1 00:00:00,570 --> 00:00:01,080 Hi there. 2 00:00:01,260 --> 00:00:06,230 This is gift biz on rap episode 110 Fundamentally artists I 3 00:00:06,230 --> 00:00:08,600 think are a little more comfortable with ambiguity, 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,300 and that does give you an advantage in today's new world. 5 00:00:11,660 --> 00:00:15,230 Hi, this is John Lee Dumas of entrepreneur on fire, 6 00:00:15,230 --> 00:00:19,910 and you're listening to unwrap and now it's time to light 7 00:00:20,300 --> 00:00:22,070 it up. 8 00:00:22,070 --> 00:00:23,750 Welcome Nick gift biz, 9 00:00:23,990 --> 00:00:27,800 unwrapped your source for industry specific insights and advice to develop 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,640 and grow your business. 11 00:00:29,060 --> 00:00:32,030 And now here's your host Sue Mona height. 12 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:33,500 Hi there. 13 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,340 It's Sue and welcome back to the gift biz unwrap podcast, 14 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,250 whether you own a brick and mortar shop sell online or 15 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:41,690 are just getting started, 16 00:00:41,780 --> 00:00:45,350 you'll discover new insight to gain traction and to grow your 17 00:00:45,350 --> 00:00:46,670 business today. 18 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,620 I have the pleasure of introducing you to Jonathan David Lewis. 19 00:00:51,620 --> 00:00:55,880 Johnathan is the author of a brand vs wild building resilient 20 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,590 brands for harsh business environments. 21 00:00:57,830 --> 00:01:01,310 He is an engaging and authoritative speaker on shaping a brand 22 00:01:01,310 --> 00:01:06,980 that can survive and thrive in today's often serve as partner 23 00:01:06,980 --> 00:01:10,430 and strategy director at McKee Wallwork and company. 24 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:14,660 Jonathan led this park to be recognized by industry purveyor, 25 00:01:14,810 --> 00:01:18,740 advertise Nate as a national leader in branding and marketing. 26 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,730 They are also named the Southwest small agency of the year 27 00:01:23,030 --> 00:01:26,630 and received a national B to B campaign of the year 28 00:01:26,690 --> 00:01:28,940 and the national best places to work. 29 00:01:29,990 --> 00:01:31,700 They have a lot going on. 30 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:34,580 I am so excited to share with you a topic that 31 00:01:34,580 --> 00:01:35,720 I think is really, 32 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,970 really going to be important for all of us. 33 00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:39,680 So we're going to get right into it. 34 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:40,460 And Jonathan, 35 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:41,510 welcome to the show. 36 00:01:41,930 --> 00:01:42,470 Thanks Sue. 37 00:01:42,470 --> 00:01:43,100 Happy to be here. 38 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,500 I start off in a little bit of a different way 39 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:49,160 because most of our listeners are artisans of one sort or 40 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,050 another. So if you would describe yourself as a motivational candle, 41 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,080 what would resonate with you in terms of a candle with 42 00:01:57,110 --> 00:01:58,100 a color and a quote, 43 00:01:58,790 --> 00:02:00,080 A color and a quote? 44 00:02:00,260 --> 00:02:01,790 That's a very interesting question. 45 00:02:01,790 --> 00:02:03,200 Let's see color. 46 00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:06,200 I would have to say the color of the candle would 47 00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:09,410 be blue and that actually goes back a few years. 48 00:02:09,650 --> 00:02:10,400 A number of years ago. 49 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,470 I didn't think it mattered much how I dressed. 50 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:15,080 I met some people that really taught me a lot about 51 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,290 style and a lot about how to present myself and really 52 00:02:18,290 --> 00:02:21,680 taught me that how you dress is even more than about 53 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,120 you. It's about respecting others. 54 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,090 And during that time I created a color palette for myself 55 00:02:26,090 --> 00:02:27,200 and blue was the main color. 56 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:28,970 So I think my candle would be blue. 57 00:02:29,210 --> 00:02:32,180 And I think the quote would say give. 58 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,330 And the reason I say that is the people in my 59 00:02:35,330 --> 00:02:38,000 life has meant a lot and has influenced me a lot 60 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,680 is our creative director here at McKee. 61 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,090 Wallwork his name's Dave Ortega, 62 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:42,560 a fascinating person, 63 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:43,190 very creative. 64 00:02:43,370 --> 00:02:44,780 And he has this really cool thing. 65 00:02:44,780 --> 00:02:45,740 He does every year. 66 00:02:45,770 --> 00:02:47,270 He picks a word for his year. 67 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,970 It kind of sums up what he wants to achieve that 68 00:02:49,970 --> 00:02:52,100 year. And so he's done this of course for many years 69 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:53,210 and it inspired me. 70 00:02:53,210 --> 00:02:53,840 So this year, 71 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,650 my word is give and it's really just something I've learned 72 00:02:57,650 --> 00:03:00,100 in life that we're all to get something. 73 00:03:00,250 --> 00:03:01,360 But at the end of the day, 74 00:03:01,450 --> 00:03:05,110 it's not so much about getting as much as how much 75 00:03:05,110 --> 00:03:06,700 you can give in order to get. 76 00:03:06,820 --> 00:03:08,830 And I think if you focus on the getting, 77 00:03:08,830 --> 00:03:09,640 you get some, 78 00:03:09,700 --> 00:03:11,200 but you don't get as much as you can, 79 00:03:11,290 --> 00:03:12,340 if you focus on the giving. 80 00:03:12,340 --> 00:03:14,470 So my color would be blue and my quote would be 81 00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:15,570 give Perfect. 82 00:03:15,570 --> 00:03:19,200 And I think this whole concept of giving really resonates with 83 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,870 the audience because as artisans, 84 00:03:21,870 --> 00:03:23,190 that's a lot of what we're doing. 85 00:03:23,190 --> 00:03:25,800 We're creating things that then we are giving. 86 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:26,880 So perfect. 87 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:27,690 We're right in line. 88 00:03:27,690 --> 00:03:28,770 We're in sync here today, 89 00:03:28,770 --> 00:03:31,980 Jonathan, and I'm guessing you're in a blue suit over there. 90 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:33,870 Maybe I Am in a blue suit. 91 00:03:33,870 --> 00:03:35,010 Blue is my main color. 92 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:35,700 All Right, 93 00:03:35,700 --> 00:03:36,390 there you go. 94 00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:36,810 All right. 95 00:03:36,870 --> 00:03:40,680 I am so intrigued by the title of your book and 96 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,200 specifically the word wild. 97 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:46,890 Give me a feel for how you identify with that word 98 00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:48,330 and what that all means. 99 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:51,120 What brand vs wild is all about. 100 00:03:51,630 --> 00:03:53,910 Wild sums up this environment. 101 00:03:53,910 --> 00:03:54,960 We all find ourselves in. 102 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,700 When you look around all of us, 103 00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:57,930 when you look at politics, 104 00:03:57,930 --> 00:03:58,980 you look at technology, 105 00:03:58,980 --> 00:03:59,970 you look at business, 106 00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:02,910 the economy and everything is just out of control. 107 00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:04,800 It feels like there's so much uncertainty. 108 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,030 It's only growing. 109 00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:07,560 We don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. 110 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,960 The headlines are just insane day after day. 111 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:13,530 And then you add in the new technologies of artificial intelligence 112 00:04:13,530 --> 00:04:14,490 and automation, 113 00:04:14,610 --> 00:04:16,830 all of this disruption for me, 114 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:19,200 for most of us and certainly for my clients, 115 00:04:19,290 --> 00:04:22,200 the environment out there feels wild and it's overwhelming. 116 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,260 No one person can keep up with it or completely understand 117 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:26,040 what's going on. 118 00:04:26,220 --> 00:04:29,430 So brand vs wild is really all about how do you 119 00:04:29,490 --> 00:04:32,580 manage, build a business and a brand in the midst of 120 00:04:32,580 --> 00:04:36,000 this incredible situation we find ourselves in that I've called the 121 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:36,810 wild. Yeah, 122 00:04:36,810 --> 00:04:38,520 because I think just once you feel like, 123 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,990 okay, I've got it all together, 124 00:04:40,020 --> 00:04:41,490 things are going well, 125 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:42,990 then something happens. 126 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:43,500 Like you say, 127 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:45,000 it's totally unpredictable. 128 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,290 What's going to be around the corner. 129 00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:47,850 And that makes us all uncomfortable. 130 00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:50,340 That is our reality. 131 00:04:50,370 --> 00:04:54,210 So you're talking about helping businesses learn. 132 00:04:54,270 --> 00:04:55,500 What do you do about that? 133 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:56,610 This is reality. 134 00:04:56,610 --> 00:04:59,490 This is our environment today and moving into the future. 135 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,980 How do you work within that reality Completely. 136 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:02,430 And, and you know, 137 00:05:02,430 --> 00:05:02,820 it's funny, 138 00:05:02,820 --> 00:05:05,520 you see these memes all the time of what technology we 139 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,650 were all using five years ago or 10 years ago. 140 00:05:07,770 --> 00:05:11,270 And it's incredible how much the world has changed even in, 141 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:12,600 in a short amount of time. 142 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,290 And it's only changing quicker and we're seeing it now affecting 143 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,070 other areas in other fields in the world around us politics, 144 00:05:20,070 --> 00:05:20,730 the Brexit, 145 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:21,510 et cetera. 146 00:05:21,540 --> 00:05:23,850 So when you look at the pace of change, 147 00:05:23,910 --> 00:05:27,450 you have to really change how you look at business for 148 00:05:27,450 --> 00:05:30,390 new principals are required to succeed at business. 149 00:05:30,450 --> 00:05:33,480 And something that I think is really important for all business 150 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,990 leaders, all business people of any kind it's to understand that 151 00:05:37,050 --> 00:05:40,950 the new principles for success are not the same as the 152 00:05:40,950 --> 00:05:44,130 old principles of success that many of us have followed for 153 00:05:44,130 --> 00:05:47,190 well over a hundred years and Probably had our education and 154 00:05:47,190 --> 00:05:48,320 to exactly. 155 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,600 And that's one of the challenges with education today is that 156 00:05:51,660 --> 00:05:52,980 once you're in there being taught, 157 00:05:52,980 --> 00:05:54,270 whatever you're being taught often, 158 00:05:54,270 --> 00:05:55,320 it's a few years old. 159 00:05:55,410 --> 00:05:57,180 And with the new pace of change, 160 00:05:57,230 --> 00:05:58,100 once you graduate, 161 00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:01,340 even that current knowledge is going to be outmoded very soon, 162 00:06:01,690 --> 00:06:05,230 Right? And now you've worked with brand somewhat similar to who 163 00:06:05,230 --> 00:06:06,160 our audience is, 164 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,360 but on a big scale, 165 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:08,860 like Lego and Disney, 166 00:06:08,860 --> 00:06:09,580 et cetera, 167 00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:10,360 what do you do? 168 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:11,380 How do you coach them? 169 00:06:11,380 --> 00:06:13,510 And what advice do you have for us? 170 00:06:13,510 --> 00:06:15,070 What are the new business rules? 171 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,710 I think the first place that we all should start is 172 00:06:17,710 --> 00:06:22,540 to understand that there's actually a very predictable reaction to disruption 173 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,940 that we all have from a psychological standpoint. 174 00:06:24,940 --> 00:06:27,070 And one of the interesting things we found in the book 175 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:29,890 was that there's very little difference between a group of people 176 00:06:29,890 --> 00:06:32,740 who crash land on top of a mountain psychologically, 177 00:06:32,890 --> 00:06:35,050 and a group of people who are dealing with some sort 178 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:36,490 of disruption in a boardroom. 179 00:06:36,670 --> 00:06:39,430 You're going to go through the same process in the same 180 00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:42,310 order. And you can get out of that situation in a 181 00:06:42,310 --> 00:06:43,690 very similar way as well. 182 00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:46,330 So what we discovered is that there are certain things that 183 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,910 tend to dislodge companies or make us feel lost. 184 00:06:48,970 --> 00:06:50,410 These are the things that disrupt us. 185 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:51,310 So the economy, 186 00:06:51,340 --> 00:06:52,240 when the economy is down, 187 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,010 we all suffer a competition. 188 00:06:54,010 --> 00:06:56,620 When a competition rises or a competitor gets aggressive, 189 00:06:56,620 --> 00:06:58,990 we all suffer or just disruption in general, 190 00:06:59,020 --> 00:07:01,120 things are disrupting faster and faster. 191 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,680 So those things dislodge us, 192 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:05,290 but there are internal things that we all deal with, 193 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,810 whether we're working with a partner or a team, 194 00:07:07,810 --> 00:07:08,980 or even in ourselves, 195 00:07:09,010 --> 00:07:11,020 and these are the things we have control over. 196 00:07:11,050 --> 00:07:13,810 And we know now based on the research that led to 197 00:07:13,810 --> 00:07:16,420 the book that we all follow a very predictable path. 198 00:07:16,420 --> 00:07:18,280 First, what we're dealing with disruption, 199 00:07:18,370 --> 00:07:19,750 we become afraid. 200 00:07:19,810 --> 00:07:21,430 And often that fear is paralyzing. 201 00:07:21,610 --> 00:07:24,400 Then we start to drift as a person and as a 202 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,040 company and we lose our focus about what we were all 203 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,090 about in the first place. 204 00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:29,710 Then we start acting wildly. 205 00:07:29,710 --> 00:07:33,010 We look for silver bullet solutions or easy answers. 206 00:07:33,010 --> 00:07:33,700 And then finally, 207 00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:34,480 and unfortunately, 208 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:35,530 many companies, 209 00:07:35,530 --> 00:07:38,200 many people at the end of the day can turn Savage 210 00:07:38,230 --> 00:07:41,710 and there can be politics or immoral practices, 211 00:07:41,710 --> 00:07:42,310 et cetera, 212 00:07:42,370 --> 00:07:45,310 that can arise whenever we are dealing with disruption. 213 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,650 So let me ask you a question, 214 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,660 hearing you talk through how we, 215 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,600 as people go through this being afraid, 216 00:07:52,630 --> 00:07:53,740 drifting, et cetera. 217 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,720 What about the person who stands his ground? 218 00:07:55,810 --> 00:07:58,510 I'm thinking of something where there's a product. 219 00:07:58,570 --> 00:08:00,490 The only thing that comes to mind for me right now 220 00:08:00,490 --> 00:08:02,050 is an old rotary telephone. 221 00:08:02,230 --> 00:08:05,620 What if the maker of old rotary telephone at and T 222 00:08:05,620 --> 00:08:07,720 whoever you'd want to say stood their ground? 223 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:07,930 I mean, 224 00:08:07,930 --> 00:08:08,860 they were just going to say, 225 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:10,090 this is my product. 226 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,950 The world was clearly changing. 227 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,520 Where does that fall are people sometimes just adamant like they're 228 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,130 blinded. They don't even see that things are changing. 229 00:08:18,670 --> 00:08:22,300 Exactly. One of the most fascinating case studies is actually Kodak 230 00:08:22,450 --> 00:08:25,720 because Kodak who was really this enormous company, 231 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,580 they employ hundreds of thousands of people. 232 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,830 And we're one of the biggest brands in the world. 233 00:08:29,950 --> 00:08:31,960 They actually invented their own disruption. 234 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,640 They invented digital photography. 235 00:08:33,790 --> 00:08:35,800 They knew that the disruption was coming. 236 00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:38,590 They went and filtered this research to look at when the 237 00:08:38,620 --> 00:08:41,830 digital photography would start to change their industry and takeover. 238 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:44,650 So they had all the knowledge they needed in the world. 239 00:08:44,650 --> 00:08:46,780 They even had the technology itself yet. 240 00:08:46,780 --> 00:08:49,480 They still were not able to adapt, 241 00:08:49,540 --> 00:08:52,570 to innovate and to change the underpinnings of their company, 242 00:08:52,570 --> 00:08:53,800 to deal with this new world. 243 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,750 They were paralyzed by the fear of the disruption itself of 244 00:08:57,750 --> 00:09:01,380 all this digital photography kind of cannibalizing the film industry that 245 00:09:01,380 --> 00:09:02,700 they were on top of the heap. 246 00:09:02,790 --> 00:09:06,000 So I think one of the main emotions that we deal 247 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,730 with when we're disrupted or we're overwhelmed by this wild is 248 00:09:08,730 --> 00:09:10,020 fear and fear. 249 00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:10,890 As we all know, 250 00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:12,990 it causes the fight flight or freeze response. 251 00:09:12,990 --> 00:09:13,710 And often, 252 00:09:13,710 --> 00:09:15,120 most of us freeze, 253 00:09:15,150 --> 00:09:16,770 we're paralyzed by fear. 254 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,440 And we just don't move because we're afraid to move. 255 00:09:19,590 --> 00:09:20,970 And in a business sense, 256 00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:22,260 if you're paralyzed, 257 00:09:22,260 --> 00:09:23,040 if you're frozen, 258 00:09:23,070 --> 00:09:24,630 you're going to decline. 259 00:09:24,750 --> 00:09:26,610 Businesses have to keep moving. 260 00:09:27,140 --> 00:09:31,340 So what would you suggest to our listeners to be watching 261 00:09:31,340 --> 00:09:35,360 for in their businesses so that they don't miss it? 262 00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:37,490 The world passes them by and they're just stuck. 263 00:09:37,490 --> 00:09:39,440 Are there any tips in that end, 264 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,740 just acknowledging that the concept exists in the first place, 265 00:09:42,740 --> 00:09:43,880 I guess would be one, 266 00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:46,100 but is there any other advice that you would offer? 267 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:46,910 Yeah. I mean, 268 00:09:46,910 --> 00:09:48,590 I think the numbers speak. 269 00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:50,690 So if your numbers are declining, 270 00:09:50,750 --> 00:09:52,790 then there can be a variety of things that are wrong, 271 00:09:52,820 --> 00:09:55,760 but one of the causes can be that your product just 272 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:56,930 isn't relevant anymore. 273 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,090 And that doesn't mean you're not relevant anymore. 274 00:09:59,180 --> 00:10:01,940 It just means you may need to rethink your product or 275 00:10:01,940 --> 00:10:02,990 how you're going to market. 276 00:10:03,140 --> 00:10:04,880 And so listen to the numbers. 277 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,560 And if you act like often, 278 00:10:06,590 --> 00:10:09,470 many of these big brands have acted when their product has 279 00:10:09,470 --> 00:10:10,340 become irrelevant, 280 00:10:10,340 --> 00:10:11,300 like Kodak and others, 281 00:10:11,390 --> 00:10:12,740 then you're stagnant, 282 00:10:12,770 --> 00:10:13,760 you're paralyzed, 283 00:10:13,790 --> 00:10:15,830 you're stubborn and you don't adapt, 284 00:10:15,860 --> 00:10:18,650 but if you can learn and if you're willing to change 285 00:10:18,650 --> 00:10:19,670 how you do things, 286 00:10:19,730 --> 00:10:20,930 not necessarily why. 287 00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:21,230 I mean, 288 00:10:21,230 --> 00:10:22,220 we all have a why, 289 00:10:22,220 --> 00:10:25,100 and we all have a passion that can stay true. 290 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,230 But if you're willing to change how you do things, 291 00:10:27,290 --> 00:10:28,340 alter your product, 292 00:10:28,340 --> 00:10:30,560 perhaps get it to market in a different way, 293 00:10:30,620 --> 00:10:32,450 then you can stay relevant. 294 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,130 You can adapt as the world changes, 295 00:10:34,460 --> 00:10:36,230 Right? So listening to your numbers, 296 00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:38,000 all important for multiple reasons, 297 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,220 but that could be the trigger that if your numbers are 298 00:10:40,220 --> 00:10:40,730 going down, 299 00:10:40,730 --> 00:10:42,890 there's something that you need to change. 300 00:10:42,950 --> 00:10:46,640 And I think it's great for our listeners too, 301 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,610 because it gives you an idea of how your product can 302 00:10:49,610 --> 00:10:52,760 change, which then offers you yet something else you can be 303 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,600 presenting to your customers to enhancement of your product or revision 304 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:57,290 of a product. 305 00:10:57,290 --> 00:11:00,170 So it's a great way to go back to existing business 306 00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:01,280 or existing customers, 307 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:01,760 I should say, 308 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,820 and get more business out of the afraid zone. 309 00:11:04,850 --> 00:11:07,940 We see that there's something that might need to change. 310 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,090 Talk a little bit more about drifting and where we should 311 00:11:11,090 --> 00:11:11,570 be going. 312 00:11:11,570 --> 00:11:15,620 If we're identifying that possibly our product is becoming irrelevant. 313 00:11:16,130 --> 00:11:18,590 The first things that we do as business people when we 314 00:11:18,620 --> 00:11:21,620 drift is we actually try to be all things to all 315 00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:23,120 people. We've all heard that saying. 316 00:11:23,180 --> 00:11:25,070 And when you try to be all things to all people, 317 00:11:25,070 --> 00:11:26,060 you're nothing to everybody. 318 00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:28,550 And so you've lost your focus in the analogy. 319 00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:29,600 If you're in the wilderness, 320 00:11:29,630 --> 00:11:31,640 one of the first things you'll learn to do, 321 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:32,480 if you're in the boy, 322 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,370 Scouts is you have to stop. 323 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,070 And it's an acronym for stop think, 324 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:38,210 observe, and plan. 325 00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:39,530 And so the first thing you need to do, 326 00:11:39,530 --> 00:11:41,480 if you're lost in the wilderness is stop. 327 00:11:41,540 --> 00:11:44,480 And it's the last thing you want to do when you're 328 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,550 nervous. When you think something's wrong, 329 00:11:46,580 --> 00:11:48,260 you want to jump into action. 330 00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:49,700 You want it to go away. 331 00:11:49,940 --> 00:11:51,350 You want things to be better. 332 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,950 Yeah. And you'll do anything to it better. 333 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:55,690 And so often you start acting wildly, 334 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:56,470 you lose your focus, 335 00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:57,670 you start pursuing business. 336 00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:58,660 You shouldn't pursue, 337 00:11:58,780 --> 00:12:01,180 it's not your original vision or your original passion. 338 00:12:01,210 --> 00:12:04,060 So you need to stop and just let yourself breathe for 339 00:12:04,060 --> 00:12:04,450 a moment. 340 00:12:04,630 --> 00:12:07,480 And then you need to orient yourself to the marketplace. 341 00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:09,430 What is the marketplace saying? 342 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,110 What does the marketplace want? 343 00:12:11,260 --> 00:12:12,670 And something that's interesting. 344 00:12:12,670 --> 00:12:14,470 If you look at some of these case studies is an 345 00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:15,730 example like blockbuster. 346 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,940 When you look at Blockbuster's path to irrelevance, 347 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,640 it wasn't that people didn't want entertainment. 348 00:12:21,730 --> 00:12:22,030 I mean, 349 00:12:22,030 --> 00:12:24,880 certainly argue that people wanted more entertainment than ever. 350 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:28,840 The issue for blockbuster was that people wanted entertainment even more. 351 00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:30,970 They wanted to in an even more convenient way, 352 00:12:31,060 --> 00:12:33,310 when they discovered they didn't have to get in the car 353 00:12:33,310 --> 00:12:34,600 and drive to a brick and mortar, 354 00:12:34,690 --> 00:12:36,730 then the world changed for everybody. 355 00:12:36,850 --> 00:12:39,940 So it wasn't that people didn't want what blockbuster provided. 356 00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:42,580 They didn't want it in the way blockbuster provided. 357 00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,650 So if you can orient yourself to the marketplace, 358 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,240 you can begin to become relevant. 359 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,090 Again, Let me stop you here for a second. 360 00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:51,030 And this is a great example because I think everybody saw 361 00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:53,160 the path blockbuster was running down. 362 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,890 Everyone could see that their future was going to be that 363 00:12:55,890 --> 00:12:57,840 direction unless they changed. 364 00:12:57,900 --> 00:12:59,880 But how does someone who has, 365 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,130 let's say two or three retail shops, 366 00:13:02,250 --> 00:13:05,850 how do you orient to your marketplace? 367 00:13:05,850 --> 00:13:07,020 How do you figure that out? 368 00:13:07,140 --> 00:13:09,300 If it's not as obvious as a blockbuster, 369 00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:13,770 There are so many more resources today than ever before for 370 00:13:13,830 --> 00:13:15,030 businesses of all stripes, 371 00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:19,020 whether you're a giant national brand or even you own a 372 00:13:19,020 --> 00:13:20,040 location or two, 373 00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:24,450 there are so many resources that not only provide research and 374 00:13:24,450 --> 00:13:25,530 insight into your company, 375 00:13:25,530 --> 00:13:28,920 but you can actually for a couple of hundred dollars conduct 376 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:29,670 your own surveys. 377 00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:31,410 Now through Google surveys and others, 378 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,960 there's these resources that used to be pretty difficult. 379 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,600 You'd have to pay thousands to get this information that now 380 00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:38,820 as a small business owner or an entrepreneur, 381 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,550 you can spend a couple hundred dollars and start testing your 382 00:13:41,550 --> 00:13:42,990 theories with the public. 383 00:13:43,140 --> 00:13:45,270 So I think the access is there, 384 00:13:45,270 --> 00:13:49,350 the knowledge is there it's first and foremost about stopping and 385 00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:53,010 listening. What is the marketplace saying to you or finding the 386 00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:55,470 resource because it's there find the resource, 387 00:13:55,470 --> 00:13:56,460 use the resource, 388 00:13:56,460 --> 00:13:57,960 ask the smart questions. 389 00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:58,980 What do people want? 390 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:00,570 What are people asking for? 391 00:14:00,630 --> 00:14:02,190 Look beneath the wild. 392 00:14:02,190 --> 00:14:04,290 Look beneath the noise and look for that signal. 393 00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:05,040 Good point. 394 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,630 And would you say also Jonathan, 395 00:14:06,630 --> 00:14:10,080 that don't just assume that your thoughts are right test, 396 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,530 what you're thinking you should be doing with your community before 397 00:14:13,530 --> 00:14:14,760 you start going down a path. 398 00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:16,350 That's not actually the right path. 399 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:21,750 Absolutely. I think piloting whatever product or new direction that somebody 400 00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:24,630 might take is absolutely the wisest thing you can do. 401 00:14:24,630 --> 00:14:27,510 Even more than just asking somebody what they think. 402 00:14:27,540 --> 00:14:30,570 Creating, create a proof of concept with the smallest amount of 403 00:14:30,570 --> 00:14:33,540 investment, create the thing you want to create and see how 404 00:14:33,540 --> 00:14:35,130 people react in the real world, 405 00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:38,490 which can often be far more interesting and far more informative 406 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,040 than just asking somebody if they want something. 407 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,390 Right. And don't ask a person, 408 00:14:42,390 --> 00:14:42,720 you know, 409 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,610 is going to give you the answer you want to hear. 410 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,350 Exactly. And then say, 411 00:14:46,350 --> 00:14:47,880 okay, we're done moving on. 412 00:14:48,630 --> 00:14:49,710 Yeah. That's never helpful. 413 00:14:49,710 --> 00:14:51,500 You need the cold hard truth when you're the wilderness. 414 00:14:51,530 --> 00:14:52,520 Yeah, for Sure. 415 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,170 Because any pivot that you do, 416 00:14:54,170 --> 00:14:55,730 if it's a product enhancement, 417 00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:59,120 adding to your core product line is Jonathan sane, 418 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,170 making sure to stay in, 419 00:15:00,170 --> 00:15:02,270 focus, stay with your core business, 420 00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:04,160 but any of that costs money, 421 00:15:04,190 --> 00:15:08,750 both in product development and advertising and just the time put 422 00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:11,540 in. So you want to make sure to the extent that 423 00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:12,080 you can, 424 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,730 that you're creating the right thing, 425 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,960 that's going to allow you to pivot and stay relevant Completely. 426 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,200 And I think another tactic to stay relevant and to test 427 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,570 ideas and to see what's going on out there is to 428 00:15:22,570 --> 00:15:24,010 connect with others. 429 00:15:24,010 --> 00:15:26,890 And one of the results of the wild of this feeling 430 00:15:26,890 --> 00:15:29,320 of being overwhelmed and there's just too much noise out there 431 00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:31,000 is, it can be very isolating. 432 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:31,930 Many times. 433 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,580 It just feels like you're alone. 434 00:15:33,580 --> 00:15:34,830 And I don't know what's going on. 435 00:15:34,930 --> 00:15:37,510 I don't have anybody to talk to when in reality, 436 00:15:37,510 --> 00:15:40,420 we're all feeling that way and it's okay to feel that 437 00:15:40,420 --> 00:15:42,430 way. And it's okay to acknowledge that you feel that way 438 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:43,510 to get out of that, 439 00:15:43,660 --> 00:15:45,610 to advance and to adapt and to innovate. 440 00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:46,840 You need to connect. 441 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,030 You have to be around other innovators, 442 00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:49,930 other business, 443 00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:51,310 people, other entrepreneurs, 444 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:52,150 other people, 445 00:15:52,180 --> 00:15:52,600 of course, 446 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,300 that are in your industry or that are experts in your 447 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:57,910 craft, but also experts in other craft. 448 00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:58,990 In other industries, 449 00:15:59,110 --> 00:16:00,250 you need variety, 450 00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:01,090 you need connection. 451 00:16:01,090 --> 00:16:02,770 And as you grow your network, 452 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,720 as you grow your relationships, 453 00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:07,840 you will find that those inputs will make you more creative 454 00:16:07,870 --> 00:16:11,230 and allow you to have a real pulse on what's going 455 00:16:11,230 --> 00:16:12,430 on. Right. 456 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:13,240 I agree with you. 457 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,300 And would you agree that connections can be online connections, 458 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,680 just what we're doing here. 459 00:16:17,710 --> 00:16:21,250 We're learning different things each week from different industries because we 460 00:16:21,250 --> 00:16:24,970 bring in all different types of people and then so important 461 00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:26,740 in-person connections to do. 462 00:16:26,740 --> 00:16:29,380 So you feel like all of that is required. 463 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:30,490 Absolutely. I mean, 464 00:16:30,490 --> 00:16:32,080 I'm a huge fan of podcasts. 465 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,240 I listen to podcasts all the time when I'm working out, 466 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,140 when I'm driving to work. 467 00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:36,820 Whenever I have a free moment, 468 00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:40,450 it's usually my preferred method to connect when I'm not in 469 00:16:40,450 --> 00:16:41,410 a personal setting. 470 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:42,850 So podcasts are huge. 471 00:16:42,910 --> 00:16:45,790 And I think there's something unique about podcasts in that they're 472 00:16:45,790 --> 00:16:46,660 very intimate. 473 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,600 You're kind of part of this conversation that it's really meaningful. 474 00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:50,860 So podcasts, 475 00:16:50,890 --> 00:16:52,930 as well as the people in your life, 476 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,990 the professional connections you have just grabbing coffee and, 477 00:16:56,050 --> 00:16:56,980 and being curious, 478 00:16:56,980 --> 00:16:58,750 asking this other professional, 479 00:16:58,750 --> 00:16:59,950 what's going on in your world, 480 00:16:59,950 --> 00:17:01,120 what's going on in your industry? 481 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,320 What challenges are you dealing with? 482 00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:03,730 And that kind of goes back to that. 483 00:17:03,790 --> 00:17:04,990 The word on the candle, 484 00:17:05,050 --> 00:17:06,310 give, be curious. 485 00:17:06,310 --> 00:17:09,970 People love to explore themselves their own environment. 486 00:17:09,970 --> 00:17:10,960 So be curious, 487 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:11,650 ask them, 488 00:17:11,650 --> 00:17:12,850 and then if they need something, 489 00:17:12,850 --> 00:17:15,220 be willing to give and you'll find out in the long 490 00:17:15,220 --> 00:17:17,740 run, you'll get a lot more if you're willing to give, 491 00:17:18,130 --> 00:17:20,530 I totally agree with you 100%. 492 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,280 So I want to talk a little bit more about you 493 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,020 set up a new product. 494 00:17:26,140 --> 00:17:30,280 You start going and connecting with people and it's uncomfortable, 495 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:30,430 you know, 496 00:17:30,430 --> 00:17:31,510 and a lot of people talk about this, 497 00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:33,520 right? Stepping outside your comfort zone, 498 00:17:33,550 --> 00:17:34,150 all of that. 499 00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:37,570 But I know you are a big fan and believe that 500 00:17:37,690 --> 00:17:41,950 that place of ambiguity and being a little uncertain and being 501 00:17:41,950 --> 00:17:44,860 a little bit uncomfortable is actually a good thing. 502 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,560 Why do you think that It's this whole idea that we're 503 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,120 dealing with so much uncertainty and ambiguity in the world around 504 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,760 us and just our human nature hates it. 505 00:17:53,850 --> 00:17:55,710 Our human nature hates uncertainty. 506 00:17:55,710 --> 00:17:58,680 I think we spend the majority of our life trying to 507 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:01,980 reduce or get rid of uncertainty everywhere we go. 508 00:18:02,130 --> 00:18:04,080 And the fact of the matter is when you just step 509 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,720 back and look at the world we live in not only 510 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,490 is uncertainty ever present, 511 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:09,840 it's only growing. 512 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,230 And the good news is that if you look around us, 513 00:18:13,290 --> 00:18:16,920 there are actually systems that thrive on ambiguity. 514 00:18:16,980 --> 00:18:19,950 There are systems that actually don't exist without ambiguity and they're 515 00:18:19,950 --> 00:18:21,360 systems like jazz, 516 00:18:21,390 --> 00:18:22,020 for instance. 517 00:18:22,020 --> 00:18:25,650 And if anybody saw Lala land so wonderful ode to jazz, 518 00:18:25,650 --> 00:18:26,640 it's a really fun movie. 519 00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:30,420 The thing I took from that is that jazz doesn't exist 520 00:18:30,420 --> 00:18:31,530 without ambiguity. 521 00:18:31,530 --> 00:18:32,010 In fact, 522 00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:34,320 if you want to reduce ambiguity and uncertainty, 523 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:35,550 go listen to an orchestra. 524 00:18:35,730 --> 00:18:38,250 But if you want to see a system that is built 525 00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:39,300 for today's world, 526 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:40,890 then go listen to a jazz band. 527 00:18:40,890 --> 00:18:43,650 As the different musicians are interacting with each other. 528 00:18:43,650 --> 00:18:44,220 At one moment, 529 00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:45,840 the basis is taking front stage. 530 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,240 And the next moment maybe the trumpet takes front stage. 531 00:18:48,270 --> 00:18:50,790 They're riffing off of each other's vibe off of the vibe 532 00:18:50,790 --> 00:18:51,870 of the audience. 533 00:18:51,930 --> 00:18:53,460 They're not using sheet music, 534 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:54,930 they're using their memory. 535 00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:55,980 And in many, 536 00:18:55,980 --> 00:18:56,640 many ways, 537 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,640 this reflects how we have to operate in today's world, 538 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,330 where instead of looking at uncertainty and ambiguity as this enemy, 539 00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:05,490 as this thing that we have to get rid of, 540 00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:06,990 look at it as an opportunity, 541 00:19:07,170 --> 00:19:09,390 if you are uncertain and you don't know what's going to 542 00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:10,380 happen, it's very, 543 00:19:10,380 --> 00:19:12,390 very likely that the next person is uncertain. 544 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,650 It doesn't know what's going to happen. 545 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,360 And that means there's an opportunity. 546 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:16,200 If you, 547 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:17,910 by connecting by innovating, 548 00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:20,790 by piloting ideas and products can get a little bit ahead 549 00:19:20,790 --> 00:19:22,470 of the game and figure it out. 550 00:19:22,590 --> 00:19:25,740 You can be the winner in this very uncertain environment. 551 00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:27,540 So it's not so much this enemy, 552 00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:30,270 the scary thing can actually be an opportunity. 553 00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:32,520 And that's what I mean by embrace ambiguity, 554 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:33,960 just as a jazz band, 555 00:19:34,110 --> 00:19:35,280 embraces ambiguity. 556 00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:36,680 I love that example. 557 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:37,520 It's perfect. 558 00:19:37,550 --> 00:19:40,430 And I just want to underline what Jonathan's talking about here. 559 00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:43,520 We are all coming from the same place because it's innate, 560 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:43,880 I guess, 561 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:45,380 in us as human beings, 562 00:19:45,380 --> 00:19:48,800 that we don't like that ambiguity and uncertainty. 563 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,200 So recognize that you're not alone in this. 564 00:19:51,230 --> 00:19:54,440 Every single person is going through something like this. 565 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,270 And the idea of ambiguity, 566 00:19:56,270 --> 00:19:56,960 it kind of, 567 00:19:56,990 --> 00:19:58,220 the word comes to me. 568 00:19:58,220 --> 00:20:01,550 It's a catalyst because it kind of prompts you to be 569 00:20:01,580 --> 00:20:05,930 creative and there in lies and opportunity that others might never 570 00:20:05,930 --> 00:20:07,970 take advantage of Exactly. 571 00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:09,320 When you think about art, 572 00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:11,270 when you think about creativity, 573 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:15,320 it really is based on this idea of creating clarity out 574 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,280 of ambiguity. 575 00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:17,930 So even as an artist, 576 00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:21,590 fundamentally artists I think are a little more comfortable with ambiguity 577 00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:24,290 and that does give you an advantage in today's new world. 578 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:25,400 Good point. 579 00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:26,450 Really good point. 580 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,410 So if you were to break this down in maybe three 581 00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:34,220 steps, what are three things that you would advise our listeners 582 00:20:34,220 --> 00:20:37,820 to look at in this whole realm of why Yourself, 583 00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:42,200 if you understand that your reaction to disruption is very predictable, 584 00:20:42,260 --> 00:20:44,510 then you can really diagnose where you are. 585 00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:46,130 If you look at your company today, 586 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,850 are you acting, 587 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,960 are you just trying things because you're desperate and don't know 588 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:50,650 what else to do. 589 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:52,060 Have you lost your focus? 590 00:20:52,150 --> 00:20:53,560 Did you have an original vision? 591 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,510 And now you're way over here and you're not sure what 592 00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:56,320 you're doing anymore. 593 00:20:56,620 --> 00:20:57,520 Look at yourself, 594 00:20:57,550 --> 00:21:00,250 have some self-reflection that's part of the idea of stopping. 595 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,290 Think about where you are and where you are in that 596 00:21:02,290 --> 00:21:04,540 very predictable response to disruption. 597 00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:06,730 Then I would go back to what I said before you 598 00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:07,420 need to stop, 599 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,030 and then you need to orient yourself to the marketplace. 600 00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:11,940 And this is done in a variety of ways. 601 00:21:12,010 --> 00:21:14,560 Test your products in real world scenarios, 602 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:15,730 with real customers, 603 00:21:15,790 --> 00:21:19,180 you need to get access to those easy resources that are 604 00:21:19,180 --> 00:21:20,740 out there to test ideas. 605 00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:23,410 And to Google surveys is a great example of that. 606 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,810 And then once you've stopped, 607 00:21:25,870 --> 00:21:29,170 you've really discovered yourself and you oriented yourself to the marketplace. 608 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,610 It's time to do something. 609 00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:33,520 And this is another mistake we see a lot in our 610 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,430 practice is that when people are afraid and they're dealing with 611 00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:39,310 disruption, if they can get past just the feeling of being 612 00:21:39,310 --> 00:21:41,620 paralyzed, they'll start talking and reflecting, 613 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,770 but it can be another battle to go do something it's 614 00:21:44,770 --> 00:21:47,440 a lot easier to keep talking and keep planning. 615 00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:48,850 But once you've done that, 616 00:21:48,850 --> 00:21:50,170 you need to set aside the plan, 617 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,150 put it down and go do something, 618 00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:53,710 get into the marketplace, 619 00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:55,150 build that thing, 620 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:55,960 test it. 621 00:21:56,020 --> 00:22:00,700 And if you're following these pretty simple steps of reflection, 622 00:22:00,790 --> 00:22:02,680 orientation, and then doing, 623 00:22:02,890 --> 00:22:05,620 and then keep repeating that and be okay with failure, 624 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,570 go back to the drawing board and try again. 625 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,530 You're going to get ahead. 626 00:22:08,530 --> 00:22:12,190 You're going to find something that works and begin to discover 627 00:22:12,190 --> 00:22:14,830 what adaption really does mean in the midst of this uncertainty. 628 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,750 Beautiful. You have summarized this wonderfully, 629 00:22:18,810 --> 00:22:21,690 and I want to expand a little bit on your 0.3, 630 00:22:21,690 --> 00:22:23,880 which is do something take action. 631 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,900 You Jonathan are working with national large brands. 632 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,100 And I would suggest to our listeners that we have such 633 00:22:32,130 --> 00:22:33,720 a bigger opportunity. 634 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,630 And Jonathan has it much harder convincing some of the larger 635 00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:38,670 brands because he has the whole hierarchy. 636 00:22:38,670 --> 00:22:40,770 He has to go through to get approval, 637 00:22:40,770 --> 00:22:41,790 to spend money, 638 00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:43,470 make changes in product marketing, 639 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:44,520 whatever it is. 640 00:22:44,550 --> 00:22:48,360 We are so much more nimble as small and medium sized 641 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:49,290 business owners. 642 00:22:49,290 --> 00:22:52,500 We either just report to ourself or we run the business 643 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:54,240 and control all the shots. 644 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,580 So in terms of being able to be timely, 645 00:22:56,580 --> 00:22:57,720 to make changes, 646 00:22:57,750 --> 00:23:02,370 just saying yes to making changes is totally in our favor. 647 00:23:02,430 --> 00:23:05,850 And that is just a short step away from actually taking 648 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,550 action. And that's where all the difference is. 649 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,300 I talked about this in my intro to this podcast, 650 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:13,770 like two years ago, 651 00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:16,740 what an opportunity we have as small business owners. 652 00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:18,690 And we haven't talked about it Jonathan, 653 00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:19,770 since just right now. 654 00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:22,710 So thank you so much for bringing this up And I 655 00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:24,120 don't want to underline that point. 656 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,280 So I think that is extremely important, 657 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:27,090 extremely true. 658 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,600 And the problem with that truth is that it doesn't feel 659 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,230 that way. 660 00:23:31,380 --> 00:23:33,630 If you're one of the smaller companies, 661 00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:37,740 it feels the wild feels overwhelming and it feels isolating. 662 00:23:37,890 --> 00:23:38,970 When in reality, 663 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,440 you are completely correct. 664 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,440 You have so much more room to innovate and change. 665 00:23:43,470 --> 00:23:45,000 And if you look at the innovators, 666 00:23:45,140 --> 00:23:46,760 the disruptors in the world right now, 667 00:23:46,820 --> 00:23:50,960 they all start small because that enables them to be innovative. 668 00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:53,510 And one of the topics I discussed in the book is 669 00:23:53,540 --> 00:23:55,040 there's a whole chapter on adaption. 670 00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:56,600 I pull from Mark Parker. 671 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,200 Who's the CEO of Nike who discusses this concept a lot 672 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,010 because he's very, 673 00:24:01,010 --> 00:24:02,570 very honest about this. 674 00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:07,250 He has recognized that size is actually now a vulnerability, 675 00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:09,980 because if you have been successful in the past, 676 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:12,380 then you can start to believe the lie that, 677 00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:14,870 that success and the way you did it will make you 678 00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:15,650 successful in the future. 679 00:24:15,740 --> 00:24:17,450 And that's just not the case anymore. 680 00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:21,110 So those of us who do own and operate small businesses, 681 00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:23,240 we completely have an advantage. 682 00:24:23,270 --> 00:24:26,270 If we can get past this feeling of being overwhelmed and 683 00:24:26,270 --> 00:24:29,540 isolated and break out and connect and start to do and 684 00:24:29,540 --> 00:24:30,980 start to test our ideas, 685 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,340 we really do have the opportunity and the advantage to innovate 686 00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:36,050 where a lot of these bigger companies, 687 00:24:36,050 --> 00:24:37,580 they're just paralyzed by their size. 688 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,020 Absolutely. I totally agree with you there. 689 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,500 And I think another concept I've been hearing a lot about 690 00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:47,500 lately, I think it came from James Wedmore, 691 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,520 but I'm not certain, 692 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:49,990 I'm pretty sure it was James Wedmore. 693 00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:52,480 And he talks about what got you to where you are 694 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,850 now is not necessarily the same thing. 695 00:24:54,850 --> 00:24:57,250 That's going to get you to where you should be in 696 00:24:57,250 --> 00:25:00,670 a few years back to your point about having to continually 697 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:02,050 adapt and change. 698 00:25:02,170 --> 00:25:04,510 As we're closing this portion out, 699 00:25:04,510 --> 00:25:08,380 Jonathan, talk a little bit more about what the golden nuggets 700 00:25:08,380 --> 00:25:11,500 are that are inside your book that we haven't addressed here. 701 00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:12,430 Because again, 702 00:25:12,430 --> 00:25:14,650 this is a topic that I think all of our listeners 703 00:25:14,650 --> 00:25:16,540 should really be very aware of. 704 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,540 And I'm sure there's some things we haven't covered everything in 705 00:25:19,540 --> 00:25:19,840 your book, 706 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,790 but just give us a feel for what else is in 707 00:25:21,790 --> 00:25:24,550 there so that we can think about taking a further look 708 00:25:24,550 --> 00:25:24,820 at it. 709 00:25:25,150 --> 00:25:25,960 Certainly. Well, 710 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,930 the book is a lot of fun simply because I've taken 711 00:25:28,990 --> 00:25:32,320 our 10 years of proprietary research and correlated it with the 712 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,190 latest in survival, 713 00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:37,390 psychology and looked at all of these fascinating stories of survival. 714 00:25:37,390 --> 00:25:40,600 So we have stories of Teddy Roosevelt going down a tributary 715 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,940 of the Amazon river or Ernest Shackleton, 716 00:25:43,030 --> 00:25:45,160 trying to traverse Antarctica and many, 717 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:45,820 many more. 718 00:25:45,970 --> 00:25:48,760 And there are these fascinating stories in that these group of 719 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,400 people confront some amazing challenge. 720 00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:55,210 They have all this hardship and all of these psychological processes 721 00:25:55,210 --> 00:26:00,160 underway and their successes and failures are very much correlated with 722 00:26:00,190 --> 00:26:01,090 our own research, 723 00:26:01,090 --> 00:26:04,720 into the factors that affect business success and what we see 724 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,120 in all the case studies of some of the biggest companies 725 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,720 who have faced hardship and made it through like Lego and 726 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,750 Marvel and other companies who have faced hardship like blockbuster and 727 00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:16,570 Kodak and have declined and really become irrelevant. 728 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,480 So it's a fun book that uses all of these real 729 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,860 life survival stories. 730 00:26:20,860 --> 00:26:23,920 And it pulls from the research to bring it down to 731 00:26:23,980 --> 00:26:25,210 practical level. 732 00:26:25,330 --> 00:26:27,400 Many people have called it a survival guide for business, 733 00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:29,920 just because we take a high level concepts and then bring 734 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,540 them down to a practical level, 735 00:26:31,570 --> 00:26:32,500 things that you can use, 736 00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:34,990 tips that you can use in your everyday business to help 737 00:26:34,990 --> 00:26:36,250 you through the wild, 738 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,630 this uncertainty we're all dealing with. 739 00:26:37,870 --> 00:26:39,010 Perfect. Thank you. 740 00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:41,770 You've piqued my curiosity now for sure. 741 00:26:41,860 --> 00:26:43,290 And I'm going to challenge now, 742 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,790 Jonathan. I can't wait. 743 00:26:44,850 --> 00:26:45,330 Oh, okay. 744 00:26:45,330 --> 00:26:45,960 Here you go. 745 00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:49,500 What has been wild or what has that done for you 746 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,330 in your life or in your career? 747 00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:52,580 Well, it's interesting. 748 00:26:52,580 --> 00:26:55,610 My career has really been made and molded during what I 749 00:26:55,610 --> 00:26:58,940 would consider one of the most wild times in recent history 750 00:26:58,940 --> 00:27:00,920 for our country and that's through the great recession. 751 00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:05,090 So most of my career has really grown dealing with clients 752 00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:08,150 and helping clients who don't have very much resource. 753 00:27:08,150 --> 00:27:09,530 Their budgets are being slashed. 754 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,080 Neurology is changing so much what used to work in the 755 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,440 past. Isn't working as effectively now and we're being tasked with 756 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,150 doing so much more with so much less. 757 00:27:17,150 --> 00:27:19,700 And so I really feel like my whole career has been 758 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:22,730 in the wild and even the company that we built here, 759 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:23,480 McKee Wallwork, 760 00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:24,830 we're celebrating 20 years. 761 00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:26,510 And when you think about a marketing firm, 762 00:27:26,510 --> 00:27:30,950 that's a pretty amazing feat in how much this industry changes. 763 00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:33,860 And so the wild is really it's part of this company. 764 00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:34,670 It's part of me, 765 00:27:34,670 --> 00:27:35,930 it's how we operate. 766 00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:36,980 We understand it. 767 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,620 And this book brand vs wild is just kind of the 768 00:27:39,620 --> 00:27:43,430 natural conclusion of many years of experience and research. 769 00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:45,370 That explains how to deal with it. 770 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:46,700 Perfect. All right. 771 00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:48,260 Moving on here a little bit. 772 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,750 I want to get into our reflection section, 773 00:27:50,750 --> 00:27:53,000 which is talking a little bit more about you and how 774 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:53,990 you work your day. 775 00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:57,110 We might find some gold nuggets that would also help our 776 00:27:57,110 --> 00:28:00,950 listeners. Is there a natural trait that you have, 777 00:28:00,950 --> 00:28:03,590 that's helped you overcome the wild, 778 00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:04,070 if you will. 779 00:28:04,430 --> 00:28:04,670 You know, 780 00:28:04,670 --> 00:28:07,040 I think one of the natural traits I have is simply 781 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,120 connecting dots. 782 00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:08,570 There's nothing, 783 00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:09,680 super human going on. 784 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,750 It is something that comes naturally to me. 785 00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:15,200 And whether that's something like reading a book or watching a 786 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,330 movie and kind of seeing how it all fits together, 787 00:28:17,420 --> 00:28:21,170 all the way to business and economics and seeing how all 788 00:28:21,170 --> 00:28:25,550 of these seemingly disparate points of contact and actions and activities 789 00:28:25,580 --> 00:28:28,730 really do come together to form some sort of narrative. 790 00:28:28,850 --> 00:28:32,030 So connecting the dots has helped me a lot because you 791 00:28:32,030 --> 00:28:33,110 know, our company Makua, 792 00:28:33,170 --> 00:28:36,050 we actually work with brands who would call themselves stalled, 793 00:28:36,050 --> 00:28:36,920 stuck or stale. 794 00:28:37,010 --> 00:28:39,620 So they're facing some pretty particular challenge. 795 00:28:39,620 --> 00:28:41,960 And often it's a disruption in their industry or a new 796 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,990 competitor causing a lot of trouble and figuring out what to 797 00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:46,100 do. Isn't easy. 798 00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:46,290 I mean, 799 00:28:46,290 --> 00:28:47,480 it's, it's pretty complicated. 800 00:28:47,570 --> 00:28:50,210 You have to really look at a lot of information and 801 00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:52,010 find what is the story here? 802 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,020 What point are we going to act on? 803 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:56,690 And so connecting the dots has helped me a lot in 804 00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:57,950 my career in my life. 805 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,280 But I also think that I've been told, 806 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:00,530 you know, 807 00:29:00,530 --> 00:29:01,820 it's kind of awkward talking about yourself, 808 00:29:01,850 --> 00:29:05,390 but I've been told that I do listen before I speak. 809 00:29:05,450 --> 00:29:08,450 And I think listening is more important than ever today. 810 00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:10,100 There's a lot of people talking. 811 00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:11,960 There's a lot of people that are happy to give you 812 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:12,560 their opinion, 813 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:13,130 but there's very, 814 00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:15,800 very few that are willing to really just listen. 815 00:29:15,980 --> 00:29:19,100 And if you're willing to stop and listen and see what 816 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:22,910 is your customer actually want and kind of peel back the 817 00:29:22,910 --> 00:29:24,980 layers of not just what they're saying, 818 00:29:24,980 --> 00:29:26,780 but really what their deeper desires are. 819 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,250 You can make it a long way. 820 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,890 You can use that information to be more creative and to 821 00:29:30,890 --> 00:29:31,940 try new products. 822 00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:34,220 So I think connecting the dots and listening has helped me 823 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:34,880 lock perfect, 824 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,950 Perfect, really valuable information there. 825 00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:41,560 Is there a tool like a technological tool or something you 826 00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:44,410 are using that you just could not get through your day 827 00:29:44,410 --> 00:29:46,740 without Technological tool? 828 00:29:46,770 --> 00:29:49,590 I wish I didn't rely on my phone so much. 829 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,470 I tell people if they can steal my car before they 830 00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:53,160 steal my phone, 831 00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:55,770 period, I completely agree with that. 832 00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:57,450 What are you using your phone for? 833 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,290 Let's go with that. 834 00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:00,090 Well, a variety of things. 835 00:30:00,090 --> 00:30:01,560 So I'm constantly on email. 836 00:30:01,620 --> 00:30:03,330 I'm constantly using it for my calendar. 837 00:30:03,390 --> 00:30:04,470 I use Google calendar. 838 00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:07,560 I'm constantly using it for my social platforms on four different 839 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,250 social platforms. 840 00:30:08,250 --> 00:30:10,170 And then I use it for beyond that. 841 00:30:10,170 --> 00:30:11,310 It's more consumption. 842 00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:14,100 So what's the latest in advertising. 843 00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:16,320 What's the latest from wired or fast company. 844 00:30:16,410 --> 00:30:18,390 What's the new innovation that I need to be aware of. 845 00:30:18,690 --> 00:30:20,430 And when you're traveling, 846 00:30:20,430 --> 00:30:22,740 do you still bring a computer or do you rely solely 847 00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:23,370 on your phone? 848 00:30:23,370 --> 00:30:25,710 Like so many people are starting to do No. 849 00:30:25,710 --> 00:30:28,350 I always bring my MacBook air with me. 850 00:30:28,380 --> 00:30:29,070 I love it. 851 00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:32,160 It's So light. 852 00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:33,300 And so portable. 853 00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:36,930 I used to carry this five pound giant laptop with me 854 00:30:36,930 --> 00:30:39,150 and MacBook air is amazing when I travel. 855 00:30:39,150 --> 00:30:39,780 It's kind of, 856 00:30:39,810 --> 00:30:40,050 you know, 857 00:30:40,050 --> 00:30:41,490 I don't like me to wait for my family. 858 00:30:41,490 --> 00:30:42,480 I miss my kids. 859 00:30:42,570 --> 00:30:44,070 It's not my favorite thing to do on the world, 860 00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:45,570 but I do travel quite a bit. 861 00:30:45,630 --> 00:30:49,410 And so I do appreciate those little moments on the plane 862 00:30:49,410 --> 00:30:51,870 or sometimes in the corner of an airport where it's just 863 00:30:51,930 --> 00:30:54,330 me and I can put on my headphones and I pull 864 00:30:54,330 --> 00:30:55,080 out my laptop. 865 00:30:55,140 --> 00:30:55,950 I can just write. 866 00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:57,960 It's a moment of quiet and silence. 867 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,600 That just isn't in the rest of my life. 868 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,730 Being on the road a lot is being able to pull 869 00:31:02,730 --> 00:31:03,600 out my MacBook air. 870 00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:04,500 And I will say, 871 00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:05,610 it's not the same. 872 00:31:05,670 --> 00:31:05,850 I mean, 873 00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:07,770 I take a lot of notes on my phone when something 874 00:31:07,770 --> 00:31:08,490 strikes me, 875 00:31:08,610 --> 00:31:11,490 but it's not the same as having a keyboard in front 876 00:31:11,490 --> 00:31:11,700 of you. 877 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:12,630 I'm right with you. 878 00:31:12,660 --> 00:31:13,560 Totally agree. 879 00:31:13,650 --> 00:31:15,390 Besides your book, 880 00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:17,850 which of course we're going to have in the show notes 881 00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:18,330 and all. 882 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,420 Is there another book that you would recommend to our listeners? 883 00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:22,410 Absolutely. Yeah. 884 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:23,160 There's a lot of books, 885 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,980 but I think one of my favorite books of all time 886 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:29,040 that has really changed how I do business and reinforce how 887 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,190 I do business is a business book called getting naked by 888 00:31:32,190 --> 00:31:33,420 Patrick Lencioni. 889 00:31:33,570 --> 00:31:36,780 And it's actually written as a parable of business parable. 890 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,150 And then it kind of explains it in more business terms, 891 00:31:39,150 --> 00:31:40,170 following the parable, 892 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,290 but it really just dives into the heart of business. 893 00:31:43,290 --> 00:31:46,320 And he has several concepts in it that have changed my 894 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,670 world and really focused how I try to help people and 895 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:50,850 serve my clients. 896 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,580 And one of those concepts is entering the danger. 897 00:31:53,670 --> 00:31:56,640 And you'll find that if you're sitting in a meeting with 898 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,710 several people and something awkward comes up, 899 00:31:58,740 --> 00:32:00,900 usually the group tries to move past it. 900 00:32:00,990 --> 00:32:05,100 Or maybe somebody doesn't agree and is passive aggressively undermining a 901 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,500 decision, but nobody's going to bring it up because it's awkward. 902 00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:09,030 Well in this book getting naked, 903 00:32:09,030 --> 00:32:09,630 he says, 904 00:32:09,690 --> 00:32:10,650 enter that danger. 905 00:32:10,650 --> 00:32:11,910 If you see something awkward, 906 00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:13,170 if somebody is offended, 907 00:32:13,170 --> 00:32:14,370 if there's something going on, 908 00:32:14,370 --> 00:32:17,310 you need to enter that and deal with it for responding 909 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:19,590 with that is this concept of the kind truth. 910 00:32:19,650 --> 00:32:21,240 And this is something we talk about a lot in my 911 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,250 company because without kindness, 912 00:32:23,250 --> 00:32:25,500 truth can just be harsh and not helpful, 913 00:32:25,530 --> 00:32:26,790 but without truth, 914 00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:28,950 kindness is completely unhelpful. 915 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,660 You need the kind of truth you need, 916 00:32:30,660 --> 00:32:31,740 those things put together. 917 00:32:31,770 --> 00:32:33,870 So if you have the kind truth in what I think, 918 00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:34,080 you know, 919 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,310 all businesses relationship, 920 00:32:35,340 --> 00:32:37,170 if you have the kind of truth and you're entering the 921 00:32:37,170 --> 00:32:39,090 danger, having the hard conversations, 922 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,060 focusing on giving and relationship over just products and profit, 923 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,890 then you will get a lot farther in life. 924 00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:48,380 And so getting naked by Patrick Lencioni has meant a lot 925 00:32:48,380 --> 00:32:48,860 in my career. 926 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,580 You've got a couple of quotes there that you should be 927 00:32:51,610 --> 00:32:52,540 promoting out, 928 00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:54,730 or I'm going to do it for you because that is 929 00:32:54,730 --> 00:32:55,480 also true. 930 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,910 And I can just see it in a board room or 931 00:32:57,940 --> 00:33:01,720 with friends or wherever someone says something awkward and people will 932 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,300 just, it's like pushing the elephant out of the door, 933 00:33:04,330 --> 00:33:05,740 not addressing it at all, 934 00:33:05,770 --> 00:33:07,300 but the shadow is still there. 935 00:33:08,110 --> 00:33:09,160 It's still sitting there. 936 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,120 It was never addressed. 937 00:33:10,150 --> 00:33:13,120 I can't say it anywhere near as eloquently as you did, 938 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,290 but really, 939 00:33:14,290 --> 00:33:15,130 really great. 940 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,100 And give biz listeners just as you're listening to the podcast 941 00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:20,740 today, you can also listen to audio books with ease. 942 00:33:20,770 --> 00:33:23,350 I've teamed up with audible for you to be able to 943 00:33:23,380 --> 00:33:24,910 get an audio book. 944 00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:27,640 I don't know if getting naked is audible is your book 945 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:28,270 brand vs. 946 00:33:28,270 --> 00:33:32,350 Wild Bread versus wild will be available on audible on May 947 00:33:32,410 --> 00:33:33,460 2nd. Perfect. 948 00:33:33,490 --> 00:33:36,100 So you'll be able to get either of these books for 949 00:33:36,190 --> 00:33:38,710 free on me if you haven't done so already, 950 00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:40,330 all you need to do is go to gift biz, 951 00:33:40,330 --> 00:33:42,730 book.com and make your selection. 952 00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:43,720 Okay, Jonathan, 953 00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:46,480 we're winding down to the end and now I would like 954 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,400 to have you dare to dream. 955 00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:50,470 I'd like to present you with a virtual gift. 956 00:33:50,530 --> 00:33:55,030 It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future. 957 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,570 So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable 958 00:33:58,570 --> 00:34:00,310 Heights that you would wish to obtain. 959 00:34:00,490 --> 00:34:03,460 Please accept this gift and open it in our presence. 960 00:34:03,490 --> 00:34:04,630 What is inside your box? 961 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,220 Wow. Okay. 962 00:34:06,220 --> 00:34:07,090 This is a big one. 963 00:34:07,660 --> 00:34:09,790 I'm excited drum roll drum roll. 964 00:34:10,630 --> 00:34:13,660 Besides joining Elon Musk on a trip around the moon, 965 00:34:13,720 --> 00:34:15,010 which would be amazing. 966 00:34:15,070 --> 00:34:16,900 I think this kind of goes back to the idea of 967 00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:17,320 give and, 968 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,950 and sort of just the general ethos of my company and 969 00:34:19,950 --> 00:34:20,560 my career. 970 00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:21,430 Of course, 971 00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:22,600 I have goals in life. 972 00:34:22,630 --> 00:34:24,610 Writing a book was a goal writing. 973 00:34:24,610 --> 00:34:27,640 Another book is another goal growing my business. 974 00:34:27,700 --> 00:34:29,620 There's a variety of things I want to do, 975 00:34:29,620 --> 00:34:31,210 but this is a big question. 976 00:34:31,210 --> 00:34:32,740 And so I think at the end of the day, 977 00:34:32,740 --> 00:34:35,890 if I'm opening up this box and inside there's this thing, 978 00:34:36,130 --> 00:34:38,470 I think it might be a picture or even a video 979 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,050 of me on my death bed and my hope and my 980 00:34:41,050 --> 00:34:43,180 dream would be that I'm not alone. 981 00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:45,730 That there are a lot of people around me and my 982 00:34:45,730 --> 00:34:47,290 hope and my dream would be that there's not just a 983 00:34:47,290 --> 00:34:49,510 lot of people that the hallways filled the rooms feel they're 984 00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:50,440 standing room only. 985 00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:53,830 And that my life has been more than just a series 986 00:34:53,830 --> 00:34:57,190 of accomplishments that I've really taken the time to focus on 987 00:34:57,190 --> 00:35:00,010 what matters and that at the end of it all, 988 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,410 that has been reflected in the relationships around me. 989 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,080 So that's what I hope I see when I open this 990 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:05,920 magical box. 991 00:35:06,130 --> 00:35:07,060 Wonderful, perfect. 992 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,200 And give biz listeners, 993 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:08,980 you know, 994 00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:11,020 that over on the show notes page, 995 00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:14,140 there will be links to everything for Jonathan, 996 00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:15,430 including his book. 997 00:35:15,460 --> 00:35:17,950 So go over there and check that out. 998 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:18,970 And Jonathan, 999 00:35:19,060 --> 00:35:20,140 I'm not going to say that. 1000 00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:23,500 I hope your dream comes true any time too soon. 1001 00:35:23,740 --> 00:35:25,330 But when that time comes, 1002 00:35:25,330 --> 00:35:27,040 I do hope that that's the case. 1003 00:35:27,070 --> 00:35:28,270 And in the meantime, 1004 00:35:28,270 --> 00:35:30,910 I know you're going to continue going on and affecting people's 1005 00:35:30,910 --> 00:35:32,410 lives. Your concepts, 1006 00:35:32,410 --> 00:35:32,980 your thoughts, 1007 00:35:32,980 --> 00:35:35,980 your direction has been so helpful for us here. 1008 00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:38,580 And I know my listeners join me in saying, 1009 00:35:38,610 --> 00:35:40,230 may your candle always burn, 1010 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:47,930 right? Where are you in your business building journey, 1011 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:50,570 whether you're just starting out or already running a business, 1012 00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:53,300 and you want to know your setup for success, 1013 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,550 find out why taking the gift biz quiz, 1014 00:35:56,030 --> 00:35:59,120 access the quiz from your computer at Vic dot L Y 1015 00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:03,260 slash gift biz quiz or from your phone by texting gift 1016 00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:04,880 biz quiz to four four two, 1017 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:05,570 two, two. 1018 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,270 Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for the 1019 00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:09,110 next episode. 1020 00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:13,910 Today's show is sponsored by the ribbon print company, 1021 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,130 looking for a new income source. 1022 00:36:16,130 --> 00:36:20,150 When your gift business customization is more popular now than ever 1023 00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:21,560 branded products, 1024 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,780 have your logo or print a happy birthday, 1025 00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:25,580 Jessica ribbon to add to a gift, 1026 00:36:25,610 --> 00:36:26,450 right at checkout, 1027 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,510 it's all done right in your shop or across studio. 1028 00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:33,230 And second check off the ribbon print company.com 1029 00:36:33,350 --> 00:36:34,340 for more information, 1030 00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:36,950 after you listened to the show, 1031 00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:38,390 if you like what you're hearing, 1032 00:36:38,690 --> 00:36:41,450 make sure to jump over and subscribe to the show on 1033 00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:45,260 iTunes. That way you'll automatically get the newest episodes when they 1034 00:36:45,260 --> 00:36:45,680 go live. 1035 00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:49,190 And thank you to those who have already left a rating 1036 00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:53,930 and review by subscribing rating and reviewing help to increase the 1037 00:36:53,930 --> 00:36:55,820 visibility of gifts on round. 1038 00:36:56,330 --> 00:36:57,950 It's a great way to pay it forward, 1039 00:36:58,220 --> 00:37:01,160 to help others with their entrepreneurial journey as well.