Julie, , how are you?

I'm really well, Hamish.

How are you?

I'm really good actually.

we haven't had a chat

for a few weeks now.

we've all been

very busy, hey?

well, it, was that time

of year, but now it's not.

So when this podcast gets

released, it's going to

be the 23rd of December

and hopefully everybody is

finished work for the year.

and is enjoying

some time with their

family and friends.

I know when this podcast

goes out, I'll be in

Beechworth with my

family and extended

family, uh, hopefully

doing some mountain

bike riding and camping.

That sounds glorious.

You going away Julie?

not until January.

So I have a quiet

wind down time.

, and we have a Fairly

small family, but we,

I really look forward

to this time of year.

Winter and Christmas

are the two probably

busiest times of our year.

So just to clarify there,

you like this time of year

because work's busy or

because you get a break?

I like this time of year

because I really like

Christmas and I really

like a break and I really

like working with people.

So, you know, I'm greedy.

I like all this stuff.

So Christmas is obviously

this amazingly joyous time

of year, generally for

most of the population.

I certainly, mostly look

forward to the end of the

year and winding down.

I generally go away, you

know,, come 20, 20th,

21st, I'm in the car.

And we're typically

driving north, either

to Canberra or South

coast somewhere, cause

that's where we generally

spend our summers.

, but Julie, you did touch

on just then that for

you as a psychologist,

, this time of year can

be quite busy . Could

you maybe tell us why?

This time of year is

quite busy for you

as a psychologist.

I think there's a couple

of things, because for

a lot of us, it really

is a great time of year.

Like, we're really looking

forward to it, and it's

awesome, and we've got

a break coming, and

, fun times for others.

It can bring up, some

difficulties for

various reasons.

There can be people who

are heading into Christmas.

That might be

struggling financially.

A common thing that I see

are people sort of having

to spend time with maybe

family that they don't

normally spend time with.

And that can be

really challenging.

Some people actually

struggle with, , the

lack of routine.

So work provides this

really great structure.

It provides social

connections.

It provides a lot

of things for them.

And when they go into

that sort of ocean of, not

purpose or not routine or

not things to do, that can

actually be a challenging

thing for people.

, and a lot of time it

brings up feelings

around grief and loss,

because we often think

about the people that.

We wish we're around

at this time of year.

And that can be

a difficult time.

So that would be some

of the types of people.

You know, some people

do have to work

through Christmas.

So we're all having

heaps of fun and they're,

sucking it up at work.

Other people perhaps can't

get to see their family

at Christmas because of

location or other things.

And so we're all having a

great time talking about

our family catch ups.

And they're away

from their families.

So, , the list is long.

There's other things

like mental health

and social isolation.

So it's really nice

to remember as, as

exciting as it is for

lots of us and fun.

It's pretty cool to think

about perhaps others

that are having a , a

different experience.

Yeah.

had

An Instagram

post last year.

I generally go away and I

spend, generally spend two

to three weeks in the South

Coast, New South Wales.

It's like my absolute happy

place, but I would quite

often go into a period and

it usually lasts for two

to three days where I'm

really flat and I'm really

down and I actually don't

want to be around anyone.

And it was the last

time that I was away

where my wife turned

around to me and said,

you are like a bike.

Whenever you stop,

you seem to fall over.

So going back to one of

those things that you said

before about, , purpose and

routine and all of those

kinds of things, I think I

fit into that kind of camp.

And even though I

love spending time

with my family.

I'm one of the fortunate

ones where I enjoy my

extended family, my sisters

and parents, , brother in

laws, sister in laws, I

really enjoy their company.

, but I will find myself

in a period where I

feel useless and I feel

like I'm not achieving.

Yeah.

Have there been things

that you've tried in the

past to sort of work with

that feeling, or is this

sort of you realizing

that that's what happens

and now starting to

think about what to do?

I've actually done a bit

of work on it this year

with my psychologist and

I've recently changed, to

a different psychologist.

not that there was anything

wrong with my previous

one, but just sort of

exploring different things.

that's healthy.

a big part of

it is probably

comes down to my ADHD

diagnosis, but I certainly

don't want to make this

whole discussion about me.

But some of the biggest

things for me in knowing

that I do this going into

this Christmas, I'm armed

with a better understanding

of how I react and respond

and the things that I

can do , to help me get

over those things and not

go into a trough, which

I would normally do.

Is it, this is time of

year, Haym, or is it,

do you usually like, for

example, if it's a middle

of the year and you took

three weeks off, do you

still feel the same?

Yeah.

I think so.

I think it's actually,

for me it's just that

stopping and stepping

out of the routine.

Like I'm quite

a busy person.

It is hard when you go from

a hundred to like zero.

Yes.

And I know you and I

talked about this just

before we jumped on here,

Matt, uh, that you can

just take the foot off the

accelerator and put your

feet up and read a book.

I am very good

at switching off.

So for me I feel like

I get one break a year.

So I usually take break

in the middle of the year.

I only did one

week this year.

We usually like to try

and get overseas for

four or five weeks in

the middle of the year

to turn my brain off.

I'm extremely good at

that moment that I'm done.

My brain is off.

Do not think about

work whatsoever.

I think it's something

that I trained myself

very early on when I

started my business.

So first house I

ever handed over,

I worked it out.

I was pretty much in the

middle of the pyramids.

So I learned very

quickly, you know

what, hand it over.

I've got a great

team around me.

I trust them.

Bookkeeper can take

care of the financial

side of things.

So I just learned that

I need to be able to

have a break myself and

I might have forced it

upon myself, but I've got

to be doing something.

I can't sit still.

So the traveling, like

when Nicole and I travel,

like we go, go, go, go.

We don't stop.

does that make sense?

Yeah.

How far into your business

life did you get to a

place where you could hand

over stop and switch off?

Like how far

in were you?

straight away, that was

my first ever house I was

a builder, before that

I had gone to America

over Christmas when I was

still a carpenter, I was

still having like a bit

of a carpentry business.

The first house I ever

bought for myself, we

settled in it when we were

in the middle of Cuba.

And I was like, ah,

what's gonna, like,

someone can sign off if

something goes wrong.

I don't know, I've, I've

always been pretty good

at just being like, it

will work itself out.

That's spectacular, Matt.

You've got to bottle that

and perhaps give lessons

because that skill to

be able to, properly

switch off from work.

It sounds like you get

very engaged in whatever

else you're doing.

Yeah, so like, for

example, I was away

in Gold Coast over the

weekend for wedding.

I

had to, like,

I've got to read a book.

I can't just sit there and

do nothing and by the pool.

so like, I've got to read

something and it's got

to be like more factual.

So

think you're an anomaly,

normally Matt, but I

also feel that what

you're describing, I

think in my opinion is

probably something that

a lot of business owners

experience Like I can

switch off from work.

That's fine.

Like, I know that things

are under control,

but I'm like, you,

I need to do things.

I can't just sit

down and do nothing.

And I reckon there's a

lot of people surfing,

bike riding, Whatever

it is, but Julia, I want

to kind of circle back

to, some other things

probably more traumatic

reasons why people don't

like Christmas, whether

that's from childhood,

financial, whatever it

is, if we I guess, can

identify that with people

that were around I guess

over that Christmas break.

How are we able to

check in with them to

see if they're okay?

Cause I kind of feel like

it would be quite difficult

for them to be in such a

quote unquote joyous time

of the year, but feel

really down about it.

So how can we help,

I guess, facilitate

a more welcoming and

comfortable environment for

Or identify it as well.

I feel like sometimes

it's hard to identify.

they're two good questions.

and it's not rocket

science at all.

It's just having a little

bit of a think about the

people that are around you.

And hopefully in your

businesses, you might

know a little bit about

your colleagues lives.

You might not know a whole

lot about them, but you

might know enough to know,

Oh, that's interesting.

John is not talking

about going.

to visit family, or

you might know somebody

who's had a loss this

year or last year

or the year before.

And it's actually really

simple, to what we've

talked about in the past.

We often feel awkward

because we don't, quote

unquote, want to make

somebody feel worse, so we

don't bring something up.

But I've got a neighbor

that I'm going around to

talk to after today, and I

know that he lost his dad

last year, and I'm going

to go, Hey person, or hey

Dave, how are you going?

This is your first

Christmas without your

dad, or your second

Christmas without your dad.

How are you going?

And he might, Get upset

and that's okay Because

it's not your job to fix

it and it's not your job

to make him feel better But

he will most likely feel

isolated Because nobody's

asking nobody's talking

and so it's really simple

It's just oh, if we take

something, less sort of I'm

not going to use the word

big because these questions

are really simple.

How are you going

without your dad?

Simple as that.

I understand you're

not visiting your

family this year.

What's that like?

You don't have to fix

it, don't have to make

it better, but often

that person would like

to talk about it because

everybody else is talking

about all their other

stuff and they're not

feeling like they can talk.

So you're never

gonna do a bad thing.

If you ask a question

and somebody gets

upset or cries, you

haven't made them upset.

You haven't made them cry.

They've got those

emotions sitting there

and those feelings there.

And by you asking, gives

them an opportunity to

actually speak about

it or have somebody

there with them.

So you can't make it worse.

It's an absolute fallacy.

actually remind, I've just

written some notes down.

Cause I've actually got

a really close friend

of mine who two or

three years ago, him and

his partner split up.

It would have been like

now before Christmas,

maybe it was closer

before Christmas.

And, um, I see

him regularly.

We chat a lot.

In fact, I'm chatting

with him today.

And I know that this time

of year, because they

share the kids, and I know

that on Christmas day he

doesn't have the kids.

And I feel really

privileged that he

actually invited our

family over on Christmas

Eve to spend it with us.

Cause that's kind of

going to be his Christmas.

And unfortunately I can't

make it, but it's really

made me thinking about, how

important it will be for me

to check in with him over

the next couple of weeks.

Cause I know that this time

of year is probably going

to be really triggering for

a whole range of reasons.

And I know that with the

conversations I've had

with this person over

the last two or three

years, that we have a

very open and vulnerable

relationship as it is.

So I know that

it's going to be.

Not an easy conversation,

but I know how to ask

the questions to him

because we've asked

those questions before.

How are you?

I appreciate these times

of year really difficult.

Just know that we're

here for you as your

extended family.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's a

simple thing.

Like if we all sit here

just for a moment and

anyone that's having a

listen and just, , just

think about someone

that you haven't

heard from in a while.

Just think of one or two

people that you haven't

heard from in a while.

And either right now

or at the end of,

finishing listening,

just reach out to them.

It can be a simple

text message.

It can be a call.

How are you going?

What's going on?

catch up for a coffee, do

whatever it might be, but

that's a really great way

of, you asked earlier,

how do we identify them?

that's a classic one.

People often go quiet

when they're not feeling

so great, or they kind of

go offline a little bit.

It might be simply that

they're really busy,

clawing their way to the

end of the year, or it

could be that you just

reach out and, um, that's

a really simple thing that

you can do to check in.

So if everyone thinks

about one or two people

that they haven't heard

from in a while, jump on

the phone or drop around.

I've just written a couple

of people's names down.

I would love to think

that there are people

listening to this, on

the 23rd of December

and are thinking about a

couple, one or two people

that may find this time

of year challenging and

maybe this is the reminder

or the gentle nudge for

them to go and check in.

I think that would

be incredible.

So, um, yeah,

that'd be amazing.

That'd be fantastic.

you know, in my work I get.

To talk to people that

are, mildly to moderately

having not a fun time.

And the isolation and

being left out that

can really add to it.

So these are really,

simple things.

Sending a text, having

a cuppa, just checking

in, dropping around.

You might sort of

suggest something like

a, break from their

devices and let's go

for a walk, because

that gets them moving.

And it gets them out

in nature, tick tick.

And it gets them, spending

time with someone.

So that's three ticks.

And they're really simple

things, but they're

profoundly important.

can I just, circle back

to those three things

you talked about.

So, there's evidence around

being in nature, which

is really great for us.

There's evidence around

Human connection,

which is where that

is really important.

And what was that

last one, Julie?

getting out and

moving around.

So

yeah, moving

around.

Sorry.

Exercise.

Yeah.

So moving around, exercise.

So nature connections,

exercise, three simple

things that I know for me,

we're circling back to how

I was feeling, how I feel

when, you know, I'm away.

I know getting out of my

mountain bike is the most.

amazingly cup filling thing

that I can do because I'm

exercising, I'm generally

riding with someone,

and I'm out in nature.

Yeah.

And going back to that

idea of, you know, often

feeling flat in the

holidays, there are a

couple of other elements

that feed into that too.

So often exercise falls

away because we lose our

routine, but sometimes

sort of alcohol and other

substances increases.

And that can certainly

play into, feeling

flatter and lower.

So I've got that

word alcohol circled

I think it's a good

discussion point because

it's that time of year

where people let loose and

we know that alcohol is one

of the biggest contributors

to a lot of problems.

And especially when you

talk about issues with

people that might be

isolating with themselves,

they might turn to

drinking more excessively

than they usually would.

I want to touch on that

because I think it's

a very, very important

topic to add into it.

And for those who, a

lot of people might not

identify it as a problem,

but it can be very quickly.

Do you have much

advice around excessive

alcohol consumption

at this time of year?

People who are potentially,

by themselves and have

turned to drinking.

so isolation and boredom

on one of many things

that fuel excess drinking.

And so one of the things

we know some people might

have a heavy evening

of drinking or day of

drinking and the following

day they'll definitely

feel the difference in.

It often increases your

anxiety and it often

really decreases mood.

So some people have a

particular physiology.

I don't have the

science on this, that

this is what we are.

I don't know what the

physiology is that does

this, but often people get

more anxious or quite flat.

And I would encourage

people to be, there's an

excellent organization

called Turning Point,

which has wonderful

online Drug and alcohol

counselors you can talk

to people, you can do text

messaging, counseling.

There's some brilliant

online resources there.

So Turning Point's a

fantastic organization and

there's other organizations

that you can reach out to.

but certainly.

Difficult emotions often

fuel increased substance

use because that's your

mammal brain going you

know this doesn't feel

nice, I would like this

to go away please and

alcohol will, you know,

is quite effective in that

It acts as a

depressant, doesn't it?

absolutely it does so

it tends to decrease

your agitation.

It numbs things out, it

inhibits your frontal

lobe and does a number

of things to you feel

good at the start, then

after a few drinks,

that's when things start

to become problematic.

Yeah.

Now, I want to also

loop back to something

you said a little bit

earlier, and you said the

word crazy time of year.

Now, this probably isn't

relevant now, potentially,

it's more maybe a next

year Christmas thing.

But I feel in our industry,

there's this crazy rush

that everything has to

be finished by Christmas.

And it's probably something

we should have talked

about a little bit earlier.

It becomes this magic

date that everything has

to be done by, that the

project has to be finished.

Am I going to

be by Christmas?

For what reason?

I don't know.

I think that creates

a lot of anxiety

within our industry.

One of my first jobs I

ever finished, I said,

we'll be in by Christmas.

It was the dumbest thing

I ever said to a point

now when we have a, when

we meet a client in our

first package it says in

bold letters, you will

not be in by Christmas.

Like, it is

black and white.

We do not rush you

in by Christmas.

That's a really good thing

to live by, I think,

and lots of industries.

the 20th is a Friday that

most people are gonna

be finishing this year.

Like, let's be realistic.

Like, if you hand over

a project on the 20th,

they're not having

Christmas Day at their

house because by the time

they get all their boxes

packed, hypothetically

they're moving on the 20th.

And shit isn't magically

finished by the 25th.

Like, it takes

time to unpack.

I know you do you go into

your post hand over 3

months post a project and

they're still moving in.

So I don't know why people

rush around this day

and I just feel like it

creates so much stress

in our environment that

as a building community,

we should all start

to band together like

no Christmas isn't it?

It's an arbitrary date.

It's a time to

celebrate for most.

And it's a time that

we should be sort of.

Starting to relax if

you're having a holiday.

It absolutely is an

arbitrary date, isn't it?

the 25th of December.

Yeah,

No one's going,

hey, let's get in by

Labor Day weekend.

That's the day we

want to be in our

house.

Like, no one's pushing

for Queen's birthday

or King's birthday now.

there by Halloween.

It's really important.

I dunno, like I think

about my personality, like

I like the idea around

having to get stuff done

by date and then I kind

of feel like I can just

let it all wash away after

that date and and maybe

these are the, these are

the pressures that I put on

myself because I kind of,

you know, maybe I'm after

that dopamine hit, but I

like getting to the end

of it and going, ah, ah,

I've

got all those things

done now I can relax.

This time of year,

there's no flexibility.

Like, hypothetically, if

it is Labor Day weekend,

if it's a week later,

it's a week later.

Who cares?

But like, as of the

20th, I'm going to

say most people have

finished this year.

oh yeah, totally.

The only other point

I wanted to raise was

just to make sure that.

When you're, reaching out

and supporting others,

it's all right to make

sure that you're looking

after yourself too.

So, you know,

are you hydrated?

Are you rested?

Are you mountain biked?

Are you, connecting with

your social another thing

we talked about recently

was, was boundaries and we

talk a lot about boundaries

around Christmas and,

boundaries can also be

your own personal ones.

So they might be, Hey,

I know that when I

don't have routine,

my drinking goes up.

So I'm going

to think about.

alternating a water

with a wine or a

water with a beer.

So I'm going to put

my own boundaries in.

I'm going to think

about, getting enough

sleep perhaps so I

don't get ragged.

As well as, you know,

the boundaries that we

might want to talk about

when we, we meet family

members socialise with

and can be a little bit

challenging for some of us.

Since the old conversation,

like, how's work going?

Yeah, good.

How's your work going?

Good.

Yeah,

Same thing as last year.

Same conversation we

had the last Christmas.

you're talking about, then

Julie is like, guess, a

good understanding of what

your own triggers are.

and understanding and then

communicating it to others.

I know Having the

communication with my

wife saying, Hey, you know

what, I'm going to go for

a ride in the morning.

Is that thing going to

allow me to sit on the

beach with you all day?

If I don't go for a ride

in the morning, the only

thing I'm going to be

thinking about while

I'm sitting at the beach

all day is going for a

ride in the afternoon.

mm.

So it can't be present.

I can't be present.

I know this is me, right?

I don't know.

Like everyone else has

got their own things.

One thing I did

want to just circle

back to is alcohol.

Now, all the things that

you said before around

anxiety and mood swings

and all that kind of

stuff are the reason that

I don't drink anymore.

Now, I don't

think I'm a hero.

I don't want to say

that I'm a hero and I

might have a couple of

drinks over Christmas.

Yeah.

And I certainly don't want

people thinking that we're

sitting here poo pooing,

catching up with family and

friends and having a drink.

Because let's face it,

it's a big part of our

culture and it's a big

part of catching up and

engaging with people, like

connection, massive thing.

So yeah, don't think

that we're like poo

pooing, going out and

having a few drinks.

All we're saying is just

be mindful because there

are more opportunities

to have those drinks with

these people and it could

actually play on, you know,

how you're showing up to

your family and friends

and even to yourself

throughout this period.

I think it's about just, if

you're that person and you

feel you've identified

it, you never wanted to

speak up about saying,

oh, maybe I'm not going

to drink, like it is

okay not to drink.

So it's just, it's

you taking the power

back to yourself and

feeling comfortable to

say, no, I'm not going

to have that beer.

Like I'm okay.

Like I'm having

a cordial today.

Like that is actually okay.

Um, It's also okay to have

you 10 beers if you want.

often we work with people

and we literally sit there

and practice what sentences

they're going to use when

they are going into those.

Let's say you've decided

that you don't want to

drink or you want to

drink less at Christmas

and you might be going

into an environment

where people drink a lot.

It's actually really

helpful to go and

practice the sentences

that you want to say.

Because it's quite strange

actually, you'll often say,

do you want to, somebody

will say, do drink?

And you go, oh

no, thank you.

Or, why aren't

you drinking?

I mean, I'm curious as to,

and I, I do drink, I drink

wine and beer occasionally.

But it's strange that

that's the question.

Why, why aren't

you drinking?

You know, it's kind

of the flip side.

Why are you drinking?

So I often work with

people where we, we

practice sentences.

It might be, oh, I'm good

thanks, or oh, for health

reasons, or, and then

we help people practice

changing the subject.

Do you actually ask,

get them to ask back,

why are you drinking?

And flip it back

the other way.

because that is kind of

interesting being like,

why are you drinking?

And just putting it

back on that person,

I'm certainly comfortable

to ask that question.

It really depends on

the relationship though.

So you know, you might

have a really sticky

relative where you just

know that that's, not

going to be helpful.

So diversion might be

the best way to go.

For other relatives, it

might be, I don't want

to talk about that.

Thank you very much.

not to drink for, I don't

know, 10 or 11 months now.

And it's certainly a

lot easier sitting here

now at Christmas time

and having the tools

to sort of say no.

For me, in the beginning

it was about acknowledging

that alcohol gives

me quite bad anxiety.

So if when someone

says, oh, why

aren't you drinking?

I go, you know what?

It makes me feel shit.

So I'd much prefer to wake

up tomorrow morning and

feel great for my kids

and for myself and for

my wife than, having a

dozen beers and, getting

a shit night's sleep.

Does anyone wake up the

next day and be like,

oh, I had a huge night.

I feel great.

Not since I was

20, Matt.

yeah, yeah.

The next day you're like,

did I go out last night?

Now being 35.

I had two whiskeys

and I'm like, fuck.

Next day.

Yeah, absolutely.

No, I don't really know

anyone that does that.

But Hamish, did you find it

awkward or difficult in the

early phases socializing?

yeah, I did actually.

I think that I've got

a bunch of, supportive

friends, including.

You and your husband, who

I spend quite a bit of time

with socializing, and I

guess having the support

of your friends going, oh

cool, awesome, no dramas.

That made it a

lot, a lot easier.

I think the other thing

for me, the fact that

there are so many great

non alcoholic beers now,

that was a big thing for

me, like not being around

and, and having the drink

in the hand, because

it like a social prop,

that if it's taken away

from you, like what do

you do with your hands?

Like when you,

having a drink,

or having a chat with.

someone, you've got a

drink in your hand, and

I guess it, makes things

a bit more balanced

because they've also got

a drink in their hand too.

So that has made it a

lot easier for me and,

generally if I go out

and I know people are

going to be drinking, I

would also have And non

alcoholic beer as well.

I'd say the first two

weeks are the hardest aim.

I did six months this

year and two weeks I

just found once you're

through that you're

like, um, I'm good now.

Yeah, I certainly don't

want this to become

a virtual signaling,

episode of you know

that we're Better than

everyone who don't drink

like this is my choice,

right?

if I didn't feel shit and

get anxiety the next day

I fucking love drinking.

I love being out with

friends and drinking,

but I know what it

does to me the next day

So for me on balance

That's the one.

works for me

There's a really

interesting series by Sean

McAuliffe and he does I

think it's about a four

or five episode series on

alcohol in Australia and

it's really fascinating.

I learned a lot.

He had, very problematic

relationship with

alcohol, blacking out

and for quite some

period of time and then

chose to stop drinking.

For anyone who's

interested, it's a really

fascinating series, just

uh, what alcohol means

in Australia and in

society and culturally.

I learned a lot.

I highly recommend

that one.

So you said the word

culturally, which is my

next thing because this

time of year is also

especially with the trades

we work with, a lot of

different religions and

cultures and backgrounds

and for them, this isn't

a time to celebrate.

That's just not

in their calendar.

Like I'm not religious

whatsoever, but I celebrate

this time of year.

How do we sort of deal

with those sorts of people

that their Christmas or the

equivalent might be saying.

in February or

something like that.

Yeah, I think that's

again, knowing a little

bit about the people

that you're working with.

I have a stock standard

I don't say to people

Merry Christmas unless

they say that first.

I say, I

hope you have

a good holiday.

are you getting a break

at this time of year?

Very careful, not like

paranoid careful with my

language, but just aware

that for good, bad or

other, it's a different

time for everybody.

Just because, They don't

celebrate Christmas

doesn't mean that it's

good, bad or otherwise.

It's just, I can remember

some people who, in their

culture, they didn't

celebrate Christmas, but

they did very much enjoy

coming in and giving me a

gift because they enjoyed

the gift giving part of

the whole season, but

nothing to do with you

know, the reasons behind

sort of our Western or

Christian type Christmas

um,

Haym, I've got a question

for you though, quickly.

With like your sites,

do you shut your sites

down over Christmas?

Yeah, 100 percent

definitely.

So how do you go about the

conversation if you had a

trade that you wanted to

work through that might

not celebrate Christmas?

You know, that's a

really good point.

And obviously I want to

try and be respectful

to everybody's creeds

and cultures and all

that kind of stuff.

But as a business, we

choose to close our

building sites down.

And it's not for me

a religious thing.

It's a mental break

thing, you know, knowing

that my sites are down,

my team are away and

the phone's not ringing.

is a really great,

boundary for me.

So

I know on the

20th, we're done.

Yeah, and I think as a

builder for us, it's the

three weeks of the year

when we know our phone

is not going to go off.

that is a very

nice feeling.

I also have a little

thing that I do every year

also when I go overseas.

I always tell everyone

I'm coming back a week

later than I actually am.

So the first week I'm

back, I can be quite

quiet and get my stuff

done and just get back

into it and prepare

what I need to prepare.

And then have everything

ready by the week

that I'm then back.

everyone thinks I'm back.

Well, Matt, I've

learned so much today.

That is a ripper.

I'm taking that

It is great.

You know how much stuff

you get done, and then if

the week after everyone's

like, we need this, like,

I've already done it here.

And they're like, and it's

all back in their court.

So your second week is also

a little bit more chill

you've just scripted

my voicemail for, uh,

telling everyone when I'm

going to be back at work.

It's not just

builders too for me.

Christmas is the only

time that I don't

have team working and

there's no possibility.

We're not a crisis service

so we literally shut down

and for my brain that's

delicious because there's

literally nothing that

can be cropping up during

that time and I really,

really value that as well.

And at the end of the

day, like, I don't want

to be, if something goes

wrong, like, what are we

going to be able to do?

Most things are

generally shot.

If something goes wrong,

another trade is probably

going to be away.

So let's just not

worry about it.

Let's just take some

time to stop, relax.

I think it's this time

of year is a time to stop

and spend time with family

and friends if you can, or

even if you just want to

spend time with yourself

and work on yourself like

it's that time just to grab

two or three weeks to relax

and just set yourself up

for the following year.

that's probably a

really good point.

Like, everybody uses

this time of year to

recharge however they

choose to charge.

And it might be by himself,

it might be with 100

people, it might be at

four different festivals

over the Christmas break

and New Year's break.

Julie, your quote just

then, for my brain, that

is delicious, is such an

amazing way to describe

that your brain also needs

nourishment and rest.

and recuperation.

What a line.

I'm going to use that one.

Thank you.

I am in the business of

working out what people's

brains need to thrive

and reframing it to, not

that I can't or I won't

or I don't, but just

looking at what, what

actually makes me tick.

So, say for example,

I have client free

Wednesdays and as best

as I can, I mean, this

is a special thing, but

I try and do very little.

Let I have quiet,

I have no screens.

I do the minimum amount.

'cause I know

that's what my brain

really thrives with.

And then Thursday,

raring to go, Julie

is back on track.

But knowing that, that's

just like working with it,

you know?

You like Mountain

Tuesdays, Wednesdays,

Thursdays, and Fridays.

And then it's the weekend.

That's no Matt Client.

Monday, Tuesday,

Thursday, Friday,

Wednesday is Brain Day.

I'm going to make this easy

for Julie and everybody,

but firstly, I'm going to,

I'm going to wish everybody

a safe and happy break.

Julie, I'm going to wish

you a very Merry Christmas.

Matt, you too.

I have really got a lot

out of Talking to both

of you this year in these

podcasts, which, especially

with you, Julie, cause

I've obviously learned

a lot and we were really

great opportunity to chat.

And I know that our

listeners have got a

lot out of it as well.

Just from the feedback

that we're getting from

personal messages to me,

to Matt, but also to the

mindful builder podcast.

So thank you and

Merry Christmas.

And can I thank the two

of you for inviting me

on and for having this

continuing conversation.

I'm finding it just,

well, I absolutely love

seeing two of your smiling

faces, but talking about

this stuff, I could bang

on all day about this

sort of thing because

it's my absolute passion.

But yeah, it's been

an absolute joy and

a pleasure to chat

with the two of you.

Yeah, we're very happy

where this has come over

the 40, well yeah, I think

this will be episode 44.

So

Really?

yeah, so it's a pretty

good achievement

of where we're at.

I think that's something

that we should celebrate

home and we've spoken about

and It's growing faster

than we thought and people

are, I know the feedback

we've got is great.

So, and you're a huge

part of that Julie, so

thank you very much.

From Hamish and

us and myself.

So I hope you both

have a great break.

Anyone that celebrates

Christmas, enjoy it.

If you don't, that's okay.

And

I look forward to chatting

with both of you next year.

one last comment.

Everybody just look

out for yourself and

be kind to yourself.

Enjoy you guys.

Absolutely.