The Deposition, Episode 3 Transcript:

“I Could Be Guilty of a Random Turd Too”

By Hug House Productions

Created, directed, edited, sound designed, and produced by Wil Williams

With Elena Fernández Collins as Mark Bankston

Anne Baird as Alex Spiro

Josh Rubino as Elon Musk

C. N. Josephs as the Videographer

Wil Williams as the Court Reporter

And Zach Orsulak as Mr. Grant

Published on July 11, 2024

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DISCLAIMER

This is not an official transcript of the Elon Musk deposition. You can find that here! All actor asides and editorializing have been marked with asterisks, e.g.:

*WIL*: (snickers)

These lines do not reflect any content in the court transcript; they are us, as people recording, laughing and making jokes as we read.

Shortened link to these transcripts: https://tinyurl.com/depo1-calmyourself

Intro

SFX: Cool, relaxed, sauntering warm-toned electric guitar and drums: “Less Jaunty” by Blue Dot Sessions.

WIL: On March 27th, 2024, Elon Musk was deposed in a libel lawsuit filed by Ben Brody, a 22-year old Jewish political science major at the University of California. When Elon Musk twote that Ben Brody could be a neo-nazi undercover federal agent in a “false flag” situation, Ben Brody was faced with so much harassment he and his family had to leave their homes.

WIL: Musk and his lawyer, Alex Spiro, attempted to retroactively make the deposition confidential. It was not.

WIL: Welcome to The Deposition, a dramatic reading of the public record transcript of Elon Musk’s deposition in full. We promise: this is really real, a real thing that happened in a real lawsuit that exists in real life, word for word – with the addition of some actor editorialization.

WIL: I don’t think you’ll blame us once you’ve listened.

WIL: You can find the official court transcript, the transcript for this episode, and more, in the show notes of this episode.

WIL: Enjoy . . . The Deposition.

Guest Promo

SFX: Jazzy, jaunty, syncopated piano: “Gretsch” by Blue Dot Sessions

WIL: The Deposition is brought to you by another podcast we think you’re gonna love: World Gone Wrong. This fictional advice show is set in an alternate universe where things are even weirder than what we’re used to – so weird that the hosts field questions like, “Should I change my office hours to accommodate the vampire student in my class?” or “How worried should I be about sewer alligators reading maps in downtown Chicago?” or “What is the deal with that guy showing up in all our old pictures?” Anyone else watch O’Grady, the animated show about The Weirdness on Noggin? Where’s my O’grady heads at? Did LITERALLY anyone else watch this show? Okay well World Gone Wrong is like that.

If all of that wasn’t enough to convince you to listen, this show is made by the team that made Unwell, one of my favorite fiction podcasts to date – and, of course, that means this show gives you way more to chew on and ponder than initially meets the eye. It’s not just a silly cozy advice show; it’s also about the nature of changing friendships and the bittersweet impact that can have on us. Here’s the trailer, and as always, you can find links in the show notes.

GUEST PROMO TRANSCRIPT

Transcript courtesy of Audacious Machine Creative

Find the trailer transcript in full here!

Episode 3: “I Could Be Guilty of a Random Turd Too”

MR. BANKSTON: Madam Court Reporter, do you have a count for me on how long we've been on the record?

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is Robie. We've been on the record for 47 and a half minutes.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. We're going to go just a little bit and then we'll take a quick break.

MR. BANKSTON: All right. I want to talk to you about just a couple of weeks before the tweet, okay?

You had given an interview on CNBC talking about your sort of state of mind and feeling about the way you tweet; do you remember giving —

MR. SPIRO: No. I didn't hear — Mark, I didn't hear about the last word. I couldn't catch it.

MR. BANKSTON: Well, let me try it again because I'm not sure what my last word was. But I was describing to you how in a couple of weeks before you made the tweet in this case, you had given an interview on CNBC where you were talking about your state of mind and your tweeting, about how you approach your tweeting with an interview with David Faber. Do you remember giving that interview?

MUSK: I don't remember everything about that interview, but I remember there was such an interview.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Ben Brody's lawsuit has a quote from that interview and I wanted to get your reaction to it to see if this is a genuine thing how you felt, right?

Mr. Faber was asking you about whether you felt the need to restrain yourself tweeting. And the comment that's quoted in Ben Brody's lawsuit is, "I'll say what I want to say and if the consequences of that is losing money, so be it." Do you feel that that statement is a true assessment of your opinions in the summer of 2023?

MUSK: Well, what I'm saying is that sometimes I'll say things that I believe to be accurate in exercising of my freedom of speech rights, and if that means we lose advertisers as a result, then so be it.

*ALL BUT JOSH*: (poorly suppressed laughter)

*ELY*: I'm sorry . . .

SFX: Music cuts out

*ALL*: (bursts of laughter)

*JOSH*: (Musk voice) I just . . .

*ALL*: (more laughter)

*JOSH*: (Musk voice) Can someone please tell me I'm cool? I'll be able to stop if someone just says that I'm cool.

*ANNE*: I could hear — I could hear the breathing speeding up in the background.

*ELY*: Yep! I was like, you can do it, you can do it! Nope. Mm-mm.

*WIL*: When he says "free speech," it's, it's like that —

*ELY*: No no —

*WIL*: — thing of like, "Say the thing!"

*ELY*: — his "exercising of his freedom of speech rights."

*WIL*: Right, sorry. (laughs)

*ELY*: Which is like, the most convoluted series of words . . . alright.

*ANNE*: I — I mean I guess? He can say things.

*JOSH*: And it's amazing seeing someone who grew up with English as their first language speaking it like it's their second language.

*WIL*: Mmhm. Mmhm.

*ELY*: (Pained) Yep . . . one second. Yep. Mmhm. Yep. English is, in fact, his first language.

*WIL*: Oh my god.

*ELY*: (Pained) I suspected it would be.

*WIL*: Yeah.

*ANNE*: We had to confirm.

*ELY*: I did have to confirm, just in case he like, you know, like —

*ANNE*: Right.

*ELY*: — learned Afrikaans, like, as his first language and then switched to English.

*WIL*: But no.

*ANNE*: No.

*WIL*: No.

*ELY*: It's English. I, I figured, but, I just, I wanted to double check. Anyway.

*JOSH*: I think it's kind of you that you gave him the benefit of the doubt like that. (Chuckling) I think that's really nice.

*ELY*: (Pained, deadpan, morose sarcasm) I'm nothing if not compassionate.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: Alright, can you lead me in?

*JOSH*: Okay sure. Um —

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MUSK: Well, what I'm saying is that sometimes I'll say things that I believe to be accurate in exercising of my freedom of speech rights, and if that means we lose advertisers as a result, then so be it.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. I want to ask you about another statement. I want to ask you about some statements that are quoted to you or attributed to you in Walter Issacson's book because I want to make sure that they're accurately attributed to you. And so I want to take a look at a couple of things that were said in Issacson's book. Can we bring up Tab W?

MR. SPIRO: Yeah, I'm — again, I'm going to not allow this. This is — how this has to do with state of mind on June 27th, 2023, I'm not going to allow this.

MR. BANKSTON: Mr. Spiro —

MR. WALTERS: Move on to another subject.

MR. BANKSTON: — it's literally him describing his state of mind for how he approaches these tweets. I don't understand why this quote that we have here in front of us —

MR. SPIRO: Okay. You want to ask him if he said this?

MR. BANKSTON: Yes, that's all I'm asking. Yea, that's it. I mean, I'm not — it's about his state of mind in tweeting.

MR. SPIRO: Well, I'm not so sure. The state of mind cases, I don't know in every count in Texas, but typically do not allow things that happen nontemporarily.

MR. BANKSTON: I mean, I just quoted you the law that says that's not true and you can absolutely —

MR. SPIRO: Okay. Ask him the question.

MR. BANKSTON: Yeah, let's just go —

*SFX*: Zoom log off sound

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Excuse me. Mr. Musk just logged off or got kicked off or something. He's no longer on the Zoom.

MR. BANKSTON: Do you want to take a break real quick and see if we can get him back on?

MR. SPIRO: Yeah, Mark. That's fine.

MR. BANKSTON: I was going to take a break in an hour but I figured we can just take a break right now if you want to do that. Do you want to take 20 minutes?

MR. SPIRO: No. I mean, I don't think we need 20 minutes, Mark. I mean, we're almost done.

MR. BANKSTON: The problem is I'm not trying to be difficult here. I'm really not. The water main broke in our building today so to go use the restroom, I have to walk down the street.

MR. SPIRO: Well, okay. That's a real thing. We'll be back in 10. Hopefully you're back in 10. If you are back in 13, no one's going to be alarmed, but I'm going to try to make it a 10 minute break.

MR. BANKSTON: I understand. You don't need to keep communicating your feelings on the ridiculousness of the endeavor I'm currently engaged in.

MR. SPIRO: Well, it's also a short deposition —

SFX: Music cuts out

*ANNE AND WIL*: (laughter)

*ANNE*: Knowing that we're only halfway through . . .

*ALL*: (laughter)

*ELY*: Mmhm! Mmhm! Mmhm! "The ridiculousness of the endeavor. I am currently engaged in."

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. SPIRO: Well, it's also a short deposition so whether even needing a break is — I don't know it's necessary but okay, let's do it. 10 minutes.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay.

MR. SPIRO: Thanks.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 1:56 p.m.

(OFF RECORD)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at 2:14 p.m.

*ELY*: I — I'm sorry, that was —

SFX: Music cuts out

*ELY*: — exactly 20 minutes.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*JOSH*: Oh my god.

*ELY*: Oh, shit.

*ALL*: (sighs, clearing throats)

*ELY*: Was it 20 or was it —

*ANNE*: It's 18.

*ELY*: — 18, okay —

*WIL*: It's closer to 20 than to 10!

*ELY*: Closer to 20 than to 10, alright.

SFX: Music resumes.

(EXHIBIT 5 ENTERED INTO THE RECORD) MR. BANKSTON: All right. Let's go ahead and put up Tab W. What exhibit number are we on?

MR. GRANT: Mark, we're on Exhibit 5 would be our next one.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Let's go — we'll go ahead and mark this as 5.

MR. BANKSTON: All right. What I want to ask you about, Mr. Musk, is some quotes from Mr. Isaacson's book. And what we have here in front of us is "I've shot myself in the foot so often, I ought to buy some Kevlar boots," Musk joked. Perhaps he ruminated Twitter should have an impulse delay button.

Did Mr. Isaacson — was that an accurate representation he made of an exchange that y'all had?

MUSK: I don't recall that exact exchange.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Do you feel like this statement is a genuine reflection of your feelings back in the summer of 2023 when you were participating with Mr. Isaacson?

MUSK: I certainly — I would say that I — you know, I'm guilty of many self-inflicted wounds.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Would you say that as of last summer that you knew that you had had some difficulties restraining your impulses on Twitter?

*ALL*: (barely restrained chuckles)

*JOSH*: (chuckles, but recovers)

MUSK: No, I wouldn't say that.

MR. BANKSTON: Can I — I'm sorry.

MUSK: I do believe that the bedrock of democracy is freedom of speech and that people should have — we should have freedom of speech if we are to have a functioning democracy and that, you know, actions that result — that have a chilling effect on freedom of speech, like this lawsuit, I think are contrary to the public good.

*WIL*: (suppressed laughs that grow stronger and stronger)

SFX: Music cuts out

*WIL*: (fully laughing)

*ELY*: (laughter) Oh, shit.

*JOSH*: (Elon Musk voice) I just think I should be allowed to do and say whatever I want, and that everyone, uh, should love me.

*ELY*: Mmhm. "And think that I'm cool."

*JOSH*: (Elon Musk voice) Yes. That's a given. Everybody — everybody should definitely think that I'm cool. And uh, divorces should be illegal.

*WIL*: (another burst of laughter, wheezing)

*ELY*: Oh god.

*ANNE*: (Spiro voice) Everyone thinks you're cool, Mr. Musk, don't worry about it.

*ELY*: Don't worry about it.

*ANNE*: (Spiro voice) This is just a hack lawsuit anyway. We're gonna get it thrown out. Don't even worry about it.

*WIL*: (continual laughter, wheezing)

*JOSH*: (Elon Musk voice) I've been collecting engagement rings like — like championship rings from sports — sportsball players.

*ANNE*: The character took over Josh. He's trapped!

*ELY*: He's trapped. Josh lives like this now.

*JOSH*: (Elon Musk voice) I'm so scared.

*ALL*: (laughter)

*JOSH*: (normal voice) He's gone too method!

*ALL*: (laughter)

*ELY*: Alright.

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: I'm wondering if you didn't think that you were having difficulties restraining your impulses on Twitter, why did you believe that maybe Twitter should have an impulse control delay button?

MR. SPIRO: Objection to form.

MUSK: That's what I said. I think that's Isaacson's — those — that's not a quote. That's Isaacson — those are Isaacson's words; not a quote.

*WIL AND ANNE*: (snort chuckles)

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Well, what I was going to — I was asking you about that, maybe you misunderstood my question is was this statement that we see here on the screen, is that consistent with what your feelings were in 2023?

I'm sorry. Hold on. Before we go on, there's something here in the background.

*SFX*: Door opening, footsteps

MUSK: Let me take my — my son just came into the room.

(CONVERSATION WITH REPORTER)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Mark, do you want to go off the record?

MR. BANKSTON: Do we need to? I guess just for a minute, yeah.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 7 2:17 p.m.

(OFF RECORD)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record at 2:18 p.m.

MR. BANKSTON: My question to you, Mr. Musk, was — in this statement that we see on the screen was whether the entire thing reflected your feelings back in 2023. And from what I think I understand from your answer about the second half being Isaacson, is that that second statement does not — that's not an accurate reflection of your beliefs in 2023?

MUSK: Well, it doesn't — it doesn't make sense because we actually do have the ability to edit tweets and put a time delay on tweets.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. So this is something Isaacson may have gotten wrong?

MUSK: That's — that's just Isaacson's impression. I'm simply saying that I — I am — you know, I've certainly done a lot of things that are self-inflicted wounds.

(EXHIBIT 6 ENTERED INTO THE RECORD)

*SFX*: Mouse click

MR. BANKSTON: All right. Let's go ahead and put up Tab X. We'll mark that as Exhibit 6. MR. BANKSTON: And I want to ask you about this quote. It says, "When asked why he doesn't restrain himself, Musk merrily admits that he too often shoots himself in the foot or digs his own grave, but 'life needs to be interesting and edgy' he says, and then he quotes his favorite line from the 2000 movie Gladiator, 'Are you not entertained? Is that not why you are here?'"

*JOSH*: Jesus Christ

SFX: Music cuts out

*ANNE AND WIL*: (laughter)

*ELY*: I can't believe I just had to say that with a straight face. I don't know how Bankston did it.

*JOSH*: (laugh)

*ELY*: Amazing. I'm gonna say that again so it really digs into us.

*WIL*: (laughing, strained) Okay. (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: (laughter)

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: [. . .] and then he quotes his favorite line from the 2000 movie Gladiator, 'Are you not entertained? Is that not why you are here?'"

In this quote, did Isaacson accurately relay the things that you were saying?

MUSK: I — you have to — I've not read the Isaacson book. In fact, I asked Isaacson if I should read it and he recommended that I not.

*WIL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: (snort laugh)

MUSK: Any biography is going to be not the actual person but the actual person as viewed through the lens of the biographer. So I wouldn't say this accurately represents me.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Have you used that quote before from the 2000 movie Gladiator, the "Are you not entertained? Is that not why you are here" to describe your tweeting?

MUSK: In a joking way, but not in a serious way.

MR. BANKSTON: Sure. Because the line here, "Are you not entertained? Is that not why you're here," am I correct that that describes the entertainment value of the controversy that tweets can sometimes create?

MR. SPIRO: Objection to form.

MUSK: Well, I think the — you know, any medium which is not informative or entertaining or just does not capture the interest of the audience will fail to — people will not tune in.

(EXHIBIT 7 ENTERED INTO THE RECORD)

*SFX*: Mouse click

MR. BANKSTON: Sure. Let's move to Tab Y. All right. We're going to mark this as Exhibit 7.

MR. BANKSTON: And this quote says from the Isaacson book, "My tweets are like Niagara Falls sometimes and they come too fast," —

*ANNE*: (snort laugh)

MR. BANKSTON: — Musk says. "Just dip a cup in there and try to avoid the random turds." Do you think that's an accurate quotation from you?

MUSK: That is actually not — not accurate. What I'm referring to is that the things that I see on Twitter, not the — not the posts that I make, are like Niagara Falls. Like — meaning like it's the — if you look at the sheer number of comments, likes, interactions of various kinds, my account is the most interacted with in the world I believe.

*WIL*: (wheezing suppressed laughter)

MUSK: It is physically impossible for, you know, any one person to see all of the interactions that happen. So the only way I can really gauge the interactions is by sampling them essentially.

MR. BANKSTON: Got you. So would it be fair to say that Isaacson made a mistake here and that what this really should say is not my tweets are like Niagara Falls, but everyone else's tweets are like Niagara Falls?

MUSK: Not exactly. It means all of the — all of the — all of what I see when I use the X app are — all the posts that I see and all of the interactions that happen with those posts are far too numerous to — for any human being to consume.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. So when this quote talks about the random turds—

*WIL*: (barely suppressed snort laugh)

MR. BANKSTON: — those aren't your random turds; those are other people's random turds?

SFX: Music cuts out

*WIL*: (breaks, finally. a burst of laughter.)

*JOSH*: God dammit.

*ELY*: I can't believe I just had to say that with a straight face. I don't know how Bankston did it.

*JOSH*: (laugh)

*WIL*: (laughing) In a court of law!

*JOSH*: (weary sigh)

*WIL*: (high pitched squeaky laugh crying)

*ELY*: (as though taking a drag on a cigarette post sex) Ah, it feels so good making other people break.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: 'Cause I've been — LISTEN — If you think I didn't practice this singular conversation before logging on, specifically so that I could say that without breaking down.

*WIL*: I'm so proud of you.

*ELY*: Thank you.

*JOSH*: Oh, my god. You did that fantastically.

*WIL*: Uh, Josh, good luck on this next one!

*ELY*: Yeah, good luck buddy!

*WIL*: (high pitched squeaky laugh crying)

*JOSH*: (weary sigh) Oh, god. Alright. Okay.

*ELY*: Oh, shit. This is the best part of the deposition.

*WIL*: (weary sigh)

*ELY*: Good luck, buddy.

SFX: Music resumes.

MUSK: I mean, I suppose I — I could be guilty of a random —

*JOSH*: (breaks) Ugh —

SFX: Music cuts out

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: How did he . . .

*JOSH*: How is he so much richer than I am?

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ANNE*: Than all of us combined! Like —

*JOSH*: Our society is BROKEN.

*WIL*: Yes.

*ELY*: Our society is extremely broken, uh — I'll tell you how: uh, he's the son of a dude who runs emerald mines.

*WIL*: Yeah!

*JOSH*: Oh, yeah, there we go.

*ELY*: That used slave labor.

*ANNE*: Of course.

*JOSH*: Oh, yeah, you don't make money paying people.

*WIL*: ALLEGEDLY!

*ALL*: (agreement and repetitions of "ALLEGEDLY!")

*JOSH*: Okay. (clears throat) Alright. (deep breath)

*WIL*: You got this.

SFX: Music resumes.

MUSK: I mean, I suppose I — I could be guilty of a random — turd too, but it's — what I'm really referring to is that the only way for me to actually get an understanding of what is happening on the system is to sample it.

Like try to do — just like in statistics, you don't — you do — try to do — you sample a distribution in order to understand what's going on, but you cannot look at every single data point.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. I just want to make sure that you're testifying under oath that this quote was misattributed and that you weren't talking about your own tweets and your own tweets being random turds?

MUSK: Correct.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay.

MUSK: This is — this is — this is not accurate.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. You can take that down.

*SFX*: Mouse clicks

MR. BANKSTON: In general, when thinking about — well, let's start this way: You use your Twitter account to talk about news and current events, right?

MUSK: Yeah.

MR. BANKSTON: And —

MUSK: Among other things.

MR. BANKSTON: And in doing that, you are thus a consumer of news information, a person — like as a person, you consume news information, right?

MUSK: I contribute content and I consume content on the X platform.

MR. BANKSTON: Now, when consuming news content, you believe that Twitter is a better source of information than say traditional news, right?

MUSK: I do.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. You think one problem with traditional news is they're too slow, correct?

MUSK: Their latency, yes, they will often take several days to write an article and then still be incorrect in what they write.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Let's look at Tab G. I want to show you this tweet from the day of the brawl, okay? And you will see that there's someone complaining about using Google News and their complaints about it. And your response is "The thing about traditional news is by the time they actually publish anything, it's not news anymore." That's consistent with what we've just been talking about, right?

MUSK: The — yes, the — the traditional — the legacy news industry is slow to publish and nonetheless wrong in what they publish and with no one to correct them. Whereas when things are published on Twitter, they may be incorrect but they are swiftly corrected.

MR. BANKSTON: Well, for instance, this tweet about Ben Brody, it wasn't swiftly corrected, was it?

MUSK: I suspect that in the comment — comments that followed there were — while I did not see them, there were many rebuttals to what I said.

MR. BANKSTON: Right. But isn't it —

MUSK: And there may be a Community Note — since I asked — since I did tag Community Notes to assess the accuracy of the post, that there may be a Community Note on that as well.

MR. BANKSTON: But you don't know that, right?

MUSK: I don't know that.

MR. BANKSTON: Right. I mean, there's not, I can tell you, but — let me try it this way: Traditional news takes time to publish things whereas on Twitter, you're reading about events before the news can even cover them. Is that right?

MR. SPIRO: What's the relevance of this question to the fourth —

MR. BANKSTON: His state of mind upon the information he relied on it and why he relied on it.

MR. SPIRO: No, I don't see that. I don't see the relevance of this question. Don't answer that.

MR. BANKSTON: I need you to give him an instruction.

MR. SPIRO: I'm instructing you not to —not to answer.

MR. BANKSTON: Mr. Musk, are you going to obey that instruction from your attorney?

MUSK: I think I should listen to what my attorney says.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. You've called yourself a citizen journalist, right?

MUSK: I encourage everyone to be a citizen journalist.

MR. BANKSTON: Right. And, in fact, you advocate getting information about news and events from anonymous people on Twitter.

MUSK: I think it's important to allow people to be anonymous so that they are able to report things accurately and not face repercussions from their employer or from others.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. You can and do use your Twitter account to promote the company's interest, the company being X Corp?

MUSK: Yes.

MR. BANKSTON: The engagement — well, let's talk about it this way: Before you ever purchased Twitter, you were a popular user on the platform, right?

MUSK: Yeah, I believe I — I may have been — I think I was either the first or second most interacted with account on the platform before the acquisition.

MR. BANKSTON: Now, before the acquisition, Twitter was getting a free benefit from the user engagement that you created, correct?

MUSK: Essentially, yes.

MR. BANKSTON: And then now after the acquisition, that's no longer true; you personally benefit from the engagement you create because it's your company, right?

MR. SPIRO: Objection. Instruct you not to answer. You can tell me the relevance of — of these questions —

MR. BANKSTON: I need to — I need to establish the level of care that he was required to have and I need to determine whether this is purely a personal Twitter account or whether this Twitter account is intended to do something else.

MR. SPIRO: I don't see the relevance of the question. I'm going to instruct him —

MR. BANKSTON: Well, it's going to affect his level of care.

MR. SPIRO: Yeah, I disagree so I'm going to instruct him not to answer.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. So I'm just going to make it clear for the record, that in order to establish under scripts the requisite level of care that I'll need to be proving in this case, I've been unable to ask questions that will help me ascertain —

MR. SPIRO: Well, what question are you trying to ask that goes to level of care as in the case law?

MR. BANKSTON: I'm trying — because the level of care will depend on the purpose of the speech itself, whether it has a commercial or noncommercial basis, whether it is a purely private communication, whether it is a communication made by one who is engaged in spreading media for profit. All of these things and whether it has a commercial character is all relevant —

MR. SPIRO: But you — but it's in the record, he owns Twitter. He owns X.

MUSK: I think I can answer this question —

MR. BANKSTON: Hold on. You may be right. Hold on. Mr. Musk, hold on. There's no question to you.

Alex, you may be right about that. If you're willing to just go ahead and stipulate he is the owner of Twitter, that is not a purely personal account, that account also advances the interest of the company, we're done and I won't have to ask any more questions.

SFX: Music cuts out

*WIL*: (laughter)

*ALL*: (laughter)

*WIL*: (as Bankston's POV) Yeah if you wanna just accept that, then sure! Sure, I'll take it! (continual cry laughing)

*ELY*: Mmhm.

*JOSH*: Amazing.

*ELY*: (as Bankston's POV) Yes. If that's — if that's —

*ELY AND WIL*: (as Bankston's POV) If that's what you want!

*ELY*: I mean sure! That's — Bankston listened to Spiro and went . . . "Ohhh???"

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*WIL*: (as Bankston's POV) Yeah sure if you wanna give that one to me for free I'll take it!

*ELY*: (as Bankston's POV) I'll take it, bitch. Nothing else in this whole time has come for free; it has come at the cost of my sanity. Oh, fuck that's good.

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. SPIRO: Well, Mr. Musk said he wants to — I'll let him answer the question if you want to rephrase it.

SFX: Music cuts out

*ELY*: (snort laugh)

*ANNE*: (snort laugh)

*WIL*: (chuckling)

*ELY*: That's Spiro listening back to Bankston tell back to him what he just did.

*WIL*: Uh huh! Uh huh! Uh huh!

*ELY*: And going —

*ANNE*: "Well . . . oh shit . . . oh no . . ."

*ELY*: — "Wait a second — I'm a fucking idiot."

*ALL*: (laughter)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: Sure.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. So let's go back to the question that we had, which was now that you've acquired the company, Twitter is no longer getting a free benefit. I mean, this benefits you as well, your engagement that you create for the company; is that correct?

MUSK: Not necessarily. So I — I believe my posting has really remained unchanged before and after the acquisition. The — and going back to the sort of self-inflected wounds, the Kevlar shoes, I think there's — I've probably done — I may have done more to financially impair the company than to help it —

SFX: Music cuts out

*JOSH*: (breaks) Aw, goddammit! I got so far!

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*WIL*: (continual high pitched squeak crying laughing)

*ELY*: Oh, god. "I may have."

*JOSH*: Mayyyybe.

*ELY*: Maybe!

*ANNE*: "Maybe I didn't . . . ehhhh . . ."

*ELY*: And now it's on the record.

*JOSH*: (Elon Musk voice) I really — to be fair, I really thought white supremacists had more money.

*ELY*: Yep. That's a valid statement.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: Fuck.

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MUSK: Not necessarily. So I — I believe my posting has really remained unchanged before and after the acquisition. The — and going back to the sort of self-inflected wounds, the Kevlar shoes, I think there's — I've probably done — I may have done more to financially impair the company than to help it — but certainly I — I do not guide my posts by what is financially beneficial but what I believe is interesting or important or entertaining to the public.

So that's, you know, if — in this specific case, if I wanted to have it be — receive a lot of distribution, I would have made it a primary tweet or a quoted tweet, which I did not. It was simply a reply. The replies get 100 times less attention than a primary tweet. So this was certainly not any attempt to generate advertising revenue. In fact, generally advertisers will not want to advertise with content that is contentious.

SFX: Music cuts out

*ELY*: (breaks) Good job, Josh.

*JOSH AND WIL*: (chuckle)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: Well, I understand you said that this was a reply and that less people saw it but — MUSK: By 100, yes.

MR. BANKSTON: You do understand that the amount of people who saw this, who have viewed this tweet is equivalent to all 30 major league baseball stadiums filled to capacity? You wouldn't dispute that? I mean, we're talking over a million people.

MR. SPIRO: Objection to form.

MUSK: Yeah, that's actually — that may seem like a large number, but it is not compared to the fact — I believe there are something on the order of five to eight trillion views per year so a million is really —

MR. BANKSTON: Not a big deal?

MUSK: — hit or miss, yeah.

MR. BANKSTON: Not a big deal that this went out to that many people?

MUSK: Correct. And more of a — this is the kind of thing where advertisers, when it's contentious, will not advertise, which means we do not get revenue from it.

MR. BANKSTON: After you took over the company, have you ever given any instructions or taken any steps to have users see your tweets in particular more often?

MUSK: No. There was an error at one point that caused for one day people to see my posts, but the rules apply to me otherwise as they do to everyone else. There are no special rules for me.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. I want to talk about —

MUSK: I should mention that our algorithm is open source as is the — meaning anyone can see the code for the recommendation algorithm. They can see that there's nothing special for me, and the Community Notes, which is I think the best fact-checking system on the internet also is open source as is all the data.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. I want to talk about on the day you had this tweet, on June 27th, I want to talk about if in your mind you were aware or considering any warnings you had been given say in the past few months about the level of care you were showing in your tweets.

So I want to ask you some specific things about that, okay? And so the time period I want you to concentrate on is the approximately six months leading up to this tweet, okay? So the end of 2022 up to mid 2023.

MUSK: Yes.

MR. BANKSTON: And during that time, I want to ask you about some situations, if people have ever voiced concern about the level of care you were showing when tweeting about factual events.

And the first one I want to ask you about is do you remember tweeting a conspiracy theory about the attack on Paul Pelosi?

MUSK: I do remember replying, again, not — a reply is — if you want something to get attention, you do it as a primary post. A reply will get actually somewhere between 100 and 1,000 times less attention. And I — I read an article in a newspaper or what claimed to be a newspaper which seemed to be odd, and I did that as a reply, which is a low visibility post.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. All I just need to know is if you remembered that event happening, because my question to you is —

MUSK: Yes.

MR. BANKSTON: — do you remember, was there anybody in your life — and let me preface this, not your lawyers. I don't want to know if your lawyers talked to you about anything. Any conversations you had with your lawyers are totally private, okay?

But are there any conversations you had with anybody in your life where they warned you about the level of care you were showing when tweeting about factual events relating to that Pelosi tweet?

MUSK: I don't recall anything relating — anyone saying anything related to that Pelosi post. But that was — that was the reply post I think just wondering if there's more to this picture than met the eye. And based on a — what I thought was I think the Santa Monica Times or something like that. That turned out to be somewhat of a bogus publication and I deleted the post shortly thereafter, like within a few hours.

(EXHIBIT 8 ENTERED INTO THE RECORD)

*SFX*: Mouse click

MR. BANKSTON: All right. Can we bring up Tab Z. We're going to be marking this — I believe this is Exhibit 8. This is another quote from Mr. Isaacson's book I want to ask you about, and it's referring to the Pelosi tweet. And it states Musk's tweet showed his growing tendency like his father to read wacky fake news sites purveying conspiracy theories, a problem that Twitter had writ large. He quickly deleted the tweet, apologized, and later said privately it was one of his dumbest mistakes. It was also a costly one.

Now, I understand some of this is Mr. Isaacson's opinion, but in terms of the facts he described, I believe you've already confirmed for me this is correct, that you deleted the tweet and apologized for it; is that right?

MUSK: I don't think I have a growing tendency to read fake news sites. I aspire to read the most accurate information possible.

SFX: Music cuts out

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: (sarcastically) Yeah, that seems accurate. Oh boy.

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: Sure.

SFX: Music cuts out

*JOSH*: (snort laugh)

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ANNE*: "Sure."

*JOSH*: Nope, that's what broke me.

*ELY*: You're welcome. Fuck.

*WIL*: Oy yoy yoy.

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: Sure. I'm just asking you about these — I understand that Isaacson's going to characterize it and other people are going to have their opinions too. What I'm asking is the factual information in this tweet, that you deleted it and you apologized, that's correct?

MUSK: That is correct.

MR. BANKSTON: Did you later say privately it was one of your dumbest mistakes?

MUSK: I don't recall — I've made some pretty dumb —

*JOSH*: Mmph — (breaks)

SFX: Music cuts out

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: Mmhm. Mmhm.

SFX: Music resumes.

MUSK: I don't recall — I've made some pretty dumb — mistakes. I'm not sure this would qualify as one of the dumbest.

*ANNE*: (giggle)

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Would you say it's a mistake?

MUSK: Yes, that's why I deleted it —

MR. BANKSTON: Okay.

MUSK: — and apologized.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. If — you can take that down.

*SFX*: Mouse click

MR. BANKSTON: If tweeting of false conspiracy theories about the Pelosis, who are public figures, is a mistake, isn't tweeting a false conspiracy theory about a noncelebrity, powerless guy like Ben Brody, isn't that even worse?

MR. SPIRO: Objection. And can you explain to me what the relevance of that is?

MR. BANKSTON: Yeah, because he's going to give me an answer which is really relevant to his feelings on actual malice.

MUSK: Well, the post that you're referring where I actually asked for it to be fact-checked, you know, I think that is — I don't — I don't — I actually don't state that anything is anything, but simply that — you know, from that post that it looks like it could be. And then I request Community Notes to fact-check.

MR. BANKSTON: But wait, in your Pelosi tweet, didn't you say there's a tiny possibility that this could be more than it seems and that was a mistake, so why isn't it a mistake to say this is probably the case with this kid? Why is that different?

MR. SPIRO: Objection; improper question.

MUSK: Well, I asked for it to be fact-checked by Community Notes.

MR. BANKSTON: Right. So I mean basically your thesis is that — you're depending on someone to come along after the fact and determine whether you said is true or false; is that right?

MUSK: I'm asking to be corrected.

MR. BANKSTON: Right. After the fact. After it's already been said and out to the world, right?

MUSK: Well, how are you supposed to be corrected if it's not already said?

*WIL*: (suppressed laugh that slowly grows stronger)

SFX: Music cuts out

*ELY*: Mmhm. Mmhm.

*JOSH*: (Laugh)

*ELY*: Yup. That's valid. That's — that's definitely . . . okay. I have so much despair. Deep.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: Deep in my heart.

*JOSH*: I will not do a retake of that line because I do not think I can ever do it better than what I just did.

*ALL*: (agreement and affirmation)

*ELY*: No retake on that one, it was —

*JOSH*: I refuse.

*WIL*: It was perfect.

*ELY*: — it was perfect.

*WIL*: He really thought that he had something there!

*JOSH*: (wistfully) Oh.

*ELY*: He really thought that he had something there, you know?

*WIL*: Like there's a chance that, because we don't have the court audio or video or anything like that, there's a chance that he asked that as a genuine question, right? Like —

*ELY*: Right.

*WIL*: —like how else? But we know the fuck he didn't, right, like? (Laughs)

*JOSH*: Yeah.

*ELY*: Yeah.

*WIL*: ALLEGEDLY!

*ELY*: ALLEGEDLY!

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: Thank you, Mr. Musk. I think you already answered this, but let me make sure I — I heard you correctly. Did you recognize in the summer of 2023 that you had a tendency to read wacky fake news?

MUSK: I don't think — I have a tendency to try to find — I aspire to be as truthful and accurate as possible and

SFX: Music cuts out

*ELY*: (burst of laughter as Josh continues)

MUSK: — and to that — that is actually the goal of the X,

*ELY*: (laughing) I'm sorry, I can't, I had to take my earphones out.

MUSK: formerly known as Twitter system —

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: (still laughing) Couldn't listen to this.

*ALL*: (snort laughs)

*ELY*: (still laughing) Oh, god. HEE HEE! I'm gonna drink some water.

*ANNE*: You were doing so good. You held it for so long.

*WIL*: You did. You did a great job, Josh.

*ELY*: I'm so sorry, buddy.

*JOSH*: No, I, I . . . I'm right there with you.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: Okay, Josh go ahead.

*JOSH*: Okay. Uh —

*WIL*: Good luck.

*JOSH*: (wheezing laughter)

*WIL*: Sorry.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*JOSH*: (still laughing) I had it! Goddammit!

*WIL*: Sorry!

*ALL*: (laughter)

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MUSK: I don't think — I have a tendency to try to find — I aspire to be as truthful and accurate as possible and is to be the most accurate and timely source of information on the internet. That's why we put so much effort into Community Notes, which I'm confident is the best fact-checking system on the internet.

*ALL*: (barely contained laughter)

SFX: Music cuts out

*ELY*: (through cry laughing) Josh, did you speed up so you could get through all of that without breaking into laughter?

*JOSH*: I didn't realize that I'd sped up! Let me try again —

*ALL*: No no no!

*WIL*: No it was great! It was great!

*ELY*: It's just that I know you too well.

*WIL*: Yes.

*ALL*: (burst of laughter)

*ELY*: I know how you act too well.

*JOSH*: It was definitely like, "I can't, I can't even look at the breaks, I have to just go."

*ALL*: (affirmations)

*ELY*: I just know you and your acting too well. I could hear it.

*WIL*: Uh huh. Uh huh.

*ELY*: Nobody else is gonna hear it. You're fine.

*WIL*: Well, until they hear us talk about it explicitly on this podcast.

*ELY*: Sorry buddy.

*WIL*: Beautiful take. You did a really good job.

*ELY*: Good job buddy.

*JOSH*: Oh, my god.

*ALL*: (clearing throats, taking breaths, preparing to go back in.)

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: Did you have anybody in your life who approached you to give you any warnings about the level of care you were showing while tweeting about factual events concerning the tweets that you were making about Yoel Roth?

MUSK: No, I don't recall that.

MR. BANKSTON: Nobody talked to you about that?

MUSK: Not that I recall.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. What about — same question —

MUSK: Is there something specific about Yoel Roth that you want — you want to ask about?

MR. BANKSTON: Yes, very specific.

MUSK: Okay.

MR. BANKSTON: Very specifically, were there people in your life — in your life at all who approached you to warn you about the level of care you were showing when tweeting about Yoel Roth?

MUSK: I don't recall anyone doing that.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Same question for Haraldur Thorleifsson. Do you remember who that is?

MUSK: Yes.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Did anybody warn you about your tweets about him and the level of care you were showing?

MUSK: Well, he — he actually responded to me directly and I corrected myself, and I would say that at this point he and I are friends.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay.

SFX: Music cuts out

*WIL*: (burst of laughter) I just — so?! (incoherent half-rambling laughter)

*ELY*: Mmhm.

*JOSH*: (Elon Musk voice) I helped him defeat his brother Loki, and assume the throne of Asgard. That's who we're talking about, right?

*WIL*: (still crying laughing) Any opportunity he has to say, "Well, this person thinks I'm cool now. They think I'm — we're friends."

*ELY*: "They think I'm cool now. We're friends."

*WIL*: "I say that we're friends. To me, we're friends."

*ANNE*: I don't know that that's true, Mr. Musk!

*WIL*: (still crying laughing) No!

*ANNE*: I'm pretty sure this guy is not your friend!

*WIL*: (still crying laughing) And also like —

*ELY*: Nope.

*WIL*: (still crying laughing) — who cares?!

*JOSH*: This is —

*WIL*: (still crying laughing) It's so irrelevant!

SFX: Music resumes.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. Apart from Mr. Thorleifsson, did anybody bring their concerns to you about those tweets?

MUSK: Not that I recall. I mean, if there were — I think there was some people that replied that they thought he was a great guy, and I was like, okay, I'll take that under consideration, and I think he is a great guy.

MR. BANKSTON: A month before the events of this case with the neo-Nazi mass shooting in Allen, Texas —

MR. SPIRO: Look, I'm going to object again. I was going to let you do a couple of these because it's not worth necessarily arguing about each and every one, even though I don't think it's relevant.

But you're now backdooring all this stuff in through the fourth category that the judge proposed when in the judge's instructions they very much limit the tweets in question in this case. And so we're not going to do any more on it.

So I'm instructing him not to answer any more questions about any other tweets in this case for the rest of this deposition. You can go to the judge if you don't like that instruction.

MR. BANKSTON: Let's put it on the record that your statement is just incorrect. The order does not limit me to the tweets in this case —

MR. SPIRO: We disagree. We disagree whether — whether the judge is sitting here — we disagree whether if the judge was sitting here would allow you to go through each and every tweet so.

MR. BANKSTON: Okay. I'm going to start over before you interrupted me, and I am going to go ahead and state what I said I need to put on the record. Again, this is not for you; this is for the judge, right?

I am now being told that there are events that I want to talk to him about about whether he's been given warnings about his level of care. These are not about tweets in the case. These are about the topic on his state of mind at the time the alleged defamatory statement was allegedly published, and warnings he may have received in advance of that tweet about the level of care that he was habitually showing are clearly relevant.

I've now been told I'm not going to be allowed to ask any more questions about that, so I'm going to have to move on.

Madam Court Reporter, can you let me know where we are on time — or videographer?

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Yes. You're at one hour and 20 minutes exactly.

Outro

SFX: Cool, relaxed, sauntering warm-toned electric guitar and drums: “Less Jaunty” by Blue Dot Sessions.

WIL: The Deposition is made by Hug House Productions. You can find our work at Hug House dot Productions. Our showrunner, director, and editor is Wil Williams, who also plays the Court Reporter, and also is me. Sam Bankston is played by Elena Fernández Collins. Alex Spiro is played by Anne Baird. Elon Musk is played by Josh Rubino. The videographer is played by C. N. Josephs. Mr. Grant is played by Zach Orsulak. Music by Blue Dot Sessions. Justice for Ben Brody.

WIL: Please don’t sue us.