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Hey, hey.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be.

Scott Luton and Marty Parker here with you on Supply Chain now.

Welcome to today's live stream.

Hey, Marty, how you doing today?

Fantastic.

Glad to be here at campus of University of Georgia for the first time.

That is right.

And that reminds me of the outstanding webinar that you hosted.

You helped us host late last year, right?

Yeah, that was terrific.

Terrible weather, but we had a lot of fun together.

Oh, man.

Cutting edge media resources there at the University of Georgia, amongst other things.

Hey folks, it's the Buzz, you know, where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news developments across global supply chain and business, including news you can use.

A lot of great topics here today.

The power of supply chain storytelling.

Hey, how one beverage giant plans to navigate the tricky tariff and trade landscape and workforce trends in the manufacturing industry.

And really across global supply chain.

All of that, Marty.

Plus, at about 12:15pm Eastern time, we've got a special panel joining us.

David Sadler, CFO and COO with RBW Logistics.

They're on the move.

And Kimberly Evans, CEO at Relations Research.

We're going to be talking leadership, workforce transformation and a whole bunch more with them both.

Marty, should be an outstanding show, huh?

Yeah, I'm really excited.

I am too.

I am too.

You contain your excitement a lot better than I do.

Well, I think leadership and supply chain is often overlooked.

We get focused on the technical things.

And so I think it's going to be great to talk about the people aspects.

I am with you.

I am with you.

Folks, two things before we get going here.

Number one, give us your take in the comments, whether you're tuned in via LinkedIn, YouTube, X, Facebook, Twitch, whatever the heck Twitch is these days.

I'm still learning, folks.

No matter.

Let us know what you think.

And secondly, if you enjoy the show today, we'd love for you to share it with a friend and your network.

They'll be glad you did.

Okay, Marty, we got a lot to get into before our guests join us.

You ready to go?

Let's do it.

All right.

I'm going to start by sharing a publication that dropped over the weekend.

Our regular Buzz listeners will know that is with that said, our almost weekly newsletter.

It was jam packed with all kinds of stuff including our upcoming events.

But I'm going to dial it in on three things Three things, Marty, that we focused on in with that said.

First, the power of supply chain storytelling.

Just like the graphic shares there, everyone has a story.

Indeed.

How about this nugget that Noha Samara with Gartner shared with us last week in a great webinar quote In a study on retaining information, 63% of people remembered stories while only 5% remembered statistics.

If you aren't investing in your storytelling skills, whether you're in supply chain or really any other field, you are missing out big time.

Second, key takeaways from Manifest 2025 from out in Vegas, folks.

We brought like, I don't know, 3,000 key takeaways from folks across industry, including what our friend, the good old Tevin Taylor shared quote focusing on being customer centric is no longer a tagline but a must for any company handling supply chain business.

All right, so Marty, before I share the third storytelling and really not lip service customer centricity, but action driven, your thoughts.

So you know, on storytelling, I covered myself in gasoline for the first time this weekend and you had had a post a couple of days ago about that so it was relevant timing wise.

But in quality management I teach about you can only understand quality products and services by understanding the customer.

The customer ultimately determines whether you have a quality product or service.

And so you've got to have your business focused on them and focused on ways to understand what the customer wants and needs.

Well said Marty.

Like, well, don't government gasoline.

So folks, there's more to that story which we'll have to get out in a future episode because I got a kick out of what Marty shared and he brings that up because I'll share it in with that said, my own experience where I tried to blow up a Houston area truck stop basically right.

So you have to tune in to with that said to learn exactly what we're talking about and let us know what you think of this edition.

Okay?

Hey, one more thing before I move on from with that said, because we also dropped big news Marty, about our friends at Easypost and how they launched Luma, the most reliable shipping APIs, taking things to the next level with Luma, the first multi carrier shipping AI trained by billions with a B of historical shipments to revolutionize the way you ship, folks.

With Luma you get performance insights, predictive simulations to test those carrier combinations and automated selection to guarantee the best label every single time.

Now our friends at easypost tell us it's not just shipping, it's smarter shipping.

So LUMA is now live and it's set to transform your shipping strategy.

If you want to be ahead of the game, check out the new product page and kick the tires on Luma today.

We're dropping a link right there in the chat.

Good stuff.

I'll tell you.

Innovation abounds.

Marty Parker, Innovation abounds.

With all of that tech and otherwise.

It's an exciting time to be in global supply chain, huh?

Absolutely.

I love how that is optimizing real time.

It used to be we had to gather all that data and do it offline.

But love the company's doing that real time.

I'm with you.

I remember spreadsheet and different carriers options.

All this stuff back in the days that was not fun.

So anyway, we got to get to work.

We got one story we want to cover before Kimberly and David join us.

Right.

And and this is an interesting one I think anything dealing with Coca Cola I find very, very interesting.

So folks, it's being reported that trade negotiations are expected to intensify this week between the U.S.

canada and Mexico as that March 4 deadline is coming quickly.

25% tariffs, as you all may know, are on hold at the moment and we're going to see what those negotiations bring.

But in the meantime, back to the Coca Cola company.

Interesting read here from our friends at Supply Chain Dive where they talk about what this beverage giant, how they're going to look at navigating this tricky environment as these tariff policies unfold.

And at the core of this read at least Marty and this isn't meant to be their holistic approach, but this is interesting when dealing with packaging.

The company CEO James Quincy shared a couple weeks ago that the organization will adjust its packaging approach based on what tariff policies get implemented.

Could be less cans and more plastic.

In fact could be returnable glass bottles is more and more an option and a growing option for the company.

Quincy says, quote, I think we are in danger of exaggerating the impact of the 25% increase in the aluminum price relative to the total system.

It is not insignificant but it is not going to radically change a multibillion dollar US Business.

It would be better not to have it.

But we are going to manage our way through.

End quote.

And one last point for I get Marty's thoughts here.

As a 2023 aluminum and steel accounted for about of the company's packaging mix, plastic accounts for about half those refillable glass bottles they account for.

What may surprise many surprised me a little bit, 8.8% and Coca Cola sees a tremendous opportunity to grow that program in markets around the world.

Okay, Marty, your thoughts on what the Coca Cola company is expecting to do.

So big companies definitely have to deal with these costs and the options are lower their costs or increase price, and folks don't want to see that.

But I am just thrilled to go back to my childhood and these glass bottles.

I frankly never understood why we got rid of them in the first place.

You could collect the bottles, make 10 cents a bottle, and then it would get recycled and used again.

So maybe some good will come out of it.

I think switching to plastic is not good, but switching to glass, that would be outstanding.

I'm with you.

What a tremendous opportunity.

I've hated to see how global recycling shifts have eliminated our ability to reuse glass.

Marty, that seems like it'd be a terrible development, huh?

Well, and I'll add that the product is better if we could get rid of the tariffs on sugar and get sugar back in the Coke and get it in glass bottles nice and cold in the refrigerator.

There's nothing that tastes like a Coke glass bottle.

Cold with sugar instead of.

It is the best, Marty.

My goodness.

As I was getting ready for the buds here today, I was disappointed that I hadn't gotten out in front of the story and, yes, grabbed a nice glass Coca Cola to kind of crack and enjoy on the buzz because it's so true.

It tastes.

I don't know what it is.

It just tastes so much better when you pour it out of that iconic glass bottle.

Okay, so we're gonna keep a finger on the pulse, not only of what Coca Cola is doing, but more importantly, over the next few weeks as these trade negotiations continue and we'll see where all after the dust all settles, we'll see what truly gets implemented.

Okay, so, Marty, not only do we have this outstanding segment coming up here with Kimberly and David in just a minute, but on the other side, we're going to give an update on Rivan.

If y'all been tracking the news or listening to the buzz, y'all know I'm a bit fascinated by the Rivan story as it continues to unfold.

So stick around for that towards the end of the buzz here today.

Okay, Marty, I'm going to introduce our two guests here today.

You buckled in?

Ready to go?

Let's do it.

You're always ready, Marty Parker.

Always ready.

All right, so a couple of outstanding guests that are set to join us here in just a few seconds.

They include Kimberly Evans, who serves as CEO of Relations Research.

Kimberly brings more than two decades of leadership experience to the table as well as specific expertise in transformations, organizational design, and much, much more.

Now she's going to be joined by David Sadler, who serves as chief financial officer and chief operating officer with RBW Logistics, a logistics and supply chain solutions provider.

Now, David has held a variety of senior financial positions at organizations such as Giotis Diversified, Duke Energy and Earthlink.

And he brings a deep understanding of industry to the discussion.

We have quite the one, two punch.

Let's welcome in Kimberly Evans and David Sadler.

All right.

Hey.

Hey, Kimberly, how you doing today?

Good.

Glad to be here.

We are glad you're here as well.

And David, how are you doing?

I'm doing great, Scott.

Thanks for having me.

Welcome, welcome in.

All right, so, Marty, we got so much to get to with Kimberly and David.

We're going to be talking about the people factor.

We're also going to be talking about real transformation that they've been working on for quite some time.

So it's going to be a great conversation.

Marty, you know, though, we gotta start with the fun warmup question, right, Marty, we can't let folks down.

So to that end, Kimberly, we're gonna start with you because we hear that in that little bit of free time you get each week when you're out there moving mountains that you love to cook in your free time, and especially if it's Mediterranean cuisine.

Is that right?

That's right, yeah.

That's the way I manage stress and enjoy my free time is spending it in the kitchen.

Oh, that sounds a lot of Greek food.

Yeah.

Do you sneak in a little glass of wine as you're enjoying that cooking therapy?

I've been known to do that.

Me too.

Me too.

It makes it extra fun.

Well, great to have you here.

Look forward to getting some recipes from you.

All right, so, David, we're getting to know you a little bit in the pre show and we understand, I mean, you've got a full plate there at RBW Logistics, which has been growing left and right, but at home you've got a family.

You got four kids.

So a big old family.

What's one of the things you love doing with your kids on the weekends?

Well, first off, most weekends are like three to four soccer games on a Saturday.

Right.

So there's always that fun.

And you got to make sure you take the full wagon in the cooler and everything so you can last a full day if time permits.

There's Legos with my son or Minecraft or something of that nature.

And then time with the daughters to help them with homework and.

Or take them out and work out somewhere or something of that nature.

So if I'm not working, I'm with the family.

It's just full on right now with forward home.

Oh man, David I love hearing that.

I really do.

But Marty in particular, between delicious Mediterranean cuisine, I can see Kimberly, you know, with the chef's hat, with the chef's kiss in the kitchen.

Right.

And then David, I heard sports logistics, that we all have been there and done that.

What'd you hear there?

Marty?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I heard Kimberly liking to cook.

I like to cook as well, but also like to eat.

So we'll have to get together sometime, Kimberly, to do that together.

And then I miss those days of running to the soccer games and all that.

So David, just really cherish every minute of that because, boy, it goes by quickly.

Billion dollar advice and it's so true.

Marty, David and Kimberly, it reminds me of the old phrase I say a thousand times the days are long but the years are short.

There's so much truth in that.

But regardless, great to have y'all here and I appreciate you sharing a little bit more about your free time.

So let's get into a few topics here today.

How about we start speaking of billions?

How about we start with a trillion dollar question, how can we thrive in this highly disruptive and fast changing world?

That is quite the question.

And it's always been the question in the mind of business and especially supply chain leaders.

But given the velocity of business in this modern era, I would say it's become an even bigger question and tougher challenge.

One answer to finding more success.

I think it's an easy one, at least in terms of it being the answer.

And that's our people, right?

Our people are incredibly talented people.

And I love this read here from the World Economic Forum that focuses on organizations, especially in the manufacturing sector, putting their people first.

So I'm going to try to give a few highlights now.

Marty and Kimberly and David and to all y'all folks out there watching, listening, this was a tough and deep article to try to summarize in a couple minutes.

So y'all check out the article.

We're going to drop the link there in the chat.

So.

So recent research from World Economic Forum shows that over 50% of leaders cite skills gaps and talent attraction as big time barriers to transformation.

Some say that it's never been harder to attract, retain and engage workers.

Why?

Well, the article points to five root causes.

Let's count them.

Number one, overall talent shortages.

Number two, widening skill gaps.

Number three, insufficient rewards, recognition and Incentives, number four, struggling supervisors and number five, ever evolving worker needs.

But research also shows that companies that invest in their talent in a variety of ways are seeing productivity and stability improvements as well as an increased competitive advantage.

They lay out six of those ways in terms of how companies are investing in their talent in this article to include perhaps my favorite one, folks creating a culture and work experience that offers a compelling employee value proposition.

Love that.

So, Kimberly, I want to get your thoughts not only on this research, but really the greater and the overall talent challenge.

Yeah, I think that we're living in a time when we need to really rethink the approach with talent.

And I love that this article pointed out work design as a number one in their six recommendations because when we think about talent, we don't normally think about the power of of work design to serve as a blueprint for really understanding what the value proposition for the business can be from the role, but also what the value proposition can be for the talent in that role.

And it's such an underutilized lever.

Likewise, I think we've got to rethink the relationships with talent.

I think it's time to look at how we're distributing accountability, how we're distributing power dynamics in the relationship.

There's a lot of talk about empowerment, but very little talk about how to move away from that old rigid hierarchy and command and control.

Kimberly, Spot on.

And before I move to David, Marty, there is a lot of talk about all that stuff out in industry and not nearly as much action as we need now.

It's just one reason we don't have all that action, is we don't have the answers and the know how in terms of how to make gains and create that compelling value prop that Kimberly was referencing.

Your quick thoughts before I shift over to David?

Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of different ways you can measure it to see that what you're doing works.

But one comment about what Kimberly said is, you know, I also like to cook and it doesn't go well if you don't have a recipe and you don't, you know, you don't cook it the right amount or add the right ingredients.

And so Kimberly's right.

We need to think intentionally about our jobs and how they're designed.

And I would add, have employees part of that.

They know their jobs, they know what they do.

Don't come in and tell them necessarily what to do, but involve them in that.

Like, I have never written anyone's job description or that kind of thing or goals for them.

I've always done it with them.

So I think Kimberly's right.

Love that.

Reminds me of the phrase, hey, do it with your people, not to your people, or I'm not sure who said that way back in the day.

But also I would argue that even Bobby Flay, the renowned restaurateur, incredible chef.

I bet he still uses recipes.

Kind of to your point.

David, I want to get your thoughts here, not only on that research we were kind of laying out from the World Economic Forum, but some of the opportunities we have out there in industry when, as it relates to workforce engagement.

Your thoughts?

Sure.

So first off, on the article, I thought very similar to Kimberly as we talked through that article, very much highlighting that there's still a lot of that, what I call old school transactional type of thinking that exists and that really needs to kind of be done away with.

And we really have to look at, you know, how do we lead from a new paradigm when we deal with our teammates.

Even though we went through this in the article was really good, one thing that I didn't know if I read it correctly or not, but felt was kind of lacking was that it talked about thinking of your talent as an investment, like a capital expenditure.

Right.

That was the lead into the six solutions.

And I read that and I was like, hmm, seems a little strange to me.

Because if you think about it, what I did feel was missing was that, you know, the people work for their immediate supervisor.

That immediate supervisor is so critical in developing everything.

Right.

A study I saw all years ago talked about how 70% of an employee's engagement is tied to their relationship with their immediate supervisor.

And it's the word relationship is key, not their interaction.

Right.

And then it says that, you know, an engaged employee is 60% more productive.

So if you're talking about developing that incredible customer experience, the innovations and the insights, you really have to start focusing on growing great leaders, developing great leaders all the way down to the line level.

And I really think that's the piece that I didn't see in the article that I was looking for.

Just don't think you have a relationship with capital expenditures, if you know what I mean.

Oh, hey, we gotta preach that louder to folks in the back.

I completely agree with you so much there.

The beautiful human factor.

They're humans.

We gotta have those relationships.

We've got to create the right and the compelling reasons for them to donate as much time or give as much time as they do to companies and organizations.

40 hours a week or even more in some cases.

Where overtime, you know, we're talking about massive lifetime investments.

And I think you hit the nail on the head, David.

Another thing, Marty, and get your final thought here is we can't stop at the headlines.

You know, I use the headlines here just to kind of give folks a sense of what we're going to be talking about.

But we got to go down deep into the themes and the thoughts are being conveyed.

And you know what?

Everything we read, we can't take it to the bank.

Right.

And David's pointing out a couple thoughts there.

Your final opinion here, Marty, on this topic of putting people first?

No, I love what David had to say.

And a hack I give to my students is back to that customer thinking.

Think of your employees as if they were customers.

Have you ever heard anybody screaming and yelling at a customer and cussing them out or not listening to a customer or not responding to a customer's needs?

You just don't do that.

So if you treat your employees as well as you treat your customers, it's a real difference maker and it's easy to remember.

And then the second thing I tell my students, look, a great boss at a bad company is always better than a bad boss at a great company.

I want both.

But people leave companies because of lack of autonomy often and because their boss stinks.

And so you want to push the lever, just like David said, then improve the leadership of the direct supervisors and people that supervise them and it'll make a big difference.

Well said, Marty.

Well said.

And folks, I would just kind of piggyback there.

We can learn tremendously from the best people we work for, right?

The best managers, the best leaders.

But I would argue we can maybe even learn even more, if that's possible from some of the folks that aren't great managers or leaders to work for.

And it's really important, I think, that we reflect intentionally on that and then apply it in our own journey.

So good stuff there.

Marty, Kimberly and David, similar lines here as we move into the next topic with our panel.

And we've seen organizations prepare and transform themselves in a wide variety of ways, especially as they enter 2025.

We got a little extra dose of disruption and uncertainty here at the beginning of this year.

And as we all know, transformation has been a dominant theme in recent years.

It's amazing to see what some organizations have done and how fast they've done it.

But there seems to be, based on the homework we've done here, quite the transformation story at RBW Logistics.

And I think one that might offer some Helpful ideas and best practices for our audience here.

So David, would you share a few key highlights of what you've been able to accomplish?

You and Kimberly and the whole alliance, what you've been able to do and why?

Sure.

Some quick context.

If you think about it, RBW logistics and some of your research, you probably found this is a 70 year old company, fourth generation ownership.

And really in 2023, the exec team came together and decided that we really wanted to grow this business aggressively.

So we put together a multi year strategy laying out different things that we wanted to accomplish, ultimately ending up with, you know, a national presence.

But we knew that to do this and to do it well and make it sustainable, that our talent had to be the competitive advantage that we use to grow the business.

Right.

Because when you peel things back and go, what is 3 PL?

I mean pick packing and shipping.

If you're a warehousing and distribution company like rbw, that's table stakes, right?

That's something everybody needs to do and do well.

Operational excellence is key, but it really was about the talent and ensuring that talent and a focus on talent, transforming it to true talent stewardship would be the differentiator for us.

And then Frank Anderson, our CEO, brought in relations research at the beginning of 2024.

We've been at this with relations research.

As you can tell, it's 2025 now, so for over a year.

And it's been an incredible journey.

I don't want to steal the thunder of Kim and how she can tell you the things that they do and how they do it.

But one thing that we really attacked first and foremost, it was highlighted in that World Economic Forum article about how poor it is in terms of onboarding.

It's a horrible process.

People would typically leave in those first 90 days.

We really went after that in our first piece.

With that, we've developed a very comprehensive process that we've rolled out, you know, in our company where we're trying not only to bring people in, you know, we're being very intentional, not only to teach them how to do things well.

Right.

But also really roll out the red carpet so that they're like, man, I am really, really glad I made that decision to come here and to work at rbw.

So that's the first piece we're at.

There's a lot more to it, but you know, I'll pause for, yeah, allow Kim to share a little bit of how she's helped us.

So that's the first few bites to the elephant, right.

And that's impressive.

And Kimberly, I just want to call one thing out before you share a little bit more is I bet if we post our audience out there that's watching and list right now and said, how many of y'all have had the most wonderful experience onboarding at organizations, all the organizations in your journey, probably there will be no hands raised because so many companies, we get that wrong time and time again.

So I love how that's been a big part of the initiative thus far.

But Kimberly, tell us more, would you?

Sure.

Well, when I first met Frank, one of the things that impressed me was his non transactional view of customer relationships and how important that was to maintaining and continuing to grow an attractive profit margin.

And so the idea was, and he had the vision for doing the same with the talent relationships.

So since David talked a little bit about the onboarding, I'll talk a little bit about how you structure the transformation because that's really, really important.

As that article pointed out, the workforce is key to successful transformation.

And so we structured the change journey in a way where we form a small but very powerful guiding coalition.

And on that coalition there's positional diversity.

So you have representation from the front lines.

And as David pointed out, we started in the operations with a heartbeat of their business.

We had manager representation and of course, leadership.

This team is sponsored from the CEO or by the CEO.

And you know that authorship of the solutions by the people is so critical.

We're just there to guide to be like a Sherpa, to help people understand how to be highly effective change agents.

And as we've pointed out several times, key to this is learning how to transform the relationships.

Not just the processes, not just the technologies, but the underlying relationships.

And so we also adhere to incremental change.

So this team begins the journey with a first win, then creates a second win and a third win and a fourth win.

So that's really important.

Sometimes change fails because you just try to do too much.

Kimberly, you got me craving more and more and more behind this story.

And we don't have enough time to get to, I'm sure all the wins because I counted at least four of them.

I bet there's about 13 of them, Kimberly.

But Marty, one of the things that Kimberly touched on there is structuring the transformation, structuring the change, right?

Allowing for incremental change, which can be layered on and built on.

So you've got a really strong foundation so that we can have as much orderly change.

Right.

Where folks know the direction and they're Willing to take those steps.

As I heard Kimberly describe all that, I gained some serenity.

Right.

Because humans, we all struggle with change, some more so than others.

Right.

And so how we structure it is such as billion dollar advice.

But your thoughts there, Marty?

Yeah.

So one, I think it starts at the top.

And I love how they've talked about Frank.

I've met Frank's dad.

I know Frank well.

I know Frank's son Henry, who went with me to improve the splat chain at the Masters golf tournament.

Frank opens up his home to the students when we're there, when we're on the course, he treats us like royalty.

And Henry did the same thing when we were there as well.

And then secondly, just in defense of supervisors and bosses, we just assume that individual contributors can make that transition from one day to the next, and we don't take them through, as Kimberly pointed out, sort of an intentional way to learn from the people they supervise, learn from the people around them, and do it in a smart, thoughtful, intentional way.

That's all tied back to the vision of the owner and the vision of the strategy.

So I think that's a fantastic approach.

And as far as change is concerned, I teach my students by saying, look, if you don't think change is hard, then try putting your pants on with the other leg first tonight.

And it is extremely difficult to do.

And that's just for one individual.

Now think about it for an entire organization.

And it's hard.

So we've got to do it incrementally.

We've got to get successes under our belt, and we got to teach the supervisors how to actually do that.

Oh, I love that.

Couple points.

I'm glad that you are speaking.

We got to defend everybody, right?

I certainly am not trying to make out that all supervisors and managers and business leaders, you know, they're all at fault.

It takes that proverbial village.

Right.

But to that point some more, I'm glad you brought that up.

But to that point, that coalition that Kimberly and David are speaking about, one of my favorite things of that, because it gets missed so often out in industry, is the voice of the frontline worker is well represented.

I love that in and of itself.

And I also love how intentional that is about building the right coalition.

Okay, I'm gonna circle back around because I know there's so much more to this story.

Kimberly and David, I'll get one more thought.

Whether it's one of the thing that more folks should know in case they're trying to drive change and build a better Value proposition for their team and their organizations.

Or maybe it's a sneak peek of what's to come.

David, your last thought here before we move on to the next topic.

So Kimberly hinted at a little bit, but this focus on relationships, this focus on talent, stewardship, building durable relationships with your associates, this mindset is transformational because it is applicable to everything you do in business.

Ultimately, if you think about it right, you can apply this to customers, to vendors, anything.

Because ultimately the relationship is about choice.

Both sides have a choice.

So what you can do with this is really, you know, make a powerful impact getting past these transactional relationships with your customers as well.

And that's one area we're looking at very heavily in 2025 and very excited about.

And what that can do for rbw.

Can't wait.

Let's have you back as y'all get more into the year.

Kimberly, what else would you add to this incredible story that I think you are writing together?

Yeah, so a lot of times that people hear the R word relationships and they think it's soft and squishy.

But at rbw, underlying that word relationship is mutual accountability, mutual value.

And that's been so incredibly transformative to get people to understand that neither party can be entitled to that relationship.

Both parties have to perform.

Both parties have to understand expectations.

So there's a hard, I don't want to say hard edge, but it's not soft and squishy, but it's something that people can really get their minds around.

And when they do, it just unleashes so much.

Oh, it's so true.

And unleashes a great image in my mind.

And Marty, we all need Sherpas when it comes to change management, whether it comes to identifying and acting on a bold new vision for where you want to take your company or plenty of other things.

And I love, speaking of words we love, I think Sherpa is a great one that's got so much more application industry as well.

Marty, your final thought here on the RBW logistics and relations research story?

Yeah.

So you've got a company, rbw, that wants these changes, but you also have help from somebody like Kimberly in relations research.

I like to think of them as like the net promoter score on steroids.

And so they bring in that relationship part, that change management part, the metrics and measurement part.

And at the end of the day, people that care about the place that they work will work harder, they'll stay there longer, they'll bring their friends and family to work there.

They'll have pride in it.

And when all of that stuff happens, you know, it's just a beautiful thing.

And so, you know, don't necessarily try to do this by yourself.

You got people like Kimberly that know exactly how to do this and have been doing it for a long time.

And I've seen her do it with lots of great companies like Walmart, Pharmacy and others.

And I would bring her in and she can do an assessment and help you figure out how to improve your hiring processes, improve your leadership, employee retention, all measurable thing.

Okay, high praise, Kimberly.

Outstanding.

Your phone may be blowing up pretty soon and if not it should.

But really appreciate you and David being here.

We got one other article I want to get to here in just a second.

But Marty, as you were talking it gave me a thought and sometimes I can't catch all the thoughts.

Oh, I know what I was going to do.

Marty, as I'm scrolling looking at all the comments here, my hunch is a whole bunch of Bulldog fans.

I want you give you an opportunity to give a Go Dogs.

I can't say that.

So Marty, let's say it for the students.

Go Dogs.

All right.

Okay.

So much to get to so little time.

David, Kimberly and Marty, I want to tackle this.

This is a perfect story, you know, because David was kind of sharing a few thoughts on the evolving role of managers out in the industry.

Right.

Neat.

Read here from our friends at HR Dove on how managers responsibilities continue to not just evolve but grow.

Meaning those plates, those management plates are getting taller and taller now.

The article cites a recent Fidelity study on management and here are a few key highlights.

1.

Managers are the first point of contact for employees.

I think David mentioned that earlier.

So of course they play a critical role in helping to ensure a positive work environment.

Adding to the list of manager responsibilities.

The study points out that managers seem to be responsible more and more for managing what it calls complex emotional challenges of their team members.

That's a good call out.

And the data suggests that employers gotta have manager burnout on their radars as we may see a lot more of that in 2025.

So David, let's pick up there from the data, you know, from the article from our friends at HR Dive your thoughts on the evolving role of management.

When I read this article, it kind of ties in a lot to what Kimberly just shared about this idea of mutual right.

When I read this and I thought about a manager and if you're not in a very mutual, you know, environment that's practicing talent stewardship.

As we discussed you're going to look at this and just think, this is just another thing that I have to work through.

But if you're really in an organization where you're in this mutual environment, you're having that conversation with your direct boss, working through this, right.

And expressing what you need to be successful.

Your boss is asking, how do I help you flourish and thrive?

Right?

And it's this brokering of a two way relationship that helps him through these types of changes, right?

And when you do that and you get this right, it kind of goes back to this great phrase, right?

Where work is a we thing, right?

Versus on my own thing, right?

And if you have that, it's on my own.

And that's the way I kind of read that article.

You're going to be like, man, this is another thing I got to work through.

Just pile it on me, right?

So that's why I think it's really critical how an organization thinks about this from top to bottom and how they prepare their leaders and bring what the leaders need to be successful.

It is mutual, not unilateral.

I love that theme.

I love that thing.

It reminds me, David, before I get Kimberly's take on a powerful disposition that a previous organization, a manufacturer up in Rome area, Southeastern Mills, wonderful manufacturer, great family story.

One core element of their culture there is this notion of mutual positive assumptions.

And David, with your constant emphasis on mutual, I think this is really relevant.

You know, rather than buying into social or email or texting and how we might assume the angle that folks are coming from, they really tried to establish a really important part of their culture where we're all going to embrace mutual positive assumption.

That's always stood out to me and that was years and years ago.

I was out there.

Kimberly, your thoughts though, going back on this article here where it talks about the growing and evolving role of the manager, Your thoughts?

Well, I'll echo what David mentioned, but I'll also say that, you know, managers, so many of them are at a breaking point.

And so that really resonated with me about manager roles getting more and more difficult.

But I'll say this, that often when we're brought in and we take a look at so many manager roles, they're spending so much time firefighting, and when we see that, we have to ask, you know, why is that?

And, you know, just doing a five whys or maybe a ten whys reveals a lot of reasons.

I mean, something is wrong, something is amiss.

If managers are at the breaking point and they're spending all Their time firefighting.

And I feel like organizations need to do more to set managers up for success.

I'll never forget, I think it was like last year that we were working with one organization and the internal joke was their manager roles were the junk drawer.

So if you didn't know who this task belonged to, just throw it over to the manager.

But really being curious and saying, are we structuring these roles correctly?

Are we developing people?

You know, why is this firefighting happening?

And oftentimes you'll see it's just that people get caught in patterns and norms that just play out again and again and again.

And you've got to step back and look at it with fresh eyes to disrupt it.

Kimberly.

Oh, my gosh.

Mar, give us your take on what Kimberly just shared.

And then I'm going to revisit this 10Y that she shared.

That's a great tool.

Your thoughts, Marty?

Yeah, I was actually going to talk about the why related strategy.

If people don't know the strategy, then they're using what I call the boss card and just telling people what to do.

And we hate that as kids, and we hate it as people.

So the managers have to know the why.

But a brief story.

I went into a company and watched a leader, and things were breaking in, parcel shipments and would open the box, look for the batch number to go find the employee to yell at about why they broke it.

That was the extent of the five whys.

And the root cause investigation was to go blame somebody.

And just by me stepping in and one, stopping that from happening.

Two, getting us to go back and talk about, well, let's not just put fires out.

Let's figure out why these parcels are breaking in the first place.

And three, knowing that Edwards Deming said that that wasn't the people, that was the processes and it was the systems that we've designed for the employees, which goes right back to Kimberly's original point around work design.

So the whys, whether they're the five or ten whys to get a root cause or the whys to explain to employees, why am I here?

Why does my work matter?

And that forces managers and supervisors to actually know that.

Well said, Marty.

And you completely stole my thunder.

I'm giving you more thunder.

I'm gonna give it all to you, Marty.

Very well said.

I'm gonna save.

I got a couple additional thoughts, but I'm gonna save it for as we get your key takeaway from the whole segment here in just a minute.

So for the sake of time, I want to make sure folks know how to connect with David and Kimberly.

Folks, we got just a tip of the iceberg in the, you know, 25, 30 minutes we've had with them here today.

But David, if folks want to learn more about either this transformational chapter or the cool things you are doing at RBW Logistics, what can they do?

Best thing would be just to email me.

Simple.

Davidbwlogistics.com can't forget that.

No.

Bold move, my friend.

Hey, I welcome it.

David's a no nonsense individual.

Really enjoyed you being here with us.

David Sadler with RBW Logistics.

Kimberly, same question for you, right?

Folks want to connect with you and the cool things you are doing at Relations Research.

What should they do?

The simplest way is just seek me out on LinkedIn, connect with me, message me, or feel free to go to our website, Relations research dot com.

All right.

It's just that easy.

And we're also dropping Kimberly's LinkedIn profile right there in the chat.

So you want to click away.

Folks, we try to make things really, really easy.

Well, I wish we had another hour or so with y'all.

Appreciate you stopping by.

David Sadler, CFO and CEO with RBW Logistics.

And Kimberly Evans, CEO at Relations Research.

We look forward to reconnecting later this year.

Thank you so much.

Enjoy it.

Thanks, Scott.

Thank you.

All right, so as I mentioned, you stole my thunder and I want to get your favorite takeaway from that conversation with David and Kimberly.

But one of those is the five why 10y.

So folks, if you're new to the five why process, you know, you might say, hey, why is this product late?

And then you get the answer and then you follow it up with another why question.

Why, why?

Why?

Rather than who, which is a question in Marty's example that he was sharing, right.

That story and she talked about maybe not stopping at five wise.

That's right.

You don't have to.

There might be ten wise, but it's whatever it takes to get to root cause.

That way we have a culture where it's not putting band aids over problems.

And then people have to solve the same problems, unfortunately, as well as new ones day in and day out.

Who wants to work in organization like that?

So getting to root cause is so, so important.

Marty, your favorite takeaway from that great segment.

So we've talked about this, but a lot of leaders in supply chain focus in on all these technical things.

And what I've found is that many of the failures are not technical.

They're between the intersection of people.

So supply chain and sales Supply chain and marketing, supply chain and exec team, supply chain and vendors, supply chain and customers.

And so we do things through people and it's in my experience more often failed leadership.

And so, you know, engaging like David has done a company like relations research to get in and you know, really help leaders be better leaders.

It's a great thing to do.

And oh, by the way, it'll make our supply chain better and more resilient because we're solving what I found to be the biggest challenge in supply chain management.

Poetic leadership thoughts with Marty Parker.

We got a new podcast coming that's, that's gonna be the name of it, Marty.

But really do enjoy, enjoy your thoughts.

You dropped here.

And I also enjoy folks, if you're not following or connected to Marty Parker across social, he drops these leadership, management and supply chain nuggets all the time.

So be sure to check that out.

All right, Marty, we gotta move fast, but I got one more story that I'm going to share.

I'm going to pop this graphic up and you know folks, a lot of folks here in the state of Georgia are watching this Rivian story closely.

Why you ask?

First, why the automaker announced a mega factory here in the state back in 2022.

Right.

Three years ago.

Hard to believe some 8,500 jobs were projected to be created.

And the state of Georgia, Marty was really generous, they spent $125 million to buy and develop the 2,000 acre site out east of Atlanta.

Right.

Georgia also extended to Rivian what was the biggest incentive package in state history.

You know, this state has some big projects.

That package was worth $1.5 billion.

So then fast forward after ground was broken on, some folks know the story already.

But a couple of Years later, in March 2024, given all the sorts of challenges, business challenges and of course, lots of industry shifts, to be fair, Rivian announced that it would pause the construction of the Georgia plant.

Now all that.

So background now here as reported by cnbc, Rivian has made a little progress late last year, achieving its first gross quarterly profit.

Hey, gotta celebrate the big wins and small wins.

But the company is still projecting lower deliveries and a big loss in 2025, a loss to the tune of 1.9 billion billion, which would be less than the 2.69 billion loss in 2024.

Progress.

So two things from this read, I'm gonna get your take here, Marty.

Two things.

Number one, no mention of the PAWS plant here in Georgia.

But Rivian does mention that they'll be idling their only plant up in Illinois later this year so they can retool for new vehicle production.

And then secondly, those better fourth quarter 2024 numbers, well, they were helped by some $299 million in regulatory credits that they sold to other automakers, which helps other makers meet those pesky emissions standards.

Without that interesting revenue stream, Rivian would have lost over $1 billion for fourth quarter 2024.

So Marty, I gotta find some regulatory credits to sell, my friend.

How about you?

But your, your thoughts in general, given the time we've got.

Anna, we ever gonna see that Rivian mega factory here in Georgia?

Yeah, I think that's a whole show, Scott, but the short version maybe.

I think it's going to be way in the future.

Right now we don't seem to be very supportive of EVs in terms of, you know, removing the tax incentive.

I just saw we pulled the charging stations from government locations and we've got the big tariffs that might come into play.

So no, I don't think it's happening anytime soon.

I think EV technology is going to be fantastic long term.

The cars last longer.

I just saw, I think it was BMW is going to get up to 600 miles with their new battery technology.

So one of the great things about us encouraging this competition has been creating better and better EVs.

So if Rivian does that and stays competitive on a world market, then, you know, we may see that factory eventually.

But I don't think it's going to be soon with all the uncertainty happening right now.

You know, I tend to agree with you and I hate to be pessimistic because, you know, I'm a practically optimistic person.

But look, the state of Georgia is a great, great state to invest in.

Going back to the talent themes we've been talking about, right?

You are seeing great talent from UGA show up in the comments here that Marty is engaging and I bet as much as he educates them, I bet he loves being educated by this top talent, right?

You got lots of great school system, technical school system and more.

But what intrigues me about Rivian and this article didn't go into it as much as many, many others is how they're still trying to find that profitability per vehicle.

So it'll be interesting to see.

And you know, there's a, there's a lot that goes into that, right, to be really fair, a lot to go into that.

They've had some, you know, supply chain challenges like so many other companies and many other things as they look to innovative products and batteries and components.

So if they can, some would say when they can.

But when they can be profitable and make money on every car that rolls off that line, then that new factory, that new mega factory here in Georgia, that might be sooner on the horizon than I think where it stands right now.

We shall see, Marty.

See, I'm hedging my bets there, Marty.

All right.

Hey, when it happens, we'll have to commit to go buy a Rivian.

Oh, no doubt they're like six figures or something, but I think you and I deserve a Rivian if they build effective.

Marty.

I didn't know that they were that expensive, but the folks that have them in my network, there's only a handful, they love them, they swear by them.

So hopefully that customer experience will convert over into healthy margins for an innovative company that's trying to find find their early way.

Okay, well, as we wrap here today, Mark, this has been a jam packed buzz.

I want to thank David Sadler again with RBW Logistics.

I want to thank Kimberly Evans with relations research.

What a great and transparent story and authentic story they shared here today.

I love that.

Big thanks to Marty Parker.

Be sure to follow him across social media.

Marty, Supply Chain Dog, I think is one of your monikers out there.

Is that right?

Yep.

On everything but LinkedIn and I'm easy find on LinkedIn as well.

And a shout out to my students for coming and joining us today in the Buzz UGA chapter today.

That's right.

I really wish we could engage all of y'all and get yalls thoughts, but Nicholas and Brett and Samuel and Fernando and Catherine, so many great to have all of y'all here with us.

Let us know what you think of today's show.

And finally, folks, find Supply Chain.

Now wherever you get your podcast, that link there will basically show everything that we do across our wide world of programming.

Big thanks to a man and Trisha behind the scenes, help make production happen each and every day.

And most importantly, big thanks to our global audience for being here with us.

We really appreciate all that y'all do.

Keep the feedback coming, man.

We get some great feedback, folks.

Hope you enjoyed our show today.

Take one thing, one thing you heard here today from Kimberly and David and Marty and share it with your team.

Put it into practice.

We got to shatter that old traditional way of doing things, that there's still a lot of that out there and it's right.

And there's only one way we do that.

With deeds, not words.

So with all that said, on behalf of the entire Supply Chain Now.

Team Scott Luton challenging you.

You know it.

Do good, get forward, be the change that's needed.

And we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

Thanks, everybody.

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