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Kevin Perlmutter: I have stamina.

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You got to keep going every
day, you got to wake up every
day and keep pushing forward.

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Keep making connections, reconnecting
with people who, you know, and
like I coach my own clients.

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You need to focus, connect and.

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David Shriner-Cahn: Welcome
to smashing the plateau.

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We help you get unstuck so you
can do what you love and get paid.

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What you're worth consistently.

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I'm your host David Schreiner con
today on smashing the plateau.

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I'm speaking with chief strategist
and founder of lympic brand evolution.

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Kevin Perlmutter, Kevin appeared
on going solo in late 2020.

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He had just started his business at
that time, following a long stellar
career in corporate in today's episode,
Kevin shares, why he wanted to create
a branded business and how he did it.

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Stay with us to hear all the details.

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In today's episode, Kevin shares
the importance of being a part
of a peer advisory committee.

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We created the smashing the
plateau community, so that
members would be supportive of one
another's consulting businesses.

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That's why the comradery of supportive
collaborative colleagues is the
foundation of the smashing the plateau
community inside the community.

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You'll also find a range of tools and
resources to support your consulting
business, access to experts and
answers to your burning question.

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Check out the smashing the plateau
communities so that you can build
a successful consulting business on
your own terms, doing what you love
and getting paid, where you're worth.

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Learn more@smashingtheplateau.com
slash community.

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That's smashing the plateau.com/community.

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Now let's welcome, Kevin.

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Kevin is chief strategist and founder
of limbic brand evolution, a brand
strategy and newer marketing consultancy.

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He loves to work with CMOs brand and
business leaders who want people to
feel more connected to their brand.

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Kevin has created the limbic
sparks approach to brand strategy.

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He answers the question.

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Why should people care about your brand?

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And he supports the evolution of
brand messaging service offerings.

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And experiences to spark brand
desire with emotional intelligence.

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Kevin, welcome back to the show.

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Thank you so

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Kevin Perlmutter: much for having me
great to be with you again, David.

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Yeah,

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David Shriner-Cahn: it's my pleasure.

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And, I'm looking forward to actually
getting an update from you on how
your own business has evolved.

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The last time you were on
it, you aren't going solo.

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And in late 2020 and your business,
had, at that point had been around
for a year or so about then,
You were off to a great start.

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And, maybe we should just
start with an update.

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How have things been.

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Kevin Perlmutter: I've
been having a blast.

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First of all, I love what I'm doing.

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I'm never looking back.

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I'm going to be in business for myself for
as long as I can envision and businesses.

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Good.

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it's been tough with, the state
of the world that we're living in
these days, but honestly I would
rather not be doing anything else.

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And the momentum in my
business is picking up.

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That

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David Shriner-Cahn: is so great to hear.

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And particularly for other
folks that are either.

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Desiring to go solo or
maybe have gone solo.

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And the beginning is always the hardest
knowing that you can look forward and
never want to be doing anything else.

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I think it's great for
people to hear that.

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Kevin Perlmutter: Yeah.

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It's, the trajectory that I'm on for
the last several years and honestly,
throughout my whole career, but with
a major step of going independent
in 2019, for me, it's always been
about focusing on what matters most.

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I'm always looking to be in a situation
where I'm learning new things.

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I'm inspired by what I'm doing,
where I'm on the edge of the frontier
on, in the work that I'm doing.

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I come from, many years ago advertising
and as the mobile internet evolved and
online reviews involved, I moved into
brand consulting and customer experience.

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And then I moved into Sonic branding
and learning about neuroscience
and the way the brain works.

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And now I'm focused on emotional
insights and how they can
create a competitive advantage.

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And I always want to be on the edge of a
frontier and focusing on the things that
are important and emerging on the scene.

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But it's also about alignment with my
personal values and my life and being
independent gives me the opportunity to
have control of my time, to work with
the people who I want to work with,
whether they're clients or collaborators.

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It allows me to spend time informing.

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Where I love to be, and nobody
can tell me whether or not I have
enough vacation days to go there.

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I do.

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I'm a woodworker.

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I build furniture.

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I have a shop in Vermont and I have
a shop in my home in New Jersey.

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I love running.

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And I'm also since, being independent,
I've become a board member of a nonprofit.

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Called rise.

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It's a social services, nonprofit
in central New Jersey, helping
families who are in need.

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And, I do a lot of brand development work.

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just traditional volunteer
work, handing out food at food
drives, kind of work, with rise.

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So I'm really focusing on what matters
most in my life and in my business and
focusing on what matters most is also
how I help my clients evolve their brand.

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David Shriner-Cahn: That
is so great to hear.

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First of all, congratulations on
everything you've achieved so far.

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Thank you.

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And being able to integrate what's
most important to you in your
business and your personal life.

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One of the things that I see
professionals struggle with when
they go from full-time employee in a
corporate sense, To being independent
as a consultant is in the beginning.

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It's all about getting enough business
to just support your lifestyle.

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Unlike going from job to job where your
income may go from a hundred percent to
zero when the job ends, and it goes from
zero to a hundred percent, the day you
walk into a job when you're building your
own consulting business, it doesn't go
from zero to a hundred percent overnight.

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It often takes time.

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So the beginning of people
are trying really hard to.

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Maintain their lifestyle
and get business up.

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But one of the things that I see happen
quite frequently is they create a business
where the business model ends up being.

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I would say almost like a glorified
job where you don't have a boss
in the corporate setting, but
your boss is your own business.

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So your boss is actually yourself,
but you end up not having the kind of
freedom that you've just described,
where you can spend time in Vermont.

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You can spend time running.

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You can spend time working on, on hobbies.

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You can spend time volunteering
and also run a successful business
to make enough money, to be
able to support your lifestyle.

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They often feel like they end up
having their business, run them
rather than the other way around.

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And it sounds like you've done a pretty
good job of running your business as
opposed to having your business run.

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You.

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Kevin Perlmutter: I feel like
I'm doing a pretty good job.

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like any entrepreneur, the head games
gets you all the time and you're always
wondering if you're doing things right.

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And you're always wondering if
it's enough or if it's too much,
or if it's about to be too much
or it's about to be not enough.

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And all of that goes through
my head and I think I am.

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I'm quite, my brain goes in a lot of
different directions, like a lot of
entrepreneurs, but the fact of the
matter is that I'm playing a long game.

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This is what I intend to do
for a long period of time.

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I'm very driven to not only be successful,
but also to, improve things as I do.

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That's also part of my DNA evolution as
part of my DNA, my business is called
limbic brand evolution, because I believe
that there's always an opportunity to fine
tune evolve and get better at something.

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And I'm constantly monitoring how
it's going and looking for things
that are working and building.

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I have a, I'm looking at my wall
right now, which I have filled
with whiteboard paper and I
have a big chart that says work.

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Not working try this.

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And I just keep that list updated.

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I focus on the things that are going
and I evolve and fix and try things
that might be new opportunities.

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And I just keep experimenting.

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David Shriner-Cahn: Kevin, tell me a
little bit about your business model,
because when, again, one of the struggles,
man, Entrepreneurs face when they go
solo is creating a business model that,
that supports what they want so that
they can end up running their businesses,
as opposed to the other way around.

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What have you decided to do in
terms of your business model?

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Kevin Perlmutter: let's
start with what I do.

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I'm a brand strategy and
neuro marketing consultant.

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I help brands create stronger connections
with the people who they want to reach.

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I help people feel more connected
to the brands that my clients.

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And I do that by providing
a brand strategy consulting.

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I am very wedded to emotional
insights because emotion is the
largest driver of loyalty for brands.

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It's the thing that matters most in
the relationship that any business.

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B2B or B2C or otherwise has
with its customers because,
we instinctively gravitate to
the things that we care about.

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We instinctively move toward the things
that make us feel good and move away
from the things that make us feel bad.

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So what I'm helping my clients do is
recognize what they're doing in the world
to make people's lives better and express
that in a way that'll be motivating
to the people who they want to read.

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And what I'm also doing is I'm helping
them understand more about what makes
people tick, the people who they want to
reach, understand what their needs wants
and desires are and how can they address
those needs, wants and desires in a way
that feels like it was designed for the
customers who they're trying to reach.

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So my business model is consulting.

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I am doing a lot of
investigative research.

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I'm doing a lot of qualitative.

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Interviewing and qualitative research to
help my clients get to a brand strategy.

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That's going to be emotionally
motivating to the people that they want
to reach and relevant to their lives.

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And then I'm providing support in
how they activate that strategy and
communications, the evolution of how
they present their services, the customer
experiences that they create and other
business and marketing challenges
that they might be trying to solve.

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That's what I do.

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My business model is.

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That I work with clients
on projects on a fee basis.

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I like flat fees.

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I know how long it takes me to
do the work that I need to do.

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Within reason I can develop a
fee estimate for a client based
on an agreed scope of work.

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And over a period of time,
I'm not very interested in.

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Having nickel and dime
conversations with clients about,
I don't work on an hourly basis.

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These are not things that I care to get
into, nor is it good for any business
relationship nor does it represent the
value of what I'm bringing to my clients?

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So the clients who I work
with, we agree on a scope of.

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We agree on a fee proposal over
a period of time, that includes
a variety of deliverables.

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And then as the work evolves over
time, we extend that scope of work
if necessary, if needed, if desired.

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And we keep going some
of my projects last for.

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A month, some of them last
for nine, 10 months with
extensions of the original scope.

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That's the model that I go after.

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David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah, no, it
sounds like a very healthy model, but
one of the things that I have great
difficulty with when it comes to
business models for consultants, is it.

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Dealing with a time-based pricing model.

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The time is it doesn't necessarily
have a relationship to the value
that you provide to the client.

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And in fact, I believe that there's
a strong conflict of interest between
the consultant and the client.

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If you're using time-based billing,
because if the client has a problem
to be solved, You want the client to,
to communicate with you, if there's
an issue, which is going to take time
and you want to be able to solve the
problem in the best way possible.

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For the client, if it's a time-based
business model, the client wants
the number of hours to be as
small as possible, which doesn't
necessarily provide the best benefit.

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And the consultant wants the number
of hours to be as high as possible
because it's more financially
rewarding for the consultant.

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Again, doesn't have anything
to do with the value that.

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So

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Kevin Perlmutter: I agree completely.

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I have no interest and I'm never
going to work on an hourly basis for
I'm reporting my time to a client.

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I don't even necessarily, it's not
important how many hours I plan to
work or how I'm thinking about the
value of those hours in my head.

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What's important is that my client feels
like they're getting everything they need
from me, that they have my full attention.

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Within reason during the period of time
that we're working together and that
they're getting the value that they're
paying for in the deliverables and that
I'm making sure that's what's happening.

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And to me, that works really well.

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and all of the clients that I've worked
with since I started my company have
agreed to those types of scopes of work.

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And I've not had one client who ever felt
like they didn't get value from her work.

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David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah,
that speaks highly of you.

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And it also speaks highly of
the relationship you're were
able to develop with clients.

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And it, it also speaks to, did
the fact that you have good
clients who are respectful of
your value and also of your time.

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Kevin Perlmutter: And it's important
for me to have good clients.

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when I talk about focusing on the things
that matter most, it's also about spending
time with people who I want to be around
the clients who I choose to work with.

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Look into working with me and who
ultimately we agree to work together.

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These are people who I
want to spend time with.

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I've had conversations with potential
clients where I've not been very
active in next steps because I
just didn't think it was going to
be a great working relationship.

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I've also spent, time, a lot of time
with the clients that have decided
to work with me, and many of them
were already or have become friends
and we stay in touch on other issues.

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So it's really about, again,
getting to do the work.

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I love with people who
I enjoy being around.

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And that's how I focus my efforts.

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And the other thing is I work
independently, but I also occasionally
will collaborate with other types of
marketing services, providers, people
who don't have my skills at their table
and want to bring me into, or I want
to bring into a project that we can do
together for a client, which is more of
a one-to-one partnership and a project.

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And there are also opportunities
that I have to bring in freelancers
to my work, whether it's design
talent or something else.

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And again, I choose to work with people
who I enjoy spending time with, because
we're going to get into it together.

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We have a good working relationship.

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We know how to, make
each other's work better.

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And we have respect for each
other's process and time and skills.

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and again, those are the people
who I just love doing work with.

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There are partners out there who I
just can't wait for the next project.

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David Shriner-Cahn: Kevin, one of
the challenges that consultants face,
especially in the first few years of
their business is lead generation.

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if you've been doing things for a
long time, and in particular, you have
established a reputation and people in
your field know about you over time.

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They may be reaching out to you more
than you're working on lead development,
but in the beginning, often you need
to work on getting those leads in.

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What have you found has worked well for
you when it comes to lead generation?

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Kevin Perlmutter: There were a few things,
when I started my business three years
ago, almost three years ago, I made
a decision off the bat that first of
all, I was going to go out as a brand.

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It's my background.

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I have respect for brands.

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I think brands.

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I didn't want to be Kevin promo or
freelance brand strategy consultant.

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I wanted to be the chief strategist
of a brand with a point of view
and a specific way of working
in a specific type of service.

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So for me establishing my brand and what
it's all about was an important first
step, because it gives me differentiation
in the market and it allows people
to know that it's bigger than just.

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The second thing is really about
maintaining and connecting and
strengthening the relationships
with people, and trust
and who know and trust me.

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So for me, I don't know, I've had five
or six jobs in my career working for
other people and, Every one of them has
come from a direct relationship that
introduced me to that next employer.

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I'm not big into, believing that a lot
of the tactics that salespeople use to
reach people they've never met before are
going to be as successful in my business.

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It might be for some products or
services, but for my business,
it's about relationships.

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It's about building on the
relationships that I've already had.

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It's about meeting new people and
establishing strong relationships.

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It's about earning people's
trust, getting them to know who
I am and what I'm all about.

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I'm part of a, of a networking group
called collaborate X, which I've been
a part of for about a year and a half.

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I've met a tremendous
number of wonderful people.

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And that's expanded my network
of relationships from where it
was when I started my business.

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And it continues to be a wonderful
way to, The part of a networking
community, that is a pure advisory group.

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We support each other, we inspire
each other and we also have the
opportunity to, bring each other into
work sometimes, or introduce ourselves
to someone it's not heavy handed.

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Like some networking groups
are in terms of passing leads.

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It's more about peer advisory,
but it works both ways.

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And then the other thing is
I'm very active on LinkedIn
and I'm I write articles.

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So I'm a featured writer for a branding
bag, which is a brand strategy and
a brand management online magazine.

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That's a, well-regarded around the
world, in my field and among clients
who are brand strategy type clients.

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And, I've for the past year
and a half I've written.

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And published nine articles with them.

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We did a webinar last January, and
we're going to do another one in
a month or so on another topic.

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So writing is important to me.

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I have my own podcast, let's talk limbic
sparks, which is a podcast where I get
to interview people who work on the
client side, who work for companies
for brands and understand how they
are driving growth in their business.

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By turning emotional insight
into a competitive advantage.

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So they're practically doing the things
that I'm coaching my clients on doing.

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So I get to hear those real stories
and on LinkedIn, I stay present.

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So people, in marketing, it's
called awareness and familiarity.

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I call it reminding people that I'm alive
and that I, I'm the brand strategist you
call when you want to, build emotional
insight into how you're more successful.

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David Shriner-Cahn: Kevin, what do
you think is the most important thing?

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To keep in mind when you're
starting a consulting business.

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If you want to have a branded
consultancy, like you've done.

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Kevin Perlmutter: I
think you need stamina.

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said, what's the most important
thing to keep in mind.

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It's not going to be easy.

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have stamina.

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You got to keep going every
day, you got to wake up every
day and keep pushing forward.

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Keep making connections, reconnecting
with people who, you know, and
like I coach my own clients.

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You need to focus, connect, and evolve.

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You need to focus on, the unit.

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And desirable, motivating purpose of your
brand, what it is you're in the world
to do, to make people's lives better.

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You need to connect, which is
strengthening connections with the
people you want to reach by understanding
what their emotional needs desires
are and how they want to feel.

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And then you have to continue to evolve,
creating communications and experiences
and offerings, that address what people
care most about and what they need.

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This is how I help my clients.

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And I apply my own thinking
to my own business.

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And again, I'm focusing on the
things that matter most, and I'm
helping my clients spark brand
desire with emotional intelligence.

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David Shriner-Cahn: Well said,
Kevin, is there anything else you
want to mention before we close?

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Kevin Perlmutter: I, again, I really
appreciate you having me on the broadcast.

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I'm always thrilled to speak with
you and I'm just happy to be here.

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Thanks.

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David Shriner-Cahn: we've covered a lot
of territory, and in particular, A lot of
focus on how you have built your business.

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First of all, congratulations
again, on how you've done it.

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Yes.

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Stamina is really important.

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Persistence is really important.

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Things like this don't happen overnight.

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If somebody wants to get in touch
with you or learn more about.

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What you've done or your business or
access any of the resources you have.

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I know that you mentioned that you
have a podcast and you write regularly.

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If anybody wants to access any of
that or get in touch with you, where
would be the best place for them.

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Certainly,

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Kevin Perlmutter: people could certainly
find me on LinkedIn, Kevin Perlmutter,
but the best place to learn about all the
things that I'm up to is that my website,
which is limbic brand evolution.com
and it limbic brand evolution.com.

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You'll find information on my, approach
to brand strategy rooted in the limbic
sparks approach that I've created.

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They'll you'll find an emotional
intelligence blog where there are
articles and podcasts that I've written.

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Podcasts that I've been on and you'll
find the limbic sparks podcast page
where you'll see interviews with
brand leaders that I've had the chance
to interview over the last year.

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And you'll also find on every page in
the top banner, a meet with Kevin link.

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And if anybody wants to set up
some time with me, click that link.

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Find a slot.

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It sounds

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David Shriner-Cahn: great.

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Kevin, I want to thank you again for
coming back and being a guest again.

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This time on smashing the plateau.

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My guest today has been chief strategist
and founder of limbic brand evolution.

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Kevin Perlmutter.

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Thank you again, Kevin, for joining us.

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Kevin Perlmutter: Thank you so much.

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David Shriner-Cahn: When you
visit the smashing the plateau
website@smashingtheplateau.com,
you'll find a summary of each episode,
along with the links we mentioned on
the show in today's episode, Kevin
Perlmutter shares the importance of
being part of a peer advisory committee.

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We created the smash in
that plateau community.

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So that members would be supportive of
one another's consulting businesses.

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That's why the comradery of supportive
collaborative colleagues is the
foundation of the smashing the plateau
community inside the community.

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You'll also find a range of
tools and resources to support
your consulting business.

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Access to experts and answers
to your burning questions.

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Check out the smashing the
plateau communities so that you
can build a successful consulting
business on your own terms.

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Doing what you love and getting paid.

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What you're worth.

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Learn more@smashingtheplateau.com
slash community.

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That's smashing the plateau.com/community.

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Thank you for taking the
time to listen to our show.

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I'll see you on our next episode.