Ken Wilson is just your average small time guy. Who grew up in a blue collar family in the cornfields of Illinois. He overcame adversity early on. He lost his mom at a very young age. His dad remarried and ended up going through a difficult divorce, which left the family with little money and living in low income housing. Ken used sports to get him through the hard times. He excelled in baseball and got a scholarship to play college ball only to suffer a career ending injury. After graduation, he landed an unexpected job in a technology industry, selling manufacturing software. And over the past 25 years, Ken has created a successful career in that industry. Winning many honors. He attributes his success to a positive attitude, great work ethic surrounding himself with some incredible people and a true desire to serve. Ken lives in Florida with his wife of almost 30 years and has a 23 year old son and a 21 year old daughter for fun. Ken likes to hang out on the beach, hike in the mountains, ride his electric bike workout and spend time with his family. He is also the author of two books that he wrote during the pandemic, The Bible Simplified and The Invitation both available on Amazon. Welcome Ken Wilson to the Business Superfans Podcast.

Freddie D. Wow. What a blast from the past when you called me. I remember our early days in the manufacturing software industry in Chicago, like 30 years ago.

Yeah.

Just think about it. I was just how young and clueless I was as a sales rep. But you had drive.

You had Drive, and I remember when we drove together in a couple of accounts that we went because I was managing the channel, and I think you worked for CAD CAM tools at the time, if I remember correctly, we just hit it off. And we went to a couple of accounts. We had the same mindsets. And it was a lot of fun.

Had a lot of fun. And you taught me a lot. Again, I was coming out of school. So you were a little bit more polished. It took me a little time to learn from you on this stuff. That kind of feeds into a little bit more about my background and set the stage here. Like you said, anything is possible with hard work, grit. A desire to learn and get better every day. And most of the time You gotta have a goal to have that vision of where you want to go, because if you don't know where you want to go, you're going in a circle. Exactly. But I think Fred, Freddie, I think the most important thing is the ability to deal with other people, right? Not just in sales, but also in all aspects of our lives, whether it's a friendship, your marriage, any type of relationship, it's just basically gets down to, how do you deal with people? I grew up in the cornfields of Illinois. In a blue collar family, several of my family members only had fifth grade educations. My dad went to army. He got his high school degree. So from my perspective, Freddie is, we really weren't this career minded driven family. My grandma, she helped raise me and she washed dishes most of her life. My dad worked at the local refinery on the night shift. The majority of his life, he was just doing all these odd and end construction jobs, but what they did teach us. Was the core values of trust, integrity, respect, and hard work ethic. It was driven by discipline too. Like when we got out of line, my dad made sure we got back in line.

I know that story very well. Cause my parents came from Europe, similar thing. They were beginnings and what changed my life was the fact that I met a guy at a gas station when I was pumping gas. I'm still friends with this gentleman. His name is Don Tocco. He gave me a pamphlet that had all these books, the power of positive thinking and think and grow rich and how to win friends and influence people. I read that stuff and it completely transformed me and he taught me to believe, so I totally get where you're coming from.

Yeah, I used to work days at the lumber store, nights stocking shelves at the grocery store, just trying to make ends meet and then thinking, what the heck am I going to do with the rest of my life with this degree? Who am I going to be? And is, do I want to be in advertising and graphic design the rest of my life? So I was basically lost after college with no real direction. And I sent out hundreds of resumes, no callbacks, no responses. So out of nowhere, a couple of years out of college, I get this call from a company. Who wanted me to sell computer RAM chips back in 1992. Again, I'm an advertising graphic design guy, and the only chip I knew back there was like potato chips. Right? I'm like, okay, you want me to sell for you. What does that have to do with anything graphic design related? And what about my lack of experience and knowledge in sales? A lot of us aren't, right? Right. Old and trained on how to be a salesperson. But this company, out of nowhere, gives me a chance. I said yes. And the rest is history, as I've been in sales now for, God, 30 years now, and it's the best career move I've ever made.

You're very good at it.

And my advice to those people out there who think they're just not good enough, or maybe they don't have any idea what they want to do with their life, or maybe they don't think they deserve the opportunity, I want to make it very clear. Yes, you do deserve it. You deserve it. And you can do it. You gotta go after it. But you gotta make a choice, too. Right, Freddie? You gotta get past the fear, accept the invitation, because you never know where it's gonna take you and the people you're gonna meet along the way that are gonna help shape your life and impact your career.

Yep. Sylvester Stallone says it the best. There's nothing tougher than life because it will knock you down and it's going to knock you back down and you got to get back and knock back at it.

You know what? You were so right. I was reflecting back too. So when your call came out of the blue, I'm thinking about old school days on that journey and just how far I've come. All these struggles and obstacles I've been encountering along the way to help shape me into who I am today. I'm grateful for you, all the people and experiences in my life. I truly believe the best education is being in the trenches.

Absolutely.

Taking the punches. You gotta take the punches. Fall down.

And they hurt. They leave a mark. But you gotta get back up.

That's why they call them the College of Hard Knocks, right? I remember having a lot of these face flat, on the mat moments along the way. I always tell our kids this too, but separates the winners from the losers. This getting back up, getting back in the game and doing it all over again that you were talking about the desire and then how you respond. That's how you respond to those obstacles and circumstances along the way. And it's all gets down to your choices that you make in life.

And sometimes it's hard to get back up. You think that it's over. You can't make it and you get delusional. But you got to slap yourself upside the head a few times. It doesn't happen right away. Once you do and snap out of it, you get back on the horse and you start going forward again.

So old school days, Freddy, early nineties, hip hop music, Michael Jordan, the Bulls, fax machines were in. Internet was just starting up and knocking on doors, handing out business cards when we were in a suit and tie. You remember the old James Bond 007 brick phones that were so cool back then?

I had one. I had a couple of them, but we were cool, man, in our back pockets, these big bricks. So, yeah, those were wild times.

Freddie, do you remember the one where I thought I was so professional when I got my first leather briefcase with those gold clasps? Oh, yeah. It would make that loud click when you press the button to open a hard briefcase. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and we were men, man. We made it to the top. If they didn't buy, you just use it.

For real

it's eyeopening and pretty amazing to think back on those 30 years. I'll share what I mean and what makes a person stand out from another person or why one sales rep is more successful than another. Because when you get right down to it, Freddy, it's not really magic.

No, it's not.

There's just some plain, simple things that people can do, certain values and principles that you can embrace and practice that were in place hundreds of years ago and are still in place today.

And they work, that's the thing is the society has changed a bit to where it's a lot more transactional, but the ones that blend old school have a dramatic advantage over those that are just strictly in a transactional world today.

Exactly. So for all the young people out there too, who are deciding what they want to do in their lives, whether it's to get into sales. Be an accountant, a nurse, a doctor, whatever. I think what I'm going to talk about today with you, Freddie, is it applies to every career and in life, even someone who's 50 years old and wants to reinvent themselves, this is for them too, because I was reading up too. Look at Colonel Sanders.

He failed many times. Everybody kept saying no. He never gave up and he made it. There's a lot of people that retire out of corporate world. Okay. And then they realize this is boring. That's why I was so quiet. Nothing's happening. And so they want to start a business, but they got no clue on how to start a business. So that's one of the reasons I wrote the book because it incorporates a multitude of aspects from the beginning of prospecting, you got to have a roadmap, you have to have a vision. And so just like you're saying, it doesn't matter what the industry is, it's the principles are the principles. They don't change. They're applicable everywhere.

Exactly, Freddy. And you know what came to mind too, like reading your book, Business Superfans, awesome book. And what came to mind after I read that book is a great book that I read. That had a huge impact in my life. My success is Dale Carnegie's.

Yep.

How to Win Friends and Influence People. That was written back in 1936. And it was about how to deal with people, things you don't learn in school, just becoming genuinely interested in other people.

Sales is building relationships and creating those superfans out of those relationships. That's why you and I were so successful and still are successful in our sales approaches is because of the fact that we built relationships. It wasn't the product that we were selling. We were helping that individual achieve their vision of where they wanted to go. The tools that we had were just the tools to help them get there.

One of the core ideas in his book, and is that possible to change other people's behavior by changing our behavior toward them. Be enthusiastic. Just make people feel a bit more important.

Here's an important aspect is if someone says their name is Robert, don't call him Bob. It's just who gave you the permission to shorten the name? If, especially if they say it's Robert or Steven. And turn around and says, Oh, Steve, uh, it just that right off the bat annoys people. They don't usually say something, some do, but right off the bat, you just disrespected them.

Absolutely. You really did. And right off the bat, you wouldn't believe that how much of an impact that's going to have later on.

I learned that the hard way. In Europe, you don't call the person by their first name. It's actually Mr. Whatever their last name is. Until they give you the permission to say, okay, you can call me Robert or whatever. Same thing in the Asian culture. It's even more so important because their culture is very different.

That's interesting. Another thing too, Freddie is you gotta, you know, me, I don't take life too seriously, but I take my job and taking care of my clients seriously, but I don't let drama, negative talk get in my way. Just like you, I surround myself with positive, energetic, make it happen, figure it out kind of people. And I can't stress this next key point enough because 95 percent of the salespeople don't do it. Be a great listener. When I go into a meeting, I talk maybe 5 percent of the time, and that's basically because I'm asking them questions about themselves, their challenges, their goals. And learning how we can maybe solve a problem. People want to feel understood and get their point across. Yep. Think about the last time you had a doctor's appointment, right? And which doctor did you decide to go with? Do you want to go with the doctor who prescribes you medicine the first three minutes without even know what your problem is, or you want to go to a doctor who is genuinely interested in you, your problems, your pains, and they get to know you a bit more before they offer you some advice to validate your pain or fix your problem. It's the same in business, right? Acting, intentional.

Listening.

You know, listening.

Yep.

Because really, you're building a case for your product or service and why they need it. And why I always tell people, Freddie is I want the prospect or the client to sell me on why they need my product or service, not the other way around.

They're actually selling themselves and that's the fun part of the game. Cause I look at sales as a game because at my level and at your level, we know how to play it. So all we do is guide with the question. Like I said earlier. Whatever the software is, the widget, the tool, whatever the gizmo is irrelevant. It's all about how can we help them get to where they want to go. And the component that we're selling is a component to help them get to where they want to go.

You nailed it. Far too many times, I see even the most experienced sales reps, they'll just come in and they'll just throw up on clients for 95 percent of the meeting about how good their products are, how great their company is, and it doesn't even apply to what they want or need. And that turns people off and they see right through that too, Freddie. That rep never really took the time to understand what the company was trying to accomplish. You only get one shot sometimes. And if you blow it, you're out. So you got to make a great first impression. They pick up on that.

And that's how you create super fans is the fact that when you leave the meeting, they're excited because they know that you understand. Where they're at and where they want to go.

People buy from people they like and trust. And people can tell within the first few minutes if you're genuinely wanting to help them or if you're trying to sell them. Here's another thing too, Freddie, is you got to get to know your customers and their company. So before my meeting, I'll go to LinkedIn, ZoomInfo. And I'll find out who I'm meeting with, what their roles are, what their previous jobs they had, where they used to work, what colleges they attended, groups they've associated with. I research what the company does, and when you meet with them, talk about some of those things, right? Learn about their family, their favorite sports teams. That conversation is more of a natural. Fun way. And it gets them to talk about themselves. Maybe you got something in common.

Totally agree. I used to drive a Mercedes, I still do. And people would tell me, Oh my God, you're coming in. You're wearing expensive suits. You're driving a Mercedes. They're going to think your stuff is too expensive and everything else. They completely missed the situation because really, while the tech guys were talking to the tech guys, I'm talking to the owner of the company. And most of the time, what was he driving? An expensive car. And if it happened to be a Mercedes, him and I would be yakking about our cars and the tech guys would be tackling, handling all the tech stuff. We could care less. It was a conversation about cars and which mechanic did you use and what issues were, and which car were you thinking of getting next? And just like you said, we built the relationship and it was a game changer. And that really showed more importantly, success because people buy from people that they like and trust and feel that they're on the same level as they are.

And it's a great icebreaker, right? It tears down the walls. It makes them feel more comfortable and at ease that you're just a regular person, maybe with some similar interests. And then conversation and the meeting flows with less of this wall of what is this guy or gal trying to sell me into, wow, you know what, this guy's different. Maybe he does care. I'll give him a chance. And that's where the magic happens, Freddie. You go from selling to serving, right? Selling to serving. How can I serve this person? How can I serve this company and make them more successful? Because you know this, and it's all over your book, Business Superfans too, is once you build that trust, they start to become your Superfans.

Yep

And when I need a reference, guess who I can feel confident to ask? Those successful clients who are now my friends. Because prospects love to talk to actual clients who've been in their shoes and are trying to solve the same challenges. And now they hear it firsthand from their peers and not just us. And those referral connections is where. My business has grown tenfold, no doubt about it.

And that's why I named the book Creating Business Superfans is because the focus is on the business aspect. It's not, even though you can see behind me, the faces are painting. I took the idea, really, the idea came from sports fans. So if you think of the sports fans, the guys that go to the football games, the baseball games, the basketball games, got their faces painted, they got the jerseys. And they're just diehard fans. What are they doing? They're promoting that team. Is the team paying them for that? No. Are they probably making money off the merchandise? Absolutely. But those fans are promoting, they got the bumper stickers, they're wearing the stuff. They're promoting that team. So that's where my idea came. And that's why we've got our faces painted, but we're wearing business attire is why businesses create super fans for their business and get, which are basically brand advocates or advocates on steroids. The ultimate advocates are the superfans that are the diehard marketing tool, in a sense, for that business.

It's like you said in, your book too, Freddie. I remember you had to swoop in and save the day with that disgruntled customer. What I just mentioned above to save and grow that account, you basically went in to save it and then grow it and create some good relationships from that.

I felt like I was the cleaner. Okay. We're sitting, sending in the cleaner to go and get it cleaned up. And it was fun. I enjoyed doing that because it gave me energy to listen to their issues. Again, we go back to listening, hearing them out. But most people do is they try to solve the problem right away. Versus let them vent, let them get it out of them because once it's out of them, Its gone. That's one of the secrets. You let them just spill it all out till they run out of stuff to talk about because they got it all out of the system and says, okay, great, Ken. So where do we go from here? How do we get going? How do we get moving forward? And now all of a sudden all the negative stuff is gone. And so mentally they're transformed into, you're right, let's start moving forward. And that's really the secret.

It really is. Here's another thing that kind of feeds into that is you can't speed date clients. I remember getting a new account passed on from a few previous reps about four months into it. I finally got him on the phone and he said, why would I try building trust in a relationship with you knowing you're going to leave me in a year? Well, like, well, that's pretty harsh, right? And I told him to just give me a chance. And I met with him in person. And now two years into it, we've got a great relationship. We're doing some cross promotional marketing campaigns together and we've grown their business. So having a happy, successful client is like a friendship or marriage. It takes time to nurture it, build that trust, respect.

And you get out of the conversation, talking about the business and you start really, the business is 15 minutes. In the next 45 minutes, you're talking about what vacation they're planning to go on. Where have they been? How was that vacation or what their next gig that they're looking to do? Not business wise, but adventurous wise or life wise.

Yeah. Another thing, this is all over your Business Superfans book too, is thanking people, thanking people and building that bond of trust, and that's really about the relationships. It's amazing how those two simple words, just thank you. Can transform your life and another's person's life and you'll stand out from the pack. People recognize that and they're never going to forget you because of that attitude of gratitude you had for them. I like how you said it too in your book, Freddy, is you use their mailbox, not always their inbox. Everybody's hiding behind text messages and emails. Send an actual handwritten paper card next time.

Game changer.

Think about how you feel when you get something in the mail, right?

Well, what happens is because realistically, we get. Junk mail. We get bills, okay, that used to get bills. Now a lot of it's come email, but then you still go to the mailbox and, Oh my God, something personal. That's the first thing you open.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same with birthdays too. I know you have some apps that you use too, but I've got this app called Smashups. I send some of my close friends and business clients e cards that are customized with their first names on it.

I use Mailbox Power. It has the ability to send a physical card through the mail, as well as you can actually do personalized gifts. I add the name to the conversation, and now it's your water bottle. It's not my water bottle. It's just that little thing changes it dramatically. So now it's, don't take my water bottle versus, oh, that's their water bottle.

Little things like that make you rare, right? You're rare. You're above 98 percent of the population of business people or salespeople out there as well.

My quote in the book, people crawl through broken glass for appreciation, recognition.

Absolutely. You know what the thing is too, Freddie, I'm not just talking about clients. I just sent a gift card to one of my colleagues who has been instrumental in helping me and my clients out. And then like Dale Carnegie said, people work for money. But they go the extra mile for recognition, praise, and rewards. And that's so true.

Absolutely true. How important is to follow up, for example, after a visit and saying, thank you for your time, because the most precious commodity we have is the clock. You can be a gazillionaire and you can't buy more time and you can't buy it back.

Yeah, you took the time. Out of the blue, I'll bring home some flowers. It's not even a special occasion. I'll send something to a friend who was always there for me to let him know how much they mean to me. Listen to this one, Freddy. A few years ago, I wrote a 10 page letter to my pony league baseball coach who believed in me. And he gave me a chance to pitch how instrumental he was in helping me land a college scholarship. He put me up on the pitcher's mound. I was the last kid picked out of 200 kids and ended up with a full ride college scholarship. So he changed the trajectory of me, of my life. And I wanted him to know that and I called him after that and he was almost in tears.

It's the same thing with my friend, uh, mentioned Don Tocco. I met him pumping gas in Michigan and I was 18 years old. At the time I was living on my own. He pulled in with the Lincoln continental phone in the car. He's like 10 years older than me. And I'm going like, man, this guy is so cool. I don't know why we just hit it off. He actually had a second car and it was repaired at the gas station. He asked the owner for me to drive that car because he couldn't drive both cars. So I followed him to his place. He walked in, he had the really cool pad with the clear water bed on the floor, the lamps going down, it was just like a bachelor pad to the twelves. And that's where he gave me the pamphlet and I still have it. I reached out to him and I thanked him in a book. I still have the pamphlet and I just met with him in February this year. He was in Arizona. We reconnected after 30 plus years. He had my book with him and he had all these pages marked and he goes, How did you learn all this stuff? I read the books listed in the pamphlet and shared my career. He's actually going to order between 50 and 200 books, stick them into Hillsdale college in Illinois as part of a group of 12 books, cause he lectures there and they're designing a space for him. He changed my life because he helped me get a janitorial business started. And he taught me to think big and believe in myself.

Yeah. Those people. I think about my coaches all the time. When people in my life, whether it be a teacher or be a pastor's message that spoke to me at a time or whatever it is, those things really, they really hit your heart. And another thing I want to talk about too is there is no replacement for community. Community like that even starts with employees turning on their zoom or teams cameras. Like I always turn on my team camera or zoom camera to help build that personal relationship. And then going on site and visiting your clients.

It is.

Since COVID, it seems like more and more people have stopped visiting customers face to face. And it's too bad because going on site, and I tell this to my counterparts too, going on site is worth more than a hundred zoom calls because that's when you really get to know that person on a whole different level. So my goal every year. I've got a certain amount of counts is to go out and meet every one of my customers face to face.

It's transformational because one, they get to see you, you get to shake hands. You get that personal touch right there. There's a connection that's made. There's energy that's shared. But you start seeing their environment where their world and it's the dynamics are completely different and more importantly, most of the time, they're going to welcome you with open arms. However, sometimes you're walking into a hornet's nest, but the fact that you walked in, usually you calmed it down.

Hey, our profession is not all unicorns and rainbows, right? You're going to have, those bad days and those. Tough customers or prospects who just never call you back. They go dark on you and they just think you're another one of these pesky sales reps out to sell them more. And that's okay. My mindset has shifted from, boy. Maybe they just don't like me. I was taken at personally going through the college of hard knocks. My first few years, I changed that self talk, right? That's the self talk you have in your mind, right? I go now it's, Hey, that's their loss. Not in a mean way. I just say that's their loss because there's so much value I could have brought to them. And they missed out because they maybe have some preconceived notions of salespeople. And that's unfortunate that some clients or prospects don't give you a chance to prove yourself and show you why you're different from the others. That's on them, Robert. And I always say this too. Remember, some will, some won't. So what? Who's next? And you got to move on. It's like a deck of cards. You're flipping these cards and it's a numbers game. Sometimes there is. Jokers and then you're going to hit an ace and boom, then you're on your way.

Yeah. So let's talk, Ken, about some old school sales approaches that have gotten put aside that if were brought into play in today's world. How would that be a game changer for salespeople today?

Yeah.

We talked about thank you.

Here's something that's a game changer for me too, is I've gone from like this transactional mindset early on, where it's let's hurry up, let's close the deal to more of a transformational who genuinely taking the time to get to know them and their business and bringing in the right people to help them achieve their goals. I always tell people that. I don't know everything, but I know people who know everything. I can usually find them the right person to get you answers fast. And that's why it's so important to build, this network of very smart, reliable people that are available to help me and my clients. And then I became their go to guy. Okay. And instead of them spending hours researching a topic or a solution, they come to me and I connect them and facilitate the meetings with our experts. So, It's this ecosystem that we have, that we built and all the connections on LinkedIn I have and all the good friends that I trust. I bring them into conversations and it doesn't always have to be about my product, right?

The fact that you're a connector, so you may make zero money on it because it's not about the money. It's about helping them get to where, solving their need at that moment.

Yeah, that's so true. And you've seen it too. Heck, you've got, I'm sure, a massive Rolodex of phenomenal contacts and connections in the industry over the years. Everybody today wants things like now, right? So what I try to do. It is, I pick up the phone, I answer their emails immediately. It really sets you apart. It shows them when they need something and they're in a bind, they're going to call you.

Speed is everything. I tell people that you get an inquiry through your website. You got 15 minutes. Look at it as it has to be responded to in 15 minutes. Because if you respond within that timeframe, one, it shows, wow, they're actually paying attention to this thing. They call somebody else, right? Yeah. So if you respond within 15 minutes, you set the tone. One is you're responsive. Number two, you've pretty much eliminated any chance for competition because they're wowed that you responded to them so fast that their mindset already is while these guys care, I've closed more sales than they've Because I was the first one to respond to their website inquiry.

Exactly, exactly. What are some other things you do daily? I think the way you start your day sets the tone for the rest of your day. What I mean by that, Freddy, is I get up real early. I'm a five o'clock in the morning. I get up. I work out. I go sit in Kenny's corner, right? My little place away from everything. You know I pray, I thank God for all the things I'm so grateful for, I listen to positive podcasts. I fill my mind with all this positive energy and I may have 20 or 30 emails out before it's eight o'clock in the morning. So right off the bat, I'm two hours ahead of the other people. And if you start figuring all those hours out, two hours multiplied by 365 days, that's a lot of extra hours I have. And it really, it makes me feel at peace. So I'm at peace with myself when I go into my day. I keep healthy and it really helps me to get through the day as far as having this positive energy and just having great conversations with people.

Very important to stay ahead.

Yeah.

So let me ask you another question is how has cloud based software, for example, in the SaaS industry changed and become more transactional than the old school ways where we would go in person, do a presentation. Slug all the computer equipment all along and put it all together and in time to tear it down and schlep the stuff out of there. Remember those days?

My back still hurts from those days. Lug and a 200 pound monitor everywhere.

I know, I remember those days. Having to go upstairs because they didn't have elevators.

If you think back 30 years ago, you sell a computer, a high powered computer, with software, to one person at a large company, you're talking 30, 000, 40, 000.

Mm hmm.

Those were the days. Workers needed some serious money, so I think it broke down the barriers to anybody. Right? Think about what you can do now when you're not paying this upfront, expensive software cost and now computers in the cloud, it's so inexpensive that anybody now can start a business for a thousand bucks, you get a laptop, you're paying monthly now on the software instead of paying everything upfront and you've got Facebook now, you've got LinkedIn, you've got all these other tools. I wish we had these tools. And software and technology back in our days, Freddie, we would be, we did well. I think today's business people and sales reps have a huge advantage. Not only that, but it opens up bigger opportunities for people who are buying the software now.

Right. I'm going to twist that a little bit and go, okay, you've got the software platforms, and I think this is advice for those people.

It's transactional because you go in, you put in your credit card or you got your 30 day free trial and you get emails. Some people will actually call you and say, Hey, I just want to thank you for trying out our software. And those people usually have a better close ratio because they get a chance to build that relationship versus the emails, because you're still hiding.

As we talked earlier, you're still hiding behind emails. So I think that in today's world for those SaaS companies out there, throw in a little bit of old school. Reach out, if you've got that person's contact information, but if you don't have their phone number, send an email, say, Hey, I'd like to schedule a quick video, a 15 minute conversation with you just to understand why you're looking for the software, that's going to be a game changer in my mind.

Yeah, it really is because you're right. So the client bought the cloud software, see you later. And that's it. That's the end of the journey, but it is a journey, right? So I always try to leverage multiple touch points. I'll email, I'll text. I'll pick up the phone and call them. I'll link in with somebody. I'll send them a webinar, but I always want to consistently drip and keep my name in our company in front of them at all times, because I see far too many times reps who they sold the software, they hit their quota, they move on. What's next, and it's too late because maybe that customer who was your customer just purchased from somebody else and they got a different solution. Yeah.

Or they use your product for six months and then all of a sudden they disappear. They will do another platform because again, it's so easy to just say, you know what, I'm done with this package. I'm going to another package. And usually you don't even get any followup. Why did you leave? What can we do? It's poof, gone.

Freddie, everything is so dispensable today, right? Oh, you know what? My, my cell phone, gosh, it just doesn't seem to work. That's why you really have to be on top of people.

You can leverage technology, but you can send video. You can send a video message to somebody. I love that. I mentioned it in the book, is you can send someone in just a quick one minute. Ken, just want to reach out to you, say hi, hope all is well. There's tech, there's a bunch of tools out there. The onboarding of a new customer that's in a SaaS world, you sending them a video, welcome to the family, blah, blah, blah. There's little things that you can do. There's still old school way, using modern way

Spot on, exactly. Good stuff, Freddie. You know, I'll end it like this too, Freddie. My favorite. Saying, and you mentioned this in your book, Business Superfans too, right? It's from Teddy Roosevelt. It really encapsulates everything we were just talking about here, where people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So true.

Yeah. So I said, there's the little tools you can, there's multitude of ways in today's world, there's so much technology that you can utilize to build those relationships. Absolutely. Quick video. There's times where I FaceTime customers because it just makes it, they're like, Whoa, why not look at each other? And they start laughing. That's the other thing too, is I think the thing is getting people to laugh. That's one of the secrets. You get people to laugh. Everybody starts to relax.

Yeah.

So I really always try to get some form of humor in the conversation. And you just make fun of myself.

You know what? That's good. You're humble. When you can make fun of yourself, that's a good thing. Some people can't do that. But yeah, I totally agree with you, Freddie. That's why I was saying, I don't take life too seriously. I just like to have fun. And people all like to have fun. But you gotta also solve a problem. Get down to business. My wife does that too. She runs a health business and she got this automated text app. What used to take her hours to do. Now it takes her minutes where she can send out hundreds of personalized text messages to people to let them know about a new product or whatever. I love the FaceTime. She does a lot of FaceTime interviews. You'll have them talk about how much weight they've lost or, how much better they feel or how they transform their life and those really have a huge impact in people's lives.

My soon to be wife.

Congratulations.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Coming up in a couple of months. We're guests. She sells hearing aids over the phone. Okay. No visual, no nothing. Think about that. She sells and their top of the line hearing aids. Over the phone, but what she does so unique and she's one of the top salespeople in the company. Is she's real with the conversation. It'd be like, okay, Ken, hang on. Let me grab my keyboard, take a sip of my coffee. And that's how she does it. It's just like, she's having a conversation with a friend. She's not selling them and she starts off asking what's their challenges and everything else. And she kills it. And because she's real.

I'll be right back.

Those are some things that we can still do to create business superfans being real and authentic. Really, at the end of the day is being authentic and looking at how we can help them get to where they want to go, whatever it is.

Boom. Authentic, real.

So last thing I want to talk about is really how important is it to really recognize the whole ecosystem of a company. When you're talking with the customers, the employees, management, the partners, the suppliers, we talked about that a little earlier before we started recording the show. So what's your take on really recognizing that whole ecosystem?

Extremely important. And I'll tell you why. I see some experienced sales reps do it too, where they're tied down to one person. Or maybe that's the gatekeeper they're in touch with and they're not making any movement within the company. That's why it's so important to reach out to other groups. Within the company, they might have 30, 40 subsidiaries within their company. You need to get to know each and every one of those and their pain points and how they interact and how they share projects and data back and forth with one another and their suppliers too, because their suppliers can tell you stories of, Hey, you know what, did you know X, Y, Z company also works with didn't know that. So you learn so much by being involved with the entire. Ecosystem of a company. So yeah, I try to leverage as many contacts. Individuals, when I go into a company, how do we touch more people within that organization, within that ecosystem to provide them more value?

And you learn more, like you just said, you learn more about the business. And sometimes the individual that you're thinking is the individual, isn't the individual.

Yes.

How many times has that happened?

You can't break through that and find that person unless you did everything we were just talking about, right? You got to get them to trust you and then they'll start to open up. Clients that I've had, it could take a year or two, two, who knows how long it's going to take. But once you get to that point, those relationships with your customers, they'll introduce you to other people and then you'll start them to other people in their industry who can help them. So it just, it's a circle of love, right?

I remember one time I was selling a software product to a company and there was this old guy walking around. Nobody ever paid attention to this old guy and he was walking around. I'm talking to all these people. And so I finally asked, who's the old guy? He was the original founder of the company and he just hung around there. But he was the influencer. So I learned this and I started to talk to him to educate him on what we were doing, because at the end of the day, they didn't make any large decisions unless he thumbed it up. It's so important to really understand that whole ecosystem of a company, because like you were saying before, the guy may not be the guy, but that's the guy.

That's so good. And if you talk to my family. I talk to everybody, whether it's in business, like you said, I'll be in the lobby and I'll just be chatting with the receptionist and finding out information from her. We're just having a conversation or, yeah, I could be in an elevator. Elevators are great places to trap people. I'll see the name of the company I'm going to see on the elevator and I'll be like, Hey, who are you? And it could be the president of the company. I encourage people to talk more, to ask more questions, really, just like you did, whether you're in the lobby, whether you're at the grocery store. Wherever you're at, just talk to people. You never know who that person might be.

It could be the CEO of the company, and here you get a chance to be one on one with them.

Yeah. Yeah. You got to break down those barriers. I think the older I get too, Freddie, I get to a point where awareness level is so much higher. What I mean by that is I'm always out. I'm looking for things. I'm looking for people. I'm looking for opportunities. Everything out there to me is an opportunity. I think it's just being aware of your surroundings. Being a little bit more confident too, and not having self doubt, like, God, what are they going to think of me? That could be the best conversation they've had all day long.

You don't know what someone's going through in life. And sometimes a little goodwill can be transformative for that individual. They may be having a bad day. And the fact that you acknowledge them, recognize them, little stuff is big stuff. Because again, you don't know what's going on in their world.

Yeah. Like my dad always said, you don't know what it's like until you're in somebody else's shoes. And he's so right. I remember walking into a grocery store, going to get a pound of turkey or something. I went there and saw the deli lady and she just looked upset. Like she was frustrated. It looks like she was having a bad day, just down in the dumps. And I remember looking at her name tag and going, Hey Joyce. How's your day going over there? And she just brighten up and she's slicing me some turkey. She gives me a couple of pieces and I hopefully made her day. So just never know.

That's how you create superfans. Everybody will remember how you made them feel.

Absolutely.

If you make them feel special, recognized, they're your superfan.

That's right.

Cool, man.

Stuff,

Man and a great show. So, how can people find you, Ken?

Yeah, Freddie, so people can reach me by going to my website. It's StorytellerLove. Storytellers with an S dot love. They can hit the contact me button. And that site, it's basically about ordinary people doing extraordinary things. There's some great videos on there. There's podcasts and book recommendations. And they can even call or text me at 512 663 2102. And speaking of books, I've authored a few books that are available on Amazon. There's the Bible Simplified, where I boil down the Bible to make it easier and less intimidating for anyone to read. And then my other book is called The Invitation, and it talks about when a door is opened and an opportunity is presented, it's our choice to walk through that door and do it, and how we need to pay more attention to these nudges and opportunities and people in our life, and how they are more than just coincidental, you know, to take more chances and not let fear or self doubt hold us back from some massive breakthroughs. I'd like to offer both of those books. As a gift to an audience member there. So thanks again, Freddy D. I appreciate you having me on. I had a great time with you.

Yeah, it's a great conversation. Let's set up another show to talk about one of those books. I like the one, what'd you call it again? The Invitation. I like that. Let's have a conversation about that. Cause that's so important.

You got it. Congratulations on your book too, Business Superfans. Thank you.

Ken, been a pleasure having you on the Business Superfans podcast show. We look forward to having you on the show once again.

Thanks again, Freddie D. Appreciate it.