1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,400 Welcome to Basecamp, where we equip Christians to go to the 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,400 darkest places and least reached people groups with the gospel. 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:13,600 My name is Mikel Collins and in this episode I sit down with 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:18,000 Jeremy Jenkins to discuss the value of short term mission trips. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,800 There is a lot of critisism for short term mission trips nowadays. 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:28,800 And part of the reason for that is becuase there are a lot of bad 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:34,000 missions trips that don't actually help anyone other than the people who are 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,400 looking for their next instagram post. 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:42,400 But that doesn't mean we need to do away with short term missions entirely, and 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:48,800 Jeremy has outlined a handfull of things we can do to ensure that our short term 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,000 trips are a blessing and not a burden. 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,269 Welcome to Base Camp, where we equip Christians to go to the darkest places and 13 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,560 least reach people groups with the gospel. 14 00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:03,379 My name is Michael Collins, and in this episode, I sit down with 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,730 Jeremy Jenkins to discuss the value of short term missions trips. 16 00:01:08,311 --> 00:01:12,796 There's a lot of criticism for short term trips nowadays, and The reason for 17 00:01:12,796 --> 00:01:17,556 that is because there are a lot of bad missions trips that don't actually help 18 00:01:17,586 --> 00:01:21,546 anyone other than the people who are looking for their next Instagram post. 19 00:01:22,086 --> 00:01:26,186 But that doesn't mean that we need to do away with short term trips entirely. 20 00:01:26,606 --> 00:01:30,666 And Jeremy has outlined a handful of things we can do to ensure 21 00:01:30,666 --> 00:01:34,076 that our short term trips are a blessing and not a burden. 22 00:01:34,706 --> 00:01:35,866 Welcome to base camp. 23 00:01:37,301 --> 00:01:43,001 Jeremy: So, Mike, the question of the day is, are short term missions good? 24 00:01:43,001 --> 00:01:44,221 Short term missions trips. 25 00:01:45,031 --> 00:01:47,561 So, I think the first thing would be, have you ever been 26 00:01:47,561 --> 00:01:48,551 on a short term missions trip? 27 00:01:49,051 --> 00:01:53,591 Mike: Yeah, I have, I've been on at least two. 28 00:01:53,651 --> 00:01:58,781 Coming to mind, one was just pretty much a day that we had planned with this missions 29 00:01:58,781 --> 00:02:01,361 organization in Shelby, North Carolina. 30 00:02:01,461 --> 00:02:04,161 we put on this little event and then went door to door. 31 00:02:04,986 --> 00:02:08,766 knocking on doors in this neighborhood near the event to just invite people 32 00:02:08,766 --> 00:02:12,456 and talk to them about Christ and tell them we had some games for their kids 33 00:02:12,456 --> 00:02:16,806 if they wanted to come down and we did gospel presentation and things like that. 34 00:02:17,296 --> 00:02:23,977 and then when I was younger, I drove down to Louisiana after some 35 00:02:23,977 --> 00:02:26,537 flooding down there maybe 2018. 36 00:02:27,227 --> 00:02:30,707 I don't remember exactly when it was, but I was with Samaritan's Purse. 37 00:02:30,797 --> 00:02:32,617 There'd been some flooding in this neighborhood. 38 00:02:32,747 --> 00:02:38,077 and we were going to the houses during the day and cutting out drywall. 39 00:02:38,097 --> 00:02:42,237 and I went underneath a single wide trailer and was cutting insulation 40 00:02:42,237 --> 00:02:46,827 out that had just been ruined by this flood with a team of people. 41 00:02:46,827 --> 00:02:50,347 And then whenever we finished on a house, we would present them with a Bible 42 00:02:50,807 --> 00:02:52,567 And talk to them and pray with them. 43 00:02:52,867 --> 00:02:54,007 And that was really cool. 44 00:02:54,057 --> 00:02:58,107 Cause I went down by myself and I was one of the only. 45 00:02:58,552 --> 00:02:59,842 Younger people there. 46 00:02:59,872 --> 00:03:05,682 I was probably 19 at the time and, it was mostly retired couples and their RVs. 47 00:03:05,692 --> 00:03:09,562 So this one lone 19 year old kid showing up, everybody wanted 48 00:03:09,562 --> 00:03:11,032 to talk to me, which was cool. 49 00:03:11,182 --> 00:03:12,212 Figure out why I was there. 50 00:03:12,212 --> 00:03:16,232 Jeremy: Yeah, I think my first short term trip was actually in New Orleans as well. 51 00:03:16,472 --> 00:03:18,232 it was after, Hurricane Katrina. 52 00:03:18,732 --> 00:03:20,282 about 10 years before you were down there. 53 00:03:20,762 --> 00:03:27,382 That was my first short term trip of any kind and then, years later, I would 54 00:03:27,382 --> 00:03:33,982 begin, going on what seems to be a ton of different, international trips. 55 00:03:33,982 --> 00:03:38,082 Now this summer, I believe is your first international trip of any kind. 56 00:03:38,402 --> 00:03:40,582 Mike: Planning to go down to Guatemala for a week. 57 00:03:40,922 --> 00:03:42,952 Never been out of the country before. 58 00:03:42,952 --> 00:03:45,152 So I'm in the process of getting the passport. 59 00:03:45,572 --> 00:03:48,092 I'm excited, but I really don't know what to expect. 60 00:03:48,152 --> 00:04:06,057 Jeremy: and I'm excited, but I really don't know what to expect. 61 00:04:06,557 --> 00:04:11,523 Are you familiar at all with any reasons why somebody would 62 00:04:11,523 --> 00:04:14,013 be against short-term missions? 63 00:04:14,513 --> 00:04:17,123 Mike: A question that I honestly have trouble answering myself, 64 00:04:17,133 --> 00:04:21,813 which I'm curious to know how you respond to this, which is, you know, 65 00:04:21,813 --> 00:04:27,503 it costs a chunk of money to send American teenagers or young adults 66 00:04:27,593 --> 00:04:27,823 Jeremy: down. 67 00:04:27,943 --> 00:04:32,843 Mike: to Guatemala or, yeah, anybody to another country for a week to do missions. 68 00:04:33,333 --> 00:04:37,703 Would it not be More efficient and more impactful just to send the 69 00:04:37,703 --> 00:04:41,393 money and hire somebody down there to do the work that needs to be done 70 00:04:41,393 --> 00:04:45,563 or, or just to support the career missionaries that are down there. 71 00:04:45,618 --> 00:04:48,878 Jeremy: I get that question all the time, especially from people online. 72 00:04:49,018 --> 00:04:51,238 You know, they see your pictures on Instagram. 73 00:04:51,288 --> 00:04:53,618 And, you know, inevitably there's always one person. 74 00:04:53,618 --> 00:04:57,048 So it's like, wouldn't it have been better to just take all this money 75 00:04:57,048 --> 00:04:59,268 and send it to the nationals there? 76 00:04:59,268 --> 00:05:03,268 Or, you know, even for the hurricane relief trips, like, you know, they 77 00:05:03,268 --> 00:05:07,578 have tradesmen in New York or Louisiana that could have done all that work, you 78 00:05:07,578 --> 00:05:08,968 know, why not just send them that money? 79 00:05:09,798 --> 00:05:15,673 And I think it sort of leads us to Really the need to even ask this question of 80 00:05:15,673 --> 00:05:21,963 like, okay, I want to respond to those questions, with as much negativity and 81 00:05:22,203 --> 00:05:25,833 antagonism as maybe sometimes those questions are asked in a lot of ways. 82 00:05:26,193 --> 00:05:28,973 I, I'm, I'm willing to venture to guess that a lot of times the people 83 00:05:28,973 --> 00:05:32,303 who ask those questions are not sending that much money themselves. 84 00:05:32,603 --> 00:05:35,953 it kinda goes back to the old, I think it's Spurgeon of like my way of doing it 85 00:05:35,983 --> 00:05:37,553 is better than your way of not doing it. 86 00:05:38,483 --> 00:05:41,428 But beyond that, It is an important question to ask, like, 87 00:05:41,458 --> 00:05:42,978 are short term missions good? 88 00:05:43,688 --> 00:05:48,668 And, the American church has spent probably billions, if not, billions 89 00:05:48,668 --> 00:05:55,398 and billions of dollars over the last 50 years, sending teams of American 90 00:05:55,398 --> 00:05:59,198 Christians all over the world for the sake of spreading the gospel. 91 00:05:59,698 --> 00:06:03,808 But we, I think we would be remiss to think that that's been as effective 92 00:06:03,808 --> 00:06:04,878 as sometimes we think it is. 93 00:06:04,878 --> 00:06:09,358 And so I wrote this brief little article on the website. 94 00:06:10,168 --> 00:06:14,108 That was just kind of, a thought in my mind of like our short term missions. 95 00:06:14,128 --> 00:06:14,378 Good. 96 00:06:14,408 --> 00:06:19,158 And basically in my experience, like I've been on a ton, you know, I've been 97 00:06:19,158 --> 00:06:24,538 to Asia quite a few times, the Middle East, Central America, and even here 98 00:06:24,558 --> 00:06:26,328 in the States, some here in the States. 99 00:06:26,918 --> 00:06:29,918 And basically the conclusion that I've come to is like, yeah, 100 00:06:29,918 --> 00:06:31,438 they are, but only the good ones. 101 00:06:32,108 --> 00:06:34,258 and there are good and bad missions trips. 102 00:06:34,258 --> 00:06:37,738 And actually I would say, for listeners, I think, and especially for, two 103 00:06:37,738 --> 00:06:42,808 pastors, I think this should be really convicting is that there probably are 104 00:06:42,808 --> 00:06:47,308 trips that I've gone on that it would have been better to just take that money. 105 00:06:47,703 --> 00:06:50,253 And send it to somebody in a different country. 106 00:06:50,703 --> 00:06:54,133 that what we were doing was not worth the time and the effort. 107 00:06:54,573 --> 00:06:57,443 And that's why I think that like this conversation and that article 108 00:06:57,443 --> 00:07:01,373 is worth writing and reading and talking about, because I do think 109 00:07:01,373 --> 00:07:02,463 there are really good trips. 110 00:07:02,483 --> 00:07:05,793 And I do think that there are actual ways to do short term 111 00:07:05,793 --> 00:07:11,633 missions where it is worth spending the money, and things like that. 112 00:07:11,833 --> 00:07:15,803 And so, yeah, so basically I just, I think it was like three, four of things 113 00:07:15,803 --> 00:07:19,883 that, like, you know, I just said, Hey, these are things that you should consider 114 00:07:19,883 --> 00:07:22,233 doing, with all that time and money. 115 00:07:22,573 --> 00:07:25,443 and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on these is the first one I said 116 00:07:25,453 --> 00:07:28,483 is avoid having the savior complex. 117 00:07:28,873 --> 00:07:33,313 you know, when you went down to Louisiana, I doubt that you probably felt this a ton, 118 00:07:33,713 --> 00:07:38,163 but was there any thought in your mind at all of like, is there too much, is there 119 00:07:38,163 --> 00:07:41,333 too much idea of like, Hey, we're really. 120 00:07:41,758 --> 00:07:44,778 We're really bringing something to these people that they don't already have. 121 00:07:45,078 --> 00:07:47,758 cause I know I've experienced that in some ways, especially on 122 00:07:47,758 --> 00:07:49,288 the international mission field. 123 00:07:49,803 --> 00:07:51,053 Mike: Yeah, not really. 124 00:07:51,378 --> 00:07:51,888 Jeremy: Stateside. 125 00:07:52,388 --> 00:07:56,108 Mike: When I went down to Louisiana, my mindset wasn't even on, I didn't 126 00:07:56,118 --> 00:07:57,918 view that even as a missions trip. 127 00:07:58,088 --> 00:08:00,938 Jeremy: A lot of times we don't, when we say missions trip, yeah. 128 00:08:00,998 --> 00:08:04,568 We're not talking about Louisiana or New York after hurricane or Appalachia. 129 00:08:04,618 --> 00:08:07,348 We're talking about getting on a plane and going over somewhere, somewhere 130 00:08:07,348 --> 00:08:08,638 foreign where we need a passport. 131 00:08:08,978 --> 00:08:09,408 Mike: Yeah. 132 00:08:10,048 --> 00:08:16,188 But I went, I never spoke this to anybody, but I knew why I was going to Louisiana. 133 00:08:16,268 --> 00:08:18,958 And It was mostly for me, honestly. 134 00:08:18,998 --> 00:08:23,638 Like, I was glad to be doing something meaningful and helping people 135 00:08:24,038 --> 00:08:27,788 every day with my time, but I went down there because I was looking 136 00:08:27,788 --> 00:08:29,608 for an adventure of some sort. 137 00:08:29,638 --> 00:08:32,588 I wanted to go and try doing something on my own. 138 00:08:32,598 --> 00:08:39,393 You know, I was 18, 19, just Ready to try and go out in the world and do something 139 00:08:39,393 --> 00:08:45,663 by myself away from my parents and in my hometown and So I was very much. 140 00:08:45,713 --> 00:08:50,053 I knew that I was going down there because I wanted to help People but I also wanted 141 00:08:50,053 --> 00:08:55,543 to do it Largely for myself to to get the experience and the adventure of 142 00:08:55,543 --> 00:08:57,813 traveling and and doing it all on my own. 143 00:08:57,883 --> 00:09:00,553 Jeremy: I think more people need to be honest that that 144 00:09:00,553 --> 00:09:01,633 is part of the motivation. 145 00:09:01,633 --> 00:09:05,618 Because when you bring that to the table and you say, Hey, I kind of recognize 146 00:09:05,618 --> 00:09:09,643 something, deficients probably not the right word, but like, I kind of recognize 147 00:09:09,643 --> 00:09:11,803 something in my life that is gonna be. 148 00:09:12,458 --> 00:09:15,648 Is gonna benefit I'm gonna benefit from this trip and it's 149 00:09:15,648 --> 00:09:17,908 gonna Progress my sanctification. 150 00:09:18,138 --> 00:09:22,748 I think right away that helps you understand Kind of something that I 151 00:09:22,748 --> 00:09:26,538 put in in this blog post, which is like hey, it's only a week Like you're not 152 00:09:26,538 --> 00:09:27,808 gonna be able to really do that much. 153 00:09:27,808 --> 00:09:29,118 Anyway, you know what I mean? 154 00:09:29,168 --> 00:09:34,008 like especially in the international trips when I got On the van to 155 00:09:34,008 --> 00:09:35,468 go down for this first trip. 156 00:09:35,968 --> 00:09:37,508 I was traveling with a college group. 157 00:09:37,688 --> 00:09:40,448 With a ministry that I was really close with and that I had worked 158 00:09:40,738 --> 00:09:41,858 a summer camp ministry actually. 159 00:09:41,918 --> 00:09:46,098 And our leader who was like a mentor in my life at the time Before we got 160 00:09:46,098 --> 00:09:48,918 in the van stopped us and he was like, I have to tell you something really 161 00:09:48,918 --> 00:09:53,978 important He was like jesus has has been in louisiana long before we're gonna get 162 00:09:53,978 --> 00:09:59,878 there He's going to preserve Louisiana in the whole midst of us being there. 163 00:09:59,898 --> 00:10:02,618 And he's going to be there long after we leave. 164 00:10:03,068 --> 00:10:07,068 We're not bringing Jesus to these people, I think because that was my first missions 165 00:10:07,068 --> 00:10:09,748 experience, it was really important for me to hear because I've kind of carried that 166 00:10:09,748 --> 00:10:14,778 into a lot of my other, trips, especially even to places where it isn't as 167 00:10:14,778 --> 00:10:18,998 evangelized is that, you know, ultimately if I'm going for a week, if I'm going 168 00:10:19,028 --> 00:10:23,768 for two weeks somewhere and I don't know the language, I don't know the culture. 169 00:10:24,618 --> 00:10:32,088 then I need to leave any sense of savior ism At home, because ultimately 170 00:10:32,598 --> 00:10:37,968 I can't have a humongous positive impact where I'm going, but I can 171 00:10:37,978 --> 00:10:39,468 have a humongous negative impact. 172 00:10:39,988 --> 00:10:44,758 And so I think especially in regards to international trips, like from a mindset 173 00:10:44,868 --> 00:10:51,958 heart issue of like, Understand your place in the world of the church, because most 174 00:10:51,958 --> 00:10:55,648 of these short term trips are not going to like unengaged, unreached people groups, 175 00:10:56,088 --> 00:11:00,198 and nor should they, because like those take a lot of strategy and, you need to 176 00:11:00,208 --> 00:11:02,578 be networked with nationals on the ground. 177 00:11:03,178 --> 00:11:06,758 And so ultimately, like for a missions pastor listening to this or a church 178 00:11:06,758 --> 00:11:11,378 leader, Prep your teams, prep your students, prep your adults to know 179 00:11:11,378 --> 00:11:15,478 their place in the global church and to understand that part of the 180 00:11:15,478 --> 00:11:18,308 reason we're going, and we'll get to some of these other reasons. 181 00:11:18,308 --> 00:11:20,478 But part of the reasons is like, Hey, it is for us. 182 00:11:20,478 --> 00:11:23,368 there is a benefit for us to go and do these things. 183 00:11:24,078 --> 00:11:29,598 and the role we're going to play is not going to be. 184 00:11:30,323 --> 00:11:34,883 Sort of like this frontier missionary figure that I think we all like to think 185 00:11:34,883 --> 00:11:38,623 of ourselves as it's actually going to be in a much more of a support based 186 00:11:38,623 --> 00:11:40,823 role to the people who are already 187 00:11:41,281 --> 00:11:45,776 Mike: there. 188 00:11:46,476 --> 00:11:49,906 Like a feeling that you have to present yourself that way or you have to think 189 00:11:49,916 --> 00:11:54,926 about it as that way especially if you're a youth member trying to raise support 190 00:11:55,156 --> 00:12:00,486 and Give people a reason to to give you their money so that you can travel to 191 00:12:00,486 --> 00:12:06,766 another country is like you feel like oh I have to emphasize all of the non 192 00:12:06,766 --> 00:12:11,836 selfish Savior complex kind of reasons to go down there and kind of diminish 193 00:12:11,856 --> 00:12:14,886 any reasons that I might personally have for wanting to go down there. 194 00:12:15,216 --> 00:12:18,051 Jeremy: Yeah, what's funny is like, At our church, like we don't do 195 00:12:18,051 --> 00:12:21,651 a ton of building buildings and, and, and doing some of the more 196 00:12:21,651 --> 00:12:24,191 typical Western mission strip things. 197 00:12:24,531 --> 00:12:28,511 and part of that is because, you know, ultimately Americans don't know how 198 00:12:28,511 --> 00:12:32,221 to build Guatemalan buildings and, American electricians don't know 199 00:12:32,221 --> 00:12:33,881 how to do electrical in Guatemala. 200 00:12:33,881 --> 00:12:37,401 And so actually historically, the church has learned some hard 201 00:12:37,401 --> 00:12:38,096 lessons about building buildings. 202 00:12:38,736 --> 00:12:41,396 Missions in general, because even full time missionaries for a long 203 00:12:41,396 --> 00:12:44,846 time, when the Western church really started sending modern missionaries, 204 00:12:45,236 --> 00:12:49,456 what they found was that like, we would go build American buildings. 205 00:12:49,686 --> 00:12:51,206 We would build American churches. 206 00:12:51,246 --> 00:12:53,086 We would play American Christian music. 207 00:12:53,456 --> 00:12:57,306 But then when the missionary would go home, the church movement would die and 208 00:12:57,326 --> 00:13:00,446 they began to figure out that it was like, Oh, it's because they don't know how 209 00:13:00,446 --> 00:13:02,326 to fix and maintain American buildings. 210 00:13:02,636 --> 00:13:05,477 they don't resonate with American, Music. 211 00:13:05,537 --> 00:13:08,757 I think on a much smaller scale, like we've seen the same thing happen 212 00:13:09,197 --> 00:13:13,927 with these Western short term teams that sometimes have that same sort 213 00:13:13,927 --> 00:13:16,907 of like, well, we need to go show them the right way to do things. 214 00:13:17,117 --> 00:13:21,407 But what's unfortunate is what you just said, which People feel 215 00:13:21,407 --> 00:13:24,867 like, well, I need to emphasize what I'm doing to raise money. 216 00:13:25,317 --> 00:13:28,127 And I think that's actually where, like from a church perspective, 217 00:13:28,127 --> 00:13:31,647 like we need to raise up healthier mission sending cultures in our 218 00:13:31,647 --> 00:13:33,597 churches to where people understand. 219 00:13:33,597 --> 00:13:35,857 No, actually sometimes it's, and we'll get to some of these other 220 00:13:35,857 --> 00:13:38,607 things about like, what really should you be doing if you're not going. 221 00:13:39,172 --> 00:13:42,362 You know, to be this pioneer missionary for a week, which is ridiculous. 222 00:13:42,582 --> 00:13:45,742 Well, those oftentimes these other things don't raise money the same 223 00:13:45,742 --> 00:13:51,182 way that building a building or being, a pioneer missionary, does. 224 00:13:51,232 --> 00:13:55,842 I'm not speaking ill of the building project mission trips at all But I do 225 00:13:55,872 --> 00:13:59,072 think that they're not as effective as sometimes people think that they are I 226 00:13:59,082 --> 00:14:03,022 think that they make great pictures on Instagram But at the end of the day, like 227 00:14:03,022 --> 00:14:07,312 I think there are more fruitful things that we can be doing With our short term 228 00:14:07,482 --> 00:14:11,462 teams, once we realized that they're starting with a handicap, they don't know 229 00:14:11,462 --> 00:14:12,972 the culture, they don't know the language. 230 00:14:13,442 --> 00:14:15,472 they're probably going to be jet lagged for the first day, 231 00:14:15,492 --> 00:14:16,642 depending on how far away they are. 232 00:14:16,642 --> 00:14:19,202 you lose a day going there and going back. 233 00:14:19,212 --> 00:14:21,732 with four and five days, how effective can we really be? 234 00:14:22,402 --> 00:14:23,612 I think these other things that. 235 00:14:24,302 --> 00:14:26,482 that I put forward, are some of the answers. 236 00:14:26,522 --> 00:14:30,272 The first one, and Mike, you'll experience this when you go to Guatemala, you'll 237 00:14:30,272 --> 00:14:33,972 be working with some dear friends of mine, who will then become dear 238 00:14:33,972 --> 00:14:37,732 friends of yours as well, is serve and care for career missionaries. 239 00:14:37,792 --> 00:14:39,412 I think not enough gets made of this. 240 00:14:39,912 --> 00:14:44,942 I think that, just hearing a lot of my friends who serve full time 241 00:14:44,952 --> 00:14:51,892 overseas, Tell me summer after summer that for two or three months that they 242 00:14:51,892 --> 00:14:53,832 pretty much just become tour guides 243 00:14:54,332 --> 00:14:58,392 They have to arrange all these community projects and then two or three days 244 00:14:58,392 --> 00:15:03,412 of each week, they spend driving teams around to random tourist destinations. 245 00:15:03,432 --> 00:15:08,692 And they do this because at the end of the week, they're probably going to stand 246 00:15:08,692 --> 00:15:10,372 some sort of financial benefit from this. 247 00:15:10,852 --> 00:15:14,892 But what ends up happening is like career missionaries spend their whole summer 248 00:15:14,892 --> 00:15:17,052 doing this, at least the ones I know. 249 00:15:17,952 --> 00:15:19,412 And then. 250 00:15:20,052 --> 00:15:23,692 They're glad to see those teams go because while it might have been a 251 00:15:23,692 --> 00:15:27,452 financial benefit to them, it was not a spiritual or an emotional benefit to them. 252 00:15:27,962 --> 00:15:30,912 Like they're even more exhausted than they would have been 253 00:15:30,992 --> 00:15:32,442 if they had just continued. 254 00:15:32,972 --> 00:15:35,152 doing the work, that they were called to do. 255 00:15:35,152 --> 00:15:38,312 And so basically I put forth in the blog post is like, what if we built 256 00:15:38,312 --> 00:15:41,582 our short term endeavors to be a breath of fresh air to career missionaries? 257 00:15:41,942 --> 00:15:45,102 You know, cause you'll see Mike and I, and I doubt this will be the last 258 00:15:45,102 --> 00:15:46,252 time you travel internationally. 259 00:15:46,252 --> 00:15:47,262 In fact, I hope it's not. 260 00:15:47,532 --> 00:15:51,542 I'd love to take you to some pretty wild places, in Asia, but, oftentimes 261 00:15:51,542 --> 00:15:54,602 these are people who like, they don't ever get to speak their language. 262 00:15:55,572 --> 00:15:56,272 you know what I mean? 263 00:15:56,272 --> 00:15:59,022 Like when you get down to Guatemala, you'll be with our friends, Richard 264 00:15:59,022 --> 00:16:04,102 and Laurie, like they've had to labor over the last handful of 265 00:16:04,102 --> 00:16:05,912 years to become fluent in Spanish. 266 00:16:06,312 --> 00:16:09,832 And so like, they don't even speak English to each other as much as they used to, 267 00:16:09,832 --> 00:16:11,672 because they sort of have to learn this. 268 00:16:11,672 --> 00:16:15,472 And so the joy of having a team sitting around in their living room to just be 269 00:16:15,472 --> 00:16:19,852 able to speak English with, you know, and to, to just like express care to 270 00:16:19,852 --> 00:16:22,962 them, you know, help take care of their kids, be community for their kids. 271 00:16:23,412 --> 00:16:27,572 And like, for a missionary kid to be able to be like, Hey, 272 00:16:27,572 --> 00:16:29,822 let's play a game, you know? 273 00:16:29,822 --> 00:16:32,872 And like, I think people like, once again, that doesn't raise funds 274 00:16:32,872 --> 00:16:35,152 necessarily as well as some things. 275 00:16:35,492 --> 00:16:37,902 but actually I think it's, it's probably. 276 00:16:38,497 --> 00:16:44,167 It's probably has a has a more long standing eternal impact because these 277 00:16:44,167 --> 00:16:49,527 are the people who are going to make Real gospel difference in these places, 278 00:16:49,817 --> 00:16:52,337 you know Because they have done the hard work of learning the language 279 00:16:52,337 --> 00:16:55,067 learning the culture and they're going to be there longer Longer than 280 00:16:55,067 --> 00:17:00,412 a you know, and so yeah, I so I think Taking care, being a breath of fresh 281 00:17:00,412 --> 00:17:05,272 air, for career missionaries and even nationals to, you know, people who, who 282 00:17:05,272 --> 00:17:08,462 are from the place that we're going. 283 00:17:08,965 --> 00:17:11,435 and so, yeah. 284 00:17:12,835 --> 00:17:17,425 I don't think people like to feel that way, but you know, sometimes 285 00:17:17,425 --> 00:17:20,815 when I'm traveling, I'll pay a tour guide to do something. 286 00:17:20,815 --> 00:17:23,935 when I pay that tour guide, like that tour guide is my employee, so when I was 287 00:17:23,935 --> 00:17:29,050 in Egypt, I paid a tour guide to take us around to show us the pyramids and the 288 00:17:29,050 --> 00:17:31,130 Sphinx and all these other cool things, 289 00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:33,830 We pay this guy to show us around and I don't view myself as his boss or 290 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:37,270 whatever, but he's an employee, there's a transactional type relationship and 291 00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:40,500 I think sometimes we don't realize that we do the same thing to these 292 00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:43,300 career missionaries that it's just Like, Hey, we came here to help. 293 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:47,815 So, you know what, we need to get a couple of tourism days in there and, 294 00:17:47,815 --> 00:17:52,155 drive us around and negotiate our market purchases and all that stuff. 295 00:17:52,155 --> 00:17:56,135 And not that that stuff's always bad, But yeah, so I said in the article, 296 00:17:56,135 --> 00:17:59,965 instead of insisting that our short, short term trips make us look like 297 00:17:59,965 --> 00:18:03,835 heroes, what if we make the full time, the full time missionaries feel like those 298 00:18:03,835 --> 00:18:05,865 who should be admired and encouraged? 299 00:18:06,255 --> 00:18:10,365 and so it's as simple as this, like, so our friend JR, he has a habit of every 300 00:18:10,365 --> 00:18:15,965 time he goes overseas, like he'll pack as many things of like peanut butter. 301 00:18:16,465 --> 00:18:20,525 and like snacks, he'll, he'll, he'll like call ahead to like, a missionary 302 00:18:20,525 --> 00:18:24,165 friend that we're going to, and he'll be like, what are your favorite snacks? 303 00:18:24,165 --> 00:18:25,265 Like, what are your favorite things? 304 00:18:25,265 --> 00:18:29,455 You know, and then load up on those, you know, it can be so simple, you know, 305 00:18:29,455 --> 00:18:32,385 like that, but just at the end of the day, like, it doesn't make as good of 306 00:18:32,385 --> 00:18:35,475 pictures, but leaving the savior complex at home and then just turning around 307 00:18:35,475 --> 00:18:36,515 and saying, okay, well, we're going to. 308 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:39,760 We're really going to love these people and care for these people. 309 00:18:39,770 --> 00:18:45,040 Even if it means that not all of our time is spent, quote unquote, doing 310 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,810 something that's going to make us feel like we've, man, we brought so much good 311 00:18:50,810 --> 00:18:54,860 stuff to these people who are far from God, and investing in those missionaries, 312 00:18:57,349 --> 00:19:00,799 the, another thing that I think makes a good short term. 313 00:19:01,244 --> 00:19:05,614 Trip and really this is more of like a cultural thing, which is 314 00:19:05,654 --> 00:19:09,344 developing a global view of the church. 315 00:19:10,264 --> 00:19:11,934 I'm excited for you. 316 00:19:12,174 --> 00:19:16,874 I anticipate that you'll even notice things in Guatemala and Central America 317 00:19:17,394 --> 00:19:23,684 of like differences in culture, in church, in Christian culture, even in Central 318 00:19:23,684 --> 00:19:28,404 America, that Will broaden your view of like, Oh, I didn't even realize it. 319 00:19:28,404 --> 00:19:33,144 But some of the things that I take as this is just what Christians do. 320 00:19:33,854 --> 00:19:35,714 It's actually what American Christians do. 321 00:19:36,574 --> 00:19:38,714 And it's not exclusive. 322 00:19:38,724 --> 00:19:40,984 Like it's, it's not like this is what Christianity is. 323 00:19:41,004 --> 00:19:42,644 Oh, this is American Christianity. 324 00:19:42,964 --> 00:19:45,314 And not that that's a bad thing automatically, but short term trips 325 00:19:45,314 --> 00:19:48,284 can be an amazing opportunity for American Christians to learn that 326 00:19:48,284 --> 00:19:51,184 the church is bigger than we thought. 327 00:19:51,654 --> 00:19:53,984 I remember traveling in Asia for the first time. 328 00:19:54,484 --> 00:19:58,344 And realizing that the term southern hospitality that we use a lot, you know, 329 00:19:58,864 --> 00:20:03,184 that like, what we think is hospitality is, is not really that hospitable at all. 330 00:20:03,494 --> 00:20:07,734 and you'll see the first time, like you come to Asia that like, Not just the 331 00:20:07,734 --> 00:20:13,864 Christians, but people there in general extends such wholehearted hospitality and 332 00:20:13,864 --> 00:20:17,534 warmth to, to people that they don't know. 333 00:20:17,984 --> 00:20:22,254 And it made me realize I was like, Oh, like we think we're being hospitable 334 00:20:22,444 --> 00:20:25,284 in the States, but we're actually not. 335 00:20:25,954 --> 00:20:28,614 And I don't think I would have learned that had I not traveled. 336 00:20:29,214 --> 00:20:33,284 Extensively to see those things, you You've grown up in the church, 337 00:20:33,444 --> 00:20:38,954 in the States, do you feel like we ever have sort of like a. 338 00:20:39,454 --> 00:20:44,044 Cloistered or like closed off view of what it means to be a Christian. 339 00:20:44,514 --> 00:20:47,264 You know, that can be broadened by, travel in general. 340 00:20:48,199 --> 00:20:48,999 Mike: absolutely. 341 00:20:49,069 --> 00:20:52,699 I think, we don't even think that somebody from a different denomination 342 00:20:52,699 --> 00:20:57,319 is a Christian sometimes, so definitely, we can have a narrow view, I think 343 00:20:57,739 --> 00:21:02,644 Americans in general can have a narrow view of, Humanity and what culture 344 00:21:02,644 --> 00:21:07,544 is really, but, yeah, Christians, especially, there's a spectrum of that, 345 00:21:07,564 --> 00:21:11,804 not everybody is that hardcore in their specific denomination and all those 346 00:21:11,874 --> 00:21:15,014 little differences, but absolutely. 347 00:21:15,014 --> 00:21:18,764 I think traveling, engaging, seeing something that's different than what 348 00:21:18,764 --> 00:21:21,454 you, Are used to or we're expecting. 349 00:21:21,494 --> 00:21:26,401 Is one of the, maybe the only really effective way to, to change 350 00:21:26,401 --> 00:21:31,611 your worldview without seeking it out, I guess if in some sense, 351 00:21:31,661 --> 00:21:31,971 Jeremy: Yeah. 352 00:21:31,981 --> 00:21:36,121 I think some of it happens through kind of osmosis because, you know, like 353 00:21:36,231 --> 00:21:40,831 when I started traveling, you know, it was four missions, but really quick, I 354 00:21:40,831 --> 00:21:44,771 learned it was just like, Oh, I think I'm going to learn more in some of this. 355 00:21:44,811 --> 00:21:47,701 And I'm the person who's like speaking at this event or whatever, because the 356 00:21:47,701 --> 00:21:50,546 other thing too is like, And I don't know if it's because the American church has 357 00:21:50,546 --> 00:21:54,716 presented itself as sort of the savior figure, or if it's just that people 358 00:21:54,716 --> 00:21:58,406 assume this of us, because, you know, we have been such a leader on the global 359 00:21:58,406 --> 00:22:03,196 stage for a long time, is that, like, pretty much everywhere I go, you know, 360 00:22:03,196 --> 00:22:07,166 I experienced some sense of like, Oh, man, like, they're really excited that 361 00:22:07,166 --> 00:22:12,086 I'm here, you know, and I'm oftentimes, You know, a featured speaker at some 362 00:22:12,136 --> 00:22:16,366 conference that international or whatever, and it can make you feel really good. 363 00:22:16,766 --> 00:22:21,426 But when you begin to realize like how much more you're learning, then you 364 00:22:21,426 --> 00:22:24,946 experience a kind of a humility from that, which is like, Oh, actually, I 365 00:22:24,946 --> 00:22:27,576 don't really think I need to be the person who's being celebrated here. 366 00:22:28,076 --> 00:22:29,476 Because I kind of feel like a child. 367 00:22:29,676 --> 00:22:33,766 And like I mentioned, the hospitality of Asia, but Probably one of the biggest 368 00:22:33,776 --> 00:22:38,476 impacts I had was like, you know, we think we're bold in our witness here 369 00:22:38,476 --> 00:22:42,136 in the States, but when you travel in a place like the Middle East and you 370 00:22:42,136 --> 00:22:46,666 see how bold brothers and sisters in that part of the world are, despite 371 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:51,406 the fact of, constant threat of harm or persecution is, it makes you more bold 372 00:22:51,406 --> 00:22:53,096 in your witness back home, you know? 373 00:22:53,761 --> 00:22:59,631 that's why we've even started, the engaged network, which is really beginning to 374 00:22:59,631 --> 00:23:04,341 try and do stateside missions the way that we do international missions, 375 00:23:04,341 --> 00:23:05,981 which is very people group oriented. 376 00:23:06,906 --> 00:23:12,386 trying to reach, particular communities and, religious groups with the gospel. 377 00:23:12,746 --> 00:23:18,556 what we have found is that oftentimes people go overseas or even stateside, 378 00:23:18,556 --> 00:23:22,206 they'll go on a trip and they get really fired up to share the gospel. 379 00:23:22,766 --> 00:23:26,016 But then when they come home, it's like their church isn't ready to receive them. 380 00:23:26,426 --> 00:23:30,876 there's nothing for them to, to Sort of emulate what they did overseas. 381 00:23:31,326 --> 00:23:34,806 because yeah, when you go to a place like the Middle East or Asia, and you see 382 00:23:34,806 --> 00:23:38,536 how passionate Christians are there for sharing the gospel, despite the lack of 383 00:23:38,536 --> 00:23:42,806 freedom, when you come home, you should be motivated to share the gospel even 384 00:23:43,633 --> 00:23:48,786 Mike: and that seems to be another benefit of, some of the benefits of going are 385 00:23:49,016 --> 00:23:52,896 because hopefully you can have an impact on the people there, but then taking 386 00:23:52,896 --> 00:23:56,346 everything that you've learned back to your church back at home and trying to 387 00:23:56,886 --> 00:24:00,916 implement it the way you're talking about with local missions, but then also just 388 00:24:00,916 --> 00:24:04,006 sharing, I think, with your church body. 389 00:24:04,911 --> 00:24:09,651 Some of those eye opening moments of, of culture and what hospitality looks 390 00:24:09,651 --> 00:24:15,381 like and Christian, the, what you've understood to be Christianity is actually 391 00:24:15,381 --> 00:24:19,401 American Christianity and, you know, just everything that you're learning, 392 00:24:19,411 --> 00:24:22,881 bringing that back and, and teaching others at home and sharing it with people 393 00:24:22,896 --> 00:24:23,216 Jeremy: Yeah. 394 00:24:23,886 --> 00:24:25,286 good short term trips. 395 00:24:25,286 --> 00:24:28,216 Good short term endeavors should be about sharpening and 396 00:24:28,216 --> 00:24:29,776 training for ministry at home. 397 00:24:30,276 --> 00:24:32,366 Short term trips should have an event. 398 00:24:32,616 --> 00:24:36,396 Like they shouldn't just be about caring for these career missionaries. 399 00:24:36,396 --> 00:24:38,916 They shouldn't just be about developing a global view. 400 00:24:39,376 --> 00:24:43,286 Those should be a focus, but there should be an evangelistic aspect to them. 401 00:24:44,001 --> 00:24:47,401 understand that, like, ultimately your evangelism as an outsider 402 00:24:47,741 --> 00:24:50,941 is almost never going to be as effective as an insiders would be. 403 00:24:51,111 --> 00:24:53,611 Your evangelism is most effective at home. 404 00:24:54,389 --> 00:24:57,671 It's most effective in the culture where you're from. 405 00:24:57,856 --> 00:25:01,606 In the language that you speak in the place where you're not an outsider. 406 00:25:01,876 --> 00:25:05,376 So these evangelistic short term trips should be done in concert with 407 00:25:05,376 --> 00:25:09,056 longstanding mission partners who can ensure that we're working effectively, 408 00:25:09,056 --> 00:25:11,346 that we're not doing more harm than good. 409 00:25:11,706 --> 00:25:16,126 The American church should be doing more prioritizing of the mission 410 00:25:16,126 --> 00:25:18,076 field at home in the States. 411 00:25:18,576 --> 00:25:21,996 Not because it's more important, but because we have neglected it for a 412 00:25:21,996 --> 00:25:26,986 really long time and I say in the article that the United States is much less 413 00:25:26,986 --> 00:25:30,946 reached than we think and as far as I can see the United States is one of the 414 00:25:30,946 --> 00:25:36,496 few or possibly only Churches on the planet that spend most of our time and 415 00:25:36,496 --> 00:25:42,016 money in missions outside of our home context Most national churches, if you 416 00:25:42,016 --> 00:25:46,126 want to look at it that way, are not spending most of their time and money 417 00:25:46,506 --> 00:25:49,636 sending to other countries, but we are. 418 00:25:50,131 --> 00:25:56,391 And what that's done is it's caused us to dramatically miss the fact that the 419 00:25:56,391 --> 00:26:01,191 United States is becoming more and more post Christian, that younger generations 420 00:26:01,191 --> 00:26:03,361 are leaving the church in droves. 421 00:26:03,861 --> 00:26:07,891 We take missions trips and think that we're bringing something to these other 422 00:26:07,891 --> 00:26:11,631 cultures that they don't have when statistically, many of these places that 423 00:26:11,631 --> 00:26:16,051 we're sending to have larger percentages of devout Christians than we do. 424 00:26:16,421 --> 00:26:20,531 And so we need to actually start sending people overseas for a week so 425 00:26:20,531 --> 00:26:25,451 that they can be sharpened and trained to come home and plug into something 426 00:26:25,451 --> 00:26:30,061 like the engaged network to reach their context here in the States. 427 00:26:30,111 --> 00:26:32,701 I think if we started viewing short term trips like that. 428 00:26:32,786 --> 00:26:37,486 Of like, Hey, we go to South Asia to teach and train people on how to reach 429 00:26:37,486 --> 00:26:41,946 South Asians, and then we come home and try and reach South Asians here. 430 00:26:42,366 --> 00:26:46,156 your church can do the same thing, and instead what we usually 431 00:26:46,156 --> 00:26:48,906 see happen is, team comes home. 432 00:26:49,406 --> 00:26:50,316 They stand up on stage. 433 00:26:50,316 --> 00:26:52,856 They talk about how great the week was and they talk about how 434 00:26:52,856 --> 00:26:54,936 fired up they are for the gospel. 435 00:26:55,436 --> 00:26:57,216 But that team might not share the gospel. 436 00:26:57,951 --> 00:26:59,821 Again, until next year's trip. 437 00:27:00,321 --> 00:27:04,251 I think we'd all be embarrassed to say how often that's the experience we have. 438 00:27:04,621 --> 00:27:08,161 And part of it is the church doesn't have anything that does missions 439 00:27:08,171 --> 00:27:09,951 the same way that we do overseas. 440 00:27:10,471 --> 00:27:13,731 which once again, that's why the engaged network I think is so important, but 441 00:27:13,731 --> 00:27:18,621 then also while we're overseas in these contexts where we're, passionate about 442 00:27:18,621 --> 00:27:22,121 learning how to share the gospel, how to be a bold witness in our faith. 443 00:27:22,671 --> 00:27:27,291 we need to be honest and say, Hey, we are actually going to try and take as much 444 00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:32,061 from this trip as we can in the form of training and equipping because the real 445 00:27:32,061 --> 00:27:33,836 trip starts when we land back at home. 446 00:27:34,571 --> 00:27:38,771 And I think if we did that and we did all of those things, leave the savior 447 00:27:38,771 --> 00:27:44,066 complex at home, care for career missionaries, Look around and develop 448 00:27:44,066 --> 00:27:48,036 a global understanding of what it means to be a Christian and then really try 449 00:27:48,046 --> 00:27:52,436 and ring as much out of that trip in the form of training and equipping and 450 00:27:52,436 --> 00:27:57,876 building up of that team to come home and Really be mobilized for the sake 451 00:27:57,876 --> 00:28:01,626 of the gospel that I think then the answer is short term trips are good 452 00:28:01,642 --> 00:28:06,095 Mike: Yeah, so it seems to be, it seems to me that the biggest difference 453 00:28:06,115 --> 00:28:09,965 between a bad short term missions trip and a good one is the mindset 454 00:28:09,965 --> 00:28:11,465 and the goals of the people who are 455 00:28:11,630 --> 00:28:11,770 Jeremy: going on 456 00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:12,080 the trip. 457 00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:16,720 I think if your why, like, so missions pastor, youth pastor, listen to this, 458 00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:21,830 you know, whoever, if your why for this trip is that we do it every 459 00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:24,205 year and everybody really enjoys it. 460 00:28:24,705 --> 00:28:29,105 And we need to go and build a couple of buildings and get pictures of us building 461 00:28:29,105 --> 00:28:34,175 a building get pictures of me with, you know, somebody who looks different than 462 00:28:34,175 --> 00:28:39,785 me so I can put it on Instagram and we're going to come home and, you know, we're 463 00:28:39,785 --> 00:28:42,635 going to go up on stage and everybody's going to celebrate us like we're heroes. 464 00:28:43,135 --> 00:28:44,319 take that trip. 465 00:28:45,299 --> 00:28:48,599 Don't, don't take that trip, cancel it, and either, and either raise the 466 00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:54,139 money and send it to people who, who are already there, who are doing the work of 467 00:28:54,439 --> 00:28:57,039 the ministry there, or just don't do it. 468 00:28:57,049 --> 00:29:00,549 Stay home, you know, because honestly, sometimes those 469 00:29:00,549 --> 00:29:01,869 things do more harm than good. 470 00:29:02,399 --> 00:29:06,839 and they really lend themselves to, churches in other contexts, having a 471 00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:09,039 dependency on the church in the States. 472 00:29:09,539 --> 00:29:13,729 what I've begun to see is honestly, I think oftentimes the global church is 473 00:29:13,729 --> 00:29:18,689 looking at the church in America right now as if we're tone deaf, because we don't 474 00:29:18,719 --> 00:29:22,564 understand that there's a fire at home. 475 00:29:23,064 --> 00:29:26,834 Why are you sending your most passionate believers everywhere else? 476 00:29:27,694 --> 00:29:32,204 Why are you spending all of your money on churches outside of your context 477 00:29:32,274 --> 00:29:33,714 when the church is dying at home? 478 00:29:34,124 --> 00:29:35,714 And so, yeah, I think your mindset. 479 00:29:36,404 --> 00:29:40,644 And then the goals of the trip, the why of the trip is it needs to like 480 00:29:40,664 --> 00:29:44,444 every year, the missions pastor, the youth pastor, whoever it is, needs to 481 00:29:44,444 --> 00:29:46,764 sit down and reevaluate those things. 482 00:29:46,824 --> 00:29:49,334 and then I personally, I mean, I've said I'm biased, you know, because 483 00:29:49,594 --> 00:29:52,894 like we are a tap, but, I think every church needs to have something like 484 00:29:52,894 --> 00:29:54,294 the engaged network to come home to. 485 00:29:54,404 --> 00:29:57,304 Like when you send those people, they're going to come back passionate. 486 00:29:57,304 --> 00:30:01,434 They're going to come back ready to get after it and in sharing their faith 487 00:30:01,464 --> 00:30:03,464 back home, that should be the goal. 488 00:30:03,884 --> 00:30:08,004 And if you don't have a way for them to do that, then it's going to fizzle out. 489 00:30:08,124 --> 00:30:09,704 And then next year, the whole thing's going to happen 490 00:30:10,305 --> 00:30:11,552 Mike: to fizzle out. 491 00:30:11,552 --> 00:30:15,482 Next year the whole thing is going to happen. 492 00:30:15,482 --> 00:30:18,285 So the Engage Network, we 493 00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:18,780 Jeremy: want to. 494 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,740 So the engage network, we started this year in 2024. 495 00:30:23,175 --> 00:30:29,645 And what it is, is it's, churches partnering with ATAP, to, engage, the 496 00:30:29,645 --> 00:30:32,735 darkest places and least reached people in their city and region with the gospel. 497 00:30:33,205 --> 00:30:35,405 And so the way that we do that is, churches. 498 00:30:35,995 --> 00:30:38,575 Reach out to us and we go through a process of just evaluating, making 499 00:30:38,575 --> 00:30:42,435 sure that we're like-minded, and then we enter into kind of a long-term 500 00:30:42,435 --> 00:30:46,835 partnership with that church, where Atap provides in-person and online 501 00:30:46,835 --> 00:30:52,665 training in, evangelism, discipleship, leadership, world religions and worldview. 502 00:30:53,475 --> 00:30:56,145 as well as just kind of ongoing coaching for leaders. 503 00:30:56,235 --> 00:30:57,920 And really what it is, is we wanna see. 504 00:30:58,420 --> 00:31:01,750 In the context of that church mission teams that really 505 00:31:01,750 --> 00:31:03,310 resemble international teams. 506 00:31:03,310 --> 00:31:07,810 Like, you know, if you're in, if you're in the Northeast of the United States 507 00:31:07,850 --> 00:31:11,050 in a place like Trenton, New Jersey, for instance, which is a place that I'm 508 00:31:11,050 --> 00:31:15,170 really praying about us beginning to see a network church raise up is that's a 509 00:31:15,170 --> 00:31:17,940 place where it's full of South Asians. 510 00:31:18,190 --> 00:31:24,220 So we want to raise up in churches in Trenton, New Jersey, teams of believers 511 00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:29,530 who are missionaries to the South Asian And, other communities in that area. 512 00:31:30,010 --> 00:31:33,840 and so it's a way to heavily invest in these mission team leaders that raise up. 513 00:31:34,290 --> 00:31:38,710 And then it's a strategy and, system that when you have a 514 00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:40,240 team go overseas and come back. 515 00:31:41,225 --> 00:31:45,795 When they come to you, pastor, and say, Hey, I really want to do missions here. 516 00:31:45,795 --> 00:31:47,145 The way that we were doing it over there. 517 00:31:47,785 --> 00:31:49,885 is it's a way to be able to say, well, Hey, we're doing that. 518 00:31:50,065 --> 00:31:52,185 Like get join one of these teams. 519 00:31:52,425 --> 00:31:54,565 And so in our church, you know, we have a team. 520 00:31:55,525 --> 00:31:58,655 For, we're kind of in Redneckville in here in Western North Carolina. 521 00:31:58,655 --> 00:32:01,775 So we have a team that's really just geared towards nominal Christians, 522 00:32:02,225 --> 00:32:03,575 and de churched Christians. 523 00:32:03,905 --> 00:32:07,305 And so that team is engaging people who kind of are like, yeah, I walked an 524 00:32:07,305 --> 00:32:10,225 altar when I was seven years old, but I haven't been following after Christ. 525 00:32:10,225 --> 00:32:14,385 It's like, so there's missionaries on that team who really have a heart 526 00:32:14,385 --> 00:32:17,455 for that and are kind of trained for those kinds of conversations. 527 00:32:17,455 --> 00:32:20,275 We have a team geared towards the South Asian community. 528 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,440 A team geared towards spiritual agnostics and neo pagans, a team geared 529 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,660 towards Latter day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses, a team geared towards the 530 00:32:27,660 --> 00:32:30,900 Spanish speaking community, which is largely nominal and de churched. 531 00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:34,180 And then we have a team geared towards the area directly around our 532 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:35,640 church, the shadow of the steeple. 533 00:32:36,335 --> 00:32:39,485 And so we're trying to raise that up in churches all over the country There is a 534 00:32:39,485 --> 00:32:45,565 financial partnership aspect to that That really just helps us cover the, the, the, 535 00:32:45,565 --> 00:32:47,195 cost of training and things like that. 536 00:32:47,215 --> 00:32:49,805 And, and yeah, so, but no, that's, that's the thing I'm most excited 537 00:32:49,815 --> 00:32:52,585 about in the context of ATAP this year and moving forward as well. 538 00:32:53,325 --> 00:32:56,545 and it's because of conversations like this, cause I've gone on, you know, a ton 539 00:32:56,545 --> 00:33:01,545 of mission strips and I don't know the percentage, but a number of them, probably 540 00:33:01,595 --> 00:33:03,215 I might've been better staying at home. 541 00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:06,130 Yeah, you know, and I'm not, I don't really want to be about that. 542 00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:08,520 You know, we want to be effective everywhere we go, but we have 543 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,070 to be effective at home long before we go anywhere else. 544 00:33:11,410 --> 00:33:12,525 And so that's what we're, that's what we're 545 00:33:13,829 --> 00:33:14,829 Take good short term trips. 546 00:33:15,059 --> 00:33:19,019 Be willing to say that, Hey, this one's not worth our time and money and we'd 547 00:33:19,019 --> 00:33:20,309 be better off doing something else. 548 00:33:20,509 --> 00:33:21,639 That doesn't mean fold up shop. 549 00:33:21,649 --> 00:33:23,379 That doesn't mean stop going international. 550 00:33:23,379 --> 00:33:24,599 It just means do it well. 551 00:33:24,999 --> 00:33:27,829 And if you're doing that, then man, keep going, you know, but 552 00:33:27,829 --> 00:33:29,964 then also have something for people to plug into when they get home.