1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,780 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn about preparing your hardware startup for complex manufacturing 2 00:00:04,780 --> 00:00:13,180 Kevin Mako: from a 17-year manufacturing engineering expert. This is the Product Startup Podcast, a show to learn from top leaders in hardware product 3 00:00:13,180 --> 00:00:18,700 Kevin Mako: development, prototyping, manufacturing, product selling, and everything in between. Hosted by Kevin Mako, 4 00:00:18,820 --> 00:00:24,700 Kevin Mako: the leading expert on product development for hardware startups. Welcome back, everyone. I'm very excited to 5 00:00:24,700 --> 00:00:29,980 Kevin Mako: introduce Nikhil Joshi to the show. Nikhil is the founder of SNic Solutions. The company he has run for 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,540 Kevin Mako: 17 years helping scale product manufacturing operations. He has worked with almost 150 factories 7 00:00:35,540 --> 00:00:39,800 Kevin Mako: across 12 countries. Today, Nikhil will show valuable knowledge for inventors, startups and small 8 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:45,100 Kevin Mako: manufacturers on how manufacturing has changed, the opportunities that exist, and how to ensure 9 00:00:45,100 --> 00:00:49,880 Kevin Mako: you properly plan for complex manufacturing as a hardware startup. Now, on to the episode. 10 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,900 Kevin Mako: This show is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing end-to-end consumer 11 00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:01,060 Kevin Mako: product development services tailored specifically to hardware startups, small 12 00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:07,400 Kevin Mako: manufacturers and inventors. Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. 13 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,327 Kevin Mako: Now on to the episode. Hi, Nikhil, welcome to the show. 14 00:01:11,327 --> 00:01:13,360 Nikhil Joshi: Hey, thanks, Kevin, for having me. 15 00:01:13,460 --> 00:01:17,460 Kevin Mako: Well, we're excited today to talk to you about manufacturing. Now, as a hardware startup, 16 00:01:17,860 --> 00:01:22,960 Kevin Mako: whether you're at the very early phases of ideation or further along into design for manufacturing 17 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:28,720 Kevin Mako: or even getting into manufacturing, at the end of the day, you've got a sell product. And in order 18 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,100 Kevin Mako: to sell product, you've got a manufacturer product to sell. 19 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,740 Kevin Mako: I'm looking forward to having you on the show today to talk about some of the best practices 20 00:01:35,740 --> 00:01:41,100 Kevin Mako: that hardware startups can think about and can plan ahead for as they migrate from design 21 00:01:41,100 --> 00:01:46,020 Kevin Mako: through to manufacturing and then from manufacturing to scale. So before we jump into all these good 22 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:50,480 Kevin Mako: things in and around the manufacturing question, just give us a bit of a background, how you became 23 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:56,480 Nikhil Joshi: the success story that you are today. I started off as an industrial engineer on the shop floor 24 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,900 Nikhil Joshi: in factories when I started the company. I was just 22 then. And I worked my 25 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:09,080 Nikhil Joshi: way up doing projects in the manufacturing plants and factories. And as I went further, 26 00:02:09,180 --> 00:02:15,720 Nikhil Joshi: I could see that a lot of technology could be implemented in manufacturing plants. And operations 27 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:22,580 Nikhil Joshi: was my forte. So I kind of pivoted from being an industrial engineer more to starting to solve 28 00:02:22,580 --> 00:02:28,960 Nikhil Joshi: information efficiency problems in manufacturing as to how information could pass faster 29 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,420 Nikhil Joshi: between people and how overall manufacturing efficiency could be improved in factories. 30 00:02:35,140 --> 00:02:41,500 Nikhil Joshi: And that's what we do. We implement manufacturing software in the operation space. And I've pretty 31 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:47,700 Nikhil Joshi: much been doing that for the last 17 years now. Wow, 17 years and worked with hundreds of factories, 32 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,880 Kevin Mako: seeing it from the shop floor all the way up to these large systems that manage 33 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,700 Kevin Mako: information between all these key stakeholders at massive manufacturing plants and everything in 34 00:02:56,700 --> 00:02:58,940 Kevin Mako: between. So what better person today that's talking? 35 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,740 Kevin Mako: about some of those manufacturing tips and tricks that you've seen, especially for 36 00:03:02,740 --> 00:03:08,020 Kevin Mako: hardware startups, as they're getting into the world of manufacturing. So let's start big picture. 37 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,560 Kevin Mako: Just give us a high level of what it means in terms of manufacturing operations or 38 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,870 Nikhil Joshi: manufacturing efficiency, et cetera. Sure. Well, we had to start that manufacturing is no more 39 00:03:19,870 --> 00:03:26,630 Nikhil Joshi: the way it was 30 years ago or even 10 years ago, right? And the biggest difference is the 40 00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:32,250 Nikhil Joshi: bath size. If you went 30 years before the jacket that you're wearing, somebody would 41 00:03:32,250 --> 00:03:38,950 Nikhil Joshi: be making a million of those same color, no difference. But fast forward to today, there are 42 00:03:38,950 --> 00:03:44,950 Nikhil Joshi: factories who just want to make five of them or maybe one of them. The whole market is going 43 00:03:44,950 --> 00:03:51,530 Nikhil Joshi: more to that people want very custom tailored products which are meant for them. There's 44 00:03:51,530 --> 00:03:56,390 Nikhil Joshi: personalization. And that kind of creates a very big manufacturing problem 45 00:03:56,390 --> 00:04:01,510 Nikhil Joshi: on the operation side, right? You are no more producing or doing mass manufacturing, 46 00:04:01,810 --> 00:04:07,970 Nikhil Joshi: like how we had the car plants of the day many years ago producing the same kind of cars. You're pretty 47 00:04:07,970 --> 00:04:15,490 Nikhil Joshi: much more in a zone where you're trying to do less, but at the same time, you are also trying to be 48 00:04:15,490 --> 00:04:22,270 Nikhil Joshi: efficient. And the third aspect is that you're no more making one product, right? You might still 49 00:04:22,270 --> 00:04:26,370 Nikhil Joshi: be making a car, but there are so many variations of cars. 50 00:04:26,390 --> 00:04:32,210 Nikhil Joshi: you're making or you might be making a hardware product, but you're making so many variations 51 00:04:32,210 --> 00:04:36,810 Nikhil Joshi: of it that when it goes to the factory, it's no more that you're making five products, 52 00:04:36,870 --> 00:04:42,470 Nikhil Joshi: you're making 5,000 products. And that creates an additional complexity on the shop floor. 53 00:04:42,630 --> 00:04:47,290 Nikhil Joshi: That, hey, how do I manage so many things at the same time be profitable? So that's like the big 54 00:04:47,290 --> 00:04:51,290 Nikhil Joshi: picture, Kevin, as if I was explaining to you, like, you know, as a layman. 55 00:04:51,810 --> 00:04:55,730 Kevin Mako: Well, it's really interesting that you brought that up, and I like how you opened, how manufacturing 56 00:04:55,730 --> 00:05:00,850 Kevin Mako: really changed. I'm sure a lot of listeners are hearing the opportunity in that. So it's kind of 57 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:06,730 Kevin Mako: the gift and the curse. On one hand, yes, with the customization and the desire of the market, 58 00:05:06,790 --> 00:05:11,930 Kevin Mako: essentially end users, are requiring products that more suit them specifically. Whatever that 59 00:05:11,930 --> 00:05:16,330 Kevin Mako: opportunity is or that pain point is, they want it solved directly. They don't want something 60 00:05:16,330 --> 00:05:21,410 Kevin Mako: somewhat solving it. They want it solving it right on the button. Now, on the flip side, that creates 61 00:05:21,410 --> 00:05:25,410 Kevin Mako: complexities and manufacturing, but absolutely, especially for hardware startups out there, 62 00:05:25,730 --> 00:05:28,970 Kevin Mako: we talk a lot about it on the show, especially as an early stage company, 63 00:05:29,210 --> 00:05:33,590 Kevin Mako: typically lower funding than the big companies, less resources, less information, 64 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:38,970 Kevin Mako: etc. It's amazing to go after a very tight niche. So something which is under 65 00:05:38,970 --> 00:05:44,170 Kevin Mako: serviced maybe by the big competitors in the market. And you focus on that and do a really good job 66 00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:48,850 Kevin Mako: and it may have less volume than the competitors, but you're hitting a specific customer base 67 00:05:48,850 --> 00:05:53,950 Kevin Mako: that needs exactly what you want. And you can do that very well as a startup because you're 68 00:05:53,950 --> 00:05:55,350 Kevin Mako: focusing on one version of the product. 69 00:05:55,350 --> 00:05:59,910 Kevin Mako: Now, as you get into the market and start to scale, you start to find other opportunities, 70 00:06:00,190 --> 00:06:04,810 Kevin Mako: other segmentation, all variety of different opportunities for both your product and the product 71 00:06:04,810 --> 00:06:10,070 Kevin Mako: business, the product business is brand, that you can scale and grow. Now, with that comes challenges 72 00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:14,670 Kevin Mako: in manufacturing. So the next question is, we've talked a lot about the show, about the opportunity 73 00:06:14,670 --> 00:06:19,350 Kevin Mako: of being very specific and really nailing it to the customers. But I want to talk with you 74 00:06:19,350 --> 00:06:23,790 Kevin Mako: today about the other side, which is, well, how do you actually produce that? How do you plan to manufacture 75 00:06:23,790 --> 00:06:29,130 Kevin Mako: that. How do you do that smart? So that you're not trying to play catch-up to your demand, 76 00:06:29,290 --> 00:06:35,200 Nikhil Joshi: you're thinking about this ahead of those potential challenges. Yeah. So customization and 77 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:41,960 Nikhil Joshi: personalization should not be confused with, hey, you know, you're going to produce less and thereby, 78 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:48,540 Nikhil Joshi: you know, the price of the product is going to be very high. That's not a scalable structure. And the amount 79 00:06:48,540 --> 00:06:53,960 Nikhil Joshi: of manufacturing operations, automation that you would put in, the cost benefit is not going to work. 80 00:06:53,980 --> 00:07:00,020 Nikhil Joshi: The challenge most manufacturers that we are seeing today are having is, I want to give 81 00:07:00,020 --> 00:07:06,340 Nikhil Joshi: personalization and customization, but at the same time, I also want to scale. So the third element of 82 00:07:06,340 --> 00:07:12,780 Nikhil Joshi: business model as to what is the kind of business model that you adopt also comes into picture. So 83 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:18,780 Nikhil Joshi: you see many manufacturing companies in the past have been more like B2B. They would supply to 84 00:07:18,780 --> 00:07:23,960 Nikhil Joshi: another large manufacturer to another business. But a lot of manufacturers are realizing 85 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,460 Nikhil Joshi: that, hey, my customer is actually the end consumer. Think of a bicycle, right? Earlier, 86 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:36,880 Nikhil Joshi: a bicycle manufacturer would go and their customer was actually a franchise owner. But today, 87 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:43,860 Nikhil Joshi: the same bicycle manufacturer wants to talk directly to the guy who is buying the bike, who's riding 88 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:48,461 Nikhil Joshi: the bike, and they want to understand from them that, hey, what do you need? 89 00:07:48,461 --> 00:07:50,640 Kevin Mako: Now, this aspect brings the need for 90 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,940 Nikhil Joshi: business model transformation, but the impact that is this. 91 00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:00,080 Nikhil Joshi: has on the factory operations is that you need to be more agile, you need to be more flexible, 92 00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:07,240 Nikhil Joshi: and you need to give what the end customer wants when he wants, but also at the right price. So 93 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:13,480 Nikhil Joshi: suddenly you have this massive explosion of complexity that now you're throwing at manufacturing operations 94 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:20,540 Nikhil Joshi: and it's no more basically a simpler problem to solve like it used to be. Yeah, absolutely. That's 95 00:08:20,540 --> 00:08:24,760 Kevin Mako: why it's key as well, especially as a hardware startup, to really consider, be careful 96 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,300 Kevin Mako: with feature creep or too much customization or trying to make too many products too quick for too many 97 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:34,220 Kevin Mako: people. So the inverse side is, be careful with your growth, but also sees the opportunity 98 00:08:34,220 --> 00:08:38,940 Kevin Mako: when it comes, have a healthy balance between those two aspects. And if you are going to increase 99 00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:43,880 Kevin Mako: complexity, make sure you're planning ahead. And let's jump into what that looks like, because I know 100 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:50,260 Kevin Mako: you're a big advocate of using software and technology in order to really improve the ability to be 101 00:08:50,260 --> 00:08:54,740 Kevin Mako: complicated and to hit more types of customers while also allowing you to scale. 102 00:08:55,420 --> 00:09:02,040 Nikhil Joshi: So high level, what is the manufacturer looking to change, right? Like, in order to serve their customers 103 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:08,320 Nikhil Joshi: better. And if you think of your listeners, whether they are people who are startups who are building 104 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:14,140 Nikhil Joshi: basically hardware products, et cetera, essentially on the manufacturing side, you want the manufacturing 105 00:09:14,140 --> 00:09:20,140 Nikhil Joshi: operations to ensure that you are not reducing your speed. So what you're looking for is very 106 00:09:20,140 --> 00:09:25,080 Nikhil Joshi: fast and you're looking for agility, but at the same time you're also looking for efficiency. 107 00:09:25,620 --> 00:09:30,800 Nikhil Joshi: So it's a combination of speed agility and efficiency that you're looking for. And that's what 108 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:36,480 Nikhil Joshi: manufacturing operations today is all about where every manufacturing shop floor or people who are 109 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,760 Nikhil Joshi: thinking of also getting into manufacturing or who are at a design stage and saying that we are going 110 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:47,420 Nikhil Joshi: to eventually manufacture our products, they are saying that, well, how do I get that agility, 111 00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:53,360 Nikhil Joshi: flexibility, speed and efficiency. And those who don't know automatically would leave that 112 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,740 Nikhil Joshi: to, let's say, a contract manufacturer that I don't care how you run the operations, but I need these 113 00:09:58,740 --> 00:10:06,000 Nikhil Joshi: many pieces on this day at this time. So there is that aspect of larger companies where if your 114 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,940 Nikhil Joshi: strength is, let's say, design and engineering, you're pretty much going to outsource speed, 115 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:17,260 Nikhil Joshi: agility and flexibility. And as you go in and become more matured, you can say, okay, you know, 116 00:10:17,420 --> 00:10:24,540 Nikhil Joshi: I bring that. But the biggest advantage companies are having today are those who are able to do 117 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:32,540 Nikhil Joshi: design, engineering, operations, and customer service all together and break those silos and then 118 00:10:32,540 --> 00:10:38,060 Nikhil Joshi: directly work with the customer and asking that, hey, what do you want? And then kind of being agile, 119 00:10:38,060 --> 00:10:45,920 Nikhil Joshi: fast, as well as efficient across all these aspects and just not manufacturing operations. So it's a big 120 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,260 Nikhil Joshi: picture agility, but then you also basically translate it down whether it is to design, 121 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,600 Nikhil Joshi: whether it's to operations, whether it's to engineering, any part of your function. I love how you put 122 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,980 Kevin Mako: that together because you're really thinking about that full cycle feedback loop. And from a design 123 00:11:00,980 --> 00:11:05,940 Kevin Mako: firm's perspective, that's amazing because as a hardware company scales, they start to get really 124 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:10,160 Kevin Mako: important information, especially from their first few products off the line in the market with real 125 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,040 Kevin Mako: customers that have paid for them. Now you get some really interesting information. You start to 126 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,140 Kevin Mako: get what they don't like. You start to get what they love. And you start to get what they 127 00:11:19,140 --> 00:11:24,600 Kevin Mako: think could be added or improved or removed from the product in order to service maybe another 128 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,600 Kevin Mako: group of people or maybe to grow or whatever else. That feedback, you can start incorporating 129 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,160 Kevin Mako: back into the design process. And if as you mentioned, you've got really good seamless integration 130 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:40,300 Kevin Mako: between your customers all the way through to your production house, the more seamless that information 131 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:44,500 Kevin Mako: can be. And the more you're actually thinking about it consciously as the founder, the better 132 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:47,700 Kevin Mako: that flow of information is going to be. And the more you're going to be likely to really 133 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:53,440 Kevin Mako: take that feedback and incorporate it the right way into a good quality product. And as you mentioned, 134 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,520 Kevin Mako: if you build in those efficiencies as well, you're going to have a great product that's also 135 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:03,200 Kevin Mako: built at a fair price. And that can really help, especially at the scale level of a company going 136 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,000 Kevin Mako: from a one skew product, their first version of the product, to figure out how they're going 137 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,760 Kevin Mako: to expand. Maybe it's a higher quality version. Maybe it's accessories. Maybe it's just 138 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,480 Kevin Mako: different versions for different geographies or markets. But there will be an expansion 139 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:19,140 Kevin Mako: profile. And the more customers that you get, the more you're going to start learning about what 140 00:12:19,140 --> 00:12:25,340 Kevin Mako: those potential expansion opportunities might be. Absolutely. So talk a bit about how the actual 141 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:30,920 Kevin Mako: technology and how information technology is best woven between everywhere from design through 142 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:38,820 Nikhil Joshi: to your end customer. Yeah. So that's where traditionally everybody, including us not so many years 143 00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:44,700 Nikhil Joshi: ago, have been working in silos, right? So we were very good at putting technology 144 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:50,280 Nikhil Joshi: in the factory. You've been very good at adopting technology, for example, on the design 145 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,860 Nikhil Joshi: and engineering side, etc. Now, there's one aspect of bringing all of this together, as you 146 00:12:55,860 --> 00:13:01,380 Nikhil Joshi: just said, that, you know, it all has to come together. But particularly for companies who are starting off, 147 00:13:01,380 --> 00:13:08,320 Nikhil Joshi: what we are seeing is that you can tremendously bring down lead times, either to put up a new factory 148 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:14,520 Nikhil Joshi: or to start operations to scale. If you think of manufacturing operations, 149 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:20,240 Nikhil Joshi: at the design level. Traditionally, we have seen that anybody in product design goes up 150 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,860 Nikhil Joshi: to engineering. So they're thinking of design, but they're also thinking of engineering. But then 151 00:13:24,860 --> 00:13:31,660 Nikhil Joshi: the moment they actually go on the factory floor and try to implement, you see this whole host 152 00:13:31,660 --> 00:13:37,660 Nikhil Joshi: of problems that are coming, which is just making the whole thing inefficient. And sure, 153 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:42,580 Nikhil Joshi: you can buffer that in your product cost, but just imagine that if you could reduce that buffer, 154 00:13:42,580 --> 00:13:49,140 Nikhil Joshi: then the kind of advantage or the competitive advantage it gives you is massive. That's something 155 00:13:49,140 --> 00:13:54,820 Nikhil Joshi: that I am really encouraging startups that we are working with to incorporate. Some of the massive 156 00:13:54,820 --> 00:13:59,700 Nikhil Joshi: visionary startups that we are working with, they are realizing this and they are saying, we're just going 157 00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:05,940 Nikhil Joshi: to bring all the tech stack together, whether it is from design, engineering operations. And essentially 158 00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:12,460 Nikhil Joshi: from day one, we would be a digital company rather than doing half the things on paper, have the things 159 00:14:12,460 --> 00:14:17,520 Nikhil Joshi: in software, have the things in our mind. We just don't want to do that. And it's also 160 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:24,260 Nikhil Joshi: relating Kevin to the talent shortage, right? Like, we have a very big problem when it comes to 161 00:14:24,260 --> 00:14:30,600 Nikhil Joshi: manufacturing in terms of talent. So you don't want a case where you're doing things basically in a traditional 162 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:37,060 Nikhil Joshi: old way and you already have less resources. And when it comes to transform or when it comes to 163 00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:42,440 Nikhil Joshi: adopt automation, new aid stuff, now you are pretty much taking a lot more time. And you are, 164 00:14:42,460 --> 00:14:49,160 Nikhil Joshi: in order to cross the bridge, it just slows you down tremendously. And one of the things 165 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,400 Nikhil Joshi: that startups don't want to do, our initial companies don't want to do, is that they don't want 166 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,320 Nikhil Joshi: to be slow because they are also trying to compete with the big giants out there. 167 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:03,700 Kevin Mako: Love how you mentioned that. Speed to market and thinking about manufacturing early. One of the big 168 00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:09,460 Kevin Mako: things that is critically important in design, one of the main mottosos of macro design in 169 00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:12,440 Kevin Mako: industrial design, mechanical engineering, prototyping and onto production, 170 00:15:12,460 --> 00:15:18,300 Kevin Mako: is thinking about what we call DFM design for manufacturing extremely early in the process, 171 00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:22,680 Kevin Mako: even into your first CAD models, even using the same software that you're going to be using 172 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,860 Kevin Mako: and flowing those CAD models through into prototyping, into manufacturing, and then bringing 173 00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:31,580 Kevin Mako: manufacturing, manufacturing, engineering, manufacturing, logic into the process in design. As you're going 174 00:15:31,580 --> 00:15:36,900 Kevin Mako: through design and into different rounds and scales of prototyping, more and more manufacturing 175 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:42,320 Kevin Mako: logic and advisory and actual manufacturing engineering needs to be put into those designs, 176 00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:46,300 Kevin Mako: into those prototypes, into even the tests of those prototypes to ensure that once you get 177 00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:51,280 Kevin Mako: to that point of manufacturing, you've done most of the heavy lifting. It's already largely built, 178 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,780 Kevin Mako: designed, engineered to then be produced. So we hear these horror stories of going 179 00:15:55,780 --> 00:16:00,320 Kevin Mako: between prototype and spending years to then get into production. Well, that's because you 180 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:05,320 Kevin Mako: designed entirely for just some pretty looking prototype, and you completely ignored 181 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,620 Kevin Mako: how you're actually going to produce that prototype. Remember, at the end of the day, 182 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:12,440 Kevin Mako: you're not actually designing a product. Yeah. You're designing something. 183 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:17,840 Kevin Mako: something to be manufactured. That is the only way that a hardware company is going to make money 184 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,700 Kevin Mako: on parts that are sold and produced. So bringing that logic earlier into the process 185 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:29,520 Kevin Mako: will certainly maybe add a little bit of heavy lift in terms of cost or upfront engineering or time 186 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,200 Kevin Mako: or money, etc. But that a little bit upfront is going to save you a heck of a lot of headache 187 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:40,300 Kevin Mako: downstream. And I think if we can combine the efficiencies of great design with the efficiencies of 188 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:44,080 Kevin Mako: design for manufacturing, as well as working with manufacturers, good at working on new 189 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:49,420 Kevin Mako: products and understand the nuances that every new product has. You put all that package together, 190 00:16:49,420 --> 00:16:53,960 Kevin Mako: like you said, put the tech stack all into one room, let them solve the problems together, and that smoothes 191 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,740 Kevin Mako: out a number of those processes, including time to market, but it's not just time to market. 192 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,520 Kevin Mako: It's the quality of the product, the reliability of product, which leads to the amount of quality 193 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,360 Kevin Mako: feedback that you get, return rates, everything smooths out. If you can think a little bit more 194 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:12,320 Kevin Mako: advance, do a little bit more quality up front so you have to do significantly less and make 195 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:18,580 Nikhil Joshi: significantly less mistakes downstream. As an industrial engineer, when I go in factories, a lot of 196 00:17:18,580 --> 00:17:24,000 Nikhil Joshi: people ask me that given that I've seen the design engineering side as well as the operation side, 197 00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:30,660 Nikhil Joshi: when we say that, hey, you know, if everything can be really engineered, what is really the difference 198 00:17:30,660 --> 00:17:36,100 Nikhil Joshi: than, you know, in manufacturing operations? And I tell them is that, look, you're going to be able to 199 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,920 Nikhil Joshi: really design the plant, you're going to be able to design the manufacturing processes, 200 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:46,060 Nikhil Joshi: etc. And that's all engineering, right? You're also going to be able to design how the product is 201 00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:51,240 Nikhil Joshi: going to behave, where it is going to go. What is missing out is that when you go on the manufacturing 202 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:58,100 Nikhil Joshi: operation side, okay, what is getting added is, okay, how are your raw materials going to come 203 00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:03,540 Nikhil Joshi: in? If you are producing 50 different parts on the same line, have you taken all those parts into 204 00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:09,360 Nikhil Joshi: account and the biggest spoiler is basically demand. Let's say if the demand increases 10x, 205 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,100 Nikhil Joshi: how is the manufacturing operations going to respond? How's the supply chain going to respond? These 206 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:20,580 Nikhil Joshi: aspects basically come as part of manufacturing operations, whether it's scheduling, 207 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:27,520 Nikhil Joshi: whether it is feedback from the shop floor to engineering or whether it is a compliance, 208 00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:33,320 Nikhil Joshi: right? Like if you see medical device factories that we visit, there's this huge aspect of 209 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:38,200 Nikhil Joshi: compliance. You have to do it. And that's when you get to know that, oh, you know, I have to be 210 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,800 Nikhil Joshi: compliant in these 30 things. That's great. And talk a bit about the software that you guys are building 211 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:51,520 Nikhil Joshi: to do this whole integrated system. As a company, SNic Solutions, we call it SNic Solutions. It just 212 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:59,300 Nikhil Joshi: sounds cooler. Our customers call it. As a company, we are solution providers where we use OEM platforms 213 00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:03,300 Nikhil Joshi: from Siemens and Rockwell. And these platforms are 214 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,480 Nikhil Joshi: much made to connect large aspects of manufacturing operations. They pretty much cover the 215 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:14,200 Nikhil Joshi: entire portfolio. So we resell them, we implement them, but then we have a lot of intellectual property 216 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,880 Nikhil Joshi: that we've built on top of that, which allows adoption of these platforms basically very quickly. 217 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:25,320 Nikhil Joshi: So if you took the vanilla version, it would basically, you know, take you longer than what it would 218 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:30,460 Nikhil Joshi: take with some of the integration capabilities that we've built. Essentially, that's what we take 219 00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:36,980 Nikhil Joshi: to manufacturers, but from an output standpoint, we are pretty much improving or just in 220 00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:41,160 Nikhil Joshi: layman terms, we're just making every day better in manufacturing operations, whether it's 221 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:47,440 Nikhil Joshi: efficiency, flexibility, agility. All of those are caveats of just making everything better 222 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,800 Nikhil Joshi: every day. Powerful stuff. What's the website for folks that want to learn more about what you're 223 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:58,480 Nikhil Joshi: doing? It's SNICSolutions.com. That's SNICSolutions.com. You'll find us everywhere. 224 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,440 Kevin Mako: Perfect. I appreciate it. 225 00:20:00,460 --> 00:20:04,360 Kevin Mako: And as always, I'll put the links in the show notes below for anyone who wants to click through. 226 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,740 Kevin Mako: Nikhil, much appreciated for all your wisdom today on manufacturing, especially for emerging hardware 227 00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:15,500 Kevin Mako: startups of their planning to both manufacture and scale into a global brand. Thanks again for being on 228 00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:18,145 Kevin Mako: the show, and we'll talk again soon. Sure. Thanks, Kevin. 229 00:20:18,145 --> 00:20:19,120 Nikhil Joshi: Thanks for having me. 230 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,540 Kevin Mako: Thanks and take care. You do. 231 00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:26,600 Kevin Mako: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast. If you found some value in the show, 232 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,080 Kevin Mako: please do us a huge favor and hit the like button and subscribe. 233 00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:36,460 Kevin Mako: If you have any questions, guest suggestions, or anything else, feel free to reach out to us anytime at our email, 234 00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:44,020 Kevin Mako: podcast at MakoDesign.com. This show is hosted by Kevin Mako, North America's leading expert on product 235 00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:49,520 Kevin Mako: development for hardware startups. And the podcast is produced by Mako Design, the original firm 236 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,120 Kevin Mako: providing end-to-end consumer product development services tailored specifically to hardware 237 00:20:54,120 --> 00:21:00,440 Kevin Mako: startups, small manufacturers, and inventors. Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. 238 00:21:00,460 --> 00:21:06,740 Kevin Mako: That's M-A-K-O-Design.com. Thanks for joining and see you again soon.