, maybe that gets defined in a shot class that they wouldn't have noticed unless they took the shock class.

[00:07:49] Andrew Brown: But the shock class is not there. Maybe they just go to college and they do something else. So I'm all for bringing chalk classes back into schools. On top of, if you don't go into [00:08:00] a skilled trade, you can use those skills. They're lifelong skills, which you can apply to stuff around your house. Cause I know people that won't touch anything.

[00:08:09] Andrew Brown: Right. They're not, oh yeah, I'm not, I'm not touching anything. Look, there's something to be said about something electrical and you just don't, you don't really know. And then you bring in an electrician. But there's such opportunities in the skilled trades in all these different areas. And if you apply yourself and you ride that ladder of success by attaching yourself to people who have been there and done that through mentorship.

[00:08:36] Andrew Brown: I mean, it's just unbelievable what's available today in this window of life. And

[00:08:41] Eric Goranson: you'll never be without work, right? You'll never be without work. Because I tell you what, with our massive skills gap, that there is no quick fix to this. It's going to be a generational fix, right? I mean, we can't fix this tomorrow.

[00:08:55] Eric Goranson: You know what I mean? Because we're, we just have so many people that we, we don't have the, the programs [00:09:00] even out there available to fix it, let alone the, the people to fill those programs. And if you're a kid right now and you're, you know, let's say if you're a parent listening to this show right now, or a grandparent, this is something that should be explored because I tell you what, you can go out and be an electrician and in a few years you're making more than the school teachers are with less debt.

[00:09:23] Andrew Brown: With a lot less debt, with a lot less debt. With a lot less debt. And it's a shorter period of time, right? So you spent four years, maybe five years in college, you're ahead of the game. With less debt and not just in volume. And then, you know, I always say eventually maybe you buy a home, you get a mortgage that's more debt and more debt.

[00:09:43] Andrew Brown: More debt and it's just, you just can't get outta it. So it's a great opportunity for someone who really wants to to be in go that

[00:09:49] Eric Goranson: path. You know, Andrew, there are some great groups out there as well there. There are some small programs out there, like we have here in my Portland metro area [00:10:00] where I'm at, we have a group out in Forest Grove where they teach building houses to kids.

[00:10:04] Eric Goranson: And I mean every school year they frame a house and then the next school year they finish it, sell it to refund the program again. And they call it the Viking House cuz it's the Vikings, that's the school mascot. But every couple years they're building a home. That is a beautiful model. We have a forestry program down here that is in a little town called Sweet Home out here, which is just the base of the.

[00:10:29] Eric Goranson: The Cascade Mountains, where they've had a guy that's been doing YouTube videos, manly Jobs, Blake Manley, who just left that school district, but there's like a hundred kids in this little town on this forestry program. And I'm out there doing a news story on 'em for my TV show. And I see these high school kids wearing climbing gear to go climb electrical poles so they know how to climb trees and, and be linemen or work in forestry.

[00:10:54] Eric Goranson: And I'm like, I've never seen climbing gear. And like pole climbing [00:11:00] gear in a high school. And the kids are walking across to the sports field over there where they put a bunch of poles in. That's amazing. And they're out there getting ready to go, go to class. And they've got, you know, they, what I thought was cool is they get logs donated.

[00:11:13] Eric Goranson: So the lumber class cuts it up into like a sawmill. They get it ready and that wood now goes to the wood shop class. And so they're self-funding themselves with that. They sell some of it, and now kids that are low end can go get getting, get into shop class without any overhead. So there's ways to do it.

[00:11:33] Eric Goranson: It's not that

[00:11:34] Andrew Brown: hard. It isn't. It isn't. And exposing kids like that is truly amazing and getting real hands-on experience. That eventually they can go into a trade or, or, or be a line or, or an attrition or another trade. These are things that need to be put in and thought of and thinking outside the box.

[00:11:55] Andrew Brown: Right? Because it's not working. We're getting better. We're making [00:12:00] an impact. Through your podcast, your TV shows, right? Through my messaging, through videos and other people's podcasts, we're, we're, we're doing, everyone's doing their piece. But we need more of an impact overall, whether it's the administration.

[00:12:16] Andrew Brown: And it's interesting when you talk about what we want to do as, uh, as a country, we wanna fix up our infrastructure, where our infrastructure has a C minus rating, right? Yeah. A C minus rating. How do you get to an A plus if no one wants the job? What are we doing in that, right? Who are you gonna get to do the job?

[00:12:34] Andrew Brown: It's wonderful. You wanna spend money on buildings and bridges and tunnels and roads and everything in between. That's wonderful. So you need people to do the job and you need to work on the messaging side, and you need to get to the younger generation to be interested. In the trades because I think they have a depiction or a thought or an old adage that they keep hearing, oh, it's low wage.

[00:12:55] Andrew Brown: Oh, it's, it's dirty. Oh, it's, you know, it's plan B for the bad [00:13:00] kids. It's all, you know, it's just, it's all through messaging and I think people just need the right information and also really starts in our household too, what parents are speaking to kids about. And it's just, you know, it's an all hands on deck

[00:13:13] Eric Goranson: effort.

[00:13:15] Eric Goranson: I wanna address Andrew, the, the, the dirty part of it because it's such a myth. I mean, I know plumbers out there that for the last 20 years, all they've done is go out and build new homes and they're out there, you know, outdoors. They're outdoor people. They're out there, you know, plumbing up new houses.

[00:13:34] Eric Goranson: They're not getting wet, they're not playing with sewage. They're out there just putting homes together and building homes. And I know electricians that work, um, out here at Intel and they're in a clean room wiring up stuff, you know, dressed in a white suit jacket like any other tech worker doing wiring.

[00:13:51] Eric Goranson: So you could also be a drain person and get in there and get dirty every day if you want to. So really, you are in control as the student [00:14:00] of where you wanna go, cuz the jobs are there. Right.

[00:14:04] Andrew Brown: The opportunities are there, but I, again, this goes back to people thinking, is this a guy in a wheelbarrow pushing this whole dusty wheelbarrow on a job site?

[00:14:12] Andrew Brown: Well, that's not necessarily true. There are a lot of different options and paths that you can take and you can figure out if you want to be a welder, an electrician, a plumber, carpenter, and so on and so on. Um, but it goes back to that old. You know, adage of, you know, you think of skilled trades, you think of dirty hands, dirty fingernails, um, you know, and working with your hands and, and that seems to always be looked down upon.

[00:14:39] Andrew Brown: I don't really understand where that kind of shifted. It just didn't happen just at one moment in time. It just slowly, you know, started getting to this point where people just look at and they say, nah, that's.

[00:14:54] Eric Goranson: Yeah, and I think, I think part of that has been that, um, you know, it goes back into schools. It really does.

[00:14:59] Eric Goranson: You know, [00:15:00] that, uh, at one point we lost respect for the craftsperson out there, and I think that transferred into our schools because people weren't going to college. I mean, I saw something happen years ago here, it's probably seven or eight years ago at a trade event where it was, uh, you know, skills trade day at a high school, and the, and the principal sits there to the plumber and goes, All right, kids.

[00:15:21] Eric Goranson: Uh, we got the plumber coming up next to talk to you. If you don't do your schoolwork right, you could be a plumber. The plumber walks out and goes, Hey, by the way, um, you gotta see my truck out front. I actually make more than your principal does every year. So, uh, if you don't do your stuff right, you could be a high school principal dealing with you kids every day.

[00:15:38] Eric Goranson: Wow. That is a great response. Yeah. It was just shots fired. But that is just part of the root of the problem, right? Yes.

[00:15:46] Andrew Brown: Yes. There is that, there is that feeling. Um, when you also, when you tell, like you said, you tell someone you're a plumber or an electrician. Some, some people look at you like, huh, You know, it's just that kind of, that you could sense that it's like, oh, [00:16:00] well, okay.

[00:16:01] Andrew Brown: But they don't understand that everything, they do, everything in your house, your sink, your shower, your dishwasher, your heat, your, you know, ac, everything is controlled and managed and, uh, fixed by the people in the skilled trades. And if they disappeared, yeah, if they disappeared tomorrow, you'll be in a really bad spot and you can't take for granted the people that provide the most value and on top of it, keep our economy going.

[00:16:30] Eric Goranson: Yeah. That's gonna be one of the biggest things, because right now, you know, we're, we're seeing such a huge skills gap. I, I mean, looking for it. It's growing quickly. It's not getting smaller even though people like you are out there waving the flag. You know, it's, this is a tidal wave that's coming at us that's just unaddressed by many people out there.

[00:16:51] Eric Goranson: And there's a lot of great people talking about it. Don't get Mero wrong, the Mike Rose of the world and, and those people out there that are also waving the flag trying to do what they [00:17:00] can, but it's, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a five gallon bucket in the Pacific Ocean of what we need to do out there.

[00:17:07] Eric Goranson: And one of the secrets, I think it's amazing out there too, is that it, it's not addressed is, The women in the trades is so amazing right now, seeing how that has shifted so much recently, there's

[00:17:21] Andrew Brown: like four or 5% if the makeup of women in construction, or at least you know, out in the field, and it's just, it's mind boggling because the opportunities are there for them as long as we provide support.

[00:17:36] Andrew Brown: And they feel comfortable. And then, and there's things that need to be addressed on the job site, and I'm not gonna go into that. But no, to make them feel comfortable, to make them feel supported. I mean, there are women that I know on LinkedIn that I'm good friends with. They're doing amazing work.

[00:17:51] Andrew Brown: Amazing work. And they're inspiring others and other women. To get into the trades. But again, that is too, that's [00:18:00] looked upon as that women, you know, are not, the, the feeling of the women are not supported in that we need to do a better job to support women, make them feel comfortable, you know, give them the skills that they need to do.

[00:18:12] Andrew Brown: But that's almost untapped. Imagine if you can, oh, its, imagine if that was. You bumped it up to 20% of you know are

[00:18:20] Eric Goranson: women. Right. You know? Right. And and the funny part of this is too, is that, that we're starting to see not, not only the funny part, but the good thing that's happening now is you're starting to see Workwear companies address it.

[00:18:32] Eric Goranson: Right. You know, you've got companies out there that are making job site year for women. That's not just a small men's piece. Right. You know, you've got the people like Keen Utility out there that are making work boots that actually fit women. And there's a lot of other companies similar to that, and this isn't a commercial for them, but we're starting to see that change, which, which brings more opportunity for women out there because, you know, I'm not gonna speak for [00:19:00] women in this at all, but the last thing they need to see out there is pink vests and pink clothes and stuff like that.

[00:19:05] Eric Goranson: They wanna be treated as equals, and we're making progress, but we've got to do better.

[00:19:11] Andrew Brown: Yes. And that's just the combined effort and that's just, that's a work in progress. And then it's, it's just piece by piece by piece and slowly changing that old adage over. It's just, it's, it is not one thing that's going to make it work, but what you said, these little things all help and all, you know, it all comes together and will get us to that, that next step or that next level.

[00:19:39] Eric Goranson: And by the way, ladies, here's another little tip in secret for you out there. If you look at people in the trades out there, in the skilled trades, whether you're a tile setter, a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, H V a C tech, if you get into the trades and open up a social media channel, the, the showing what you do every day, the more than most of the guys are that have been there for [00:20:00] 25 years.

[00:20:01] Eric Goranson: Exactly. They're doing well. Yes.

[00:20:03] Andrew Brown: Yes they are. Yes, they are. Now, showcasing your work is the most important thing. What you do inspires other, you don't realize that, and especially on social media, even though you don't get a like or comment, there are people watching that just inspiring. And more women were out there showcasing what they were doing.

[00:20:22] Andrew Brown: More women would eventually be inspired, say, wow, I can do that. And that's just, it's amazing to see that, and it's inspirational.

[00:20:31] Eric Goranson: And you know, some of the ones that inspire me out there, there's um, Shannon, who goes by that tile chick on social media and people go, oh, women can't. She is like four foot 11 and out there carrying around big pieces of large format tile and doing the job that a lot of guys can't, and, and doing a wonderfully skilled job doing it.

[00:20:54] Eric Goranson: So a lot of those things that people go, oh, they just can't, no. [00:21:00] Luckily those days are getting over.

[00:21:02] Andrew Brown: Yeah. Now I watch, uh, sometimes I watch Barbie, the welder, I don't know if you're familiar with that. She's

[00:21:07] amazing.

[00:21:08] Eric Goranson: I'm just like, oh my gosh,

[00:21:09] Andrew Brown: watching these sculptures. I'm like, how do you do that? Like, there's such, do such talent and it's just that she's inspired so many people behind that.

[00:21:19] Andrew Brown: Mm-hmm. I actually, I did a video off it because I was just showcasing what she did, and it was just, yeah, the outpour of the comments and. The supporters, that's what

[00:21:28] Eric Goranson: you need out there. Yeah. Yeah. There's a program here in in Oregon that, uh, I've been supportive of for a long time, since its beginning. And, uh, it's a girls build.

[00:21:39] Eric Goranson: And so Katie Hughes goes out and does camps all year round for girls from like eight to 13, and they bring the trades in, so they're gonna show 'em. There's eight year old kids out there, little girls. Spending sheet metal creating duct work. They're, they're, they're doing electrical projects, they're building [00:22:00] stuff, and we're not talking just like, Hey, we're gonna do the Home Depot birdhouse, but they're actually out there building stuff.

[00:22:04] Eric Goranson: And they do a trades camp for a week? Yeah, it gets sold out in hours. She actually, a lot of times, has to do the signups at like midnight on a Tuesday just so people can have an opportunity to get in there because. It just fills up so quickly.

[00:22:19] Andrew Brown: Yeah. I also see, um, there's a woman by the name of Jamie McMillan.

[00:22:24] Andrew Brown: Um, she's mostly on LinkedIn. She's up in Canada. She's an iron worker and she's so inspirational, just watching. Cause she, she works with, uh, young kids and showing them what they can do and it's making an impact. It's making a huge impact. And again, just watching it, it's just, I, it's amazing.

[00:22:44] Eric Goranson: Yep. And we have to give a shout out too to some of the guys out there, like our buddy Roger Wakefield.

[00:22:49] Eric Goranson: Sure. You know, Roger's out there just trying to promote the trades as as much as he can out there. And, uh, if there's, he's, he's a, an up and coming guy that [00:23:00] is really doing well. But as far as getting out there and really trying to promote the trades and plumbing in specific with him, you know, he talk about a guy that created his own plumbing company and turned it into such a massive, big thing.

[00:23:15] Eric Goranson: And again, he's a guy that just went out and said, Hey, I'm gonna do this, and has done really well doing it.

[00:23:20] Andrew Brown: Well, it's, it's interesting you say that because I'm a big, uh, I have a lot of respect for Roger Wakefield and actually will be on his podcast a little bit later in the year, and he's just, I've seen him grow, grow from 20,000 followers in on YouTube to like, I mean, he's just, yeah, I, it's, yeah.

[00:23:41] Andrew Brown: Amazing.

[00:23:41] Eric Goranson: Be done. Yeah's great. He showed up like five years ago before he got going in one of my seminars at the National Association of Home Builders. And I was down at the, uh, design and construction week and he was an audience member and I just, he stuck out to me and I'm like, this cat's got something different going on here.

[00:23:58] Eric Goranson: And I went over and started talking to [00:24:00] him. And we've been friends. Uh, during Covid I had to go down to Dallas, uh, to pick up our puppy from our old next door neighbor who had their dog had puppies. And this was. Smack dab in the middle of Covid. You could get on a plane, but like when I stayed in downtown Dallas, I was the only person in the hotel.

[00:24:15] Eric Goranson: Wow. My wife and I were, we had the hotel to ourself, but we went up and did videos with Roger in his place up at there, at, uh, at at Green Plumbing. And it was a lot of fun in the early days. And that was what? Four years, three years ago. So again, it's just so fun to watch people like that grow and he's making an impact as well, like you said, and uh, and he's just getting started in this world.

[00:24:37] Eric Goranson: Well, it

[00:24:37] Andrew Brown: shows what you can do above and beyond just being someone in the trades. And giving back. And he gives back to, obviously he shows you how to build your plumbing business and he's supportive of the trades, but it just shows that you can be a business owner, you can be on social media, you can help others, you can be inspirational, and he's just, he's your prime example of what success looks like in [00:25:00] the trades.

[00:25:01] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And, uh, talk about taking a skilled trade and then just expanding it. And, you know, making it 20 times what it was. He just keeps getting bigger and bigger and, uh, I think there's gonna be a lot of great things coming from him in the future. And we, we get, we need about, about a hundred more of those out there to make this happen.

[00:25:21] Andrew Brown: Yeah, we do, we do, you know, keep putting out, uh, the messaging and keep, uh, keep making an impact. And keep trying to change, uh, you know, the old messaging about the, the skilled trades. And we'll get there. Yeah.

[00:25:35] Eric Goranson: Confidence. Well, so what's your, what is your take on, how do we get this started? How do we get this cruise ship turned around in this little canal?

[00:25:42] Eric Goranson: Because it, it's at times, it seems like we got about a 42 point turn to get this thing turned around where we're actually gonna start making headway and gain on this instead of, of losing ground because, I can, I, I can name an el, I could go to any electrical company in my city right [00:26:00] now and say, Hey, I'm a licensed electrician.

[00:26:02] Eric Goranson: If I was, I'm looking for a job, and they'd ask me when do I start? Mm-hmm.

[00:26:08] Andrew Brown: Yeah, we're coming ahead. Right? We're we're getting to the breaking point, right? Or if we're that there we're gonna be there very soon and Exactly. We need to, it, it there. There's no one thing that's going to say, you know, snap of the finger.

[00:26:22] Andrew Brown: Oh my God. They have. Endless amounts of people. You can maybe do that with women and get more women involved. Um, you can do that on the messaging side. Look, we still need to get everyone else on board. I, I, again, this goes back to the messaging in schools. We need to, guidance counselors need to be sitting down with kids and laying down the options, not just college.

[00:26:44] Andrew Brown: And I'm, I, I am a supporter of college. But sure. Maybe it's,

[00:26:48] Eric Goranson: I want, I want my doctor to go to college. Right? Right. I want my, I want my surgeon to have like the best degree known to mankind, but I just don't think my plumber needs that humanities degree.

[00:26:57] Andrew Brown: But when I play the Game of Life, if you've [00:27:00] ever played that as a kid, I played the updated version.

[00:27:02] Andrew Brown: And the updated version was you can have, uh, a career path or a college path, and it says in the instructions that you're more likely to make more money with a college degree. Versus someone with, uh, you know, just a, a career. And it's funny, oh, there was no plumber, there was no electrician, there was no welder in that whole life set.

[00:27:25] Andrew Brown: Oh, to talk about. I was like, oh my God. I was like, well, the, the game of life is telling you that, and that kids are playing that and teachers are saying that, and your parents are saying that. It just goes on and on and on. So we need to re kind of reverse that and try that. And, and work on that. And that just is, is it goes back to messaging, social media, putting out more information about the trades, the administration getting up for, and there's a lot of things that we need to do.

[00:27:51] Andrew Brown: I don't think there is one, but we all need to identify that this is a much bigger problem than we think it is. And it will in the [00:28:00] next couple years if we don't at least, you know, it's like, it's like moving this big ship with a little rudder and you're slowly turning it and we need to turn it quicker.

[00:28:09] Andrew Brown: Yeah. Um, but it's just a combined effort across the board

[00:28:12] Eric Goranson: with everybody. I hate to get government involved, but is it gonna take the unions and the tradespeople out there to get involved with, with, you know, policy makers that say, Hey, as part of a school curriculum and as part of the guidance counselor program, they need to be giving all the options, just not some of them.

[00:28:35] Andrew Brown: Yeah. May look, maybe an option is trade school, um, is free. I don't know, I'm just throwing things out there. I dunno if that's even possible, but Absolutely. Just throwing things out there that maybe that, that's an option.

[00:28:46] Eric Goranson: Um, well it kind of is with the unions, right? I mean, you pay your union dues and you become a, a apprentice.

[00:28:51] Eric Goranson: Yeah. You can go through that whole electrical program in the unions without paying a bunch of money. You're buying some tools, but really that option's out there already in [00:29:00] a way.

[00:29:02] Andrew Brown: Yeah. I mean, look, that's, that's an option, but, uh, I am all for suggestions out there of how to, you know, close this, close this gap and to, and to make things better.

[00:29:13] Andrew Brown: Again, it just goes back to it's not just one thing that's just gonna make this over sudden overnight. Change. It's always so much that technology chat, g g p chat, g pt, and automation a robot, you know, you can't do that. It's just not gonna happen. You still need the, you know, the, the hands-on work for the people who do that work.

[00:29:39] Andrew Brown: You still need someone to, uh, get in there and weld. And, and do the electrical work. It's, it's just not there yet. So we need to find, you know, a better solution. You know, until, yeah,

[00:29:52] Eric Goranson: we're, we're decades and decades away from having a robot to get underneath the sink in [00:30:00] someone's house and go, what's wrong here?

[00:30:01] Eric Goranson: What did, uh, what did the last homeowner do to make this mistake? That's probably not in my lifetime. You know what I mean? It's just not gonna happen. And so, you know, you might see in 20 years a robot hanging drywall in somebody's. Large commercial project where it's gonna be drywall and over every electrical circuit and every outlet and every sprinkler said something.

[00:30:21] Eric Goranson: But you're not gonna see that happen in construction anytime soon. And, and if we've noticed. It's not the blue collar jobs we're losing to ai. It's the white collar jobs. Let's be honest.

[00:30:34] Andrew Brown: AI's coming for your white collar job. Yeah. It can't, it can't replace And that there was a, there was an interesting, uh, on LinkedIn or it was, it went viral of this like billboard of chat g g and can't replace people in trade.

[00:30:52] Andrew Brown: Like yeah, that's. You know, it's, it's, uh, it's a secure [00:31:00] profession and yeah, look, even during a downturn on a recession, there's still work that needs to be done around a house. People still need to fix stuff around their house, an electrician, a plumber, a welder. There's still stuff that needs to be done and it's, uh, to some

[00:31:16] Eric Goranson: degrees.

[00:31:16] Eric Goranson: Let's attack that myth for a minute, because you're right. I mean, you know, oh, well, construction is, is. Is, you know, oh, it's so cyclical. You're right. It is. But that's the beauty of it. I mean, I've been in this industry for 30 years in the, in the construction interior design, specializing in kitchen and bath work.

[00:31:35] Eric Goranson: And yes, there are some years that new construction just blown up, but it never lifts because that energy ends up going over to remodeling like we're seeing right now. Maybe new construction house, you know, starts her down. But right around that corner, people go, wow, I'm not moving better. Fix my house.

[00:31:54] Eric Goranson: There's always people and it's always there. There

[00:31:56] Andrew Brown: are always people saying, and I even in in, in my local [00:32:00] area with my friends who do, you know, I had to do a kitchen, I had to do a project. Everybody's talking behind the scenes and getting referrals and asking who's the right person? And if you are reliable, you show up, you have competitive pricing, you do good work, you're gonna do extremely well because people are gonna pass your name around.

[00:32:20] Andrew Brown: And there's tremendous opportunity

[00:32:23] Eric Goranson: there. Yeah, I know of uh, I know of a contractor right now that's really good in my area cause I used to work with him as his designer and him and I work together a lot. He's a year out right now booked out if you wanted, if you came in with a million dollars and said I gotta remodel.

[00:32:37] Eric Goranson: He is like end of the line. End of the line. Yeah. I was, I got something interesting here. This is kind of again, comes down to that skills where it was something I did yesterday and this will be coming up on a future episode of my television show. This blew my mind. I was in this, I, I drove past this place, found it, and it's a little company here in Portland that does this nationally Golden West billiards.[00:33:00]

[00:33:00] Eric Goranson: They make pool tables. I was shocked at this. I have not been in a building in my lifetime that have this many skilled people doing this level artisan work. They're handcrafting lions on the legs of the pool tables. And that kind of just insane stuff. They had a guy on this big industrial lathe doing 12 inch round legs and all he does is sit there for eight hours a day and work the lathe.

[00:33:32] Eric Goranson: And I asked the guy, I said, how long does he, as he learned, he's been doing that for 20 years. Yeah. And the only way Ray I got him is that the Argentinian guy that we had hired for 30 years before that, When he was getting ready to retire, I mirrored him up with three years so he could learn that. But we are such at a spot, and that's his biggest fear is we're at such a spot of not having that person one day.

[00:33:59] Eric Goranson: And [00:34:00] this is stuff that you can't really get with a C N C. This is stuff that you can't get because that hand craftsmanship doesn't exist through the computer. That for that level of stuff, you still need to have a crass person and we're gonna end up finding these people in other countries. We're gonna have to figure this out if we don't get our hands around him.

[00:34:19] Eric Goranson: Exactly.

[00:34:19] Andrew Brown: And it, and it's a great example. Another example is my dryer ConEd out and there's an individual that he's kind of known and he comes and he fixes and he's good. He just, he listens. I know what it's. You know, he is just, yeah, that guy, that guy, he's the guy and he's 64, 65 years old and we gotta talking and he's like, you know, I'm almost at retirement age and nobody wants my job, nobody wants to take over.

[00:34:44] Andrew Brown: I have no debt, I make good money. My schedule's, you know, I pick and choose the job, whatever he wants to be, whatever. And he does pretty well. And he just, it was baffling to him that nobody wants to take over. His job, and this is what happens. He leaves, no one [00:35:00] fills the gap. What do you do? Who do you go to?

[00:35:03] Andrew Brown: There's not that many people left, and that's the scary thing that this keeps compounding and keeps happening. The individuals that put in 20, 30 years who know the tricks of the trade and then they leave, this is why we need to have some sort of mentorship program. Mm-hmm. Or mentoring. Who can come in and learn all this experience, then it just doesn't go away that there's a plan in place.

[00:35:28] Andrew Brown: Yeah. For succession,

[00:35:31] Eric Goranson: no question. Andrew, let's talk about here before we run out of time, because this is a big one here. Let's talk about what happens with this trade gap when we, and what's happening now and how in this road we're on. Because I don't think people really get their arms around, okay, well yeah, we need people in the trades.

[00:35:49] Eric Goranson: That's cool. I get it. But they don't realize how today it's affecting their lives. Tomorrow it's gonna have even a bigger impact because your example there is just great. That guy that's [00:36:00] running his own business, he goes, you know, I can't find everybody. Replace me. Hey, I'm closing it down. I'm moving to the beach, I'm outta here.

[00:36:07] Eric Goranson: And now when you look in the on Google and go, Hey, I gotta call a appliance repair person. There's nobody there, or there's two people and it's eight weeks out and you go, I can't live without my dryer for eight weeks now I'm gonna take, instead of spending 75 or $200 to fix that $800 dryer you have, you go out and buy another one.

[00:36:27] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm. If we don't

[00:36:30] Andrew Brown: curb this skilled trades gap, just like you said, You could wait three or four weeks for a plumber. Can you wait three or four weeks? And you're, you're, you can't flush the toilet. Something's backed up. Your septic is, is on the fritz. Your dishwasher doesn't work. You know, you can, you can compound that.

[00:36:49] Andrew Brown: Your heaters out. Heaters out. I'm freezing. My kids are freezing. It's, it, you know, it's brutally hot out. People's acs go down right. It's hot and you can't find [00:37:00] that person. That's the worrisome that I'm concerned about, that you're gonna wait a lot longer and pay a lot more. It might be good for the people in the trades because they make more money, not good for the homeowner.

[00:37:13] Andrew Brown: So, well,

[00:37:14] Eric Goranson: let's, let's, let's take that over to affordable housing for a second. That is such a big push across the United States right now, right? We've gotta come up with affordable housing. I don't care where you're talking about, whether you're sitting out there in Kansas or if you're in California. It's a discussion, right?

[00:37:31] Eric Goranson: And it is wonderful for the trades that everybody's making good money out there and it's getting harder to, harder to find those people. So those people make more money because you're gonna, Hey, I gotta pay 'em this. We're gonna have less affordable housing down the road when it comes to new construction homes because that labor rate just keeps going up and up and up just because of, you know, demand.

[00:37:55] Eric Goranson: You

[00:37:55] Andrew Brown: keep passing down the cost, right? Eventually it's the homeowner that [00:38:00] just has to pay more for the same, same item that could be said for a lot of things and inflation and things like that, but this is what's going to happen. And that we need to curb this and be proactive, not reactive here. The, the, the, I wanna focus on, you know, being proactive, reactive is like, it's, it's already happened and it's, you know, we're just reactive here, being proactive.

[00:38:24] Andrew Brown: This is exactly why we need to keep, I, I'll say it again, goes back to the messaging, it goes back to trying to get the younger generation involved and to change that old adage that it's not, Uh, a dirty, you know, low end job that people assume with and that it's a, it can be a high paying job if you put the time and effort in and learn the skills and learn the trade.

[00:38:50] Andrew Brown: We just, again, need to work together.

[00:38:53] Eric Goranson: Exactly. And that's, that's really what it's gonna take. And, and, uh, you know, it's, it's, uh, we've got an interesting [00:39:00] decade ahead of us with so many people that are the brain trust of construction. And, you know, remodeling right out there that are, that are getting ready to, uh, head to the beach and call it a retirement.

[00:39:12] Eric Goranson: And we've gotta be able to get people in to fill those shoes. Exactly. So any other tips, man, that we can do to get people going in this? Uh, I always love getting your wisdom on this stuff because you're somebody out in the trenches that are just fighting out every day out there trying to spread the word, showing up every day.

[00:39:29] Andrew Brown: You can't just not show up. And, and this is why I keep showing up on videos because I feel like if I'm not showing up, I'm doing an injustice, I'm not doing my job because the hard part is staying consistent. You keep knocking, you keep yelling, you keep screaming. You have a mic and there's, you don't get the, you don't feel like you're making impact.

[00:39:50] Andrew Brown: I feel like I am, and it's just, it's a slow burn and it's not something that happens in a couple months. It could take a couple years. You just need to keep showing up, stay [00:40:00] consistent with the messaging, and to get more people inspired. I feel I've inspired a good amount of people through my videos. That they want to start putting out messages about the trades, right?

[00:40:12] Andrew Brown: That's where you get other people interested. Like Roger Wakefield, you're watching him. I'm inspired by him or Jamie McMillan, you know, and with the Iron Workers women. It's just, that's what you need to keep doing, and those individuals need to keep showing up because if they don't, you know, that's yesterday's news and that's what we need to keep being consistent.

[00:40:33] Eric Goranson: So very true. So very true. Hey, I wanna ask you, just because this is not why I had you on here, we're talking the trades today. Let's talk about your company for a second, cuz outside of your carrying the flag for the trades, You're also CEO too.

[00:40:47] Andrew Brown: I am. And I wanna give, I wanna provide some context to really why I do this.

[00:40:51] Andrew Brown: Just a quick story. Yeah, let's do it. Because absolutely. Some people ask me, well I, you know, I don't really understand your background. So just to give you some context, [00:41:00] on September 11th, 2001, when I was 23 years old, I was living in New York City at the time, and the planes had just hit the buildings and I got this crazy idea to go down there and help.

[00:41:11] Andrew Brown: And I convinced a friend in Rhode Island at the time to come in and he came in a few days after it happened. He comes in with this big, he comes downstairs and he's got this big blue truck with an American flag on back, and he's dressed up as a tradesperson. He's got a hard hat on and he's got an extra hard hat and and overalls for me.

[00:41:33] Andrew Brown: And all of a sudden I find myself racing down the West Side Highway from checkpoint to checkpoint. And we make it down to ground zero. I don't know how we gotta the checkpoints. I can't even, I can't even,

[00:41:44] Eric Goranson: somehow we made through. You look like you're supposed to be there, right?

[00:41:47] Andrew Brown: Yeah, you're supposed to be, there're supposed to be there.

[00:41:48] Andrew Brown: Yeah. You parked the car and now I'm standing on the trade center where it once stood, and this is only a handful of days and I was helping tradespeople and emergency workers find survivors [00:42:00] the entire day. So I was watching the trades. People do anything necessary to find survivors. Can you talk about life-changing events?

[00:42:08] Andrew Brown: Not only personally, but professionally, I was an IT guy. And Yeah. A, after that situation, I literally, like, I quit my job. I had a decent job in it. Like I quit my job like a couple weeks after. I just put my two weeks notice in, and I spent months. Yep. In months and months trying to figure out how do I get back to the tradespeople that I saw.

[00:42:30] Andrew Brown: On nine 11. Yeah. So that's where I co-founded an online to an equipment business named Tool Fetch with my brother about 20 years ago. Still going strong today, still love the business. And we sell tools to the skilled trades. So professionals such as welders and carpenters, plumbers, and other blue collar skilled trades.

[00:42:48] Andrew Brown: And I always say these are the men and women who are building our bridges, our tunnels, our roads, our infrastructure. Yeah. And we reach them by offering one of the largest. Two equipment catalogs on the internet [00:43:00] with over a million different products from 650 different vendors. So products like lifts, cement mixers, drain cleaners, harnesses, stuff like that.

[00:43:07] Andrew Brown: That is my way to get back to the skilled trades, to what I saw 20 plus years ago. So every time that I'm talking to someone in the trades, it just, I keep going back to, I'm helping them. I'm the middle man between the manufacturer. And the people who are, I call the heroes, unsung heroes, who are doing the work.

[00:43:27] Andrew Brown: That's what I'm doing, man. I'm living nice, brother. The dream that I'm supposed to be, the path I'm supposed to be doing,

[00:43:35] Eric Goranson: man, what a powerful story of kind of finding yourself in your early twenties, right? Yeah. Yeah. Dev, divine invention. That that is powerful, man. I love it. I love it. It's such a great success story too, of what you've been doing and, and, uh, We just need to get more of these people in there and everybody that's tuning in right now.

[00:43:55] Eric Goranson: Things you can do. You know, between what Andrew's saying and what [00:44:00] I'm saying here, just be involved in your community, right? Get a, get your head in what's going on in the schools. If you can buy a coffee to a, to a counselor at a high school that's telling kids where to go, make the argument and just one person can put.

[00:44:18] Eric Goranson: Dozens of people in the trades every single year, and I think it's gonna be that kind of grassroots effort that's gonna change this ship. Exactly. Thanks for coming on today, brother. If people wanna track you down, what's the best way to do that?

[00:44:31] Andrew Brown: So I am very active on LinkedIn. It's under my name Andrew Brown.

[00:44:35] Andrew Brown: You can reach out to me if you wanna talk about tools. I'm always, I always like to talk shop, or if you just wanna talk about the skilled trades, reach out to me on YouTube. It's under Tool Fetch and tool fetch.com is our. Website.

[00:44:50] Eric Goranson: Perfect. Brother, thanks for coming on today. This is such an important topic and, uh, happy I had the expert on.

[00:44:56] Eric Goranson: Thanks Eric. Appreciate it. I'm Eric t and you've been [00:45:00] listening to Around the House

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