Alex: Just a heads-up that this episode contains details of racist abuse, and mentions of suicide. Take care while you’re listening.

Andy: I wanted to protect those who couldn't protect themselves. I always had a big thing about what was right and what was wrong. Growing up and seeing others getting bullied at school, I would always be the person that would step forward.

Alex: That’s Andy George. He’s a dad of three. He’s also served in the Northern Irish police for more than two decades – working in a notoriously complicated environment.

Andy: And I'm also president of the National Black Police Association which represents every officer staff member from a black or Asian background, other minority ethnic backgrounds, across the United Kingdom.

Alex: Andy is dedicated to speaking out when he sees injustice. But – he wasn’t always able to.

Andy: Grew up in a largely white environment. We were one of about three families from an ethnic background in the entire town.

Alex: Andy’s dad is from Malaysia. For Andy, growing up as a mixed race person in County Armagh in the 1980s … wasn’t easy.

Andy: That's the kind of, I suppose, the inner struggle of people from dual heritage and mixed race. Because I see myself as Northern Irish, but others judge me off how I look.

Alex: Andy has experienced a lot of racial abuse throughout his life – but there’s one incident that left a lasting impact.

Andy: I think the first time I ever experienced racism, I was only six years old.

Alex: Andy’s older cousin took him to the circus – for the first time. Six-year-old Andy was confident, outgoing.

Andy: I was excited! I was thrilled to be there, you know, and thrilled to get going.

Alex: When the circus clowns asked for kids to volunteer, Andy shot his hand up. He was invited on stage with two other kids. The clowns asked the children their names in turn. Meanwhile the audience inside the big top - a couple of hundred people - clapped and cheered.

Andy: Then it come to me and there was this kind of pregnant pause. The clown leaned down, asked what my name was, and I obviously replied Andy. And the next thing he kind of stood up like, again another bit of a pause, a couple of seconds. And all of a sudden he announced to everybody that this is sausage, “everybody this is sausage”.

Alex: Little Andy was confused. Why did the clown call him that? The audience erupted into laughter – mean, cold laughter from people who should have known better. Andy didn’t get the so-called “joke”.

Time seemed to slow down.

Andy: And then it dawned on me that I was being called sausage because sausages are brown and so am I. I think that was probably the first time that I ever noticed that I was different to everybody else.

Alex: That awful moment – on stage at the circus – is the first time Andy was made to feel different.

Andy: I felt you know, like, tiny, so I did. I felt like the whole big top was closing in on me. The heart beating like mad, almost wanting to run off. That was my immediate feeling, I want to get out of here. I want to leave.

Alex: The kids were supposed to do forward rolls. Andy was overwhelmed with a feeling of – let’s just get this over with and not draw attention to myself.

Andy: I had to finish the performance, do what I had to do, and then afterwards get in. And it was almost, fight back the tears and not let on that it was annoying me.

Andy: I think if I’m honest that probably had a real profound impact on me, you know, I had issues around confidence after that, I had issues around public speaking. I probably held back quite a bit as well, because it didn't want to stand out, I didn’t want to be in the limelight again like that.

Alex: That impulse – to not stand out … it stayed with Andy.

Andy: Even longer term, I think that’s the effect it had afterwards. I was always trying to blend in.. and gave up probably part of myself just to do that.

Alex: It’s important to remember: this was Northern Ireland in the mid 1980s. A time of sectarian violence and terrorist attacks. Over 3,500 people were killed in the conflict. There was a deep divide in society.

Andy: I don't think anybody was really, you know, immune from it, or anybody wasn't fully touched by the violence that was going on then.

Alex: And Andy says: there’s a clear link between sectarianism and racism. For him, the discrimination continued throughout school.

Andy: All of the things that I got growing up is: where are you from? Then, where are you really from? And I’m like: I’m really from Northern Ireland.

What racism and racist abuse is telling you a lot of the time is that you have no place in this society at all. You should go home, you don’t belong here, all of these things that people like me have been told numerous times throughout my life.

Alex: Like the time at the circus, this kind of treatment made Andy want to blend into the background.

Andy: I used to have people waiting outside at school whenever I was younger, at my primary school, waiting to beat me up, so I did, just because of the colour of my skin. I had... going into any town, it was literally people would laugh and sneer and point, because as I said there was nobody who looked like me in the entire town.

Alex: As he moved through his school years, though, Andy gained confidence. He played rugby and football. And gradually - he started to fight back. Defend himself from the bullies.

Andy: Even in school I remember one particular incident in school where I got beaten up by three guys, they started attacking me. Thankfully I was a bit bigger than everybody else at that stage, I could handle myself reasonably well, I ended up fending them off and stuff.

Alex: But Andy was the one who was sent to the principal’s office – and banned from football practice. Luckily, the vice principal saw what had really happened. He came to Andy’s defence – even shouting at the principal!

Andy: And he come back out afterwards and said get your football kit on, and get out there now, you're playing. I was like, right, ok. It was the best match I’d ever played in my life.

Alex: Andy would also intervene when he saw other kids getting bullied at school. He’d make the bullies apologise.

Andy: I always had a big thing about what was right and what was wrong. Growing up and seeing others getting bullied at school, I would always be the person that would step forward.

Alex: Experiences like these were part of what motivated Andy to become a police officer.

Andy: It allowed me to be in a position to kind of help others. And you know most police officers join because they want to kind of protect the vulnerable and reach out and help others.

Alex: Andy is modest about his impressive rise through the ranks. He joined the force in 1999. And went on to spend 10 years in the armed response unit – a notoriously tough job dealing with knife and gun crime across Northern Ireland.

He then made the fast track from constable to Detective Inspector.

Andy has been highly commended twice and has won awards. All this despite regularly facing racist abuse and racial comments.

Andy: What I found throughout my life is that people judge me off the way I look, what they see initially is the difference. And once they get to know me, and once you're exposed to me, the majority of people actually start to see similarities.

Alex: Tragically, when Andy was 31, his youngest sister took her own life because of the racism she had experienced.

Andy: Why should people really feel like taking their own life just because of who they are and because of the content of melanin in their skin?

It’s ridiculous that people get to the point where they don’t feel they belong. That they have such deep mental health issues because of racism.

Alex: This was one of the reasons why Andy first joined the National Black Police Association, back in 2016. Then in October 2020, he was elected president of the organisation, which works to protect the rights of ethnic minority officers across the UK.

Andy: I could use my position to help others. There was no point in my sister having taken her own life and some of the experiences I’ve had, if I don't try to make things better for the next generation and for my kids, for the next generation and for others.

Alex: These days, Andy is anything but a wallflower. Not only did he stand out from the crowd – he now stands up for people every day.