Trish: [00:00:00] My name is Trish Ware and I am obsessed with all things pregnancy and birth, and helping you to navigate with the practical and the magical seasons of this journey called motherhood. I'm an all day coffee sip and Mama of seven. I've had the amazing privilege of delivering many babies in my 15 plus year career as a labor and delivery nurse, and as a mama of seven.

I'm here to help you take the guesswork out of childbirth so you can make the choices that are right for you and your baby. Quick note, this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace your medical advice. Check out our full disclaimer at the bottom of the show notes.

Good morning everyone. Today's guest is a former VBAC Lab student, Alicia [00:01:00] Zaas, and I am so excited to have her here, and I'm not gonna give away why, but you'll find out in a minute. So, Alicia, welcome.

Alicia: Thank you so much, Trish. I really appreciate it and I'm excited to be here as well.

Trish: Yes. We have such an exciting story for you guys, especially for my VBAC moms.

We were just talking before we started, that so many roadblocks are put in front of you and it makes you question your body, your capabilities. And so I hope that this episode really gives you hope that the birth you're dreaming about is possible. So, Alicia? Yes. Tell us about your first birth.

Alicia: Okay.

Trish: Which played a role in you finding me and the VBAC lab.

Alicia: Yes. So, so obviously I had to have a c-section in order to have a vbac, right? Yeah. So my first experience, of my first child actually, Lorenzo, he was born in February of 2020. And, I was, you know, like any [00:02:00] new mom where I just really didn't know what I didn't know.

Right. I had went through like a Lamaze training. I felt like I had some relatively good knowledge on birth and experience. I had hired a doula to be with me. You know, I, I thought I was prepared, but I was not. And so, it was. Really eyeopening for me that experience and extremely traumatic as well. I, I would definitely say that I had PTSD after having my son, because one of the main aspects was.

I, I had kind of been like, tricked in this whole situation. I had hired a, a midwife, but she was a, a nurse midwife. And so, you know, I thought that was gonna be the best possible way to have a natural unmedicated birth in a hospital. And so, anyways. Come to find out I, my, my water broke, you know, at home.

I had started labor that [00:03:00] day. I went into the hospital not rushing, just like taking it easy, trying to really just be in a good mindset. Again, I, I had goals of having an unmedicated birth experience and got there. You know, everybody was respecting my birth plan. Like I didn't wanna be checked if I didn't need to be checked.

All the things, well, you know, a few hours pass by, my midwife comes in, she's, you know, checking out for the day, basically, and she says, well, let me just, you know, do an ultrasound just to make sure that the baby's in the right position. And something felt off at that moment. I just like, it felt like she knew something that I didn't know, and sure enough she did.

She had known that the baby had been in a breach position for weeks.

Trish: Why didn't she tell you?

Alicia: Nobody had told me this information. Why? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Trish: That's not

Alicia: good. It's not okay. I felt like I, it was total [00:04:00] bait and switch, uh, situation. And so in that moment, you know, she's bringing in the, the ultrasound machine.

She, she checks and sure enough he's still in a breach position. Mind you, my water's already broken. Nobody has checked me to see where I'm at in terms of dilation or anything. And immediately she says, okay, we're going into an emergency C-section. I'm calling the doctor right now, blah, blah, blah. I mean, it's just chaos.

Pure chaos. There's no time to process. My, my doula attempted to have a conversation with her, and she just shut her down. There was no conversation being had. I was just in a complete mess. Right. So this was not, I'm

Trish: flabbergasted, honestly. Yeah.

Alicia: It was horrendous. Okay. So my, my control was completely ripped from me, and I just felt so, you know, rolled over.

Right. Yeah. Like, I had no options.

Trish: Of course, of course you did.

Alicia: So [00:05:00] it was, it was a very traumatic experience for me, and, and for months afterwards, I just, I grieved the loss of my birth experience, you know, and so it was really hard. I just, I wish that I had been able to go back and like advocate for myself, but I didn't, I didn't know how to do that in those moments and I really needed my partner or somebody else to advocate for me in that moment.

And I just, I didn't have that kind of support that was needed. Yeah. So fast forward, right, about a year later, I'm kind of considering Okay. If I decide we want to have another baby, what does this look like? Because I am not gonna go down that road again. I cannot mentally go down that road again. It was so extremely difficult, and so I.

So anyways, I started searching online and found your VBAC lab and I, I was like, okay, so there's somebody, right, that is [00:06:00] advocating for this, that is sharing awareness information. So I started following you on Instagram first and then, ended up getting pregnant in like December of 21 and so in in January of 22, I signed up for the VBAC lab and was super excited to like start this journey and then ended up miscarrying it 11 weeks.

Mm-hmm. And so, you know, that was difficult to experience that loss. And then later that year, yeah, yeah, we kept trying, we kept trying and, had a, a chemical pregnancy. And then finally, you know, my new midwife, that I had hired, she said it was okay to go ahead and try ch again. 'cause that's how I actually got pregnant with my first one, was by taking ch Clomid.

So we got pregnant first try. And, I was super excited, but again, I knew that this experience was gonna be different and I had, you know, really just tried to do as much as I could to [00:07:00] research and be prepared. So with this experience, I decided I wanted to try to have a home birth and a VBAC all in one.

And so I. I had reached out to a couple home birth midwives in my area, because I just felt like that was gonna be the safest option in terms of me actually being able to. Accomplish this goal. Because we live in a relatively rural area here in California. It's like Central California, which people don't

think, right?

Yeah,

yeah. They think of like LA and San Francisco. Well, we live in Ag Land, like that's where we're at. You know, it's agriculture. I've driven

Trish: through there so many times, like that whole, like inner. Way from, you know, from the desert up until Sacramento. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's literally like a different world.

Alicia: It is. It's completely different and very rural in many ways and, and a lot of, you know, the doctors and providers around here are just not be that supportive at all. I [00:08:00] had done my research during that, that early pregnancy and just felt like nobody really around here was super supportive, which you.

Very clear about like, there's VBAC tolerant and VBAC supportive, and I just didn't feel like anybody was super supportive. So I just felt like going the, the home midwife route was gonna be my best option. And so I was finally able to get one of them to agree, to take me on. And, so I met with her, her name's Alex and,

i, I was excited to start this process, but nervous because like, oh, you know, this is a home birth. Like, what does that even mean? What does that look like? Can I interrupt

you just for a second? Yes. Uhhuh did you, you said, so did you ask her specifically like how much experience you have? What are your outcomes with VBAs like?

Yes. Did you like very much griller?

Oh yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. She, she was very, very direct with me. She said, you know, I've done VBACs. [00:09:00] I'm willing to, you know, work with you, but if anything gets outside of the normal range of pregnancy mm-hmm. Or delivery, you will be, you know, taken to the hospital.

Like there's no. Her butts about it. Right. So, she was very direct about that, but I felt like she was supportive. You know, I felt like mm-hmm. She was gonna be an advocate for me because that's what I wanted and desired. And, and she was, and so her and her trainee, or practicum person, I forget what you call them, but, she like her assistant team.

Yeah. Her assistant. And so. They were amazing. I ended up actually getting gestational diabetes with this pregnancy, and so that was a little scary too because I was like, wait a second. Is this going to now what here with my plans? Yeah. But they worked with me. My, my midwife at the clinic here in town worked with me 'cause I wanted to.

I had both, I had like my midwife at the clinic and I also had my [00:10:00] home midwives, but they were working together. They understood that this was the goal and, the midwife at the clinic was a hundred percent on board with, you know, whatever felt right for me. So she hit on about my prior experience as well.

Trish: I, I really love that. You had support from both sides. Like that makes a huge difference.

Alicia: It was very helpful.

Trish: Mm-hmm.

Alicia: Because I, I was able to get like all my labs done, you know, through the, the clinic and, you know, ultrasounds and all the things through medical insurance, the way that you would normally do it, but still have my home birth, you know, experience, which I.

Mind you, Trish, this was an amazing experience too, in and of itself. Like they would spend an hour with me at like every appointment at my home. That's so,

Trish: I'm so jealous. I can even, I wanted to have a home birth. So bad with Grayson, but it just wasn't in the cards. Oh

Alicia: yeah. It was really amazing. It was just so supportive.

They, they really [00:11:00] just wanted to, to get to know me, my family, all the dynamics. It was really amazing.

Trish: So let me ask you another question, because I know that this comes up a lot when I chat with my students or people you know that send us dms. What about your partner? Where was your partner at with this and completely 100% on board?

Did you have to nurture him into this?

Alicia: Yeah, so I would say he was, I would say like a hundred percent on board in terms of he wanted what I wanted and mm-hmm. Like he knew that this was the best. Option for me and that this was the only way that I was like, gonna feel really great about it. Yeah. And was like, okay.

Okay. With it. Now he was, he is not the kind of guy that's like, oh, let me learn all the things right and let me, let me understand all the dynamics and let me sit in on these, [00:12:00] you know, appointments. That is not him at all. So I really took the lead on that aspect, and you could tell because. During the actual home birth experience, he was so unprepared that he like didn't know how to put the nozzle on the shower head in order to get the, the pool filled up.

And so the pool wasn't filled up in time. And yeah, that

Trish: take, and that just so you guys listening, if you're using a pool, it can take. A long time. So if you get to the hospital and you're using a pool, you wanna use a pool, ask them to start filling that up. Yes.

Alicia: Well, and I think for, for me, you know, the midwives and everybody thought it was gonna take a lot longer than it did Trish.

Trish: I,

Alicia: I had a, I don't know

Trish: why though.

Alicia: Birth experience, I dunno. Yeah. I think because nobody had checked me the first time, right? Yeah. We didn't know how far I had gotten during that first labor experience, so [00:13:00] it was kind of hard for them to gauge, you know, what this experience would look like. And the other, the other aspect that I think plays a role in that might also be that, you know, I also had that miscarriage and so, you know, your body's experiencing like postpartum and you know, all the things, you know, related to that as well.

So, mm-hmm. So I've had a few experiences, I guess, you could say. So, so going back to the story, I apologize. No, that's okay. We love these little offsides. Okay. So, you know, I had gestational diabetes. I'm late maternal age, right? I'm over 35 gestational, or, you know, geriatric, pregnancy, if you wanna call it that.

And I don't, for me that like it, I'm not a

Trish: fan,

Alicia: all these combinations of things. But again, I just, I was really diligent about my diet and exercise and like. I, I was determined that if at all possible I was gonna have this baby at home.

Trish: Yeah. And you were diet controlled the whole time, right?

Alicia: Yeah. So my contractions [00:14:00] began on July 31st, so we're actually coming up on that in just a couple of days.

One year. Yeah. At around like 3:00 AM It was inconsistent, you know, throughout the day, but like I could tell that something had changed. This was real contractions that were happening. But again, they were inconsistent. I got, adjusted by the chiropractor that I had been seeing on and off. A little bit that morning because I had had a lot of back pain the night before.

Ooh.

Trish: I love those chiropractor adjustments at the end of pregnancy.

Alicia: She's a Webster trained chiropractor. Yeah. So I was like, thank you so much. It gave me some relief and I knew that that would help probably with the transition as well. So at 4:00 PM that day, that's when like. Things started getting more consistent and increasing in intensity.

I called my doula. She arrived around 8:30 PM because I was like, you know, at four I was like letting her know this was happening. I went and took a bath, you know, I'm doing all the things at home to just kind of like, [00:15:00] you know, deal with life, and my, you know, 3-year-old at the time and all the things.

And so at about eight 30 she showed up because. I think around 7, 7 30, I was like, okay, now I think I need you to come. I need you to come and help with these contractions. They're feeling really intense now. And so eight 30 she got there. She began helping me get into different positions to make sure that the baby was finding his way.

And then when my midwife arou arrived around 10:30 PM that night, things were really starting to pick up. So my midwife Alex, she checked me probably around 11, like she got there at 10 30, watched me for about half an hour just to kind of see like what I was experiencing. And then was like, okay, do you wanna get checked?

Do you not wanna get checked? And I was like, yeah, I wanna get checked. I wanna see where I'm at. I really am curious. Yeah. So it was about 11:00 PM and she said I was at a four centimeters. And then I had a [00:16:00] contraction while she was checking me, and she said I was at five during the contraction. So I knew that like things were progressing pretty quickly.

And she was impressed with my progress as well because again, I don't think they, any of them anticipated this happening super quickly. Because it was technically my first, you know, full labor. Yeah.

Trish: Yeah. And just for those of you guys listening, a lot of times we prepare you for a long process with a vbac.

And part of why I do that is because if you get in your mindset that it's gonna be a long process, you don't get in your way either.

Alicia: Sure. Good idea. Yeah, I think that's really good.

Trish: Yeah, because it, it, if you don't, then when they, you know, let's say more so for a hospital birth, which is the majority of the people listening.

Alicia: Mm-hmm.

Trish: If you don't, then when they get like, you know, TikTok, TikTok, TikTok, checking their timers, if you don't prepare yourself, you're not ready for [00:17:00] that. And it's hard to navigate.

Alicia: Yeah. Yeah. So, which you

Trish: don't have with a home birth. Thank God. Yeah.

Alicia: No, yeah. It was, it was such a, a weird experience. But amazing all at the same time.

Yeah. So right after she checked me, that's like. When contractions started getting almost on top of each other, it just felt like I didn't have much of a break, like maybe a minute in between each one. It just was like really intense. And so my doula, wanted me to get in the shower so she could just like, you know, keep the hot water running on me.

And, that was very relieving. It felt wonderful to have that during those really intense. Contractions.

Trish: I love hydrotherapy. That was my go-to as well.

Alicia: It was, it was like, definitely it's heaven, my paper. And again, during this whole process, she keeps like having me change positions and I'm trying to also listen to my body and see like what [00:18:00] feels right for me in that moment too.

So, you know, I, I kept changing positions in the shower and, you know, and I would like during a contraction if I wasn't in the shower. I'd be getting like on, you know, my hands and knees in almost like a, oh gosh, what not happy baby. It's like child's pose. Okay. You know, kind of position. And that was like the most comforting position to be in during a contraction.

Most of the time. So I got in the shower again. My, my doula Mona Lisa, she helped me keep me comfort as comfortable as possible during that time. And, at like 1209 I think it was, that's when my waters ruptured. So we're into August 1st at this point. Just barely. And, I began to feel like intense pressure right away.

And the water breaking too was also like, surreal because I was just like, whoa, what is this?

Trish: So let's ask, did you hear a big pop? Did you, yes. You did it Okay. [00:19:00] Because I never got to hear the big pop, even though I had mine break on its own several times, several eighties. It was a huge

Alicia: rush, like, like, you know, gush of water.

I had

Trish: that, but I never heard the pop.

Alicia: Yeah. It was so, so crazy to me. And I, I think I screamed at that point because I was like, what, what the heck was that? It so crazy. But I, it's so

Trish: relieving to me though. I feel like when my water broke, it just relieved so much pressure.

Alicia: It did. It definitely did.

So that was in the shower when that happened. So then my midwives came in, to check me, and they were like, oh, okay, Alicia. We need to get you like in the pool now. You know, like you're, you're getting ready to, to go at this point.

Trish: And the pool is now filled up.

Alicia: No, no, they just started like filling the floor.

Yeah, no, it takes forever. Yeah. So it was too late. It was way too late for that at this point. So baby was

Trish: not meant to be a [00:20:00] tub birth?

Alicia: No. Just not gonna happen. So, so anyways, I. Transferred over to my bed at this point because the pool was not ready. And it was too late because the baby was coming.

So I immediately began feeling like I needed to push. And within 20 minutes, Trish, Dominic was born and meeting us here in the world. I was like amazed at my body's ability to birth. Oh, now I'm getting you emotional.

Trish: And and I love that you just said that, and I wanna pause because I think that I know because I spend a lot of time with moms who've had a c-section who want a vaginal delivery, and there is such a huge mistrust in your body.

Alicia: Yeah. Yeah. It's scary. It's scary because. You know, you, something was wrong the first time, right? Whether you internalized that message or [00:21:00] it was given to you, it, it felt like maybe I can't do this right? Yeah. And then

Trish: a lot of the moms are told, you know, your hips, your pelvis, your, this, that, and, and it's like they are planting that doubt.

Alicia: Exactly. Even

Trish: in a case like yours, your body wasn't even given a chance.

Alicia: No, it wasn't. And because of the research I had done right, I felt like. I am the best candidate because I had a breach baby the first time. So there's no, there's no guarantee that you're ever gonna have a breach baby again.

You know, there's, it's kind of like a fluke type of situation in many cases. Right. So, well, and just

Trish: to point out that acog, ACOG states that 90% of women who've had a cesarean are candidates 90%, but do you think 90% get supported? No. Oh, no.

Alicia: Oh no, Trish. Literally the day after my first birth experience, my C-section, when my midwife [00:22:00] came to see me that day, she, she had no idea how traumatic that experience had been for me, because she literally told me, well, at least you'll get to plan the next one.

Trish: I'm just, I am speechless. Like, yeah. Are you kidding me? How callous is that?

Alicia: Extremely. She didn't

Trish: even ask you or identify how you felt about the whole thing?

Alicia: No, no. It was it, that's how like disconnected she was from the entire, but look

Trish: at that one little statement.

Alicia: Mm-hmm.

Trish: Is subconsciously saying to a mom.

You don't get the option to give birth naturally.

Alicia: You don't have the option. This is, this is already set in stone. This is planned out for you. This is your only, only potential option for any future. Yeah. So

Trish: that's so maddening.

Alicia: Yeah. So how was your

Trish: recovery compared to baby number one?

Alicia: Oh my gosh. I mean, just to be able to get up after having a baby and walk like to the bathroom, you know?

And [00:23:00] feel like I have. Yeah. 'cause a c-section

Trish: mom doesn't have that option.

Alicia: No. And I You've had major

Trish: abdominal surgery.

Alicia: Exactly. I can remember laying in bed after, after getting out of the recovery room and being in my room. And I can remember saying to my family, where are my legs? Like, yeah, I can't see them.

Did they take my legs? I literally, I can't feel them. I don't know where they're at. Can you just like, can you tell me where they're at? Like, it just, it felt like such a, a disassociation in many ways from my body. Mm-hmm.

Alicia: And, you know, even, even the experience like after birth and like trying to nurse the baby, you know, it just felt like I was in a different place.

Like I was not functioning at all levels because of the, you know, uh, anesthesia and things that they had given me. Yeah, the nurse block, whatever you wanna call it. But, I, I didn't have the capacity to even communicate things like. [00:24:00] Like, no, you're not following my birth plan. Please don't put the ointment in my baby's eyes.

Right. I couldn't even verbalize that in that moment. Yeah. Because I felt like I couldn't communicate. I, I was so just kind of, I remember

Trish: that way. I was that way after one of mine that I had some trauma. Mm-hmm. And it, it is true. Like you, you just can't communicate well.

Alicia: Yeah, it was just a horrible feeling, you know, to be so out of control in so many ways.

So this recovery and experience, right. I was able to communicate. They knew what my desires were. Like, you know, I, I asked for And you're at

Trish: home?

Alicia: Yeah, I was at home. I was in the comfort of my own room and bed, and it was just, it felt so nice. And all of these women were surrounding me who were just pumping me up the entire time saying like, you've got this, you're doing so great.

You know, like they were just amazing. And my husband was there. [00:25:00] He didn't wanna see anything, but he was right there by my head face, you know? And I actually, I got to, see the baby, you know, at different points. Like they handed me a mirror to be able to look. I love it. I didn't feel his hair and his head as he was getting close to coming out.

It was just like, I'm

Trish: getting teary eyed. It's just so beautiful birth, so amazing when it's left to be the natural process that it is.

Alicia: A hundred percent. Now, I will tell you, right, like I tore, I had a second degree tear. I felt it, like I felt every bit of it when I tore, but I also was like, like determined again.

You know? I didn't, I know a lot of women say like, well, and

Trish: part of why you did is because he came out fast and furious.

Alicia: Oh yeah. 100%. That's,

Trish: that's pretty common when they come out like that. Yeah.

Alicia: So that was, you know, like. Tough to deal with, but, my midwife sewed me up and, you know, gave me some like, local anesthesia to [00:26:00] help with the, the pain in the moment.

But, it was, it was such a great experience overall. Again, I was just like amazed and my body's ability to do this. I was so like, grateful to my team that supported and encouraged me.

Trish: Oh, makes a huge difference.

Alicia: You know, my faith, right? Like, I really feel like God. Blessed us with this rainbow baby

Trish: after so much suffering. Yeah,

and it's so, it's so beautiful. I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk some faith stuff right now too, for those of you guys that you know maybe are not Christians. You, you know, I love all of you, but for me, I feel like there's always this moment where. God reminds you how much he loves you and especially after seasons of suffering.

I remember when like totally unrelated, but when I met my husband now after being [00:27:00] in a very long. Mentally, emotionally, physically abusive relationship. I remember the day my husband and I met for coffee for first time. We got married 20 days later, by the way, but I got out and I just felt this whisper.

Spur of comfort over me. And I like to say it came from God where he was like, see, I do love you because I doubted for a while with all of our suffering, like, do you actually care? And I think when you have moments like your birth and you're reminded not only how powerful God is, but how powerful you are.

It's such a healing, and that's why the VBAC lab is also subtitled your redemptive birth. Oh, I heard. And that is whether or not you have a vaginal delivery. That's what I wanna point out to all of you guys joining the VBAC lab, pursuing a VBAC C. Is not just about having a vaginal delivery, it's [00:28:00] about making your own freaking decisions and owning your own birth, and that includes choosing potentially a second C-section, but you chose it and that is redemptive in itself.

You know,

Alicia: just having the power back, right? Mm-hmm. To be able to say, yes, I need this, whatever it is, right? Mm-hmm.

Trish: Or no, I don't want

Alicia: that exactly. Exactly. I love it. So I just, I really, I, there were moments in the actual, like pushing, you know, and intensity of that experience there. I was like calling out to God, like, okay, Jesus, you gotta help me take the wheel.

You know? Yeah. But never once did I say I can't do it. Right. Never once did I say, I don't think, you know, take me to the hospital, like, give me some kind of, I just, I really, I was determined that this [00:29:00] was gonna happen and I believed that, that God was gonna help me make that happen. Right. I love that so

Trish: much.

Alicia: I felt like everybody that was with me was in support of that. I never let like anybody go on and on in my pregnancy about anything that was negative about a VBAC. I love it. Did you use

Trish: my hands up stump technique?

Alicia: Oh yeah. Yeah. I would just walk away like, you know, I just, I'm not even interested. Yeah, I don't have the energy.

There is so

Trish: much power in that right there. Alicia, I wanna stop you for a second. For those of you guys listening. Take the power in little steps throughout your pregnancy so that you're so confident, and one of the ways that you can do so is when everyone and their cousin wants to tell you their horrible birth story or the reason why you shouldn't try for a VBAC lab.

Put your hand up in the universal sign of. Stop and say, Hey, I appreciate you wanting to share your story, but we've [00:30:00] made the decision that we don't wanna hear any birth stories until after we give birth. Then we can get together and we can share each other's stories. It's respectful still, but it stops that.

I don't know why women are so ready to tell pregnant women horror stories. Like it's insane to me.

Alicia: It is. It is. Yes. So, you know, I, I didn't entertain any of those things. You know, during my pregnancy and if people were not supportive, I just changed the subject, you know? Yeah. We just,

Trish: I love that.

Alicia: I ignored it and went on

Trish: so smart.

Alicia: So yeah, that was, that was the experience. My postpartum experience, was night and day compared to my C-section, and I was just so grateful to be able to. Just walk around, right? To be able to get up and like, not be, you know, bedbound basically, or feel like I'm solely dependent on my partner to do everything for both me and the baby, you know?

And I did the 5, 5, 5 rule, during this postpartum period [00:31:00] as much as I could. Just to try to make sure that I was healing appropriately and really making sure that I was taking care of myself during that postpartum period. And I feel like that, let me tell everybody,

Trish: so the 5, 5, 5 is something that we recommend to our students, which is five days in the bed, five days on the bed, and five BA days near the bed.

And if you're still pregnant and you're like, well, I'm not gonna have any problems with that, trust me, you will. It's very hard. There's something that happens in you. And I think part of it is because we are just like. Caretakers and as women, we like to get stuff done and let's say sometimes our partners don't do it the way we want them to do it or what have you.

So it is an internal battle and I know a lot of my mom's battle with thoughts of like, I should be up and doing more. I should be helping more. Like I need to do this and that. No, you just need to take care of you and baby. Period.

Alicia: Yeah. So I had [00:32:00] told my husband ahead of time about that. I said, this is my plan, right?

So you're gonna be in charge of our older son and I'll take care of the baby, but like we're, I'm just gonna stay in bed, you know, like for these amounts of times and this is what it's gonna look like. And. And within a few days I felt almost back to myself, Trish, which again is that piece of like, okay, now I have to really be cognizant of making sure that I am staying in bed even though I feel like I'm yeah, kind of back to normal.

I needed to do that to take care of my body. And so, I made sure to do that. And although, you know, the soreness was different. I was able to feed my baby without pain. I, I mean the, it was just night and day. Well, here's the

Trish: big question. Did you get hemorrhoids?

Alicia: Well, I already had one. Because

Trish: those, I swear after vaginal delivery can be

Alicia: Ugh.

Yeah. It, it inflamed it dramatically. And, I could feel that the [00:33:00] midwives were like trying to, to help keep it, you know, from Yeah. Flaring too much during, during birth. But it was, you know, there's only, yeah, they got

Trish: a mind of their own.

Alicia: Exactly right. So, so, you know, I gotta live with that, right? Yeah.

But most women and,

Trish: well, that's another reason to stay on the bed. Do those things, use your sits bath. Mm-hmm. I, I'm so happy that you came today and shared this story and I would love for you, 'cause you guys all know that I also have a coaching business and I'm really vying for the day that Alicia joins our coaching master.

Tell everybody like, what? Because you do something really powerful. So share that plan that you have, you know?

Alicia: Yeah. So I am a licensed clinical social worker in California, and I have my certification in per mental, perinatal mental health. So all things, you know, infertility, miscarriage loss.

You know, postpartum experiences of depression, all the things that

Trish: [00:34:00] women hush and don't talk about.

Alicia: Exactly, exactly. And so because of my own experiences, I, I decided this was like something that was so needed in terms of especially my area and, and in the mental health world. And so I pursued that and I'm doing my own private practice now.

And, yeah, my, my ideas to maybe, create. Like an online space for women, who, you know, are struggling in these different areas. And, so yeah, I'm, I'm interested in that and, and looking at, you know, pursuing that down the road. But, currently open to seeing any clients in the state of California, either virtually or in person, to address those issues.

And it's just, well, and

Trish: it's so. So desperately needed. I have so many students that are in rural or places where there is no one local, no one that they can get help from. Like, and I'm picturing one of my students, her baby is over a year now and she's still [00:35:00] really struggling hard and she lives in a area where there's no one accessible.

Alicia: Yeah. It's so, and it, and

Trish: it can't just be anyone. It really needs to be someone who is trained in this area.

Alicia: It does it, I feel like there's a different understanding after you've experienced these things. And you know, of course it's not ever gonna be exactly the same, but to have this new awareness is.

Life changing. Life changing.

Trish: Yeah.

Alicia: So I

Trish: feel that that's how it was for me after I had my losses. Mm-hmm. For my ability to care for the moms who came in, who I, right away on their records, saw that they had had, you know, losses. It changed for me.

Alicia: Mm-hmm. Once I

Trish: had my losses.

Alicia: Yeah. Because you just, you can't fully comprehend it until you've experienced something like that.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. That death is so intimate because it happens within ourselves.

Trish: Yeah. It's different.

Alicia: Totally different. [00:36:00]

Trish: I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming today, Alicia. You're welcome. And sharing your journey, and we're so glad that we got to play a role in that and go VBAC moms like, we've got to change this culture.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for joining us today and listening to Alicia's Incredible HBAC instead of VBAC journey, her home birth, vba C. Her story is a powerful testament to the strength and determination of women who are committed to having the birth experience they desire. So if Alicia's story resonated with you and you're inspired to take control of your own birth journey, you should.

Should be. I invite you to explore the VBAC lab. Our community is filled to the brim with supportive VBAC mamas and myself and my doulas, who want you to have an empowered, informed birth. [00:37:00] Also, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode. We come at you every Friday morning.

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Until next time, remember, you are powerful. You are capable. You have the right to birth the way you want. Thank you for tuning in. I'll see you again next Friday. Bye for [00:38:00] now.