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Hello and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.

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I am Andy Orian, alongside me as my fabulous co-host, pk.

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Hi.

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I am indeed.

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Hey, and with today, we are joined by the wonderful Robert Wesson.

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Robert is c e O of Axiom, international Financial Services.

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They basically, uh, help companies access treasury solutions in new markets, which you'll no doubt explain, um, even better than that.

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But, um, it's a, it's a fascinating world.

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Everyone needs access to treasury.

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They need it more than ever, I would say.

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Uh, and you need people like Robert to help you navigate this market and find you solutions.

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Without a doubt.

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I mean, let's talk about your business because it, it, it, it's so important, and especially I'm sure to some of our listeners, you know, if you know anything about entering a market,

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particularly the uk Yeah, well, you can get yourself a company, but getting yourselves as you would say, treasury facilities or in common normal couture, but perhaps not technically correct.

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Banking bank account.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's an incredibly difficult process.

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I mean, just, just tell us a little bit about what you do and what you, where you think the market is and things.

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Essentially, I took a product range that wasn't meant to be taken to the market that I've taken it to, and really the business was built off the back of constantly being told that it's a massive problem.

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When businesses are set up in the UK that have overseas ownerships, no local directors, no local compliance, et cetera, cannot get.

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An operational bank account.

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Uh, and you'll know, a lot of your listeners will know, you know, whether you are entering into America or into Europe or wherever.

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That's a big challenge.

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It's hard everywhere, is it?

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Well, pretty much.

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I mean, look, it's, it, yeah.

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A lot of markets it is hard.

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Some are easier, but, but you know, if we focus on the UK for now, then, then yeah.

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Setting up a sort of a newly established, uh, subsidiary of a larger parent company.

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That has very limited compliance.

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The banks just don't give you an account.

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You know, that's been a problem for a long time and it's certainly not changing.

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So they don't want you, I mean, no, but that's again, another, probably another longer conversation.

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But you know, people do also have to realize that, you know, these days you are just fitting into a bucket that it's probably too hard basket for compliance.

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You're not really gonna make the bank any money.

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You are just a, a, a, a number which enters into a risk matrix and therefore the computer says no.

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Uh, and I people want to hear it or not.

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Unfortunately, that's, you know, pretty, pretty close to the truth.

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So really what, what I did and, and, and what we had Axiom did was, was take the money license, which was really designed by.

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The Treasury post 2008, to minimize the social impact of large banks failing.

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Oh, really?

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We see, I thought even existed before 2008.

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2008.

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Well, I think that was when it sort of really came to fruition.

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Yeah.

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It was about minimizing that social impact if a large bank was fail, which essentially means that the banks have to safeguard the funds, but the banks aren't allowed to trade on the funds.

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They're not gambling with your money for, for, for want of this in a slightly unfair term.

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Well, if you take a very simplistic view of wider, large banks fail, I mean there's first republics having a run at the moment.

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Obviously Silicon Valley Bank a couple of weeks ago, et cetera.

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You know, in its simplicity is that, that the trading department of the bank is, is obviously making trades.

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Trades go south, they cannot, they, they default on the debt and they're taking clients' deposits and then they run out of money essentially.

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So the banks are fault, the e-money license protects the consumer.

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So the idea is that the funds are in a fully safeguarded account and therefore the banks cannot use those funds in order, um, to pay their deposits or to pay their debts on their trade.

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But the initial, you know, often the reaction and, and, and, and is from people.

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Yeah.

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But I want Barclay's or Lo, you know, I want this brick and mortar thing, but actually what you're telling me is this was designed to be safer from day one.

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Yep.

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So we've, we've had lunches with banks and what have you, and, and actually e money providers that have moved into being a full p r a registered bank.

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And, and by their own admission that the only reason that they would transition from a money provider up to a full p r a is, is really commercial because they are.

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Essentially making money on their client's deposits.

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What the money license does is protect the consumer.

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So from a security perspective, if you have an operational account, if you rang me up tomorrow and said, Rob, I want to have 50 million in an account that I'm never gonna touch, I just want some interest on it, then obviously we don't have the license for that.

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Or, you know, our partners gonna have the license for that.

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And that's not what we do.

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If you rang up and said, I've got 50 million, that's, you know, we're gonna be used, it's active, it's gonna be trading currency, we're, we're, we're paying up payments, we're doing payroll, et cetera.

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Then that can fall into the e-money license, um, to license.

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And what that means is that then that count is safeguarded and the liquidity protection is at a hundred percent.

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Oh.

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So fundamentally for all e-money providers, you know, and there's lots out there.

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If you're not, you're not familiar.

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Probably one of the most famous, you know, is, is Wise.

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I guess there's, there's, there's so many though.

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There's lots of people who have e-money licenses.

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Some of the people you deal with you may think are banks or e-money licenses, but for all of them they need you to trade.

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Is that the case?

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Well, I mean, again, I.

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Mean, I don't wanna be, you know, delving into sort of too much regulation.

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But the, the, the sort of general premises is that in order to qualify for any money account is that there has to be activities, there has to be sort of onward payments.

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Something has to be happening.

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Yeah.

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Something has to, because the banks aren't just gonna protect your money for free.

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Right.

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So the sort of, the trade off is, is that again, if someone, if you go back to that easy example, someone brings up and says, I want to protect 50 million in a fully ring fenced account, but not do anything with it, then the answer's no.

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That falls outside of the, the regulation scope.

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If the, the accountant has to be an active account.

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You know, because the banks will generate revenue elsewhere on your fx, on your payments, on your wire fees, your monthly fees, whatever it might be.

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Mm-hmm.

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Which obviously is important, so, The, the protection that you receive under an e-money license, as long as it's an active account, is, is the sort of the winner from the security perspective.

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How do they do the international bit?

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Because I probably explain it wrong, but plants will say, I'll say to 'em, look, the, you know, you, you know exactly like this week, you know, you are a trading business.

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You've got money flying around the world.

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You are, you know, have you got e-money FX facilities?

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No, we don't.

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We just got hsbc.

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It's quite a standard answer.

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Answer.

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And you're like, You.

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Okay, great.

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Keep h s bbc, you know, don't get rid of anything, you know, these days just have lots of options, I think.

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But you are crazy.

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You know, you, you should be using these people who make their money out of fx, uh, and moving around.

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But the bit I've never understood in my head, I say to them, you gotta stop thinking about geography so much.

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You gotta stop thinking bricks and mortar of physical bank with money in it because these platforms suddenly give you a bank account that you pay and receive in the US or in Australia.

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Yeah, I, I think again, you know, people have to modernize their.

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Approach and then understanding of what's available on a sort of treasury perspective.

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The reason we say treasuries, cuz we try to avoid the word bank and banking cuz you know, we're not a bank, we don't operate with banks, et cetera.

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But what we do do is we provide, you know, treasury solutions that want people to understand what the benefits of those are.

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Then they actually help very large corporates as well as sort of, you know, pre-revenue startups.

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I'm a re, I'm regulated in the UK as an e-money license.

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How have I got a bank account over in America, this payment rails.

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So they have a collection account that will be given via bank in America.

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So it's a local collection account.

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So there's a payment rail that will be unique into the, to the client's name.

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So, oh, plug into the system of the money flows.

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Exactly.

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Payment rails.

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So let's take a really easy example, right?

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So if you're a UK corporate, then you're selling into America, and so you've been onboarded by a a UK.

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FCA regulated sort of e-money payments provider.

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That business can then, um, have a collection account, treasury account, business account, whatever you wanna call it, just don't call it a bank account in America, which, which basically receives in local payment methods.

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So in America it would be receiving in ACH and receiving in Fedwire, which if you are a business in AM in a UK business, but dealing in America, you can put on your invoice to the American client.

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Here is my local account in America.

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Which is get local payment method capabilities.

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So for them it's an easy language they understand so they can pay a US dollar bill into a US dollar account based in America.

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So everyone understands that.

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How it works from sort of the regulation perspective is, is that really that account is being used to collect the funds as a payment rail, and then those funds are essentially swept

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back into the sort of the, the FCA regulated safeguarded account under the FCA regulation, which will essentially be with, you know, tier one bank like Lloyd's or Barclays, et cetera.

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This is a question you don't have to answer, but where do you think it's going?

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Well, there's been a big shift in, you know, what I've seen, you asked me a minute ago where the market's going, and I think Sunny Silicon Valley Bank was, was sort of, you know, the, the crystallization of my train of thought.

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But for, if you go back to five, six years ago when we sort of really started on this journey, people were a bit afraid of the, the letter E, you know, E Money.

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It's online, it's, you know, we don't understand it.

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I don't really want to understand it, you know, et cetera.

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Still there.

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Yes, but the way that we can describe it, the way that we explain it, the what, why we do operate with some of the world's larger businesses.

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Cause people are now starting to understand it.

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Yes.

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And they're like, Hey, I can keep, so let's say you're an American business.

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You have a, a banking relationship with Chase.

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We don't wanna take your banking relationship away from Chase.

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You keep your banking relationship with Chases.

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What we wanna do is, is allow you to understand that you can open up accounts in foreign jurisdictions in the space of 24 hours.

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You know, have a, a smoother payment flow with your international clients, do your payroll, you know, locally, et cetera.

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You can have a space in your international treasury for modern FinTech, which essentially is faster, you know, in theory, better, cheaper.

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Easier to use, et cetera, which sits alongside your traditional relationship.

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And I think there's been a change at the sort of C-suite of larger businesses that go, hang on a minute.

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This is beneficial and we can have an element to our business where this really helps and adds value.

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And that's the big difference.

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How do they get round, you know, just, just to get down to the bwb kind of question.

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So, you know, if you deal with a, a major old school bank that's happened to me.

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Uh, someone sent some money from Macau and it wasn't, it wasn't masses, it was 20 grand.

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It was a enough.

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And this made the bank meltdown for like ages.

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They, they froze the account and turned up.

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They were like, why did you get money?

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We were like, well, we'd sold some cosmetics in China.

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They're our distributor and they paid us.

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You know, so they, but they're like, Macau is one of the most black money areas of the world.

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Yep.

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We now have to monitor your account constantly and we need all the paperwork and like, you know, these, the, the bigger banks Snap West is, I mean, I tried to just pay a musician,

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um, yesterday and, you know, in, into his local bank account here, although he's overseas and you know, he, and they rang me up and they were like, where did you get the bank?

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He, I was like, well, he just emailed them to me.

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And I'm like, I know it's him.

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Cause I know how he writes.

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And they're like, we're not gonna allow the payment.

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Please get him to date.

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Verbal conversation, you know?

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And in a way I was like, okay, fair enough.

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You're doing your job.

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You're right.

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Maybe it's bullshit, but how did the e-money cope with that?

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Because there seems to be an ability with e-money to move money around.

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Yeah.

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But they operate within the parameters that they're given by the regulators.

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So, I mean, I, I, off the top of my head, can't think of many e-money providers that would accept money in from Macau.

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Right?

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I mean, that's an extreme example.

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But yeah, you do have a, an appetite.

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And a lot of this does come down to compliance appetite, so, You know, again, you can't name me a lo a a sort of an international bank or certainly a, um, a large international bank that most people would know of that hasn't been fined money laundering, you know, they all have, right?

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Yeah.

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And, and therefore that becomes with its risk and you know, therefore the risk appetite dwindles all the time.

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Whereas with some of the money providers, obviously they have a slightly healthier appetite.

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You still have to fit within the compliance bucket.

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You know, and this is what's very clear, and people have to understand, there's no cutting corners.

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You know, you still have to provide the right paperwork, source of funds, source of wealth, still king of the castle.

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If you cannot provide, you know, a clear paperwork of where that money's come from and, and that the, the source of those funds is, fits within our compliance appetite, then you're not getting, you know, you're not getting an account, let alone having sort of flow of funds.

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Yeah.

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So it's not that they're getting around it.

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I just think that there is a sort of slightly different appetite and they have, and this is another thing that you know, comes in, they have a dedicated teams to try and investigate this.

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So onboarding, great question.

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People always ask why, why go to NatWest takes six months and you know, and never get an answer.

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You guys can do it in a couple of days.

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How do you do that?

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Well, we have a team, or our partners have a team that you know, based internationally that will have maybe five or six individuals working on one account.

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They can open it within a couple of days because they've actually gotta dedicate, they've paid to have the skillset set.

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Yeah.

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To have people actually look into this.

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It's almost where the banks have gone wrong and, and, and, and Metro started doing it.

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I'm not sure if they had any impact because I was banging along to them for ages, like just.

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Charge people a thousand pounds, if that's what it costs you, because sometimes it's madness.

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You, Amina, it's madness.

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It's like, I've been to their offices in Australia with the Department of Trade.

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I know the ceo, they're all verified.

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You know, it's like, why?

204
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Why are we freaking out?

205
00:12:10,415 --> 00:12:10,484
You know?

206
00:12:10,484 --> 00:12:16,685
But, but again, you know, again, it does come down to the fact that people maybe have to sort of slightly understand that the banks don't want their business because

207
00:12:16,685 --> 00:12:23,675
they do enter into a risk matrix, which isn't gonna produce them much money, and therefore you are just a cost and a liability to the business, rightly or wrongly.

208
00:12:24,010 --> 00:12:31,930
You know, and I think people, it does have to be an understanding that if you are entering into a new market and you don't have the local compliance, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, then the bank doesn't have a God-given Right.

209
00:12:31,930 --> 00:12:32,710
To give you an account.

210
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:33,490
You know?

211
00:12:33,490 --> 00:12:41,740
And I think that yes, the banks perhaps, you know, have got a, a slightly heightened, you know, sense of, of risk at the moment, but it ultimately is nothing to do with me.

212
00:12:41,740 --> 00:12:44,500
Uh, you know, I'm not here to talk about their, their sort of risk appetite.

213
00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:51,520
Are you proud of, um, where London is in this FinTech world, or do you think we could do things a lot better still?

214
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,100
Well, I think our banking, I mean, I travel a lot internationally for work.

215
00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:56,020
You know, north America is our largest growth market.

216
00:12:56,025 --> 00:13:00,100
You know, I, I, I have great relationships in, in Calgary and in Canada, Western Canada.

217
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:08,130
Um, and our banking is, whether it's FinTech or sort of traditional banking, is streams ahead of, of where it is in other jurisdictions.

218
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:08,430
Mm-hmm.

219
00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:10,320
So I think in that respect, absolutely.

220
00:13:10,350 --> 00:13:11,010
Then, then yes.

221
00:13:11,015 --> 00:13:16,320
And I think if you go to sort of bog standard, when we're talking a couple hundred million dollar turnover companies, so they're not small.

222
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:23,190
That is not small, you know, and, and you go not a medium No, but in, in America and, and calendar, that's not, you know, that's not uncommon, let's say.

223
00:13:23,580 --> 00:13:26,460
And they'll be dealing in, in, you know, pretty big, let's say car.

224
00:13:26,475 --> 00:13:34,905
You know, manufacturers in, in Germany, you know, for the last 30 years they've been sending their invoices in Euros to the, to the business in Germany.

225
00:13:35,115 --> 00:13:38,295
But putting us dollar Bank account details on the invoice.

226
00:13:38,325 --> 00:13:44,505
So the German firm is basically paying out Euros into US dollar account, whichever bank they're using is just going, thanks a lot.

227
00:13:44,510 --> 00:13:46,815
We'll do the FX at 2%, 3%, whatever.

228
00:13:46,815 --> 00:13:47,595
You'll never know.

229
00:13:47,895 --> 00:13:55,695
We go into that boardroom and say, oh, by the way, within a day or two, we can give you a collection account in Europe in your name that your client can pay in euros, which is easier for them by the way.

230
00:13:56,085 --> 00:13:58,875
And then you can control the process of F fx, et cetera, et cetera.

231
00:13:58,875 --> 00:14:00,255
They're like, they don't believe you.

232
00:14:00,495 --> 00:14:01,725
It's almost instant.

233
00:14:01,815 --> 00:14:02,835
Well, yeah, exactly.

234
00:14:02,895 --> 00:14:04,035
The payment rails are instant.

235
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,665
And look, you know, we could, we could, you know, do a whole nother podcast on the ins and out to the actual product range.

236
00:14:07,665 --> 00:14:16,635
But ultimately I think the message is, is that, you know, here in Europe, here in London, here in the uk, you know, we do have a a, a modern treasury product range, which is quite superior.

237
00:14:16,965 --> 00:14:20,475
To, to many other jurisdictions and often meet our meetings.

238
00:14:20,475 --> 00:14:24,525
People do not believe that we can achieve the product range that, that we tell them we can.

239
00:14:24,555 --> 00:14:26,295
What do you say to a business then?

240
00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:28,095
A small or medium sized business?

241
00:14:28,095 --> 00:14:30,795
You know, who, who, who's looking for solutions?

242
00:14:30,855 --> 00:14:33,285
Um, cuz so many companies are global now.

243
00:14:33,285 --> 00:14:34,846
I mean, what, what are you gonna say?

244
00:14:34,885 --> 00:14:36,555
Well, well, I say accept help.

245
00:14:36,555 --> 00:14:40,455
You know, you know, don't, don't be, you've obviously mentioned a lot of companies still want that Bricks and water.

246
00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:42,225
They still want the, you know, the sort of what they, they.

247
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:52,420
Perceive anyway to be a traditional bank account, but I think a lot of them have, have come to the conclusion that, you know, there's no, there's no bank manager in that bricks and mortar.

248
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:52,930
Absolutely.

249
00:14:52,930 --> 00:14:57,550
A building that is going to talk to you or spend any time on you or give a fuck.

250
00:14:57,579 --> 00:15:02,280
I mean, there is, if you'd moving enough money, but it, it's then very, there has to a shed load of money though.

251
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:11,589
But you can still have, there's still, and this is, this is the point, and this is what, you know, I talk a lot about there, there is, there is now people don't understand that there is a, there is a seat at the table for people like us who have been innovative.

252
00:15:11,895 --> 00:15:21,075
We've gone out to the market, we've, we've created essentially a front office white label, which has partnered up with much larger regulated entities to bring those regulated entities products to the client.

253
00:15:21,345 --> 00:15:23,925
Because often the regulated entity doesn't want to deal with the client.

254
00:15:23,925 --> 00:15:27,045
They don't have the, the way or means, or they're not bothered, et cetera, et cetera.

255
00:15:27,045 --> 00:15:28,265
So what we've done is allowed.

256
00:15:29,070 --> 00:15:37,740
Sort of the underlying client will access a far greater sort of modern treasury world, which is accounts in America, fx, you know, whatever it might be, through our network.

257
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:43,500
So what would I say to them is I would say, well, yes, be prepared, but also carry on with your traditional banking relationships.

258
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:51,570
But just be aware that actually having help and you know, being able to have support via sort of more modern.

259
00:15:51,925 --> 00:16:01,795
Um, treasury methods, you know, probably, well, you offer someone to talk to, I mean, to your point, if you deal with, most of my class will just say, oh, Andy, I'll have to do an Australian, Andy.

260
00:16:01,795 --> 00:16:04,195
I just want someone, you know, that always gets into trouble.

261
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:04,465
Oh, I know.

262
00:16:04,765 --> 00:16:06,475
Every time I, uh, I do a villain.

263
00:16:06,475 --> 00:16:10,665
I always do an Australian as well, so, you know, you know, I just want someone to talk to.

264
00:16:11,155 --> 00:16:13,405
You know, I've, I've got transactions going on.

265
00:16:13,405 --> 00:16:14,965
I mean, they, they cracked me up the bank.

266
00:16:14,965 --> 00:16:16,315
I remember going to Japan.

267
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:23,900
Years back and you know, you're supposed to tell the bank when you go to Japan or whatever, or you're supposed to tell, you know, someone told me that, well, yeah, you, you sort of, yeah.

268
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,530
So I rang them up and I told them and I said, I'm going to Japan.

269
00:16:27,830 --> 00:16:30,170
And they shut all my credit cards down in Japan.

270
00:16:30,175 --> 00:16:33,440
And actually when you're in Japan, it's real fuck up cause you don't have a phone.

271
00:16:33,445 --> 00:16:35,360
I dunno if it's changed cuz your phones don't work.

272
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,200
So you have nothing suddenly, you know, and I remember we got some change together and I went to this.

273
00:16:39,245 --> 00:16:43,985
Payphone box and I was having to like feed it to Nat wet and I walked through and I was like, listen, you need to not cut me off.

274
00:16:43,985 --> 00:16:44,705
I fucking torture.

275
00:16:44,805 --> 00:16:47,465
I was in Japan and it was literally like beep, beep, beep.

276
00:16:47,465 --> 00:16:50,525
And then, and then it sort of ended and then one of my cards started working.

277
00:16:50,525 --> 00:16:52,565
So they obviously took pity on me and said, fucking now.

278
00:16:52,835 --> 00:17:00,275
But I agree with you and I think that you know that personal service, we say that, you know, we give you this sort of FinTech product that allows you to run things autonomously, but we offer a human service.

279
00:17:00,275 --> 00:17:01,685
We offer a private bank style service.

280
00:17:01,685 --> 00:17:04,785
And even the other night, American client booked too much dollars.

281
00:17:05,175 --> 00:17:10,815
You know, they emailed at half 10, you gave time, picked up the phone, spoke to them, sorted the trade out, you know, and, and, and then it sorted.

282
00:17:10,815 --> 00:17:19,755
And I think really people are now realizing that, you know, and again, if you think about the pricing element to this, people are moving away from a race to the bottom, just cheap FX product.

283
00:17:19,755 --> 00:17:20,885
What they want to do is have service.

284
00:17:20,885 --> 00:17:24,344
They want to be able to know that their product isn't, Ridiculously expensive.

285
00:17:24,405 --> 00:17:24,494
Yes.

286
00:17:24,494 --> 00:17:24,584
Mm-hmm.

287
00:17:25,244 --> 00:17:27,675
But they also want to know they're getting value, they're getting service.

288
00:17:27,675 --> 00:17:36,495
There is a human, there is a team at the end of the phone that someone can pick up and say, Rob, I've got this problem, or I've got this, um, you know, this scenario, can you, can I walk it through with you?

289
00:17:36,645 --> 00:17:38,715
So it's not just about cheapness.

290
00:17:39,135 --> 00:17:39,525
They want hundred.

291
00:17:40,465 --> 00:17:41,314
Hopefully we've.

292
00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:42,300
Bottomed out though.

293
00:17:42,330 --> 00:17:42,419
Yeah.

294
00:17:42,419 --> 00:17:43,310
We don't need no way.

295
00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:44,850
Cause on, on lots of areas.

296
00:17:44,850 --> 00:17:49,500
China brought this incredible reduction in costs into the market with this huge labor force.

297
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:51,510
But I, you know, you see that in logistic.

298
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:52,260
You see it in interesting.

299
00:17:52,260 --> 00:17:52,440
Oh my God.

300
00:17:52,445 --> 00:17:57,149
That's what my entire business is about, is I'm not the cheapest, but I'm good.

301
00:17:57,215 --> 00:17:59,645
If that's not a thing, then I'm fucked.

302
00:17:59,705 --> 00:18:03,574
It's just sad if you buy only on Costco cuz you get what you pay for.

303
00:18:03,574 --> 00:18:05,165
Yeah, but I mean, it is a silly analogy.

304
00:18:05,165 --> 00:18:08,764
We use it, you know, in different formats, but you know, people ask you about price and what have you said?

305
00:18:08,764 --> 00:18:11,915
Well, yeah, but places like HARs wouldn't exist if everyone was shopping.

306
00:18:11,975 --> 00:18:13,865
You know, the cheapest place for, it's the same thing.

307
00:18:13,865 --> 00:18:15,305
Let's go with Fulham somewhere really nice.

308
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:26,850
And now a quick word from our sponsor, business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark, straight Talking Financial and legal advice since 1935.

309
00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:29,640
You can find us@ariclark.com.

310
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,740
What do you think is bullshit in business?

311
00:18:35,010 --> 00:18:35,520
I think the.

312
00:18:35,925 --> 00:18:36,645
Self.

313
00:18:36,645 --> 00:18:38,085
So huge amount of self-promotion.

314
00:18:38,085 --> 00:18:40,335
I don't enjoy, I, I, I don't enjoy LinkedIn.

315
00:18:40,545 --> 00:18:43,395
Um, I don't enjoy people that are so constantly, it's just bollocks.

316
00:18:43,395 --> 00:18:43,725
I'm sorry.

317
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:44,355
I'm gonna be honest.

318
00:18:44,355 --> 00:18:47,685
I hate people go, I'm a founder and I, and these are my 25 struggling points.

319
00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:49,335
It's like, fuck off and just get on with doing a job.

320
00:18:49,335 --> 00:18:49,395
Yeah.

321
00:18:49,455 --> 00:18:50,025
Sorry.

322
00:18:50,265 --> 00:18:51,405
Maybe unpopular opinion.

323
00:18:51,465 --> 00:18:52,905
No, I think that's a popular opinion.

324
00:18:53,265 --> 00:18:57,045
That whole sort of, oh, this is what I did and this I struggled and, and I'm telling you all this stuff.

325
00:18:57,045 --> 00:18:58,485
It's like, yeah, but we don't really care.

326
00:18:58,485 --> 00:18:59,985
Just get on, build your business.

327
00:18:59,985 --> 00:19:02,775
And what do you think LinkedIn should be used as sort of.

328
00:19:03,195 --> 00:19:04,755
Without everyone posting all their bullets.

329
00:19:04,785 --> 00:19:07,215
No, I mean, look at, I, I'm, I'm probably, no, it's okay to say it.

330
00:19:07,305 --> 00:19:07,625
I agree.

331
00:19:07,865 --> 00:19:08,985
I agree about the evangel.

332
00:19:09,045 --> 00:19:11,565
What, but what, what should you, what should you communicate?

333
00:19:11,565 --> 00:19:11,625
Yeah.

334
00:19:11,625 --> 00:19:14,505
I mean, we, we are just starting to do a bit more of it, and I think it's more about.

335
00:19:14,985 --> 00:19:21,675
You know, I think just the solutions is, I mean we, as I said, we are very key on solutions, you know, trying to help clients add value, et cetera.

336
00:19:21,945 --> 00:19:26,475
My client base and my network on LinkedIn don't want to hear about, you know, my struggles as a founder.

337
00:19:26,475 --> 00:19:26,955
Really.

338
00:19:27,135 --> 00:19:31,095
They'd rather know that we've got this, you know, fantastic product that can help them with their whatever.

339
00:19:31,155 --> 00:19:32,175
I think it should just be quite factual.

340
00:19:33,264 --> 00:19:38,094
Um, but equally, you know, I I, I'm not telling people, you know, I'm not, I'm not against people having their, but I will unfollow you.

341
00:19:39,385 --> 00:19:46,165
But I've been to so many talks that are like, you know, you have to spend 10 minutes on LinkedIn every day.

342
00:19:46,435 --> 00:19:48,625
Like, that's the only way that you're gonna get anything out of it.

343
00:19:48,625 --> 00:19:50,875
And I mean, life is frankly too short.

344
00:19:50,879 --> 00:19:51,445
Yeah, no, I agree.

345
00:19:51,445 --> 00:19:55,344
And I, and I think that, you know, for me, you know, I like to sort of do things relatively organically.

346
00:19:55,344 --> 00:19:58,794
You know, I think, you know, being told you have to do these five things as a founder and.

347
00:19:59,175 --> 00:20:02,685
You know, your, your business will be immeasurably approved if you do this, this, and this.

348
00:20:02,685 --> 00:20:03,345
And they say, well, fine.

349
00:20:03,345 --> 00:20:04,095
It might have been for you.

350
00:20:04,095 --> 00:20:05,685
But you know, I think everyone's different.

351
00:20:05,685 --> 00:20:06,435
Yeah, everyone's different.

352
00:20:07,815 --> 00:20:14,505
So now we're gonna move on to our five second rule, which is where we're gonna ask you a series of questions, get to know you a little better.

353
00:20:14,805 --> 00:20:19,875
You have five seconds or so to answer each question, and we're not gonna interrupt or extend that much.

354
00:20:20,295 --> 00:20:22,815
And we've got Antonio in the production seat today.

355
00:20:22,875 --> 00:20:23,175
Big up.

356
00:20:23,175 --> 00:20:23,715
Antonio.

357
00:20:23,745 --> 00:20:24,735
Cue the music please.

358
00:20:24,735 --> 00:20:25,275
Antonio.

359
00:20:26,625 --> 00:20:27,435
And we're off.

360
00:20:27,885 --> 00:20:28,905
What was your first job?

361
00:20:29,865 --> 00:20:32,085
Uh, football coach in Thailand.

362
00:20:32,735 --> 00:20:33,585
Oh, very good.

363
00:20:33,645 --> 00:20:34,665
What was your worst job?

364
00:20:35,504 --> 00:20:38,025
Some form of fruit picking in Mildura in Australia.

365
00:20:38,115 --> 00:20:39,014
I've heard this.

366
00:20:39,375 --> 00:20:40,215
Tell me about banana.

367
00:20:40,215 --> 00:20:41,445
So do I get more than five seconds?

368
00:20:42,555 --> 00:20:44,085
I am liking the way you responded.

369
00:20:44,085 --> 00:20:46,035
Cause it sounds like, um, mastermind.

370
00:20:46,155 --> 00:20:46,875
Yeah, it does.

371
00:20:47,264 --> 00:20:48,855
Um, favorite subject at school?

372
00:20:49,155 --> 00:20:49,995
Sport.

373
00:20:51,195 --> 00:20:52,335
That's not a subject.

374
00:20:52,815 --> 00:20:54,195
What's your special skill?

375
00:20:54,945 --> 00:20:55,185
Ooh.

376
00:20:55,605 --> 00:20:58,125
Um, being dyslexic.

377
00:20:58,665 --> 00:20:58,935
Yeah.

378
00:20:58,965 --> 00:20:59,865
Oh, good answer.

379
00:20:59,925 --> 00:21:01,455
What did you wanna be when you grew up?

380
00:21:01,455 --> 00:21:02,535
Football commentator.

381
00:21:02,835 --> 00:21:03,465
Did you really?

382
00:21:03,555 --> 00:21:04,035
Oh, yes.

383
00:21:04,095 --> 00:21:04,305
Yeah.

384
00:21:04,305 --> 00:21:06,885
But the real ambition of mine was to be a what?

385
00:21:06,885 --> 00:21:07,605
Sports commentator.

386
00:21:07,605 --> 00:21:07,785
Yeah.

387
00:21:08,165 --> 00:21:10,534
He'd broaden it out past football.

388
00:21:10,754 --> 00:21:11,045
Yeah.

389
00:21:11,045 --> 00:21:12,325
I did a poem in on football.

390
00:21:12,514 --> 00:21:12,754
Yeah.

391
00:21:12,805 --> 00:21:13,805
A sports commentator.

392
00:21:13,895 --> 00:21:14,075
Yeah.

393
00:21:14,075 --> 00:21:16,805
My, my brother's, uh, godfather was, uh, Brian Moore.

394
00:21:17,014 --> 00:21:17,555
No way.

395
00:21:17,615 --> 00:21:17,915
Yeah.

396
00:21:17,915 --> 00:21:19,605
And the sports commentator means thanks to be sorry.

397
00:21:19,605 --> 00:21:20,885
Anyway, but yeah, sports commentary.

398
00:21:21,155 --> 00:21:23,345
What did your parents want you to be when you grew up?

399
00:21:23,555 --> 00:21:24,425
Uh, happy, I think.

400
00:21:24,845 --> 00:21:26,345
What's your go-to karaoke song?

401
00:21:26,795 --> 00:21:29,435
Oh, blind me, uh, summer 69 by Brian Adams.

402
00:21:30,115 --> 00:21:30,405
Okay.

403
00:21:30,784 --> 00:21:31,004
So.

404
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,410
16, his Go Sauce.

405
00:21:33,410 --> 00:21:33,470
Yeah.

406
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,180
Sorry, I was just trying to remember it.

407
00:21:35,390 --> 00:21:35,780
Anyway.

408
00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:38,090
Office, dogs, business or bullshit.

409
00:21:38,690 --> 00:21:41,450
I occasionally laugh B, but bullshit.

410
00:21:41,540 --> 00:21:41,900
Yes.

411
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:47,880
But my, my lovely, um, shout out to my team and, and, and Jennifer, she, she has a dog that comes to the office occasionally.

412
00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:49,120
Have you ever been fired?

413
00:21:49,980 --> 00:21:50,200
No.

414
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:53,240
Probably can't be.

415
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,530
Now you've run the businesses.

416
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:54,870
Oh, no.

417
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:59,330
Well, I mean, I, I, I hope I don't have an aggressive takeover at some point, but, uh, no.

418
00:21:59,330 --> 00:22:00,050
Never been fired.

419
00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:00,170
No.

420
00:22:00,860 --> 00:22:02,150
Uh, what's your vice?

421
00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:05,540
Oh, well, if you asked me six months ago, probably different than it's now.

422
00:22:05,630 --> 00:22:08,070
Um, well, it feels like there's a story there.

423
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:10,190
No, no, no more just, you know, kind of.

424
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,570
The, the I, uh, what's my vice?

425
00:22:12,570 --> 00:22:12,960
I dunno.

426
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:13,800
Uh, chocolate.

427
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:14,880
Oh, is it?

428
00:22:14,885 --> 00:22:14,980
Yeah.

429
00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:16,230
I feel you're chocolate Or Harrys?

430
00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:16,900
Harry.

431
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:20,670
I don't, not Harry, but my wife would be laughing cuz she would say Harry Bow HaBO.

432
00:22:20,970 --> 00:22:21,510
I'm a little kid.

433
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:21,780
Really?

434
00:22:21,780 --> 00:22:23,130
That's still all my children's Haribos.

435
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:23,940
Ah, no way.

436
00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:27,340
And, and you and I tap from that, that you, you're drinking less now these days.

437
00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:28,110
Are you?

438
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:36,750
But yeah, but not that I was never a big drinker, but I think I got to the point where I have, you know, with health in general, it's very sort of, you know, I'm doing, I've done some of these methylation tests and understand more about my deficiencies.

439
00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:37,500
What's methylation tests?

440
00:22:37,505 --> 00:22:37,980
Oh, it's.

441
00:22:38,065 --> 00:22:43,495
It's where they, they do a test and you, you understand your sort of DNA deficiencies regarding vitamins and what have you.

442
00:22:43,495 --> 00:22:47,205
So it's quite person personalized health stuff, which is so then you can take the right, supple.

443
00:22:47,205 --> 00:22:47,645
Correct.

444
00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:48,125
Exactly.

445
00:22:48,385 --> 00:22:52,435
So rather than just saying, so for me it's, um, zinc, B12 and a few other things.

446
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,585
And, and actually I've seen some pretty, some pretty remarkable Tell, tell me more.

447
00:22:55,590 --> 00:23:00,745
What you, so is this a specific company you went to or, uh, well, I just found online, but yeah, I mean, a lot of it's.

448
00:23:00,795 --> 00:23:11,565
You know, sort of information I've found through podcasts and, and what have you, I think it's quite topical, you know, 2023 is, uh, people are talking a lot more about sort of, you know, personalized health rather than just sort of generic, oh, I think this is good.

449
00:23:11,565 --> 00:23:14,596
So yeah, they've been talking forever about it, but now it seems we've actually started working.

450
00:23:14,601 --> 00:23:15,035
It's pretty good.

451
00:23:15,095 --> 00:23:21,435
So it stems from really from me where I, I, I've had a bad back for as long as I can remember when boy with it, we've had five buck operations, blah, blah, blah, blah.

452
00:23:21,525 --> 00:23:30,495
So I've always had a bad back and, and I thought just, you know, recently I, with the business and being a dad of three and all the rest of it, you know, I kind of got to the point in life where I sort of realized that actually having.

453
00:23:30,855 --> 00:23:33,135
Three or four glasses of wine, three or four times a week.

454
00:23:33,375 --> 00:23:37,935
Not that you were getting drunk, but it was, that was having an effect on sleep and therefore that was having an effect on decision making.

455
00:23:37,935 --> 00:23:39,555
That was therefore being you a bit grumpier.

456
00:23:39,855 --> 00:23:44,355
And therefore you, you know, and if you bring it back to my back, you know, I think my back wasn't getting better and I was just a, you know, I was a bit

457
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:51,435
overweight, et cetera, and I just thought, well, look, rather than just talking about it, you can, as an adult, making decisions to try and change things.

458
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,225
And if you try and change it for a few months, we Sure that's not your wife talking.

459
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:54,585
No, no, no.

460
00:23:55,035 --> 00:23:58,905
I think, well, I think, again, I think if you don't see results and you stop it, anything, I'll bugger her.

461
00:23:58,905 --> 00:24:00,795
I'm gonna go back to, you know, drinking and whatever.

462
00:24:00,795 --> 00:24:02,955
But I think for me, I really genuinely did see.

463
00:24:03,390 --> 00:24:09,540
Better sleep, weight loss, and my back stop hurting as much, you know, being much more hap you know, train of thoughts, much, much clearer.

464
00:24:09,570 --> 00:24:12,960
It is, you know, and I energy level, yeah, I was, sleep is so important as well.

465
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:13,200
Yeah.

466
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:18,600
I, well sleep, I mean, again, you know, I, I I, I'm a big advocate of, of sleep and, and, and I think it's important.

467
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:25,770
But, but yeah, I think I, I saw the benefits and, and I've really so far reaped the rewards and I've been in, you know, I've been enjoying it.

468
00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:29,550
Um, and therefore, yeah, he, health has become a lot more important to me.

469
00:24:29,955 --> 00:24:31,335
You know, in the last year or so.

470
00:24:31,455 --> 00:24:34,395
Yeah, it's gotta be really good wine and a really nice moment.

471
00:24:34,395 --> 00:24:40,725
And then that's my, well, yeah, I mean, I say to my wife, I said, don't worry, you know, I basically now gonna be exclusively drinking with you and more overseas having nice wine.

472
00:24:40,725 --> 00:24:41,295
I mean, that's fine.

473
00:24:41,295 --> 00:24:46,275
So I haven't sort of stopped drinking, but what I've stopped is just having three glasses of wine when you get home on a Thursday night for the sake of it.

474
00:24:46,565 --> 00:24:46,774
Yeah.

475
00:24:46,774 --> 00:24:46,985
Yeah.

476
00:24:46,985 --> 00:24:48,545
Well that, that's medicating, isn't it?

477
00:24:48,575 --> 00:24:52,445
My brother taught me something that he was taught, never reached for the bottle to medicate.

478
00:24:52,445 --> 00:24:54,295
Only reached to celebrate it.

479
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:54,965
It rhymed.

480
00:24:54,965 --> 00:24:56,045
I can't, I haven't quite got it right.

481
00:24:56,045 --> 00:24:57,455
Again in an American accent.

482
00:24:57,455 --> 00:24:57,975
That would be great.

483
00:24:58,045 --> 00:24:58,935
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

484
00:24:59,014 --> 00:25:00,185
I spoke to your brother the other day.

485
00:25:00,185 --> 00:25:01,145
It shout out to him.

486
00:25:01,145 --> 00:25:02,284
He was, he was fantastic.

487
00:25:02,284 --> 00:25:03,815
But, uh, but no, we still, I still buy wine.

488
00:25:03,815 --> 00:25:04,565
I still love wine.

489
00:25:04,565 --> 00:25:06,815
I still say it was almost a passion still of mine.

490
00:25:07,125 --> 00:25:15,375
But I think, you know, again, just, just that sort of being a father and having young kids and whatever, and just realizing that actually stop moaning about being grumpy.

491
00:25:15,435 --> 00:25:16,215
Try and change it.

492
00:25:20,835 --> 00:25:28,185
So yeah, this is, if you, you want to give us finally how to get hold of you, how to find the company, your 32nd pitch to the world, uh, tell us more.

493
00:25:28,295 --> 00:25:30,875
Come through the channels like, like uh, RI Clark.

494
00:25:30,935 --> 00:25:31,595
We are.

495
00:25:31,595 --> 00:25:33,905
Yeah, we're open business axim fest.com.

496
00:25:33,905 --> 00:25:36,035
We're looking to add value to your international corporate.

497
00:25:36,035 --> 00:25:37,085
Enter its new markets.

498
00:25:37,295 --> 00:25:37,985
So there we have it.

499
00:25:37,985 --> 00:25:42,035
That was this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit, and we'll be back with BWB on Thursday.

500
00:25:42,035 --> 00:25:43,175
Until then, it's channel.