1 00:00:16,698 --> 00:00:19,578 Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. 2 00:00:19,608 --> 00:00:20,808 I'm DJ Sir Daniel, 3 00:00:21,468 --> 00:00:26,438 Jay Ray: and my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. 4 00:00:26,748 --> 00:00:28,458 And Sir Daniel. 5 00:00:29,088 --> 00:00:29,538 Sir Daniel: Yo, 6 00:00:29,628 --> 00:00:30,468 I've been itching to 7 00:00:30,468 --> 00:00:31,218 have this conversation. 8 00:00:31,308 --> 00:00:33,798 We've been itching to have this conversation for many. 9 00:00:34,338 --> 00:00:35,058 Jay Ray: Yes. 10 00:00:35,088 --> 00:00:35,808 Yes. 11 00:00:35,868 --> 00:00:40,848 And it is time that we dive into a unique. 12 00:00:41,193 --> 00:00:44,613 Part of black music culture. 13 00:00:45,003 --> 00:00:47,313 Sir Daniel: very unique, very. 14 00:00:48,243 --> 00:00:49,173 niche. 15 00:00:49,443 --> 00:00:49,743 Yes. 16 00:00:49,773 --> 00:00:51,303 Very, yeah, very niche. 17 00:00:51,603 --> 00:00:53,883 Because these are very niche songs. 18 00:00:54,093 --> 00:00:54,333 Yes. 19 00:00:54,393 --> 00:00:55,683 And when you hear them, 20 00:00:55,983 --> 00:00:57,363 you almost forget about them. 21 00:00:57,363 --> 00:01:04,193 But then when you hear them, they have such a, Um, they have such a nice groove that you're like, oh yeah, this is, I remember this jam. 22 00:01:04,193 --> 00:01:05,993 And you just start bopping along to it. 23 00:01:06,363 --> 00:01:15,916 Jay Ray: But we need to talk about these, these, songs because once again, they are unique and interesting stories and it's, it's just, and they. 24 00:01:16,356 --> 00:01:18,906 Have taken black culture by storm. 25 00:01:19,146 --> 00:01:19,446 Yes. 26 00:01:19,446 --> 00:01:20,646 In their day. 27 00:01:21,006 --> 00:01:24,276 And so we're gonna talk about "Another Man" by Barbara Mason. 28 00:01:24,276 --> 00:01:37,176 And we have a guest that we have been wanting to appear on Queue Points for a long time to just rap with us from a black woman's perspective exactly about. 29 00:01:38,116 --> 00:01:39,676 These songs. 30 00:01:39,676 --> 00:01:41,926 So we gonna bring our guest in. 31 00:01:41,926 --> 00:01:45,046 But before we do that, we gotta run down the bio. 32 00:01:45,406 --> 00:01:47,146 Uh, Starr Rocque is with us. 33 00:01:47,206 --> 00:01:49,066 Starr is a journalist and author. 34 00:01:49,066 --> 00:01:59,776 Her work has been featured by Fast Company, vibe Magazine, people Magazine, VH one, essence Magazine, American Urban Radio Networks, A URN and more. 35 00:02:00,106 --> 00:02:03,886 Her debut novel bloggers can't be trusted. 36 00:02:04,331 --> 00:02:09,341 Is available on Amazon Queue Points family. 37 00:02:09,491 --> 00:02:14,141 Without further ado, Starr Rocque is in the building. 38 00:02:14,141 --> 00:02:15,371 What's up, Starr? 39 00:02:15,411 --> 00:02:16,101 What's up, Starr? 40 00:02:16,121 --> 00:02:16,451 Look, I. 41 00:02:16,451 --> 00:02:18,521 Was, I was for the longest. 42 00:02:18,851 --> 00:02:19,061 What's up? 43 00:02:20,636 --> 00:02:20,856 Sir Daniel: Yes. 44 00:02:21,606 --> 00:02:23,496 Love to get, know how you're who 45 00:02:23,576 --> 00:02:23,776 Jay Ray: you are. 46 00:02:27,721 --> 00:02:31,466 Sir Daniel: It is been a minute since we saw you, our IRL, because we all got together. 47 00:02:31,466 --> 00:02:36,656 We got got to see each other in person at the Boombox boombox event this past, well, August. 48 00:02:37,046 --> 00:02:37,166 Mm-hmm. 49 00:02:37,266 --> 00:02:38,936 Well, August of 20, 24. 50 00:02:39,228 --> 00:02:39,408 And 51 00:02:39,446 --> 00:02:39,536 Mm-hmm. 52 00:02:39,537 --> 00:02:39,538 And 53 00:02:39,541 --> 00:02:43,856 so we got to hang out, we got to chill and um, and chop it up a little bit. 54 00:02:43,856 --> 00:02:48,596 And when we were just, we were trying to figure out, hmm, we need a black woman. 55 00:02:48,686 --> 00:02:48,776 Mm-hmm. 56 00:02:48,826 --> 00:02:51,746 We need a black woman who is versed in music Yes. 57 00:02:51,776 --> 00:02:53,096 who can speak to this. 58 00:02:53,096 --> 00:02:53,186 Mm-hmm. 59 00:02:53,811 --> 00:03:01,011 Cultural, these cultural phenomenons, because while they are, they are niche songs, they truly hit a nerve. 60 00:03:01,011 --> 00:03:04,671 They struck a nerve in the community, specifically the black community. 61 00:03:05,121 --> 00:03:09,201 So first and foremost, before we go any further, we want to check in with you. 62 00:03:09,321 --> 00:03:10,791 How you feeling, how you doing? 63 00:03:12,126 --> 00:03:13,026 Starr Rocque: I am doing all right. 64 00:03:13,026 --> 00:03:19,836 Given, given the circumstances, you know, there's only so much you control in your, in your personal life, but you still gotta live in this world, right? 65 00:03:19,836 --> 00:03:20,706 This group project. 66 00:03:21,066 --> 00:03:23,041 Um, so I'm, I'm okay. 67 00:03:24,321 --> 00:03:25,431 Sir Daniel: I totally get it. 68 00:03:25,431 --> 00:03:27,651 I love that you call life a group project Yes. 69 00:03:27,651 --> 00:03:31,671 Because there's always somebody that's doing the most and there's always somebody that's kind of slacking. 70 00:03:31,761 --> 00:03:32,421 I love that. 71 00:03:32,721 --> 00:03:33,861 I'm gonna have to use that. 72 00:03:34,731 --> 00:03:41,461 So, we are talking about today, Starr as you heard in the intro, we're talking about "Another Man" by Barbara Mason. 73 00:03:41,962 --> 00:03:48,502 Starr Rocque: And Sir Daniel, it's so funny 'cause you said in the beginning, sometimes you'll hear a song and it's just a bop and you don't really think about the lyrics. 74 00:03:48,742 --> 00:03:51,292 Now let me say, I'm an eighties baby, born in the early eighties. 75 00:03:51,292 --> 00:03:54,412 So you know, the song came out like, I think like 84. 76 00:03:55,072 --> 00:03:55,162 Mm-hmm. 77 00:03:55,163 --> 00:03:56,602 So I was, I was a little kid. 78 00:03:56,602 --> 00:03:56,722 Mm-hmm. 79 00:03:56,962 --> 00:03:58,012 At the family barbecue. 80 00:03:58,042 --> 00:03:59,842 Like this was a song that was in rotation. 81 00:03:59,872 --> 00:04:00,682 'cause it was a bop. 82 00:04:00,767 --> 00:04:01,057 Jay Ray: Yeah. 83 00:04:01,192 --> 00:04:04,912 Starr Rocque: And I can't recall anyone ever like. 84 00:04:05,497 --> 00:04:08,317 Not, I can't recall anyone around me making a big deal about it. 85 00:04:08,317 --> 00:04:10,117 People were just going along singing the lyrics. 86 00:04:10,642 --> 00:04:17,512 As a kid, my interpretation of the song was that she meant that if your man cheated on you, then you cheat back. 87 00:04:18,167 --> 00:04:23,362 The, the whole, the bi, the bisexuality of it just went right over my head. 88 00:04:23,362 --> 00:04:26,782 And then when you guys reached out about this, I was like, wait a minute. 89 00:04:26,782 --> 00:04:27,442 "Another Man", 90 00:04:27,772 --> 00:04:28,132 this song Mm-hmm. 91 00:04:28,615 --> 00:04:29,035 Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm. 92 00:04:29,452 --> 00:04:32,092 Starr Rocque: to it like, oh, the whole time. 93 00:04:32,647 --> 00:04:34,102 Yes, Yes, 94 00:04:34,752 --> 00:04:34,972 Sir Daniel: So 95 00:04:34,972 --> 00:04:35,372 I gotta be, 96 00:04:35,382 --> 00:04:35,732 least 97 00:04:35,732 --> 00:04:36,572 Starr Rocque: from beginning to end. 98 00:04:37,832 --> 00:04:39,137 Sir Daniel: so, I gotta be transparent. 99 00:04:39,137 --> 00:04:44,117 Like I remember being, I, I, remember hearing "Another Man". 100 00:04:45,457 --> 00:04:46,297 In passing. 101 00:04:46,297 --> 00:04:46,507 But 102 00:04:46,507 --> 00:04:54,907 no, it didn't really stick, but I became re familiar with it when, um, when Notorious BIG sampled it on his, own. 103 00:04:54,907 --> 00:04:55,627 Right. 104 00:04:55,632 --> 00:04:55,832 Mm-hmm. 105 00:04:55,912 --> 00:04:58,268 on the, was not life after, was it Life after death? 106 00:04:58,273 --> 00:04:58,717 It was life after. 107 00:04:58,717 --> 00:04:59,558 It was the life after after death. 108 00:04:59,563 --> 00:04:59,712 Life 109 00:04:59,712 --> 00:04:59,912 Starr Rocque: after. 110 00:05:00,127 --> 00:05:01,207 It was life after death. 111 00:05:01,207 --> 00:05:01,208 Mm-hmm. 112 00:05:01,214 --> 00:05:01,312 Yep. 113 00:05:01,452 --> 00:05:01,897 Sir Daniel: And it 114 00:05:01,897 --> 00:05:04,477 was a duet with him and Lil Kim call another. 115 00:05:04,657 --> 00:05:04,927 Yep. 116 00:05:05,317 --> 00:05:06,038 And mm-hmm. 117 00:05:06,117 --> 00:05:08,377 you know, and of course the groove is just so funky. 118 00:05:08,377 --> 00:05:11,272 And then when you go back and you listen, it was like, oh, oh. 119 00:05:11,272 --> 00:05:13,072 She said she, he did what? 120 00:05:13,522 --> 00:05:15,142 I hope he wasn't aware of my, what? 121 00:05:15,232 --> 00:05:15,892 I caught him. 122 00:05:15,952 --> 00:05:17,212 I caught them holding hands. 123 00:05:17,332 --> 00:05:22,492 And so this whole subject matter starts to unfurl when you listen to the original song. 124 00:05:22,552 --> 00:05:25,192 "Another Man" about her. 125 00:05:25,792 --> 00:05:29,842 Um, describing this man that she was once in love with Mm-hmm. 126 00:05:30,142 --> 00:05:34,432 and then picking up on quote unquote feminine mannerisms 127 00:05:34,552 --> 00:05:34,732 Jay Ray: right? 128 00:05:34,732 --> 00:05:34,822 Mm-hmm. 129 00:05:35,062 --> 00:05:41,062 Sir Daniel: and then catching him on Market Street, which I guess the implication is because she's from Philly 130 00:05:41,122 --> 00:05:42,472 Jay Ray: Market Well, I mean Market Street. 131 00:05:42,472 --> 00:05:49,792 She's so, uh, uh, Barbara Mason is from Philly, so of course this song, uh, was written by Butch Ingram and I think, but is from like Jersey. 132 00:05:50,512 --> 00:05:52,372 That's a fun fact about both of these songs. 133 00:05:52,372 --> 00:05:53,842 Both of these songs were written by men. 134 00:05:55,077 --> 00:05:55,467 Ah. 135 00:05:55,467 --> 00:05:55,647 we put 136 00:05:55,647 --> 00:05:56,367 that to the side. 137 00:05:56,367 --> 00:05:57,597 That was my fun fact. 138 00:05:57,867 --> 00:06:04,137 So let's, let's keep that in there when we think, when we talk about these songs, but I didn't think about that. 139 00:06:04,137 --> 00:06:15,147 Market Street is just like a main thoroughfare in Philadelphia, so No, it's literally like Broad Street, market Street are like the two streets downtown now said in. 140 00:06:15,387 --> 00:06:17,217 84 when this song came out. 141 00:06:17,217 --> 00:06:21,567 I don't know what Market Street was given like, so, you know, cities evolve. 142 00:06:23,067 --> 00:06:23,397 Sir Daniel: Right? 143 00:06:24,477 --> 00:06:28,197 Jay Ray: But to that point, both of your points, like I remembered. 144 00:06:28,692 --> 00:06:32,142 "Another Man" as just like a eighties bop, 145 00:06:32,442 --> 00:06:32,922 right? 146 00:06:32,982 --> 00:06:33,072 Yes. 147 00:06:33,402 --> 00:06:41,322 Because the beat was so ubiquitous with the era and also the baseline, the, the synth baseline 148 00:06:41,322 --> 00:06:41,562 in a, 149 00:06:41,562 --> 00:06:42,552 in "Another Man". 150 00:06:42,557 --> 00:06:42,567 Mm-hmm. 151 00:06:42,907 --> 00:06:48,762 It's just kind of one of those base lines that you hear like remnants of like over time, before and after this song. 152 00:06:49,302 --> 00:06:49,872 Um. 153 00:06:50,487 --> 00:06:55,377 So I didn't really realize the subject matter until the nineties, you know what I mean? 154 00:06:55,377 --> 00:07:02,217 Is when I first was like, oh, that's what "Another Man" is about. 155 00:07:02,277 --> 00:07:08,697 And yes, later on I picked up, after I got my political hat on and I started doing my own thing. 156 00:07:08,937 --> 00:07:16,857 I'm like, and then I picked up on like the language that was being used, and I'm like, oh my goodness, I didn't know. 157 00:07:17,322 --> 00:07:27,162 That's what, and so I didn't know how to take it then because with this new lens that I was looking through, I was like, oh, is this song like harmful? 158 00:07:27,642 --> 00:07:29,472 But then I'm like, it's storytelling. 159 00:07:29,832 --> 00:07:39,942 So I'm curious like y'all, thoughts on Man as like a song, like, you know, however you want to take that. 160 00:07:39,942 --> 00:07:40,812 What are your thoughts? 161 00:07:41,201 --> 00:07:42,191 Starr Rocque: It's a good song. 162 00:07:42,196 --> 00:07:42,456 Yeah. 163 00:07:42,611 --> 00:07:45,641 Like it's drama, you know, black people love a good drama. 164 00:07:45,641 --> 00:07:52,511 It's kind of like the musical version of like some kind of, I don't know, like a, a Tyler Perry movie, for lack of a better way to phrase it. 165 00:07:52,511 --> 00:07:56,981 And I know we could go into how Tyler Perry uses Yes. 166 00:07:56,981 --> 00:08:02,591 Bisexuality and homosexuality in ways that are actually very stereotypical and harmful. 167 00:08:02,621 --> 00:08:02,891 Yes. 168 00:08:02,921 --> 00:08:05,801 But I digress with that for song purposes. 169 00:08:05,891 --> 00:08:09,581 It's a good song, like it's a good dramatic song and. 170 00:08:09,886 --> 00:08:13,096 It's, it's funny because she stole the man from somebody else, right? 171 00:08:13,431 --> 00:08:15,731 So, right. 172 00:08:15,961 --> 00:08:19,306 That it's a drama full event. 173 00:08:19,306 --> 00:08:29,431 And I think that's part of why some of the things, some of the nuances of, of this, of whoever this, this other man is kind of, might go over people's heads. 174 00:08:29,431 --> 00:08:32,206 It's definitely one of those, like, you gotta listen to it again and again. 175 00:08:32,296 --> 00:08:34,876 And like for real, because like I said, I grew up hearing it. 176 00:08:35,426 --> 00:08:37,526 At parties and barbecues and thought nothing of it. 177 00:08:37,526 --> 00:08:39,956 So that's also a marker of a good song, right? 178 00:08:39,956 --> 00:08:41,876 Like you almost get so lost in the rhythm. 179 00:08:42,596 --> 00:08:45,026 You're not even really listening to the lyrics. 180 00:08:45,026 --> 00:08:48,836 But then when you listen to the lyrics, you get what we're doing today, right? 181 00:08:48,836 --> 00:08:50,606 You have conversations like this today. 182 00:08:50,606 --> 00:08:57,476 But yeah, it's kind of like a precursor to like, um, I hate bringing up this man's name, but like a trapped in the closet, right? 183 00:08:57,481 --> 00:08:57,651 Yes. 184 00:08:57,656 --> 00:08:57,866 Like that 185 00:08:57,866 --> 00:08:58,316 whole 186 00:08:58,316 --> 00:08:58,611 like Mm-hmm. 187 00:08:58,891 --> 00:09:00,851 Dramatic series of events. 188 00:09:00,851 --> 00:09:03,596 Like we love a good dramatic song and if it's a bop, that's even better. 189 00:09:03,716 --> 00:09:04,256 Sir Daniel: Yes. 190 00:09:05,636 --> 00:09:05,846 To 191 00:09:06,146 --> 00:09:06,776 true. 192 00:09:06,956 --> 00:09:17,846 Um, I was, I was thinking about Robert also in that, that whole dramatic theme of, um, the telling a story and a lot of our greatest, um. 193 00:09:18,116 --> 00:09:22,556 Our greatest songs in the Black American Songbook our stories. 194 00:09:22,676 --> 00:09:30,056 They have a narrative and there's a, there's a, a beginning, a middle, and an end, and you know, or it goes onto a part two. 195 00:09:30,416 --> 00:09:32,876 So yes, it's like, okay, we, so we just included that. 196 00:09:33,356 --> 00:09:36,986 It's funky, which makes it even harder to put down. 197 00:09:37,466 --> 00:09:42,146 I just, to your, to your point, Starr, it made me think about how. 198 00:09:43,286 --> 00:09:43,796 um, 199 00:09:43,796 --> 00:09:49,796 A lot of other artists use the theme of cheating mm-hmm. 200 00:09:50,636 --> 00:09:52,316 and bisexuality. 201 00:09:52,751 --> 00:09:56,141 Uh, specifically bisexuality became like a marketing ploy. 202 00:09:56,711 --> 00:10:06,911 I don't know if you remember in the mid two thousands, there was an author by the name of J King who rose the prominence when, um, he dropped his book. 203 00:10:07,271 --> 00:10:09,101 called on the dl Yes. 204 00:10:09,191 --> 00:10:10,276 and he, was on Yes. 205 00:10:10,476 --> 00:10:11,831 Remember, was an Oprah Winfrey show Mm-hmm. 206 00:10:12,341 --> 00:10:22,526 and it was like a two part series and it was so dramatic in the, you know, um, and, uh, right after that, Terry McMillan famous author. 207 00:10:22,526 --> 00:10:22,616 mm-hmm. 208 00:10:23,163 --> 00:10:24,956 Um, had, um, that's right. 209 00:10:25,016 --> 00:10:30,116 come to the forefront because her, her then husband, um, came out mm-hmm. 210 00:10:30,356 --> 00:10:32,996 to her and then they appeared on Oprah. 211 00:10:33,176 --> 00:10:38,546 And then there was this conversation about b about black men, specifically black men, Mm-hmm. 212 00:10:38,643 --> 00:10:42,926 um, Um, living these double lives and how harmful they are to black women. 213 00:10:43,286 --> 00:11:00,836 So it's like, the reason why we wanted to discuss this, to discuss these songs is that the, the songs are, have a, have a, a Alter effect, another effect that we don't talk about and it's the alarming of, of black women consumers. 214 00:11:01,226 --> 00:11:09,086 And then the effect afterwards of this heightened awareness, this heightened, um. 215 00:11:09,776 --> 00:11:19,286 Yeah, the super heightened awareness of the men that are in their lives, and then the almo, and then the harmful behaviors that come after it. 216 00:11:19,646 --> 00:11:26,911 Where we see nowadays, where we have these moments online where we, we have women calling other men, sassy Yeah. 217 00:11:26,996 --> 00:11:27,611 and sassy. 218 00:11:27,611 --> 00:11:27,746 Jay Ray: Used. 219 00:11:27,746 --> 00:11:28,226 to use mm-hmm. 220 00:11:28,653 --> 00:11:28,976 Sir Daniel: uh, Zest. 221 00:11:28,976 --> 00:11:30,111 It's weaponized, Mm-hmm. 222 00:11:30,206 --> 00:11:37,256 sassy, and zesty are weaponized for men who don't necessarily do things traditionally or who are. 223 00:11:37,256 --> 00:11:37,676 right. 224 00:11:37,946 --> 00:11:42,416 In touch with, with quote unquote feminine ways Mm-hmm. 225 00:11:42,656 --> 00:11:43,526 or, or feelings. 226 00:11:43,916 --> 00:11:47,846 And so when you think about it Starr and you think about how. 227 00:11:48,806 --> 00:11:57,506 The topic and these songs, and these movies and these books are kind of directed at you as a black woman. 228 00:11:57,511 --> 00:11:57,801 Yeah. 229 00:11:57,903 --> 00:11:59,366 Do Do you think they are? 230 00:11:59,816 --> 00:12:01,886 Do you think it's harmful, do you think? 231 00:12:01,916 --> 00:12:10,256 Um, especially when it comes to the relationship between black women and black men, um, in general. 232 00:12:10,376 --> 00:12:11,876 Starr Rocque: Mm-hmm. 233 00:12:12,116 --> 00:12:12,176 Yeah. 234 00:12:12,176 --> 00:12:15,566 It can be harmful 'cause it's presented in an other kind of way. 235 00:12:15,566 --> 00:12:25,471 It's presented in a way that, um, men should be ashamed for certain feelings or for like, not conforming to what's seen as machismo. 236 00:12:25,976 --> 00:12:30,506 And even for me, like I'm someone who, I feel like I grew up pretty progressive. 237 00:12:30,506 --> 00:12:33,296 I mean, I, I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood. 238 00:12:33,296 --> 00:12:34,016 It was the hood. 239 00:12:34,016 --> 00:12:39,181 I've been a theater kid, theater high school, and so I was around a lot of queerness and queer people. 240 00:12:39,181 --> 00:12:39,461 Mm-hmm. 241 00:12:39,541 --> 00:12:50,396 So for me it wasn't necessarily such a shock, but now that I'm older and I'm having more conversation, I'm realizing there's still stuff I need to unlearn and that I'm working on unlearning. 242 00:12:50,401 --> 00:12:50,541 Mm-hmm. 243 00:12:50,626 --> 00:12:55,826 And, um, stereotypically it's like queerness wasn't necessarily. 244 00:12:56,351 --> 00:12:57,701 The spectrum that it is today. 245 00:12:57,701 --> 00:12:57,791 Mm-hmm. 246 00:12:58,031 --> 00:13:01,031 Back then it was like you were either gay or straight. 247 00:13:01,091 --> 00:13:01,301 Yep. 248 00:13:01,511 --> 00:13:04,091 But now it's, you know, now we're understanding Yeah. 249 00:13:04,151 --> 00:13:09,761 What the different terms are and so, but I, I think I'm a unique black woman in that sense that I was exposed to 250 00:13:10,211 --> 00:13:14,441 people and seeing their humanity and understanding their humanity. 251 00:13:14,441 --> 00:13:17,981 Now I can say, um, and I grew up in New York on top of that. 252 00:13:17,981 --> 00:13:33,371 there's a lot of stuff that we were, that we're taught about queerness that's rooted in religion, that's rooted in white supremacist conditioning that needs to be unlearned and we need to talk about these things. 253 00:13:33,371 --> 00:13:33,971 Jay Ray: Yes. 254 00:13:34,001 --> 00:13:34,421 Starr Rocque: So. 255 00:13:34,801 --> 00:13:36,716 I, I hope, I don't know if I answered the question. 256 00:13:36,896 --> 00:13:37,496 Um, 257 00:13:38,066 --> 00:13:38,636 Jay Ray: you did, but 258 00:13:38,696 --> 00:13:39,086 Starr Rocque: yeah, 259 00:13:39,716 --> 00:13:40,436 Jay Ray: you did. 260 00:13:40,436 --> 00:13:45,926 And, and added, um, I think a layer of nuance that I think is important to consider. 261 00:13:46,166 --> 00:13:53,246 So I think what's, what's interesting about "Another Man", Stories that are rooted in a time and place. 262 00:13:53,816 --> 00:14:16,016 And I think today we get to have more nuanced conversations, both in formats like this on podcasts, but also in songs like what Sir Daniel talked about earlier with like artists like Doci and being able to kind of like, uh, unlearn some of those things by continuing to have these conversations, acknowledging the fact that "Another Man" is still a bop. 263 00:14:16,856 --> 00:14:23,636 And also being able to be like, okay, but I can also view "Another Man" from the prism in which it was created, right? 264 00:14:23,726 --> 00:14:23,816 Mm-hmm. 265 00:14:24,206 --> 00:14:31,526 Um, and I think that's one of the things that, um, this kind of, this space gives us an opportunity to do, I think this new space. 266 00:14:31,676 --> 00:14:34,106 But no, you definitely answered the question. 267 00:14:34,586 --> 00:14:41,366 I know that going into this, one of the interesting things that I, I definitely wanted to highlight, um. 268 00:14:42,161 --> 00:14:58,451 Is that both of these songs were written by men, sir. And Sir Daniel, I wanna direct this question to you because what this made me think of is the fact that we saw this in hip hop too, where these vicious disses that women was spit would be written by these dudes, right? 269 00:14:58,631 --> 00:15:03,101 So we got these two songs about bisexual men cheat. 270 00:15:03,101 --> 00:15:08,801 You know, these, these women with these, these men who are cheating on them with other men written by men. 271 00:15:10,076 --> 00:15:10,676 Reflect. 272 00:15:10,821 --> 00:15:11,366 I, I don't, I don't know. 273 00:15:11,966 --> 00:15:13,376 What are your, what are your thoughts 274 00:15:13,376 --> 00:15:13,766 Sir Daniel: on this? 275 00:15:14,501 --> 00:15:15,866 I, I don't know. 276 00:15:15,866 --> 00:15:23,246 I guess it, is like, are you, are they living, are they trying to live out their truths vicariously through the, their muses? 277 00:15:23,726 --> 00:15:36,056 You know, it's, it's, it's, it's something to consider and, you know, it's not a stretch of the imagination to think that a songwriter, a specifically a male songwriter would. 278 00:15:36,626 --> 00:15:44,876 Act out or would flesh out, um, themes or stories or experiences that they've had through their music. 279 00:15:44,876 --> 00:15:50,696 So it's not that far of, a far from, of a stretch of an imagination, but I just know. 280 00:15:50,696 --> 00:15:55,526 But like you said, thinking back into the time, the context of time, like it. 281 00:15:55,526 --> 00:15:55,527 it, 282 00:15:56,276 --> 00:16:00,716 It makes sense because you couldn't, you don't, they didn't have much outlets. 283 00:16:01,106 --> 00:16:04,856 There weren't too many people outside of maybe a Sylvester Mm-hmm. 284 00:16:05,156 --> 00:16:07,316 or, I think, and actually think it stopped right there. 285 00:16:07,856 --> 00:16:08,186 Yeah. 286 00:16:08,191 --> 00:16:08,381 And who, 287 00:16:08,418 --> 00:16:08,568 who, 288 00:16:08,741 --> 00:16:09,741 actually, j Jermaine. 289 00:16:09,741 --> 00:16:10,181 Stewart 290 00:16:10,181 --> 00:16:10,341 Jay Ray: and, 291 00:16:10,731 --> 00:16:11,021 yeah. 292 00:16:11,156 --> 00:16:17,726 Sir Daniel: But even Jermaine Stewart, you know, his biggest, his biggest hit, he's referring to, you know, female pronouns. 293 00:16:17,726 --> 00:16:20,276 And it's like, Jermaine, okay. 294 00:16:20,366 --> 00:16:24,686 You know, but it, and so yeah, like, so it doesn't. 295 00:16:25,706 --> 00:16:29,636 Surprise me That these, um, male songwriters would do this. 296 00:16:30,026 --> 00:16:37,136 Um, now speaking of hip hop and like you mentioned, the, um, the rappers, um, and the disses that were written by men. 297 00:16:38,246 --> 00:16:40,136 It, I have to throw in here. 298 00:16:40,616 --> 00:16:53,421 Um, I, there's another song by the, um, by the rapper, by the name of Nikki d who was, if you remember, Nikki d was the first female mc signed to the Def Jam label Mm-hmm. 299 00:16:53,661 --> 00:17:04,301 back in like 88, 89, and when her debut album finally dropped, daddy's Little Girl, she also has a song on her album called "Another Man". 300 00:17:04,346 --> 00:17:04,766 Mm-hmm. 301 00:17:04,851 --> 00:17:13,551 And it samples the Barbara Mason, "Another Man", and there's no, there's no, um, coins around these lyrics. 302 00:17:13,551 --> 00:17:28,841 She is literally saying, I used, she was reminiscing about a man that she used to date, and this one was even more graphic talking about how, how she would find his underwear and his underwear would have, you know, various. 303 00:17:28,841 --> 00:17:29,681 no, si. 304 00:17:30,011 --> 00:17:32,891 Yeah, the underwear has signs of distress. 305 00:17:32,891 --> 00:17:33,851 I'll put it like that. 306 00:17:34,361 --> 00:17:41,771 And how she, um, and, and funny, fun fact, lady of Rage is on this song, it's Really Quick. 307 00:17:42,491 --> 00:17:43,421 Lady of Rage Oh, okay. 308 00:17:43,421 --> 00:17:45,611 I got her part on the song and it's really quick. 309 00:17:45,701 --> 00:17:46,991 It's like she's just talking to her. 310 00:17:46,991 --> 00:17:47,381 She's like. 311 00:17:48,011 --> 00:17:49,481 He was ripping it at Yes. 312 00:17:49,481 --> 00:17:51,401 And she calls him and she calls her out by race. 313 00:17:51,401 --> 00:17:56,441 But anyway, so the song that was very, uh, when did that come out? 314 00:17:56,441 --> 00:17:57,731 91. So 91. 315 00:17:57,731 --> 00:18:00,971 listening to that song, I was really taken aback. 316 00:18:01,001 --> 00:18:02,501 I was like, oh, whoa. 317 00:18:03,011 --> 00:18:07,121 Like, wow, this is something that is really being discussed. 318 00:18:07,571 --> 00:18:11,051 And I think it was the, the language. 319 00:18:11,801 --> 00:18:15,708 The, the tone of it had a tone of disgust to 320 00:18:15,796 --> 00:18:16,086 Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. 321 00:18:16,211 --> 00:18:16,631 Mm-hmm. 322 00:18:16,811 --> 00:18:17,681 and so, 323 00:18:17,771 --> 00:18:23,981 Sir Daniel: but I'm wondering if the disgust was because of the deception. 324 00:18:24,851 --> 00:18:30,461 And there's always, and these always, the songs are always written about the deception. 325 00:18:30,791 --> 00:18:33,761 But I think the greater conversation to have then. 326 00:18:34,931 --> 00:18:35,351 is, 327 00:18:35,351 --> 00:18:42,701 and why aren't we having this greater conversation about why do people feel the need to deceive and to hide? 328 00:18:42,966 --> 00:18:43,316 Jay Ray: Right? 329 00:18:43,803 --> 00:18:44,553 Sir Daniel: And so that's, 330 00:18:44,621 --> 00:18:44,771 Jay Ray: Right. 331 00:18:44,771 --> 00:18:51,281 Sir Daniel: And so that, And so I think these songs could actually create conversations like we're having now about mm-hmm. 332 00:18:51,551 --> 00:18:53,621 why people feel the need to hide. 333 00:18:53,621 --> 00:18:59,921 Why do people feel the need to, to deceive and to hide in relationships that didn't, they didn't necessarily. 334 00:19:01,091 --> 00:19:08,261 Want to be in, or they really could want, you know, there's, there's, um, spectrums to sexuality There's role that Yes. 335 00:19:08,561 --> 00:19:11,831 and so there are people who are legit bisexual, Mm-hmm. 336 00:19:12,311 --> 00:19:12,701 and. 337 00:19:13,541 --> 00:19:19,271 What in, in the moment are having, are in a relationship with the person of the opposite gender. 338 00:19:19,316 --> 00:19:19,736 Mm-hmm. 339 00:19:19,816 --> 00:19:19,817 Mm-hmm. 340 00:19:19,991 --> 00:19:32,531 So, uh, that's how, that's what came to my mind when I heard these songs and, you know, Starr, I just, you know, when you hear things like that and you think about the conversations that amongst black women, 341 00:19:32,996 --> 00:19:33,416 mm-hmm. 342 00:19:33,996 --> 00:19:41,321 is, is it still steeped in fair or is there any curiosity about talking to men and saying, Hey. 343 00:19:42,206 --> 00:19:42,596 Is it 344 00:19:42,656 --> 00:19:43,886 You, it's okay. 345 00:19:43,946 --> 00:19:52,796 You can do this or can do black women hold the key to making black men feel comfortable in, in sexual expressions. 346 00:19:55,436 --> 00:19:56,816 Starr Rocque: That's a, Ooh, that's a really good question. 347 00:19:56,816 --> 00:19:58,406 That's a really deep question too. 348 00:19:58,406 --> 00:20:04,796 Um, I think, I don't know if it's just black women 349 00:20:04,856 --> 00:20:05,996 that told the key. 350 00:20:06,446 --> 00:20:07,436 I think because. 351 00:20:07,826 --> 00:20:11,606 So and so from one of the, the layers of this that I'm thinking about, right? 352 00:20:11,606 --> 00:20:18,531 Like as a black woman, you think about how society conditions you to, um, get a man, keep a man. 353 00:20:18,551 --> 00:20:18,971 Mm-hmm. 354 00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:21,176 If you don't keep that man, you're doing something wrong. 355 00:20:21,716 --> 00:20:21,836 Mm-hmm. 356 00:20:22,076 --> 00:20:24,296 So as a woman, you find out your man is cheating. 357 00:20:24,326 --> 00:20:27,386 Not, not just cheating, but then he's cheating with another man. 358 00:20:27,556 --> 00:20:29,416 You as a woman can't compete with a man. 359 00:20:29,446 --> 00:20:31,576 So that that's kind of a layer Yeah. 360 00:20:31,576 --> 00:20:32,056 To it. 361 00:20:32,206 --> 00:20:36,046 That could add to some shame from a woman's perspective too. 362 00:20:36,346 --> 00:20:40,276 Like maybe you don't wanna talk about it or tell your friends like, yeah, he's cheating with a man. 363 00:20:40,306 --> 00:20:43,186 If you tell your friends you're cheating with a woman, they're like, all let's go beat. 364 00:20:43,246 --> 00:20:43,876 Beat that bitch. 365 00:20:44,176 --> 00:20:44,446 Whatever. 366 00:20:44,446 --> 00:20:44,536 Right? 367 00:20:46,471 --> 00:20:46,761 Jay Ray: Then 368 00:20:46,761 --> 00:20:47,041 Starr Rocque: when, 369 00:20:48,198 --> 00:20:48,983 Sir Daniel: Where she at? 370 00:20:49,951 --> 00:20:51,646 Starr Rocque: what do you do better? 371 00:20:51,706 --> 00:20:53,266 Like, which is crazy and. 372 00:20:53,496 --> 00:20:54,996 It's crazy, but a lot of people feel that way. 373 00:20:55,001 --> 00:20:55,071 Right? 374 00:20:55,076 --> 00:20:55,206 Right. 375 00:20:55,206 --> 00:20:57,426 Like, oh, if he's cheating, what do I need to do that? 376 00:20:57,486 --> 00:21:01,146 That's kind of like steeped in that, like that shame. 377 00:21:01,416 --> 00:21:01,506 Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. 378 00:21:02,016 --> 00:21:08,586 Starr Rocque: Um, I think, um, it starts with, I think there's value in safe spaces. 379 00:21:08,616 --> 00:21:16,356 Uh, like for, for men to have their safe spaces and women to have their safe spaces and the, the eighties and the they, them to have their safe spaces. 380 00:21:16,356 --> 00:21:16,446 Yes. 381 00:21:16,446 --> 00:21:20,436 But at some point we have to be able to come together and, and, and discuss this. 382 00:21:20,436 --> 00:21:20,976 I think. 383 00:21:23,276 --> 00:21:25,046 Black women that hold the key. 384 00:21:25,046 --> 00:21:28,886 But I think if this is one of those group projects Yeah. 385 00:21:28,886 --> 00:21:36,836 That we can come together on and sort of, um, really, uh, push this conversation forward. 386 00:21:36,836 --> 00:21:40,436 Black women do tend to be the drivers of cultural discussion. 387 00:21:40,436 --> 00:21:40,826 Mm-hmm. 388 00:21:40,832 --> 00:21:47,006 So may maybe, but I know ultimately I feel like this is, this has gotta be a group project. 389 00:21:47,516 --> 00:21:57,176 Jay Ray: Ooh, So I think one of the things that hindsight gives us the ability to do, and I think I apply this to. 390 00:21:58,331 --> 00:21:59,321 "Another Man". 391 00:21:59,371 --> 00:22:14,431 Is recognizing, once again, going back to that thing of like, there are a, a, a, a reflection of that time and we have the opportunity with what we know now to kind of reframe the conversation. 392 00:22:14,431 --> 00:22:19,411 So it doesn't mean we have to throw away "Another Man", it's just contextualize them. 393 00:22:19,471 --> 00:22:21,991 And I love that Mel who. 394 00:22:22,841 --> 00:22:29,326 Was the head of West End Records was like, Hey, many years later, I got him to do like a remix of that song. 395 00:22:29,326 --> 00:22:29,646 Mm-hmm. 396 00:22:29,726 --> 00:22:36,821 To kind of pull out some of the things that were like, eh, you know, I know we did that in 84, but we really shouldn't have done that. 397 00:22:36,821 --> 00:22:37,646 So let's kind of like mm-hmm. 398 00:22:37,871 --> 00:22:40,211 Pull that stuff back and I think. 399 00:22:41,926 --> 00:22:43,036 We grow. 400 00:22:43,546 --> 00:22:47,596 If people, if we're around long enough, we get the opportunity to grow and evolve. 401 00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:51,136 And it's like, okay, yeah, we can change that. 402 00:22:51,166 --> 00:22:57,016 We see comedians do it and I think it also can happen in songs, um, with what we learn. 403 00:22:57,016 --> 00:23:02,236 So, um, I think they're necessary, but I also think we give people the chance to change. 404 00:23:03,736 --> 00:23:04,096 Starr Rocque: Agreed. 405 00:23:04,966 --> 00:23:05,296 Yeah. 406 00:23:05,746 --> 00:23:08,116 Jay Ray: Um, why? 407 00:23:08,821 --> 00:23:13,771 And I think we may have hit on this, but I think this is kind of a, a good question or something for us to ponder. 408 00:23:14,281 --> 00:23:23,311 Why are songs about diverse romantic experiences important for us to hear? 409 00:23:24,211 --> 00:23:25,291 What are you, what are y'all feeling? 410 00:23:26,963 --> 00:23:27,301 Sir Daniel: You can. 411 00:23:27,301 --> 00:23:27,841 go Starr that. 412 00:23:29,191 --> 00:23:29,671 Starr Rocque: Okay. 413 00:23:30,271 --> 00:23:39,361 Diversity always gives you a different perspective, and that's what's important because that helps empathy building, which we clearly are in a world that needs a lot more of. 414 00:23:39,721 --> 00:23:41,521 Um, so that, that's my main thing. 415 00:23:41,581 --> 00:23:45,901 Um, and sometimes you just get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again. 416 00:23:45,901 --> 00:23:47,731 Sometimes you do want a little bit of. 417 00:23:49,126 --> 00:23:50,656 Spice or something different. 418 00:23:53,386 --> 00:23:54,856 Sir Daniel: I agree totally. 419 00:23:54,856 --> 00:24:02,926 Um, yeah, it's, um, there's so many stories to be told right Mm-hmm. 420 00:24:03,166 --> 00:24:03,646 there. 421 00:24:04,396 --> 00:24:07,691 We are not a monolithic people, Mm-hmm. 422 00:24:08,391 --> 00:24:19,726 you know, we all have different lived experiences and the thing about music is that music and especially popular music, taps into. 423 00:24:20,176 --> 00:24:22,036 All different facets of humanity. 424 00:24:22,036 --> 00:24:23,926 So why not 425 00:24:24,316 --> 00:24:24,676 Jay Ray: Yeah. 426 00:24:24,856 --> 00:24:28,306 Sir Daniel: tap into different, um, expressions of love? 427 00:24:28,306 --> 00:24:32,986 Because most, most songs are about love, are about relationships. 428 00:24:32,986 --> 00:24:33,136 Yes. 429 00:24:33,286 --> 00:24:33,376 Mm-hmm. 430 00:24:33,736 --> 00:24:36,346 And so are we just gonna completely ignore. 431 00:24:37,463 --> 00:24:43,861 You You know, a a, a whole community, a whole section of the human race Mm-hmm. 432 00:24:44,101 --> 00:24:47,851 that also experiences love, heartbreak, Yes. 433 00:24:48,031 --> 00:24:52,831 um, relationships, so on and so forth, joy, pain, all of those things. 434 00:24:53,311 --> 00:24:57,031 So we gotta have 'em if we don't have 'em. 435 00:24:57,091 --> 00:25:00,031 The, if we didn't have these types of songs. 436 00:25:01,981 --> 00:25:03,421 It just wouldn't be as exciting. 437 00:25:03,601 --> 00:25:05,281 Music would not be as exciting. 438 00:25:05,641 --> 00:25:09,061 Uh, I could say as a DJ it wouldn't be as exciting, Mm-hmm. 439 00:25:09,301 --> 00:25:13,531 um, to, to have to play music 'cause everything will be about the same thing. 440 00:25:13,621 --> 00:25:18,691 And then again, you are ignoring a whole, uh, consumer base. 441 00:25:19,081 --> 00:25:19,231 mm-hmm. 442 00:25:19,561 --> 00:25:21,541 And, and the lives that they're leading. 443 00:25:21,788 --> 00:25:24,871 So, um, yeah, it's important to have these. 444 00:25:24,871 --> 00:25:27,931 And there's, and there's been other songs. 445 00:25:27,931 --> 00:25:32,373 There's been, you know, uh, Katy Perry, I Kissed the girl and, Mm-hmm. 446 00:25:32,376 --> 00:25:35,731 and, um, to Michelle and o Cellos, Mm-hmm. 447 00:25:35,737 --> 00:25:37,081 if that was your man, mm-hmm. 448 00:25:37,081 --> 00:25:37,921 he wasn't last 449 00:25:37,921 --> 00:25:38,131 Jay Ray: night. 450 00:25:38,136 --> 00:25:38,316 Mm-hmm. 451 00:25:38,816 --> 00:25:39,036 So 452 00:25:39,143 --> 00:25:46,136 Sir Daniel: different songs many different songs and, and, and we all know them and they're hits and they're, we enjoy them, so we gotta have it. 453 00:25:46,556 --> 00:25:46,886 Jay Ray: Yeah. 454 00:25:46,976 --> 00:25:48,326 No, I completely agree. 455 00:25:48,326 --> 00:26:02,276 And I think, um, so Butch Ingram, um, when reflecting on the song, uh, Butch wrote the song and produced the song, um, said that, um, people are having these experiences every day. 456 00:26:03,146 --> 00:26:03,296 Mm-hmm. 457 00:26:03,626 --> 00:26:06,686 And at the time when "Another Man" came out, people just weren't putting it in the song. 458 00:26:06,746 --> 00:26:07,646 You know what I mean? 459 00:26:08,156 --> 00:26:09,566 Um, and so. 460 00:26:10,861 --> 00:26:24,751 The, the beauty about artists being able to reflect, lived experience like in music is just like an important part of learning for I think a lot of folks. 461 00:26:25,171 --> 00:26:27,781 Um, and so, yeah, no, I absolutely agree. 462 00:26:27,841 --> 00:26:31,321 We have to have these diverse experiences show up in our music. 463 00:26:31,321 --> 00:26:39,151 It just makes, it makes it all more listen, it gives us a more, expands our worldview and makes our lives a little bit more, a little bit more interesting, a little bit more spicy. 464 00:26:40,336 --> 00:26:41,896 That's why the arts is under attack. 465 00:26:42,436 --> 00:26:45,056 That is, you better talk about that Starr. 466 00:26:45,076 --> 00:26:46,456 You are absolutely right. 467 00:26:46,456 --> 00:26:51,346 Like they don't want us to have these experiences because guess what? 468 00:26:51,586 --> 00:27:00,286 People start to open up and they start to learn and they start to experience and me like, oh it, but it doesn't have be this because I heard it in this song. 469 00:27:00,286 --> 00:27:00,526 Right? 470 00:27:00,526 --> 00:27:01,966 Or I got inspired by this song. 471 00:27:01,991 --> 00:27:02,271 Mm-hmm. 472 00:27:02,351 --> 00:27:03,311 They don't want that to happen. 473 00:27:04,601 --> 00:27:05,561 It's right there. 474 00:27:05,561 --> 00:27:06,851 We got lessons in all of this. 475 00:27:06,851 --> 00:27:07,736 Right under our noses. 476 00:27:07,991 --> 00:27:09,191 Right under our noses. 477 00:27:09,281 --> 00:27:13,301 Our freedom is our, we have all, we have given ourselves the blueprints to our freedom. 478 00:27:13,301 --> 00:27:15,191 Time and time and time again. 479 00:27:15,371 --> 00:27:16,271 Starr Rocque: History again. 480 00:27:16,331 --> 00:27:18,131 This is why history is under attack. 481 00:27:19,851 --> 00:27:20,461 Jay Ray: There It's Starr. 482 00:27:20,651 --> 00:27:22,751 Where can folks connect with you? 483 00:27:22,751 --> 00:27:25,681 Let our folks know when, when they want connect with Starr Rocque. 484 00:27:25,901 --> 00:27:27,041 Where can they connect with you? 485 00:27:28,121 --> 00:27:29,216 Starr Rocque: You can find me at. 486 00:27:29,366 --> 00:27:33,381 Starr, S-T-A-R-R-R-O-C-Q-U-E. 487 00:27:35,756 --> 00:27:41,636 I was gonna say, I'm like, lemme think about these platforms because I'm like, I'm less, I'm trying to do less and less on social media, but definitely like Blue Sky. 488 00:27:41,636 --> 00:27:41,726 Mm-hmm. 489 00:27:42,266 --> 00:27:44,276 Um, threads for sure. 490 00:27:44,726 --> 00:27:45,626 Instagram. 491 00:27:45,626 --> 00:27:46,856 I'm, I'm, I'm around. 492 00:27:46,856 --> 00:27:47,126 Jay Ray: Yeah. 493 00:27:47,366 --> 00:27:48,506 Cool beans. 494 00:27:48,506 --> 00:27:57,536 Listen, we appreciate it so much, and for all of y'all tuning in, if you can see our faces, if you can hear our voices, make sure that you subscribe wherever you are, share the show with your friend. 495 00:27:57,821 --> 00:27:58,901 Uh, let them know. 496 00:27:58,901 --> 00:28:01,871 'cause if you enjoy Queue Points, chances are they will enjoy Queue Points as well. 497 00:28:02,081 --> 00:28:04,311 Make sure that you visit our website at queuepoints.com. 498 00:28:04,331 --> 00:28:06,191 You can watch our whole archive of shows. 499 00:28:06,191 --> 00:28:08,471 There are a lot of shows that you can watch over there. 500 00:28:08,471 --> 00:28:08,561 Mm-hmm. 501 00:28:09,281 --> 00:28:17,141 And, um, you can also visit our magazine, our digital publication, Queue Points Mag, where we got some additional content, uh, related to the show. 502 00:28:17,141 --> 00:28:21,491 And ne last but not least, shop our store, store dot Queue Points.com. 503 00:28:21,491 --> 00:28:23,051 You could get yourself some fresh merch. 504 00:28:23,261 --> 00:28:25,811 It helps to keep the lights on here in Queue Points land. 505 00:28:25,961 --> 00:28:27,521 We appreciate y'all, we love y'all. 506 00:28:28,706 --> 00:28:30,206 Sir Daniel: All right, well that's gonna do it for us. 507 00:28:30,206 --> 00:28:32,006 What do I always say in this life? 508 00:28:32,036 --> 00:28:32,816 You have a choice. 509 00:28:32,816 --> 00:28:35,726 You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play. 510 00:28:36,026 --> 00:28:37,316 I'm DJ Sir Daniel, 511 00:28:37,646 --> 00:28:39,206 Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray. 512 00:28:39,656 --> 00:28:40,336 That's Starr Rocque. 513 00:28:40,336 --> 00:28:40,766 That's 514 00:28:40,766 --> 00:28:41,596 Sir Daniel: Starr Rocque. 515 00:28:41,726 --> 00:28:45,836 And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. 516 00:28:46,106 --> 00:28:47,726 We'll see you on the next go round. 517 00:28:47,996 --> 00:28:48,716 Peace. 518 00:28:48,776 --> 00:28:49,286 Jay Ray: Peace y'all.