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Dallas Burnett: Hey everybody.

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We're talking to Patrick Ledon today.

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What an amazing guy He is a leadership
expert, wall Street Journal bestselling

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author former Army Ranger Vanderbilt
professor and co-author with James

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Patterson of Disrupt Everything and Win.

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He has some incredible stories
from jumping out of airplanes

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to hiking Mount Kilimanjaro.

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Building an incredible
business with his wife.

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You don't want to miss this
incredible conversation.

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Welcome to the last 10%.

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Your host, Dallas Burnett, dives
into incredible conversations that

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will inspire you to finish well.

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And finish strong, strong.

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Listen as guests share their journeys and
valuable advice on living in the last 10%.

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If you are a leader, a coach, a
business owner, or someone looking to

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level up, you are in the right place.

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Remember, you can give 90% effort and
make it a long way, but it's finding

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out how to unlock the last 10%.

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That makes all the difference in your
life, your relationships, and your work.

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Now here's Dallas.

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Welcome, welcome, welcome.

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I am Dallas Burnett, sitting
in my 1905 Koch brothers

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barber chair in Thrive Studios.

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But more importantly, today
we have an amazing guest.

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Patrick Ledon is a guy who's
lived an amazing life from leading

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paratroopers in the army to building
successful businesses, teaching at

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Vanderbilt now he's co-authoring
books with legend James Patterson

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on turning disruption into success.

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I'm so excited about
this conversation today.

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Welcome to the show, Patrick.

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Patrick Leddin: Hey Dallas.

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Thanks so much for having me.

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Hello everybody.

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So glad to be here with you today.

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Dallas Burnett: Now Patrick, you hail
out of Nashville, which is obviously

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one of my favorite, favorite towns,
and you have been there for quite some

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time because of Vanderbilt and stuff.

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But I would love for you to share
with our listeners kind of a

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backdrop of your story, just kind
of your journey through your career.

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Patrick Leddin: So you
wanna know my origin

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Dallas Burnett: Origin story, baby.

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That's right.

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Patrick Leddin: Yeah, man, I'll
just lay it all out there for you.

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So, um, I'm probably one of the
least likely persons to have a

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professorship at Vanderbilt University.

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I grew up on the south
side of Chicago actually.

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The area that I grew up in has had
a little bit of a claim to fame

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recently because I went to the same
Catholic church growing up as the Pope.

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Dallas Burnett: my goodness.

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Patrick Leddin: church.

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Dallas Burnett: Wow.

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Patrick Leddin: on the
south side of Chicago.

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His house was probably like
three blocks from mine.

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I mean, I could ride my bike

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Dallas Burnett: Oh my goodness.

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Patrick Leddin: in the seventies.

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I didn't know him.

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my oldest brother actually went K
through eight with him, so he knew him.

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I did know his mom, 'cause his
mom was pretty big in our church.

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and as a growing up as a Catholic
family, I was an altar boy and

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he was an altar boy and all that.

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So I like to jokingly say that,
probably when I was baptized,

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the pope was like my altar boy.

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I dunno.

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So anyway,

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Dallas Burnett: That's awesome.

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Patrick Leddin: the youngest of five.

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My dad, worked for the phone

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Dallas Burnett: Okay.

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Patrick Leddin: and, attended
bar and did a couple other

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things to kinda make ends meet.

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I came out of, high school, not
really sure what I was gonna do.

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I went to community college first and,
quickly Didn't do well, put it that

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way, and decided I better join the army.

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So

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Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

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Patrick Leddin: the Army and I
started to get my life on track a bit.

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I was pretty decent at the army.

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I don't know, they just
told me, turn right.

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I turned right.

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They told me turn left.

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I turned left, told me,
shut up, I'd shut up.

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And there they like rewarded you for that.

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So I just kept going.

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So.

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I ended up going through my
undergraduate using a scholarship

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from the Army and, went to infantry
school, airborne School, ranger School.

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Ended up going to a unit
called the 82nd Airborne

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Dallas Burnett: Wow.

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Wow.

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Patrick Leddin: married pretty
early, got married right outta

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college to my wife Jamie.

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so we've been married 34 years now.

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Dallas Burnett: Congratulations.

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Patrick Leddin: yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I have two grandkids.

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so the time in the military was mostly
spent at Fort Benning and Fort Bragg.

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got to jump outta planes and lead
soldiers in the 82nd Airborne Division.

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My last job was a company commander
in the 82nd Airborne Division,

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and then I went, I made a 180.

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I decided, okay, I wanna
do something different.

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Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

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Patrick Leddin: I got out and I went
into consulting and I went into KPMG

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consulting, which was literally at the
time I jokingly said it was going from.

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Bdu, battle dress uniforms to
Brooks Brothers because it was

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like a complete different setting.

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And the reason I went there, a buddy
of mine said, what are you gonna do?

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I said, I'm not exactly sure.

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He is like, well, come join us at KPMG.

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I'm like, what do you do?

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He is like, we build slides
and make spreadsheets.

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I'm like.

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Okay, that sounds okay.

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He's like, get to wear a suit.

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I'm like, okay.

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So I got there and I just, I hit it at the
right time on the project that I was on.

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when I first showed up, there
were two people from KPOG on this

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project, and I was the second person.

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Dallas Burnett: Wow,

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Patrick Leddin: we reported to
another company that was the

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primary contractor on this project.

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fast forward three years later and I'm in
charge of the project, the subcontract,

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the other contracting company's gone, and
I've got 38 people reporting to me in a

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Dallas Burnett: good

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Patrick Leddin: project.

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Dallas Burnett: gracious.

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Patrick Leddin: from zero to
12 million in, in a few years.

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And I actually decided at that
point I'm gonna start my own gig.

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So I

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Dallas Burnett: Wow.

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Patrick Leddin: Started that and
my wife and I did it together.

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I started as a, what we would now
call a side hustle Dallas, but we

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didn't have side hustles back then.

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It was a side hustle
and I was moonlighting

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Dallas Burnett: All right.

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Patrick Leddin: bi business and
suddenly it was like taking off.

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So I decided to leave KPMG.

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I started working in a human, created
a human capital consulting firm.

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got to work with a lot of great
partners like Franklin Covey,

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and a ton of great clients.

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And we sold that in when, 12 years later.

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Dallas Burnett: 12

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Patrick Leddin: a few offices, we

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Dallas Burnett: years later.

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Patrick Leddin: 12 years later,
somebody came along and made

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us an offer we couldn't refuse.

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We sold it and along the way the
army kept paying for school, like

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the GI Bill and all that stuff.

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So I

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Dallas Burnett: Yeah,

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Patrick Leddin: keep going to school.

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Dallas Burnett: sure.

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Patrick Leddin: I got my doctorate
along the way from the University

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of Kentucky Then after we sold
the business, I'm like, okay, I

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guess I'll, I'm gonna try teaching.

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So I like, where do I want to go?

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And I said, Vanderbilt's a great school.

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I wanna live in Nashville,
see if I can get in there.

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Dallas Burnett: That's awesome.

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Patrick Leddin: as my then 80 some year
old, aunt told me, she goes, get your

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foot in that door and just keep pushing.

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So I said I did, I got in,
I started for a summer.

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I got offered a full-time contract.

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And, then I became the director of
the program of the largest program at

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the university undergraduate business.

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Dallas Burnett: Wow.

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Patrick Leddin: there for 12 years.

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And that's where I met James Patterson.

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And I decided once we started launching
this, research project that the university

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sponsored on disruption that I ran for
a few years, once the book came out,

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I'm like, okay, twenties, were running
around the woods in the army, thirties

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to forties, building a business into
my fifties teaching college students

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and now I'm gonna change the world.

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Dallas Burnett: You gonna change the
world, it's time to change the world.

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I love it, man.

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That's so cool.

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Patrick Leddin: the world
needs a little changing.

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So.

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Dallas Burnett: Oh, listen.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Patrick Leddin: those are
all the highlights, man.

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There's plenty of screw up mistakes,

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Dallas Burnett: no.

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Patrick Leddin: balls, you name it.

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We could dig into all those too.

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Dallas Burnett: No, it's really
good because I feel like that, and

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we were talking before the show
and you were telling me something

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about your experience and stuff.

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It just, you just had a variety.

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I love, I love guests that, that have
this breadth of experience because

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you have such perspective on different
things and going from the military

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to consulting, then to education.

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You've got this breadth of
experience that, that you, have.

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Amassed.

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And I just think that's really fun.

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I wanna talk to you a
little bit about resilience.

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We're coming into the end of the year
and, people are, you know, kind of

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gearing up for the holiday season, but
man, they're probably, some people are

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probably like, woo, I need a break.

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'cause they've been grinding
hard this fall and resilience is

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something that's so important.

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And, we do a lot of work around
burnout and resilience as well.

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Battling, battling burnout and
finding out how to be more resilient.

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We were talking before and parachuting
out of the jumping out of planes,

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like something like 69 times, which
is, oh my gosh, this is incredible.

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But one of those times you actually
injured yourself, in your back.

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what is it about that would you say about
that experience that really kind of taught

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you some things about resilience that you
carried through the rest of your career?

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Patrick Leddin: Well that incident that
you're talking about, so yeah, I did jump.

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I was, I jumped 69 times.

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I kinda wish I'd done one more.

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70 seems like a nice, even
number was really great.

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And it's funny jumping in the
military, especially in conventional.

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I'm not, I wasn't in the special
forces unit, so they tend to get up

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in helicopters and jump out pretty
quick, maybe do a few in a day.

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The conventional forces, when you're
just dealing with a lot of soldiers, it

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just takes a lot of time for every jump.

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so you're gonna jump onto the
plane at two o'clock in the

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morning, which is a normal time.

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you're gonna be reporting at
about noon, like 14 hours ahead of

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Dallas Burnett: Oh my

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Patrick Leddin: because there's
lots of inspections and making

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sure everybody's in the right
order and the manifest is correct.

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And there's all that type of stuff.

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if you have hundreds or thousands of
soldiers are all lined up in a field and

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then you have to get on buses or they call
'em camel cars, like you would literally.

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Put cattle in, stick everybody in there,
drive them down and you gotta go through.

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Then you gotta get your para,
you gotta rehearse everything.

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Then you have to put your parachutes on.

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Then it has to be inspected, and it's
just a big, it's a big long process.

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And then of course, when you
fly in the airplane, the Air

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Force is getting training too.

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So it's not like you just get in
the plane, they drive you over,

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fly you over and you jump out.

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They fly around for two
hours or something like that.

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Dallas Burnett: Oh my

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Patrick Leddin: So

239
00:08:57,648 --> 00:08:57,918
Dallas Burnett: goodness.

240
00:08:58,178 --> 00:08:58,508
Patrick Leddin: pro.

241
00:08:58,538 --> 00:08:59,618
My point is a long process.

242
00:08:59,618 --> 00:09:04,658
for 69 jumps I probably tried
to jump 120 times with weather

243
00:09:04,658 --> 00:09:05,498
and this, that, and the other.

244
00:09:05,738 --> 00:09:05,948
All

245
00:09:06,083 --> 00:09:06,303
Dallas Burnett: Oh

246
00:09:06,428 --> 00:09:06,518
Patrick Leddin: that

247
00:09:06,738 --> 00:09:07,608
Dallas Burnett: wow.

248
00:09:07,688 --> 00:09:07,868
Patrick Leddin: yeah.

249
00:09:08,198 --> 00:09:09,638
So this one particular jump.

250
00:09:10,668 --> 00:09:11,748
there's a thing that can happen.

251
00:09:11,748 --> 00:09:13,758
There's lots of things that can
happen that can go sideways, right?

252
00:09:13,938 --> 00:09:14,958
Your parachute might not open,

253
00:09:15,048 --> 00:09:15,318
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

254
00:09:15,318 --> 00:09:15,648
Patrick Leddin: great.

255
00:09:15,898 --> 00:09:17,008
these are static line jumps.

256
00:09:17,008 --> 00:09:20,198
So you jump out of the plane and the
plane, maintains your static line.

257
00:09:20,198 --> 00:09:23,708
It deploys your parachute for
you, only jumping from 800 feet.

258
00:09:23,708 --> 00:09:27,278
So if you jump out of the plane and you
have four seconds for your parachute

259
00:09:27,278 --> 00:09:30,608
to open, if it doesn't open in four
seconds, you have three seconds basically

260
00:09:30,878 --> 00:09:31,893
to react before you hit the ground.

261
00:09:32,588 --> 00:09:34,088
So seven seconds to fall, about 800

262
00:09:34,268 --> 00:09:34,838
Dallas Burnett: Good.

263
00:09:34,843 --> 00:09:35,023
Patrick Leddin: it's, it's,

264
00:09:35,108 --> 00:09:35,588
Dallas Burnett: Right.

265
00:09:35,738 --> 00:09:38,378
Patrick Leddin: different than
like 10,000 or 20,000 foot jumps.

266
00:09:38,758 --> 00:09:42,173
when I jumped, you would jumped pri,
primarily two airplanes and one held

267
00:09:42,263 --> 00:09:44,813
64 people, and the other one held 120.

268
00:09:45,173 --> 00:09:46,163
In either case.

269
00:09:46,553 --> 00:09:49,043
In both of those instances, a
plane would fly over the drop

270
00:09:49,043 --> 00:09:51,833
zone, and in one minute's time
everybody would be in the air.

271
00:09:52,133 --> 00:09:54,593
So 120 people dump out
of a plane in one minute.

272
00:09:55,248 --> 00:09:55,998
Theoretically.

273
00:09:55,998 --> 00:09:59,358
Theoretically, the idea Dallas, is that
they open up the two back doors on the

274
00:09:59,358 --> 00:10:02,538
plane, the side doors, and you obviously
you have half the plane going out, one

275
00:10:02,538 --> 00:10:03,918
door, half plane going out the other door.

276
00:10:03,918 --> 00:10:07,638
Everybody extends their arms, so they
are separated by about one second,

277
00:10:07,938 --> 00:10:11,148
and in theory, the first jumper goes
out and then the next jumper goes out.

278
00:10:11,148 --> 00:10:14,028
And then theoretically, you imagine
everybody's staggered all the way down.

279
00:10:14,028 --> 00:10:14,603
So we have spac.

280
00:10:15,248 --> 00:10:16,718
But sometimes that doesn't happen.

281
00:10:16,718 --> 00:10:18,128
And what you're referring
to, it didn't happen.

282
00:10:18,458 --> 00:10:23,858
So I jump out of the plane that night and
I go, I count 1000, 2000, 3000, 4,000.

283
00:10:23,858 --> 00:10:26,378
That's when you check for your
parachute and you could feel it tugging.

284
00:10:26,598 --> 00:10:29,628
so I was like 1000, 2000, 3000, ugh.

285
00:10:30,708 --> 00:10:33,738
Because I got hit in the back of
my neck by somebody else's boot.

286
00:10:34,153 --> 00:10:38,373
we just hit underneath the airplane then,
that's not the desired thing to happen,

287
00:10:38,373 --> 00:10:40,053
but there's drills so you know what to do.

288
00:10:40,053 --> 00:10:43,233
And I was a jump master, so that
meant I put people on airplanes too.

289
00:10:43,503 --> 00:10:46,833
So, um, like in, in the Army, not to go
too deep into this, but there's three

290
00:10:46,833 --> 00:10:48,633
different levels of parachute, wings.

291
00:10:48,993 --> 00:10:51,663
So you have the basic wings, which
means you've jumped five times

292
00:10:51,663 --> 00:10:52,863
and you went to airborne school.

293
00:10:53,103 --> 00:10:55,803
You have the senior wings, which
puts a star over the top of them.

294
00:10:56,013 --> 00:10:58,593
That means you're a jump master,
you've done certain things, and you've

295
00:10:58,593 --> 00:11:00,153
jumped, I think 30 times is the number.

296
00:11:00,513 --> 00:11:02,853
And then, the next and so many
years on jump status, and then

297
00:11:02,853 --> 00:11:03,783
the next level or the high.

298
00:11:03,783 --> 00:11:08,103
S level is Aretha around it, which is a
jump master, a master para I should say.

299
00:11:08,433 --> 00:11:11,403
And that's what I was, so I jumped
a lot of times and all that and

300
00:11:11,403 --> 00:11:13,743
put a lot of people on airplanes,
so I knew the drills really well.

301
00:11:14,418 --> 00:11:17,388
In this particular case, when you're hit,
when you're a tangled parachute, that's

302
00:11:17,388 --> 00:11:18,768
called a high altitude entanglement.

303
00:11:19,638 --> 00:11:21,768
opposed to low altitude, you
might steer into each other.

304
00:11:21,918 --> 00:11:22,848
This is higher altitude.

305
00:11:22,848 --> 00:11:23,478
It just happens.

306
00:11:23,808 --> 00:11:27,228
So I look up and the, what you don't wanna
see is you don't wanna see what they call

307
00:11:27,228 --> 00:11:30,558
a cigarette roll, which is basically your
parachute just rolled up into itself.

308
00:11:30,863 --> 00:11:31,083
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

309
00:11:31,098 --> 00:11:31,848
Patrick Leddin: you have no parachute.

310
00:11:32,088 --> 00:11:33,258
But I looked up, but we didn't have that.

311
00:11:33,258 --> 00:11:36,828
We actually had two full canopies,
which is the best case scenario.

312
00:11:37,233 --> 00:11:39,693
the second best case scenario
is you have one full parachute.

313
00:11:39,723 --> 00:11:42,153
You can still make it with
two people, but two is great.

314
00:11:42,453 --> 00:11:45,423
So the problem is you can't control
how you land or anything like that.

315
00:11:45,423 --> 00:11:48,513
we came down the whole way the, I remember
the jumper above me the whole time.

316
00:11:48,513 --> 00:11:49,143
He was above me.

317
00:11:49,143 --> 00:11:52,413
I was below him and I was
talking to him in the air.

318
00:11:52,413 --> 00:11:55,173
I was just telling him, okay, don't
worry, we have two full canopies,

319
00:11:55,473 --> 00:11:56,373
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

320
00:11:56,373 --> 00:11:56,913
We'll be safe.

321
00:11:56,913 --> 00:11:57,543
Just hang in there.

322
00:11:57,543 --> 00:11:57,993
Don't pull.

323
00:11:58,143 --> 00:11:59,553
Do not pull your reserve, parachute.

324
00:11:59,583 --> 00:12:01,053
'cause that can complicate
things, you know?

325
00:12:01,203 --> 00:12:02,163
Just stay with what we got.

326
00:12:02,163 --> 00:12:03,393
And we came all the
way down to the ground.

327
00:12:03,573 --> 00:12:04,023
It was funny.

328
00:12:04,023 --> 00:12:06,093
I was calm all the way down to the ground.

329
00:12:06,093 --> 00:12:06,663
I was calm.

330
00:12:06,963 --> 00:12:08,763
And then we hit the
ground pretty hard 'cause.

331
00:12:09,543 --> 00:12:10,893
you're not controlling
for wind or anything.

332
00:12:10,893 --> 00:12:11,583
You're just hitting the ground.

333
00:12:12,063 --> 00:12:15,453
And I hit the ground and this old
army sergeant major came running up.

334
00:12:15,453 --> 00:12:16,653
I didn't know he was a
sergeant major at first.

335
00:12:16,653 --> 00:12:17,163
It was dark.

336
00:12:17,433 --> 00:12:21,003
He just saw us, he saw that we were tied
together in, in the air as we came down.

337
00:12:21,003 --> 00:12:22,443
So he ran over to see if we were okay.

338
00:12:23,223 --> 00:12:24,033
he said, are you okay?

339
00:12:24,033 --> 00:12:25,433
And I stood up and I said yes.

340
00:12:25,433 --> 00:12:28,283
And then I was like, holy
crap, what just happened?

341
00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:29,443
That's when it like hit me.

342
00:12:29,443 --> 00:12:30,463
I was like, oh my gosh.

343
00:12:30,783 --> 00:12:31,003
Dallas Burnett: oh

344
00:12:31,393 --> 00:12:31,903
Patrick Leddin: So anyway, that,

345
00:12:32,098 --> 00:12:32,228
Dallas Burnett: my gosh.

346
00:12:32,293 --> 00:12:34,213
Patrick Leddin: the story of
that particular situation.

347
00:12:34,213 --> 00:12:36,853
I could, it does extend
because I had a bad habit.

348
00:12:37,048 --> 00:12:38,278
that my would frustrate my wife.

349
00:12:38,278 --> 00:12:40,828
So you go on these, you go on these
parachute jumps or late time, late

350
00:12:40,828 --> 00:12:43,408
night operations or whatever, and you
might get home at three or four in the

351
00:12:43,408 --> 00:12:47,018
morning and your face is camouflage,
you're covered in camouflage paint, and

352
00:12:47,018 --> 00:12:48,278
you're just, you're tired, exhausted.

353
00:12:48,278 --> 00:12:51,458
So I would do like the world's worst
shower, you know, kind of shower off.

354
00:12:51,458 --> 00:12:54,358
And I'd usually get in trouble for,
leaving camouflage on the pillows

355
00:12:54,478 --> 00:12:57,258
or whatever, and not getting it
all off by my ears or whatever.

356
00:12:57,648 --> 00:13:00,818
And and I remember that particular
morning she woke me up and she's like.

357
00:13:01,193 --> 00:13:02,213
What happened to you?

358
00:13:02,513 --> 00:13:03,383
I'm like, what are you talking about?

359
00:13:03,383 --> 00:13:06,383
She goes, you have a boot
mark on the back of your neck.

360
00:13:06,623 --> 00:13:07,193
Dallas Burnett: Oh

361
00:13:07,253 --> 00:13:07,433
Patrick Leddin: that's,

362
00:13:07,498 --> 00:13:07,718
Dallas Burnett: my

363
00:13:07,763 --> 00:13:08,543
Patrick Leddin: I actually had a boot

364
00:13:08,638 --> 00:13:09,198
Dallas Burnett: goodness.

365
00:13:09,383 --> 00:13:09,533
Patrick Leddin: the,

366
00:13:09,678 --> 00:13:10,238
Dallas Burnett: Gracious day.

367
00:13:10,343 --> 00:13:11,513
Patrick Leddin: see the
outline of this bruise.

368
00:13:11,703 --> 00:13:11,993
Dallas Burnett: Good

369
00:13:12,168 --> 00:13:12,768
Patrick Leddin: yeah, that still

370
00:13:12,843 --> 00:13:13,123
Dallas Burnett: gracious.

371
00:13:13,128 --> 00:13:14,238
Patrick Leddin: me a little bit of hassle.

372
00:13:14,268 --> 00:13:16,488
Right now I'm dealing with,
three bulging discs in my neck

373
00:13:16,523 --> 00:13:16,743
Dallas Burnett: Oh

374
00:13:16,788 --> 00:13:18,258
Patrick Leddin: and it's
been, you know, 25 years.

375
00:13:18,258 --> 00:13:18,438
But

376
00:13:18,443 --> 00:13:18,663
Dallas Burnett: man.

377
00:13:18,721 --> 00:13:20,311
Patrick Leddin: it turns out
the guy who I was tangled up

378
00:13:20,311 --> 00:13:21,691
with was one of my soldiers.

379
00:13:22,066 --> 00:13:22,876
Which I didn't know because

380
00:13:22,916 --> 00:13:23,136
Dallas Burnett: Oh.

381
00:13:23,236 --> 00:13:24,946
Patrick Leddin: you're all
mixed in these planes and stuff.

382
00:13:25,286 --> 00:13:27,416
so yeah, it was Corporal Davidson
was his name at the time.

383
00:13:27,416 --> 00:13:27,536
Yeah.

384
00:13:27,586 --> 00:13:31,196
so anyway, what that taught me is, a
couple things like, you can't prepare

385
00:13:31,196 --> 00:13:33,176
for every crisis or every disruption.

386
00:13:33,926 --> 00:13:35,996
that's one of the biggest challenges
we deal with right now is that.

387
00:13:36,476 --> 00:13:38,686
Tomorrow, the world can be
different and there's no playbook.

388
00:13:38,841 --> 00:13:39,061
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

389
00:13:39,196 --> 00:13:40,936
Patrick Leddin: in that particular
case, there was a playbook.

390
00:13:40,936 --> 00:13:44,446
I knew the process to follow, and I
trusted what I'd been taught to do.

391
00:13:44,716 --> 00:13:47,296
I tried to keep myself
as calm as possible.

392
00:13:47,506 --> 00:13:49,636
It wasn't the first time I'd
ever jumped out of a plane.

393
00:13:49,636 --> 00:13:50,716
So you talk about resilience.

394
00:13:50,716 --> 00:13:54,496
Resilience in my opinion, isn't built
by like, get in the room for two hours.

395
00:13:54,496 --> 00:13:55,396
We're gonna teach about resilience.

396
00:13:55,396 --> 00:13:56,356
You're gonna come out, you're gonna be

397
00:13:56,611 --> 00:13:57,271
Dallas Burnett: No.

398
00:13:57,271 --> 00:13:57,281
No.

399
00:13:57,316 --> 00:14:00,316
Patrick Leddin: you build up resilience by
getting lots of reps. And getting knocked

400
00:14:00,316 --> 00:14:01,846
down and getting back up again and again.

401
00:14:01,846 --> 00:14:03,811
And you start to learn
okay, I survived that.

402
00:14:03,811 --> 00:14:05,191
I learned something, I can get better.

403
00:14:05,521 --> 00:14:08,401
So if it had been my very first jump,
I don't know if it would've got me back

404
00:14:08,401 --> 00:14:12,361
in an airplane, but because it was like,
probably like my 40th at that point,

405
00:14:12,361 --> 00:14:13,726
I was like, yeah, I keep doing it.

406
00:14:13,966 --> 00:14:16,306
The only time I was ever like,
nervous jumping outta a plane,

407
00:14:16,306 --> 00:14:19,276
honestly was probably my last
jump because, it's your last

408
00:14:19,441 --> 00:14:20,281
Dallas Burnett: Oh, right.

409
00:14:20,296 --> 00:14:21,826
Patrick Leddin: you know,
something could go bad type of

410
00:14:21,931 --> 00:14:22,411
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

411
00:14:22,456 --> 00:14:23,766
Patrick Leddin: but somebody
asked me one time like.

412
00:14:24,576 --> 00:14:25,446
She went to ranger school.

413
00:14:25,446 --> 00:14:26,496
What was it like to go to ranger school?

414
00:14:26,496 --> 00:14:28,836
And I'm like, well, I didn't get
up outta bed one day as a teenager.

415
00:14:28,841 --> 00:14:29,916
I'm like, I'm gonna go to ranger school.

416
00:14:30,256 --> 00:14:31,606
you work your way toward it.

417
00:14:31,636 --> 00:14:32,696
And that's what we do in life,

418
00:14:32,921 --> 00:14:33,251
Dallas Burnett: Right.

419
00:14:33,266 --> 00:14:35,096
Patrick Leddin: People listening to
this podcast, if they look at where

420
00:14:35,096 --> 00:14:37,946
they're at right now, even if they
see lots of great things they want to

421
00:14:37,946 --> 00:14:39,496
achieve going forward, which is awesome,

422
00:14:40,046 --> 00:14:40,406
Dallas Burnett: sometimes

423
00:14:40,406 --> 00:14:41,636
Patrick Leddin: you can get
a little down on yourself

424
00:14:42,176 --> 00:14:43,496
just like, look at your resume.

425
00:14:43,996 --> 00:14:44,746
And not to print it out.

426
00:14:44,746 --> 00:14:47,806
Beautiful one, just like go through
your experiences, chart it out and

427
00:14:47,806 --> 00:14:50,146
you realize, man, I've had lots of
ups and downs and I figured that

428
00:14:50,146 --> 00:14:51,466
out and I can figure this out too.

429
00:14:51,656 --> 00:14:52,016
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

430
00:14:52,116 --> 00:14:53,986
Patrick Leddin: that's
what makes, life exciting

431
00:14:54,026 --> 00:14:54,476
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

432
00:14:54,586 --> 00:14:55,786
Patrick Leddin: to try to
figure these things out.

433
00:14:55,811 --> 00:14:59,261
Dallas Burnett: What's amazing to me is
that you got a boot mark on your neck

434
00:14:59,261 --> 00:15:03,991
at like the 40th jump, and you're like,
yeah, I got another, 20 or 30 left in me.

435
00:15:04,041 --> 00:15:05,211
that's incredible, man.

436
00:15:05,211 --> 00:15:06,551
That's, that is resilient.

437
00:15:06,746 --> 00:15:06,906
I mean.

438
00:15:07,001 --> 00:15:09,731
Patrick Leddin: know, I, it had to be
something like that because it happened

439
00:15:09,731 --> 00:15:14,561
around 1995 and I didn't stop jumping
until almost the end of 97, so, yeah.

440
00:15:14,756 --> 00:15:15,296
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

441
00:15:15,521 --> 00:15:15,581
Patrick Leddin: it

442
00:15:15,716 --> 00:15:17,876
Dallas Burnett: Just
moving, just keeping moving.

443
00:15:17,906 --> 00:15:18,566
that's awesome.

444
00:15:18,596 --> 00:15:22,136
Well, you know, I think this, that's
a great story about moving through

445
00:15:22,136 --> 00:15:23,456
that and just dealing with it.

446
00:15:23,456 --> 00:15:26,546
But, and I love how you talk about
resilience is that resilience is not

447
00:15:26,546 --> 00:15:30,476
something you necessarily get in a
class and it's more action oriented.

448
00:15:30,526 --> 00:15:34,256
it's like, I love how you said it, it's
getting the reps. And it's getting knocked

449
00:15:34,256 --> 00:15:36,066
down and getting, and getting back up.

450
00:15:36,096 --> 00:15:37,566
'cause I think that's exactly right.

451
00:15:37,616 --> 00:15:39,361
when we, have some type of failure.

452
00:15:39,631 --> 00:15:42,981
I love, uh, I was, we had a speaker
one time that was a Navy Seal and

453
00:15:42,981 --> 00:15:44,731
he said that he had a company.

454
00:15:45,326 --> 00:15:48,116
And it, and bless their heart,
I know whoever was coming into

455
00:15:48,116 --> 00:15:50,276
the company, they had no idea
what they were about to get into.

456
00:15:50,426 --> 00:15:53,246
They walk in and they're in this interview
and they push their resume across

457
00:15:53,246 --> 00:15:56,756
the table and he just like crumples
it up and throws it in the trash.

458
00:15:56,936 --> 00:15:58,766
And he is like, I don't care about this.

459
00:15:58,766 --> 00:16:00,746
This is your glossy whatever resume.

460
00:16:00,746 --> 00:16:01,106
He goes,

461
00:16:01,341 --> 00:16:01,821
Patrick Leddin: Oh,

462
00:16:02,036 --> 00:16:03,956
Dallas Burnett: I wanna
see your reverse resume.

463
00:16:03,956 --> 00:16:07,166
And then he slides his reverse
resume across the table, which is,

464
00:16:07,406 --> 00:16:10,596
you know, all the failures and the,
the things that didn't go your way

465
00:16:10,596 --> 00:16:11,646
and all the things that, you know.

466
00:16:11,731 --> 00:16:12,661
Patrick Leddin: That that's a great

467
00:16:12,846 --> 00:16:13,086
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

468
00:16:13,233 --> 00:16:15,663
Patrick Leddin: I call it the white space,
but it's the same type of thing I have.

469
00:16:15,663 --> 00:16:18,363
I've had students, especially
students, 18 to 22-year-old, you're

470
00:16:18,363 --> 00:16:19,863
trying to figure out like, what
do you wanna do in your career, in

471
00:16:19,863 --> 00:16:22,063
life, and, I think I'm like, I'm 57.

472
00:16:22,063 --> 00:16:22,183
I'm

473
00:16:22,328 --> 00:16:22,618
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

474
00:16:22,783 --> 00:16:23,113
Patrick Leddin: all that

475
00:16:23,168 --> 00:16:23,698
Dallas Burnett: Good luck.

476
00:16:23,798 --> 00:16:24,338
That's right.

477
00:16:24,393 --> 00:16:26,403
Patrick Leddin: you're trying to figure
this out and then you come across

478
00:16:26,733 --> 00:16:29,283
and some of them were like, attracted
to what I've done or what, whatever.

479
00:16:29,553 --> 00:16:31,903
And they might look at my resume on
LinkedIn and they'll say, can we grab

480
00:16:31,903 --> 00:16:34,183
a coffee and talk about like, how
did you do this, that, and the other.

481
00:16:34,183 --> 00:16:35,713
I'm like, guys, that's.

482
00:16:36,798 --> 00:16:37,088
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

483
00:16:37,318 --> 00:16:37,608
Yeah.

484
00:16:38,228 --> 00:16:41,093
Patrick Leddin: all the lessons are
learned in the white I didn't dare to

485
00:16:41,218 --> 00:16:41,728
Dallas Burnett: yeah,

486
00:16:41,923 --> 00:16:42,193
Patrick Leddin: of thing,

487
00:16:42,208 --> 00:16:42,928
Dallas Burnett: exactly.

488
00:16:43,003 --> 00:16:45,038
Patrick Leddin: world might, yeah, it,
maybe I should put 'em all out there.

489
00:16:45,038 --> 00:16:45,638
I love that idea.

490
00:16:45,638 --> 00:16:46,238
The reverse

491
00:16:46,403 --> 00:16:46,793
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

492
00:16:46,808 --> 00:16:48,488
Patrick Leddin: I said, the white
space, that's where all the lessons are

493
00:16:48,713 --> 00:16:49,223
Dallas Burnett: That's it.

494
00:16:49,313 --> 00:16:49,643
Yeah.

495
00:16:49,838 --> 00:16:52,208
Patrick Leddin: this award or achieved
this thing or whatever it might be.

496
00:16:52,208 --> 00:16:52,418
Yeah.

497
00:16:52,418 --> 00:16:53,948
I didn't do it like out the gate.

498
00:16:53,948 --> 00:16:55,558
In fact, I screwed up five times.

499
00:16:56,608 --> 00:16:58,708
and then I figured I was the
last person that would ever be

500
00:16:58,708 --> 00:16:59,728
recognized for whatever, and then it

501
00:17:00,103 --> 00:17:00,553
Dallas Burnett: Yes,

502
00:17:00,648 --> 00:17:01,368
Patrick Leddin: which is great too.

503
00:17:01,468 --> 00:17:01,588
Dallas Burnett: I.

504
00:17:01,688 --> 00:17:03,818
Patrick Leddin: Yeah, that's, I mean,
I, I told you, I started off saying

505
00:17:03,818 --> 00:17:05,228
I, I dropped outta community college.

506
00:17:05,228 --> 00:17:10,478
I mean, that's, that's not the best,
that's not the best, you know, but, but

507
00:17:10,478 --> 00:17:14,513
the funny thing was, I didn't talk about
that for, I didn't talk about it for 20

508
00:17:14,633 --> 00:17:15,173
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

509
00:17:15,233 --> 00:17:15,563
Right.

510
00:17:15,653 --> 00:17:16,673
Patrick Leddin: wife didn't know about it

511
00:17:16,673 --> 00:17:16,943
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

512
00:17:17,063 --> 00:17:17,453
Patrick Leddin: years,

513
00:17:17,573 --> 00:17:18,653
Dallas Burnett: Oh, wow.

514
00:17:18,713 --> 00:17:19,343
Patrick Leddin: she's like, what?

515
00:17:19,778 --> 00:17:21,908
I'm like, well, you know,
I like the pool hall a

516
00:17:22,073 --> 00:17:22,253
Dallas Burnett: Right.

517
00:17:22,268 --> 00:17:22,748
Patrick Leddin: was fun.

518
00:17:23,948 --> 00:17:25,538
That's not, that is true.

519
00:17:25,538 --> 00:17:25,598
The.

520
00:17:28,368 --> 00:17:29,708
Dallas Burnett: Well, I
think that's so true though.

521
00:17:29,928 --> 00:17:32,778
I think the resilient, there's a, you
know, there's a saying that you either

522
00:17:32,778 --> 00:17:34,938
win or you learn, there's no losing.

523
00:17:34,938 --> 00:17:35,688
You just win or learn.

524
00:17:35,688 --> 00:17:38,298
And I think that would be something
that would be akin to what you're saying

525
00:17:38,298 --> 00:17:40,968
because when we quote unquote, lose.

526
00:17:41,243 --> 00:17:42,893
If we learn, then it's not real loss.

527
00:17:42,893 --> 00:17:44,243
And that's really what keeps you moving.

528
00:17:44,243 --> 00:17:45,353
That's a resilient person.

529
00:17:45,353 --> 00:17:46,553
Because if I lose, yeah, okay.

530
00:17:46,553 --> 00:17:50,333
I lost, but I took this nugget with
me and that helps me next time.

531
00:17:50,333 --> 00:17:51,413
And then next time a little better.

532
00:17:51,413 --> 00:17:52,553
And then next time a little better.

533
00:17:52,608 --> 00:17:55,518
it's that kind of curiosity
and improvement and all of

534
00:17:55,518 --> 00:17:56,478
that kind of rolled into one.

535
00:17:56,478 --> 00:17:57,078
So I love that.

536
00:17:57,128 --> 00:17:59,568
Patrick Leddin: Although I do, although
you know that people say sometimes oh,

537
00:17:59,568 --> 00:18:00,678
there's no such thing as a problem.

538
00:18:00,678 --> 00:18:01,638
They're all opportunities.

539
00:18:02,088 --> 00:18:05,778
Sometimes there's problems sometimes I
don't wanna learn, I don't wanna grow,

540
00:18:05,778 --> 00:18:08,118
I don't wanna develop, I just wanna
take care of this thing and never see

541
00:18:08,168 --> 00:18:08,458
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

542
00:18:08,778 --> 00:18:09,918
Patrick Leddin: And,
and I'm okay with that.

543
00:18:10,153 --> 00:18:10,513
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

544
00:18:11,678 --> 00:18:13,448
Patrick Leddin: Like fixing
something around my house.

545
00:18:13,448 --> 00:18:14,738
I don't look to be a handyman.

546
00:18:14,798 --> 00:18:15,818
I'll pull out the YouTube video.

547
00:18:15,818 --> 00:18:17,108
I'll figure this thing
out, and I'll hopefully

548
00:18:17,293 --> 00:18:18,433
Dallas Burnett: Never have to do it again.

549
00:18:22,093 --> 00:18:22,513
Agreed.

550
00:18:24,479 --> 00:18:25,198
Agreed.

551
00:18:25,198 --> 00:18:26,398
Agreed a hundred percent.

552
00:18:26,608 --> 00:18:29,698
Well, I wanna talk a little bit about
your work because I think that, I was

553
00:18:29,698 --> 00:18:32,428
just listening to this clip the other
day and, it was very interesting and

554
00:18:32,428 --> 00:18:34,948
they were talking about the national
debt and they were essentially like,

555
00:18:35,558 --> 00:18:38,858
this is a problem that's so bad that it
ultimately, it's gonna be very difficult

556
00:18:38,858 --> 00:18:42,278
to solve because it just, because
of what would be necessary to do it.

557
00:18:42,278 --> 00:18:48,218
Unless we have this massive innovation
and, you know, robotics and AI essentially

558
00:18:48,218 --> 00:18:53,078
increase the productivity of our economy
so much that we can essentially outrun.

559
00:18:53,343 --> 00:18:54,963
the debt and the interest
in pay it all off.

560
00:18:54,963 --> 00:18:55,773
And I was like, wow.

561
00:18:55,773 --> 00:18:58,563
I don't know if that's like, I, I was
sitting there like, man, I don't know

562
00:18:58,563 --> 00:19:02,193
if I'm encouraged that there is a
way or if that is the way and that's

563
00:19:02,193 --> 00:19:05,793
just terrifying the way that there,
the way that they would position it.

564
00:19:05,836 --> 00:19:06,826
Patrick Leddin: we'll grow our way out of

565
00:19:06,961 --> 00:19:08,041
Dallas Burnett: Yes, yes.

566
00:19:08,146 --> 00:19:08,506
Yeah.

567
00:19:08,506 --> 00:19:10,531
And and they weren't saying
that we couldn't cut spending.

568
00:19:10,531 --> 00:19:12,646
It was just saying that the
likelihood that you can do that in

569
00:19:12,646 --> 00:19:15,596
this democracy is, would be tough
because of all the political stuff.

570
00:19:15,606 --> 00:19:17,346
but I was looking at that and I
was like, you know, we're having

571
00:19:17,346 --> 00:19:18,636
these conversations right now.

572
00:19:18,996 --> 00:19:22,926
Literal conversations that when I
was a kid was like, science fiction,

573
00:19:23,026 --> 00:19:25,876
we're creating, like, I don't know
that, the Star Trek with that guy,

574
00:19:25,876 --> 00:19:29,981
that was a robot data, you know, I
mean, like we're talking about, we're

575
00:19:29,981 --> 00:19:31,901
talking about that actually being real

576
00:19:32,051 --> 00:19:33,281
Patrick Leddin: talking
Star Trek, the next

577
00:19:33,416 --> 00:19:34,136
Dallas Burnett: The next Gen.

578
00:19:34,136 --> 00:19:36,596
It's not even the first, it's
not even the first Star Trek.

579
00:19:36,596 --> 00:19:37,856
It's the second Star Trek.

580
00:19:38,156 --> 00:19:38,516
So

581
00:19:38,686 --> 00:19:38,976
Patrick Leddin: Yeah.

582
00:19:39,096 --> 00:19:39,606
Dallas Burnett: that's coming.

583
00:19:39,606 --> 00:19:41,826
There's so many things coming to
reality right now, and I think that

584
00:19:41,826 --> 00:19:45,306
the speed of these things that people,
especially in the workforce leaders that

585
00:19:45,306 --> 00:19:48,976
they're trying to manage through and
lead through the speed of change it.

586
00:19:49,606 --> 00:19:53,836
We thought it accelerated in the last
20 years, but it's, it feels like it's

587
00:19:53,836 --> 00:19:55,906
picking up and getting even faster.

588
00:19:55,906 --> 00:19:58,966
And there's even more disruptions
with this AI technology and

589
00:19:58,966 --> 00:20:02,336
robotics coming out, even quantum,
computing and all these things.

590
00:20:02,336 --> 00:20:05,156
It's on the horizon that's not that
far off that, that are actually

591
00:20:05,341 --> 00:20:05,561
Patrick Leddin: Yep.

592
00:20:05,786 --> 00:20:06,416
Dallas Burnett: very quickly.

593
00:20:06,656 --> 00:20:11,136
So I thought this was a fantastic, your
work on in disruption, was so important

594
00:20:11,136 --> 00:20:13,836
and so relevant and timely because.

595
00:20:14,616 --> 00:20:17,676
It is exactly what a lot of
leaders are facing right now

596
00:20:17,676 --> 00:20:19,806
in their work and at home.

597
00:20:20,096 --> 00:20:22,316
and I think there's a lot of fear
that goes along with that, right?

598
00:20:22,316 --> 00:20:22,836
So people are.

599
00:20:24,091 --> 00:20:28,091
Wondering if the, if my job is, you know,
I think this, this last month a Amazon

600
00:20:28,091 --> 00:20:31,371
laid off a lot of workers and I'm, I mean,
I think that a lot of that has to do with

601
00:20:31,421 --> 00:20:35,721
some of them being able to be, replaced
by either robotics or AI or whatever.

602
00:20:35,721 --> 00:20:38,031
And so it's like people looking around,
kinda looking over their shoulder

603
00:20:38,031 --> 00:20:39,201
like, what am I supposed to do here?

604
00:20:39,201 --> 00:20:42,636
And yet this is an incredible opportunity
that we are on the cusp of, so I

605
00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:43,946
would love to just hear your thoughts.

606
00:20:43,946 --> 00:20:46,450
First of all, what inspired
you to write the book?

607
00:20:46,474 --> 00:20:46,924
Patrick Leddin: Oh, thanks.

608
00:20:46,924 --> 00:20:47,134
Yeah.

609
00:20:47,194 --> 00:20:51,334
So, um, when COVID hit, I imagine most
people on this have heard of that.

610
00:20:51,544 --> 00:20:55,774
When COVID hit at the, where I was
at the university and the chancellor

611
00:20:55,774 --> 00:20:57,124
sent out through his office a note.

612
00:20:57,764 --> 00:21:01,544
asking professors, if anybody's
willing to teach a class online up

613
00:21:01,544 --> 00:21:03,284
to a hundred students, let us know.

614
00:21:03,944 --> 00:21:06,794
And just to put that in perspective,
Vanderbilt wasn't teaching anything

615
00:21:06,794 --> 00:21:09,794
really online, and classes really
weren't a hundred people, right?

616
00:21:09,794 --> 00:21:09,884
So

617
00:21:09,939 --> 00:21:10,159
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

618
00:21:10,514 --> 00:21:10,754
Patrick Leddin: it.

619
00:21:10,814 --> 00:21:13,274
You go to Vanderbilt and you're gonna
sit in a class with 25 people and you're

620
00:21:13,274 --> 00:21:14,894
gonna be taught by a professor, not a ta.

621
00:21:14,894 --> 00:21:16,544
It's a very, you know, kind of experience.

622
00:21:16,964 --> 00:21:18,899
And, so I thought, this is
an interesting opportunity.

623
00:21:18,899 --> 00:21:21,389
I'd like to teach a class on
leading business through crisis.

624
00:21:21,734 --> 00:21:23,084
It was something I was interested in.

625
00:21:23,084 --> 00:21:25,464
I'd done some work in, I
wanted to do that class.

626
00:21:25,554 --> 00:21:29,004
It seemed like a topic that was relevant,
certainly based upon going into COVID.

627
00:21:29,334 --> 00:21:30,774
So they approved it and
I started teaching it.

628
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:32,899
then COVID, ended petered out.

629
00:21:33,169 --> 00:21:34,399
We came back, whatever you wanna say.

630
00:21:34,459 --> 00:21:34,669
Yeah.

631
00:21:34,699 --> 00:21:35,629
With COVID, nobody wants to say

632
00:21:35,694 --> 00:21:36,304
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, yeah,

633
00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:36,559
Patrick Leddin: show up

634
00:21:36,654 --> 00:21:36,944
Dallas Burnett: yeah.

635
00:21:37,054 --> 00:21:39,424
Patrick Leddin: but we got back in the
classroom and the class kept going.

636
00:21:39,424 --> 00:21:44,264
Well, unbeknownst to me, a gentleman
named Michael Ainsley who had.

637
00:21:44,499 --> 00:21:47,379
Michael Ainsley was the former CEO
of Sotheby's, the auction house.

638
00:21:47,504 --> 00:21:48,134
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

639
00:21:48,159 --> 00:21:49,389
Patrick Leddin: a Vanderbilt alum.

640
00:21:49,629 --> 00:21:52,929
He had a crazy ride because he was
on the board of Lehman Brothers

641
00:21:52,929 --> 00:21:54,309
when Lehman Brothers collapsed.

642
00:21:54,389 --> 00:21:55,264
Dallas Burnett: Oh my

643
00:21:55,269 --> 00:21:56,079
Patrick Leddin: having to deal with that.

644
00:21:56,224 --> 00:21:56,464
Dallas Burnett: goodness.

645
00:21:56,569 --> 00:21:59,629
Patrick Leddin: he's a Vanderbilt alum
who was asked by someone else to go

646
00:21:59,629 --> 00:22:01,669
speak at a class at Brown University.

647
00:22:02,059 --> 00:22:04,069
And Michael went up and
spoke at Brown University.

648
00:22:04,069 --> 00:22:05,749
It was a class about
dealing with adversity.

649
00:22:06,049 --> 00:22:08,419
And when that, when he was done with
that, he came back and he said to

650
00:22:08,419 --> 00:22:11,179
the Chancellor at Vanderbilt, we
should have this class at Vanderbilt.

651
00:22:11,399 --> 00:22:12,359
These guest speakers.

652
00:22:12,779 --> 00:22:15,529
And then have you ever seen
that Plinko game on, on prices?

653
00:22:15,709 --> 00:22:15,929
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

654
00:22:16,154 --> 00:22:17,624
Patrick Leddin: if people aren't
familiar with it, you're in these,

655
00:22:17,684 --> 00:22:20,234
you, I guess you guess on prizes
and you get the price right?

656
00:22:20,234 --> 00:22:24,164
And you get these chips kind of, um,
you know, these discs and you climb

657
00:22:24,164 --> 00:22:26,954
up to the top of this board and you
drop the disc in and it kind of bing,

658
00:22:26,954 --> 00:22:29,684
bing, bing binging, pops through the
pegs on the board and lands in a slot.

659
00:22:29,684 --> 00:22:32,054
And sometimes you get money and sometimes
you get no money or whatever it might be.

660
00:22:32,054 --> 00:22:32,174
It's

661
00:22:32,199 --> 00:22:32,469
Dallas Burnett: Right.

662
00:22:32,594 --> 00:22:33,464
Patrick Leddin: kind of a random thing.

663
00:22:33,854 --> 00:22:36,764
I felt like it was a little game of
Plinko that happened because here I

664
00:22:36,764 --> 00:22:38,294
am, a professor running a program.

665
00:22:38,294 --> 00:22:39,434
Tom, the bottom, I'm at the bottom.

666
00:22:39,614 --> 00:22:43,574
The board and the chancellor drops
this Plinko chip in and it bing,

667
00:22:43,574 --> 00:22:44,564
bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.

668
00:22:44,564 --> 00:22:48,014
And it lands on me because they said, oh
my gosh, you wanna do class on adversity?

669
00:22:48,014 --> 00:22:49,694
This guy does a class on disruption.

670
00:22:49,934 --> 00:22:51,184
Why partner you two together?

671
00:22:51,564 --> 00:22:54,594
partnered with Michael Ansley and the
idea was we'll do one section every

672
00:22:54,594 --> 00:22:58,164
semester where we have guest speakers
come in for the entire session.

673
00:22:58,614 --> 00:22:58,884
So.

674
00:22:59,664 --> 00:23:00,684
It was, it was really interesting.

675
00:23:00,684 --> 00:23:04,314
So one example I would give is we
would have Doug Parker come in,

676
00:23:04,314 --> 00:23:07,354
who was the chairman at the time
of, CEO of American Airlines.

677
00:23:08,074 --> 00:23:10,924
come in with Sarah, Nelson,
who was the, president of the

678
00:23:10,924 --> 00:23:12,184
Flight Attendants Association.

679
00:23:12,784 --> 00:23:15,814
So you got labor and management coming
in, in front of 25 students to talk

680
00:23:15,814 --> 00:23:17,134
about how they dealt with crisis.

681
00:23:17,224 --> 00:23:19,324
Just really interesting conversations.

682
00:23:19,324 --> 00:23:19,564
Right?

683
00:23:19,924 --> 00:23:23,939
And one gentleman who joined us one class
session was James Patterson, the author.

684
00:23:24,724 --> 00:23:24,944
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

685
00:23:25,074 --> 00:23:27,264
Patrick Leddin: James Patterson
started out by telling his story.

686
00:23:27,264 --> 00:23:29,904
He said to the students, he said, first
of all, he said, are you living a good

687
00:23:29,904 --> 00:23:33,624
life or do you feel like you're on one
treadmill just to get another treadmill?

688
00:23:33,624 --> 00:23:35,064
Just to get another treadmill just to.

689
00:23:35,874 --> 00:23:38,484
it up, you know what's going,
you know how you see your life.

690
00:23:38,484 --> 00:23:40,134
And he said, I'm, he said,
I'm living a good life.

691
00:23:40,554 --> 00:23:41,934
And here's how I went about doing it.

692
00:23:42,594 --> 00:23:44,274
And he talked about how

693
00:23:44,334 --> 00:23:44,694
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

694
00:23:45,834 --> 00:23:48,204
Patrick Leddin: people don't typically
know this, but he was the CEO at one

695
00:23:48,204 --> 00:23:52,314
point of Jay Walter Thompson, which is the
largest, advertising agency at the time.

696
00:23:52,644 --> 00:23:54,399
He was the CEO of that at 38 years old.

697
00:23:54,849 --> 00:23:55,479
Dallas Burnett: Oh my

698
00:23:55,614 --> 00:23:55,974
Patrick Leddin: creative

699
00:23:56,019 --> 00:23:56,589
Dallas Burnett: goodness

700
00:23:57,054 --> 00:23:57,714
Patrick Leddin: or something like that.

701
00:23:58,059 --> 00:23:59,109
Dallas Burnett: I did not know that.

702
00:23:59,344 --> 00:23:59,564
Wow.

703
00:23:59,859 --> 00:24:00,789
Patrick Leddin: Yeah, getting the job.

704
00:24:00,789 --> 00:24:03,189
He said, I disrupted their whole
process because you had to bring a

705
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:07,539
portfolio of ads that you make up
in and drop the portfolio off, and

706
00:24:07,539 --> 00:24:09,909
they review it and they see if they
like it or not for an interview.

707
00:24:10,179 --> 00:24:12,969
He brought in one, one week, then he
made up a whole different one and brought

708
00:24:12,969 --> 00:24:15,729
it the second week and then a whole
different one and brought the third week.

709
00:24:15,939 --> 00:24:18,579
He's like, thankfully they hired me
on the fourth week, but he disrupted

710
00:24:18,579 --> 00:24:23,689
their whole hiring process He took
over as CEO and he kinda had the itch.

711
00:24:23,689 --> 00:24:24,769
He wasn't fulfilled by it.

712
00:24:25,189 --> 00:24:27,559
He had been writing something on the
side and he decided, you know what?

713
00:24:27,564 --> 00:24:29,629
I'm gonna, I'm gonna quit the
role of CEO of this company,

714
00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:31,519
which he'd been very successful.

715
00:24:31,519 --> 00:24:33,799
I mean, James Patterson wrote
the line, I'm a toys us kid,

716
00:24:34,144 --> 00:24:34,714
Dallas Burnett: Oh my

717
00:24:34,729 --> 00:24:35,089
Patrick Leddin: he's like

718
00:24:35,314 --> 00:24:35,824
Dallas Burnett: gosh.

719
00:24:35,884 --> 00:24:35,914
Oh

720
00:24:35,929 --> 00:24:36,679
Patrick Leddin: at advertising,

721
00:24:36,844 --> 00:24:37,624
Dallas Burnett: my gosh.

722
00:24:37,939 --> 00:24:38,239
Patrick Leddin: writing.

723
00:24:38,419 --> 00:24:38,689
Yeah.

724
00:24:38,689 --> 00:24:41,789
So he jumped out of the, advertising
world and went all in on writing,

725
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:43,799
and then he just disrupted writing.

726
00:24:44,009 --> 00:24:47,519
He got in there and he said, why
do we only write one, book a year?

727
00:24:47,924 --> 00:24:48,164
Why?

728
00:24:48,224 --> 00:24:49,154
Why is that the rule?

729
00:24:49,274 --> 00:24:50,264
Why can't we do several?

730
00:24:50,624 --> 00:24:52,274
Why do we have to only write in one genre?

731
00:24:52,364 --> 00:24:53,354
Why can't I write in several?

732
00:24:53,534 --> 00:24:55,514
Why is it wrong to write
with different authors?

733
00:24:55,514 --> 00:24:56,924
Why can't I write with lots of partners?

734
00:24:57,374 --> 00:25:00,224
And he just did all, and now he's,
I mean, his numbers are staggering.

735
00:25:00,254 --> 00:25:02,504
Over 425 million books sold.

736
00:25:04,384 --> 00:25:05,399
Dallas Burnett: I had no idea.

737
00:25:05,534 --> 00:25:07,094
Patrick Leddin: you say nobody
gets wealthy writing books?

738
00:25:07,094 --> 00:25:11,634
Well, there's one, him and JK Rowling,
he, writes with multiple authors.

739
00:25:11,694 --> 00:25:13,314
He, writes in multiple genres.

740
00:25:13,674 --> 00:25:14,964
I think he put out nine books this year.

741
00:25:15,204 --> 00:25:15,804
Dallas Burnett: What.

742
00:25:16,104 --> 00:25:18,264
Patrick Leddin: from working with
him, yeah, with working with him,

743
00:25:18,354 --> 00:25:19,914
he's very engaged in all nine books.

744
00:25:19,914 --> 00:25:20,604
It's pretty wild.

745
00:25:20,904 --> 00:25:22,974
So anyway, he went through this
whole thing in the presentation.

746
00:25:22,974 --> 00:25:24,474
He called it the Power of Disruption.

747
00:25:25,194 --> 00:25:26,119
And when it was over, I was like.

748
00:25:26,829 --> 00:25:27,699
That's really interesting.

749
00:25:27,699 --> 00:25:33,889
I would love to dig more into how do
people take a curve ball thrown at them

750
00:25:35,419 --> 00:25:38,389
approach it, at least from a positive
perspective instead of saying, oh

751
00:25:38,389 --> 00:25:40,099
gosh, this is gonna destroy everything.

752
00:25:40,259 --> 00:25:40,479
Dallas Burnett: Mm.

753
00:25:40,729 --> 00:25:42,709
Patrick Leddin: of that, they look
at it and go, is this fertile ground?

754
00:25:42,874 --> 00:25:43,474
Dallas Burnett: Mm

755
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:44,449
Patrick Leddin: cool that could happen

756
00:25:44,524 --> 00:25:44,974
Dallas Burnett: mm.

757
00:25:45,139 --> 00:25:46,509
Patrick Leddin: So I approach them and.

758
00:25:47,439 --> 00:25:48,159
Note to everyone.

759
00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:48,849
Don't do what I do.

760
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:49,479
I did.

761
00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:52,749
So I sent him a note that basically
said, I like you, you like me?

762
00:25:52,749 --> 00:25:53,679
Let's write a book together.

763
00:25:55,384 --> 00:25:55,724
He did.

764
00:25:56,839 --> 00:25:57,949
he didn't answer that note.

765
00:25:58,229 --> 00:26:00,989
10, 10 days, 10 days later,
I gave it a second shot.

766
00:26:00,989 --> 00:26:02,849
And this time I was a little
bit more like, here's why I

767
00:26:02,849 --> 00:26:03,749
think it would make sense.

768
00:26:03,749 --> 00:26:08,189
And when I started my business years ago,
um, I, like I mentioned Franklin Covey,

769
00:26:08,189 --> 00:26:10,019
I got really close to them very early on.

770
00:26:10,019 --> 00:26:11,999
They were, I did a lot of
contract work with them.

771
00:26:11,999 --> 00:26:13,259
They were a client of mine.

772
00:26:13,499 --> 00:26:15,359
I had a chance to work with
Steven Covey, who wrote Seven

773
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:16,319
Habits, highly Effective People,

774
00:26:16,624 --> 00:26:16,844
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

775
00:26:16,959 --> 00:26:17,709
Patrick Leddin: get a little close to him.

776
00:26:17,709 --> 00:26:20,319
So I saw how it worked and I was
able to explain like, here's what

777
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:22,449
could happen if we did a book
in this space and did it well.

778
00:26:22,714 --> 00:26:25,384
It could impact a lot of
people, et cetera, et cetera.

779
00:26:25,564 --> 00:26:26,704
And he said, okay, let's do it.

780
00:26:26,934 --> 00:26:28,404
then it was a little bit
like, okay, let's do it.

781
00:26:28,404 --> 00:26:29,094
What does that mean?

782
00:26:29,094 --> 00:26:31,014
And trying to figure out the
dance for the partner is always

783
00:26:31,144 --> 00:26:31,364
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

784
00:26:31,644 --> 00:26:34,964
Patrick Leddin: And us about 10 months
to get the, the outline where we felt

785
00:26:35,114 --> 00:26:35,534
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

786
00:26:36,044 --> 00:26:36,464
Patrick Leddin: and.

787
00:26:36,709 --> 00:26:40,019
About eight months into working on
that, I, I approached, I went back

788
00:26:40,019 --> 00:26:42,899
to the Chancellor at Vanderbilt
and I, this is kind of crazy.

789
00:26:42,959 --> 00:26:43,679
this is crazy.

790
00:26:44,009 --> 00:26:47,234
So I went to the Chancellor at Vanderbilt,
which I built a little bit of rapport

791
00:26:47,234 --> 00:26:51,254
with him, but in general, you kind of
avoid the chancellor, I mean, right.

792
00:26:51,644 --> 00:26:52,754
You don't, you don't
go, you don't go there.

793
00:26:52,844 --> 00:26:53,864
You don't go there unless you need to.

794
00:26:54,284 --> 00:26:56,929
But I thought, I think I've got
this interesting opportunity.

795
00:26:57,664 --> 00:26:59,884
So I went to the Chancellor,
and this is exactly what I said.

796
00:27:00,214 --> 00:27:05,314
I said, chancellor, dear Meyer, I have
a 15%, one 5% chance of writing a book

797
00:27:05,314 --> 00:27:06,664
with the world's bestselling author.

798
00:27:07,024 --> 00:27:11,974
If you give me what I want, it'll be a
50% chance, and if I do what I promise you

799
00:27:11,974 --> 00:27:17,014
I'm going to do every month, the chance
of that happening will go up two to 3%.

800
00:27:17,794 --> 00:27:18,394
He's what do you need?

801
00:27:18,394 --> 00:27:20,194
I said, I need some funding
for a research team.

802
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:21,979
And he said, you got it.

803
00:27:22,219 --> 00:27:27,079
So tech, I guess at that moment, I walked
out the door with 50%, now I promised to

804
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:30,169
him that I was gonna do two to 3% work
every month and move it toward a hundred.

805
00:27:30,499 --> 00:27:33,679
If you take two to 3% and average
those out, that's obviously

806
00:27:33,679 --> 00:27:34,429
two point a half percent.

807
00:27:34,699 --> 00:27:40,069
If you had two and a half percent every
month to that 50% the month it hit 100%.

808
00:27:40,189 --> 00:27:41,029
We sold the book.

809
00:27:41,779 --> 00:27:43,064
Dallas Burnett: Good gracious day.

810
00:27:43,974 --> 00:27:44,504
Hey, hey, that's

811
00:27:44,569 --> 00:27:45,049
Patrick Leddin: you know, there's a

812
00:27:45,199 --> 00:27:46,549
Dallas Burnett: a heck
of estimator right there.

813
00:27:46,579 --> 00:27:48,589
Patrick Leddin: in, there's a
lot of value in spreadsheets.

814
00:27:48,589 --> 00:27:49,909
There's also a lot of
value in the back of the

815
00:27:50,209 --> 00:27:50,449
Dallas Burnett: Yeah,

816
00:27:50,509 --> 00:27:52,309
Patrick Leddin: and just
lead it to your experience.

817
00:27:53,179 --> 00:27:53,359
yeah.

818
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,349
So that was kind of crazy.

819
00:27:54,579 --> 00:27:57,129
obviously I made an appointment with
him and said, Hey, here's the math a

820
00:27:57,129 --> 00:27:58,659
hundred percent we just sold the book.

821
00:27:58,749 --> 00:27:59,709
Dallas Burnett: that's ins.

822
00:27:59,739 --> 00:27:59,919
Patrick Leddin: yeah.

823
00:28:00,189 --> 00:28:01,599
Dallas Burnett: That's incredible.

824
00:28:01,719 --> 00:28:02,589
Oh my gosh.

825
00:28:02,657 --> 00:28:05,387
Patrick Leddin: that project we worked
on, it took about two and a half years,

826
00:28:05,387 --> 00:28:09,687
two and a half, three years of research
where we went out and we interviewed, 350

827
00:28:09,687 --> 00:28:11,487
people and you do long form interviews.

828
00:28:11,487 --> 00:28:11,667
You know

829
00:28:11,682 --> 00:28:11,802
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

830
00:28:11,937 --> 00:28:13,317
Patrick Leddin: it takes to 350 people,

831
00:28:13,337 --> 00:28:13,557
Dallas Burnett: oh,

832
00:28:13,557 --> 00:28:13,857
Patrick Leddin: took a

833
00:28:14,017 --> 00:28:15,072
Dallas Burnett: that's a long time.

834
00:28:15,567 --> 00:28:16,477
Patrick Leddin: and doing them, and then.

835
00:28:16,672 --> 00:28:19,552
Going through the transcripts and
coding it and trying to figure it out.

836
00:28:19,552 --> 00:28:22,072
We're trying to figure out, obviously when
you're going through these people, you're

837
00:28:22,072 --> 00:28:23,572
looking for people who do certain things.

838
00:28:23,572 --> 00:28:27,502
People who've had certain experiences who
have dealt with adversity or challenges.

839
00:28:27,832 --> 00:28:31,052
And then we went through those and we
started to realize what's the pattern?

840
00:28:31,347 --> 00:28:32,787
What did they tend to do

841
00:28:32,807 --> 00:28:33,257
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

842
00:28:33,387 --> 00:28:35,167
Patrick Leddin: and what
strengths did they have?

843
00:28:35,637 --> 00:28:37,077
Are there consistent strengths?

844
00:28:37,077 --> 00:28:38,697
And so that's what the
book is really about.

845
00:28:38,697 --> 00:28:42,597
It's a book of their, ended up being
a book of 32 of those 350 stories.

846
00:28:43,017 --> 00:28:44,307
But it's not just a book of story.

847
00:28:44,307 --> 00:28:44,757
I mean, books of

848
00:28:44,877 --> 00:28:45,117
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

849
00:28:45,117 --> 00:28:45,597
Patrick Leddin: great.

850
00:28:46,347 --> 00:28:48,807
but each story advances a, an idea.

851
00:28:49,222 --> 00:28:53,212
like the first story in the book is all
about understanding the fire inside you

852
00:28:53,572 --> 00:28:56,542
or in your team or in your organization,
like understanding kinda your purpose.

853
00:28:56,542 --> 00:28:56,962
Dallas Burnett: hmm.

854
00:28:56,962 --> 00:29:00,282
Patrick Leddin: And we used a story
there about a young lady who, became the

855
00:29:00,282 --> 00:29:03,012
first black, puppeteer, on Sesame Street.

856
00:29:03,957 --> 00:29:07,037
how she got a message during
COVID and said, Hey, are you

857
00:29:07,037 --> 00:29:08,387
still interested in doing this?

858
00:29:08,537 --> 00:29:10,127
And she's like, oh my gosh, yes.

859
00:29:10,367 --> 00:29:13,367
And how she, with two young kids who
still figured out how do I do this?

860
00:29:13,367 --> 00:29:15,887
During COVID with my two kids,
trained to be a puppeteer.

861
00:29:15,887 --> 00:29:17,207
And I actually had dinner with her.

862
00:29:17,207 --> 00:29:19,877
I saw her this past Saturday,
and I said, Hey, I'm gonna be

863
00:29:19,877 --> 00:29:21,212
in New York on x, y, Z day.

864
00:29:21,212 --> 00:29:22,367
And she said, we're gonna be there too.

865
00:29:22,577 --> 00:29:24,377
She said, you should come
by and visit Sesame Street.

866
00:29:24,377 --> 00:29:25,457
So I might get to go see

867
00:29:25,667 --> 00:29:27,632
Dallas Burnett: Oh, that's so cool.

868
00:29:27,992 --> 00:29:29,552
Oh, that, I would love to do that.

869
00:29:29,552 --> 00:29:31,502
that's a great visit right there, man.

870
00:29:31,907 --> 00:29:34,222
Patrick Leddin: So there's lots, and
every story kind of builds on the idea.

871
00:29:34,222 --> 00:29:36,987
It introduces the mindsets and
the roles you could take on,

872
00:29:36,987 --> 00:29:38,097
the behaviors you could take on.

873
00:29:38,457 --> 00:29:42,457
And some of the stories are, really
well-known people that we interviewed.

874
00:29:42,457 --> 00:29:43,927
There's a few of them in there
where people are like, oh,

875
00:29:43,927 --> 00:29:44,977
I kind of know that person.

876
00:29:45,157 --> 00:29:47,527
But a lot of them are people
you've never heard of before.

877
00:29:47,647 --> 00:29:50,437
So I say it's like household
names to un unsung heroes.

878
00:29:50,797 --> 00:29:52,387
'cause there's a lot of people,
it's like, I didn't know that

879
00:29:52,387 --> 00:29:53,167
person, but that's really

880
00:29:53,332 --> 00:29:54,742
Dallas Burnett: I think that's
really good though, because

881
00:29:54,742 --> 00:29:56,452
that makes it relatable, right?

882
00:29:56,452 --> 00:30:02,952
So if you're only reading about CEOs and
Hollywood actors and the person that maybe

883
00:30:03,102 --> 00:30:06,402
doesn't see themselves or put themselves
in that category may just disconnect.

884
00:30:06,402 --> 00:30:09,642
But if you have that mix of this
is people that's just from every

885
00:30:09,642 --> 00:30:12,752
day to, to famous or, influential.

886
00:30:12,752 --> 00:30:15,772
I mean, I think that just makes it
more, It just makes it more tangible

887
00:30:15,772 --> 00:30:18,592
for everybody, for all the readers,
and it's very interesting too.

888
00:30:18,842 --> 00:30:21,752
Patrick Leddin: mi you want a couple
ones that are like really aspir,

889
00:30:21,932 --> 00:30:24,002
like they're all aspirational in
a way, but some of they're like,

890
00:30:24,032 --> 00:30:26,882
wow, that is, I'd be reaching for
the stars if I was that person.

891
00:30:27,332 --> 00:30:29,222
And then some of them are
like, I can relate to that.

892
00:30:29,362 --> 00:30:29,842
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

893
00:30:30,122 --> 00:30:30,692
Patrick Leddin: situation.

894
00:30:30,872 --> 00:30:32,342
You wanna mix them in there.

895
00:30:32,342 --> 00:30:35,182
And that's where the research team
is really great at helping me think

896
00:30:35,182 --> 00:30:37,842
through Which one will work here and
then run it by Jim and see what he

897
00:30:37,842 --> 00:30:39,702
think Patterson, see what he thinks.

898
00:30:39,702 --> 00:30:42,482
And and just really trying to
figure out, 'cause the other side

899
00:30:42,482 --> 00:30:45,642
of the coin is like, gosh, you still
have, 318 really great stories out

900
00:30:45,717 --> 00:30:46,617
Dallas Burnett: Oh wow.

901
00:30:46,712 --> 00:30:50,072
Patrick Leddin: all of them informed
the book in various ways, but just

902
00:30:50,072 --> 00:30:51,062
all of 'em couldn't make it in,

903
00:30:51,062 --> 00:30:51,602
Dallas Burnett: So

904
00:30:51,722 --> 00:30:52,232
Patrick Leddin: unfortunately.

905
00:30:52,262 --> 00:30:54,092
Dallas Burnett: ask you a bit,
'cause whenever I interview,

906
00:30:54,122 --> 00:30:57,512
especially in this format, I'm
always, there's always surprises.

907
00:30:57,512 --> 00:30:59,967
Like in these conversations, you just,
you come away and you're like, ha.

908
00:31:00,342 --> 00:31:03,532
I did not know that that
was An unexpected, surprise.

909
00:31:03,532 --> 00:31:07,242
So what was something out of those
interviews that would you say in going

910
00:31:07,242 --> 00:31:10,092
through this process and looking at
all the transcripts and reviewing

911
00:31:10,092 --> 00:31:12,882
all this, was there anything that
jumps out in your mind that was the

912
00:31:12,972 --> 00:31:15,222
biggest surprise out of this project?

913
00:31:16,512 --> 00:31:17,502
Patrick Leddin: Yeah,
there's a few things.

914
00:31:17,502 --> 00:31:22,532
kind of more macro thing is when we were
going through the process of trying to

915
00:31:22,532 --> 00:31:25,892
figure out the behaviors, so what are
the behaviors that these people exhibit?

916
00:31:26,222 --> 00:31:28,862
We didn't find a tight list of three.

917
00:31:29,022 --> 00:31:29,242
Dallas Burnett: Mm.

918
00:31:29,407 --> 00:31:30,997
Patrick Leddin: didn't find if you
do these three things, you're gonna

919
00:31:30,997 --> 00:31:32,587
be a great positive disruptor in the

920
00:31:32,652 --> 00:31:32,872
Dallas Burnett: Mm

921
00:31:33,187 --> 00:31:36,367
Patrick Leddin: What we found is
about 16, we not about, we found 16

922
00:31:36,367 --> 00:31:38,047
behaviors that we kept showing up.

923
00:31:38,047 --> 00:31:38,767
They kind of rose to the

924
00:31:39,107 --> 00:31:39,497
Dallas Burnett: mm.

925
00:31:39,577 --> 00:31:41,937
Patrick Leddin: What's interesting
is no one was killing on all of them.

926
00:31:42,547 --> 00:31:45,187
some people were good at like one,
seven and nine, and some people

927
00:31:45,187 --> 00:31:46,687
were good, good at two, 10 and

928
00:31:46,907 --> 00:31:47,687
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

929
00:31:48,457 --> 00:31:50,887
Patrick Leddin: and there
was no magic combination.

930
00:31:50,887 --> 00:31:53,107
If you had this one, you
were guaranteed to nail it.

931
00:31:53,602 --> 00:31:55,582
what I took away from
that really was that.

932
00:31:55,832 --> 00:31:58,322
All of us have some positive
disruptor strengths.

933
00:31:58,412 --> 00:32:00,992
And these are things like a vision.

934
00:32:01,312 --> 00:32:03,442
looking at the brutal
reality of where you stand.

935
00:32:03,742 --> 00:32:05,212
That's one thing to like cast a vision.

936
00:32:05,362 --> 00:32:07,372
It's another thing to go, okay,
I wanna be a basketball player

937
00:32:07,372 --> 00:32:09,412
in the NBA, but you know, I'm 57

938
00:32:09,462 --> 00:32:09,752
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

939
00:32:09,832 --> 00:32:10,402
Patrick Leddin: five eight.

940
00:32:10,402 --> 00:32:11,182
That's not gonna happen.

941
00:32:11,182 --> 00:32:11,422
Right?

942
00:32:11,812 --> 00:32:13,642
But some people are good at one,
some people are good at others,

943
00:32:13,642 --> 00:32:14,602
some people are good at both.

944
00:32:14,882 --> 00:32:18,842
another behavior would be something like,
they stand firm in the face of doubters.

945
00:32:19,187 --> 00:32:21,497
When people tell them they can't
do it, they're like holding from

946
00:32:21,497 --> 00:32:22,397
yeah, I can make this happen.

947
00:32:22,787 --> 00:32:24,527
Other people had really good instincts.

948
00:32:24,527 --> 00:32:25,427
They could trust their guts.

949
00:32:25,427 --> 00:32:27,707
Other, some people you would not
wanna go to Vegas with, they don't

950
00:32:27,737 --> 00:32:27,797
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

951
00:32:27,857 --> 00:32:28,667
Patrick Leddin: good instincts at all.

952
00:32:28,997 --> 00:32:29,207
Right?

953
00:32:29,387 --> 00:32:34,107
So, so the neat thing about it is we
all, I would argue that everybody,

954
00:32:34,107 --> 00:32:36,687
'cause I've talked to a lot of
audiences, not go through the behaviors

955
00:32:36,687 --> 00:32:38,427
with them and they'll raise their
hands at the ones they think they're

956
00:32:38,427 --> 00:32:41,817
strong at and they all show up.

957
00:32:42,192 --> 00:32:43,482
Different people have different things.

958
00:32:43,632 --> 00:32:44,862
So I think that's one
of the beauties of this.

959
00:32:45,012 --> 00:32:48,012
and it isn't like a situation where
it's like, oh, if you violate one of

960
00:32:48,012 --> 00:32:49,302
these, you blow up the whole thing.

961
00:32:49,422 --> 00:32:51,732
It's like, no, some of these people
violated some of these things too,

962
00:32:52,002 --> 00:32:53,382
but they leaned into their strengths.

963
00:32:53,622 --> 00:32:56,082
So I think that at the macro
level, kinda really stuck with me.

964
00:32:56,382 --> 00:32:57,762
more specifically.

965
00:32:58,092 --> 00:33:01,032
There was one instance that
really stuck with me and actually.

966
00:33:01,707 --> 00:33:02,757
I mentioned Franklin Covey.

967
00:33:02,967 --> 00:33:06,917
Patterson and I sold a license to build a
course on the book that Franklin Covey's

968
00:33:06,917 --> 00:33:08,987
launching November 17th of this year.

969
00:33:09,182 --> 00:33:09,242
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

970
00:33:09,347 --> 00:33:11,717
Patrick Leddin: And, yeah, it's about
innovation and they found one of

971
00:33:11,717 --> 00:33:13,667
the stories as compelling as I did.

972
00:33:13,667 --> 00:33:15,407
They went down to Florida
and filmed this story.

973
00:33:15,767 --> 00:33:17,957
But it's a story about
a guy named Tom Diri.

974
00:33:18,297 --> 00:33:21,177
and very quickly for the audience,
Tom lives in South Florida.

975
00:33:21,457 --> 00:33:24,967
was in school 22 years old, getting
outta college, planned to go to Manhattan

976
00:33:24,967 --> 00:33:28,027
and work in consulting, but at the
same time, he was concerned about his.

977
00:33:28,057 --> 00:33:31,537
Brother Andrew, who was 20 at
the time and was aging out of

978
00:33:31,537 --> 00:33:34,237
the school system in Florida and
Andrew's on the autism spectrum.

979
00:33:34,687 --> 00:33:36,557
And Tom was kinda like, I'm gonna do this.

980
00:33:36,557 --> 00:33:39,347
I could have this great consulting career,
but what was my brother going to do?

981
00:33:39,407 --> 00:33:41,207
Tom, that was a disruptive moment.

982
00:33:41,267 --> 00:33:42,287
what's he going to do?

983
00:33:43,157 --> 00:33:47,017
fast forward to today, Tom is
currently the, owner and operator

984
00:33:47,017 --> 00:33:51,187
of three car washes in Florida
called Rising Tide Car Wash.

985
00:33:51,457 --> 00:33:54,517
And of their 100 employees, 90 of
them are in the autism spectrum.

986
00:33:54,607 --> 00:33:54,907
Dallas Burnett: Oh

987
00:33:54,937 --> 00:33:56,527
Patrick Leddin: it's
just an amazing story.

988
00:33:56,932 --> 00:33:57,322
If you're

989
00:33:57,322 --> 00:33:58,262
Dallas Burnett: Oh wow.

990
00:33:58,582 --> 00:33:59,212
Patrick Leddin: go to the car wash.

991
00:33:59,212 --> 00:33:59,422
Right?

992
00:33:59,632 --> 00:34:02,242
And by the way, they're more
productive and more profitable

993
00:34:02,432 --> 00:34:02,652
Dallas Burnett: Oh,

994
00:34:02,692 --> 00:34:03,112
Patrick Leddin: other car

995
00:34:03,132 --> 00:34:03,772
Dallas Burnett: a hundred percent.

996
00:34:03,832 --> 00:34:03,892
Patrick Leddin: the

997
00:34:04,172 --> 00:34:04,312
Dallas Burnett: A hundred percent.

998
00:34:04,642 --> 00:34:04,882
Yeah.

999
00:34:05,107 --> 00:34:07,357
Patrick Leddin: it isn't because
it isn't just because of the

1000
00:34:07,357 --> 00:34:09,067
goodness of the cause, right?

1001
00:34:09,067 --> 00:34:11,677
I mean, people might be like, oh,
I really care about this, cause

1002
00:34:11,677 --> 00:34:12,877
I'm gonna take my car there.

1003
00:34:13,177 --> 00:34:15,877
People will do that, but if their
car's not getting clean, they're

1004
00:34:15,877 --> 00:34:16,957
not gonna keep coming back.

1005
00:34:17,737 --> 00:34:19,717
Tom had to learn how to
kinda work his way through.

1006
00:34:19,722 --> 00:34:20,502
it's a great story.

1007
00:34:20,502 --> 00:34:23,902
It's an amazing story, of a positive
disruptor that's an unsung hero that

1008
00:34:23,902 --> 00:34:26,272
most of us never heard about, that
people will start going, who's Tom Dei?

1009
00:34:27,142 --> 00:34:30,232
And I love to be able to tell that
story, but what really, what, for me

1010
00:34:30,232 --> 00:34:32,422
personally, what kind of hit me was.

1011
00:34:32,902 --> 00:34:33,892
I went down and interviewed him.

1012
00:34:33,892 --> 00:34:36,562
We got a chance to, I got a chance to
tour the place and this is like when the

1013
00:34:36,562 --> 00:34:37,852
book was still on a hope and a prayer.

1014
00:34:38,347 --> 00:34:38,467
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

1015
00:34:38,482 --> 00:34:41,982
Patrick Leddin: sit down in the break
room slash office of the car wash.

1016
00:34:42,372 --> 00:34:45,502
I'd never been folks, I'd never
been in the break room, supply

1017
00:34:45,502 --> 00:34:46,972
room, office of a car wash.

1018
00:34:46,972 --> 00:34:49,552
I'd always been in the other room
adjacent to it where you get the stale

1019
00:34:49,857 --> 00:34:50,147
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1020
00:34:50,302 --> 00:34:50,632
Right.

1021
00:34:50,662 --> 00:34:51,232
Patrick Leddin: in this room.

1022
00:34:51,262 --> 00:34:53,722
I'm in this room with Tom, and we're
talking for about an hour and a half.

1023
00:34:54,112 --> 00:34:55,582
And as we were finishing up.

1024
00:34:56,357 --> 00:34:59,177
put it in perspective, the
room is crowded and congested.

1025
00:34:59,177 --> 00:35:00,887
It has like supplies
in there for cleaning.

1026
00:35:00,887 --> 00:35:02,507
It has supplies in there
for the vending machines.

1027
00:35:02,507 --> 00:35:05,867
It has a couple desks and people's
clothing, and it's just, it's compact.

1028
00:35:06,047 --> 00:35:10,427
Tom's wearing a red polo shirt, and as I'm
walking, as I'm walking out, I just turn

1029
00:35:10,427 --> 00:35:12,167
around and there's really a lot of value.

1030
00:35:12,167 --> 00:35:14,147
I know you do a lot of coaching
work and there's a lot of value,

1031
00:35:14,147 --> 00:35:15,737
but asking just one more question.

1032
00:35:16,097 --> 00:35:18,767
I had one question hit me as I was walking
out the door and I turned around and I

1033
00:35:18,767 --> 00:35:20,717
said, Tom, just one more question for you.

1034
00:35:21,167 --> 00:35:23,417
What would your 22-year-old self say?

1035
00:35:23,417 --> 00:35:28,577
What would 22-year-old Tom Diri say if
he saw a 30 5-year-old Tom Diri sitting

1036
00:35:28,577 --> 00:35:30,287
in a red polo shirt at a car wash?

1037
00:35:31,817 --> 00:35:32,777
And what would the kids say?

1038
00:35:32,777 --> 00:35:35,237
He was wanting to go to Manhattan,
say, when he saw you in today,

1039
00:35:35,687 --> 00:35:38,867
and Tom responded, he would say,
I'm in the exact right spot.

1040
00:35:39,407 --> 00:35:39,627
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

1041
00:35:40,607 --> 00:35:40,827
Wow,

1042
00:35:40,842 --> 00:35:42,012
Patrick Leddin: let that
hit you for a second, right?

1043
00:35:42,012 --> 00:35:43,152
I'm in the exact right

1044
00:35:43,272 --> 00:35:43,932
Dallas Burnett: man.

1045
00:35:43,962 --> 00:35:46,122
Patrick Leddin: first of all,
for Tom to know it and know it

1046
00:35:46,122 --> 00:35:47,682
like that I'm in the right spot.

1047
00:35:47,982 --> 00:35:49,092
I wish that for all of

1048
00:35:49,197 --> 00:35:49,777
Dallas Burnett: Oh yeah.

1049
00:35:49,902 --> 00:35:52,452
Patrick Leddin: because one of the things
we talk about in the research in the

1050
00:35:52,452 --> 00:35:55,182
book is there's these four fundamental
facts about disruption that we all

1051
00:35:55,182 --> 00:35:56,382
just have to wrap our heads around.

1052
00:35:57,042 --> 00:36:00,042
first one is, the status quo
is a deceptive little devil.

1053
00:36:00,137 --> 00:36:03,047
If you like things the way they are,
they're not gonna stay that way.

1054
00:36:03,547 --> 00:36:05,462
So you know, prepare for tomorrow.

1055
00:36:05,762 --> 00:36:07,952
But also if you don't like things
the way they are, if you're going

1056
00:36:07,952 --> 00:36:11,022
through a really tough time, it's not
gonna stay that It's gonna change.

1057
00:36:11,832 --> 00:36:12,762
there's a lot of good in that.

1058
00:36:12,792 --> 00:36:13,182
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1059
00:36:13,812 --> 00:36:16,572
Patrick Leddin: second fundamental fact is
it's okay that things are going to change

1060
00:36:16,572 --> 00:36:18,762
because you're wired to deal with this.

1061
00:36:19,412 --> 00:36:20,622
Are we have big brains

1062
00:36:20,772 --> 00:36:21,312
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

1063
00:36:21,372 --> 00:36:22,312
Patrick Leddin: That can
think of amazing things.

1064
00:36:22,382 --> 00:36:25,362
we can, do that last 10% really strong.

1065
00:36:25,677 --> 00:36:26,937
We can make that choice, right?

1066
00:36:27,132 --> 00:36:27,312
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1067
00:36:27,327 --> 00:36:29,747
Patrick Leddin: We can lean in,
we can pull back, we can make, we

1068
00:36:29,747 --> 00:36:32,297
can regulate our, how we use our
time and a lot of different things.

1069
00:36:32,477 --> 00:36:34,127
We also have really great experiences.

1070
00:36:34,127 --> 00:36:35,197
We talked about that reverse

1071
00:36:35,197 --> 00:36:38,087
resume or that white space We
can look at our experience and

1072
00:36:38,087 --> 00:36:38,957
go, okay, I got through that.

1073
00:36:38,957 --> 00:36:39,857
I can get through this.

1074
00:36:40,187 --> 00:36:41,927
And then lastly, we have resources.

1075
00:36:42,077 --> 00:36:42,977
We have people around us.

1076
00:36:42,977 --> 00:36:46,397
We have technology that our ancestors
never had that can do amazing

1077
00:36:46,397 --> 00:36:47,927
things, so you're wired to disrupt.

1078
00:36:48,317 --> 00:36:49,357
So again, first one

1079
00:36:49,817 --> 00:36:52,052
disrupt status quo is a
deceptive little devil.

1080
00:36:52,202 --> 00:36:53,702
Second one, you're wired to disrupt.

1081
00:36:53,912 --> 00:36:56,852
Third one is relationships in life
provide headwinds and tailwinds.

1082
00:36:57,822 --> 00:37:00,752
They pick you up or they hold you
back, and it's really good to surround

1083
00:37:00,752 --> 00:37:01,922
yourself with people who lift you up.

1084
00:37:01,982 --> 00:37:05,282
And if people are holding you back,
it's really good to kind of disrupt that

1085
00:37:05,282 --> 00:37:06,662
relationship and have a conversation.

1086
00:37:06,962 --> 00:37:08,582
You know, you're going
into the holiday period.

1087
00:37:08,792 --> 00:37:09,362
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

1088
00:37:09,362 --> 00:37:11,162
Patrick Leddin: of people are gonna
be going around the dinner table

1089
00:37:11,342 --> 00:37:14,132
with people who they feel like
have historically held them back.

1090
00:37:14,552 --> 00:37:17,102
Now might be the time to
disrupt that relationship a bit.

1091
00:37:17,132 --> 00:37:20,192
It doesn't mean storming out of the room,
it doesn't mean ending it and saying,

1092
00:37:20,192 --> 00:37:21,092
I'm never gonna talk to you again.

1093
00:37:21,092 --> 00:37:22,562
It might mean putting
some new boundaries in

1094
00:37:22,747 --> 00:37:23,167
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

1095
00:37:23,342 --> 00:37:24,872
Patrick Leddin: Or it might
be like saying, Hey, I'm not

1096
00:37:24,872 --> 00:37:26,072
that 15-year-old kid anymore.

1097
00:37:26,072 --> 00:37:27,002
Here's who I am today.

1098
00:37:27,152 --> 00:37:27,512
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

1099
00:37:27,602 --> 00:37:27,932
Patrick Leddin: Right?

1100
00:37:28,022 --> 00:37:30,512
And at the same time, you might realize
that there's some people around the table

1101
00:37:30,512 --> 00:37:31,652
that you're actually holding them back.

1102
00:37:31,817 --> 00:37:32,267
Dallas Burnett: Right.

1103
00:37:32,402 --> 00:37:33,092
Patrick Leddin: do I do about that?

1104
00:37:33,242 --> 00:37:33,542
And

1105
00:37:33,622 --> 00:37:33,912
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1106
00:37:34,142 --> 00:37:35,912
Patrick Leddin: fundamental fact is,
the one I wanted to get to on this

1107
00:37:35,912 --> 00:37:38,072
thing is that, your time here is finite.

1108
00:37:38,552 --> 00:37:39,837
Make it count in ways that matter.

1109
00:37:40,392 --> 00:37:40,512
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

1110
00:37:40,517 --> 00:37:42,677
Patrick Leddin: That's what Tom
Dey was really showing us that day.

1111
00:37:42,737 --> 00:37:44,297
I'm in the exact right place.

1112
00:37:44,567 --> 00:37:47,327
I could have went embedded a
consultant in Manhattan and maybe

1113
00:37:47,327 --> 00:37:50,897
had a really great life, but for me,
I would not have had the best life.

1114
00:37:51,212 --> 00:37:51,992
I think that's really cool.

1115
00:37:51,992 --> 00:37:54,092
I would say at a macro
level, we all have strengths.

1116
00:37:54,152 --> 00:37:57,902
And at the micro level, gosh, that idea
that Tom said just really hit me powerful.

1117
00:37:58,697 --> 00:38:01,487
Dallas Burnett: Man, I love how you
started and ended with that same idea

1118
00:38:01,487 --> 00:38:05,602
of purpose, because when you said that
first story, there was so much purpose

1119
00:38:05,662 --> 00:38:08,992
in that, in understanding and finding
and living and working in that purpose.

1120
00:38:08,992 --> 00:38:10,522
And I think that's really encouraging.

1121
00:38:10,792 --> 00:38:12,502
Whether you have disruption.

1122
00:38:13,352 --> 00:38:17,972
Pushed on you by something external
that you weren't expecting that catches

1123
00:38:17,972 --> 00:38:24,002
you off guard, or you are the disruptor
and you're required to disrupt.

1124
00:38:24,062 --> 00:38:25,442
and you know that is what's,

1125
00:38:25,507 --> 00:38:26,467
Patrick Leddin: that's,
well, that's the thing.

1126
00:38:26,647 --> 00:38:30,757
That's the thing man, is Dallas, is that
we are all, we are all the disrupted.

1127
00:38:31,447 --> 00:38:32,557
are all the disrupted.

1128
00:38:32,647 --> 00:38:34,687
We are all being impacted by ai.

1129
00:38:34,687 --> 00:38:36,307
We're all being impacted by the economy.

1130
00:38:36,517 --> 00:38:39,577
We're all being impacted by the next
dinner conversation that somebody might

1131
00:38:39,577 --> 00:38:42,817
say something at dinner table at home,
if you even have one of those anymore.

1132
00:38:42,967 --> 00:38:44,467
I mean, we're all the disrupted.

1133
00:38:44,917 --> 00:38:46,522
Some of us choose to be the disruptor.

1134
00:38:47,197 --> 00:38:47,677
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

1135
00:38:48,007 --> 00:38:50,287
Patrick Leddin: a positive, what
we call a positive disruptor.

1136
00:38:50,317 --> 00:38:51,607
That's a really key word, positive,

1137
00:38:51,817 --> 00:38:52,297
Dallas Burnett: Yes,

1138
00:38:52,297 --> 00:38:53,737
Patrick Leddin: when you're
a positive disruptor, you're

1139
00:38:53,737 --> 00:38:55,587
coming from a source of purpose.

1140
00:38:56,137 --> 00:38:59,917
You're saying I'm doing this because
our purpose of our team is that

1141
00:39:00,397 --> 00:39:04,087
I'm not doing it to be a curmudgeon
or difficult or just blow up the

1142
00:39:04,087 --> 00:39:05,257
meeting to be blow up the meeting.

1143
00:39:05,257 --> 00:39:08,507
I'm doing it and asking a
challenging question we wanna get

1144
00:39:08,522 --> 00:39:09,532
Dallas Burnett: because
we wanna get better.

1145
00:39:09,637 --> 00:39:11,882
Patrick Leddin: and what we found is
that you would almost think that, oh,

1146
00:39:11,882 --> 00:39:15,362
the opposite of a positive disruptor
is a negative disruptor, and it's

1147
00:39:15,362 --> 00:39:17,492
really not the opposite of the thing.

1148
00:39:17,492 --> 00:39:21,032
The thing that keeps all of us
from being positive disruptors is

1149
00:39:21,032 --> 00:39:23,552
a relentless pursuit of the status

1150
00:39:23,657 --> 00:39:24,557
Dallas Burnett: Of the status quo.

1151
00:39:25,292 --> 00:39:26,732
Patrick Leddin: a relentless
pursuit of comfort.

1152
00:39:26,747 --> 00:39:27,767
Dallas Burnett: Complacency, yeah.

1153
00:39:28,402 --> 00:39:29,792
Patrick Leddin: that's what gets us.

1154
00:39:29,942 --> 00:39:32,882
So the ability to say, you know
what, and see it in ourselves.

1155
00:39:33,442 --> 00:39:36,242
And Challenge ourselves or have people
in our lives who can challenge us.

1156
00:39:36,242 --> 00:39:39,477
I think all of us need to have, this isn't
in the book, but just a random thought.

1157
00:39:39,687 --> 00:39:42,147
I think all of us need to have
three voices in our lives.

1158
00:39:42,537 --> 00:39:44,067
We need to have the voice that challenges

1159
00:39:44,067 --> 00:39:47,557
us the voice that tells us the truth
and the voice that encourages us.

1160
00:39:47,557 --> 00:39:48,817
And sometimes that can be the same person.

1161
00:39:48,817 --> 00:39:49,717
Oftentimes it's not.

1162
00:39:50,092 --> 00:39:50,482
Dallas Burnett: mm.

1163
00:39:50,857 --> 00:39:54,077
Patrick Leddin: um, you know, my
mom passed away about, 14 years ago

1164
00:39:54,077 --> 00:39:56,747
in December, and my mom was always
a good voice of encouragement.

1165
00:39:57,247 --> 00:39:57,467
Dallas Burnett: Mm.

1166
00:39:57,752 --> 00:39:59,942
Patrick Leddin: So, you know, luckily
I've had other people feel that my

1167
00:39:59,942 --> 00:40:01,682
wife is a great voice of encouragement.

1168
00:40:01,682 --> 00:40:02,702
So you need to have those people.

1169
00:40:03,392 --> 00:40:05,402
wife is also a great, voice of truth to me

1170
00:40:05,657 --> 00:40:06,077
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

1171
00:40:06,387 --> 00:40:08,757
Patrick Leddin: and so the, and you know
when you get it 'cause somebody hits

1172
00:40:08,757 --> 00:40:09,987
that truth button, you're like, oof.

1173
00:40:10,052 --> 00:40:10,272
Dallas Burnett: Ooh.

1174
00:40:10,422 --> 00:40:10,712
Yeah.

1175
00:40:11,427 --> 00:40:11,727
Patrick Leddin: Right.

1176
00:40:11,907 --> 00:40:14,777
And then also a voice of challenge
saying, you, you could do more.

1177
00:40:15,017 --> 00:40:15,797
I see it in you.

1178
00:40:15,832 --> 00:40:16,732
Dallas Burnett: Yes,  yes.

1179
00:40:16,787 --> 00:40:17,342
Patrick Leddin: think
we need those things.

1180
00:40:17,807 --> 00:40:18,077
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1181
00:40:18,077 --> 00:40:18,857
I love that.

1182
00:40:18,932 --> 00:40:20,687
I, I mean, man, that is spot on.

1183
00:40:20,687 --> 00:40:23,897
I know that if you're listening
to last 10%, if you're coaching

1184
00:40:23,897 --> 00:40:28,032
a team, you just got a huge value
bomb, and he just dropped on that.

1185
00:40:28,032 --> 00:40:28,692
I love that.

1186
00:40:29,022 --> 00:40:32,742
I would love to, just as we close
the show, because this is, we could

1187
00:40:32,742 --> 00:40:33,972
talk for three hours for real.

1188
00:40:33,972 --> 00:40:34,902
I just enjoyed this.

1189
00:40:34,902 --> 00:40:37,982
This has been a great conversation, but
as we move to the close, I would like to

1190
00:40:37,982 --> 00:40:39,862
ask, what would you say to the listeners.

1191
00:40:40,042 --> 00:40:44,152
Who may be a little bit concerned about
the transformation that we're seeing with

1192
00:40:44,152 --> 00:40:45,922
AI and robotics and things like that.

1193
00:40:46,132 --> 00:40:49,762
How, what would you speak to them in
this, in at this time if you had something

1194
00:40:49,762 --> 00:40:51,267
to say based on your work in this book?

1195
00:40:52,447 --> 00:40:54,442
Patrick Leddin: Well, I, I
would first say that, you know,

1196
00:40:54,442 --> 00:40:55,462
whatever you're feeling about it.

1197
00:40:56,227 --> 00:40:56,917
That's all right.

1198
00:40:57,072 --> 00:40:57,392
Right.

1199
00:40:57,747 --> 00:41:01,637
Some people are anxious, some people are
fearful, some people are hiding from it

1200
00:41:01,877 --> 00:41:04,307
and acting like, you know, I can wait
this thing out, or I can retire, or

1201
00:41:04,307 --> 00:41:06,887
whatever it might be, and it won't hit my
industry in the next 10 years or whatever.

1202
00:41:06,887 --> 00:41:08,327
process your way through those things.

1203
00:41:08,387 --> 00:41:08,657
but then.

1204
00:41:09,452 --> 00:41:13,202
just look at it for what it's,
sometimes the pendulum and sometimes

1205
00:41:13,202 --> 00:41:16,202
in our lives will swing from anxiety
and fear to just ignoring it.

1206
00:41:16,592 --> 00:41:19,192
But ne neither of those perspectives
are actually very helpful.

1207
00:41:19,462 --> 00:41:22,272
What's most helpful of oftentimes
is hit it face on and think let

1208
00:41:22,272 --> 00:41:24,522
yourself think about the demo
rollercoaster, but then say, okay,

1209
00:41:24,522 --> 00:41:25,422
let's get real about this thing.

1210
00:41:25,452 --> 00:41:26,262
I would say a couple things.

1211
00:41:26,592 --> 00:41:27,642
I've heard it said that.

1212
00:41:27,927 --> 00:41:30,927
When it comes to technology, we often
overestimate what it's gonna do in

1213
00:41:30,927 --> 00:41:33,357
the short term and underestimate
what it's gonna do in the long term.

1214
00:41:34,107 --> 00:41:37,197
we overestimate it in the short term
over underestimate it in the long term.

1215
00:41:37,197 --> 00:41:39,537
So is AI gonna transform our world?

1216
00:41:39,747 --> 00:41:40,287
Yes.

1217
00:41:40,677 --> 00:41:42,687
Is it gonna transform your world today?

1218
00:41:42,687 --> 00:41:43,007
Some of you.

1219
00:41:43,612 --> 00:41:43,852
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1220
00:41:44,262 --> 00:41:45,282
Patrick Leddin: All of us over time.

1221
00:41:45,372 --> 00:41:45,792
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

1222
00:41:46,332 --> 00:41:48,792
Patrick Leddin: Um, I also know when you
look at companies when they're looking

1223
00:41:48,792 --> 00:41:52,962
right now, there's a lot of conversation
about the ROI of the AI investments, and

1224
00:41:52,962 --> 00:41:56,082
they're not seeing it, they're not seeing
the return on their investments right now.

1225
00:41:56,082 --> 00:41:57,312
there's some reasons behind it.

1226
00:41:57,712 --> 00:42:00,712
sometimes they'll, because
CEOs of companies are a

1227
00:42:00,712 --> 00:42:01,382
little bit concerned about.

1228
00:42:02,497 --> 00:42:04,177
I wanna use, I wanna figure out AI better.

1229
00:42:04,177 --> 00:42:05,347
I wanna use technology better.

1230
00:42:05,527 --> 00:42:08,647
I can see the benefits for it, but I'm
not gonna put it on this main project

1231
00:42:08,977 --> 00:42:10,687
that could actually mess up our strategy.

1232
00:42:10,687 --> 00:42:12,217
I'll put it on these other side projects.

1233
00:42:12,247 --> 00:42:12,547
Dallas Burnett: Right.

1234
00:42:12,607 --> 00:42:12,757
Patrick Leddin: So.

1235
00:42:13,417 --> 00:42:15,847
If they're not pointing the bat
at the main thing, they're not

1236
00:42:15,847 --> 00:42:17,227
necessarily gonna get the big ROI.

1237
00:42:17,377 --> 00:42:18,487
So that might be one of the reasons too.

1238
00:42:18,637 --> 00:42:21,157
So I would say that organizations
are trying to figure this thing out.

1239
00:42:21,457 --> 00:42:24,447
Do I think that, it's
going to impact leaders?

1240
00:42:24,537 --> 00:42:25,317
Absolutely.

1241
00:42:25,617 --> 00:42:29,007
I think that you're going to have work
being done by, you know, carbon based

1242
00:42:29,007 --> 00:42:31,962
life forms, and you're gonna have
work being done by silicone, things.

1243
00:42:32,182 --> 00:42:34,312
I think that, your span
of control is going to

1244
00:42:34,487 --> 00:42:34,907
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

1245
00:42:35,317 --> 00:42:36,817
Patrick Leddin: I remember
growing up you'd have like five

1246
00:42:36,817 --> 00:42:37,897
to eight people reporting to you.

1247
00:42:37,897 --> 00:42:39,967
It as kind of the typical
span of control of a leader.

1248
00:42:40,237 --> 00:42:42,007
We're seeing flattening of organizations.

1249
00:42:42,007 --> 00:42:45,667
We're seeing span of control changing
because they're saying, well, technology

1250
00:42:45,667 --> 00:42:47,347
can help with this, that, and the other.

1251
00:42:47,747 --> 00:42:51,277
but ultimately I think that when you,
if you spend your time, no matter

1252
00:42:51,277 --> 00:42:54,217
what the topic is, and I'm not a
futurist, I'm a humanist, I'm a human.

1253
00:42:54,247 --> 00:42:55,027
Behavioralist, I should say.

1254
00:42:55,357 --> 00:42:56,767
I, what I can tell you is it's.

1255
00:42:57,022 --> 00:42:58,282
Technology's gonna keep coming.

1256
00:42:59,692 --> 00:43:01,792
there's a lot of things that are
gonna happen out there that you

1257
00:43:01,792 --> 00:43:04,132
can be concerned about, did you not
to be able to do anything about,

1258
00:43:05,182 --> 00:43:08,092
spending a lot of time thinking
about that is probably wasted time.

1259
00:43:09,142 --> 00:43:12,402
a picture like you're on the airplane
and everybody else is worried about ai.

1260
00:43:12,402 --> 00:43:15,222
So they're, this is kinda silly
example, but you're on the airplane

1261
00:43:15,222 --> 00:43:17,427
and everybody else is playing
games, watching TV or sleeping.

1262
00:43:18,357 --> 00:43:21,567
You're the one saying, those are all good
things, but I'm gonna focus on getting

1263
00:43:21,567 --> 00:43:23,127
something done right now, type of thing.

1264
00:43:23,247 --> 00:43:25,977
So kinda expand that like everybody
else when they think about AI as

1265
00:43:25,977 --> 00:43:28,167
they're playing games, they're sleeping,
they're concerned, they're whatever.

1266
00:43:28,197 --> 00:43:28,857
Dallas Burnett: Yeah,

1267
00:43:28,977 --> 00:43:29,457
Patrick Leddin: in your hand?

1268
00:43:29,497 --> 00:43:30,037
what's in your hands?

1269
00:43:30,037 --> 00:43:30,997
What can you do right now?

1270
00:43:31,027 --> 00:43:31,687
Dallas Burnett: I love it.

1271
00:43:31,747 --> 00:43:33,457
Patrick Leddin: that's where I
think we can put our best energy.

1272
00:43:33,697 --> 00:43:37,867
So I was talking to somebody not that
long ago who's concerned about ai very,

1273
00:43:37,867 --> 00:43:41,407
this is like very specific, but he
said to me, he was explaining like why

1274
00:43:41,407 --> 00:43:42,997
he thought AI was gonna take his job.

1275
00:43:43,722 --> 00:43:44,977
He had a fair argument.

1276
00:43:45,367 --> 00:43:49,367
He said, AI, chat pt, these tools
like this, you give 'em a prompt.

1277
00:43:49,367 --> 00:43:50,687
They can write some really great stuff.

1278
00:43:51,227 --> 00:43:55,007
It's not always but it's like
70 or 80% right, and then you

1279
00:43:55,007 --> 00:43:55,937
can play with it from there.

1280
00:43:56,477 --> 00:44:00,347
This guy's job was to write a lot
of copy and a lot of speeches in his

1281
00:44:00,347 --> 00:44:01,847
organizations that the ceo EO would give.

1282
00:44:02,207 --> 00:44:03,887
He's like, I'm writing
speeches for the CEO.

1283
00:44:04,157 --> 00:44:07,277
The CEO just used a speech
that was written by chat, GPT.

1284
00:44:07,967 --> 00:44:08,867
I'm gonna lose my job.

1285
00:44:09,047 --> 00:44:09,947
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

1286
00:44:10,322 --> 00:44:15,062
Patrick Leddin: What I said to him in
that moment was, you might lose your job.

1287
00:44:15,542 --> 00:44:16,322
Let me ask you this.

1288
00:44:16,322 --> 00:44:17,132
Do you see

1289
00:44:17,402 --> 00:44:17,522
Dallas Burnett: I.

1290
00:44:17,697 --> 00:44:22,387
Patrick Leddin: a world AI existing that
you can actually be more valuable to

1291
00:44:22,387 --> 00:44:26,857
the company, not less valuable, do you
see with the existence of ai, you could

1292
00:44:26,857 --> 00:44:28,357
still make yourself more valuable here.

1293
00:44:28,567 --> 00:44:29,827
And he thought about that for a moment.

1294
00:44:29,827 --> 00:44:33,307
And basically what I was saying is, do
you see the disruption as AI as being

1295
00:44:33,307 --> 00:44:36,907
nothing but destruction you see it as
fertile ground for something different?

1296
00:44:37,882 --> 00:44:41,667
He thought about it for a moment, he said,
yeah, I think I, I could, I said, okay.

1297
00:44:42,117 --> 00:44:45,417
In the book, we talk about five roles
you can take on, and each of them,

1298
00:44:45,477 --> 00:44:48,507
because we talk about the fire inside,
each role has a fire idea to it.

1299
00:44:48,507 --> 00:44:51,677
So there's a trailblazer, a
Pathfinder, a Tinder gatherer,

1300
00:44:51,677 --> 00:44:52,967
a firefighter and a fire chief.

1301
00:44:52,967 --> 00:44:53,477
Those are the five

1302
00:44:53,657 --> 00:44:54,017
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1303
00:44:54,077 --> 00:44:55,937
Patrick Leddin: said, which of
these five roles would you take on?

1304
00:44:56,537 --> 00:44:59,937
And he's like, I think I would take on
the, the trailblazer role, which is you're

1305
00:44:59,937 --> 00:45:02,397
like, you're moving toward the change
and you're leading out independently.

1306
00:45:03,162 --> 00:45:05,982
I'm gonna, I'm gonna go out and learn
as much as I can about this right now.

1307
00:45:06,012 --> 00:45:09,582
I'll become the guy at the company
that knows ai and then I'll spread it.

1308
00:45:09,582 --> 00:45:12,252
I'll take out a torch bearer role
and spread it kind of as a movement.

1309
00:45:12,702 --> 00:45:14,202
Okay, let's look at your strengths.

1310
00:45:14,262 --> 00:45:16,272
What of these 16 strengths,
which ones do you have?

1311
00:45:16,662 --> 00:45:17,232
And he looked through 'em.

1312
00:45:17,232 --> 00:45:18,042
We talked about it for release.

1313
00:45:18,102 --> 00:45:19,962
I got a couple of these things
who could help you, you know?

1314
00:45:20,112 --> 00:45:22,992
So basically by the time the
conversation was over, I mean,

1315
00:45:23,082 --> 00:45:24,552
might AI still take his job?

1316
00:45:24,672 --> 00:45:25,152
Maybe.

1317
00:45:26,137 --> 00:45:28,567
at least he's doing what
I hope most of us will do.

1318
00:45:28,747 --> 00:45:29,767
He's putting himself in the driver's

1319
00:45:29,917 --> 00:45:30,637
Dallas Burnett: Oh yeah,

1320
00:45:30,667 --> 00:45:30,817
Patrick Leddin: you know,

1321
00:45:30,997 --> 00:45:31,297
Dallas Burnett: yeah.

1322
00:45:31,417 --> 00:45:34,417
Patrick Leddin: it's gonna take me,
I'm gonna give this thing a fight and

1323
00:45:34,417 --> 00:45:35,917
I'm gonna learn a lot in the process.

1324
00:45:36,277 --> 00:45:39,487
And, not a fight to like destroy
ai, a fight to leverage AI,

1325
00:45:39,602 --> 00:45:39,892
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1326
00:45:40,267 --> 00:45:41,197
Patrick Leddin: my thought partner,

1327
00:45:41,242 --> 00:45:43,592
Dallas Burnett: Well, and that's the
thing is that what you gave him was

1328
00:45:43,592 --> 00:45:46,562
empowerment man, and encouragement
and truth all at the same time.

1329
00:45:46,562 --> 00:45:49,597
Because what you said was, Hey
look, it may take your current role.

1330
00:45:50,867 --> 00:45:53,267
But it, that doesn't mean it has
to get rid, that doesn't mean the

1331
00:45:53,267 --> 00:45:56,457
company's gonna get rid of you because
what you just empowered him to do

1332
00:45:56,457 --> 00:46:01,267
is go in and create and add value in
either it's better the way that he's

1333
00:46:01,267 --> 00:46:05,257
doing it with AI or just using AI and
being that guy in the organization.

1334
00:46:05,257 --> 00:46:06,217
So it's just a different role.

1335
00:46:06,217 --> 00:46:08,527
So he's just transitioning to
a new role that doesn't exist.

1336
00:46:09,397 --> 00:46:10,787
Patrick Leddin: Let's say that
the company does get rid of

1337
00:46:10,787 --> 00:46:11,957
him like six months from now.

1338
00:46:12,017 --> 00:46:12,827
He gives it a valiant

1339
00:46:13,097 --> 00:46:13,427
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

1340
00:46:13,487 --> 00:46:15,757
Patrick Leddin: says, yeah, it's not
a good utilization of our resources.

1341
00:46:15,817 --> 00:46:16,327
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1342
00:46:16,537 --> 00:46:17,917
Patrick Leddin: what has he
done in the last six months?

1343
00:46:18,247 --> 00:46:19,272
Has he worried?

1344
00:46:19,292 --> 00:46:19,897
Is he worried?

1345
00:46:19,897 --> 00:46:22,897
Probably some, but not as much as he
would've if he just thought about it.

1346
00:46:22,987 --> 00:46:24,757
I'm waiting for it to
marched down the hallway

1347
00:46:24,812 --> 00:46:25,102
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1348
00:46:25,267 --> 00:46:25,447
Patrick Leddin: me.

1349
00:46:25,927 --> 00:46:27,817
It's just more like, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna do something.

1350
00:46:27,997 --> 00:46:31,707
So, in the book really the first
chapter is all about purpose.

1351
00:46:32,082 --> 00:46:33,312
Basically, we don't spend much time.

1352
00:46:33,342 --> 00:46:34,992
Other than that, we don't really
spend much time other than that,

1353
00:46:34,992 --> 00:46:37,392
talking about purpose because there's
a lot of great books and tools

1354
00:46:37,392 --> 00:46:38,322
out there to help you think about

1355
00:46:38,412 --> 00:46:38,832
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

1356
00:46:39,252 --> 00:46:40,842
Patrick Leddin: what the rest of
the book is saying, okay, while

1357
00:46:40,842 --> 00:46:43,962
you're trying to live out that
purpose, life is gonna throw stuff

1358
00:46:44,022 --> 00:46:44,242
Dallas Burnett: Yep.

1359
00:46:44,862 --> 00:46:46,392
Patrick Leddin: Let's talk
through how you deal with that

1360
00:46:46,557 --> 00:46:47,037
Dallas Burnett: Man.

1361
00:46:47,037 --> 00:46:47,487
That's awesome.

1362
00:46:47,532 --> 00:46:48,852
Patrick Leddin: the rest of
the book is exactly like.

1363
00:46:48,852 --> 00:46:50,172
It's really all about the power of

1364
00:46:51,567 --> 00:46:52,377
Dallas Burnett: That's wonderful.

1365
00:46:52,377 --> 00:46:56,247
So let's close the show by saying this,
number one, when does the book come out?

1366
00:46:56,307 --> 00:46:59,427
And how can people find you and
connect with you and buy the book?

1367
00:47:00,147 --> 00:47:00,927
Patrick Leddin: Yeah, thanks for asking.

1368
00:47:00,927 --> 00:47:01,347
It's actually

1369
00:47:01,587 --> 00:47:01,617
Dallas Burnett: Okay.

1370
00:47:01,777 --> 00:47:03,617
Patrick Leddin: and it hit the
New York Times bestseller list,

1371
00:47:03,647 --> 00:47:05,447
Dallas Burnett: Oh, congratulations.

1372
00:47:05,447 --> 00:47:06,317
That's awesome.

1373
00:47:06,317 --> 00:47:07,397
Congratulations.

1374
00:47:07,577 --> 00:47:09,017
Patrick Leddin: doesn't, this copy
doesn't have, but right at the

1375
00:47:09,017 --> 00:47:09,977
top now it says New York Times

1376
00:47:09,977 --> 00:47:10,907
Dallas Burnett: Nice.

1377
00:47:11,097 --> 00:47:12,767
Patrick Leddin: yeah,
and, it, so it's out.

1378
00:47:13,067 --> 00:47:14,117
People could find more about me.

1379
00:47:14,117 --> 00:47:16,877
My name's Patrick Ledon and got
in the show notes if you want.

1380
00:47:16,877 --> 00:47:18,377
It's just Patrick led in.com,

1381
00:47:18,677 --> 00:47:18,947
Dallas Burnett: Okay.

1382
00:47:19,067 --> 00:47:19,367
Patrick Leddin: easy.

1383
00:47:19,397 --> 00:47:20,357
Dallas Burnett: Patrick ledon.com.

1384
00:47:20,357 --> 00:47:20,627
All right.

1385
00:47:20,627 --> 00:47:24,197
Now we always ask the guest on
the show who they would like to

1386
00:47:24,197 --> 00:47:26,867
see as a guest on the last 10%.

1387
00:47:27,407 --> 00:47:29,057
Patrick Leddin: A young
lady named Lucy Westlake.

1388
00:47:29,417 --> 00:47:31,247
Who I interviewed, I interviewed her.

1389
00:47:31,477 --> 00:47:33,037
I actually wrote a book a few years ago.

1390
00:47:33,107 --> 00:47:34,547
it hit the Wall Street
Journal bestseller list.

1391
00:47:34,667 --> 00:47:35,537
Dallas Burnett: Oh, nice.

1392
00:47:35,957 --> 00:47:36,137
Patrick Leddin: up.

1393
00:47:36,137 --> 00:47:36,437
See?

1394
00:47:36,437 --> 00:47:37,367
Dallas Burnett: Yeah,

1395
00:47:37,457 --> 00:47:38,937
Patrick Leddin: yeah, I
went from self-published to

1396
00:47:38,937 --> 00:47:39,992
published by a big house.

1397
00:47:39,997 --> 00:47:42,212
It was published by another big
house to writing with Patterson.

1398
00:47:42,212 --> 00:47:43,862
That's talk about resilience,

1399
00:47:43,892 --> 00:47:44,432
Dallas Burnett: that's the order.

1400
00:47:44,462 --> 00:47:47,802
Patrick Leddin: She's in this book
and she's the youngest, female North

1401
00:47:47,802 --> 00:47:49,332
American female to climb Mount Everest.

1402
00:47:49,722 --> 00:47:54,952
And just a great story about a young
lady who, with her dad, they, they

1403
00:47:54,952 --> 00:47:57,382
started hiking it when she was a
little girl, like seven years old.

1404
00:47:57,617 --> 00:48:00,437
And then over the course of time,
they ended up going to High Point in

1405
00:48:00,437 --> 00:48:02,847
every, every state including, Denali

1406
00:48:03,092 --> 00:48:04,562
Dallas Burnett: Oh wow.

1407
00:48:04,617 --> 00:48:08,107
Patrick Leddin: And and then she
climbed Kilimanjaro and she climbed

1408
00:48:08,137 --> 00:48:11,092
Aconcagua and she was able to
climb the high point in, Russia.

1409
00:48:11,542 --> 00:48:13,172
and she's a really gifted athlete.

1410
00:48:13,172 --> 00:48:17,562
She ran track at, university of, Southern
California, and, decided she, and then

1411
00:48:17,562 --> 00:48:19,652
she decided she was going to, Really lean.

1412
00:48:19,652 --> 00:48:21,182
She did triathlons someone,
she was a little girl.

1413
00:48:21,182 --> 00:48:23,322
She recently decided, I'm gonna
get back into triathlons and

1414
00:48:23,322 --> 00:48:27,072
qualified for the wor fe women's
world triathlons in New Zealand.

1415
00:48:27,072 --> 00:48:28,212
she's, but more

1416
00:48:28,257 --> 00:48:28,477
Dallas Burnett: Wow.

1417
00:48:29,202 --> 00:48:29,832
Patrick Leddin: prowess, right?

1418
00:48:29,862 --> 00:48:31,452
'cause it's great that she
has all this athletic skill.

1419
00:48:31,452 --> 00:48:32,832
Somebody might be like, but I'm Patrick.

1420
00:48:32,832 --> 00:48:34,042
I don't have all the athletic skill.

1421
00:48:34,352 --> 00:48:36,262
it's just her heart and her energy.

1422
00:48:36,312 --> 00:48:36,762
and her.

1423
00:48:37,212 --> 00:48:40,582
She's really interested in, some
really interesting topics around,

1424
00:48:41,002 --> 00:48:43,492
How do we make sure these mountains
stay clean and available for

1425
00:48:43,492 --> 00:48:44,842
the next generation and beyond?

1426
00:48:44,842 --> 00:48:47,092
And I just love a 22-year-old thinker like

1427
00:48:47,192 --> 00:48:47,477
Dallas Burnett: That's great.

1428
00:48:47,632 --> 00:48:48,202
Patrick Leddin: so many ways.

1429
00:48:48,212 --> 00:48:48,932
Dallas Burnett: Wonderful.

1430
00:48:49,112 --> 00:48:51,872
Well, we'll have to reach out to her
and, see if we can get her on the show.

1431
00:48:51,872 --> 00:48:53,162
That would be an amazing episode.

1432
00:48:53,162 --> 00:48:54,602
So I appreciate that recommendation.

1433
00:48:54,902 --> 00:48:57,242
Patrick, thank you for your time today.

1434
00:48:57,242 --> 00:49:00,062
Thank you for sharing all
your wisdom on the last 10%.

1435
00:49:00,062 --> 00:49:02,792
I know our listeners really
enjoyed having you on the show.

1436
00:49:02,795 --> 00:49:03,401
Patrick Leddin: Thanks so much, man.