1
00:00:00,128 --> 00:00:03,756
So what's essential in this business and what hasn't changed since day
2
00:00:03,805 --> 00:00:07,594
one for me is like, we need to be able to pivot. We need to
3
00:00:07,594 --> 00:00:11,399
be agile and nimble, and we are. Like, we keep evolving
4
00:00:11,415 --> 00:00:15,124
the way that we do our work from the process, the types of
5
00:00:15,124 --> 00:00:18,832
work that we do, the services we offer, the type of experts
6
00:00:18,881 --> 00:00:22,509
that we need. Because if we sit still, we're dead, right?
7
00:00:22,654 --> 00:00:25,881
Like, that's the truth. But if we evolve with the
8
00:00:25,881 --> 00:00:29,524
times and try to stay ahead of what's coming next, then we're going to be
9
00:00:29,636 --> 00:00:31,543
able to deliver that service to the client that they're looking
10
00:00:31,639 --> 00:00:36,013
for.
11
00:00:37,183 --> 00:00:40,435
Welcome back to Podcast Junkies. Today I'm joined by Jodi Katz. She's the founder of
12
00:00:40,467 --> 00:00:44,200
Base Beauty and the host of Where Brains Meet Beauty. It's a long-running niche
13
00:00:44,248 --> 00:00:47,677
podcast built around conversations, candid conversations, career
14
00:00:47,677 --> 00:00:51,442
journeys, and the people shaping the beauty industry. And Jodi, you've
15
00:00:51,442 --> 00:00:54,951
created a show with a really clear point of view and a strong sense of
16
00:00:54,951 --> 00:00:58,653
community. So I'm really, really excited to dig into how it started, how you
17
00:00:58,653 --> 00:01:01,863
positioned it and what it's taken to sustain it over the long haul. So welcome.
18
00:01:02,024 --> 00:01:04,704
Thank you so much. This is so fun to be here. So you've built a
19
00:01:04,816 --> 00:01:08,540
really distinctive show with Where Brains Meet Beauty, and it feels like
20
00:01:08,540 --> 00:01:12,344
something that's rooted in maybe your career journeys, the people you've spoken
21
00:01:12,376 --> 00:01:16,196
to, honest conversations. And I get the sense you're building up this sense of
22
00:01:16,372 --> 00:01:19,807
community. So I'd love to start at the beginning. What was happening in your
23
00:01:19,903 --> 00:01:23,145
world when the idea for this podcast first came to you? What made it feel
24
00:01:23,145 --> 00:01:26,982
like it was a conversation worth creating? I love answering a question
25
00:01:26,982 --> 00:01:30,739
like this because it was not my idea. The show was actually
26
00:01:30,755 --> 00:01:34,383
the idea of my business coach who I had just started working with like
27
00:01:34,624 --> 00:01:38,300
2 months beforehand. And this was about 10 years ago at
28
00:01:38,300 --> 00:01:41,735
this point. And he was teaching me like the
29
00:01:41,735 --> 00:01:45,315
basics of like leading a business. And I've had my business now for
30
00:01:45,315 --> 00:01:48,654
19 years. So this was not day 1, right? I was already had a
31
00:01:48,654 --> 00:01:51,657
business and I just kind of felt stuck in it. So I hired a coach
32
00:01:52,331 --> 00:01:55,881
and he would try to be teaching me and telling me to like go to
33
00:01:55,962 --> 00:01:59,736
all these networking events. And I'm like, Alan, I don't want to go to a
34
00:01:59,736 --> 00:02:02,483
Fashion Week party. Please don't make me stand at the bar and try to fight
35
00:02:02,483 --> 00:02:06,322
for conversation. Like, I just want to go home after the workday, put my
36
00:02:06,402 --> 00:02:09,904
PJs on and watch The Real Housewives. And I
37
00:02:10,016 --> 00:02:13,710
told him I'm just not that great in groups. Like, I
38
00:02:13,775 --> 00:02:16,987
don't know how to navigate, like, getting like part of the
39
00:02:16,987 --> 00:02:20,374
conversation when there's a lot of voices. But I told him I was really good
40
00:02:20,374 --> 00:02:24,124
one-on-one. So he took that note back
41
00:02:24,140 --> 00:02:26,865
with him and he woke up the next morning and he called me and he
42
00:02:26,865 --> 00:02:30,503
said, Jodi, you should start a podcast. And I would, I said, Alan, why would
43
00:02:30,535 --> 00:02:34,141
I do that? He said, because you'll get to talk to people one-on-one. Yeah. And
44
00:02:34,141 --> 00:02:37,795
I believed him. So my team and I Googled how to make a podcast
45
00:02:38,388 --> 00:02:42,010
and that was, you know, 9 years ago and 300+ episodes
46
00:02:42,010 --> 00:02:45,136
later, I've gotten the chance to use the show
47
00:02:45,921 --> 00:02:49,608
selfishly as free business coaching and
48
00:02:49,769 --> 00:02:53,555
free therapy because we talk about real-world
49
00:02:53,555 --> 00:02:56,908
stuff. Like, we are not robots in this business, right? We're all human
50
00:02:56,908 --> 00:03:00,438
beings. We might have kids and dogs and cats and, you know, other things to
51
00:03:00,438 --> 00:03:04,192
do and be focused on outside of work. And I really
52
00:03:04,545 --> 00:03:08,363
need other human beings helping me navigate my life. So
53
00:03:08,941 --> 00:03:12,486
I have it for selfish reasons, but I do get great feedback from our listeners
54
00:03:12,486 --> 00:03:16,243
that these lessons and wisdom or applicable to their world as well. I love
55
00:03:16,243 --> 00:03:19,713
that story and it's something that I harp on. Obviously we, you know, started
56
00:03:20,099 --> 00:03:23,649
roughly around the same time. This show's been going on 11 years. I call
57
00:03:23,649 --> 00:03:27,360
podcast your virtual stage, which I love because it's like you decide
58
00:03:27,424 --> 00:03:30,557
yourself. You don't have to wait for opportunities to be on other people's stages. You
59
00:03:30,557 --> 00:03:33,144
can decide how you wanna build those relationships. And for me it was in the
60
00:03:33,144 --> 00:03:36,871
podcasting space 'cause I came in with zero visibility, but I quickly
61
00:03:36,903 --> 00:03:40,518
realized in those early days there was only Skype and call recorder,
62
00:03:40,534 --> 00:03:43,369
so there was no, I could get the video, but I couldn't record it. But
63
00:03:43,369 --> 00:03:46,307
I, I knew from day one that I wanted a video. I said, if I'm
64
00:03:46,307 --> 00:03:49,042
gonna spend an hour with this person, I want them to see my face. I
65
00:03:49,042 --> 00:03:52,049
want them, I wanna build this relationship. And then I'd go to like Podcast Movement
66
00:03:52,049 --> 00:03:54,798
and they'd be like, hey Harry, like thanks for that chat. It was really nice.
67
00:03:54,863 --> 00:03:58,598
And I'm sure it's some, an experience you've had as well. Well, we've had so
68
00:03:58,550 --> 00:04:02,093
many formats through the years as the technology has advanced like you. So in the
69
00:04:02,288 --> 00:04:06,074
early days it was, I don't know, a Zoom-like thing. I don't remember what
70
00:04:06,106 --> 00:04:09,467
it was called. And then we made the move to doing
71
00:04:10,045 --> 00:04:13,767
live recordings, like face-to-face in a room together, which I love
72
00:04:13,767 --> 00:04:17,041
so much. So we would rent some spaces and
73
00:04:17,041 --> 00:04:20,844
studios in New York, and when that became like cost prohibitive, 'cause it, it
74
00:04:20,892 --> 00:04:24,711
really adds up, we realized that in our WeWork there was a
75
00:04:24,743 --> 00:04:27,711
room that we could use as a, a recording studio. So we used that for
76
00:04:27,711 --> 00:04:31,322
a while. Then we, when we built out the office that we're in currently, we
77
00:04:31,322 --> 00:04:34,435
built out a studio within the office so we have a place to do it.
78
00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:38,265
There. And of course, during COVID we had to, you know, move to online.
79
00:04:38,698 --> 00:04:41,951
But the face-to-face experience has been so
80
00:04:41,983 --> 00:04:45,652
meaningful for me that we actually made the decision last year to move all of
81
00:04:45,652 --> 00:04:49,402
our recordings to not just live with the guests, but actually
82
00:04:49,498 --> 00:04:53,120
in front of an audience. So we record all of our episodes at what we
83
00:04:53,184 --> 00:04:56,934
call listening parties, and we invite industry friends
84
00:04:57,030 --> 00:04:59,850
to sit in the audience and watch the show get made. That sounds like a
85
00:04:59,850 --> 00:05:03,152
lot of fun. And a lot of different pivots in terms of the
86
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,631
formatting. And I know that you have our opening question that says, "What'd you want
87
00:05:06,631 --> 00:05:10,414
to be when you grew up?" So, that's such a great entry point. What made
88
00:05:10,430 --> 00:05:13,956
that feel like something that would be like, like an icebreaker or the right way
89
00:05:14,020 --> 00:05:17,755
into a conversation? Thanks for noticing that. It's actually become quite
90
00:05:17,868 --> 00:05:21,282
fun to track these. We started this during COVID because we had been in
91
00:05:21,330 --> 00:05:24,520
person with our guests for many years at that point. Then we had to be
92
00:05:24,536 --> 00:05:28,239
virtual. And given that this is a career journey show, it just
93
00:05:28,239 --> 00:05:31,910
became obvious that like we all think about like, you know, our careers very,
94
00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:35,165
very early in our our lives, right? We have these dreams. I want to be
95
00:05:35,165 --> 00:05:37,728
an astronaut. I want to be a dancer. I want to be a soccer player.
96
00:05:38,417 --> 00:05:41,945
And I just asked it on a whim without any, like, actually planning or
97
00:05:42,236 --> 00:05:45,278
deep thought about it the first time. And like, oh my God, like, there's something
98
00:05:45,375 --> 00:05:49,195
here. So we've been doing this probably for, at this point, half the
99
00:05:49,195 --> 00:05:52,763
life of the show. And it's fascinating
100
00:05:52,795 --> 00:05:56,266
because a lot of times our guests will say, you know, they were daydreaming when
101
00:05:56,266 --> 00:05:59,642
they were 10 years old. And it's, you know, not that far off from what
102
00:05:59,642 --> 00:06:02,113
they're doing now. They might not be, like, a professional athlete, but the reasons why
103
00:06:02,113 --> 00:06:05,894
they wanted to be a professional athlete is actually completely tied
104
00:06:05,894 --> 00:06:09,629
to this sort of like performance that they deliver in
105
00:06:09,661 --> 00:06:13,476
their work every day. We've had a lot of people who wanted to be dancers,
106
00:06:13,813 --> 00:06:17,612
singers, and they actually do perform. You know, they're on QVC
107
00:06:17,756 --> 00:06:21,491
or they're on TikTok selling their products, right? It's really kind of fascinating.
108
00:06:21,587 --> 00:06:24,842
So now that we have AI at our fingertips, the team is gonna do
109
00:06:25,611 --> 00:06:29,009
a deep dive through all those transcripts with AI and ask it to
110
00:06:29,058 --> 00:06:32,424
pull out like all of the responses so that we can start to have data
111
00:06:32,488 --> 00:06:36,047
on like 50% of beauty industry leaders wanted to be
112
00:06:36,095 --> 00:06:38,195
astronauts when they grew up and things like that and have a lot of fun
113
00:06:38,195 --> 00:06:41,754
with the data. So when you first started the show, how has it
114
00:06:42,027 --> 00:06:45,699
changed? Like, who specifically did you want to pitch
115
00:06:45,747 --> 00:06:49,595
it to? Like, did you have an ideal listener in mind when you started? We
116
00:06:50,043 --> 00:06:53,667
always wanted to have a show that was a platform for
117
00:06:53,667 --> 00:06:56,681
people that were not just the household names,
118
00:06:57,499 --> 00:07:00,257
right? So we're happy to have the household names on our show, right? There are
119
00:07:00,257 --> 00:07:03,992
some notable people who have started and lead beauty brands or
120
00:07:03,992 --> 00:07:07,488
some celebrities, right, who have their own brands and happy to have those
121
00:07:07,488 --> 00:07:11,226
people on our show. But it was really important to us
122
00:07:11,226 --> 00:07:14,563
that we also have those people who are behind the scenes because
123
00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:18,573
I always felt like an outsider in the beauty industry. I didn't work at
124
00:07:18,926 --> 00:07:22,279
Estée Lauder or Coty and any of these big companies. I was sort of like
125
00:07:22,359 --> 00:07:25,808
a different path. So I didn't want this to be just another
126
00:07:25,808 --> 00:07:29,610
vehicle for notable people. I wanted to make sure that we were elevating the
127
00:07:29,674 --> 00:07:33,306
voices of the people who are working hard every day. And we stayed true to
128
00:07:33,306 --> 00:07:36,024
that through the years, which I'm really proud of. And, you know, those are our
129
00:07:36,024 --> 00:07:39,627
clients on the agency side. We have our own agency called Base Beauty,
130
00:07:39,740 --> 00:07:42,645
and we've had that— I've had that business for 19 years. So who are our
131
00:07:42,645 --> 00:07:45,614
clients? It's not the celebrity. The celebrity is not in the thick of the work
132
00:07:45,614 --> 00:07:49,230
with us, right? It's the people behind the scenes who are super smart and very
133
00:07:49,327 --> 00:07:52,290
passionate. And I want to make sure their voices were heard. So I definitely want
134
00:07:52,290 --> 00:07:55,659
to give you the opportunity to plug the agency as well. So without going too
135
00:07:55,691 --> 00:07:59,208
deep into the weeds here, but talk a little bit about How it started and
136
00:07:59,224 --> 00:08:02,272
who do you serve? Great question. I love this. So I'll tell you what we
137
00:08:02,272 --> 00:08:05,337
do first and then I'll go back in time. We are a creative agency and
138
00:08:05,337 --> 00:08:08,802
we focus in 4 categories. That's beauty, wellness,
139
00:08:08,995 --> 00:08:12,781
personal care, and aesthetics. So those are the only places we play. We're
140
00:08:12,781 --> 00:08:16,519
not working on fast food or automotive clients, but within those
141
00:08:16,535 --> 00:08:20,241
categories, we're experts in creative, social media,
142
00:08:20,402 --> 00:08:24,108
influencer, and PR. And we choose those areas of focus because
143
00:08:24,156 --> 00:08:28,006
that's where we're able to build trust and relevance with the consumer. And
144
00:08:28,006 --> 00:08:31,572
without trust and relevance, you have nothing, right? You just have, you know, some goop
145
00:08:31,572 --> 00:08:35,090
in a jar. So that's what we focus on every day. And I created the
146
00:08:35,090 --> 00:08:38,559
agency 19 years ago because I saw a white space. I was
147
00:08:38,623 --> 00:08:42,462
working as the creative director of a French beauty company. I was in
148
00:08:42,462 --> 00:08:46,140
New York and I needed to give overflow work to agency
149
00:08:46,172 --> 00:08:49,834
partners who can help us with our workflow. And I couldn't find any
150
00:08:49,882 --> 00:08:53,528
specialists in beauty and fragrance and skincare. I only
151
00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:57,288
found a whole bunch of like sort of fashion boutique agencies. So it
152
00:08:57,305 --> 00:09:00,620
got me thinking, well, if there's a white space, why don't I fill it?
153
00:09:01,156 --> 00:09:04,975
So from that first moment after I left that full-time role, we at
154
00:09:04,975 --> 00:09:08,751
Base Beauty have been focusing on those categories: aesthetics, beauty, personal care,
155
00:09:08,783 --> 00:09:12,219
and wellness, and being as robust in our offering as
156
00:09:12,251 --> 00:09:15,942
possible so that the benefit to the client is a really strong partner
157
00:09:15,942 --> 00:09:18,497
across all those different functions. You said 19 years?
158
00:09:19,413 --> 00:09:23,254
19 years. Yeah. Well, congrats on approaching the 20-year mark. I know as
159
00:09:23,254 --> 00:09:26,735
an entrepreneur myself, it's, uh, A series of ups and downs for sure.
160
00:09:28,582 --> 00:09:32,150
Well, interesting you've mentioned that cuz I can't do this without the
161
00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:35,476
business coaching that I've had now for 10 years and weekly therapy.
162
00:09:36,215 --> 00:09:39,863
And I'm also not afraid to be vulnerable. Yeah. So we'll go there together now,
163
00:09:40,072 --> 00:09:43,896
Harry. It's taken me 19 years to get
164
00:09:43,896 --> 00:09:47,367
to the point where I had this idea in my head this weekend. Why am
165
00:09:47,415 --> 00:09:51,014
I expecting it to be easy? Yeah. Like, So it took me
166
00:09:51,014 --> 00:09:54,675
19 years to realize like my perfectionist tendency
167
00:09:54,948 --> 00:09:58,063
is sort of trying to paint a picture of a story of what it's like
168
00:09:58,079 --> 00:10:01,419
to run a business. And it's false. It doesn't make any sense.
169
00:10:01,788 --> 00:10:05,401
So as of today, you're meeting me that first day where I am going to
170
00:10:05,401 --> 00:10:09,110
move through the world knowing that there's bumps in the road, knowing that that's
171
00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:12,353
to be expected, 'cause that's where we learn and we grow. And
172
00:10:12,594 --> 00:10:16,222
hopefully realizing this and accepting it will
173
00:10:16,238 --> 00:10:20,007
make those hard things a little less hard for me. I love that. And it's
174
00:10:20,119 --> 00:10:22,637
so true. And, and unless you've been in the trenches and doing it, it's hard
175
00:10:22,637 --> 00:10:26,341
to relate. And it's, you know, that first day when you don't get that check
176
00:10:26,357 --> 00:10:29,805
deposited in your account, you know, as a paycheck and you're like, oh, like I
177
00:10:29,853 --> 00:10:33,542
gotta figure this out myself. And then the journey that goes on from there. But
178
00:10:33,542 --> 00:10:37,294
I appreciate you being vulnerable. What do you think shifted for you to
179
00:10:37,294 --> 00:10:41,143
have that realization? I wish I knew because maybe I would've
180
00:10:41,143 --> 00:10:44,623
had more serenity. The past 19 years if I was able to
181
00:10:44,672 --> 00:10:48,297
realize this. You know, I'm definitely a recovering perfectionist and I
182
00:10:48,297 --> 00:10:51,185
thought a lot of those tendencies sort of washed away.
183
00:10:51,890 --> 00:10:55,628
And I realize this is really deeply rooted in this idea
184
00:10:55,660 --> 00:10:59,109
that like there is a perfect out there, that we shouldn't be
185
00:10:59,125 --> 00:11:02,687
uncomfortable. And that's just not real life. And it's
186
00:11:02,735 --> 00:11:06,553
certainly not business, right? Even if I wasn't running the business, if I was
187
00:11:06,665 --> 00:11:10,482
an employee in a business, not every day is easy. Right? So I wish
188
00:11:10,658 --> 00:11:14,505
I knew why I couldn't peel that onion sooner, but I'm
189
00:11:14,505 --> 00:11:18,288
glad that I did today. And I look forward
190
00:11:18,288 --> 00:11:22,103
to, you know, moving through this entrepreneurial life and growing in
191
00:11:22,119 --> 00:11:25,789
the agency with that acceptance so that I can have more
192
00:11:25,837 --> 00:11:29,524
serenity and also more joy and fun in the work. Yeah, that's so important,
193
00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:33,098
especially now with everything that's happening in the world, that if we don't have the
194
00:11:33,098 --> 00:11:36,576
opportunity to enjoy what we're doing, then we should be questioning why we're doing it
195
00:11:36,576 --> 00:11:40,237
in the first place. Right. Howie, that's actually something I work with my
196
00:11:40,237 --> 00:11:43,995
coach on a lot. When I feel stuck or really frustrated,
197
00:11:44,348 --> 00:11:47,624
he points me back to my joy. Like, where is my joy in this?
198
00:11:47,865 --> 00:11:51,141
And it's a common thread through the past 10 years
199
00:11:51,254 --> 00:11:54,947
because I'm not doing this because someone forced me
200
00:11:54,947 --> 00:11:58,561
to, right? I chose this path. I really believe
201
00:11:58,561 --> 00:12:01,917
that Base Beauty is excellent at what we do and that more and more clients
202
00:12:01,917 --> 00:12:05,368
should come and find us and use us as a resource. And I believe this
203
00:12:05,368 --> 00:12:08,653
business can grow in the way that I imagine. But I
204
00:12:09,134 --> 00:12:12,869
don't want to feel like it's torture. I want to have joy in my
205
00:12:12,901 --> 00:12:16,732
work. I want to show my team how fun this can be, this
206
00:12:16,828 --> 00:12:19,906
adventure. I want to show my kids and, you know, be a role model for
207
00:12:19,906 --> 00:12:23,753
my kids that, like, hard work pays off. So I do
208
00:12:23,753 --> 00:12:26,878
need that reminder, though, to find my joy. And we're always able to find it.
209
00:12:26,926 --> 00:12:30,405
We're always able to pinpoint, like, one thing, even in a really hard situation where
210
00:12:30,453 --> 00:12:33,565
I can tap into that joy. Well, I appreciate you reminding me because,
211
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:38,382
and hopefully I don't have to wait another 8 years to
212
00:12:38,398 --> 00:12:42,220
find my serenity. I think conversations like this are sometimes serendipitous
213
00:12:42,733 --> 00:12:45,238
and, you know, having them in the right time. So, you know, the more I
214
00:12:45,238 --> 00:12:48,032
was looking into like your backstory, I was like, I'm excited to like have this
215
00:12:48,032 --> 00:12:51,789
conversation. And it's one of the reasons why I love the platform so much
216
00:12:51,966 --> 00:12:55,723
and having this stage. So I'm curious in your role as
217
00:12:55,820 --> 00:12:59,481
a host, what have you noticed? Like how have you developed? How have you grown
218
00:12:59,593 --> 00:13:03,296
from those like early day one recordings to how you feel comfortable behind the mic
219
00:13:03,296 --> 00:13:07,078
now? Well, thankfully now I have a producer
220
00:13:07,222 --> 00:13:10,875
who is really focused on making it
221
00:13:11,132 --> 00:13:14,481
easy for me to do what I do. So we have
222
00:13:14,577 --> 00:13:18,279
organized our show into quarterly themes and we build quarterly
223
00:13:18,343 --> 00:13:21,852
themes around either things that interest us or something that's happening in the industry.
224
00:13:22,301 --> 00:13:25,922
So, uh, for example, our theme for Q1 this year was called Power
225
00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:29,663
Duos. And we brought guests that actually like
226
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,455
work together as a duo. So we have had some husband and wife
227
00:13:33,552 --> 00:13:37,228
teams, sisters, people from different generations, but they work
228
00:13:37,228 --> 00:13:40,706
very closely together. And, or like unlikely
229
00:13:40,738 --> 00:13:44,425
pairings, you know, someone who's like super finance-minded versus, and someone who's
230
00:13:44,425 --> 00:13:47,906
super creative-minded and how they work together. So it was a theme that was
231
00:13:47,906 --> 00:13:50,728
interesting to us cuz when we get, would get pitched guests, we're like, oh, isn't
232
00:13:50,744 --> 00:13:53,678
that interesting? They're sisters, they're husband and wife, you know, they're brothers.
233
00:13:54,398 --> 00:13:58,181
So that power duo's theme really sets the tone for like then
234
00:13:58,310 --> 00:14:01,419
what— her name is Natasha— what Natasha and I do together, which is, you know,
235
00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:04,866
reach out to our network for guests. So we get pitched by publicists, but we
236
00:14:04,946 --> 00:14:07,286
also know a lot of people. So we go out to our friends in the
237
00:14:07,286 --> 00:14:10,941
industry and ask if they have recommendations. Then what we do to
238
00:14:10,973 --> 00:14:14,805
build the listening party is we have 6 slots for recording all in
239
00:14:14,805 --> 00:14:18,443
one day. So we're recording 6 episodes in one day, back to
240
00:14:18,507 --> 00:14:22,307
back in front of a live audience. So this is why
241
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:26,091
I need Natasha, because if I had to do all of those
242
00:14:26,123 --> 00:14:29,266
intake calls myself, prep all of those questions myself,
243
00:14:29,795 --> 00:14:33,419
and then like be on a stage right in front of an audience for
244
00:14:33,419 --> 00:14:36,738
6 straight hours, I don't think it would have— it would be
245
00:14:36,883 --> 00:14:40,154
sustainable for me. Right. I really need that partner in the work. Where are you
246
00:14:40,154 --> 00:14:43,986
recording? We record in our office. So Base Beauty has an office in Midtown New
247
00:14:43,986 --> 00:14:47,337
York, and we set up a really pretty
248
00:14:47,450 --> 00:14:51,232
space for— it's almost like a horseshoe format.
249
00:14:51,376 --> 00:14:55,221
We are at the table, I'm at the table with my guests, and then in
250
00:14:55,221 --> 00:14:59,050
a horseshoe format, the listeners are sitting there. And then we have food and
251
00:14:59,050 --> 00:15:02,848
drinks in another room. So in between episode recordings,
252
00:15:02,896 --> 00:15:05,700
people are taking pictures with our guests and, you know, meeting people, but then they're
253
00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:08,728
also able to get snacks. We always want to feed people. And it's an open
254
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,573
house format. So people are coming and going, you know, based on their schedule,
255
00:15:12,605 --> 00:15:15,249
they pop in for an episode or two, then they go, you know, finish their
256
00:15:15,249 --> 00:15:18,954
work for the day. I love that format. And is there, there's an audience there
257
00:15:19,019 --> 00:15:22,374
too, so you invite people into, into the office, right? So it's a way for
258
00:15:22,374 --> 00:15:26,003
us to celebrate our network, right? We have a lot of friends in the
259
00:15:26,003 --> 00:15:29,776
industry, clients, former clients, so we invite them to
260
00:15:29,776 --> 00:15:33,405
sit in the room and they become part of the show too, right? There's
261
00:15:33,790 --> 00:15:36,985
a lot of interactivity between the guests at the table recording with me and the
262
00:15:36,985 --> 00:15:40,470
people in the audience. People are laughing and clapping or
263
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:44,307
shouting things out. And that's a dynamic that I need too. You know,
264
00:15:44,452 --> 00:15:47,775
after 300 episodes, I don't wanna hear myself anymore,
265
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,340
right? I really want to hear the voices of the people that I'm interviewing
266
00:15:51,597 --> 00:15:55,386
and our friends and industry, other industry leaders who
267
00:15:55,386 --> 00:15:58,726
can contribute. Have you noticed in yourself your ability
268
00:15:58,999 --> 00:16:02,467
to hold, maintain, continue conversations has improved?
269
00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:05,839
Because for myself personally, I find that now I can be a better listener,
270
00:16:06,449 --> 00:16:10,270
ask more open-ended questions, pull threads. And I'm curious if you've noticed like that skill
271
00:16:10,303 --> 00:16:14,108
for you. I think it's my superpower. I, I'm
272
00:16:14,156 --> 00:16:17,861
a really excellent listener, which is where the energy is
273
00:16:17,861 --> 00:16:21,517
required, especially for the back-to-back recording. I'm
274
00:16:21,630 --> 00:16:24,565
really listening so hard because I'm genuinely curious.
275
00:16:25,399 --> 00:16:28,991
And I'm genuinely curious because I need your help,
276
00:16:29,232 --> 00:16:31,589
right? If you're in the chair as a guest, I need your help. You might
277
00:16:31,589 --> 00:16:34,043
not know it. You don't know. You might not know you're my therapist for the
278
00:16:34,059 --> 00:16:37,203
day, but all of my questions, all my
279
00:16:37,267 --> 00:16:40,924
curiosity is coming from a really authentic place, which is I'm alone in
280
00:16:40,956 --> 00:16:44,291
running this business, you know, as the sole CEO. I've been doing this a long
281
00:16:44,403 --> 00:16:47,930
time. This industry is wackadoo sometimes. There's pressures, you know,
282
00:16:48,074 --> 00:16:51,665
outside of anything that we can control that we have to navigate. Every
283
00:16:51,697 --> 00:16:55,336
minute of the day, something changes in algorithms or whatnot of what
284
00:16:55,448 --> 00:16:58,798
best practices are. So I come to it with that genuine
285
00:16:58,895 --> 00:17:02,694
curiosity, supported by the fact that Natasha has done a lot of prep for me.
286
00:17:03,383 --> 00:17:06,685
And we talk to each other through the computer screen that I have to my
287
00:17:06,685 --> 00:17:10,533
side when I'm interviewing, right? So if something is said by one of the
288
00:17:10,533 --> 00:17:13,194
guests and it comes up and it's relevant, so, you know, something that's important to
289
00:17:13,194 --> 00:17:16,931
me, she'll leave me a note or highlight something. Which is actually, you know, for
290
00:17:16,931 --> 00:17:19,180
me, it's super fun. I'm like, I have a friend on the other side of
291
00:17:19,180 --> 00:17:22,906
the wall who's helping me here, and it makes me smile. But yeah, my
292
00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:26,647
superpower is, I think, listening so closely that it makes the
293
00:17:26,647 --> 00:17:30,309
conversation feel really complete. And,
294
00:17:30,341 --> 00:17:33,714
Hari, that comes also from the fact that I've been in so many rooms where
295
00:17:33,714 --> 00:17:36,925
these panel discussions and moderators doing their job,
296
00:17:37,423 --> 00:17:41,197
and the guest will say something, and like, I'm like, the obvious
297
00:17:41,197 --> 00:17:44,950
follow-up question is to ask ABC, and they just move
298
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:48,058
on to their, to their next question. The card's like, oh my God, this is
299
00:17:48,090 --> 00:17:51,279
the secret to the universe, and you could have asked that question and we could
300
00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:54,580
have gotten that answer. So I've been frustrated and
301
00:17:54,580 --> 00:17:58,250
disappointed so many times that like, I wanna be that for my
302
00:17:58,250 --> 00:18:01,728
listeners. I wanna make sure that they close the loop, right? That the questions that
303
00:18:01,728 --> 00:18:05,365
are top of mind that are being inspired, that they get answers.
304
00:18:05,638 --> 00:18:09,141
Everyone needs a Natasha. Yeah. I always say in a
305
00:18:09,189 --> 00:18:12,352
podcast conversation, there's 3 people, the host, the guest, and the listener.
306
00:18:12,901 --> 00:18:16,693
Thank you, Laura. Like one person is listening to us having this conversation now. And
307
00:18:16,693 --> 00:18:19,114
if we don't lose sight of that, and you have a live audience, you have
308
00:18:19,114 --> 00:18:21,826
the benefit of seeing the people that are listening in that moment, but it's always
309
00:18:21,842 --> 00:18:25,361
helpful to make it like an all-encompassing conversation. 'Cause it's not
310
00:18:25,732 --> 00:18:28,459
as much as like we're having this conversation, you and me, it's eventually gonna get
311
00:18:28,459 --> 00:18:32,202
published. And I always wanna create that environment for folks as
312
00:18:32,266 --> 00:18:35,929
well. So, well, Hari, I think about that because very early on, like year
313
00:18:36,058 --> 00:18:39,651
1 of the show, I got a note from someone in my network who said
314
00:18:39,651 --> 00:18:43,387
she listened to the show and what was being discussed was so important to
315
00:18:43,420 --> 00:18:45,761
her and she was driving at the time, she pulled over to the side of
316
00:18:45,761 --> 00:18:49,353
the road and started taking notes. Okay, so that's what I think about. Are all
317
00:18:49,353 --> 00:18:51,999
of my listeners pulling over to the side of the road to take notes? Probably
318
00:18:51,999 --> 00:18:55,430
not, but somebody is, right? And
319
00:18:55,847 --> 00:18:58,974
I am in service to them to make sure that they get, you know, if
320
00:18:59,054 --> 00:19:02,759
I wanna glean wisdom, I want them to as well. So that's what's always on
321
00:19:02,759 --> 00:19:06,511
my mind is that type of listener who's like really desperate and
322
00:19:06,511 --> 00:19:10,342
craving for that humanity. In understanding their career journey
323
00:19:10,374 --> 00:19:13,899
within the beauty industry. Did you always have that superpower? My
324
00:19:13,979 --> 00:19:17,808
superpower is like the overall one. And if you
325
00:19:17,808 --> 00:19:21,157
go to my LinkedIn, it says under my name, I'm a fortune teller.
326
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:25,739
So it's seeing 10 steps ahead and I'm listening for what's 10
327
00:19:25,739 --> 00:19:29,232
steps ahead, right? So the listening comes out of that, right? I have a
328
00:19:30,001 --> 00:19:33,798
really strong trust of my instincts. I piece things
329
00:19:33,798 --> 00:19:37,099
together very quickly. I see trends very quickly.
330
00:19:37,676 --> 00:19:41,434
And I'm able to create something that actually means
331
00:19:41,450 --> 00:19:45,046
something out of all these inputs. And because I'm able to do that,
332
00:19:45,544 --> 00:19:49,141
it makes the listening skills really strong, right? Because
333
00:19:49,735 --> 00:19:53,396
I'm listening for what's next. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, I can definitely relate.
334
00:19:53,813 --> 00:19:57,474
And how far back can you remember, like, doing that? Well,
335
00:19:57,619 --> 00:20:01,119
early in my career, I would call myself like a brat or a
336
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,546
jerk, like in my 20s. I, you know, graduated from
337
00:20:04,546 --> 00:20:08,183
college, got a good job, thought I was smarter than everybody who had
338
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,548
been working in the industry for 30 years. And
339
00:20:12,166 --> 00:20:15,838
I was, you know, probably pretty disrespectful. I didn't understand
340
00:20:15,838 --> 00:20:19,482
hierarchy and I didn't respect it. Kind of some of that is this,
341
00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:22,920
though. You know, it's like there is something inside of me that said, like, you
342
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,617
guys are missing something, right? You're not seeing the whole picture. You're only seeing this,
343
00:20:26,713 --> 00:20:30,083
like, you know, this moment in time. You're not thinking about what's next.
344
00:20:30,747 --> 00:20:34,323
And that trend would follow me through the years where, you know, I think it's
345
00:20:34,371 --> 00:20:37,723
sort of, I had no choice but to become my own, you know,
346
00:20:38,044 --> 00:20:41,748
business owner and not have a boss and to set my own sort of
347
00:20:42,293 --> 00:20:45,164
intentions in my work that I could see through to the end
348
00:20:45,918 --> 00:20:49,446
without, you know, interruption from other people's positions or
349
00:20:49,446 --> 00:20:53,295
decision making. So yeah, I think it's like there was just
350
00:20:53,295 --> 00:20:57,079
something inside of me since I was, you know, much younger. That
351
00:20:57,223 --> 00:21:00,844
knew something was out there. I couldn't have articulated it then. I really was, you
352
00:21:00,844 --> 00:21:04,626
know, a brat. But, you know, once I started, you know, being more serious
353
00:21:04,754 --> 00:21:08,568
in the marketing space and the beauty industry, you know, late 20s, early
354
00:21:08,616 --> 00:21:12,237
30s, I saw this skill developing. And then over time, I just
355
00:21:12,237 --> 00:21:15,538
decided to trust it. So if I spoke to your parents or your close friends,
356
00:21:15,554 --> 00:21:19,192
they wouldn't be surprised by what you did? Well, interesting.
357
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,845
Like, my parents, I'm sure, like, not surprised, but
358
00:21:23,198 --> 00:21:26,342
I show up in the world very differently now than I did, you know, in
359
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:30,209
my earlier career. I am so measured
360
00:21:30,321 --> 00:21:33,770
in my work and I really just wanna find the point from A to B
361
00:21:33,850 --> 00:21:37,331
that can create the most success for us, but also the most
362
00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:41,165
serenity. And I think this is one of the reasons why
363
00:21:41,454 --> 00:21:45,048
I love like watching reality TV, like the Real Housewives and all these shows,
364
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,577
Below Deck and stuff, Summer House. I love these shows because these
365
00:21:48,689 --> 00:21:52,029
people make, you know, throw temper tantrums,
366
00:21:52,704 --> 00:21:56,462
right, as a part of their daily life. And I don't, right? I'm
367
00:21:56,462 --> 00:21:59,851
choosing measured because I know measured is better for me, even though I want to
368
00:21:59,851 --> 00:22:03,047
throw a temper tantrum, right? And the work is hard, so there's plenty of moments
369
00:22:03,064 --> 00:22:06,758
for temper tantrums. But watching these people throw their temper
370
00:22:06,758 --> 00:22:10,388
tantrums, like, it feels so good for me. It's like an outlet.
371
00:22:10,854 --> 00:22:14,548
But I will always choose the measured path. And it's something I'm sure
372
00:22:14,548 --> 00:22:18,001
that's lessons learned over the years that have a hard effect.
373
00:22:19,157 --> 00:22:22,606
How big is the agency now? We're about 20 people. We're based in
374
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,232
Midtown New York and our clients are all over the country
375
00:22:27,134 --> 00:22:30,879
and we have 3 divisions. There's the creative team, the
376
00:22:30,879 --> 00:22:34,403
social media team, and the PR and influencer team, and they work very holistically
377
00:22:34,403 --> 00:22:37,805
together for our clients. It's been a lot— it's a tumultuous industry, isn't it? Like
378
00:22:37,853 --> 00:22:41,662
beauty and trends and obviously with everything happening with social, there's prob—
379
00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:44,602
I mean, you were there for the birth of it and I'm so happy Facebook
380
00:22:44,602 --> 00:22:48,162
wasn't around when I was growing up. There's stuff that I see
381
00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:51,770
online right now that just people are posting everything. So talk to me a little
382
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:55,572
bit about that, like growing up in that era when that wasn't a
383
00:22:55,604 --> 00:22:59,293
function of our daily lives and how that's connected to what's
384
00:22:59,293 --> 00:23:03,014
happening in your space. Well, this is so interesting because we were
385
00:23:03,207 --> 00:23:07,040
there for the birth of social media being a marketing tool. My team
386
00:23:07,553 --> 00:23:11,323
years ago actually built the first influencer programs ever. Our
387
00:23:11,323 --> 00:23:14,530
client at the time was Clinique, which is one of the biggest beauty brands out
388
00:23:14,530 --> 00:23:18,272
there. And we built like what influencer marketing looks like. And many
389
00:23:18,368 --> 00:23:22,078
of those tactics we developed early on are still best practices today.
390
00:23:22,656 --> 00:23:26,270
So yeah, we've been on the front lines of this work for, you know,
391
00:23:26,350 --> 00:23:30,172
much longer than many agencies even existed. And what that
392
00:23:30,188 --> 00:23:33,978
gives us is incredible institutional knowledge and very, very deep
393
00:23:33,978 --> 00:23:37,528
industry knowledge. So when these changes happen
394
00:23:37,736 --> 00:23:41,543
and they happen every day, things out of our control in the marketing ecosystem,
395
00:23:41,912 --> 00:23:45,199
we can rely on that foundation, right, to make informed
396
00:23:45,199 --> 00:23:49,031
decisions about how to handle what's coming next. And the
397
00:23:49,031 --> 00:23:52,382
kind of funny thing about being a marketing LMPD or any other category
398
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,391
is that when something new hits, right, a new algorithm, a new
399
00:23:56,487 --> 00:24:00,272
platform, a new whatever, nobody knows the answers, right?
400
00:24:00,432 --> 00:24:04,184
An agency with 1,000 people doesn't know more than we know. But
401
00:24:04,184 --> 00:24:08,032
what we can rely on is all of those years of that institutional and industry
402
00:24:08,032 --> 00:24:11,754
knowledge to inform like, Hey, well, we had this other thing, you know, that
403
00:24:11,754 --> 00:24:14,706
was invented and launched 5 years ago, and this is how we handled it. Let's
404
00:24:14,706 --> 00:24:18,380
try to modify something around there, you know, use what the data that we
405
00:24:18,380 --> 00:24:21,492
have to inform our decision making. So
406
00:24:22,166 --> 00:24:25,824
what's essential in this business and what hasn't changed since day one for me is
407
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,546
like we need to be able to pivot. We need to be agile
408
00:24:29,546 --> 00:24:33,253
and nimble. And we are like, we keep evolving the way that we do
409
00:24:33,253 --> 00:24:37,039
our work from the process, the types of work that we do,
410
00:24:37,247 --> 00:24:41,079
the services we offer. The type of experts that we need, because
411
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:44,780
if we sit still, we're dead, right? Like, that's the truth.
412
00:24:45,181 --> 00:24:48,930
But if we evolve with the times and try to stay ahead of what's
413
00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:52,215
coming next, then we're going to be able to deliver that service to the client
414
00:24:52,215 --> 00:24:55,772
that they're looking for. That's an interesting way to have been in that space early
415
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:59,121
on, then seeing that the influencers were an important part of this
416
00:24:59,586 --> 00:25:03,351
area as well. There's a company called Glycen. I'll connect you with them later,
417
00:25:03,367 --> 00:25:06,972
but I'm an advisor to them and they focus on the influencer space. And help
418
00:25:06,972 --> 00:25:10,643
you find and work with influencers and do a lot of AI-based
419
00:25:10,643 --> 00:25:14,475
research into trends and stuff, which is a fascinating space to watch as
420
00:25:14,571 --> 00:25:18,065
well. And I imagine with the beauty space, with the new
421
00:25:18,097 --> 00:25:21,672
administration in terms of like what we can put in beauty products now
422
00:25:21,881 --> 00:25:24,734
or what needs to be taken out of products, I'm sure companies are like really
423
00:25:24,766 --> 00:25:28,533
scrambling to figure out how they compete or how they
424
00:25:28,597 --> 00:25:31,996
reposition themselves in this new environment. Well, the scrambling is
425
00:25:31,996 --> 00:25:35,650
happening for a whole lot of reasons, right? Tariffs and, you know, the tariffs
426
00:25:35,650 --> 00:25:39,498
coming and going is very complicated for our clients. You know, what
427
00:25:39,498 --> 00:25:42,786
we offer our clients is our true
428
00:25:42,866 --> 00:25:46,715
understanding of culture, right? So beauty is like
429
00:25:46,715 --> 00:25:50,355
fashion at the center of culture. And my team's
430
00:25:50,419 --> 00:25:53,883
language is culture, right? So they know like how much
431
00:25:54,012 --> 00:25:57,700
cultural gravity is created by like a service, a product, a
432
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:01,549
treatment that you love. And it forms a belief system. So that's what
433
00:26:01,565 --> 00:26:05,270
we do. We build belief systems for our clients
434
00:26:05,270 --> 00:26:08,929
so that this cohort, this community of fans have something to
435
00:26:08,945 --> 00:26:12,636
grab on to. They're part of the culture too. So we do
436
00:26:12,636 --> 00:26:16,374
that with what we call value and velocity, right? Because everything has to happen
437
00:26:16,423 --> 00:26:19,584
so fast. And by the way, like no one's spending the amount of money on
438
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,002
marketing they used to, right, 20 years ago. So we have to do more with
439
00:26:23,050 --> 00:26:26,644
less, but it has to be high quality. It has to be intentional. It has
440
00:26:26,676 --> 00:26:30,447
to be high performing, right? So there's a lot of pressures on the
441
00:26:30,447 --> 00:26:34,251
team to get this right. And our clients have a ton of pressure too, right?
442
00:26:34,299 --> 00:26:37,172
If the campaign doesn't work, they're scared they're going to lose their job. Right. These
443
00:26:37,172 --> 00:26:40,927
are real concerns. But we're at the center of culture and we're
444
00:26:40,959 --> 00:26:44,683
at the— our work happens where culture converts. So
445
00:26:45,052 --> 00:26:48,551
in beauty, and maybe beauty is unique here versus other industries,
446
00:26:48,888 --> 00:26:52,130
you cannot be a brand and market in a surface-level way.
447
00:26:52,916 --> 00:26:56,543
It doesn't work like the customer sees through it. They know you're not real
448
00:26:56,768 --> 00:27:00,236
or you're not invested. What happens when culture converts is we're
449
00:27:00,236 --> 00:27:03,882
speaking to the cohorts within a target
450
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:08,058
that are like genuinely deeply interested in investing their
451
00:27:08,090 --> 00:27:11,607
time and their money into your skincare product or your haircare
452
00:27:11,607 --> 00:27:15,252
product or your, you know, fitness studio. So we actually,
453
00:27:15,477 --> 00:27:18,705
we have a chart in our capabilities deck that's like all these different
454
00:27:18,705 --> 00:27:22,383
cohorts, right? The biohackers, the longevity fans, the
455
00:27:22,383 --> 00:27:26,154
fragheads, the skin enthusiasts. All these different cohorts and they
456
00:27:26,234 --> 00:27:29,246
behave a little different from each other and we have to talk to them in
457
00:27:29,358 --> 00:27:33,044
really unique ways. Those are our fans, those are our future customers.
458
00:27:33,092 --> 00:27:36,297
That's where loyalty is built and that's where we're able to tell those
459
00:27:36,649 --> 00:27:40,335
stories around trust and relevance. I was making
460
00:27:40,335 --> 00:27:43,844
sure I could keep up with all of the cohorts. I almost lost you at
461
00:27:43,844 --> 00:27:47,530
Fragheads, but is that fragrance? Okay. Fragrance, right? Big fragrance
462
00:27:47,530 --> 00:27:51,023
fans. Then there's Skinthusiasts. So this would be— I'm sure you have some friends like
463
00:27:51,135 --> 00:27:54,803
this. They're not estheticians, they're not dermatologists, but by the way they
464
00:27:54,803 --> 00:27:58,503
speak, you think that they are, right? They're so invested in the education
465
00:27:58,503 --> 00:28:02,227
around skincare and high-performance medical-grade skincare. So they're the
466
00:28:02,227 --> 00:28:05,802
person that you turn to if you're like, should I get Botox? Should I get
467
00:28:05,850 --> 00:28:09,682
filler? And then there's, you know, there's biohackers are always looking for ways to
468
00:28:09,698 --> 00:28:13,321
improve like their longevity and their health, right? So I mean,
469
00:28:13,337 --> 00:28:16,960
that's just a small segment of who's out there, but that's what the work my
470
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,110
team is doing because we're at the center of culture, right? And that drills down
471
00:28:20,226 --> 00:28:24,058
really deeply into these individual cohorts. Yeah, it seems like you have to people
472
00:28:24,074 --> 00:28:27,472
who keep their finger on the pulse with what's happening, not only in terms of
473
00:28:27,472 --> 00:28:31,321
the industries themselves, like for the biohackers community, that's obviously big in the entrepreneurial
474
00:28:31,337 --> 00:28:35,131
space as well. And all these longevity clinics that are opening up and,
475
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:39,242
you know, it feels like people are becoming more, taking more responsibility for their
476
00:28:39,242 --> 00:28:42,963
health. So with AI, they're like, like I did myself, I dropped my results
477
00:28:42,963 --> 00:28:46,649
into ChatGPT and I'm like, you know, I'm having a longer conversation with
478
00:28:46,681 --> 00:28:50,335
ChatGPT than I am with my doctor because I, because they're going deeper, you know,
479
00:28:50,464 --> 00:28:54,192
and I can ask questions that I feel like I'm imposing. So, what trends, you
480
00:28:54,192 --> 00:28:57,179
know, obviously AI could be one of them, but what are you seeing that are
481
00:28:57,308 --> 00:29:01,082
the big trends that are affecting your space now? Well, I think that the trends
482
00:29:01,082 --> 00:29:04,744
are really about how we deliver information to customers, right? So
483
00:29:05,579 --> 00:29:09,354
because we have so many cohorts and they're all sort of unique in what
484
00:29:09,354 --> 00:29:12,807
they're looking for, we have to find ways to make our
485
00:29:12,807 --> 00:29:16,019
clients' resources go further than ever. Right. So
486
00:29:16,405 --> 00:29:20,082
maybe you're a brand with a Gen X target that's not the
487
00:29:20,178 --> 00:29:23,901
end of it, right? Like, what world are they part of? Are they skin enthusiasts
488
00:29:23,901 --> 00:29:26,902
or are they, you know, people who would— they call skip care, meaning like they
489
00:29:26,918 --> 00:29:29,839
want one product that does 9 things. They do not— they don't want to spend
490
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:33,514
a ton of time doing their skincare. Like, we need to understand where
491
00:29:33,514 --> 00:29:37,076
those customers are, like what they relate to, and then we can tell really rich
492
00:29:37,124 --> 00:29:40,863
stories. So then the team is creating, you know, ad campaigns
493
00:29:41,056 --> 00:29:44,635
really targeting that customer. They're developing social media programs
494
00:29:44,827 --> 00:29:48,485
really targeting those customers. We're doing PR and influencer programs very
495
00:29:48,581 --> 00:29:52,398
targeted to those customers. So like I said, we can't be surface here,
496
00:29:52,992 --> 00:29:55,526
right? In this industry, we have to be very specific. But if we can win
497
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:59,423
over one target and one cohort, well, then we can take those learnings and
498
00:29:59,423 --> 00:30:02,968
be like, oh, you know what, Gen X was our initial target, but we think
499
00:30:03,032 --> 00:30:06,449
that the millennials will like this because X, Y, Z. Let's replicate what we're doing,
500
00:30:06,481 --> 00:30:09,656
but for that audience, right? So we're able to test and learn with one
501
00:30:09,993 --> 00:30:13,730
audience and then bring those learnings and apply it to others and build more
502
00:30:13,794 --> 00:30:16,988
momentum for our clients. Yeah, it sounds like you have to have folks on the
503
00:30:16,988 --> 00:30:20,248
team who can keep their finger on the pulse of even naming
504
00:30:20,681 --> 00:30:23,668
what the current generation is named to, because I lose track at some point.
505
00:30:24,535 --> 00:30:28,228
That's right. Well, my team loves this world, right? People who work at Base
506
00:30:28,228 --> 00:30:31,953
Beauty just really want to be at the center of culture. That comes with
507
00:30:32,066 --> 00:30:35,887
also like all the tea spilling, right? Like we're— they're so close
508
00:30:36,015 --> 00:30:39,500
into like who these people are, who's moving the needle
509
00:30:40,174 --> 00:30:43,799
and You know, some of these people become friends of my team, right? Like
510
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:47,585
they're people in their world. Our clients are at the center of culture. We
511
00:30:47,585 --> 00:30:51,258
have, you know, clients who are notable people. So there's something that's really
512
00:30:51,322 --> 00:30:54,353
quite fun about moving pop culture forward and the fact that we get to do
513
00:30:54,369 --> 00:30:57,834
this in an industry that makes people feel good and informs them,
514
00:30:58,154 --> 00:31:01,908
helps them make decisions. It's really quite fun. It sounds like the way
515
00:31:01,908 --> 00:31:05,548
you describe the show and the conversations, you really want to
516
00:31:05,613 --> 00:31:09,077
give a stage to people who are in this industry who have stories to tell.
517
00:31:09,767 --> 00:31:13,202
And are there any common threads that have been happening through these conversations,
518
00:31:13,234 --> 00:31:16,813
success stories, people talking about the same issues that you've noticed over time?
519
00:31:17,471 --> 00:31:21,258
Yes, great question. The theme, and we just heard from Power Duos, which
520
00:31:21,258 --> 00:31:24,837
was a Q1 show, was all about trust,
521
00:31:25,030 --> 00:31:28,175
right? We were talking to two people who work together closely,
522
00:31:28,865 --> 00:31:32,621
and the word trust kept coming up in so many conversations
523
00:31:32,717 --> 00:31:36,184
and used in multiple ways, right? I have to trust that my business
524
00:31:36,184 --> 00:31:39,781
partner, you know, will make the right allocation decisions for
525
00:31:39,797 --> 00:31:43,490
product in the warehouse. I have to trust my business partner that they're going to,
526
00:31:43,891 --> 00:31:47,729
you know, develop content and marketing that's going to help us sell the product that's
527
00:31:47,729 --> 00:31:51,534
sitting in the warehouse. Right. So the trust theme is really quite beautiful
528
00:31:51,534 --> 00:31:55,259
to see. Like I said, we had sisters, we had husbands and wives,
529
00:31:55,292 --> 00:31:58,985
we had life partners, we had best friends, and then unlikely
530
00:31:59,049 --> 00:32:02,835
pairings as well. So That was actually really reassuring for
531
00:32:02,835 --> 00:32:05,368
me in that moment because, you know, I have to have trust in my team
532
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,103
too, right? Like, I can't do this alone and I
533
00:32:09,103 --> 00:32:12,052
don't want to do it alone also, right? That would be a really kind of
534
00:32:12,052 --> 00:32:15,627
sad way to run a business. So that's a very
535
00:32:15,819 --> 00:32:19,250
fruitful theme for Power Doers, and I would imagine that's going to continue. I think
536
00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:22,600
it's also a theme that's relevant to where we are today. Like, the world is
537
00:32:22,632 --> 00:32:26,126
topsy-turvy. You really just need to trust in someone and something
538
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:29,493
to be able to get through the day. And as you've been having these
539
00:32:29,589 --> 00:32:33,420
conversations and over the years and the show has grown, was there
540
00:32:33,468 --> 00:32:36,482
a point where it was like an inflection point or like, I can't believe this
541
00:32:36,482 --> 00:32:39,784
just happened at the show, like a milestone moment? Or— I'd say one of the
542
00:32:39,784 --> 00:32:43,343
milestone moments for me was this is pre-COVID. So the show is about
543
00:32:43,631 --> 00:32:47,462
maybe 4 years old, 4 or 5 years old at this point. And
544
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:51,342
we knew that doing the show, you know,
545
00:32:51,887 --> 00:32:55,702
one-on-one or over a Zoom-like tool is fine.
546
00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:59,742
But we also thought like, you know, there's people who really wanna be around the
547
00:32:59,726 --> 00:33:03,483
show as it gets made. So I had a friend who introduced me to
548
00:33:03,660 --> 00:33:07,402
the head of beauty at Saks Fifth Avenue, which is a notable department store.
549
00:33:08,076 --> 00:33:11,673
And this woman, Kate, said yes to my idea. And my idea was,
550
00:33:11,786 --> 00:33:15,351
let's bring the podcast onto the retail floor and invite your
551
00:33:15,383 --> 00:33:18,466
customers and our industry friends to come and watch the show get made, you know,
552
00:33:18,675 --> 00:33:21,951
and to be a part of it. And because it's Saks, every
553
00:33:21,999 --> 00:33:25,821
single show that we did there— and we did many on the floor in New
554
00:33:25,821 --> 00:33:29,418
York City at their flagship— their beautiful events and
555
00:33:29,932 --> 00:33:33,624
every time every single seat was filled. And of course, you know, it was like
556
00:33:33,624 --> 00:33:37,156
they had waiters passing hors d'oeuvres, they had a DJ, like they had
557
00:33:37,221 --> 00:33:40,849
gorgeous decor. They like really made it a moment and they understood the
558
00:33:40,849 --> 00:33:44,590
power of drawing in this event to also then
559
00:33:44,606 --> 00:33:48,154
push people to the retail floor. Right. So then they were able to collect data
560
00:33:48,218 --> 00:33:51,654
on, well, if we animate the store in this way, will it drive
561
00:33:51,702 --> 00:33:55,265
sales? And the answer was yes. So what I'm also really
562
00:33:55,297 --> 00:33:58,602
proud of from all of those shows, and I would always do like an informal
563
00:33:58,602 --> 00:34:02,277
survey at the top of the recording, I'd ask like, who is here just
564
00:34:02,277 --> 00:34:06,047
because they wandered by and then took a seat? Or were you here because, you
565
00:34:06,047 --> 00:34:09,866
know, we marketed the event and you showed up? And 99% of
566
00:34:09,962 --> 00:34:13,733
everybody who responded to my informal survey said they came for this
567
00:34:13,733 --> 00:34:17,407
purpose. So that shows me like retail has the opportunity
568
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,226
to animate in a new way beyond just having products on a shelf or behind
569
00:34:21,226 --> 00:34:25,030
a counter. Animate in a new way, bring events like our podcast to
570
00:34:25,078 --> 00:34:28,883
their stores and to their floors and bring in
571
00:34:28,980 --> 00:34:32,383
new customers that would not have been wandering in otherwise. I love that. It's like
572
00:34:32,528 --> 00:34:36,268
it seems like your marketing brain is always like on for these opportunities.
573
00:34:37,023 --> 00:34:40,282
Well, I mean, I love retail, you know, and retail is, you know,
574
00:34:40,811 --> 00:34:44,616
Saks and other stores. It's a very challenging time for them. They really
575
00:34:45,114 --> 00:34:48,389
needed to pivot a long time ago. Right. So the businesses are really struggling.
576
00:34:48,886 --> 00:34:52,717
But this type of discovery that you can have and that feeling you
577
00:34:52,733 --> 00:34:55,779
have when you find something you like in a store that you like, it's entertainment,
578
00:34:55,859 --> 00:34:59,418
right? It makes you feel good. And I'm actually like a perfect
579
00:34:59,803 --> 00:35:03,217
target for this because I actually hate shopping. Like, I don't want to try things
580
00:35:03,393 --> 00:35:06,455
on, you know, I don't want to return things if they don't fit. You know,
581
00:35:06,471 --> 00:35:09,822
it just sort of feels like a hassle. But if you can engage me in
582
00:35:09,822 --> 00:35:13,444
a shopping experience, you can engage anybody. So I would love to
583
00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:16,843
see our show move back to some retail floors
584
00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:20,899
and bring in that entertainment and education value to
585
00:35:21,284 --> 00:35:24,732
the environment and draw in more shoppers. I love that. If we're having this
586
00:35:24,732 --> 00:35:28,278
conversation a year from now, what would need to have happened for you
587
00:35:28,502 --> 00:35:32,304
to be happy with the progress of the show? Oh, just like keep doing it.
588
00:35:32,512 --> 00:35:36,009
Like, like I said, it is free therapy for me. It's free business coaching.
589
00:35:36,699 --> 00:35:39,891
I get to, you know, first of all, I get to invite friends to the
590
00:35:39,891 --> 00:35:43,308
show, right? People I've known for a long time. I get to twist the arms
591
00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:46,083
of friends that I've known for a long time who've been resistant to come on
592
00:35:46,083 --> 00:35:48,874
this show, and then they do and they like it. I get to meet so
593
00:35:48,874 --> 00:35:52,209
many new people, people I would never have met, you know, with all the conferences
594
00:35:52,306 --> 00:35:56,074
and all the meetings I have, I still can't meet everybody, right? So I
595
00:35:56,090 --> 00:35:59,522
get to sit down and have really honest, frank, vulnerable
596
00:35:59,522 --> 00:36:03,370
conversations with people that, you know, you can't do that over
597
00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:05,551
the phone. You can't be like, hey, like, let me send you an email and
598
00:36:05,551 --> 00:36:08,822
you'll talk vulnerably to me. Like, that doesn't happen. Somehow magically happens on a
599
00:36:08,822 --> 00:36:12,574
podcast, right? Well, I had a client for many
600
00:36:12,671 --> 00:36:16,409
years and we did, you know, photo shoots together and
601
00:36:16,457 --> 00:36:19,171
like created content together. So we were in front of each other quite a bit
602
00:36:19,171 --> 00:36:22,928
for many years. But when you're in these work environments, like, the work is what
603
00:36:22,944 --> 00:36:26,412
we're doing, right? That's what's coming first. When she came onto my show,
604
00:36:26,958 --> 00:36:30,667
I learned so much about her, things that she never revealed, and I really
605
00:36:30,731 --> 00:36:34,440
couldn't ask. Yeah, like, you know, sitting there watching the
606
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,893
photo shoot happen, right? But because of the podcast, because the
607
00:36:37,893 --> 00:36:41,136
topic of the podcast is really about you,
608
00:36:41,569 --> 00:36:45,309
career journey, right? It's not about what you're selling at work, right? It's about you.
609
00:36:45,935 --> 00:36:49,691
It opens the door for people to drop their guard and
610
00:36:49,691 --> 00:36:53,463
relax into the fact that like they actually do wanna talk about this and they
611
00:36:53,463 --> 00:36:56,577
need someone to talk about it with too, right? Because they're, you know, alone in
612
00:36:56,577 --> 00:36:59,995
their head just as much as I am. Regarding the show, what do you wish
613
00:37:00,060 --> 00:37:03,703
someone had told you earlier? Well, you know, it's interesting because
614
00:37:04,056 --> 00:37:07,828
with this show I had no preconceived notion of
615
00:37:07,828 --> 00:37:11,425
what this could become. Harry, with my business, like,
616
00:37:11,441 --> 00:37:14,863
that's where all the anxiety and the stress and like mentalness
617
00:37:15,441 --> 00:37:19,103
comes into play, because in my head the business was supposed to do X, Y,
618
00:37:19,151 --> 00:37:22,171
and Z in a certain amount of time, blah, blah, blah. But with the podcast,
619
00:37:22,203 --> 00:37:25,544
it's like, I'll just give it a try. I don't, you know, there's no expectation
620
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,398
here. So I would say the podcast has taught me that I can
621
00:37:29,495 --> 00:37:33,285
sort of rewrite what the business purpose is, right? I
622
00:37:33,285 --> 00:37:36,947
can, like I said earlier, like drop my guard a little bit on what the
623
00:37:36,963 --> 00:37:40,752
story of the business is, relax into it more, not
624
00:37:40,752 --> 00:37:44,477
pretend that perfection is even attainable, relax into
625
00:37:44,686 --> 00:37:48,427
the bumps in the road. So having the podcast and like the way I behave
626
00:37:48,539 --> 00:37:51,831
with the podcast and my sort of like lightness about it and how much I
627
00:37:51,831 --> 00:37:55,556
enjoy it, it's really taught me that I can try to achieve some more
628
00:37:55,604 --> 00:37:59,105
of that in my business. So how's it changed? And it sounds like it has,
629
00:37:59,362 --> 00:38:03,113
like how you lead. Well, in my podcast, I
630
00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:06,799
get to be me, right? Like, I am just me. This is just who I
631
00:38:06,831 --> 00:38:08,994
am. The way I am with you is the way that I am, you know,
632
00:38:09,234 --> 00:38:13,016
at CVS. And I just want to be me in my
633
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,813
day job too, right? And sometimes it's like, well, I'm— there's
634
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:20,547
the CEO Jodi. Yeah. And then there's the Jodi Jodi, the
635
00:38:20,547 --> 00:38:23,543
CVS. And right, this is Jodi.
636
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,453
And well, sometimes I have to be CEO Jodi, right?
637
00:38:27,902 --> 00:38:31,321
But for the most part, I really just want to be CBS Jodi
638
00:38:31,658 --> 00:38:35,044
or, you know, see you in town Jodi or like see you at the gym
639
00:38:35,044 --> 00:38:38,640
Jodi. So I have this outlet that lets me be myself and ask the
640
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,432
questions that are really top of mind. I would say like I do get to
641
00:38:41,464 --> 00:38:45,204
be that way mostly in my business except, you know, when CEO Jodi has
642
00:38:45,236 --> 00:38:48,591
to step in and my COO Sarah would, you know, sometimes
643
00:38:48,767 --> 00:38:52,459
present like a challenging decision to me and I'd say to her,
644
00:38:52,603 --> 00:38:56,168
well, Jodi, Jody wants it this way. She's like, but I need to know what
645
00:38:56,168 --> 00:38:59,686
CEO Jody wants, right? So, but for the most part, I get to be
646
00:38:59,686 --> 00:39:03,445
myself. And earlier in my career, I was playing a
647
00:39:03,445 --> 00:39:06,593
role, right? I wasn't really me. I was like who I thought I'm supposed to
648
00:39:06,593 --> 00:39:09,934
be. So this being the host of a podcast, it's really
649
00:39:09,966 --> 00:39:13,580
relaxed me into just like, you know, I love myself, I like myself, I want
650
00:39:13,580 --> 00:39:17,419
to show up as myself. I just have this tendency to bounce between the entrepreneurial
651
00:39:17,419 --> 00:39:20,695
questions and the podcast questions, but What was your most important hire
652
00:39:21,310 --> 00:39:24,369
at the agency? Oof. I mean, that's like sort of like seasons,
653
00:39:25,070 --> 00:39:28,780
right? So most important early on was actually just being able to
654
00:39:28,780 --> 00:39:32,425
hire somebody, right? There was, so there was me and then I would have a
655
00:39:32,425 --> 00:39:35,330
whole bunch of freelancers, right? So I'd only pay them when I had a project
656
00:39:35,330 --> 00:39:39,113
for them and that's fine, but you know, chaotic. And then I was
657
00:39:39,145 --> 00:39:42,960
doing that with, you know, someone again and again and she turned to
658
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,476
me and she was early in her career. She's like, I really need a full-time
659
00:39:45,476 --> 00:39:48,450
job. And I'm like, I don't know if I can give you a full-time job,
660
00:39:48,467 --> 00:39:51,520
right? So being able to get to the point where I gave somebody a full-time
661
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,442
job was amazing. And then, well, then she needed
662
00:39:55,716 --> 00:39:59,083
healthcare, right? I'm like, oh my. So it was like, oh, now I can provide
663
00:39:59,083 --> 00:40:02,498
you healthcare. I can figure that out. So those early moments
664
00:40:02,626 --> 00:40:06,432
of this actually becoming real and rooted, that's
665
00:40:06,432 --> 00:40:10,159
really like very special. But then it's also like these other
666
00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:13,565
seasons in the business where I'm like, hmm, for me to get from point A
667
00:40:13,565 --> 00:40:15,077
to point B, like I'm gonna need a different type of thinker. I'm gonna need
668
00:40:15,077 --> 00:40:18,611
a different level of expertise. That's
669
00:40:18,611 --> 00:40:22,114
expensive. How am I gonna afford that? Right? So being able to build up the
670
00:40:22,114 --> 00:40:24,782
revenue in the business and the stability of the business to be able to make
671
00:40:24,782 --> 00:40:28,493
those hires with experience, I mean, that's thrilling. Yeah. Right there.
672
00:40:28,622 --> 00:40:32,318
There's things that happen in my business every day that I don't know
673
00:40:32,318 --> 00:40:35,981
about, but I used to know everything. Yeah. Right. And I had to, 'cause I
674
00:40:36,014 --> 00:40:39,709
was, you know, one of very few. I get so tickled and like
675
00:40:39,709 --> 00:40:43,389
so many feelings of delight when I find out things I didn't know. Right. Because
676
00:40:43,437 --> 00:40:46,956
I I have this incredible team that puts out great work and that makes our
677
00:40:46,956 --> 00:40:50,796
clients happy and, you know, creates growth for them at the center of
678
00:40:50,796 --> 00:40:54,282
culture, right? So all these things that are important to my team. So yeah, I
679
00:40:54,507 --> 00:40:58,299
like it. My heart like gets all like tickly and happy when I hear
680
00:40:58,299 --> 00:41:01,898
these things. And there's, you know, there's problems that happen that I don't know about
681
00:41:01,898 --> 00:41:05,400
that get fixed. That's a delight. I mean, that's so
682
00:41:05,416 --> 00:41:08,935
exciting. Yeah, it's always a great feeling. It must be to have things
683
00:41:09,127 --> 00:41:12,952
being taken care of. Things that are— maybe you'd probably do them the same
684
00:41:12,984 --> 00:41:16,615
way, but now that you've had people under you that you've trained in your
685
00:41:16,679 --> 00:41:19,781
vision and what you, you know, how you like to do things,
686
00:41:20,697 --> 00:41:24,473
when they can start to do them unaided, that's got to be a really good
687
00:41:24,473 --> 00:41:28,056
feeling, right? Well, I have a team now where like we have
688
00:41:28,169 --> 00:41:32,009
like experienced leadership and that doesn't
689
00:41:32,105 --> 00:41:35,657
always just apply to the client work. Certainly does on a daily basis,
690
00:41:35,721 --> 00:41:39,503
but problems in the office, problems with staffing, like to be able to turn to
691
00:41:39,503 --> 00:41:43,317
people who have experience and I'm not in it alone, right?
692
00:41:43,557 --> 00:41:46,570
Like I have people who've been there to talk to.
693
00:41:47,403 --> 00:41:50,768
I mean, that feeling will never fade, you know, because for so many years, you
694
00:41:50,768 --> 00:41:54,389
know, I was really like the decision maker on everything and I was sort of
695
00:41:54,389 --> 00:41:58,123
felt like I was making decisions in the dark, you know. And then when
696
00:41:58,219 --> 00:42:01,728
I brought on an experienced COO and
697
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,642
CFO all of a sudden they flicked on the light switch
698
00:42:06,348 --> 00:42:09,810
and, you know, what they found was kind of scary, but they fixed it, you
699
00:42:09,810 --> 00:42:13,569
know, and now we make decisions in the light, you know,
700
00:42:13,617 --> 00:42:17,420
informed decisions. It's such a good feeling. It's such a special feeling. So
701
00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:21,077
I would, you know, to answer your questions more succinctly, there's different seasons, different moments
702
00:42:21,465 --> 00:42:24,215
of people, and that will continue. There's going to, you know, there's things in the
703
00:42:24,215 --> 00:42:27,336
future where like I'm going to set my sight on a next goal and we're
704
00:42:27,336 --> 00:42:30,403
going to need, you know, a different type of hire for that. I can't wait.
705
00:42:30,451 --> 00:42:34,256
I'm so excited. Well, I, I really have enjoyed this conversation and to
706
00:42:34,288 --> 00:42:37,339
hear about your journey. It's been inspiring and a lot of fun, and I love
707
00:42:37,339 --> 00:42:41,112
the enthusiasm and the energy you've brought to this conversation and that you bring to
708
00:42:41,112 --> 00:42:44,451
your podcast as well. I think that's what makes it fun for you to keep
709
00:42:44,484 --> 00:42:47,663
going. And I have a couple questions I ask as we wrap up these
710
00:42:47,711 --> 00:42:51,500
conversations. The first one is, what is something that you've changed your mind about
711
00:42:51,693 --> 00:42:55,353
recently? Harry just asked me a very hard question, which is why there's
712
00:42:55,402 --> 00:42:58,917
silence. And I love silence in the podcast because I, I
713
00:42:58,917 --> 00:43:01,805
remind people that's what happens in a real conversation.
714
00:43:03,667 --> 00:43:07,389
Right. So Harry asked me what recently I've changed my mind about,
715
00:43:08,143 --> 00:43:11,416
and I'm a little stumped. I'm a very
716
00:43:11,513 --> 00:43:15,299
decisive person and I'm not afraid to make
717
00:43:15,299 --> 00:43:18,957
decisions, even the hard ones. I also
718
00:43:19,134 --> 00:43:22,808
have learned to trust myself. So nothing is
719
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,274
coming to mind because, you know, certainly I've made decisions that like maybe didn't go
720
00:43:26,274 --> 00:43:29,912
our way. But like, that's the learning, right? And I do know that
721
00:43:29,912 --> 00:43:33,662
like every brick wall I run through has like a lot of valuable learning, like
722
00:43:33,662 --> 00:43:37,428
almost like equal to money on the other side. But I'm stumped here, Harry.
723
00:43:37,813 --> 00:43:41,210
I mean, sometimes people give me answers that are as simple as I switched from
724
00:43:41,258 --> 00:43:45,040
coffee to tea. I don't drink coffee, so I
725
00:43:45,232 --> 00:43:48,902
don't think I ever will. What is the most misunderstood thing about you?
726
00:43:49,431 --> 00:43:53,182
Oh, okay. So the most misunderstood thing about me I
727
00:43:53,294 --> 00:43:56,683
think it's that people think that this is all easy for me,
728
00:43:57,454 --> 00:44:00,633
right? I told you I show up measured and I have a lot of joy.
729
00:44:01,179 --> 00:44:05,018
So usually with a smile. And I actually have like a
730
00:44:05,082 --> 00:44:08,631
ton of anxiety about this. Like, this is so hard
731
00:44:08,952 --> 00:44:12,325
and like it would be hard on a normal day, but you have to add
732
00:44:12,325 --> 00:44:16,163
in the volatility of the marketplace to it, right? Every client we have
733
00:44:16,163 --> 00:44:19,920
has a CFO who's decided, no, we're not spending money because of the volatility. Which
734
00:44:20,033 --> 00:44:23,720
means, well, how do we make money, right? So, and that's just
735
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,374
one place where there's instability in the marketplace. There's many others.
736
00:44:27,984 --> 00:44:31,654
So, you know, I go to sleep at night thinking about, you know,
737
00:44:31,671 --> 00:44:35,325
these, you know, scary thoughts about like, you know, what kind of pivots do we
738
00:44:35,325 --> 00:44:38,916
need to make to be able to keep the business or get the business in
739
00:44:38,948 --> 00:44:42,363
these business— in these marketplace conditions? I wake up in the morning with those
740
00:44:42,635 --> 00:44:46,482
same concerns. Are we staffed right for this work? Are
741
00:44:46,482 --> 00:44:49,801
we, you know, do we have the right timeline for this work, right? Even though
742
00:44:49,801 --> 00:44:53,263
I'm not in the work every day the way I was years ago, well, it's
743
00:44:53,279 --> 00:44:57,045
certainly still on my mind, right? So I think people would think
744
00:44:57,045 --> 00:45:00,539
like it's just kind of easy breezy for me and it's really not.
745
00:45:00,891 --> 00:45:04,641
Well, I appreciate, you know, I love these long-form conversations 'cause they're an opportunity
746
00:45:04,657 --> 00:45:08,472
for you to be honest about what's happening in your world and not
747
00:45:08,504 --> 00:45:12,254
try to paint a picture of something that's not there. And I think people
748
00:45:12,286 --> 00:45:15,700
listening also can appreciate, especially if you're, whether it's on the podcasting
749
00:45:15,732 --> 00:45:19,418
side or business side or career side, like I think
750
00:45:19,498 --> 00:45:22,930
we need to be more upfront about saying these things out
751
00:45:22,946 --> 00:45:26,607
loud and the fact that it's okay. Like therapy has been extremely
752
00:45:26,623 --> 00:45:30,301
helpful for me and I've talked about my coming out of the spiritual closet
753
00:45:30,349 --> 00:45:33,208
journey as well on the show and just all these little things that in the
754
00:45:33,208 --> 00:45:36,982
past would be taboo. And I think we need to realize that there's a
755
00:45:36,982 --> 00:45:40,515
human being on the other side of these conversations that are struggling with stuff.
756
00:45:40,628 --> 00:45:44,064
And I've had that same experience of like waking up anxious because of
757
00:45:44,064 --> 00:45:47,822
business-related stuff or losing a big client. And it's just like,
758
00:45:47,903 --> 00:45:51,259
I wasn't, you know, and it's on the days you least expected and least wanted.
759
00:45:51,772 --> 00:45:55,539
So I appreciate you being open to that as well. Well, no one
760
00:45:55,539 --> 00:45:59,242
ever wants to lose a client, but I can tell you that like, if
761
00:45:59,290 --> 00:46:03,089
I'm like well fed and hydrated and I had enough sleep,
762
00:46:03,714 --> 00:46:06,856
when these things happen, I really am able to see them as like
763
00:46:07,144 --> 00:46:10,815
opportunities. Right. And we've had times, you know,
764
00:46:10,911 --> 00:46:14,614
growing pains or like we had a client that was very high
765
00:46:14,614 --> 00:46:18,157
profile, had very, you know, significant needs and we were not meeting their
766
00:46:18,221 --> 00:46:22,027
needs. And it was a mess and it was a really important client to me.
767
00:46:22,562 --> 00:46:26,288
And, but what I learned from that is like, oh, we don't have the right
768
00:46:26,288 --> 00:46:29,830
process, we don't have the right people. And I like, where can you get that
769
00:46:29,943 --> 00:46:33,435
lesson, right? And first of all, the client's paying us, so we're being paid to
770
00:46:33,435 --> 00:46:37,251
learn in some sense, right? So we completely rebuilt the way that
771
00:46:37,299 --> 00:46:40,301
we do our work and the way that we staff our work so that we
772
00:46:40,301 --> 00:46:43,302
can be great at this. 'Cause I knew we could be, right? It hurt that
773
00:46:43,302 --> 00:46:46,924
we weren't, being great at it, but we rebuilt it
774
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:50,947
and now we are beyond great at it. So if I'm not well fed,
775
00:46:50,963 --> 00:46:54,809
if I'm not well rested and not well hydrated, I'm not, I'm not
776
00:46:54,809 --> 00:46:58,479
able to see the positive. But you know, once I sort of get myself
777
00:46:58,479 --> 00:47:02,149
rooted in those basics, I'm able to realize like how fundamentally
778
00:47:02,181 --> 00:47:04,986
exciting it is to be able to live that way. Nobody wants to be in
779
00:47:04,986 --> 00:47:08,496
the hangry zone. No, I'm not good as hangry.
780
00:47:08,816 --> 00:47:12,198
You don't wanna be around the hangry person. Well, thanks again, Jodi. I really, really
781
00:47:12,198 --> 00:47:15,868
enjoyed this conversation and getting to know you. And about the show and about the
782
00:47:15,868 --> 00:47:19,153
agency. Is there anything else that you haven't shared or anything that's coming to mind?
783
00:47:19,233 --> 00:47:22,870
Yeah, I want to give something that I learned. If anyone out there
784
00:47:22,934 --> 00:47:26,620
wants to do these like marathon days of live recording in front of an audience,
785
00:47:26,780 --> 00:47:29,920
I want to share my like checklist of how I actually get through the day,
786
00:47:30,545 --> 00:47:33,654
okay? Because I had to work through this in therapy and coaching to get there
787
00:47:33,654 --> 00:47:36,650
because it is a big day. First of all, the night before I do like
788
00:47:36,715 --> 00:47:39,695
food prep, you know, as if I was like going to a sports thing. Like
789
00:47:39,823 --> 00:47:43,302
I make like an almond butter sandwich. I get my
790
00:47:44,152 --> 00:47:47,553
coconut water bottle ready. I make sure I have a big
791
00:47:47,777 --> 00:47:51,627
water bottle. I make sure I have all the snacks that I need, and I
792
00:47:51,691 --> 00:47:55,460
try to get a good night's sleep. Then in the morning, I will have like
793
00:47:55,460 --> 00:47:58,845
a really hearty breakfast, like a bacon, egg, and cheese, you know, something that's like,
794
00:47:59,005 --> 00:48:02,678
like so hearty there's no way I'm getting hungry anytime fast. Right,
795
00:48:02,694 --> 00:48:05,710
right. And I will take preventative
796
00:48:05,982 --> 00:48:09,575
Excedrin. So I take Excedrin with my breakfast.
797
00:48:09,912 --> 00:48:13,710
Because it has the caffeine, which is nice too, but it's going to help with
798
00:48:13,758 --> 00:48:17,171
any migraines that are going to come on. And inevitably they will come
799
00:48:17,347 --> 00:48:21,097
on because of all that intense listening, right? I'm
800
00:48:21,193 --> 00:48:24,815
not breathing, right? I'm like listening but not breathing. So
801
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:28,420
I take the Excedrin early in the day to prevent that migraine that will ultimately
802
00:48:28,420 --> 00:48:32,218
have come later when, when the adrenaline wears off. And then
803
00:48:32,346 --> 00:48:35,680
in between each episode, I go into a closed-door room
804
00:48:36,257 --> 00:48:39,837
on the other side of the event space. And I take a deep breath, I
805
00:48:39,885 --> 00:48:43,626
take some sips of that coconut water, I have some snacks, and then
806
00:48:44,043 --> 00:48:47,639
I take a deep breath and then go back out there and do the next
807
00:48:47,655 --> 00:48:51,171
episode. So this has worked for me every single time. I've
808
00:48:51,187 --> 00:48:54,959
walked out of my events without a migraine, which is such a delight.
809
00:48:55,441 --> 00:48:58,957
And I'm not like starving for lunch, you know, because I had that really hearty
810
00:48:59,213 --> 00:49:03,018
breakfast and I'm very well hydrated. I love that checklist.
811
00:49:03,082 --> 00:49:06,866
And whether you're doing a show in your format or even like solo, casters, I
812
00:49:06,866 --> 00:49:10,045
think it's a reminder. Mm-hmm. Because I've made the mistake of booking several
813
00:49:10,094 --> 00:49:13,321
back-to-backs of these remotely and I see them on the calendar and it's like, oh,
814
00:49:13,563 --> 00:49:17,229
I don't have any breaks. I don't pull those in. And I think, yeah,
815
00:49:17,245 --> 00:49:20,844
having that reset time is helpful. So thank you for that. And we'll make sure
816
00:49:20,844 --> 00:49:24,478
that's outlined in the show notes. Again, truly enjoyed the conversation and
817
00:49:24,494 --> 00:49:27,875
connecting with you. I'm really glad your team reached out. Appreciate it. Where's the best
818
00:49:27,891 --> 00:49:31,579
place for folks to connect and learn more about what you're working on? Well, they
819
00:49:31,579 --> 00:49:34,544
can go to basebeauty.com, but the other option, I am big on LinkedIn. You know,
820
00:49:34,561 --> 00:49:38,274
that's my place. I actually don't have any personal social That's the
821
00:49:38,338 --> 00:49:42,150
only one. So I'm very active on LinkedIn and happy to answer anyone's
822
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:44,803
questions. Okay. I'll make sure all those links in the show notes. Thanks again, Jord.
823
00:49:45,029 --> 00:49:47,827
Thanks again, Jodi. Awesome. Thank you. It was really fun, Harry. All right.