1 00:00:03,570 --> 00:00:06,210 Mia Hobbs: Hello and welcome back to series two of the Why I 2 00:00:06,210 --> 00:00:09,900 Knit podcast. My name is Dr Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical 3 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:12,840 psychologist who's passionate about knitting and its benefits 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,530 for our mental wellbeing. Each episode I interview a different 5 00:00:16,530 --> 00:00:19,590 knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their mental 6 00:00:19,590 --> 00:00:23,040 health. This week on the podcast, I'm joined by Clare 7 00:00:23,070 --> 00:00:27,510 Mountain-Manipon, also known as Sister Mountain. Clare is a 8 00:00:27,510 --> 00:00:30,690 pattern designer who has developed her own Sweater Design 9 00:00:30,690 --> 00:00:34,380 School where she is a mentor for other people embarking on their 10 00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:36,540 journey as knitting pattern designers. 11 00:00:41,670 --> 00:00:43,710 Hi Clare, welcome to the podcast. 12 00:00:43,860 --> 00:00:46,020 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Hello! Thank you for having me. 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,820 Mia Hobbs: You're very welcome. It's really nice to see you 14 00:00:47,820 --> 00:00:50,850 again! Because we met... I was trying to think how many years 15 00:00:50,850 --> 00:00:52,770 ago we met at the Loop Knit Night. 16 00:00:53,130 --> 00:00:55,980 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I would say maybe four... five years 17 00:00:55,980 --> 00:00:57,720 ago. It was a while ago, I think! 18 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,180 Mia Hobbs: It was a while ago. Yeah, I think my kids were quite 19 00:01:00,180 --> 00:01:00,630 small. 20 00:01:01,110 --> 00:01:03,510 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I know. And now I have my own kid! 21 00:01:03,510 --> 00:01:03,540 [Laughs] 22 00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:06,120 Mia Hobbs: Yes! How many months is he? 23 00:01:06,570 --> 00:01:08,580 Clare Mountain-Manipon: He is nearly nine months. He'll be 24 00:01:08,580 --> 00:01:12,000 nine months next week. He's growing at an alarming rate. 25 00:01:13,230 --> 00:01:15,780 Mia Hobbs: And how has he affected your ability to do any 26 00:01:15,780 --> 00:01:16,290 knitting? 27 00:01:17,130 --> 00:01:19,920 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I would say it is significantly reduced, 28 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:26,850 sadly. But obviously worth it. I would say I'm lucky if I get 29 00:01:27,090 --> 00:01:31,860 half an hour in the evening, if that. There are some days when I 30 00:01:31,860 --> 00:01:37,500 am so absolutely exhausted and all I have energy for is just to 31 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:41,490 flop on the couch. But I do try, because I know how much it makes 32 00:01:41,490 --> 00:01:45,090 me feel good when I knit. I do try to make time for it every 33 00:01:45,090 --> 00:01:45,480 evening. 34 00:01:45,690 --> 00:01:49,200 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, okay. So I usually start with asking where 35 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,110 your story with knitting began. So where did yours start, Clare? 36 00:01:53,310 --> 00:01:55,260 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Well, I learnt to knit when I was a 37 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:59,160 really young child. It was kind of that typical story. My 38 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,910 grandma knits. She taught me to knit. I knit little teddy bear 39 00:02:02,910 --> 00:02:06,930 scarves and things like that. And then there was one Christmas 40 00:02:06,930 --> 00:02:10,860 or New Year that my family was going on a hiking holiday, and I 41 00:02:10,860 --> 00:02:13,260 was at that age where I was like, "I don't want to go on a 42 00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:15,900 hiking holiday. I'm going to go stay with my grandma." I was in 43 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:19,530 my early teens, probably like 13 at the time or something. And I 44 00:02:19,530 --> 00:02:25,320 went to stay with her for about a week, and she knit a jumper 45 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,240 with me. So I chose the yarn, and it was like a chunky yarn, 46 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,560 and it had intarsia on the front. Now, I had absolutely no 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,380 idea how to do intarsia. I'm one of those knitters (I've always 48 00:02:37,380 --> 00:02:39,780 been that type, I think) where I'm just like, "Yeah, I'll just 49 00:02:39,780 --> 00:02:43,410 figure it out." I've never been afraid of skill levels. I 50 00:02:43,410 --> 00:02:47,160 decided to knit this intarsia jumper. It was absolutely not 51 00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:50,340 intarsia, in that I did it completely incorrectly. I think 52 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:54,300 I kind of did standard colourwork in a very strange 53 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:57,330 fashion on there. Not even like traditional. I think I was 54 00:02:57,330 --> 00:03:00,180 wrapping it behind every stitch. I don't even know. But either 55 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:04,050 way, I ended up with a jumper, and then the love affair just 56 00:03:04,110 --> 00:03:06,960 blossomed and I was knitting every day all throughout my 57 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,220 teens. I ended up studying fashion knitwear design at 58 00:03:11,220 --> 00:03:13,470 university and went to work in the professional knitwear 59 00:03:13,470 --> 00:03:17,040 industry. And now I work entirely in the handknitting 60 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,450 industry, as an indie designer but also as a knitting pattern 61 00:03:21,450 --> 00:03:24,540 design teacher. So it's been a long journey. 62 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,900 Mia Hobbs: Yeah! And you kept going basically from when you 63 00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:29,820 were 13 and you made that amazing jumper? 64 00:03:30,150 --> 00:03:33,690 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I just 65 00:03:33,690 --> 00:03:37,470 couldn't stop once I started. So I think was about 13 when I 66 00:03:37,470 --> 00:03:41,850 knitted that jumper, and I remember even in my English 67 00:03:41,850 --> 00:03:45,930 class, we had to do a sort of presentation about any topic of 68 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:48,870 our choice, and I decided I was going to do a presentation about 69 00:03:48,870 --> 00:03:54,360 knitting to all of my class members. I'm not sure entirely 70 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,120 whether they enjoyed it or not, but yeah, I just loved knitting. 71 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,750 And I've knitted almost daily ever since. 72 00:04:02,430 --> 00:04:04,650 Mia Hobbs: Can you remember what your classmates thought of you? 73 00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:07,890 Because I was always the only person knitting, for example, 74 00:04:08,460 --> 00:04:13,080 during my doctorate, but by that point I was 25 and over so I was 75 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,180 kind of okay with it. But I don't know whether I would have 76 00:04:15,210 --> 00:04:18,060 had the confidence at the age of 15, for example. 77 00:04:18,870 --> 00:04:22,470 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think I was a bit of a strange kid 78 00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:27,150 anyway. I didn't have a great time in school. I was bullied 79 00:04:27,150 --> 00:04:31,380 quite badly. And so I think it got to the point where I was 80 00:04:31,380 --> 00:04:35,460 just a bit like, "Meh". So I think there were some people who 81 00:04:35,460 --> 00:04:37,620 were interested in it, and some people who just thought it was a 82 00:04:37,620 --> 00:04:44,160 little bit lame, maybe, or a bit stupid. But I don't know... I 83 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,570 didn't get any more trouble than I normally would from it, to be 84 00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:52,710 honest. And I think, as well, there were some people who I was 85 00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:54,660 friends with who were very creative, and I think they quite 86 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:57,180 liked the idea that I made my own clothes, even if it was 87 00:04:57,180 --> 00:05:00,090 maybe through a format... I think perhaps if I was like 88 00:05:00,090 --> 00:05:02,910 really into sewing, maybe it would have been a bit cooler in 89 00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:05,790 their eyes. I think just generally, the fact that I could 90 00:05:06,330 --> 00:05:08,880 make my own clothes was considered quite interesting to 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,470 those people who were creative. 92 00:05:12,210 --> 00:05:14,970 Mia Hobbs: And I'm interested in the idea that the first thing 93 00:05:14,970 --> 00:05:18,690 you made was an intarsia jumper, which is quite high-level! 94 00:05:19,350 --> 00:05:26,580 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah! I quite like this for other 95 00:05:26,580 --> 00:05:32,730 knitters as well. It depends on your personality type, but when 96 00:05:32,730 --> 00:05:34,860 you're learning to knit it can be very tempting to just do a 97 00:05:34,860 --> 00:05:39,840 very plain scarf, because it's just simple. You don't have to 98 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:42,870 deal with any shaping. But people often get bored because 99 00:05:42,870 --> 00:05:45,600 they don't necessarily love how it looks. It's quite a long 100 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,400 project. I suppose a jumper is as well, but I really loved how 101 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,040 it looked. So that was kind of the motivation for me, that I 102 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,500 really wanted to wear it and therefore I was going to do 103 00:05:55,500 --> 00:06:00,450 whatever it took to do the project, not necessarily 104 00:06:00,990 --> 00:06:03,690 expertly! [Laughs] It was definitely a bit rough around 105 00:06:03,690 --> 00:06:07,620 the edges, but I was so proud of it and I wore it a ton. I think 106 00:06:07,650 --> 00:06:10,560 that can be a really lovely way to approach knitting, in a way, 107 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:16,110 choosing what you want to wear and then learning the skills 108 00:06:16,110 --> 00:06:17,520 involved to do it. 109 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,860 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I think your motivation will be greater, 110 00:06:19,860 --> 00:06:20,430 won't it? 111 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,150 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, exactly. 112 00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:22,740 Mia Hobbs: I think a lot of people give up because they 113 00:06:22,740 --> 00:06:25,470 start knitting a scarf, and actually a scarf is just too 114 00:06:25,470 --> 00:06:29,040 big. I would struggle to knit a whole scarf because I'd lose my 115 00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:33,540 mojo halfway through. It'd have to be a really interesting scarf 116 00:06:33,540 --> 00:06:33,960 for me. 117 00:06:34,050 --> 00:06:35,970 Clare Mountain-Manipon: There's no differing instructions to 118 00:06:35,970 --> 00:06:38,880 keep you going. It's all just "Do the same thing for a..." 119 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,300 Mia Hobbs: Or a milestone, like a sleeve separation or 120 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:42,540 something. 121 00:06:42,540 --> 00:06:45,330 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, exactly. I kind of need those 122 00:06:45,330 --> 00:06:49,350 milestones to keep me, you know, "Just one more row, just one 123 00:06:49,350 --> 00:06:50,010 more row." 124 00:06:50,310 --> 00:06:53,070 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, and I think sometimes, I've certainly heard 125 00:06:53,070 --> 00:06:55,290 about and I think this is true for me, that people at the 126 00:06:55,290 --> 00:06:59,190 beginning, because they didn't quite know the scale of the 127 00:06:59,190 --> 00:07:01,740 challenge they were taking on, just kind of thought, "Oh, yeah, 128 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:03,960 I'll do that" where they needed something without a pattern. 129 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,000 That's something I've heard about. Or knitted quite a 130 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,830 challenging pattern because they didn't quite realise how 131 00:07:07,830 --> 00:07:11,130 challenging it was, and maybe now as a more experienced 132 00:07:11,130 --> 00:07:14,100 knitter wouldn't dive in, in the same way, which in a way is a 133 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:14,430 shame! 134 00:07:15,990 --> 00:07:20,400 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I completely agree. I think you're 135 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,070 totally right. Often as a beginner, you don't necessarily 136 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:27,660 realise quite how complex things can be. I was doing loads of 137 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:32,550 cables and fully charted lace stuff, just because I didn't 138 00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:36,210 realise that it was considered complex. And as well, this was 139 00:07:36,210 --> 00:07:41,070 before Ravelry, even. I think Ravelry was like 2007. This was, 140 00:07:41,070 --> 00:07:44,670 you know, years before Ravelry, so I'd had nothing to compare it 141 00:07:44,670 --> 00:07:47,460 to. I didn't know any knitters other than my Nana who was a 142 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:50,280 great knitter and she didn't ever discourage me from doing 143 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:51,000 things that were complex. 144 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,160 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, she must have done a good job by saying, 145 00:07:53,460 --> 00:07:55,350 "Yeah, go for it with your intarsia sweater!" 146 00:07:56,730 --> 00:07:58,350 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it's so funny to think about 147 00:07:58,350 --> 00:08:02,280 really, in hindsight. She never made me feel like it wasn't 148 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,930 doable. I just sat on the couch with her and knitted! [Laughs]. 149 00:08:06,930 --> 00:08:09,330 It was lovely. Yeah, very nice. 150 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,040 Mia Hobbs: So that was a good choice to miss that hiking 151 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,210 holiday, as it turns out! 152 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:15,300 Clare Mountain-Manipon: It totally was! I mean, even to 153 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:20,190 this day, I think I'd rather sit in a cosy pub and knit than go 154 00:08:20,190 --> 00:08:21,300 on a hike. Is that bad? 155 00:08:21,630 --> 00:08:29,130 Mia Hobbs: No. It's fine. You found your zone. [Laughs] I 156 00:08:29,130 --> 00:08:33,270 suppose I'm interested in why you knit now and how you feel it 157 00:08:33,300 --> 00:08:34,800 benefits your mental well being. 158 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,010 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Okay, so I think the primary reason why I 159 00:08:38,010 --> 00:08:48,690 knit in general is I love clothes. I love having an idea 160 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:52,650 of what I want to wear and coming up with an outfit. And 161 00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:59,340 then also, I'm very particular about what I like to wear, hence 162 00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:01,350 why I like making my own clothes because you have so much more 163 00:09:01,350 --> 00:09:07,140 control over the materials that you use, the colours, the shape, 164 00:09:07,170 --> 00:09:11,130 all of that. And I think design obviously plays into that 165 00:09:11,130 --> 00:09:14,520 because I do get so much control over it. But I get a lot of joy, 166 00:09:14,550 --> 00:09:18,030 I suppose, from expressing myself through clothes. And even 167 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:22,110 looking back to when I was in my late teens, I remember that when 168 00:09:22,110 --> 00:09:25,170 I finished school I moved on to college, and like I said, school 169 00:09:25,170 --> 00:09:27,840 was not a great chapter for me. But moving on to college, I felt 170 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,100 like it was a fresh start, and I remember when I went there I 171 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:37,290 felt like I could dress however I wanted because I didn't feel 172 00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:40,950 like I had to fit into this idea of what the people at school 173 00:09:40,950 --> 00:09:43,560 thought about me. I could just be this new person. I could 174 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:48,930 dress the way I wanted. And even to this day, it feels good to 175 00:09:48,930 --> 00:09:53,100 express myself through clothing. I definitely am a product 176 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:57,570 knitter as well as a process knitter. Even simply the process 177 00:09:57,570 --> 00:10:03,420 of knitting is just so satisfying to me. I think I can 178 00:10:03,420 --> 00:10:06,810 be a bit of an anxious person and worry about, like, "Am I 179 00:10:06,810 --> 00:10:10,950 doing enough?", feeling like I've got this endless to do list 180 00:10:10,950 --> 00:10:15,060 and feeling like I never quite feel finished or never feel like 181 00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:20,310 I'm making progress. And with knitting, you can knit and you 182 00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:23,400 can see your progress. You're spending time and you get 183 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:29,730 something out of it. Even with long projects, you still see 184 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:31,770 that you're making progress all the time, and for me that's just 185 00:10:31,770 --> 00:10:34,590 a lovely feeling. It's reassuring, in a way. 186 00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:41,730 Mia Hobbs: So in a way, it isn't so much about the action. It's 187 00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:46,440 about the feeling of, like, "This is a tangible, visible way 188 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:50,460 of seeing what I did today, or in the last half an hour." 189 00:10:50,790 --> 00:10:53,730 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. I love 190 00:10:53,730 --> 00:10:57,510 the process of knitting anyway. I really enjoy making things. 191 00:10:57,510 --> 00:11:00,780 There's something lovely about having an idea, grabbing the 192 00:11:00,780 --> 00:11:05,790 yarn, and then being able to knit it and create something 193 00:11:05,790 --> 00:11:12,030 beautiful. I have always been into things that are kind of 194 00:11:12,180 --> 00:11:19,290 repetitive, meditative. I don't mind, for example, folding 195 00:11:19,290 --> 00:11:21,990 clothes, just having a pile of stuff and just sitting there and 196 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:25,020 folding it. I kind of like the rhythm of something repetitive 197 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:29,670 like that. And I think knitting plays into that. I really am 198 00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:32,340 quite happy to do these repetitive tasks. I find it 199 00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:36,900 quite calming. But no, I think for me the primary joy that I 200 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:39,510 get out of it, and the primary way that it helps, perhaps, with 201 00:11:39,510 --> 00:11:44,160 my mental health, is just seeing this tangible example of what 202 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,060 I'm able to do. 203 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,110 Mia Hobbs: So the sense of achievement of having made it 204 00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:52,320 yourself, and also a demonstration of "This happened 205 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,280 today". And it sounds like the self-expression thing is also 206 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,520 important with the finished object, that it's wearable. 207 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,180 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, that's exactly it. I've tried 208 00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:08,070 knitting other things. I like making things maybe for the 209 00:12:08,070 --> 00:12:13,320 home, or I've tried doing socks, and I like the practical side of 210 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,680 it, but I must admit I'm really drawn to sweaters and jumpers 211 00:12:17,070 --> 00:12:25,860 because I feel like it's a greater canvas to fit my taste 212 00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:28,830 and my personal style into. 213 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:34,470 Mia Hobbs: Is that different to it being art, like a wearable 214 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:39,210 art? Is it more about you showing "This is who I am" or is 215 00:12:39,210 --> 00:12:40,320 it both, maybe? 216 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:43,500 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think my pieces never feel like 217 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:48,180 wearable art to me, because I suppose I tend to err on the 218 00:12:48,180 --> 00:12:52,620 side of practicality as well as something being beautiful. And 219 00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:57,570 sometimes it doesn't feel practical to me if it's too 220 00:12:57,870 --> 00:13:02,970 elaborate, or a lot of design details in there. It can be very 221 00:13:02,970 --> 00:13:05,370 beautiful, but it doesn't feel like me because it doesn't feel 222 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:14,100 functional in my daily life. I'm trying to think of how I'd 223 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:17,820 describe it... I am very much into that kind of functional, 224 00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:24,840 beautiful knit, and so I suppose it is more just who I am. It's 225 00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:30,660 about who I am. And so it may even look quite mundane to 226 00:13:30,660 --> 00:13:33,270 someone else, but for me it's something that I've put a lot of 227 00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:37,470 intention into, and thought about how do I want it to look 228 00:13:37,470 --> 00:13:42,330 on me, how do I want it to feel, how comfortable do I want it to 229 00:13:42,330 --> 00:13:46,170 be. I'm not someone who enjoys wearing form-fitting stuff. I 230 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:48,930 don't like feeling restricted when I'm moving around. I like 231 00:13:48,930 --> 00:13:54,480 kind of oversized billowy stuff. And so that's the kind of thing 232 00:13:54,510 --> 00:13:56,970 that I would knit because it feels like me. 233 00:13:57,210 --> 00:13:59,760 Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So it is very much self-expression. 234 00:14:00,030 --> 00:14:00,510 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah. 235 00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:04,410 Mia Hobbs: And you must get an even enhanced layer of that, 236 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,990 being a designer, and not just a knitter where you're looking at 237 00:14:06,990 --> 00:14:10,500 other people's patterns and that's the pool you get to 238 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:11,460 choose from to knit. 239 00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:13,620 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it's just wonderful because 240 00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:19,440 you're thinking about every element of the design. And I 241 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,680 must admit, I do tend to design with myself in mind. There are 242 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,670 occasions where I'll design to a brief, like for a publication, 243 00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:29,490 and I'll design something that I wouldn't necessarily wear but I 244 00:14:29,490 --> 00:14:34,230 do like. A lot of the time I am thinking about what I want for 245 00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:40,320 my own wardrobe. It's just lovely having control over all 246 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,290 of those different elements, your likes and dislikes, where 247 00:14:43,290 --> 00:14:47,010 you want it to fit. Even selfishly, I'm thinking about my 248 00:14:47,010 --> 00:14:52,080 wardrobe, you know. Yeah, it's so lovely to be able to 249 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:57,240 essentially dream up whatever I want/desire and be able to turn 250 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,140 it into a reality. 251 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,870 Mia Hobbs: And how much of it is to do with things like the 252 00:15:00,870 --> 00:15:04,260 materials or, for example, things like colour or texture? 253 00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:06,810 Does that fit into that process? 254 00:15:06,810 --> 00:15:11,040 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yes. So in terms of texture and colour, 255 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,550 yes, they totally play a part, but I tend to find that most of 256 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:18,030 the time my primary inspiration tends to come from silhouette, 257 00:15:18,090 --> 00:15:21,480 the shape of the garment, but also design detail. So for 258 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,680 example, if you've ever bought something ready-to-wear, and you 259 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,010 see something that maybe not everyone would see when you're 260 00:15:29,010 --> 00:15:34,170 wearing it, like a beautiful lining or a cuff or trim detail, 261 00:15:34,530 --> 00:15:37,530 those are the things that really inspire me when I'm designing. 262 00:15:37,890 --> 00:15:42,390 I'm just looking at my design board now and I can see I've got 263 00:15:42,390 --> 00:15:46,290 very simple silhouettes for most of them, but every single one of 264 00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:50,610 them have got maybe two to three smaller design details in there 265 00:15:50,610 --> 00:15:56,970 that are very unexpected and just feel elegant and 266 00:15:58,260 --> 00:16:01,710 intentional. Sometimes I think as a designer it can be very 267 00:16:01,710 --> 00:16:06,150 tempting to maybe select an all-over stitch and then pop it 268 00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:11,130 on a classic silhouette, and then maybe use a 2x2 rib trim, 269 00:16:11,130 --> 00:16:14,730 because you want to use that particular stitch, maybe you 270 00:16:14,730 --> 00:16:18,240 have a yarn in mind. For me, I like to approach it slightly 271 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,900 differently and think about every single little element. And 272 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:27,060 sometimes that means that I don't use a very busy stitch on 273 00:16:27,060 --> 00:16:30,000 the garment, because I want to focus on other things. Or if I 274 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,610 were to use a busy stitch, then I would choose a more simple 275 00:16:32,610 --> 00:16:38,310 option. But I do find that it is the shape of the garment and the 276 00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:41,880 design details that really get me excited, and then the texture 277 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,880 and the colour tend to come in afterwards, and I think about 278 00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:49,470 "Okay, what texture of yarn or colour of yarn can I use that 279 00:16:49,470 --> 00:16:52,530 will bring out the beauty in these primary elements that I 280 00:16:52,530 --> 00:16:53,610 want to emphasise?" 281 00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:57,570 Mia Hobbs: Okay, so the joy is in the details and the little 282 00:16:57,570 --> 00:17:03,270 surprises, and that's the bit that makes your heart sing. 283 00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:05,940 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah. Honestly, I could talk about it 284 00:17:05,940 --> 00:17:12,330 for ages. I teach a pullover design course and I often talk 285 00:17:12,330 --> 00:17:14,880 about this with my students. And I think it really plays back 286 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,900 into the work that I did as a swatch designer when I worked in 287 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,200 the commercial knitwear industry. We would be coming up 288 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,350 with new designs every day, and knitting up little prototypes of 289 00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:28,590 them, and my boss would always talk about how... you know, 290 00:17:28,590 --> 00:17:32,790 choose maybe two to three design elements and focus on those, on 291 00:17:32,790 --> 00:17:35,520 making them really beautiful, rather than trying to chuck 292 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:41,010 everything at this one design. And I think the way that I've 293 00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:45,240 always interpreted that is it might even be that you put a 294 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,030 functional element in your design, such as shaping, that 295 00:17:48,030 --> 00:17:50,730 has to be there, and so you might as well make that 296 00:17:50,730 --> 00:17:55,350 beautiful and turn it into a feature that you can then kind 297 00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:57,990 of celebrate as opposed to hide away. 298 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:02,460 Mia Hobbs: To me that sounds like that's harder to achieve as 299 00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:07,920 a designer than, for example, putting a stitch pattern or a 300 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,370 colourwork motif all over something, and then using a more 301 00:18:11,370 --> 00:18:15,690 standard design where the shaping... I guess you can use a 302 00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:20,070 book that can tell you the maths. But turning the shaping 303 00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:23,280 into a particular design feature probably is harder. 304 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,400 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it can be harder but it's very 305 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,250 satisfying at the end. And I tend to find, as well, that 306 00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:32,070 people who've gone through the process of really thinking 307 00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:35,280 through every single element of their design, rather than just 308 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,400 prioritising maybe the stitch or the pattern and then putting it 309 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:44,190 on almost like a template, there tends to be more satisfaction 310 00:18:44,190 --> 00:18:46,290 with the design because they really have chosen everything 311 00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:49,290 rather than going into automatic pilot and just choosing their 312 00:18:49,290 --> 00:18:50,100 defaults. 313 00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:57,180 Mia Hobbs: That's amazing. In terms of you as a knitter, it 314 00:18:57,330 --> 00:19:00,870 sounds like a lot of your design process is about the end product 315 00:19:00,870 --> 00:19:04,980 rather than the process of knitting it. How about you as a 316 00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:08,310 knitter? Are there particular things you gravitate towards? Do 317 00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:15,150 you prefer the more rhythmical stitch patterns that are more 318 00:19:15,150 --> 00:19:17,970 simple (if that's not a rude term to use)? 319 00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:20,040 Clare Mountain-Manipon: No, that is absolutely what I gravitate 320 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:27,600 towards. I love a beautiful-feeling yarn. I am 321 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,460 very tactile. I love working with patterns where I get to use 322 00:19:32,460 --> 00:19:37,590 a lovely yarn. I'm not too worried about patterns and 323 00:19:38,220 --> 00:19:41,130 variegated yarns, that kind of thing. It's not necessarily my 324 00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:46,500 vibe. But a really beautiful texture yarn or something in a 325 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,620 really special colour, I'm totally drawn to that. And then 326 00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:52,770 in terms of the actual stitch patterns, I'm much more of a 327 00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:59,070 knit-purl kind of texture person. I do enjoy knitting 328 00:19:59,070 --> 00:20:02,490 cables but it's not my favourite. I really am very 329 00:20:02,490 --> 00:20:08,550 basic. I can do colourwork, I can do cables, but I've realised 330 00:20:08,550 --> 00:20:11,700 that what I enjoy knitting the most, what I find most relaxing, 331 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,990 and in the end what I find more wearable at the end, is the 332 00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:16,680 simple stuff. 333 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,870 Mia Hobbs: Yeah. That's good that they all match together 334 00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:21,930 though. It'd be tricky if you were someone who wanted to spend 335 00:20:21,930 --> 00:20:24,030 time knitting colourwork, but actually it wasn't what you 336 00:20:24,030 --> 00:20:24,720 wanted to wear. 337 00:20:25,050 --> 00:20:26,880 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, that's so true. 338 00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:30,540 Mia Hobbs: And I think the main thing is that we all figure out 339 00:20:30,540 --> 00:20:34,560 what we need, isn't it? I was writing something about how do 340 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,050 you make knitting more therapeutic for you, and I think 341 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,950 that's the ideal thing, isn't it? That you find that those 342 00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:44,010 rhythmical stitch patterns of knits and purls, that's what 343 00:20:44,010 --> 00:20:47,730 floats your boat and you do that. And maybe I need some 344 00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:51,360 colourwork to engage my brain to stop it freelancing and thinking 345 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,690 about other things. But it's perfect that knitting can give 346 00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:56,670 both of us those things, even though they're different. 347 00:20:56,970 --> 00:20:59,400 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, that's absolutely the beauty of 348 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:04,110 knitting is there are so many routes you can take it, so many 349 00:21:04,110 --> 00:21:08,520 options. You can go super, super complex and really just 350 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,210 intricate stuff that is, to be honest, very fun to knit 351 00:21:12,270 --> 00:21:16,050 actually, if you're in the right mood. And for some people that 352 00:21:16,050 --> 00:21:21,300 is their thing. They love doing that. Or you can spend still get 353 00:21:21,330 --> 00:21:26,550 hours of enjoyment from knitting a stockinette sweater. It can 354 00:21:26,550 --> 00:21:30,300 still be equally as enjoyable and therapeutic. 355 00:21:30,420 --> 00:21:33,180 Mia Hobbs: Yeah, and I think a lot of people I've talked to and 356 00:21:33,180 --> 00:21:35,640 certainly something I found for myself is I need a number of 357 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,750 projects on the go. I do need a complicated one, I think, for my 358 00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:44,700 brain, and also actually because I think if I knit something very 359 00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:49,800 easy, I can knit too quickly and get pain, like RSI. I think I 360 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,190 need something that slows me down so that I can engage my 361 00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:58,770 brain in it but not hurt my shoulder. basically. But I also 362 00:21:58,770 --> 00:22:02,010 need (like for yesterday supervising two children 363 00:22:02,010 --> 00:22:06,300 homeschooling!) a plain sock on the go, so that I can see I may 364 00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:08,970 not have had access to my laptop or ticked anything off my to do 365 00:22:08,970 --> 00:22:13,680 list, but I did knit an inch of a sock. A mitten, actually, it 366 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:13,920 was. 367 00:22:14,820 --> 00:22:17,430 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Exactly. I think that's so true. I never 368 00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:22,080 used to be someone who had multiple projects on the go. I 369 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,340 think possibly budget reasons as well, like I'd buy a yarn, I 370 00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:29,220 would knit the project intended for that yarn, and then once I'd 371 00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:33,390 finished that project, I'd buy a new yarn, new project. Now, as 372 00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:37,560 an adult, I have a bit more expendable income and I'm able 373 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,370 to have maybe two/three projects on the go. I do find though 374 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,990 that, interestingly, I tend to favour one project, and the 375 00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:49,320 other two tend to be at the bottom of the pile and I really 376 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,340 almost have to force myself to work on them. So I wonder if I'm 377 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:59,460 possibly a monogamous knitter that is attempting to branch out 378 00:22:59,460 --> 00:23:03,720 into having multiple projects on the go. But yeah, I do like that 379 00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:07,230 single-tasking thing because, again, perhaps it's the sign of 380 00:23:07,230 --> 00:23:09,570 progress for me. Sometimes I feel like when I'm working on so 381 00:23:09,570 --> 00:23:12,870 many things at once, I don't get as much done on a single 382 00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:15,000 project. I have to wait longer for the final result. 383 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,170 Mia Hobbs: It dilutes it, doesn't it, I suppose. 384 00:23:16,170 --> 00:23:17,820 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, exactly. So I wonder if that's 385 00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:19,500 maybe why, actually, thinking about it. 386 00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:23,280 Mia Hobbs: Are there times your work forces you into polygamy 387 00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:24,720 with a knitting project? 388 00:23:25,860 --> 00:23:27,570 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah. [Laughs] Totally. Yeah, I'll 389 00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:30,990 have multiple things on the go, and then normally I'll have 390 00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:34,650 maybe a personal project as well, and then now with Nico I 391 00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:40,590 tend to have a little something on the go for him as well. I 392 00:23:40,590 --> 00:23:43,320 think I do find it more relaxing, actually, to just have 393 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,410 a single thing. I think I'm like that in daily life. I like just 394 00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:49,860 doing one single thing. I'm not a big fan of multi-tasking. I 395 00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:52,980 feel a bit overwhelmed by it. And there is a bit of that that 396 00:23:52,980 --> 00:23:56,760 can creep in if I have too many things in my knitting basket. I 397 00:23:57,180 --> 00:23:59,700 do like having a bit more focus. 398 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,730 Mia Hobbs: Do you think you've learnt more about what you need 399 00:24:02,730 --> 00:24:06,420 as a knitter over time, and how you work best? 400 00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:11,100 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I definitely do. Probably in the 401 00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:18,030 last five years, I would say, I've really started being very, 402 00:24:18,030 --> 00:24:22,770 very... what's the word... I think through my... I'd be more 403 00:24:22,770 --> 00:24:26,250 impulsive in the past about what I was going to knit. So I'd be 404 00:24:26,250 --> 00:24:29,430 more impulsive with yarn purchasing, but also with 405 00:24:29,460 --> 00:24:31,950 projects that I was casting on. I'd always find a project that I 406 00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:36,030 liked and a yarn that I liked and cast on, which sounds 407 00:24:36,150 --> 00:24:40,020 fantastic, right? But my experience is that sometimes 408 00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:43,110 with the end project, I feel disappointed because it's maybe 409 00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:46,740 not something that I'm going to regularly use. I'm not going to 410 00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:51,570 wear it as much. And I've realised that for myself, I need 411 00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:54,870 to consider all of that. And so it's really only in the last 412 00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:57,750 five years that I've kind of discovered that about myself, 413 00:24:58,050 --> 00:25:02,370 and I find that these days I have much less situations where 414 00:25:02,370 --> 00:25:06,480 I knitted something and I realised, "Oh, this isn't quite 415 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,110 what I wanted it to be." In the past, there'd be a few more 416 00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:12,210 where I'd knit a sweater and I'm like, "Oh, I like it, but it's 417 00:25:12,210 --> 00:25:15,750 not..." I don't use it very often. 418 00:25:15,930 --> 00:25:17,670 Mia Hobbs: So it's more intentional now. 419 00:25:17,730 --> 00:25:19,350 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it's more intentional now for 420 00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:19,740 sure. 421 00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:27,510 Mia Hobbs: I was just going to ask about colour - about whether 422 00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:30,150 colour makes a difference in terms of... it sounds like 423 00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:35,280 you're very much a tactile, texture person in terms of the 424 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,430 knitting feeling. I don't know if that's a comfort thing? 425 00:25:38,460 --> 00:25:40,020 That's probably my word, not yours. 426 00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:42,240 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think it could be a comfort thing, 427 00:25:42,270 --> 00:25:48,600 yeah. When I'm saying it has to feel great, I don't necessarily 428 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,800 mean that it has to be soft as well. I really love a woolly one 429 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:53,370 as well. 430 00:25:53,820 --> 00:25:57,870 Mia Hobbs: But it's a texture experience for you? 431 00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:59,190 Clare Mountain-Manipon: A texture experience, yeah. 432 00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:01,590 Mia Hobbs: And how about the colour? Does it matter what 433 00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:02,490 colour you're knitting with? 434 00:26:02,970 --> 00:26:06,900 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yes. I have... I call it my internal 435 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:09,450 colour palette, because I find that I'm drawn to the same 436 00:26:09,450 --> 00:26:13,200 colours all the time. I went through a stage... So the time I 437 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,710 was talking about when I was in college, and I was exploring 438 00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:20,670 what I wanted to wear, was very colourful and I really enjoyed 439 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,720 playing with colour. And then when I went to fashion school, I 440 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,310 actually found that I pushed that down because I wanted to be 441 00:26:29,310 --> 00:26:31,860 cool [laughs] and I wanted to wear black like all the other 442 00:26:31,860 --> 00:26:36,900 fashion students. And I think I didn't allow myself to have fun 443 00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:40,350 with colour in the way that I should have at the time. And so 444 00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:43,680 it took a little bit of undoing after fashion school, and 445 00:26:43,710 --> 00:26:48,600 leaving the commercial knitwear industry, because again you do 446 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:55,710 feel maybe that peer pressure to look a certain way or wear what 447 00:26:55,710 --> 00:27:01,650 is considered fashionable. Now, I've tapped into what colours I 448 00:27:01,650 --> 00:27:11,010 really enjoy wearing. I'm just drawn to them. I can literally 449 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,010 just like picture them in front of me, the colours I'm drawn to. 450 00:27:14,430 --> 00:27:19,770 And I suppose I don't tend to veer away from them too much, 451 00:27:19,770 --> 00:27:22,500 because there are times when I've done that: I like a colour, 452 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:27,510 but then I find that I don't tend to wear it. So I think 453 00:27:27,540 --> 00:27:31,440 colour for me is something I love playing with. I love 454 00:27:31,470 --> 00:27:35,700 exploring it in the home. I love exploring it in art, things like 455 00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:40,800 that. When it comes to my knitwear, whether I'm designing 456 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,030 or whether I'm knitting for myself, it's a bit more boxed in 457 00:27:45,090 --> 00:27:47,490 just because I suppose I'm thinking about that 458 00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:52,050 functionality myself. And also, when you're designing, colour is 459 00:27:52,110 --> 00:27:54,810 a little bit limited by photography as well. You can't 460 00:27:54,810 --> 00:27:58,140 go too dark, because it could be hard to photograph the details 461 00:27:58,140 --> 00:28:00,930 and things like that, so it can be a bit more limited. But no, 462 00:28:00,930 --> 00:28:06,480 certainly with knitwear, I get excited by it but it's within 463 00:28:06,690 --> 00:28:10,260 limits, to a certain extent. It's within these boundaries of 464 00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:12,930 my mind where I'm like, "Okay, this has got to be functional 465 00:28:12,930 --> 00:28:14,730 too. How's it going to fit a certain wardrobe?" 466 00:28:14,850 --> 00:28:16,860 Mia Hobbs: And how would you describe your kind of comfort 467 00:28:16,860 --> 00:28:18,330 palette, your internal palette? 468 00:28:18,450 --> 00:28:22,260 Clare Mountain-Manipon: It is neutrals with pops of more 469 00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:28,620 earthy pinks and clays and turquoise and olives, that kind 470 00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:33,540 of things. I've got plenty of navy and camel and grey, 471 00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:37,590 charcoal, cream, that kind of thing, in my wardrobe. But in 472 00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:41,760 terms of pops of colour, they tend to be more accents, and it 473 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:47,310 will be blush pinks, clays, turquoises, olives, that kind of 474 00:28:47,310 --> 00:28:52,080 thing. It feels feminine but quite natural. 475 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,530 Mia Hobbs: And it sounds like it feels like it's not a fashion 476 00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:57,090 school hangover. It's you. 477 00:28:57,090 --> 00:29:01,200 Clare Mountain-Manipon: No. It feels very true to myself. And 478 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,180 what's really interesting is now, Nico is nonverbal at the 479 00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:11,850 moment, and I must admit I find myself buying him clothes in my 480 00:29:11,850 --> 00:29:16,020 internal colour palette because it's just what I'm drawn to. But 481 00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:18,540 it's hilarious because often we'll go out and people will 482 00:29:18,540 --> 00:29:21,390 say, "Oh, you're matching today!" I really have such a 483 00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:23,640 formed colour palette. 484 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,480 Mia Hobbs: I wondered whether you're knitting for Nico, 485 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,810 actually thinking, "Oh, I'm going to knit in a bright yellow 486 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:36,150 because it's not for me and it's different and it's fun." But it 487 00:29:36,150 --> 00:29:38,250 sounds like he's been assimilated into your palette 488 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:38,640 currently. 489 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,720 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I know, he has. It's quite bad. [Laughs] 490 00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:44,160 I do have certain colours though that I knit for him that I love, 491 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,330 that don't look good on me. I'm very, very pale. Mustard yellow 492 00:29:48,330 --> 00:29:51,510 is not the best colour on me. It can make me look a bit sallow. 493 00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:54,810 But I really love mustard yellow and he looks amazing in it, so I 494 00:29:54,810 --> 00:29:57,960 do knit things or buy him things in mustard yellow because he 495 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,990 just looks great in it. But I put him in loads of pinks and 496 00:30:00,990 --> 00:30:04,710 people are just like, "Oh, it's a girl!" But I'm a strong 497 00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:08,610 believer that colour is colour, and anyone can wear colour. And 498 00:30:09,150 --> 00:30:11,940 yeah, he does tend to wear my internal colour palette. 499 00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:15,420 Mia Hobbs: I'd love for you to tell me about a significant 500 00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:17,910 knitting project, Clare, if you've got one in mind. 501 00:30:18,030 --> 00:30:19,830 Clare Mountain-Manipon: A significant knitting project... 502 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:29,310 I suppose it would be a design project that I did knit, and I 503 00:30:29,310 --> 00:30:34,440 believe it was my first published project. And it was on 504 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:39,330 the cover of Laine Magazine. It was years ago, I think 2017. It 505 00:30:39,330 --> 00:30:44,130 was one of the early issues. And I remember the magazine coming 506 00:30:44,130 --> 00:30:46,320 out and I thought, "Oh, I'd like to design something in this 507 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:52,590 style." It felt quite connected to my own personal style. I 508 00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:57,300 designed in The Fibre Co's Road to China Light. It's actually a 509 00:30:57,300 --> 00:31:01,140 yarn that I picked up just a sample of, to knit my sister 510 00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:05,010 something, not that long beforehand at a little Christmas 511 00:31:05,010 --> 00:31:09,480 market. And I thought it was a beautiful yarn. And when I came 512 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,810 up with this design idea (it's a drop shoulder sweater) it had 513 00:31:12,810 --> 00:31:15,510 this kind of gridded lace pattern that went up the side 514 00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:17,610 panels of the sweater and then kind of draped over the 515 00:31:17,610 --> 00:31:21,330 shoulder. I just wanted something really light but cosy 516 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,870 to knit it in, that would have good drape, because it had a bit 517 00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:27,930 of positive ease in there, and I'd had a feeling that this Road 518 00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:31,950 to China Light would be beautiful for it. And yeah, I 519 00:31:31,950 --> 00:31:34,620 was just shocked, to be honest, that they would even include me 520 00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:38,370 in the magazine as a new designer, but also the fact that 521 00:31:38,730 --> 00:31:41,790 it was eventually on the cover, which just blew my mind. And I 522 00:31:41,790 --> 00:31:45,510 can remember calling my sister saying, "You won't believe 523 00:31:45,510 --> 00:31:49,620 this!" You know, I never would have imagined it because I still 524 00:31:49,620 --> 00:31:52,770 felt very new in the handknitting industry. Yes, I've 525 00:31:52,770 --> 00:31:55,320 got this experience working in the commercial industry, but 526 00:31:57,030 --> 00:32:01,830 no-one knew me. I'm still not a fully-fledged established 527 00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:05,760 designer in the way that a lot of designers are. But to me that 528 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,630 just felt like a huge milestone, and it made me think, "Maybe I 529 00:32:09,630 --> 00:32:13,500 can do this. Maybe I can design things that people will want to 530 00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:13,740 knit." 531 00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:16,830 Mia Hobbs: Did that change things for you, that kind of 532 00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:19,080 belief? Or did being on the cover open doors? 533 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,880 Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think I started taking myself more 534 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:29,280 seriously. I think I gave myself a bit more trust that I was 535 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,840 capable. In terms of whether other people maybe took me more 536 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,260 seriously, a little bit of that maybe as well. I did get 537 00:32:37,260 --> 00:32:42,270 published again by other people, and maybe they saw that as a bit 538 00:32:42,270 --> 00:32:47,700 of proof that I could do it. But I think the biggest thing that 539 00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:50,910 changed really, from having knitted that... and it was a 540 00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:54,030 lovely knitting experience, and I went on to work for the Fibre 541 00:32:54,030 --> 00:32:57,000 Co as well. So in a way, even just yarn choice was so 542 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,240 significant. They were a lovely company. I no longer work for 543 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,450 them, but they were a lovely company to work for and a really 544 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,030 important part of who I am now, as a person working in the 545 00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:14,400 knitting industry. It just felt significant on a lot of 546 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,450 different levels. I still have that sample under my bed. It's 547 00:33:18,450 --> 00:33:20,910 one of those kind of sweaters that I'll often pull out if I go 548 00:33:20,910 --> 00:33:24,600 to a knitting festival or something, because I have a 549 00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:26,280 happy feeling related to it. 550 00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:29,370 Mia Hobbs: So it sounds like that design was really important 551 00:33:29,370 --> 00:33:32,940 for you in terms of your mindset as well. 552 00:33:33,270 --> 00:33:36,000 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, 100%. It created self-belief, 553 00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:41,340 really. In the beginning, I was very much figuring out things as 554 00:33:41,340 --> 00:33:46,620 I went along and feeling an amateur, in a way. Even though 555 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:49,980 it's funny because obviously I had a lot of training. I'm 556 00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:52,680 trained as a knitwear designer, I've done pattern cutting, I can 557 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,680 work with machine-knitting, handknitting. I have this 558 00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,510 history of skills that I've learnt over the years, not to 559 00:34:00,510 --> 00:34:04,410 mention the hand-knitting that I'd done for years and years 560 00:34:04,410 --> 00:34:11,370 beforehand. But I still went into it very much feeling unsure 561 00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:15,930 of myself and my capabilities. And I think for me, being able 562 00:34:15,930 --> 00:34:19,410 to go through that process... and it really was so different 563 00:34:19,410 --> 00:34:21,420 to anything I'd done before, because I'd only ever 564 00:34:21,570 --> 00:34:24,150 self-published previous to that, and I wasn't working to 565 00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:27,330 deadlines in the same way. I wasn't working within someone 566 00:34:27,330 --> 00:34:31,050 else's process. I had my own ways of doing things that I had 567 00:34:31,050 --> 00:34:35,760 to adapt. But having come out of it, I realised that I was more 568 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,700 than capable of doing it, and it gave me that self belief to 569 00:34:38,700 --> 00:34:39,330 continue. 570 00:34:40,350 --> 00:34:43,470 Mia Hobbs: And now you have your own design school where you're 571 00:34:43,470 --> 00:34:45,480 teaching other people to design? 572 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:50,760 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I do. So I have a school called 573 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,990 Sweater Design School. In the past, it's opened up once a 574 00:34:54,990 --> 00:34:59,370 year; now I'm doing it twice a year, now that Nico is in 575 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,490 part-time childcare, so I have a bit more bandwidth to offer to 576 00:35:02,490 --> 00:35:07,140 it. I teach beginner designers how to design their first 577 00:35:07,140 --> 00:35:12,120 pullover. And I suppose for me, it echoes back to that 578 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,570 experience with that pullover that I designed for Laine. It 579 00:35:15,570 --> 00:35:18,750 was that thing of learning that I'm capable, and that confidence 580 00:35:18,750 --> 00:35:21,480 that comes from having done it and gone through the process. 581 00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:25,590 What I find with my students is that that first jumper that they 582 00:35:25,590 --> 00:35:30,690 design, there's so much umming and ahhing, feeling uncertain. 583 00:35:32,070 --> 00:35:35,070 It's a very complex process, especially when you're grading 584 00:35:35,070 --> 00:35:38,550 into multiple sizes. There can be a lot of anxiety around 585 00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:42,720 whether you're going to be able to achieve it. But once they 586 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:45,150 come through the end, and they get to the end of the process 587 00:35:45,150 --> 00:35:48,240 and they've got that final pattern designed, there's so 588 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,730 much confidence that comes from it. And then they go on to do 589 00:35:50,730 --> 00:35:53,790 another one and another one, and it just builds confidence more 590 00:35:53,790 --> 00:36:00,150 and more as they go through it. So I absolutely love doing that 591 00:36:00,150 --> 00:36:00,720 with them. 592 00:36:00,870 --> 00:36:02,700 Mia Hobbs: So it sounds like you get a lot of joy from taking 593 00:36:02,730 --> 00:36:05,490 other people through that process, that you remember was 594 00:36:05,490 --> 00:36:06,360 pivotal for you. 595 00:36:06,660 --> 00:36:09,390 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah. It's so exciting because I'm 596 00:36:09,420 --> 00:36:13,560 there with them from the very beginning. So we are coming up 597 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,680 with mood boards, then turning them into sketches, and then 598 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,430 swatches, and grading it out in a spreadsheet, so you really do 599 00:36:20,430 --> 00:36:24,090 see every part of the process and you can see your students 600 00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:29,610 transform this early idea into a fully fledged garment that they 601 00:36:29,610 --> 00:36:36,030 publish, and then other people knit it! It's such a rewarding 602 00:36:36,090 --> 00:36:38,580 experience, not only for the student, but also for me to 603 00:36:38,580 --> 00:36:41,910 observe it. I feel so delighted for them, because I know how 604 00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:42,840 proud they must feel. 605 00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:46,080 Mia Hobbs: Yeah. I don't think you mentioned the name of your 606 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:46,590 pullover. 607 00:36:47,490 --> 00:36:50,160 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Oh! The name of my pullover is the Hay 608 00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:50,730 sweater. 609 00:36:51,210 --> 00:36:54,600 Mia Hobbs: Hay sweater. Oh yeah, I do remember seeing it on the 610 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,060 front cover, because I think that was around the time we met 611 00:36:57,060 --> 00:36:57,750 each other. 612 00:36:57,930 --> 00:36:59,100 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yes, I think it probably was. 613 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,500 Mia Hobbs: But I'll obviously put a link to it in the show 614 00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:06,240 notes. I always end by asking: what's the greatest gift that 615 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:08,640 knitting has given you for the rest of your life? 616 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,700 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Oh my goodness. I would say the 617 00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:18,840 greatest gift that it has given me is that feeling of being able 618 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,090 to turn my ideas into reality. That is the most wonderful 619 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,300 thing. I love being able to dream something up and then 620 00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:31,590 execute on it. And it's this tangible thing. 621 00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:35,160 Mia Hobbs: So there's a certain magic in that process from idea 622 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,150 to a creation. 623 00:37:36,540 --> 00:37:38,670 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Magical. Yeah. 624 00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:41,220 Mia Hobbs: That's amazing! That's a really interesting and 625 00:37:41,220 --> 00:37:47,760 different answer than I've heard before. Thank you so much for 626 00:37:47,790 --> 00:37:50,550 joining me on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure to 627 00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:54,390 hear about all your ideas. And I think you're the first designer 628 00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:57,720 actually, so it's really interesting to hear your 629 00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:58,920 designer perspective. 630 00:37:58,980 --> 00:38:00,270 Clare Mountain-Manipon: Wonderful! 631 00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:05,310 Mia Hobbs: If people want to find out more about you and your 632 00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:07,410 sweater school, how would they do that? 633 00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:10,740 Clare Mountain-Manipon: So all they need to do is head to 634 00:38:10,740 --> 00:38:14,850 www.sistermountain.com and there you'll find my blog. I update it 635 00:38:14,850 --> 00:38:18,990 regularly with tips on knitting pattern design and resources. 636 00:38:19,350 --> 00:38:22,590 And also there is a section all about Sweater Design School. So 637 00:38:22,590 --> 00:38:25,320 if you are interested in hearing more about it when it opens up 638 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,730 again, which should be sort of late August time, then you can 639 00:38:29,730 --> 00:38:32,220 sign up to be notified in that area. 640 00:38:32,730 --> 00:38:35,100 Mia Hobbs: Super. Clare, thank you so much. 641 00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:37,190 Clare Mountain-Manipon: That was wonderful! Thank you. 642 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,120 Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for listening to the Why I Knit 643 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,790 podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic 644 00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:50,360 knitting, you can follow me on Instagram @knittingistherapeutic 645 00:38:50,690 --> 00:38:53,870 or at my website www.therapeuticknitting.org. If 646 00:38:53,870 --> 00:38:56,120 you're enjoying the podcast, I would really appreciate it if 647 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,720 you could leave a rating and a review on your podcast app. This 648 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,180 will help grow the podcast and let more people know about the 649 00:39:02,180 --> 00:39:04,730 therapeutic benefits of knitting. And don't forget to 650 00:39:04,730 --> 00:39:06,320 subscribe too. Thank you!