I heard recently that there was Peter Dunworth, which I'm sure you know,

he was saying that he heard of two of the major banks in Australia already

putting together frameworks to custody Bitcoin. Are you familiar with

any of that or can you give us some insight into banking? I can't say too much because... Is

There's really no way around it man, unfortunately. Australia is losing, and

will lose, a lot of tax revenue over the next 10 years because they're

How did you manage to get Michael Saylor at your convention? What

We just annoyed the hell out of him, basically. I look at Bitcoin as

a way for everyone to create sustainable

I'm Matthew Fraser, and this is Crypto Collective. After

making millions with Amazon and e-commerce, I realized that

if I was starting again today, crypto would be my

first choice. I'm here to help you take your first steps

and build real wealth. Ready to set yourself up for life? Let's

go. 2024 speech was about vision

and conviction. Now, would you say in the current climate, are you still holding

Always, man. I've been holding vision and conviction for almost 10 years.

So that's never going to waver for me. I think most people in the industry that

have been in the industry for a while, and most people that I speak to anyway, have got

quite solid conviction in Bitcoin and in blockchain. in

what everyone's building here. So it's only those that I see entering the market

that tend to lose some of that conviction and some of that vision.

But that's normal. I mean, once you've been orange peeled,

you sort of get that conviction back anyway. I think most people have to

go through a bear market to really understand what this market is

Or would you say then, Dave, that considering we're now down to

28% from the all-time high in Bitcoin, do you think we're going into a bear market?

No, I don't think we're going into a bear market yet. I mean, what was it? This time

last year, we were sitting at around $40,000, $50,000 Bitcoin. To

be complaining about $80,000 Bitcoin is probably a bit silly in

a 12-month turnaround. I get that a lot of the

hype around 100k BTC is when

a lot of people started buying in and now they're down. So that's the

nature of the game. It's a zero-sum game. If someone's buying, someone's selling.

You know, I understand the hurt people feel. I've been through it. I went

through it, you know, numerous times over where you've bought in and then the

price has dropped and you've just got to hold strong and just be

patient. And I think the old saying of time in the market versus

timing the market has never been more important than now. So I

just, I don't think we're in a bear market. I think we're still gigabullish, if

I could say that. There's too much fundamentals happening around the

world. I mean, I'm a technical trader. I trade on both technicals and

fundamentals. You know, the fundamentals behind Bitcoin at the moment are

just so strong and stronger than they've ever been. So I

just don't see how we can go into a full-blown bear

Wow. I mean, what did you make of the Trump summit

I think it's good. I think it's a first step in the right direction. I mean,

people were disappointed that Trump didn't announce that he was going to start buying

you know, shitloads of Bitcoin. But I think, if anything, it

shows an element of caution, which is

actually a good thing long term. I think that if any world

leader just FOMOs into Bitcoin, as much as we'd love that, for

those of us that have been in the market a long time, I think that showing some restraint and

showing some caution could be a good thing long term,

especially when it comes to getting other governments on side. So I

think that like anyone that enters the market, the

US government will hold a certain amount of Bitcoin and

then eventually they'll get some FOMO and I'll start buying

some more. So, I just think it's step number one of a 10-step program.

Yeah. Did you think the fact that they've actually separated out,

I guess, Bitcoin separate as a strategic reserve to

For Bitcoin, definitely. I think having a strategic reserve for altcoins

If I can say it's a stupid decision, then I'll say that. But

look, altcoins and Bitcoin are chalk and cheese. Bitcoin

has become a class of its own outside of cryptocurrency, in my opinion. So

having a Bitcoin strategic reserve absolutely makes sense. Having

altcoins included in that As I

said, it's ill-informed, it's a silly decision as far

as I'm concerned, and it shouldn't be included in the reserve at all. You

know, I don't think it will be long term. I think that, as I said, it's step

one of step 10. And I think that he'll have a lot smarter people look at the

situation and hopefully cooler heads will prevail and

Yeah. So they're talking, I saw today that the government's trying

to refinance the debt. Right. So they're trying to bring down interest

rates. And then, of course, then hopefully we get some sort of liquidity and

I do. I think that overall we're in a market correction and

it's quite normal for those that are watching and listening. It's, you

know, Bitcoin retraces 30 to 50% pretty frequently

in the big scheme of things. So it's not uncommon. And

I think that's all that's happening now is we're doing a liquidity hunt.

We're looking for more money in the market. I think that where we are

now is probably going to be a local bottom, you know, touch wood, fingers crossed,

all those things. From here, we'll probably

range for the rest of March to, you know, 90K and

then April to sort of 90, 95 and so on from there. But if

we can create some more liquidity in the market, then obviously people are going to start using

their expendable or disposable income or extra money

Yeah. Let me ask you, Dave, when, you know, you've been through so many

cycles, when you come to these types of

dips, do you still buy into these dips?

After so many years in the market. Yeah, definitely. Are

you keeping cash reserves at some point in order

My overall strategy is stack stats, right? So, I'm not a Bitcoin maxi

in terms of I will not touch altcoins, but I'm a Bitcoin maxi

in terms of it's the only crypto that really has

the fundamentals to become, you know, a global adopted

currency of sorts or a store of value or a property or

whatever you want to call it, whatever your perception is on it. However,

I will use altcoins to stack more Bitcoin. So I'll

actively trade altcoins, I'll move into USDT, and

when the time is right, I'll buy more Bitcoin. You know, that's the strategy that

I use to stack Zats in a sense. Altcoins have their

place for me, but it's not because I like them or I

want to own them or anything like that, it's just to grow more Bitcoin. So when I do

have USDT, if Bitcoin's in a good buying region,

And so outside of trading altcoins in

order to stack more sats, are there any other things that

you do in order to stack more sats or is that the primary source?

No, I do some margin trading. I'll leverage trade. But the problem is

timing. So I don't have a lot of time to do a lot of

it these days. So I will play bigger swings. So I'm looking at,

you know, one day to one week charts. I don't do the day-to-day

trading or intraday trading. anymore. So yeah,

I mean, I'm going through this phase nowadays because I've been predominantly a

property investor. Okay. So I've made a lot of money through online

business, mainly through Amazon and Shopify, things like

that around the world. I put a lot of that money into property initially.

And I think because in Australia we're so ingrained into property is

the thing. and I was very outside of the

crypto space. I'm fresh compared to where you've

been, you know. I just got here. I just arrived. Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Great to be here. And, you know, I've just

learned so much just over the past few years. And one

of the things I've come to because I've gone really deep down the

rabbit hole of Bitcoin is I've now started to sell property. to

buy Bitcoin. I'm liquidating. I'm liquidating. I'm basically just

doing the numbers. I'm looking at where property is going to go over the next 20 years and

then comparing it to where even, you know, Bitcoin in the last 12 months

at 120% roughly right over 2024 and just selling

those properties and putting that money into Bitcoin. With your

journey, have you, I guess, veered off from Bitcoin and diversified into

property as well, or you had property and sold property? Where do you sit

I hold both. So I've got property and Bitcoin, but I've not sold one for the

other. I think the smartest way to look at Bitcoin is to view Bitcoin as

property itself. And Michael Saylor says that as well. And if

you start to view Bitcoin as property rather than currency, then I think

the mindset will be right in terms of how long will you hold your

property for. before selling it, if you sell it ever? Is

it an inheritance play? Is it something that you're going to leave for your kids? Is

it something that you want to retire on? Will you sell a portion of it? View

Bitcoin more as a property than a currency. And I think that you'll

have stronger conviction, longer vision. And in the end, you'll

come out on top far better. And of course, you'll come out on top far better than owning

physical property. So yeah, I think if you view Bitcoin as

property, effectively, to me, what you just said was that you're selling property to

buy a better property. and property that's going to yield a

higher return year on year. And ultimately, when you reach

an age of retirement, if you decide to sell that property to fund your retirement,

I think you're going to have a lot more there than what you will if you only

invest in property. Even if you look at the

rental income over 30, 40 years or whatever it is, I

still think you'll yield higher return on Bitcoin as an investment of property than

Yeah. Well, there's one other thing and I was just talking to Dave just before we

started recording about the cyclone that's just hit the

eastern side of Australia. And the funny thing was, Dave, you

know, I'm running around frantically. I've got a restaurant that I also have as

well. So, I'm sort of dealing with that with closures and power outages. I've

then got some other commercial property. So, I'm going to the commercial property. I'm like, okay,

is it going to get flooded and this, that and the other and pulling things off the floor. and

then I was talking to someone I said you know what I'm running around like like

my head cut off doing all this stuff and of course some staff issues

and things like that as well the only thing I haven't had to worry about was

Bitcoin which then gave me another reason why I should buy more Bitcoin Just

ate more of that orange peel, my man. Yeah, just like, you know, like,

no, more Bitcoin is the answer. In my situation, though, I also have a

wife. So, I brought my wife along the journey as well. And she's heavily

into Bitcoin, but probably not as where I'm at. Because I'd say, look, just

sell everything. Just get rid of everything. Dematerialize everything

in the house and put it into Bitcoin. Dave, is

No. Simple answer, no. I mean,

it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Something like this comes up once in

a generation, maybe even two, three, four generations. It's a

revolution that you get once a century at best. So

acting now could not only set yourself up, it could set up

a whole bloodline for a century to come. So

this opportunity won't come back. There won't be

another one like this for another hundred years. And I couldn't even imagine what that

next opportunity could be because Bitcoin is the the

finest type of money that exists, if you

could call it money. So, I don't see how you could really improve on

that. So, whatever the next big thing is in 100 years time,

who knows? But something like this only comes up, you

know, once every couple of generations. And I think that anyone

that's watching should seize it as much as practically possible. And

I think most people get a bit disheartened or off-put because they

think, oh, Bitcoin's worth, you know, 150,000 Australian dollars. I can't afford

a Bitcoin. And it's seriously one of the most common misconceptions that

I've seen over the years. And they don't realize you can buy $10 worth

of Bitcoin. You can buy $100 worth of Bitcoin. And you can invest your

super into Bitcoin now in Australia through self-managed super schemes and

things like that. So a good friend of mine reached out to me, what

was it, nearly two years ago, 18 months ago, and said,

Dave, tell me about your Bitcoins. And he said, I want to-

You've named them, is that it? Is that what he means? Yeah, pretty much. And

he said, I'm thinking about moving some super into it. He said, my super

annuation, it's done like 3% a year. It's just kind of sitting there.

It's losing money. Sometimes it's gaining money. And he pulled half of

his super out and he put it into Bitcoin. And within 18 months, he doubled his money. And

he said, Dave, thanks. Now I can actually afford retirement because he

is almost at that retirement age. And I

just thought, wow, what a huge result from a single decision.

So, you know, if he could do that in 18 months, imagine what people can do in

Well, I've done the numbers, Dave. And just so you know, I actually have

gone down, as I said before, I've gone down the rabbit hole of

Bitcoin. And when I first started, I invested some money into getting

some training. So, I had some idea of what I was getting into and, you know, how

to protect the money and, you know, cold storage, all this sort of stuff. And I

remember a guy telling me at the time, who was a trainee, said, all

of my superannuation is in Bitcoin. And I was like, holy shit, dude. And

at the time, I was thinking, you're crazy. Because even back

then, I was still thinking diversification more, right? Oh,

no, I'm going to keep my super separate. I'm going to have some Bitcoin and I'll have some

properties. And I'm pleased to say that in

the last probably about 18 months ago, I transferred all

of my super over into Bitcoin. I set up a self-managed super

fund, moved it all into Bitcoin. Now, there's other people watching this going, that Matthew

guy is freaking crazy. He's nuts. But

I will say though is I think the last check, I think it

was up about 50%, right? And if I looked at where superannuation

has gone, I actually did do a check. I think it was about 8%. That's

if you've got a good

I mean, not everyone's doing 8%. Some people are

still sitting at a break even over five years on their super fund.

If they weren't doing contributions, they'd be sitting where

Yeah, and I guess the thing you have to think about too is the hurdle rate, right? You've got to

get above the hurdle rate and 8% ain't getting above the hurdle rate

as well. So let me ask you then Dave, have you done the same

Yes. Not everything. So I'm not balls to the wall like your

friend. Only a portion of it. Because as you said before,

diversification is smart. It's kind of like

a you know, when you're growing up, your parents tell you to get a trade, right?

It's one of those things where it's kind of drilled into you. Diversify,

don't put all your eggs in one basket. It's kind of a cautious decision that

everyone should make with their SUBA. But, you know, as time goes

You know, it's just... Well, maybe I've made a mistake that day because I've moved,

I've personally moved all of my wife and my super into Bitcoin.

And the further I go down, I'm thinking about not diversifying, right?

You've got to bring the other person on the journey, right? And you've got to have, you know, you've got to have cash

flow as well and all sorts of other things. And you talked about, you know,

orange peeling, which I think is definitely, I mean, the reason why I even started

the show with Crypto Collective is because I found that

I was talking to a lot of people about Bitcoin. and crypto more

more Bitcoin and I wanted to just continue talking about it and to

more people and one of the things that you've done though in your life

you've taken it to a whole new level not only have you done your education training

your program but also you've created the Australian Crypto Convention

which is probably the ultimate of orange peeling because you're able

to put on a convention bring a whole bunch of people together can

you tell us about that how it started for you because you've come from

plumber to now founder of the Australian Crypto Convention

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Yeah, it's been a pretty big journey. So I went from carpentry into

crypto, basically. I owned a gym as well. So I owned one

of the 24-7 gym franchises. I've

done a few things and I mean,

starting ACC, it was a case of I wanted to go

to a big crypto event and there

wasn't one. And I'd look overseas and I could see that overseas

was doing crypto events all over the place. There

was nothing in Australia. And as you said, I'd started an

education program and I was teaching people by the hundreds, which is amazing,

but it just wasn't big enough. And I thought, well, if we could start a huge event

here in Australia, you know, we could bring thousands of people in. And to be honest, I expected,

you know, a couple thousand people at best to show

up. And this was back in

2022. And our first event, we had nearly 5,000 people turn up on the Gold

Coast. And it just totally blew my mind. And I knew we could do it. I just

wasn't convinced of it myself in a way. So it

was amazing to see 5,000 people come through the door. And that was during the big

NFT boom as well. So a lot of the people that were there were

actually bought in through the NFT side of things rather than the

currency side of things. which I found quite interesting because I don't

get into NFTs, I've never got into NFTs, it's not really my thing. So

I was learning new things as well because we had, you know, over 100 speakers there

and some of them were on stage talking about NFTs and some of the community were

running around talking about NFTs. So I think the biggest thing

to understand in the community or in

your journey is that there's always something to learn and that the industry moves so

fast that Even the self-proclaimed

experts still have something to learn on a daily basis. So there's

new technology coming out of the industry every day,

every week, and education is going to be key. And the other thing that I

found was so many people would message me on

Facebook or Twitter or whatever and say, please help, I've lost money, or

can you teach me how to do this? just

drowning in, you know, I bought some Bitcoin or I bought some altcoins and

now it's going backwards. So I wanted to educate people because

everyone kept calling it a scam. And Bitcoin's a

scam, Bitcoin's a scam. And to be honest, it was driving me insane that

people couldn't really see what Bitcoin was and what crypto was. And

just like TradFi World, there's scams, of course, but there's scams everywhere.

So I just wanted to educate people and show people that it's real and

that it's tangible and that you can talk to

the businesses that are involved in the space and you can meet the people

that are building these cryptocurrencies and these

protocols. and show them that it's a tangible, real

industry, just like any other tech industry, and try and instill

some confidence in people. And I think we've done a really good job of that so far. And,

you know, we work with some of the biggest brands in the world that come to the event. And, you know,

it's really good to see that they get to talk to their customers and

I think it's incredible what you've done, because it's I mean, you

talked about balls to the wall with self-made sleepers. It's balls to the

wall putting on a convention because you're putting a lot of time and money on

the line and you're hoping it's going to be a huge success. And it looks that

the past ones have been massive successes. You've even had, I noticed,

Michael Saylor, who's certainly someone who I look

up to and follow religiously. I'll probably say zealot now. And

I've got to ask you though, Dave, do you have Michael Saylor's phone

number? I do. Have

Michael is an absolute gentleman. He's one of the nicest

guys you'll ever talk to. His conviction in Bitcoin is

unparalleled by anyone. And he loves it

so much that he just wants to spread the word. He just wants to educate

people as much as possible. And he does it every day. You see

him on news programs every single day, podcasts every single day. Like the

guy is running a multi-million dollar business. But

he's still got time to educate people. So,

He's a workaholic. Now, tell me, how did you manage to get Michael Saylor

What was the secret? We just annoyed the hell out of him, basically. It's like

any big-name speaker. You've just got to grind away, keep

contacting them. And just saying, look, we've got a

huge community here in Australia that love the industry and love

crypto and love Bitcoin. And they'd love to hear from people like you. And,

you know, last year we had Charles Hoskinson and Raoul Pal and Rachel

Colin from Binance and a few other big, big names. And you've just got to

really hound them and try to convince them to come and speak at your event. The first

one was the hardest one. And I've been pretty fortunate because over the years, I've built

a lot of contacts in the space. And before I even launched ACC

in 2022, I had a lot of industry partners and industry

friends and industry connections. So it did make it

a bit easier for me than what it could have been for someone else. And

then as we've run the event each year, that contact list grows

and that network grows. And if I don't know someone, then you can generally call

a friend and a friend of a friend knows them. You know,

so it's easier to get in contact with some of these people now than what

it was back in 2022. But yeah, ultimately, it's just having

the right network, having the right people around you and annoying the hell out

Well done on that. I want to ask you as well, because you had someone there

from the political spectrum at your last, I think it was your last

conference, which was Senator Andrew Bragg. Can you tell me more

so from a political perspective? Because we've seen so much now come

out of the USA. But Dave, what is happening in Australia

Not a lot, I don't think. We've got people like Senator Bragg that is

pro-crypto. And I know that The folks from DECA,

once known as Blockchain Australia, they're working hard with government to

try and have some pro-crypto regulation and at

the very least have the conversation about it. And Amy Rose, who's

the CEO over there, a good friend of mine, she's doing a great job. So I

think that we are seeing some progress in

that sense, but it's going to take time. It's going to take years in my

opinion. And without people like Amy Rose and organizations

like DECA, those conversations just won't happen. At

the moment, we're sort of stalled. We're behind the US. I'm hoping that the US

will influence some Australian politics around cryptocurrency. It's

already influencing UK and other parts of the world. So I'm hoping

that Australia will follow suit. I mean, what's the saying? When

America catches a cold, Australia sneezes or some shit like that. I

think that whatever the US does, Australia will follow suit eventually, but

it's going to take some time. But at the moment, there's really not a lot happening

It's really disappointing, Dave, because you see what's going on around the world.

And it's not just the USA, it's places like El Salvador and

Bhutan, who's, you know, they're mining their own Bitcoin. I'm sitting here

thinking, where is the leadership in Australia to sort of look forward thinking?

And it's great that you actually had Senator Andrew Bragg come to

one of the conventions and speak, I guess. Is there any other political thought

leaders or coming in any, I know you've got another convention coming up

22nd to the 23rd of November in 2025. That's in

We're hoping to have some speakers from ASIC come through. And for

me, a big reason for that is there's a lot of grey area

to operate in for businesses in Australia. So

especially DCEs, exchanges. So I

think that people like Andrew Bragg lobbying for pro-crypto regulation

will help influence ASIC's decisions around a certain

number of topics. So we are hoping to have some ASIC representation

this year, which I think will really help a lot of the businesses that come to our

event. Because we've got almost 100 exhibitors, which are businesses, Australian

businesses that come to the event. But we've got, you know, last year nearly 10,000 people

came through the door. Say, you know, a third of them or 20% of

them at least own some kind of a business. And most

people that own a business that are also in the crypto, they're looking at other entry

pathways into crypto businesses. But the problem we

face in Australia is that the tax laws and the ASIC

laws are so strict, people are too scared to

operate. So they're setting up overseas instead. You know, so much Australian talent

is going to Singapore or Seychelles or

Caymans and, you know, because there's no way for them to

operate a business here in Australia and the tax laws are so strict. And

high. Tax implications are so high. Yeah. So, I

think that if we can get a lot of these decision makers in a room together

and just nut it out, so to speak, you know, we hopefully will

Yeah, one of the things I think, which is great, Dave. Ultimately,

I think Bitcoin is freedom money. I love the fact that it's

decentralized. I think coming out of the pandemic

of recent years really opened my eyes to being,

I guess, not under the thumb of the government. from

every level. And I wonder if there's

a sense in Australia, from a government point of view, is that that's

perhaps why they don't want to go down this route. And

look, maybe it might take a leadership change in Australia, a prime

minister change from the top down. We've got an election coming up now

in May this year. I know Andrew Bragg sits on the conservative side

of that under Peter Dutton. So look, maybe we'll see some

different policies come out down that way. I want to just switch into

banking, Dave. I heard recently that it was Peter Dunworth, which

I'm sure you know, he was saying that he heard of

two of the major banks in Australia already putting together frameworks to custody

I can't say too much because... It's top secret. A

little bit. Yeah. So, we work with banking partners

through the event as well. So, we talk to all the big

four banks. Okay. The banks come and they speak at our event. We've

got a lot of, I suppose, mutual industry connections and

things like that. So, I do know a little bit about it and I do know that it's

actually been happening for a number of years, probably three or four

years now. The top four at the very least,

have been exploring cryptocurrency and blockchain technology

and building out those custody frameworks. So I

can confirm it is happening. The problem with the banking is that they get

10 steps forward, 12 steps back. So the staff attrition

rate doesn't really, no one sticks around long

Well, I think they get forward-thinking staff member that

starts to implement a strategy around blockchain and crypto, and

then that forward-thinking staff member will disappear or go somewhere else,

and then they're back at square one again, and they're starting over. So that

seems to be what happens a lot, from what I can tell. So,

you know, you've got entire teams that have been built in

some of these banks to, I suppose, grow or learn more

about the blockchain technology and how they can implement that in the banks. And then those

teams are basically dispersed into different areas. And then the

teams are rebuilt again. And it just seems to be the same cycle over and over

again. So it will happen eventually. There's no doubt about it. and

when it does i don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing i don't know if you actually hold your

own coins or if the bank will hold it and and just

give you an iou of it you know i don't know how it's going to work just

yet but i know that they're actively building something like that interesting that you

said that the major banks are coming to your convention is there any backlash because

trying to and you would know this and from I guess many

of your clients I've seen this in my little community people I talk

to they get ready you know they might say they've they've taken all

their super out they've put it into a bank it might be two

or three hundred thousand dollars they're now prepared to put this into an exchange to

buy bitcoin they then do their first transfer it's rejected

right it's blocked they're going to spend days and days trying to get

through all this rigmarole about why they were allowed to transfer money

in Have you seen anything in

that space that could give people some sense of relief

that maybe the tide's turning? Or is there something inside

that you know, like a bank that you know that, hey, this is the bank to deal with?

It's incredibly frustrating. Everyone is suffering the

same problem. Everyone's in the same boat when it comes to

onboarding money into crypto. I've got my own

theories around why, but you know, they're theories, they're

not fact. But I think that with more pro-crypto regulation,

we're going to have more pro-crypto banking. The

fact that we've got banks building out frameworks for

this already is a good thing in terms of how much

money you'll be allowed to onboard. I

don't like the term allowed because it's your money. You should be allowed to spend it

on whatever you feel like. It's one of those things that really

irks me. That and debanking as

well. Debanking is a huge problem in the crypto space, and I

don't think that's going to go anywhere anytime soon either. But ultimately, the fact

that banks are building out the frameworks, then eventually the

problem will go away. It just means it depends on how

will it look later. So, okay, sure, you can now put $100,000 per day into

crypto, but we're actually going to hold your crypto and your assets and you

can't move it to cold storage. Is that how they're going to do it? Are they going to

make interest off it? Who knows what that looks like just yet. But I don't think

Is there any way that you know getting money into these exchanges? What

There's really no way around it, man, unfortunately. Some banks are better than

others, I think. And it changes frequently as well. I think Bank

of Melbourne maybe was one that people didn't have problems with. The

Big Four, everyone's had problems with the Big Four. Maybe Greater, Greater

Building Society. I think they were a good one at some point,

but it changes so frequently that it's kind

of hard to keep up with. And outside of a peer-to-peer transaction,

there's really not much else you can do. I mean, the only way

to do it in Australia is to purchase through a bank. through

your card or through a bank transfer. There's offshore exchanges that

people can use. So some people will use their credit cards or

their Visa card or debit cards to buy crypto on offshore exchanges,

which I don't think have the same restrictions. But you're then running

the risk of putting your money into a foreign entity. And if

something does go wrong, there's really no repercussions or

any way to get your money back. So you just got to be careful and weigh the risks.

Yeah. Dave, you've got, obviously, you've been in the industry for

such a long time. There's people that I see around me, though, who

have also accumulated a lot of wealth through crypto, who

are leaving Australia for mainly tax reasons. And I

guess they don't like the restrictions that they have in Australia. Is, I want to say, having a

plan B or having a second passport or moving outside into

Yeah, definitely. I think Australia needs to catch

up with some other regions of the world in terms of taxing

crypto. The tax rates are just stupidly high.

Yeah, I mean, it's something that, again, it

really burrs me up, to be honest. But yeah, I think

you're right. A lot of people are moving to Dubai or Malta

or, you know, Seychelles even. A lot of other countries that don't have

as high tax, or in some cases any tax, like to buy on cryptocurrencies. Trump's

saying that he's going to make the US a

tax haven for cryptocurrencies. And if that's something that

actually comes into fruition, then maybe Australia will, to a degree, follow

suit. Even Singapore, a lot of people are going to Singapore. I

think Singapore's only doing about 10% tax. So Australia's losing,

and will lose, a lot of revenue, tax revenue over the next 10 years

because they're scaring people out of the country. So while

they're cashing in now, it'll sort of shoot themselves in

So, what's the reason then you've stayed in Australia? What's

Work is here. Everyone's here. So, yeah,

I mean, there's really no other reason apart from that. If

I didn't have what I have here in terms of people around

Lifestyle and families kept you here. I've got children, you know,

they go to local schools, you know, there's a lot of things that you think about. Yeah,

Not really. My wife's family is from Malta, so that's

come up a couple of times. Dubai, just anywhere really. I'm

not really too fussed. Not fussed. But again, kids at school,

our parents and main laws and all the families here,

so it'd have to be something pretty drastic to make me want to move overseas at

Yeah. Talking about family and you've

got children, do you think about legacy

for your family through Bitcoin and what does that look like, like

I do. I mean, I look at Bitcoin as a way for everyone

to create sustainable and generational wealth. And

as I said at the start of the call, this opportunity only comes

up once every 100 years if you're lucky. So I look at

it as not just a superannuation for myself or a way

to retire comfortably or anything like that. I look at it as what can

this be in 30, 40, 50 years? How much can it

grow and how much can it benefit my kids and their kids? I

look at it in a much bigger picture than I think most people do. And

for me, it's kind of like a big part of the reason I do the convention and

a big part of the reason I speak at events and I suppose spread

the word of Bitcoin. It's almost like a... I'm going

to get in trouble for this. It's almost like a Jehovah's Witness knocking on your door, right?

So they knock on the door because they believe in something. Whether

you believe in it or not, it's irrelevant. They knock on your door because they believe that

they've got this divine power that everyone can benefit from.

And for me, that's Bitcoin. Bitcoin is that religion. Bitcoin is that divine

power that I want everyone to win. I want everyone to get

the benefits from. Because like you said before, COVID brought to

light a lot of things for a lot of people. Anyone that knows me

and anyone that's watched me on a podcast in the past probably knows that I love a good conspiracy

theory. And the government has far too much control

over us as a people. And, you know, as you said before, Bitcoin

is a freedom money. It gives us an ability to claw back some

of that freedom and some of that control ourselves. So it doesn't happen

with 10 people or 100 people or 10,000 people. It happens when

the entire country comes together and uses Bitcoin. So

for me, it's bigger than just myself. It's bigger than

you and me. It's a movement that deserves the

Yeah, that's so well put. I completely agree with you. I'm now thinking

very much like you, thinking in 40 years

time, you know, when my children are basically

almost 50, what's the world going to look like? And I think Bitcoin

is the answer, you know, that encompasses that and legacy. And I'm

also talking to people about putting something out there that's more than them. So, you

know, people talk about leaving something for a charity, for

example. And I said, well, why don't you sanction some Bitcoin for

the future for that charity when you pass away and you're forgotten

about and you know, XYZ charity now has Bitcoin

that you've left them for in perpetuity, which I think is really, really powerful

when you start thinking outside of your own, even your own self and

in giving back to others. Dave, you've obviously doing a

lot of giving back in the community with the Australian Crypto Convention. What's

in store for 2025? Can you give us some insight to

Well, I mean, for this year, our focus is just refining

and making the event as sophisticated as possible. We've grown the

event year on year by about 50% each year, which is

wonderful. I'd love to see over 10,000 people come

through the doors this year. That's a personal goal for me. But

in terms of what we're focusing on, it's it's about refining

and sophisticating. So we want high quality speakers, high quality

educators up on stage so that if we can get even 5,000 people

that are new to the industry that are there to learn, they're going to be learning from the very

best. And that's the goal for me. Of course, we've got the parties

and we've got all the fun stuff and we've got the crypto bros and actually

you know it's a good you got the xrp army there oh they're everywhere man

oh you gotta watch out for them they're deadly last

year i think we had about 10 side events where companies like

coinbase or binance that they'll put on a party around the

event on sort of the Thursday or the Friday or even the Saturday night.

We had the official after party on the Sunday last year with Swift

X. We hired a huge super yacht, 800 people. We did a big drone show

and all sorts of really cool stuff. So if you're thinking about coming, it's

in Sydney again. We do have a super yacht again. It's the biggest super yacht

It's a lot of fun, man. And I mean, we've got fun activations at

the event, bull rides, and we had a dive tank last year.

Prizes is a big thing. So the big dive tank last year,

I think there was about 120 grand in prizes in the bottom of it. People would dive down

There was a lot of diamond rings and all sorts of stuff.

So that was run by a company called YX out of Sydney. And

they put on a really cool activation with the dive tank last year. So

there's heaps of prizes. This year, we're already talking with a

lot of companies. I think we're up to about $2.5 million in prizes to

go out this year, which is our biggest pool yet so far. And we're going to continue to

So there's something for everyone, man. There's a lot. It sounds like

it's going to be absolutely amazing. I just want to say to people who are watching this now, if you go

back to YouTube and look at the 2024 convention, you get an

idea of how successful that was. I mean, you

are not playing small here. It is incredible. And

it's so professionally put together. Now, I've got something for you,

Dave. And this is a bit of a conspiracy for you. See, you're one

step away from Michael Saylor. Michael Saylor is one step

away from President Trump. Okay. Speak

to Michael. He speaks to President Trump. He pushes the price up.

He puts out an announcement. The price goes through the roof. There's an all-time high.

Okay. All-time high brings more people to the

I like your stuff. Thanks, Dave. Really appreciate you coming on

board. I think we'll leave it there on the on the conspiracy to

build the Australian crypto convention and a new all

time high. All thanks to Dave. Dave Haslock. All

right, mate. Thank you so much for joining me. No worries. Thanks, man. Hey, one

question for you. November 2025. What's the price of Bitcoin going to be? Oh,

November 2025. It has to be an all time high because we're going to

make that happen. So I'm going to say it's going to be 150. Me too,

Okay, why are you going so low? Yeah, 170, let's

go. 150 to 170, that's my range that I'm aiming

for for November. Wouldn't it be awesome? And also, hopefully,

we have no tax on crypto. There we go. Not that I'm selling.

Me too. I'm not selling. Never sell your Bitcoin. Never sell your Bitcoin.

There you go. You've heard it from the man himself, Dave Hasselhoff. Thanks

so much, Dave. Take it easy. Cheers. Thanks for tuning in to Crypto Collective.

If you've enjoyed this episode, the best way to show your support is to leave

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make sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel so you don't miss an episode. You

can also find more of me at I'm Matthew