So how much is that?

So

you welcome to the podcast Senators mastermind. You're

seeing it real time as it happens. We're going to have

some fun today and talk about some good stuff related to the

sales page or the services page on your podcast senators website.

I'm Brian is bringing you can find me at top tier audio dot

com and over here is.

Jennifer Longworth of Bourbon barrel podcasting dot

com and there's an eye on my name just because there is.

Jennifer and I'm Daniel Abendroth and can find me at

Roth media audio.

Unable to join us this week is Keri. We miss her.

Her new website is Kerry dot Land.

Oh, yes. Thank you. Kerry Land. Welcome to Kerry Land. I

should have said that. So we were talking kind of off the air

about the conversation that we had last week. And there was, I

think, a lot of interest in things like the sales page and

some of that stuff. So we thought, hey, why don't we take

this a little bit further and we'll talk about what should be

on your services page. Now, for those of you that are under the

illusion that the three of us are experts and actually know

what we're talking about, I would like to refer you to an

actual professional of some kind. But we we thought, hey, let's

provoke some questions and have some good conversations and see

where this goes. Our hope is that not only will we gain some

insights as we share our thoughts, but maybe you will as

well, so we can all improve our our sales or our services page.

So I'm going to stop there and let either of you to chime in

and kind of add some things that make sense to what I said.

I don't have a sales and services page, so I am

actually talking with someone about redoing my website after

having all these conversations on like, Hey, can we talk on

Friday? And then I'll tell you if I need to add another page.

I used to have one that I was particularly fond of. Well,

at the time I was. And then I just kind of like waffle back

and forth between like, should I have prices? Should I now, Which

I include what should I not? And so I just kind of like threw

together a section that covered the needs. But then with the

with the intention of coming back to it and actually, like,

fixing it. And that was four years ago at this point.

So you've totally been on top of that. That's what I'm

hearing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So I mean, that I think that's a great place to

start, right? Because the first question I have when somebody

says, Hey, what needs to be on my services page, the first

question in my mind is, do you need one? Right. So, Jennifer,

you don't have one. What are your thoughts? Do you need one?

Well, this worked for me without worrying for a while.

So, no, but I mean, I can understand the argument to have

one.

Yeah. And I would question like, have you been

okay with that one? But like, do you know that you haven't missed

out on potential clients because you don't have one?

I don't think there's any way to know that.

That's the whole Joe Rogan thing, right? Everybody

says Joe does this on his podcast, so I should too. And I

will be a massive success. While Jennifer doesn't have a sales

page, if I don't have a sales page, going to be a massive

success like Jennifer. Well, I think the answer is maybe, and

in my mind, I think it goes back to the question before the

question, which is does your ideal client need to see a

services page? Would they be turned off by that? Would they

be I don't want to say turned on because that sounds weird. Would

they find that engaging or disengaging if they saw or

didn't see one? I will share that I still have one on my

website. I've thought about taking it off, but one of my

best clients, the reason she was my client was because when she

went to my website, she found a page that says, This is the

stuff that I do, this is how I do it, and this is what it costs.

And I think I had pricing on the website at the time. I remember

having this conversation that costing might not have been part

of that, but she said it was really easy to figure out, Does

what this person offer meet the needs? In my case, this is a

white label client. So does this meet the the packages that I

want to offer my clients? And so in my case, I would have lost

out on what has turned out to be in many years 30% of my gross

income. If I had not had that sales page because she would

have just gone on. And it doesn't have to be sales. Like

I'm not talking like a long form sales page like you get in those

three video series that you get from like Jeff Walker or

something. I'm talking about more like a SAS page where you

go, This is the stuff that we do or these are the packages that

we offer or things like that. So in my case, at least for that

client, it made a huge difference that I had one. But I

think it goes back to do they need it? Are there specific

clients that don't? Jennifer What about your ideal client?

Why is it that they don't need to see one? You know.

Because they've met me in person. They didn't find me

online.

And so at that point, as long as they can afford the

budget, I guess pricing and packages don't really matter

because you've already talked to them, right?

Right. I mean, the client who I'm signing up this

week, we knew each other last year, hadn't talked for a while,

but she was told she needed to do a podcast. So she called me.

And that's like my ideal clients, people who I've met in real life.

So I don't necessarily want someone who's just finding me

out of the blue.

So in that sense, years is almost the fact that it's

missing is helping to filter out people that aren't the people

you want to work with.

This is true.

So, I mean, in that case, I mean, done right?

Right. And the girl who did find me on Google

recently, she looked for podcast editing in Kentucky was her

Google search, which leads you to me. Right. And she's a

Kentuckian. And we got hopped on the call and it was all good.

She didn't need a pricing page.

Daniel, you said that you have one. That's just something

that you've thrown together. What do you have on yours?

Share, share my screen and then go ahead and go. So

this is my services page. It's just like a quick little sales

pitch about kind of like the more like salesy language. You

know, podcast editing is frustrating. It's time consuming.

That's why you should hire me to do it with like a little bit of

like kind of like an elevator pitch of what I do in a nutshell

and then like a detail of, like, everything that I do or

everything that is an option. And then down here, so I have

like a little thing, like if ready the schedule call, and

then I go into more detail about some of the things that we offer.

So one on one consultation, a new show, launch, audio, Grahams,

all that with like a blurb about what that is and why you should

do it and then fake news and then like my newsletter lead

magnet too. So yeah, that's what I have.

And so if I'm looking at this properly, you have

essentially one package with ADD on services, is that right?

Yeah, pretty much.

Okay. So you've listed what it is that you do. Got a

place for people to contact you. So there's some kind of call to

action. You've got a description of services and then the fake

queue. If you were to go through this, is there any part of this

that you're going, Yeah. I don't know if that's valuable or is

there anything that you're thinking? I should probably add

something.

So I would take out like technical jargon. So like AQ

boost noise removal, that kind of thing. Anything that's a

little too technical I would take out and just kind of focus

on that consultation and maybe put more information about like

what those consultations are. Yeah, I think overall actually

looking at now, I, I think like, I don't know what information I

would remove, but I would definitely like clean this up to

make it more visually impactful as opposed to just a wall of

text.

Have you thought about putting a link to any of the

like any examples of your work as part of your page? Right. So

or testimonials or anything like that.

That would be a good idea. I think testimonial wise,

I probably not linked to my work.

Okay.

Because I have like issues on that.

Let's talk about those. We like issues.

Yeah, let's talk about those. What kind of issues?

So I'd have to like be selective about what clients I

have. I have some clients whose audio like I'm not super

thrilled with.

True.

And I wouldn't wanna list those And also Oh yeah, so

I'm going to say what I'm thinking but like saying

thinking it now, like I can realize a flaw in my logic. What?

So showing the final product isn't a good example of what I

can do because you're not hearing what I did. But also if

you can hear a posh episode and still that kind of like desire,

like, you know, that's what I want, I want this good sounding

audio. Whether or not is so like the before and after I think

could be useful. But just having even that knowing what the

before was a solid after is still like really powerful.

I've actually kind of gone back and forth on that one

because for a while I really can considered putting a before and

after up there. Part of the hang up was I didn't want to display

any of my clients in a bad light by right. And so I want to be

sensitive to that. But as I thought about it more and more,

I don't think most of my ideal clients are going in to the page

and digging into what can he do to fix bad stuff. They're going

in my wildest dreams. What do I think I could aspire for my show

to sound like? And so for that reason, I've actually selected

and we can take a look at my website in a few minutes if we

need to. I've actually selected a portfolio of a few specific

episodes that make it clear this is not everything, but these are

some episodes that I have worked on that are representative of

the work that I'm capable of doing. And I think and of course,

that's up to you and what's right for your ideal client,

because maybe your client is less concerned with that and

they're more concerned with growth or something else. So

maybe here's another question Is there a value of providing some

kind of case study? So if you've got a testimony, Bill, from a

client that you could. Lynn Link, she put the testimonial on there

and then you link to the case study of what you did where you

can highlight the results. Maybe that's something that would be

more valuable to your client because they're I mean, they're

basically wanting to become, in a sense, mini celebrities. I

know that's not really the goal, right. But they want to make a

change. And so they want to reach more people and they want

to deal with them in a deeper way and that kind of stuff,

Right? Yeah.

And I think this is a thought I had. So you're saying

that like one of your clients was drawn to you because you had

the pricing, like all this information? Yeah, you said that

was a white label one. So like, that's somebody looking to hire

an editor for somebody else, right?

Yes. But then I've also had a few that have reached out

to me right. That's the one that stands out. But there are others

that have gone through my pricing page as well.

So I think like it comes down to who your target audience

is. Like for me, my ideal client isn't going to care about how I

HQ a show or how I do like the technical thing and like how

exactly I make their show sound good. They just want to know

that I'm going to make having a podcast easy for them. So I'm

going to focus on like the convenience that I offer that

they won't get from either like another editor or from them

trying to do it themselves.

In other words, what makes me better than Brian?

Yeah, exactly. As a podcast editor, if I were

looking for like a contractor, I would be more interested in how

they each knew how good their technical skills are, right?

I think if you were somebody that was dealing with

people that are primarily interested in growth, right,

they would probably want to see this is how we doubled their

downloads in 14 days and then how we did it again in the next

28 or something like that. Right. Because of course, there's not

going to be necessarily linear growth, but that might be

something where you there would be value in that kind of thing.

But yeah, I think especially for what you do, if you've got those

testimonials and you can just show how your process is really

making it easy for your clients, that might be something that's

valuable for you. And I think that's the thing that's valuable

to your client, right, is how easy can you make this Guess I

need to know what you do, but maybe not.

So I do have a couple testimonials on my home page. I

could easily like get more and kind of work those into the

services page.

What are your thoughts about reusing a testimonial

because social proof Facebook user Sorry, we can't see your

name, Social proof and case studies tend to be a better way

of showing your value than a portfolio in some cases. In many

cases, that's probably the case. I think it depends a lot on the

show for sure. But yeah.

Yeah. And I think for my ideal clients because of like

dentistry, they're in having testimonials from their

colleagues like, like validating my work I think would be super

more impactful than just like me listing what I can do.

Jennifer Did you have any, any thoughts on that.

Ad that I agree makes sense to me. Makes me they're

gone. They get more testimonials. Mine are really lame. I mean,

they're not bad testimonials. They're just not very not like

pretty like Daniel.

So what are your thoughts on reusing a testimonial on more

than one page?

I feel like it's less impactful. So like on my home

page having just like, Hey, Daniel's great, he does good

work. Whereas like on the services, like somewhere down

here, I like under like a new show launch section that could

be have testimonials. Specifically how we help them

lost their show easily or like on video. It is something kind

of specific to the services as opposed to general. I love

working with Roth Media.

Yeah, I think that's really the key, right? Because I

know I've got one testimonial that something like I really

love working with you and I appreciate that. And it's true

and it's heartfelt and it's on my website, but it doesn't

actually tell anybody why, which I think the key piece could be

that they like working with me because I don't know. I give

them free stuff like cookies. I don't know.

We like Brian for cookies. I mean.

How are you? I got cookies out of it.

So we talked about how you don't have any pricing on

your page. I think you said at one point that you were thinking

about putting it back on. Where are your thoughts on that right

now?

I don't know. I think I'm too wobbly on the idea to

actually do it.

Okay.

Because I don't get new clients from my website, at

least not a ton. It's mainly mainly word of mouth. So I think

like having pricing could set me apart. But then also if they're

choosing me based on my pricing, they're choosing me because like

I'm a better deal as opposed to like where that I'm a better fit.

Yeah. So I actually have two thoughts about that, right?

One, I think you're absolutely right. There are a certain

number of value shoppers that interpret value as the number of

things I can get for the price I can get them for not necessarily

the the quality of the thing that I get. I think there's also

a certain number of clients. There's also a certain hurdle,

right? If somebody has $0 to spend on production services,

they can't afford me or you or Jennifer. I think there's kind

of a both and and that's that's where I'm a bit stuck on my

website. I currently don't have pricing. Well, we'll take a look

at it in a minute. I did want to hit Jesse's comment. Is it

possible you don't get clients because you don't list prices

while others do?

It's very possible, but I think that kind of comes down

to like and that's the thing. Do they just like see my website

and assume that I'm probably out of there? And I think about like

what I look for when I go on a website and look for services.

Like I'm very drawn to the pricing and if I don't see

pricing, then I'm going to go somewhere else. Like that's very

possible. Yeah, if I have if anybody has suggestions to like

test that out because the people that choose not to go with me

because I don't have prices aren't going to let me know

right.

I would say and I realize I'm probably not the perfect

case study for you, but if I go to and I'm just going to use

software as a service because it's the easiest thing to pick

on right? If I go to the website for I don't know, descriptor or

something like that, and they have this great thing with a two

day free trial call for pricing, I'm never going to call for

pricing, No, because I am not willing to get on the phone with

you if I don't have any inkling of what I might be giving up.

Yeah.

And also, like, if I do have pricing, I can weed out

people that can't afford me before we get on a call. And I

sell myself, Jesse, to the pricing when it's like it was

never within their budget. Like no matter how good of a sales

pitch I am, like my pricing could just be out of their

budget and we could save a lot of time just by listing the

pricing and kind of get that out of the way. Yeah.

I mean.

If early.

On, if they're on a beer and donuts budget, they're never

going to buy a book a Bugatti from me, right. Because it's not

in the budget. So I've been back and forth on my site. Oh, I'm

sorry, Daniel, were you going to say something else.

Was going to ask? Like for those that are currently

watching, do you have prices on your websites and have you

gained any like, do you know that you've gained clients

because you had two prices on your websites? Kind of two

separate question is there.

What about like putting a range or I mean saying

like services vary from X dollars to Y dollars?

Yeah. Are rates starting at Yeah.

Or something?

So I'll show what I've done and I'm kind of currently

in the sort of phase in terms of how prices are listed on my

website. So it's not super obvious and I'll just share that

because so at one point, well, at multiple points I have taken

pricing off of my website as I try to find the right screen to

share. Sorry. Yeah, there's a lot to choose from.

Yeah. Early, early on in my podcast editing career, I had

like three packages and I had my prices listed and like at a

whole shebang there.

Yeah. So I'm still doing the three packages because

everybody knows that pricing has to come in packages of three.

That's just the.

Yeah, right.

And I've shared before that part of the reason I put

pricing onto my website in the first place was because I found

that I was negotiating with myself before I ever quoted a

price to people. So it's like, okay, well, if it's there, it's

locked in. Then I took it off because I was raising my price

every time I booked a client. Then I had some stability. So I

put it back on and then, I don't know, probably 12 months, nine

months ago, something like that. I was talking with a prospective

client and I listed the price and they said, Well, on your

website it looks like it starts here. And I had forgotten to

update my website pricing when I did my new rate. So I have a

client who got a great deal.

More than.

I did of my pricing. So I took it back out from what I've

done. I don't know if you can even see it, but I just put in

there engagement start as low as $625 a month for weekly shows.

Right. And I don't know that that's prominent enough, but I

also know that I didn't want to have three sets of pricing or

two in a call me or something like that, and I didn't want to

list a range, so I put it on like that. I'm trying to figure

out and maybe this is something where you or the people in the

chat can offer some insight about how I can draw a little

bit more attention to that without making it like danger.

Danger. Will Robinson Or maybe I should. I don't know. I'll leave

that open to you guys.

No, no. Just make it bright red. Right. Red and

underline.

Bright red on a black background. So it looks like

death, right?

Exactly. Nobody will miss it.

I mean, bold in italics or work to.

I think, having maybe a slightly larger font.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, I.

Can kind of, like, set it apart, but also it's like

looking at that. So like kind of thinking back to like, what I

know about the psychology of like how people, like, look at a

web page and they typically skip that section, right? And they'll

go straight to your pricing. And so maybe having it and I don't

know if I'm assuming you look like you I think you use Debbie.

Oh, yeah. I don't know how to code anything.

Yeah. So I don't know if there is a way to like in

between where it says like that the title box is having it is

something there are to somewhere kind of like in that area.

So I mean I can put pricing in this area. I just

didn't because I thought it looked really janky to have it

on one or two and not all of them. And I didn't want to have

pricing on every package. I wanted to basically give kind of

a baseline. This is where we start and then allow for a

conversation.

But also isn't a little misleading. So I start as low as

625 per month. But if they're just doing single episode, it

wouldn't be.

Sure.

Or is that like you don't do like one offs.

So yeah, engagement start as low as 625 a month for weekly

shows, right? So if they have a monthly show, your pricing is

going to be different. I'm not going to bill you for four

episodes if you produce.

Right.

But I didn't want to put something like engagement start

as low as I'm going to make up a number $25 a month and have them

think that's for a weekly show up to an hour with 57

participants. Right? That's not.

Fair.

And so what I did was I just put that on there. So it it

puts a little bit of that hurdle, but it doesn't provide a lot of

clarity because to Steve's point, he doesn't have pricing on his

website because his entire goal is to get them on the phone.

Right. So I agree. I want to get them on the phone. However, I

also wanted to provide a little bit of pre-screening because I

had probably three prospective clients in a row mid-last year

where I got on the phone with them. We talked about all this

stuff. Everything sounded great. I sent a proposal and they went.

What?

And I'm like.

Well, yeah, right.

Even before we started talking, I was like, okay, I

realize that you've not had anybody edit your show before.

Do you have a budget for this? And then it was like, Oh, well,

it's that much. I'm like, you know, for what you're asking

because it was pretty, pretty detailed and a lot I'm like, and

I don't remember what the quote is, but let's say it was $900 a

month. It wasn't. That's not unreasonable, right? You might

be able to find somebody on Fiverr to do it for that. Maybe,

but you might not. And so I started kind of putting that

back on there. I'd like to go through this and show what I've

put on there and then see if there are elements that I need

to add to mine as well. But I do want to hit also. Steve likes

the three packages summary and then Jessie says that he has a

range on his site. Jessie, if you don't mind us looking at

your website, do you want to drop the link in the chat and

we'll kind of look through that so we can see how you've

implemented that. And of course, if you don't want to, don't feel

like you have to. I said when they've done their their

research, it tells us that pricing is important for anybody

searching for a service provider. It's a source of friction that

turns away leads. I've not done a ton of research on this. I

would tend to agree with that. So mine and I tried to I tried

to layout this services section really similar to how a software

company would do it right. And this interestingly, is not

terribly dissimilar from how I send a proposal. I typically

will send a very simple, like a one page proposal that says this

is option one option to maybe option three, and option one

will have like two things that I do. And then option two will

have those two things plus the other stuff and so on and so

forth. So I do list all of the things I'm kind of part of me

says this is too detailed, probably overwhelming, and part

of me says I'm a part of me is afraid to take off all the

details and let them just use their imagination.

There's a lot of words here.

Yeah, yeah. And I guess it kind of comes down to what

we're talking about earlier. When you think of your ideal

client, do they want to know all that information?

Sure.

Because like for me, like my clients don't because

I'm selling like the convenience and ease of having a podcast as

opposed to.

Not the difficulty of reading a sales page.

No, that's fair, right?

Yep. That's lots of.

Words. I've got the big thing at the front with a call

to action. Get started and then a secondary call to action. See

the portfolio, which is just when it comes up three episodes

from three different shows, Right. So it's a total of three

that just says, hey, this is, this is some selected stuff I've

worked on. I've got my packages, I've got something around a

launch. This has no pricing on it because I find that launches

are typically pretty custom. Another call to action because I

always need more and then an effort. U.S.. I don't know. What

are your thoughts isn't and I know Daniel you have an FGCU on

your side. Do you think that's anything worth looking at or

having?

I think it might be. I don't have one, but I've looked

at all the yours and went, Yeah, maybe I should have one of those.

I don't know. I did it because I saw other websites do

it.

If it was me, it's not because I knew what I was doing.

I just heard that I was supposed to.

Exactly. That's how a lot of my stuff is.

Okay, So when I think about things that I think should

potentially be on a sales page, there's definitely the piece

about on mine about potentially missing the prices. I mean, I've

got it there, but it's not super obvious. One of the things that

I'm always thinking and I've already asked the question once,

is there's some part of this that's creating a hurdle that

makes it harder for my ideal client to get past the page or

to to basically stop before they make the call, but isn't weeding

out the people I don't want. I don't have the answer for that.

But I guess, you know, for those of you watching, that would

definitely be something worth thinking through. Any other

comments that you guys have from my page, anything that you think

is missing or stupid to have on there.

Can you scroll down more? Can I just.

It's really long.

The words all the words.

So many words.

I think there's one that's really obvious that I'm

missing that we talked about for years. Daniel, was this page

like no testimony, please?

Yeah. Is there like a call? Like it? I guess. Can't

that get.

Started? So, yeah, I've got actually three different

calls to action on the page to get started. Actually, it

started at the top. Get started, get started again. The form that

you'll fill out to get started and then that's it. So three

plus the actual form.

So like, I like having like on my website, like I had

an entire like width of the web page that was like I guess

started thing as like for me it's like a little bit easier to

see, like really get their attention full width. Yeah.

Instead of like having just a button.

Steve agrees with you guys. Too many words and no,

that's Jack Adult boy. So yeah, I think my action is to figure

out what words I can take off.

And I think we both could benefit from having more

photos of like our ideal clients, like actually podcast thing

because my website has a ton of like microphones and equipment

and mixing boards and stuff like that. People who look like my

ideal client in the process of podcasting.

Oh, nice. So you're talking like getting all the

terrible Canva photos.

Then I use Pexels. Thank you very much.

You're you're way cooler than I.

Am because you like that.

That's a great comment, Steve. Thank you for that.

Definitely missing. So yeah, Jesse, thank you for sharing

your website. Hopefully at some point I can actually. Do you

want to go ahead and display yours?

Daniel Yeah, and click here and it takes you right down

to the pack, which is really nice. If like somebody is just

wanting yes, right to it. And I have like the more flavor,

that's like a really good little thing there.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah. Really nice kind of like hero image right there.

And then I just think, okay, the, the font on this and just like

is really appealing to me and that's something I struggle with

a lot is like finding the right font. And I feel like this one

does a really good job at that.

Yeah. And I guess we shouldn't be surprised that

Jesse's website is totally rocking it out because between

him, he and his wife, they just do great stuff. I like the way

the pricing page works on On his the coloring is really

interesting. I'm looking to see what theme it is because, you

know, I might want to learn generate press. Very nicely done.

Mm hmm.

The only thing is this TV. No, it's generate press is what

I.

Oh, okay.

I've not worked with it, but this looks really, really

cool. The testimonials are great. So if we use Jesse's as an ideal

solution.

There's a picture.

A great example, right? So you got a picture of him,

You've got a list of why you need his stuff, right? The

things that they offer and why you need it. So editing, mixing

and mastering all this stuff a little bit about another piece

about why you need them. They're packages with pricing and starts.

It starts at and then 150 per episode. I think that's.

Yeah I do want to point out. So I was saying like not to

get that. I don't want to get too technical on mine and it's

like, yeah, you have engineering, mixing and mastering, which are

like industry jargon. But when you read the text, like it's not

that, it's in layman's terms, like anybody reading this will

understand like what they're getting out of it without being

like, overwhelmed with the technical jargon that they don't

know. So I feel like there's an up there that's like that exudes

like the professionalism and like expertise of being like an

audio engineer without overwhelming them with industry

terms that make sense.

Yeah, it really does. Jesse Not a surprise but good

job explaining.

Yeah, starts at and this is kind of what I was thinking

on yours Brian is having because like, this really gets your

attention. Yeah. Of the pricing.

And I really like the whole popular tag over white

glove right? That does a great job of calling that one out.

We highlight Jesse's comments. The last one.

Yes. Because that's the key, right? Yeah.

Can I express this enough? We are communicating to

our clients, not other editors. So what does your client want to

hear and what are they looking for when they're hiring, looking

to hire you?

So one other thing that I didn't notice on his page that

both you and I have Daniel is fake.

You know.

Jesse says that Tara gets all the credit. Yeah. She's been

a guest on the show before. Great insights. And Steve says,

great design, easy to peruse and hey, a picture. So, yeah, thanks

for calling me out, Steve. You're the best.

Yeah, we. Jesse, have you gotten feedback about your

fake news or like, do you have anything saying that they were

useful? Because I think like in fake you, I don't think there's

really a situation where it's not a good idea unless you have,

like, bad questions, like, are you good at what you do? Yes, we

are fantastic.

Oh yeah. Every effort that comes out when there's been

a recall, right? What happened? We're issuing a voluntary

retrieval.

Yeah. Whereas looking at Jesse's, it's like, what are

your qualifications? Turnaround time, I think is a great thing.

One I saw was like, What payments? What do you accept?

Like, how do you invoice? Mm hmm. Yeah.

Very good stuff. We had another one that was dropped in

by Facebook. User Do we want to move on to that one?

Yeah, go ahead and apologies.

We just can't see your name, but we edit podcast. Okay.

Oh you've already got it up. Excellent. Yeah. So we were, we

were thinking the same thing. Yeah. Mm hmm. I was looking at

this while you were talking because I like to double task.

You know, this to me looks like how can I create a virtual sales

call where I never have to talk to people and they can know

Exactly. And I don't say that in a disparaging way, right?

Mm hmm.

I feel like this is targeted to people that want to

know what it's going to cost before they ever call, but they

want to build their own package.

Yeah, this feels very much like a scaled, not bespoke,

but just kind of like a I go graphic product style.

Yeah, Yeah. Which is I mean, the way this is laid out

is incredible, right? It's got the three steps to take at the

top so you know exactly what you need to do. They've got to if

you scroll back to the top, it flows really well, right? You've

got three steps. One, two, three. They've got a short fade cue.

They don't call it that. Right. But what do these words mean?

And then it goes immediately to the estimator. I mean, they

clearly know what their clients want.

And like, this is a very well done kind of being able to

get pricing, technically speaking, like it's really good.

Yeah, I think it's I mean, I don't know that my client

would want that. And honestly, I'm not sure that I would want

the clients that do because I want to talk to people. But I

think for what this is because I've thought about how to

implement this, this kind of thing can be really incredible.

But for me, technically speaking, like the coding and

everything, like it's really well done, but it complicates.

And I think Facebook user mentioned it if make it too

complicated or I wouldn't make it too complicated like this

feels very like overwhelming, like so many things to like put

in and think about like it's just a really long form.

Yeah.

Just to get down to like and it's like, Oh yeah, they

think it's a cool, yeah, I want uploading and it's like, you do

all this to get like this huge price tag at the end. It's like,

Oh, and now I'm kind of like tweaking my thing. Like, okay,

what do I really need? What don't I need? Yeah. And now it's

like, now I'm to focus on the price.

Yeah. And I think to each their own right, this, this

obviously works for a portion of the market or they wouldn't be

doing it right. I mean you don't you don't run a productized

service business very long offering things that people

don't want to actually purchase.

Mm hmm. And Jesse makes a good point, is to productize

most clients want to know that there's people behind the

company. This sort of makes me think they outsource all the

work. And that's also like part of the idea behind like how I

design my website and like how I present myself is I, it's me and

my wife, right? Like we are like real human beings that you work

with to do this thing as opposed to hiring podcast editing Inc

Right.

Do you want to move on to the example from Darryl's

website?

Can do.

So? Steve mentioned that Daryl Darnell's website does it

really well. There's a link in the top bar that's podcast

editing services. So I've looked at his before. I really like

this table, right? I think this is really well done and the call

to action is really clear, right? You just click the button to get

started. The thing I'm not so sure about on his is once you

get past that there's a lot I mean if you want to talk about

words Steve there's a lot of words in the and what the

different packages are and I don't disagree that those are

needed. I didn't want to do that on mine. But yeah, I mean, the

way he's done his pricing package is great. Mm hmm. Or his

package pricing, that's what it is. I can't do my words today.

And I mean, who am I to argue? This is obviously working for

him and his business.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't want to, like, rag on it too

much. No, not here. No, no. And also, like the font. Like the

typeface, like I really like the font. Like it's and like I love

like this color, like the the contrast. So, like it's clear,

like when a new section starts, like this all goes together.

I'd like to reiterate Jesse's comment, right? They're

communicating to their clients. So the fact that parts of this

website don't resonate with me is irrelevant, right? Because I

yeah, I'm not Darrell's ideal client. I actually offer these

services right?

Yeah.

What about those of you in the chat? Is there anything

that you think needs to be on a website or shouldn't be on a

sales page or anything like that that we haven't talked about yet

because we want more insights while they're doing that. Steve

did have a couple of comments. He agrees with me, which means

I'm right, but I'm actually not. And then, you know, one thing is

they are locked into their prices, but having set prices

also makes it way easier for invoicing. Yeah, Steve says

samples of work.

That need to be there or not be there. What's the

answer to that?

Knowing Steve, I'm going to guess Examples are there.

They should be there. Yeah. Okay. And I will highlight

something I think, Brian, that you did really well was this I

think this is what I saw is you had a media player from the

house your clients hosting.

No, I use the embedded player from Cast Matic because

not all of my clients use the same media host and I wanted the

same look and feel on every page. But I want to. But I'm not re

hosting the file. I wanted to make sure they got credit for

all the downloads.

That's the point I was trying to make. Is that because

I had like a portfolio page? Well, I guess I advertised audio.

Graham's this way, but I don't think I actually have like any

So you could hear like the audio work, but it was embedded on my

website, like the file and everything but like having it so

like they're getting linked to their RSS feed or their so they

get to download credit I'm trying to say is good.

Yeah, definitely. That's what I tried to do with mine

because I didn't want to take away any of that. But I also

didn't want to have a libs in player for one and a Yeah, right.

Captivate for another one and I think I've got one for Acast now.

So it's just like this works Facebook user says that ending

in seven is a good idea 97 sounds like 90 but the $7 are

free money. So it's the whole 99 cent thing. Steve disagrees. I

think he's probably disagreeing with that particular comment,

kind of 5050 on that. If I see something that ends in a seven,

I think Internet marketing people taught them how to do

their pricing.

I also think because we all know that Target and Walmart

and everybody does that and why they do it. So when I think when

I see like something 97, I think like a sale or a discount or a

marketing scheme, right. As opposed to when I think of like

high end professional services, I'm thinking like, you know, 20

$500, like a solid round number. Yeah.

So that's actually the logic that I took from mine is

the value pricing is always like grounded down, if you will, and

premium pricing or premium products are always like even

dollars like 63,000 or 625 or something like that. So I always

try to end with

a502. Yeah. So that I made it clear I'm not trying to sneak it

under the radar as one penny less. So it looks better. Like

where that.

Yeah. And I'm also not like a discount service.

Yeah. Jesse says about us price range services and social

proof. So yeah I mean that's the one thing we probably didn't

talk about was about us. Did you have that on your website?

Daniel I don't remember.

I think I did.

I do have that. I do have it about me on mine.

Yeah. So no, I don't, I have like to a one sentence on

the top of my home page and I have like a little blurb on the

home page, but nothing about me, which I think is something that

Jesse did well was he had that little blurb about him on his

services page and then with his face.

That is not something that I have that on the front

page, right? I have it on my website, but not there. Steve

disagrees with us on the episode player. Why would you put a

player for your client's shows on your site? Are you trying to

get are you catering to them or helping them find new listeners?

But. Samples So I'll just share my logic. The reason I did an

episode player rather than a short sample was because I've

known some people that maybe post samples of things that they

didn't really work on. So if I put up the full episode, it's

really clear where it came from, whose it is. If they want to

follow up with the show's host, they can because I feel like and

maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like there's a certain amount of

fighting against the perception that sometimes people don't

operate with integrity within really any industry, but

especially something that's new, where there aren't really

standards. I'm not saying that I'm right. That's just why I did

it. And it also gives me an opportunity to say to my clients,

Hey, I'd like to you know, I realize that this is written in

that I can use your materials as promotional materials. I'd like

to feature you on my website. Can I do that? So that creates a

little bit more of an opportunity to have that

conversation. But that's that's just me I don't know. What do

you guys think?

So I am in favor of having a full episode because

whenever I'm looking for like a service or something where I am

not an expert in, I don't know, like what's good and what's not.

So if I look at I really have an example, but I'm thinking like

with my clients, they're not audio engineers, they're editors,

they're solopreneur doers. And so I could have like a 32nd clip

from a show. But do they really know, like what they've been

highlighted? Whereas like, I can present a full episode with the

intro music and like the can't intro and all this so they can

really like envision themselves being a podcast through me. Like

I could have an episode like this with all the bells and

whistles and everything.

So Steve had some clarifications. He says that

could be a separate page, which is what I did, just wouldn't

include full episode players on my sales page. So I definitely

didn't write. I put that on my portfolio page. I think that's a

great point, right? But to Steve's point, as long as we

have permission from our clients, I don't see any reason that you

couldn't include a sample, even if it's just a minute of the

finished episode. On a personal level, I'm not a huge fan of the

before and after or the after and before because I don't want

to showcase my clients like what I have to do, which is, I

realize a little challenging because part of what I want to

do is highlight what I do, but without highlighting the what

has to be overcome, I don't know. What are your thoughts?

Oh no, I totally agree. There's something you don't want

to throw your clients under the bus for recording in a cave.

Oops. Clicked on the wrong one. Jessie says From a

legal standpoint, it's easier to do an episode. Player clips, get

into copyrights and agreements. But I guess that's the thing

that we all deal with, right? And so how we answer the

question, how we approach it is really up to us and what's right

for our clients, both existing and prospective.

I'll also add that these opinions are based on like my

ideal client, but if you are somebody who is looking to hire

who's like ideal client, are currently podcast sitters doing

the editing everything themselves, then like very much

so we want to know all the technical jargon, like they want

all that because if they're going to hand off their baby

like this show that they've been editing up until this point,

they want to make sure that is somebody who's capable of

editing it the way they do.

Yeah, I guess part of that, I think, comes through if

you can get them on a sales call, right? Part of your ability to

instill confidence in them comes from that. But part of it

definitely comes from the website. Facebook user says get

them to sign off on before and after got their permission

generic mistakes that everybody makes. So yeah, good stuff,

Steve. No need to apologize. It's not good.

And I think I misunderstood what your

objection was.

But but you know what? This got us to a part of the

conversation we never would have gone to if we hadn't, which I

think is a really valuable insight. If somebody one if

somebody hasn't thought about copyright concerns, if they're

using a portion and hasn't run it by their client. But also if

you are thinking about pulling, putting full episodes on your

sales page, I think Steve's right. It probably doesn't go

there. I think it goes great on a portfolio page.

Yeah. And like how you had at the top of your page like

a link to your portfolio.

Yeah. And I'm only about 50% happy with having that link

there because I would really like to only have one call to

action. I just didn't know where else to put it. I got nothing. I

don't have real estate. I mean, it's a web page. I can make it

as long as I want it, but where should it go? Where should it

live? That was the challenge for me. I think we've covered a lot.

Yeah, I think I'm good. I think this is really good.

Okay, so podcast Question of the Day. This is the chance

for our audience to chime in again. In case you were nervous

about the other stuff. Jennifer, What number do you want? One,

three, five.

Three?

You always pick three, don't you?

It's like my mom's favorite number.

Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, no, no.

Okay. I think too. Too late.

Oh, wait, no, no. I got my paychecks. Not let me if I

could.

I didn't realize you had some. That's great. The question

for today, and you can definitely join us in the chat

if you're interested. What's your recurring nightmare?

Oh, I have two, so I'll ask. Start like. Like

literal nightmares. The one is we're back in high school and

failing all my classes. And then I'm like, This is just stupid. I

already have a college degree. I don't care about your double

plus. Anyway, I have that one a bunch, and then the other one is

where I can't stop my car. Oh, that's a scary one. I don't like

that one.

That's not a good one. Well, I mean, like that is based

in reality because, like, that happens. Yeah, like, that's

really scary. Yeah.

I don't like the one where I can't stop my car, but

the high school one where I'm like, I already have a degree.

This is so dumb. I'm not coming to class.

That's great. I don't know that I have a nightmare but

I do have three things that are all podcast related that are

probably approaching undiagnosed OCD, but maybe not completely.

Like I don't want to give myself credit for something I have my

diagnosed with, but it's did I hit record? Did I actually

publish the client's episode to the wrong show and did I save

that back up before I deleted the original? I always check at

least twice. Is it really in Dropbox before? I like that it's

a given.

Yeah. So I don't have. I had a recurring nightmare when I

was a child and that's where me and my brothers are on one side

of street in our house, my cousin the other side of the

street, and we were like fighting each other with like

mixed suits, but we couldn't fire our missiles. And they just,

like, fell out. I had like, that dream for a long time. But as

far as, like, nowadays the closest thing would be like my

anxiety of like waking up like 7 a.m. and just being like, did I

schedule that episode properly? Like, did I make a mistake? I

forget to do something like, Oh no, I think I forgot something.

So I run to the office and like double check it. Like, okay,

it's actually this fine. That s my OC. Monday mornings are the

worst time of my sleep because the majority of my show is

released on Monday. So like, it's a lot more work. And so

it's like Monday morning. It's just like and I have my

assistant like once episodes go, like she goes like checks, but

that's up. So it's like I'm getting on Slack. So if I have a

message from her. But I did. I did. I messed something up, too,

this week most of time. No, but still, like that. Anxiety is

always there.

Steve has a good one. It says he's floating higher and

higher than he starts to fall, but he never makes it all the

way down. And then he starts to float up again. And it keeps

repeating until he wakes up. Oh, that not pleasant.

No. Okay. That actually reminds me of, like, an actual,

like, nightmare. Oh, no. Over like, my life. It's we're like,

I'm running a long grass, like, having a good time. And I don't

realize that I'm on the edge of a cliff and up, like, running

off the cliff. Oh, that one.

Oh, yeah, that sounds funny on that. Yeah, but I think

we've probably run this thing off a cliff. What do you think?

Maybe.

Danielle, if somebody wants to be a guest or suggest a

topic for us, what would they do?

Just head on over to our website Podcast editors

mastermind dot com. Go to slash, be a guest and at the farm send

us a message and we will be in contact.

Yeah. Sometimes the things that we talk about

actually come from that and we think that those topics are

actually better than the ones that we come up with because

those are the ones that you actually want to hear. So yeah,

yeah, I'd love to see that. Is there anything else we need to

talk about before we close it out? I think we've gotten

everything, but I haven't hosted in a bit.

I think we're going to.

Be a guest on this wherever you listen to podcasts

too. Now and again in a couple weeks.

Yeah. And if you're listening to the year, too, you

know, we're glad to be there too, as it's fun. Yeah.

And if you're listening to the recorded podcast, then we

invite you to join the livestream over on Facebook

every other Thursday for the most part, and join in the

conversation because a lot of the fun and enjoyment from the

show, a lot of the value comes from you all and the comments

kind of giving your feedback and telling us what we need to be

doing.

So you guys are idiots. What are you talking about?

Let's be honest. You know that's the value of a lot of times is

in the comments is great. I'm Brian at Springer you can find

me at top tier Radio.com and over here is.

Jennifer Longworth of bourbon barrel podcasting dot

com. And next to me is.

Daniel Abendroth of Rough Media.

Audio. Unable to join us tonight was Carrie Coffield.

Eric, you can find it curriculum and where you will be welcomed

to Carrie land. That's it for tonight. Thanks for joining us.

We'll try and figure out how to hang up on this thing. See you

next time.

Okay. Bye bye.

So how much is that?

So

you

we.

Go just three more clicks and we're done.