Hi Kat. Welcome to What your next podcast.

Laura. It's great to be here.

So happy to have you here. You've been a frequent guest, so it's been fun to catch up after I think about a year that we haven't talked to. And

It's two years since my last release, so I think it's been a.

two years. And lots of change. Lots of changes as we were catching up. So tell us where you have an opt to.

Well, my next book, my newest book is Star Shipped, and it involves two actors on a long running sci-fi show who hate one another. In a really like normal way where they like they car, they carpooled together to work and they have memorized one another's coffee orders. And then when one of them wants to quit the show he realizes that he's gonna have to do something to save himself from getting the reputation of being impossible to work with. So he decides to fake a friendship with his work enemy.

Yes. Oh, but they're such horrible enemies. Like they're they walk each other, they take care of each other. It's comfort. And, I think it's, I really appreciate the impossible possible one who feels like anxious about all the things and how everyone hates him. And I feel that because I feel like everyone hates me,

of course, Right.

So Starship is actually once one of my favorite books in 2025. It was the Perfect Companion to a Heated Rivalry So if we've been reheating the series, I think this is a great book to read because it does have this, two broken soul coming together, actually having an emotional turmoil but at the same time healing and finding themselves. And it seemed it's a little bit of PR instead of the hockey world. We got celebrities, we got TV shows, and we got long run sci-fi show. So if you are looking for some of the other fan fiction in the other world, this is kinda feels that flavor. So let's talk about Starship. What led you to write this book? 'cause I know there's a story behind it.

Really I love a sci-fi show. Like in particular, I love a sci-fi show that is set on a spaceship. I, I am a big fan of Star Trek, even though this show has probably more in common, like aesthetically with Battlestar Galactica. Okay. Or maybe possibly SGI Atlantis. But but I love it and I real, I love Fanfic for that type of show. And like basically where I got the idea is there's this. Letter that Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek, wrote to Sci-fi novelist Isaac Asimov after Asimov Vi visited the Star Trek set. And this, in this letter, Roddenberry is complaining, saying like my two stars they hate one another. Okay? Like they are jealous of one another. They complain about the other one getting more lines and. Asimov responds what you've gotta do is just put them in every single scene together. And that is literally what Rodden Mary does. And like the, basically five minutes later, like the episode he writes is the episode that pretty much paves the way for like Modern slash Vic. And I love that. I love the idea that like, that relationship between Kirk and Spock is like. It is the product of a get along shirt type of situation. I love that. I love that it worked okay. And that those two actors wound up being friends. I love that. And I love that it made this show better, right? I, like I think that's it's like such a sick, it's And how did, as, how did Isaac as I even know that, how does he, how did he have the solution? Like I just think that's great. And every time I, like for years, every time that letter surfaced on like Tumblr or whatever, I was like, damn, like somebody should write a book about that. And then when the market for historical started to soften a couple of years ago my agent was like, like you could write a contemporary. And I was like, me, like I, I could not possibly write a contemporary. And she was like, come on. And that letter resurfaced on my Tumblr feed again, and I knew what I had to do,

I didn't work. I was telling you. I was like, it was a rush to take, but I felt like. I think this is a good risk to have taken because I think you get to see its celebrity party. You get the dorky celebrity group by, which is you also get the fandom. Then you get these two characters that are well developed and they have their own backstory and their own character arc, and it just comes together. And the forced proximity around it allows them to grow. Like there's no third eye breakup and it doesn't need the third eye breakup because it has to come. There's a, there's an internal and external conflict that's driving them too. Move forward and to build a solid relationship and to heal themselves, to see themselves in a different light and see, you know what we think you hate me is actually I love you. And I think that's like a really awesome place to see that place. What was it like as I talked to you about historicals and it, and you actually write about different historical time periods, so there's different types of research. We talk about the 1960s and it was actually much more easier than, other time history. What was the difference? What, how does it feel writing contemporary where you didn't have to quote unquote historical. Time fiction, but you still have to do research because it's a TV show and it's a theater and there is actually a world, an industry that we are familiar, but we may not know the intricacies of what it looks like.

So when I'm usually, like, when I'm researching a historical, I. It's my interest in the period that gets me to write during that period. Right. That's, otherwise I would be writing something else. Right. So with the contemporary, it was weird 'cause I didn't have that line into into the, there wasn't a period for me to research. And also when I'm researching a historical, I don't, I iied over the parts of that era that I don't have any interest in. So if I'm writing a book about like when I was writing, you should be so lucky, there's baseball in it. But I'm not writing about act like I, there's very little happening during actual baseball games 'cause I don't feel like writing about that. Okay. Not that I'm that interested, I just don't wanna get that on the paper. And I have honestly very little interest in the behind the scenes workings of television shows. Where like I've read books where it's clear that the author is passionate about that. No, I like the show as a concept, but I don't wanna write about, I don't wanna write, like they're doing a take and then they're doing another take. That's not interesting to me. And that will come that me being bored will come across in the writing. Right? So I want there to be like the energy of the show without having to do, without writing about the minutiae. Right. And of course, what I wind up doing is the show basically starts when the season is ready to wrap, and that way we can get like the mood and the flavor of the show without having to be on set too much. 'cause when I started to do research for it, I was just like, ugh. This is, this would be so much better suited for somebody who cared. So someone who cares, like a lot there's plenty of writers who do and they're doing great work and that's just not me. But it was actually really fun to, to like in, to like instead. Be like, okay, like my research is I'm gonna watch all of my favorite sci-fi shows. That's what I'm gonna do. That's my research. And that's what I did for a year. And I made my family watch them with me. And they, and my husband is on board completely. Like at any given minute, he'll drop what he's doing and watch Star Trek, the original series. And the kids like, in their like one big act of rebellion, hate sci-fi, I guess. Okay, like whatever. Go be cool and, and so they, but they even, they suffered through it. And but I really enjoyed that. Like I, I enjoyed filling the time. That would've been research time with watching these shows remember, and remembering what I like about them so much, and then putting that into the book.

Yeah, I think you got the essence of the show and you got the things that we know about it. But I love the fact that it was during the off season, it was in between seasons. It was like a character who was like leading the show and not wanting to come public, and then the other character being like, well, what's my role? Because. Has, we've been placed in first proximity for so long. And then, we also have to talk about disability because there's a character who has to come to terms that they have a disability. It's an it's an invisible disability from. Layman's term, but it still is a part of it. They have migraines, they have anxiety, and it's a character process. And the other character who also has trauma actually has to be a support system and being a marriage say actually don't hate you. I. Love you or I care about you and you do have a disability, and there's a stigma, but it's not the stigma. You cannot have that stigma on yourself, internalize the stigma.

Yeah. Like he also has this problem. This is Simon, the main character with he has like anxiety OCD and migraine disorder and he feels like he isn't. Disabled enough to be disabled, and I think that's really common when people's disability actually comprises, like more than one thing. And it's where it's like, where we're not like, okay, sure. Like maybe because you'll think to yourself like, okay, I know somebody who has this, and they train for triathlons and they, you know what I mean? Like they don't need,

It's a Olympics. It's a, I call it the trauma Olympics. It's like when you're high functioning, you go and with stuff like you can do a, you can. Go through mass. Like I, I've, I'm really high functioning and anxiety and like I mask a lot of it and a lot of times people are surprised 'cause I'm like, I have PTD and and it's but I'm high functioning. And then I try to, and then I compare, which is what Simon, this is why I identify with Simon. It's like I can compare with other people and they're doing much better,

Hate.

Yeah, other people look at Simon. It's you're doing so great, you're doing so well. And yet the debilitation of having anxiety or OCD or even a migraine, just a migraine episode and having to stop everything and like actually heal, like a lot is I thought it was like just a good representation of high functioning person.

It is like it, it is actually like really terrible to me. The number of people who have the book isn't even out yet. As we're recording this and the number of people who have told me they relate with Simon is like truly awful for all of us. Like none of us are driving. We're doing terribly. If we're really, if we're relating with Simon, this is not a good sign,

yes. I was like I related to, sorry, I forgot the name, but I related to the other character with the trauma and the instability of the family, the childhood. But then Simon, that was like how I actually, how I. In my adult life had learned how to function with the high level of they just need to just survive because it's basically survival. There's no, you can't, if you don't, if you don't do this, you may not be able to like, make your end meets or you may not be able to do what needs to happen. And I think it's just, it was just this reflection of myself. Oh, I, I may have, a disability, I may have this trauma has compounded not just emotionally, but physically. And this is, it's part of the course and it doesn't make me less or better. And I think that was what helped me to see this book that was like, oh, you can be accepted and you can just accept yourself. You don't need to internalize the the sense of that you're wrong or. They're horrible where they're like, they just are,

I think also I mean for Simon, like he. He is only doing marginally better at the end of the book than he is at the beginning of the book. You know what I mean? Like where and I, but I think that like he logically knows he there's that whole, the experience where like logically, you know that you are full of shit for being like, I'm not disabled enough. Okay. You know that logically, but like believing it and acting on it or that's for future and so Simon is at the end he's because I really wanted to write somebody who didn't like, the thing where a character like encounters therapy and then they become their, like best. They've reached their final form, and that's great. Good for them. But I wanted to write somebody who like still kind of sucked at at coping with their, with with their problems at the end, and yet they are loved and they love, and they're going to be fine,

yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's like the part of it, it's like you, don't have the pink cloud. Like I, I compare it to when early sobriety you go in, you just you feel like, oh my gosh, on top of the world, you just reach that level and then you realize, oh my God, the real world happens and you have to deal with it. Like it's a much more difficult and I think in some ways I appreciated that it was like marginally better because this is incremental. This is slow process. This is like years in the making. 30, 40, 50 years. Probably at the end of your life you might be a little bit better and you accumulate different coping skills in different seasons, but also keeping in account that this is set in the contemporary world where things are terrible, like they're not getting any better. So it's like how do you cope with it? And so yeah,

I know who has like anxiety and OCD symptoms right now is like. Rearranging their cabinets and checking the light switches, like doing all of the things that we've, like we may have been fine for like years, but like in the last year we have redeployed all of our terrible coping mechanisms,

yes.

I feel you know what, like that's not a sign that we've gotten worse. It's a sign that the world has gotten worse and we will have time in the future to get better, but that is not the season.

No, it's not the season. I think it's yeah I have maladaptive behaviors and I'm going to therapy after this, so it's gonna a lot of time, but I realized, I was like, yeah, it's a terrible place and it's. And I think what it's helping me is like it's not doing the behavior that's maladaptive. It's how I actually interpret that behavior. Where in the past I'll be like, have a case of the fuck its and have a case of shit. And that's just something that Simon has to realize is no, you can't have it. You just have to interpret it a little bit, slightly different. It doesn't have to be like. Full on Pink Cloud, everything's going well. It's just more oh, there's a little bit of love, or there's a little bit of this, or I did really well for this activity and that was just what I needed and that was enough and so it's allowing that place, accepting that you can. Fix yourself. I hate those transformations. This like 75 heart like you're gonna do. I'm like, I fail all this stuff because I'm like, no, there's no way. Like the, you're gonna transform yourself in like in a hardcore group of activity

No.

and let alone do it in 2026 when the world's on fire.

We are all like, best case scenario, treading water. That's just all it is. And also like I feel like you reach a certain age. Right. And I think I reached that age a while ago, right? Where you realize that you actually are not getting better. Like you're not okay. Like this is it, you know what I mean? Like where you're going to have whatever this whatever is whatever your psychiatrist put on the chart you have that. Okay. Like you're gonna be buried with that. And and like maybe they'll invent a new kind of therapy. Maybe they're may or like maybe they're gonna have a new drug. Who knows, but you are going to still have joy in your life and you are still going to have successes and it is going to coexist with whatever bullshit is in your brain. And that's your reality. And that's I don't wanna say making peace with that, but coming to terms with that and being like, that is like the good and the bad. They are happening at the exact same time, on the exact same day in my. In my like malfunctioning head, like that's just the way it's going to be. And yes. I wanted to write a book where that happens for two people who to outward appearances probably seem fine to most people.

Yeah. It's radical acceptance. I hate to say this. It's It's so not sexy and it's so not good, but you just have to accept it and you, it doesn't make it's dialectic and everything's good and bad. Big coexist in the same place. Everything's gray. Nothing is white or black or white, and you can't control. You're,

Yep. Mm-hmm.

You're out of control. And it, I think at this point I, like you said, like you're gonna be buried with the diagnosis and it is just this, and that's, and you're gonna be with the medication. At one point I was like I was told by a psychiatrist that I should lower my, me my anxiety medication because I was healed for anxiety and that was. That was a trip two years later. I was like yeah, I need to go back to the regular medication that I've been on forever because I, I don't my head has thoughts. I have rumination, like I have a lot of a very noisy head and I was like, there's no way I'm gonna have like noise that I have to quiet down and then be in life and let alone be in life in 2025.

Mm-hmm.

We're, we have algorithms that just do scroll they're fed into the disorder. They were like fed. I'm like, no. So I did go back to the medication and they're fine,

I periodically will be, well, like I'll get a new doctor who, like I moved into, like I have brand new medical care. Right. And which is if only doctors could like prescribe over state lines, that would be great. But I'll get a new doctor and the doctor will like. Will look at me and realize that they're dealing with a very broken car, and they'll be like, I know. They'll like, I know what to do here. And I'll say, sure, go for it. And then no matter what, six months later I'm on exactly what I was on, a year ago, but okay. Okay. Sure. And it's fine. It's like working for like a given value of working. Sure. Sure.

Yeah all right, let's talk about books. What books do you wanna recommend listeners to pick?

Okay, so I actually, like after I sent you my list of books that I wanted to recommend, I had this horrible sense of dejavu that I had already recommended one of them. And then I realized I don't care. I really like this book a lot. And so I'm recommending it twice. It's so like my theme here is like the, your classic buttoned up. Like order chaos type of pairing. That's kind of what I have going on in this book. And I like it a lot. And I especially like when the buttoned up character can kind of stay buttoned up. I, like they don't, you know what I mean? They don't necessarily have to become a freewheeling person because that's completely unrelatable to me. Okay, so the book that I think I may have recommended before, but you know what, now I'm just gonna recommend this book Every time I see you, Laura, it's, it's something wild and wonderful by Anita Kelly. It is. Honestly, there's letters at the end and, well, we'll start, I'll start with the premise of the book. It's two people meet when they're doing a, they're hiking, they're on some kind of like long, multi-week hike, which sounds like awful. Okay. And yet the way Anita describes it in this book, it sounds beautiful, like a life changing experience. Anyway, one of them is like very buttoned up. Mm-hmm. Neurodivergent. And the other one is very much not that at the end of the book there are letters. Okay? So you have this whole like section of the book that's epistolary and it is so romantic that I was taken totally by surprise. I think I'm reading a romcom wrong. Okay. And I'm like sobbing on my couch. Excellent. Five stars. Another one is with Love from Cold World by Alicia Thompson, and that is coworkers. One of them is very buttoned up in a she had an unstable childhood kind of way, and the other one is much more freewheeling and it is so satisfying to watch them like. Learn to trust one another and get glimpses of one another. I just, I love that type of energy in a romance novel and Chef's Kiss by TJ Alexander workplace. And, honestly, like I will happily recommend every single thing that TJ Alexander writes because they're doing some of the, in my opinion, like some of the best character work in the genre,

have a polyamory one.

oh God. That's so good. That was so good.

by the way.

I mean, I read that book in two sittings and I it came out when I was. I had a whole bunch of back to back migraines and like reading was not working for me, which is really bad for me. 'cause reading is all I do. And this was an arc, so I didn't have the audio book, which is usually my work around for when my eyes were not on board. And I did not care. Like I tore through this thing. I was like, it doesn't matter. No pain, no gain, I just see how these crazy kids make it work. And like people talk about like the challenge of writing a poly, like writing a, like a poly romance. How do you make it believable? No. The real challenge is how do you fit in like character arcs for three different people or more. Right. And TJ does it beautifully.

Yes

I love

They're so good.

Yes.

And they're writing. They're running career

Yes. I've only read the first one. I haven't read the the one that comes out next month. And I am looking forward to that tremendously. But a gentleman's gentleman is the one that came out last year and it is so good. Like I was. So delighted when I saw that this book had been picked up. Because again, like all I'm hearing is that the market for historicals is soft. And the fact that this book exists and that's so good and it's, and again, like there's strong fairy tale energy, but it is like grounded in a version of reality that we all know. And it's just like very loving and tender and like you have a very you come away from that book feeling like. These two characters and that they're like genuinely fond about one another, which is lovely to see.

Yes. Oh, these are great recommendations. I love them so much. I, anytime we get to talk about TJ Alexander is a good day. Just talk, I do need to put Anita Wild Anita Kelly's book on my TV BR because I know you recommended it already and I'm. Why I haven't done this. And now you're like, I'm gonna cry. And I am like, you know what? Maybe I need to rein touch with my feelings because that's actually good for you.

Do you, you're an audiobook person, right? It's a good audiobook. Like the production value for that is good. So

Okay perfect. I'll add it to my audio. I'll request it for my library.

I wanna say that Hoopla had it at some point. If your library is a hoop blue library.

Yeah. Awesome. Kat, tell us where your, find online.

Okay. My website, I'm basically off social media, like we're doing a little experiment over here to see whether you can release a book with only being on social media in like the most basic way. So my website is cat sebastian.com and the real way to find out. What I'm up to is my newsletter, and so the signup is on my newsletter. I send out newsletters so sporadically that I routinely forget my login. Okay. So like that is the Cat Sebastian Promise, which is that I will not bombard you with newsletters.

Yes. Awesome. Thank you Ka, for being in the show.

Thank you, Laura.

Thanks for listening to the What three next. For more book lists, cozy reads and library tips, visit the what three Next block.com. Your next great read might be waiting there.