E059 - The Narcissist's Lie: Weaponized Sex And The Path to Reclaiming Your Sexuality & Self-Esteem with Hilary Buckwalter-Wilde
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[00:00:00] And this episode, you will discover how the narcissist a weaponizes sex. And the path that you can take to reclaim your sexual identity and your self esteem.
Speaker: Welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mindfuck of narcissistic relationships and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become. I am your host, Bre Wolta, Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified Practitioner. Let's dive in.
How do you recognize when intimacy has shifted from connection to control or if there was ever even any connection in the first place?
In this episode, you will gain some clarity on how sex can be misused as a tool for control and manipulation actually trapping you in narcissistic cycles further.
You are going to learn how the patriarchal patriarchial.
It's hard to say view. Might shape your view of intimacy and self-worth. And how to reclaim [00:01:00] that genuine sexual power. And you're going to discover the steps that you can use to grieve and heal from the traumatic mind. Fuck of realizing that your relationship was built on deceit.
This is a conversation that you are not going to want to miss with fan favorite.
Hillary buck, Walter Wilde. She has been on the podcast a couple of times, and this episode is taking her story a bit deeper. So we are diving into her experience of being in the narcissistic relationship specifically around sex and how sex was used. To manipulate her and how it kept her in these cycles of seeking validation and of stopping the fighting. And so we've really pull apart how she grappled with that, how she healed from that experience. And how she ultimately has reclaimed her sexual identity after having it stripped away. And remember to stick around to the end of the episode, where we will pull an Oracle card that will offer you a message that you [00:02:00] can use this week to stay more conscious in your healing.
Speaker 6: Hilary, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you, Bre. I'm so happy to be here.
As we were chatting a little bit before we started recording, your two, your part one and your part two episodes that we'll link in the show notes, have been two of my highest downloaded episodes.
And your story is so resonant, and I'm so grateful to have you back to talk more deeply about the sex piece and how sex really confuses and entangles us deeper into these narcissistic relationships. So I want to, I want to just dive in. I know I have so many questions, but last time, last episode, we talked about him using sex as a primary extraction tool in the relationship.
And what really stood out to me in that part of the conversation was you were like, yes, and I was also objectifying myself in that dynamic. [00:03:00] So I want to start there. I want to know what that looked like for you and why, why there was sort of that desire to, or maybe not desire, but why you, why you did that.
Why, Why the objectification happened. Yeah,
Speaker 7: absolutely. And first I just want to say that I'm so happy that my story and our time in conversation together has resonated so much with listeners. Um, that's really helpful for me and my own journey to see myself reflected and to hear that, that it's helpful.
Um, Yeah, and I've heard from people in my circles as well that this topic of sex in general is, ~um, ~so needed and so important to talk about, ~but ~especially in the context of these types of narcissistic relationships. And I'd like to start by offering just a specific definition of what narcissistic abuse means to me.
~And ~I read [00:04:00] this really great article from a psychologist who said that narcissistic abuse is the intentional manipulation of someone else's reality for the purposes of extraction and control. And I think that's so poignant and chilling, ~um, ~but it gets further muddied and complicated when we bring sex into the mix, which is such a huge part of many of these.
And so, you know, in the previous podcast, I mentioned that sex was used prolifically, ~um, ~as a form of control and extraction in my relationship and that I had objectified myself. And I also mentioned that I am a sexual abuse survivor. And so a lot of interesting things sort of came home to roost for me unconsciously through the course of this relationship.
And one of them was that I was starving sexually [00:05:00] and had been in this mother, ~um, ~kind of archetype for the better part of a decade. And so when I was free of my marriage and connected with this person, I was on fire. And really fell victim to my own conditioning around sexuality desire, as, ~um, ~is taught to us by the patriarchy, right?
Like, being seen through the male gaze. And so I really got wrapped into that. My former partner had a much different background than me, less experienced in a lot of ways. And so I saw that as an opportunity to really step into midlife, be sexually free, express myself and in all of my, ~um, ~kinkiness and, ~um, ~center my own pleasure and really have the time of my life in a lot of ways.
~Um, ~But in hindsight, I realized that I was [00:06:00] really in the grips of the conditioning that so many of us fall prey to in our culture, where our worth is defined by what it means to be sexual as a woman through the eyes of men. And I didn't know any other way. at the time to really engage sexually. And I was also living in the fantasy, the illusion of the relationship that I was in this healing conscious thing and that we were exploring sex from a conscious perspective.
And so those two things really got distorted and muddy for me, like both trying to find worth and value through sex. But really using it in a way to still center male pleasure ~and, ~and see myself reflected through the male gaze. Does that make sense? [00:07:00]
Speaker 6: Totally. Yeah. And ~coming off of a, ~coming off of a divorce.
I think there's an energy of like wanting to find yourself again or wanting to like reignite parts of you that may have gone dormant in that marriage. ~And so ~I can see how that, that piece partnered with this person who was telling you that this conscious sex was really a form of connection and not manipulation and you wanting to please him and you trying to find your liberation through, through sexual acts for your own self.
Like that all. Got very muddied and very confusing to be in of what piece or why am I acting these ways? Is it because I want to please him? Is it because I actually feel like this is liberating for me? Or is it because I've just haven't been able to do this for so long in my last marriage?
Speaker 7: Right. And maybe all of those things at once.
~Yeah. ~
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Which,
Speaker 6: as we
Speaker 7: talked about before, adds to the mindfuck. And from like an internal family systems [00:08:00] perspective, which we talked about in the previous episode as well, ~um, ~I can see, ~you know, these, ~these younger parts of me that have experienced sexual abuse, incest, sexual assault, um, recognizing in a distorted way The power that I hold as a sexual being and in a narcissistic relationship when the sex is the only place where we're really being seen, quote unquote, or chosen, quote unquote, to be able to wield that power in a way to meet the needs of those wounds became primary.
And so that's been a lot to unpack for me through my healing process, as well, to the point that now I'm older, I'm wiser, I've healed a lot of that wounding, but I'm not sure that I even know how to approach being sexual. at this stage of midlife in a healthy and conscious way outside [00:09:00] of that dynamic.
It's something I really look forward to exploring, but it feels still very tangled and tenuous.
Speaker 6: Yeah, having the awareness of those parts is So huge. Like the fact that you can even acknowledge that you have those parts of you that were coming forward out of a survival need to get a need met in a very, in, you know, a maladaptive or unhealthy way.
But they learned that that was a way that they got the validation or got the, the confirmation that they were worthy. And so for you to even have the awareness around that is, is huge in how you're going to show up in the future in those types of dynamics. Yeah, absolutely.
What, what did that objectification look like?
Cause when I think about the word objectify and in my experience, I felt like an object, right, that's to me, like the easiest definition of that it was, I was [00:10:00] being used for his pleasure, despite my own pleasure, or despite how I actually felt about it, and I almost convinced myself. doing the things that he wanted me to do that I did like it because on some level I did.
I liked receiving the attention and the, the love quote unquote, that I felt like because we were having a connected dynamic and not fighting, but really you could have inserted any woman into our sexual relationship and it would have been. He would have been doing the same thing. It wasn't because he loved me that he was doing those things.
So what, what do you, how do you feel about objectification or what does that, that word mean for you?
Speaker 7: Yeah. ~Um, ~I think another part of the mindfuck, right. Is that we could have been anybody, as you just said. Um, I was just the one who took the bait
Speaker 6: in
Speaker 7: this case. And so objectification for me looked like lots [00:11:00] of lingerie.
So, ~um, ~caveat, I'm also a Scorpio and I like wholly identify as a Scorpio in all of the ways. ~Um, ~I love taboos, sexuality, death, the dark feminine, mushrooms, like. All of it. ~Um, ~and so I was telling myself that I was wielding that sort of energy. ~Um, ~but in retrospect, it was through that patriarchal lens again of my body looking a certain way, ~um, ~adorning myself in a certain way of what I've been conditioned to believe sex is or what the erotic is.
It was from the male gaze, from that perspective of being centered in the male gaze. What would turn him on? What would entice him? What I could, sort of, um, bring him closer to me with, or So it looked like a lot of lingerie. Like I actually had [00:12:00] a section in my closet, like devoted to that. It also looked like, well, I was in that sex coaching training, which I mentioned in the last podcast.
And so it was this weird confluence of things, these parallel lives where it's like, I'm being run by unconscious wounding. I'm being run by patriarchal conditioning, centering me in the male gaze. I am being run by what I think sexuality and being desirable look like, but I'm also in a sex coaching program trying to center my own pleasure while dressing up in the lingerie, while making these playlists, while creating these like day long pleasure events for us to entangle ourselves.
And so confusing to try to unpack which pieces go where, but certainly felt like an object and through the healing process, recognize I was an object. [00:13:00] I could have been anyone. And that has just been such a constant theme throughout my life as a woman growing up in my family and growing up in our society, trying to find worth.
~Um, ~in that space of being centered in the male gaze, largely through my physical presence and what I looked like trying to fit a particular mold.
Speaker 6: Yes. Oh my god. I mean, as women, period. Regardless of any sexual wounding or otherwise wounding around worthiness or being validated, like, being a woman in this world, we are, we're living in the bubble of a bubble.
And on some level even as woke and as feministic and all, you know, all of the things that we can be, there is deep programming around us being ~the, the, ~the source of pleasure for men ~and it's, It's, ~we're working [00:14:00] towards changing that narrative, but we're working with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years of programming around that.
Right. So when you talk about ~like ~this experience ~of, ~of objectification ~in the, ~in your past relationship and not knowing necessarily how to engage sexually in a healthy way, what I hear is this checking in with yourself. And all of us to check in with ourselves of, am I wearing this lingerie so that he will think that my body is perfect so that I can check off the box of being good enough for him?
Or am I wearing this lingerie because it brings out a sensuality and a confidence? And me and redirecting that the intention from, yeah, he's going to probably like it regardless. Right. So what is my intention by wearing this? Is it empowering or is it because I feel like I'm [00:15:00] lacking somewhere and I need that, that feedback that I'm okay.
Speaker 7: Yes, absolutely. And that's a part of the mindfuck too, right? In these relationships is where we're often being told something, but the actions that are demonstrated don't match. And so I was also tricked into this illusion where I was manipulated into believing that the sex was conscious. He was doing quote unquote, men's work, right?
That we were looking at polarity theory together, masculine, feminine dynamics. And so when he would tell me that, you know, I was his queen or this goddess, as I am dressed in these adornments, I. It was very easy to let myself believe that I was in this conscious healing thing. ~Um, ~and so I think maybe both were happening, right?
It's like where there was intention and empowerment, and I was feeling sensual. [00:16:00] And also, There were things being driven by wounds and it was also being manipulated to be controlled and extracted from. And like sort of concurrently with all of this and the relationship, as I'm in the sex coaching program, two years ago, I also found a local photographer who does embodiment photography sessions.
And I thought, you know what? I'm in the sex coaching program. I'm in this healing relationship. I'm going to do an embodiment photo shoot for myself. Where I'm choosing sensuality and empowerment, centering my own pleasure, ~um, ~my body at midlife, right? Like I'm not going to go quietly into the dark night as, as a woman at midlife.
I want to be sexual. And as someone with a platform is also leading sexology retreats ~and, ~and coaching women and couples. on sex. This felt like a great opportunity, not only to do something healing for myself, but then to also have photographs I could use [00:17:00] for promotional materials. So I signed up to do this photo shoot and decided to use the Eve myth from, ~uh, ~The Judeo Christian story, but a more feminine retelling of the act of eating the apple as an act of empowerment.
And had a snake ~in the, ~in the photo shoot. Francois, the ball python, was amazing. Um, but I was in lingerie. I had this ball python. It was in a florist shop, so ~it was, ~it looked like the Garden of Eden. And it was just incredible, empowering. I felt so embodied. It felt like I was reclaiming, ~um, ~myself, my sexuality, my pleasure, healing some of my past sexual trauma.
~And ~when I first told my former partner that I was doing this photo shoot, he ~like ~lost his mind because it was outside of the confines of what was being controlled and I was doing it for myself and centering [00:18:00] myself. I didn't realize that fully at the time. I knew it didn't feel good that he wasn't supporting me, but it didn't jive with, ~uh, ~you're a queen, you're my goddess.
We're doing all of these, you know, pleasure weekends together. ~Um, ~but the day of the shoot, I actually also happened to be teaching a workshop on sex and psychedelics and how they can be complimentary. And so I finished the shoot. I was feeling like a million bucks. I was like, yes, reclaiming, empowered. He happened to be going to the, to the workshop with me.
And he was so upset with me that I had gone through with having the photo shoot that he sat across from me while I sat, taught this workshop and glared at me.
Speaker 6: And then this
Speaker 7: heavy energy like the whole time. And that photo shoot became a bone of contention throughout the entirety of the rest of our relationship because it was this thing I did on my own.
It was this thing I did to empower myself. It was this thing I was trying to do to get on, on the right track with who I was sexually, trying to get out from under the conditioning and [00:19:00] being objectified, ~um, ~to center myself and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, Who I am as a sexual being and center my own pleasure.
And so again, it's like that mindfuck of these different parallel realities that exist concurrently in these relationships.
Speaker 6: The mindfuck might be the biggest red flag in relationships, right? Whenever you start to feel ~like, like ~confused or bewildered or perplexed or whatever word we want to insert there, because the actions are not meeting the words.
That is such a moment to get really curious about what's happening in the relationship. So I can imagine for him, yeah, to say you're a goddess, you're my queen, ~to, to, ~to really amplify what you were doing in the bedroom ~with, ~with the adornments ~and, ~and the lingerie and stepping into your sexuality, but then to give you ~the, ~the cold shoulder or to totally write you off and glare at you and punish you when you tried to step out from doing that.
Those are two very. Confusing, [00:20:00] conflicting experiences with the person who is supposed to be loving you and, ~and putting you up on, you know, ~helping you rise in whatever way you're rising, whether that's sexual or professional or in your friendships, or, you know, our partners are there ~to, ~to help us continue to grow and evolve.
Yep, to support us. And so
Speaker 7: again, like that, I support you. I love you. I'm so proud to be your partner. You're my queen, all these things you're doing in the world, but then the actual demonstrated experience and in our lived daily life was very very different and those photos were actually some of the things I mentioned in the previous podcast that I wasn't allowed to post certain things.
Speaker 6: on
Speaker 7: social media. I did post one and then, um, cataclysmic firestorm, ~um, ~of silent treatment yelling and swearing at me, accusing me of getting something out of it from other men. ~Um, ~so I took it down, which I, [00:21:00] I deeply regret. And I've, I've been sort of playing with that in my healing process of like, when am I going to unveil these photos again in the way that, that they were intended.
to originally be showcased, like, for me and my process and my healing.
Speaker 6: What did you do in that sort of confusion place in that, in recognizing that the actions didn't meet the words? Was that one of the first times that you realized something was not right in the relationship? Or was it something that you kind of tried to brush aside and was not really open to, to seeing at that time?
Speaker 7: Well, ironically. I always went back to sex as the thing that was going to fix it.
Speaker 6: Yeah,
Speaker 7: right because in that place I felt like I was seeing the essence of him But what I think I was actually seeing was Like in the myth of narcissus from greek mythology. [00:22:00] I think he was using me as the reflecting pool Sexually speaking so he's pleasing me.
He's showing up as this particular, you know, man in sex You And he's seeing himself reflected in my gaze. which is feeding his narcissism. Um, and so, but I didn't know that. I thought we were really connecting. He was really seeing me. He was really choosing me in those moments. So any time something went sideways in our relationship, whether it was jealousy, trying to control what I did, he was yelling and swearing, ~you know, ~canceling the weddings, whatever.
It was always like, well, if we can get into bed and we can co regulate our nervous systems together, and I can look into his eyes and we can connect and we can make love. And often with the use of a psychedelic or cannabis, ~um, ~we're going to get back on track because I believed those things were healing.
I didn't realize [00:23:00] those sorts of medicines don't often have the same effect on people with narcissistic traits. And so, He would say all the words in the lovemaking. ~I'm not gonna do that again. ~I'm so sorry. I'm a messy human He would be much softer. He would actually say the words to me. I see you I choose you And so I would feel like oh phew, okay moving on but then right back into the shit You know, a couple of days later, well, then I was like, all right, well, more sex, more adornment, more cannabis, more connection.
~Um, ~and that lasted through the whole thing that I just was not able to fully see the folly of my endeavor in that sense until it was over, but I was so trauma bonded and addicted to the cycle at that point that I just wasn't able to see.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really tough [00:24:00] to, to be in that cycle and recognize that it's a cycle, because it's almost like we're just clawing our way to the next moment where we get to breathe, and then we have sex or do whatever it is that, that makes them calm down or makes them not angry for that moment, and then we get to breathe, and then it's like, When's the other shoe going to drop?
Something happens. And then we're clawing our way back to, to make it good again. And what you said was so important for listeners ~to, ~to hear. And I just want to reiterate in different words that narcissists use relationships, they use sex, they use power, they use, they use people for validation and control.
So they're not coming into a relationship or a sexual experience with the authentic desire to connect and to be vulnerable like we are. Right. We, we also might have ~some, ~some wounding around like using sex revalidation and these things, but it's not the [00:25:00] driving force in the way that it is with a narcissist.
And so for us to try to make sense of the nonsensical, right. It's like we assume that they are coming in with the same intentions that we have to have this conscious. sex exploration, this bonding experience of each other, this deepening of our love, when in reality they're looking for the validation of, oh, I made her come or, oh, I made her do this.
Look how great I am. Right. ~Right. It's so, it's so exactly right. Like ~you are the pool for him in reflecting back. I'm a good lover. I can pleasure a woman, you know, whatever it was that he was like feeding off of in those exchanges.
Speaker 7: And it's so challenging and difficult to really peel apart the layers of this because sex is intended to be the sacred, vulnerable, intimate, connective experience.
And to go through a relationship like this and believe [00:26:00] that that's what's happening, only to discover that it was very one sided. And that might have been my experience, but that wasn't his experience. And that's so damaging and traumatizing. And another piece of this as I was in the sex coaching program was, you know, learning about bodies, learning about physiology, learning about centering my own pleasure.
And I also sort of believed that like, well, my body wouldn't respond to him. in this way, like I wouldn't be getting wet or having these kinds of orgasms
Speaker 6: if
Speaker 7: he was unsafe. So that was also another piece because I didn't fully understand that our bodies can actually be aroused during abuse. ~I'd heard that before.~
I understand it much differently now. But that piece also kept me stuck because when things would go You know, sideways, or there would be an [00:27:00] event where he would unmask that was particularly awful. And then I was like, well, let's, let's go have sex and fix this. ~Um, ~I would tell myself like my body wouldn't respond to him in this arousal.
If he was unsafe, but that's absolutely not true. And so I also want to plant that seed for our listeners as well.
Speaker 6: ~Yeah. ~There's a non concordance there. One of the most amazing books around just understanding sex and physiologically is Come As You Are. Have you read that book? And when I read that too, I was like, Oh yeah, like you hear this stuff from, from survivors of sexual abuse that they feel a lot of shame that they got wet while they were being raped or while they were, something was happening that they weren't consenting to.
And part of it is our bodies just kicking into that, like. Here's the lubrication so that we don't get hurt. [00:28:00] And it's not, it's not always correlated. Like we can also be very turned on and not be very wet. So, you know, but to come back to the societal messaging and expectations, we are told that if you're wet, then you are turned on by this person or this person is doing something right.
And so I can totally see how that That voice, be it a part of you or the society at large came in and was like, Oh, this is the justification for this being a healthy relationship or an okay relationship.
Speaker 7: ~Yeah, absolutely. ~And so confusing. Again, it's the mindfuck of trying to unpack that through the healing process.
Speaker 6: ~Yeah. ~Yeah. What has helped you start to unpack that or start to come to terms with the actual reality of what that sex was for
Speaker 7: you guys? I think time, initially, that, I think, as far as the trauma bond and the abuse cycle were concerned, for me, you know, when we get addicted to [00:29:00] that cycle and it has that physiological impact on our body, sex was so hooked into that for me, that, like, those highs and lows, that when the relationship ended, I really, really struggled with not having sex as something to anchor to or to use to regulate myself and bring myself back to a state of calm.
So I started seeing a sex coach pretty quickly when the relationship ended, but it was more desperate. It was like, Oh my God, I don't have the drug. ~Yeah. What do I do? How am I supposed to live? ~How am I supposed to live like this? Um, because a very wise elder woman had given me the advice that I should be basically single and celibate for four seasons.
To heal my nervous system. And, and I was really struggling in that space. ~Um, I ~I've always sort of gone out and found another person and ended up in another relationship. [00:30:00] So taking the space, not having the drug that was sex was excruciating. It was. Intensely excruciating, but it took a lot of meditation, a lot of patience, a lot of time.
I was seeing four different therapists in the beginning, after the discard, yoga practice, lifting weights, eating well, sleeping well. I mean, Self care on, on overdrive and trying to find other ways to regulate my nervous system while grieving, while sobbing uncontrollably, intermittently throughout the day, while still feeling the cravings of the trauma band and trying to process the new discovery that I had been in a narcissistically abusive relationship.
It's taken a lot of time for me to start to pull apart those threads and I feel like every week that goes by is a new veil.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And it is [00:31:00] so fucking courageous. for you ~to, ~to say yes to ~that, ~that process, because coming out of something ~where you are really, ~where you are really trauma bonded in that way, when your nervous system is really tied to what they're doing, when you, when you've really grooved to these pathways in your brain of when something's wrong, I do this and then we're okay.
Right. It's undoing all of that, which is so fucking uncomfortable. ~I, ~I love the analogy of like a snake shedding its skin. So when we first come out of these relationships, we've shed, we've shedded that and we're this tender, raw, like underbelly, super soft skin that snakes have before their next skin comes on.
And every rock you go over is painful and every movement you make is unknown. And it's like, Oh, I hate this. I hate this. And to keep moving forward through that. Take so much intentionality and so much commitment to yourself to keep [00:32:00] going. Because the alternative is to find another supply and supply in this case, meaning the drug,
like if I can find the man that I can then use sex to validate what I'm feeling, to regulate my nervous system. That's easier because I know how to do that. I've been doing that. That's the dance that, you know, is grooved in your brain. So to shift everything and to throw yourself into a new, ~uh, ~Unknown space where you haven't created what safety looks like yet is so fucking scary.
It's so scary.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was excruciating. I think healing from this mindfuck has been one of the most challenging things that I have ever had to do in my life. And that's saying something because I'm a complex trauma survivor who has been through a lot of things already. But having to unpack all of these various aspects of the abuse and my role in it ~and, ~and what all of that means, and then healing [00:33:00] without the drugs, ~and ~has been so, so, so, so hard, ~um, ~and so, so, so, so valuable.
And so I also want to plant that seed for anybody listening, that like, it is possible. It is possible to survive the shedding of the skin. Um, and the thing about snakes and their skin shedding is that it also peels off of their eyeballs. Ah! And I feel that so, so bad. Deeply, I feel like that's happened a thousand times over the course of, of the last year.
And the healing has been so valuable that now I'm in this place, ~um, ~at midlife going through perimenopause where I'm sort of a blank slate. I don't really know who I am as a sexual being anymore. I'm excited to explore that now that I'm living in a more calm, regulated, ~um, ~system, ~um, ~centering myself and choosing myself and not seeking all of that external validation about my worthiness anymore.[00:34:00]
So it's exciting and it's so enlivening to hear myself say that because I suffered so, so much, ~um, ~this past year.
Speaker 6: ~Yeah. ~Yeah. Being able to reinvent yourself is one of the biggest blessings. I think when we look back on these types of experiences, people ask me all the time, like, would you, would you do it again?
Cause I went through a similar burning down. Right. And it was like that sort of that Phoenix rising experience of everything that I thought I knew about myself and him and the relationship and who I was and how I interacted and like it all just. There was no more, there was no more knowing or understanding what was going on.
But from that, I was able to recreate myself first and foremost, find who I actually was and, and foster [00:35:00] her. And all of these beautiful things have really bloomed from that pile of ashes in my life. ~And ~so, Yes, it sucks. Yes, it's painful. Yes, you feel like skin's coming off your eyeballs. And there will be another side where you get to and you're like, Oh, I understand why that happened.
Or I understand now I couldn't have gotten this part of me without letting that other part go. And that is such a beautiful welcoming when we can step into that energy.
Speaker 7: Yes, and it's also like why the work you're doing and the work I'm doing in the world are so important because I think we're finally starting to learn to name and recognize like the symptoms and the embodied experience of what it's like to be.
in these relationships, and we're collectively waking up, which has the potential to heal so much generational [00:36:00] trauma, conditioning from society, patriarchy, all of these wounds, you know, that we carry around relationships, romance, sex, our bodies, ~and, ~and all of these things. So ~it's, ~it's exciting to me. And ~I'm, ~I'm grateful to you for also modeling ~You know, ~what's possible and being a resource for women in the world.
~It's, ~it's so important to have those touchstones and those lighthouses, ~um, ~out in the world when we're struggling through our own process to make sense of the mindfuck, ~um, ~to have people who can illuminate. And help restore clarity.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we need each other as much as the world will tell us that, ~you know, ~women should be pinned against each other and we can't trust each other.
You know, that's all deep wounding that we've had as a, ~as a female or as, ~as females, I guess, but that doesn't have to be true. And when we can start to lean into other women and their experiences ~as, as ~As a guide, as hope, as someone that we can trust with [00:37:00] this vulnerable experience of undoing and recreating.
~That's, ~there's so much power there. There's so much magic in that, that connection that we can create with other women.
Speaker 7: ~Yes. ~And I'm just endlessly fascinated by how healing from this form of abuse and narcissistic relationships is like a portal. to empowerment, embodiment, to showing up in the world in a different way.
Speaker 6: One of the components of my program is a group component for this very reason. So when women are in a space together sharing what's happening for them in their relationship or in their healing, ~we, we, ~our defenses are down because we're not like processing in the same way as an individual session. So we're actually able to allow more of that information in and for our neural, our, um, neuro neurons to help us connect those experiences.
So I just had an [00:38:00] experience with my client and my group where she came in, obviously, like, you're not working with me unless you know that something's wrong in the relationship, right? But she's still in a relationship and ~she, ~she knows that at some point she's going to need to leave, but she didn't really recognize Until we've been reflecting back to her, like, that's not an appropriate response in a conversation with somebody who says that they love you. And like, being really that reflection point of, this isn't how it's supposed to be, and this isn't okay, and you don't deserve this. And she's really feeling that empowerment now of , This is really bad and I'm going to leave.
And she's like pushing up her timeline and making things happen. But we don't know if she would have gotten there or would have continued in that same justification cycle that we do when we're alone, when we're isolated in that experience. And so to lean on other people, to help you understand what's happening, safe people, ~we have to, ~we have to make sure that they're capable of holding that space and that [00:39:00] information.
But leaning on other people is so. I mean it's a necessity to get out of these types of mindfucks because otherwise we're spinning in the tornado of our own brain. Absolutely, yeah, that affirmation is ~so, ~so critical. ~Any, ~any last words that you want to leave the listener with today if they're exploring healing from, you know, sexual trauma or if they have really had the lights kind of come on around what the sexual dynamic was in their relationship?
Speaker 7: To be gentle with yourself. I think this echoes the message I said last time too. It's like patience and gentleness. It can be so overwhelming to begin to have those veils start to lift. And, you know, to piggyback on what you just said about, you know, your group. Finding. Other people who are having similar experiences and having community where you can see yourself [00:40:00] reflected is also really important.
Patience and gentleness, primarily.
Speaker 6: Yes. Compassion, compassion, compassion. I say that until I blow in the face with my clients. Like, of course you're feeling this because he went through some shit, you know? Yeah. So as best you can to drop that judgment. I love that. Well, to end these, I love to pull an Oracle card.
Will you help me pull one for the listeners? Yes. Okay. So go ahead and close your eyes. I'm just going to start to shuffle the deck and you and I just both tuning into. The energy and what the, what the message is that the listeners need to receive today for their highest and best. When you feel like the shuffles complete, you just let me know when to stop.
Stop. Hey. We got Blank Stare, which if you're not [00:41:00] watching the video, it looks like an owl with big blank eyes. Let me find the message in the book and I will read it to you here. ~Blink Blink. ~Blank Stare invites you to take a moment to pause. No need to react. Soak it in. Take time to process what is in front of you.
Sometimes you are not sure how to respond. You need more time. To think. To speak. Blank stare gives you permission to slow down. Be thoughtful with your words and actions so that they are in alignment with your desired expression, feelings, or values. The high pressure energy of your environment or those close to you may push you to speak or act before you are ready.
It's okay to take your time. Take a breath. Gather yourself. Shoot them a blank stare until you are ready to say what you say or do what you do. Beautiful. Perfect. Perfectly aligned with what you just said. Yes. Yeah. Hilary, remind everybody where they can find [00:42:00] you if they want to get connected.
Speaker 7: You can find me on Instagram at sacredcouncil.
duluth. I also have a website, indwellingduluth. com.
Speaker 6: Perfect. And I'm going to link in the show notes, the two episodes that you've done before, episode 47 and 48, part one and part two of your story. So listeners go back and listen to those as well and get the full picture ~of, ~of what Hilary has been through and where she is now.
Thanks Bre. Thank you.
Speaker 6: ~Okay.~
~ ~
I told you guys, this was a good one. I love to do a little recap at the end of these episodes, just to really drive home some important points that I want you to take away. So from this episode, you now have more clarity on how sex can be used to manipulate. And be really this tool for control in a relationship to keep us stuck in the narcissistic cycle. You also have a better understanding of [00:43:00] how to reclaim sexual identity. And self esteem. Even while living in a patriarchal culture with messages being bombarded at us constantly. And having moved through a relationship where your sexual identity got contorted. You also have clear steps on how to heal from this traumatic mind fuck of realizing that the relationship you were in was not one that you thought you were in. That the relationship was built on deceit. And Hillary talks about the importance of being with your grief and being in those feelings and detoxing from relationships, detoxing from sex, so that you can really come back into center, reclaim who you are, find who you are as a person, period, and as a sexual person, and then really surrounding yourself with support to aid that process.
All of her points are so beautiful.
And [00:44:00] so wise, I hope that this was a little bit of balm for your soul today.
And if you enjoyed Hillary and you enjoyed this episode, you're going to want to go back to episode 47 and 48. That is part one and part two of her story. As always this podcast is for you and you are not alone. I will see you in the next episode.