What's going on, everybody?

I'm fine.

Okay.

Wow.

I'm Derek.

I'm John.

I'm John.

We got John here.

It's John's son John, AKA Madcalf.

Madcalf.

I like it.

Yeah.

And the mad cow.

So see, there you go.

Or AKA per my daughter.

What was it?

Little cow.

Yeah.

Now she calls him Madcalf.

That's pretty good, though.

Madcap's pretty awesome.

Yeah, I like it.

I think you're the one who gave it.

I think Nick came up with it.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, I think Nick came up with it.

I know.

We were gaming one day.

Yeah.

And when we were gaming, Serenity was running through names that we were jokingly calling.

And then the next day it came up because we were gaming again.

The next day it came up and Nick had came up with the name Madcalf.

Oh, okay.

I don't know who did it.

I just know somebody at this church gave me the nickname Madcalf.

And now it's stuck.

Yep, it's pretty good.

Well, I told you about it and you liked it, so I was like.

Yeah, it stuck so well that I'm probably gonna put it on my license plate.

Nice.

Yeah, that's dope.

I still gotta put Madcal on one.

Yeah, probably never will happen.

He's, you know, like that.

What do you mean it'll happen?

No, I probably won't.

Yeah, it's the old man.

It's being able to purchase.

If I could purchase it myself.

Yes, but no.

My wife, she just pays for the tags each year.

I want to get a cool Road America one because we have that up there in Wisconsin.

It's a really cool blacked out license plate with just the track on it.

Yeah, nice.

See, it's either get a novelty tag or get one of their special ones.

And if I get that, I can't put on there what I want because you have too many letters.

How many letters are you allowed?

Six.

Well, it depends.

Florida lets you have seven, sometimes eight.

Yeah, it's kind of strange how some.

Some tags are more, some tags are less.

It's like, I don't know, I've always seen six, so.

Well, you can have.

I mean, Florida's average is seven.

Person.

You're not a Floridian.

Yeah, me neither.

Dude.

Like, once they made everything where you could do literally everything online.

Screw that, I ain't going in.

Yeah, you send me the renewal thing, I will send you the money.

We're good.

Two years at a Time.

I'm not dealing with that yearly.

No.

No way.

His mom will deal with the yearly.

Yeah.

So like I said, I don't get to see it.

If I see it, I.

Hey, I want to do this.

And then she'll see, oh, it's an extra charge.

We're not doing it.

Okay, whatever.

I don't care.

Well, somebody's got to keep you in line.

That's it.

Somebody's got to keep you in line.

All right, so today we are talking about.

Justice.

Justice.

There's a lot.

There's a lot of people.

Justice is like a trigger word.

Kind of like the word trigger.

I think people get it mixed up with other things.

Well, I mean, like, there's a lot of.

A lot of that word going around.

So, like, you got, like, what, social justice and all that.

That's a big hot.

It's just like, people have my truth, so people have my justice.

Everyone has an individual thing of justice, and we need to.

Justice comes from one place.

God has already laid out what that looks like.

There's a set of moral rules and moral standards that everyone needs to be held to.

But again, it's like our truth.

Oh, this is my truth.

No, there's only one truth.

And when you start saying, I have a different truth than you, then we get into anarchy when you start doing the same thing for justice.

So there's this justice.

No, there's one form of justice.

And if we keep everyone to that standard, then it's fine.

But when everyone starts talking about their own justice, then we end up getting anarchy and chaos.

Also, like with justice, there's fairness.

Too many people don't realize that can't always be too fair.

Like, this world sucks.

But they only want their fairness.

They don't want fairness for everyone else.

Right.

Without a certain standard for justice, how can you show grace and mercy?

You're giving the person who has set that standard of what it looks like you're taking away them being able to show grace and mercy if you have your own standard of justice and they have their own standard.

Because now you have to judge everybody differently, or you're expecting somebody to be judged differently.

See, that's where relativism doesn't work.

The idea that what I believe applies only to me, and that's okay, and whatever you believe applies to you and that's okay.

Where the breakdown happens is whenever we interact with one another.

Right.

It's great if you can completely seclude yourself, you know, from everybody else.

But as soon as you interact with somebody Else, you are now in this weird gray area where relativism can't work, because I may think that it's completely okay for me to murder you.

And you probably don't agree, right?

So, like.

But if you're gonna.

If you're gonna keep true to my.

My relative beliefs, then you've kind of got to accept that it's okay that I'm going to murder you, because I think that it's okay to do so.

And.

And that's where the breakdown happens, because there's nobody who's just gonna be like, yep, you're right.

It's.

This is what you.

What you believe is okay.

And, you know, that's just not gonna happen.

So, yeah, when it comes to interacting with one another, that's where the breakdown happens of the.

Your truth, my truth, you know, same thing with justice.

Like, if I have a set of rules for justice and you have a set of rules for justice, whenever it comes to interacting with one another, that's where the major breakdown ends up happening.

People think.

I mean, we see that in our own country already.

There's different rules for different people.

Our own government is constantly, you know, they can't just live by one set of rules.

They got to make everybody happy.

You can't.

You can't live in a society where everybody is happy on how they want to be happy.

We're not promised happiness.

And if you start promising that and doing that, you get the craziness that you have.

Nobody's living by any standards.

Everyone's living by their own, and nobody knows what that is.

That's why.

And that's part of the reason why.

So if you've been listening to our men's podcast, you know that we're.

We're going through, like, a Bible study that John kind of has put together and has created.

Mad cow.

Big, Big John, I'm sure.

Old cow.

Old cow.

I don't know the word for old cow.

That would be old.

Stubborn.

There's a list of words.

Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait.

You're probably more stubborn than I am, and you're not as old as I am, so you can't say it's stubborn.

I don't know.

We'll see.

The reason.

The reason, though, that.

That I actually initially looked for another definition of justice, because that's what you've got started here, is because the word.

We probably need to pray to officially kick this thing off.

We will.

I want to define.

I don't.

I want to define justice first.

Just checking.

And then.

And Then we'll do that.

You're right.

We do need to pray.

I won't forget.

We're just getting into it and I wanted to make sure we pray and kick it off.

So you've got a word here called equity.

And I don't like that word because a lot of people throw that word.

Around the Bible like that word.

Yeah, but that's.

It's.

I'm just messing with it.

Equity is.

Is the idea that equal outcome sounds.

Like my house, I think.

But I think what they were meaning was if there's one standard of justice, the outcome is going to be the same for everybody.

But if we have.

If everyone's thinking that, I get it, there should be a different outcome then.

But there's not equity in there.

It prompted me searching for another definite point.

And I get that as far as, like in a courtroom setting and that sort of thing, like justice being served or whatever, that.

That makes sense kind of.

I mean, as long as we're talking about equity being if you commit this crime or you do this thing, you get this thing, you know, the sentencing.

Not if you commit this crime.

This crime, all the crimes, whatever the crimes are, you get the same as whatever.

No, that's not what it means.

That there's going to be.

Everyone's going to be punished.

Just like if you put your money into a bank at different times, people are going to have different equity coming out, but you're going to have something on the back end.

Why definition of terms is super important, and this is speaking to everybody, that defining your terms is really important.

Because most people, I would say in today's society would say that equity means that regardless of the crime, everyone gets the same punishment.

And technically within Christianity, that's true.

Right.

Because the wages of sin is death, you know, so.

And, and the gift of God is eternal life.

So like it.

As far as.

If you're talking about that, that's true, but that's not what we're talking about.

So there's different.

There's different outcomes for different things that are done.

Right.

And so when, when somebody is being just, they have to fit the time to the crime.

That's what we're talking about.

But while somebody's being just, they can still show mercy and grace.

So they can still give them, but not with inequity.

That's what I'm saying.

They can still give.

Well, even with equity, equity isn't that.

The punishment's the same.

Equity is everyone's going to be punished, everyone's going To.

There's a standard and everyone's going to have to.

The outcome is.

That's the problem.

And that's what I was going to say, was that the definition of equity versus equality, but it's not the same.

I think, of equity as when you put money in the bank.

If you put money into a.

Let's just say a stock.

If you put something into a stock before I did, later on I put something into the stock, your equity is going to be higher.

You're getting something.

You're still getting equity out of it.

You're still going to get something.

But I'm going to have a different amount because I put in later or I put in when the percentage was lower or higher, whatever it is.

So the outcome is.

It's equity.

You're going to get something back, but the standard on what you get back is going to be different for everybody.

I understand that's how you were looking at it.

No, that's the basic term of equity.

That's not how most people look at it.

Equality is what you're describing.

Equality is everybody's getting the same outcome.

Equity is you're going to get something, but it's not going to be the same.

I don't think that that's how most people see it, though.

Well, I mean, if you take the true form of the definition, that's how you have to see it.

This is when everyone starts throwing in.

Their own idea, changing definitions.

But we're not changing definition.

Equity's always been that way.

You're not changing definitions.

I'm saying society.

And there's the problem.

Constantly changing definitions.

And that's why we have to define them.

No, but if we.

Okay, we can define the terms, but we can't change the definition.

Equity is what it is.

This is the same.

When we start talking about justice, everyone starts changing it.

And everyone has their own justice.

We're not changing the definition for justice for everybody.

We're telling them this is what it is.

You tell them this is what equality is.

This is what equity is.

This is why they say equity.

But that's why we have to define our terms.

Because you may say something that I don't see the same way.

And if we're not on the same page, then we think we're talking about two different things.

I got it.

So, I mean, I'm just saying we can't change the definition because somebody thinks it's that way.

Because somebody thinks, oh, that's not.

That's not how I see it.

Well, sorry, that's how it is.

Well, truth is truth until.

Until they change it as a whole.

Aren't there different levels of sin anyway?

No.

All right.

Okay.

So this is a whole different topic.

I.

I disagree, but agree at the same time.

Same.

Because I know that the same outcome is no matter what death.

But I've also heard that there are different levels of punishment.

And then it would make sense.

There's different levels of consequences.

Consequences are different.

But God's.

But we're looking at God and his standard sin is sin.

Sin separates you from God.

That's the punishment.

That's the ultimate punishment.

But the person who is showing justice can give a different form of discipline.

And God does that himself.

I only bring that up because of the before, like, because I don't know if that would help with the equity thing, but.

Well, there's.

There's.

If you play it like a stock and somebody sinning longer than another person, then, you know, it could still.

That just The.

The only difference comes with that we know of.

So I should qualify it with that.

Because we don't know if there's different levels of punishment in hell.

We don't know any of that for sure.

Like, we don't.

We don't.

That's all that was all, like, made up.

Like the whole.

What is it, nine, seven layers or whatever.

Catholicism.

They came up and did the different grades of sin.

Oh, this one's more.

This one's worse than this one.

So you're gonna give a different penance.

Penance was just to pay back the church for your sin.

Holy Grail.

And then you can go to three if you did worse.

Right.

Well, originally, penance started.

So you give money, you pay your taxes to the church.

Oh, this is a really bad sin.

You got to pay more than this person.

That's how it started.

But God doesn't see it that way.

Right.

Look, he cast Adam and Eve out of paradise for eating an apple.

Yeah.

All they did was disobey him.

Or fruit.

Well, it doesn't.

I like to think of it as an apple because I hate it.

Is a fruit.

Products.

So.

But it is a fruit.

I didn't mean an apple.

But you guys get the big bite out of the.

You guys know what I'm talking about.

The original sin.

David goes around Macintosh rapes Bathsheba, murders her husband to cover it up.

And his punishment.

I mean, he lost a kid.

But when people.

That's a hefty freaking punishment.

That is a hefty punishment.

But again.

And I think that's I hate calling it a punishment.

It's a consequence.

It's a consequence.

It's a consequence.

Punishment is different than consequences.

And it's different than discipline, too.

Punishment has this idea that there's like, I don't know, anger involved with this thing.

And it's like an unbridled, like, unstrategic dealing of what they would consider justice.

Right.

Like, with their.

So I don't like to attribute that.

That was a wrong word because I don't like to say punishment either.

Yeah, I just.

But, yeah, I think that discipline or consequences is the better.

We don't see the big picture.

We don't see the big picture like God does.

They had to do nothing in the garden.

Everything grew.

They didn't have to work.

They didn't do nothing.

Everything was provided for them.

All they needed.

And God kicked them out of that.

Then they had to work.

They were going to cut their hands on thorns and they were going to do all this stuff.

But the bigger picture was if God allowed them to stay in the garden, then they can eat from the tree of life and live forever.

Separated by God.

He couldn't have that happen.

He could not have his creation separated from him forever.

So he had to push them out of the garden.

God couldn't allow David's son to come into the world the way that David did it.

This is like a side tangent, but I heard something about the garden that was really cool.

And it shows that Jesus was there because God is the omnipotent being.

So he never had a physical form.

But when you read Genesis, they.

You read that they heard footsteps, which Jesus is the only physical incantation of that.

So that means that Jesus was there in the garden with Adam and Eve and Eve, which I thought was, like, really cool.

That is pretty dope.

Yeah.

To think about shows that he was there in the beginning, which obviously we know reading Genesis 1, but.

Right.

Just hearing that as well, I was like, wow, I didn't even recognize that.

But, yeah.

God isn't a physical form.

You know, I'm nipped in it.

So that means that the only physical way to hear his footsteps was Jesus.

Interesting.

Never thought about that before either.

Yeah.

Most people miss those little things.

Yeah.

And that's why every time you go back through, you find something.

Because there's only a few times to pick up on.

Right.

There's only a few times you hear them write footsteps.

It's only when Jesus.

Yeah, it's only with Jesus.

Yep.

Jesus, they.

They could see his physical footsteps.

And then you Heard him.

They heard him walking in the garden.

Because every time God came, talked to Moses and stuff, he came and talked.

He never walked.

Always heard his voice.

It was always through some kind of.

I thought that was pretty cool when that was pointed out, too.

We miss those little things.

But bring it back to justice.

Yes, all right.

Bringing it back.

So the definition that you initially had put was conforming to a standard of correctness, righteousness, fairness, equity, the act, process, or state of being declared right with God.

Not a terrible definition of it.

But when I looked it up online, I saw for whatever, the Oxford Dictionary or whatever, behaving according to what is morally right and fair, the quality of being fair and reasonable, the administration of the law or authority in maintaining this.

Also, justice is the ethical, philosophical idea that people are to be treated impartially, fairly, properly and reasonably by the law and by the arbiters of the law, that laws are to ensure that no harm befalls another, and that where harm is alleged, a remedial action is taken.

Both the accuser and the accused receive a morally right consequence merited by their actions.

And I think that that is a solid definition for what we're getting ready to talk about as far as, like, how we are to deal with justice in others and, you know, enacting that with each other, especially when it comes to accountability and that sort of thing.

So when I wrote this, I did look up definitions, but my thing is I got to set the standard and who has the standard.

So I took definitions that were in that the Bible gave because I wanted it to stay.

This is God's standard.

And not saying that the Bible, the definitions in the back are from God's mouth or whatever.

But it's still.

There had to be something that we can all turn to for the same thing.

Because you can go on the Internet and you can find multiple different reasons.

And I know the Oxford, the Webster, all those things, they're constantly changing, taking words out, changing definitions of words.

And I didn't want to get caught up in that.

I wanted to get caught up.

This is the basic meaning.

And then our discussion will take it deeper into this is how God is meaning for us to do it.

That was the only reason why I kept it.

I just.

When we're.

When we're talking about terms, it's one of those things.

It's like we gotta have a definition that everybody that is understandable to everybody, so that everybody can be on the same page.

So I get it.

I just didn't want people to go pulling up justice from different sources and getting different definitions and still thinking they have their own.

That's two different sources.

That's actually two different sources that I've got here that I read through.

And really, they're the same.

It's just rewording and being a little bit more specific.

I actually think the last one deals the best with the rest of this study as far as, like, I mean, we're talking about.

I'm talking about what.

What the law is, what we were given, right?

The law is written on our hearts.

The law.

We are arbiters, the law in this sense.

We're the ones that enact that justice here on earth.

And we are called to a high standard as far as how we go about doing that.

And we have to be fair and right and properly impartially deal with these people.

Right?

So I know it almost sounds like a.

I just didn't want.

I didn't want people to start thinking that it was the government law or anything like that.

This is all based around.

This is what God says.

And this is the terms of the same, though.

The terms are the same.

We're talking about God's law here.

And hopefully, if.

If anybody's been listening to this podcast at all for any length of time, they know that we're talking about God's law, not man's law.

But, I mean, it's still God's law, right?

Like, we are still talking about the law that God has put on us.

But we should still obey man's law, too.

Absolutely.

It still applies to that as well.

We still got to respect our laws as well as God's.

Look, we are to follow God's law, I mean, man's law, until it contradicts God's law.

And then God's law supersedes 100%.

So buckle up, guys.

Welcome to warriors of Truth.

I'm a Christian, and by the word of God, I will live my life.

I will put on the armor of God each day to face evil wherever it may be.

With a fierce heart.

I will fight for God, family, and justice.

I will show compassion to those the world has forgotten.

I will put others before myself with a humble heart and serve.

My word is my bond.

I will take responsibility for all my doings and know that my brothers are watching and will answer to God one day.

I am Khalid rages.

I will not be defeated.

I will not fail.

I will be victorious.

I am more than a conqueror.

All right, John, I'm going.

Have you pray.

Okay.

Father God, we love you.

We thank you for this day.

We thank you for our friendship that's here in this room.

I thank you for my son.

We invite you here to be with us during this discussion.

We pray for those that are listening that it may impact.

It may spark some questions where they reach out to a close friend, a friend who may be a little further in their walk, or just someone that they know that they can come and have questions and hopefully have some of the.

Some of their questions answered or even they go and find the answers together.

So we just ask for hearts to be open.

We ask for the discussion to be fulfilling and that we can have a good day the rest of this day.

We love you, Father, and it's in Jesus name that we pray.

Amen.

You also don't have the problem of man bun.

Man bun.

I can't stand man bun.

You're bald.

That's why I don't have one.

Hey, look, man.

I look at it.

It's the only time somebody looks at me as, like, man, right?

No, when I say man bun, they.

Have to say man bun in order to say so.

I get attributed the man part of that.

I will no longer.

And that is a win for me.

I will no longer call it a man bun now that you said that.

Okay, well, because I can't look at.

I will just look at as a.

Girly bun or something.

A sissy bun.

A sissy bun.

Okay.

You can give one to stick a plunger to the back of his head.

That would be funny, but it wouldn't happen.

Challenge accepted.

I think I got enough guys I.

Could ride and just shave your.

Yeah, shave your beard off.

See, when people get to go into the shaving thing, I gotta stop.

I'm not gonna.

I'm not.

I'm not attempting that.

My wife said that if I shaved this and had the mutton chops, that she would shave my eyebrows.

And I'm like, okay, you win.

Like, I don't.

I'm not.

I'm not pitying it.

If you can dish it out, be ready for what I give back.

Okay.

Sticking a plunger to your head is different than taking off my beard.

It's 100% dish.

It's 100% different.

But it's just as humiliating for me as shaving your beard wouldn't.

You're humiliating.

It took me seconds.

Look, this takes years.

It's humiliating enough to say that this took three years to get this way, Right?

Like, that's.

Some people just have a hard time growing.

I know, right?

Like, I can get To.

I can get to where you're at real quick.

And then it dies out.

Two and a half years to get to here.

I'm just saying.

So, all right, so why are we.

To show justice to others.

Go.

Micah 6, 8 tells us why we should.

Micah was written probably one of the last prophets that spoke before Jesus, time before the coming, the second coming, where the first coming was.

And so I think it's important when God gives a command or is telling the people something when he hasn't spoken to them for 400 years.

So this is.

That's what I've heard.

Micah is about 400 years before the New Testament starts coming about.

And it's some of the last stuff that God wanted to say to his people.

So that's why this verse is in here.

I picked up the wrong one.

I don't know why.

That was stupid.

Sorry, give me a minute.

I'm a little slow.

We know not Malachi.

I can read it.

You already got it pulled up?

Yeah.

He has told you, mortal one, what is good and what does the Lord require of you, but to do just to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God?

And in the esv, it says to do justice.

So.

Not saying anything different.

I'm just saying that was.

That's what I said.

I thought you said just.

I didn't hear the s.

That's okay.

It's all good.

It means the same thing.

Gotcha.

So by definition it does.

Yeah, just me.

So God's calling us all to act this way in order to.

I think they all go together.

The kindness, justice.

It's hard to show kindness if you're not first being just with other people.

And so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

So.

Alright, so let's get like real with each other here.

Welcome to how this works, John.

So I want to go around and we can just discuss one area, but when, where or who is it hardest to act justly towards, like personally?

I mean, when it comes to like us as guys and we're listening to a podcast, it's real easy to be like, yeah, I don't do that.

I'm.

I'm pretty solid.

I can, you know, it's easy to dismiss some of that stuff, but I think we need to get real.

I think we need to show a little bit more of the vulnerability side, which I think we've done on here.

But so when, where or who is it hardest for you, John, to act justly toward.

Mad cow people that I have pre determined or just like prejudged Before I even got to know them, I look at them or people who just constantly do stupid things.

It's hard for me to do that.

You know, I hear people talk or do certain things and instantly, oh, okay, that's what this person is.

And that's just what I do.

I just pre judge the people based on how I think that they should be talking or things that they should be doing or whatever.

So that's hardest for me with those people like that, because I've already went in with a pre determination or a pre idea of what I think.

So, you know, it's the same.

I mean, yes, I do care for people who are homeless, but you start telling me your story and you're homeless because you put yourself in that situation.

Whatever, you put yourself there.

Why do I need to help you out?

And unfortunately, that's not what we're called to do.

But that's what I do.

I mean, I'm human and I try not to.

Something I work on.

So that's why the question is, what's the hardest?

I know.

That's why I put the question in there.

Solid, Solid.

All right, I'm gonna make you answer before I answer.

I think people at work, people I'm nice to, and then they go and do something stupid or piss me off, and it's like, yeah, yeah, I want to lash out at you, but I can't.

So that, for me is the hardest.

I can see that.

Can see that.

For me, it's church people.

Like people that have been in the church for, you know, at least five years or whatever, or they claim to have been in the church and Christians their whole life or whatever.

Like, I'm really harsh towards those people.

I am way more lenient to somebody who I know is a baby Christian or isn't a believer.

I'll be way, way more lenient towards those people because they're new to it.

They haven't claimed to be established in understanding of God's word.

And so when it comes to somebody who has been in the church for 30 years, like, I have.

Well, I guess technically I'm 36, so I've been in the church for 36 years, but claiming to be a believer for 31 years now, I guess, like, for those people, like, I have a hard time giving them a fair, impartial, you know, equitable sense of justice.

Like, I.

To me, you know better.

And like, I see the example of Jesus in that, like, he.

He dealt a lot more harshly with.

With the people who claimed to have been in the know or.

Or arbiters of the law, really, for.

For a long time.

And I understand that, you know, my righteousness is not the same as God's righteousness.

Jesus righteousness was perfect, whereas.

Or righteous anger, I should say.

His righteous anger was not the same as my anger.

So I get that piece.

But, man, it's still really, really tough for me to just treat them like everybody else as far as, you know, hey, man, really shouldn't act that way or whatever that might be.

So I had the same problem.

I have a lot of issues.

Thanks.

Thanks for just pointing them out.

Hey, I am here to point out your issues.

Yeah.

That is one of my problems too.

People who know better.

Yeah.

I mean, I think I did it to my son too.

When he was younger, he'd have his friends over.

They'd be playing and, okay, that's fine.

Play in your room.

Do it.

His friends would have to leave, and he wouldn't want to clean his room up.

And I'm like, no, it doesn't work this way.

But I didn't make the mess.

Oh, your friends did?

Yeah.

And if you didn't stop.

So I could.

I mean, I know that I could have been a little harsh, but part of it was like, you need to learn that this is the right thing to do.

You're gonna have friends over.

Make sure you clean the room before they leave.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Otherwise you're gonna be stuck doing it yourself.

But that's a form of, you know, how I could be a little harsh or expect for people who know better.

I have higher standards for them, and I expect a lot more out of them.

I'm typically described as a hand grenade when it comes to dealing with people in the church.

So, you know, you pull that pen and toss me, it's too late.

Like, you can't put that pen back in.

I can say, though, being a leader in the church has helped me stop before I react or before I say something, actually stop and think about what I'm going to say and how I need to approach it.

So I think I've been working on that a little better.

It doesn't change my thought process.

It still doesn't change that I expect more of you.

I expect better from you.

But it has allowed me to slow down a little bit more and tried not to react and just, okay, is this going to take extra grace and dip into that?

Extra grace egr.

Extra grace required.

You know, Okay.

I don't get too upset with the church people because I know where I was When I claimed to be a Christian and I didn't act like it.

So I'll see some of my brothers at my church, start acting out, away from church.

And I'm like.

I get disappointed, but it's like, it's okay.

Like, they still have a lot to learn and a lot on their walk.

Let's not do that again.

But I'm not gonna get mad at you for it.

Yeah, I don't know.

I know where I've been, and I can see them doing it, too.

And God had a lot of grace for me.

I need to have grace for you towards it.

I need to take a little bit of that and apply that to my.

Because I'm not there.

Like, I know I've done a lot of things wrong, but, like, I.

That's.

That's.

My thought process is like, I should know better.

And I treat myself that way, too.

Yeah.

So.

So, I mean, I should have a little bit more grace with myself as well.

Right.

But.

And so I do.

I hold.

I hold church people.

I mean, and I call church people church people that are, like, who have been in it, that know better.

Like, now.

I'm not talking about baby Christians.

I'm not talking about people who are new to the church who have been going to church a couple years, but they're still new to it all.

Like, I'm not talking about those people.

I'm talking about the people who are established in the church who could lead a Bible study probably.

You know, like, who should be probably leading some kind of discipleship group anyways.

But it's those people.

When I say church people, that's the people I'm talking about.

And not everybody acts that way.

I'm just saying I hold all of them to the same standard.

I hold myself, which is not really right.

Or just to be honest, it's not.

Just for us to hold people to the same standards or.

Well, it is just we need to hold it to the standards that God has placed.

Right?

So I go back to convictions.

We all have our own convictions, and sometimes we hold others around us to the same convictions that we have, and it's not fair to that person because God didn't give them that conviction.

And it's something that's taken time for me to realize that this is my conviction.

This is what I have to work on.

I can't expect.

But I go in.

That's hard to discern.

I go in with the same convictions on myself and expect everyone to have those convictions.

And it's like, God hasn't given everyone those convictions.

I know we've butted heads over some of those kinds of things.

He's given them to me.

So I have to stop and know, okay, this is me, not you.

I think I put out a Bible study one morning that really said it to me.

And I hadn't taken this verse and looked at it that way, but it was like, we got to stop holding everyone to our convictions because that's going to bring more strife into the church and more separation and it's going to put pressure on those other people that wasn't meant for them to have pressure.

Yeah.

And so, but we tend to do that with justice.

We get convicted with what justice is, especially people who have their own justice.

And we expect everyone around us to have that same thing.

But if you're expecting a different justice than I am, then how can you expect me, you know, and this is why we have to.

What does, what is justice?

And especially us as Christians.

Okay, What's God ask us of this justice?

So we have got to have that firm definition of what God is saying.

This is just.

And this is how you act to also.

Now why do we have to do it?

Because God requires us of it.

Well, and I think that's.

That's why.

And you can look at the church history, right, and see that that's why it's important for us to remember that it needs to be impartial, it needs to be fair, it needs to be properly and reasonably by the law that God has set out.

Because if not, it leads to things like the Crusades, right, Where they took justice in their own hands and did whatever they wanted to with it and went way off track from what God had originally planned, right?

That was headed by the church, by corrupt, power hungry church people.

But it was.

Everybody can look back in history and be like, okay, well what about the Crusades?

And that is justice left unchecked by power hungry people.

And we have to keep ourselves in shape.

That's why back in Micah, he says, you're required to act justly or act with justice and kindness.

Because if we go in with, just remember God's writing to the Jews at this point, before Jesus is coming, before he's coming to redeem his people.

And if you just go by justice alone and this is what the law says, then we start getting legalistic.

And that's what the Jews did.

They left the whole kindness out.

They left the whole grace part out, imagine.

And mercy part out.

Imagine if the Pharisees took that verse and actually Enacted it with Jesus.

He would have never been crucified.

He wouldn't.

But I mean, I mean, like, imagine if they actually did what they were told to do, you know what I mean?

With just that verse, right?

But they didn't.

They took what they were told.

They took the 700 and something laws that they were giving and put it in and this is what it is.

And they became legalistic, very legalistic to.

Say something on that.

I told myself that recently.

Like I sit here and talk about the Jews today and how they're still doing the same thing.

And the generation, when they were in the wilderness and everything, they continued to disobey and complain.

And then I sit back and I'm like, dang, that's what we do today.

Still.

We're still just as bad.

We still fall into sin every day.

Your thoughts, your words and your actions, we're just as bad as they are.

Look, if there wasn't, if God didn't have grace.

So God's a standard for, for our justice.

What justice comes from what it looks like.

God is the standard.

But if he didn't have grace and mercy, we would all be dead.

Jesus never would have came.

So yes, we have to have a standard of where our justice starts.

But it can't end right there too.

It can't just be the law.

There has to be kindness.

There has to be that grace aspect that has to come in.

Jesus did expect a lot more from the Pharisees and Sadducees.

They knew the law.

They knew exactly what was supposed to happen.

They knew it almost probably as well as Jesus did.

And even when he was dealing with like Nicodemus, who really did seek Jesus, right?

Like he was like, aren't you supposed to be someone who knows the law?

But he approached him with more grace then he approached the other ones who were trying to trap him and do all those things.

But he still called him out, right?

We can still call him out.

We can still call him out.

But if he didn't treat them with grace and justice, they all would have like everyone else.

We never would have been able to have eternity with them.

So we too often talk about justice and we just leave it right there.

This is what, this is the standard of justice.

And boom, that's where we leave it.

Instead of acting, doing the process, we can talk about it and say, this is it and have somebody, you know, just that this is the rule.

But when we start putting the kindness in there and treating people with, you know, bringing the justice and then treating people with the kindness and everything, it's going to make a big difference for.

I'll let you go here in just a second.

Do you remember what you're gonna.

Okay, hang on, hang on.

So on.

That we also have to remember for the people that are newer in the church that don't feel like they're at a point where they can really be on that side of the coin.

Right.

Where they're like, holding people as accountable with authority.

Right.

That whenever somebody holds you accountable to give them grace, because they're not perfect and they're trying to live by the standard which God has also placed us.

So if somebody acts a little more harshly towards you than you would expect, but they are trying to do it in a loving manner, we got to have that mindset, too, that sometimes people say things that come off a little harder than they should and that we've got to ultimately go into it with a mindset that they are.

We're all working towards the best interest of each other.

Right.

And I know that's really hard in the world that we live in today.

But just for those of you out there who might be newer Christians or newer to this concept of holding each other accountable or, you know, justice in general, like, have a little bit of grace with those people who might.

You might see or come in contact with that might might come off as a little more harsh.

So I was just gonna say it's gonna backstep a little bit.

But talking about the Pharisees, and at the end of Micah 6, it says, and to walk humbly with your God, that was something that they never did.

They were never humble.

They were always very prideful, which is one of the terrible things to do as well.

Yeah.

When you look up justice, there's nothing in the New Testament that says justice.

Like, it's all Old Testament where the word justice comes up.

And we see that obviously that applies because of the law.

So that means when Jesus is around that he is the justice He.

That is what we're supposed to imitate and follow.

Yeah, that's great.

I mainly put this.

I mainly put justice in here because it's not just for ourselves, but as Christian men, we're required to fight for those who can't fight for themselves.

So when we see injustice happening, when we see people being treated in a way that is not fair, that is not according to God's word, it is not with love, we are all required to stand up and fight for that person.

I mean, Jesus did it for the harlot.

That was Thrown down at his feet.

And the Pharisees wanted to stone her.

He didn't have to physically stand up, but he just said that he defended her.

He didn't judge her.

He didn't cast her out and say, yeah, stone her.

But it's stuff like that that we forget to do.

We think it just relates to us, but we forget that there's children in our lives that we can stand up for and do things.

Not just our own children, if we have them, but children around us if we're in any part of the church.

There's kids there.

There's younger.

There's the younger people, if you're an older person.

And we tend to just say.

All of us tend to say, well, that doesn't.

That's not my battle.

No, it is our battle because that's what's required of us.

And I think too often that's what the Israelites were doing.

They were saying, oh, this isn't our battle.

We're not going to do that.

And they weren't standing up for what was right and what they needed to be standing up for.

They were treating everybody based off the law, and that was it.

And instead of showing kindness and grace and mercy while enacting the law.

So, I mean, yeah, you don't find anything in the New Testament.

I mean, everything I have in here is taking you back, other than maybe Luke, but that's going somewhere.

It's not talking about justice, really.

But it's crazy that back then they hammered the law too much.

And now we have churches today not hammering the law enough.

Too many churches that are allowing homosexuality in the church or allowing all this wrong stuff to go on.

And it's like we're now on the opposite of the coin of, like, well, now we're just getting too lenient.

We're not sticking to the word at all.

We're conforming instead of transforming.

We're too busy trying to fit in and be part of the church because we want people in our church.

Yes.

The more people have come in, the more money we bring in as a church.

Boom.

But you can't run it like a business.

I mean, that's a part.

But if you just focus on the business.

I'm holding you to that.

No, I mean, so there are aspects that we have to run like a business.

The money side has to still be ran like a business.

But the people side, we can't.

We can't conform to the world.

We can't say, oh, well, we can do this because we want people to come in.

No, we as a church have to give them the truth.

The truth is also where our justice comes from.

So you can't be afraid you're going to offend somebody or somebody's going to be rejected.

They're only rejected because they're rejecting the truth and too much.

We're trying to.

Well, we can't let anybody feel alienated and rejected.

No, that's not your choice.

That's not our choice to pick out who.

Look, man.

Who gets offended or whatever.

The truth is offensive.

The truth is offensive.

It is.

The truth is rough.

Yeah.

And it will.

It will set you free.

Absolutely.

All right, so how do you go about examining what God requires of you throughout the day?

Well, there's three questions that we can ask ourselves that we can not pit into situations, but put into situations, man.

Whoever wrote this was certainly missed that.

Are you fair when dealing with others?

I think that's something we have to.

I think, you know, in that aspect, we can't be reactive.

We have to everything.

We have to listen more, pause, and then talk or.

Especially if we're in leadership.

I mean, just like you told me.

God gives us one mouth and two ears.

Listen more, speak less.

We're supposed to listen twice as much as we speak.

That's what I've heard, and that's what I like to.

So if we're listening more, we have a better chance of dealing with everybody fairly.

We also.

We also have the opportunity to stop our own thought process for a moment and process through.

Right.

So, like, if I were to get into a situation, somebody was coming at me with something and.

And I take a breath and then I say something.

It has that moment of get past that initial.

My initial.

Right.

And actually kicks in that cognitive thinking process.

So, yeah, I like to also think it's giving space.

That little breath is giving space for the Holy Spirit to come in there and say something.

But if we're just totally reacting and speaking right off of what we're hearing.

Yeah, I never do that.

We're not.

Yeah.

Okay.

We're not giving the Holy Spirit that space to allow him to say, yeah, that's probably.

That's the.

Okay, yeah, that's an answer you could give.

But why don't you get this handle?

Why don't you respond this way instead?

Too often we do that.

We just.

We're just reactive and so we have to pause.

And so are we.

Are you dealing with.

Are you fair with dealing with others?

The next question is, do you show mercy to others who have wronged you or have wronged somebody else.

Whoever God has put into authority, whoever God has put into debt, where we have to put out discipline or something, at any moment we can show mercy.

We're required to show mercy.

But mercy isn't letting people off the hook.

No, no, but it's again, it's still.

The example that I like to give is the way that I handle disciplining my daughter or used to.

I guess she hasn't needed a swat in a while.

So.

But, so when I first started swatting her, I would swat immediately and that quickly went away because I knew that that is doing it in anger, you know what I mean?

Like if you don't have that breath.

Right.

But so what I ended up doing was whenever she did something that was worthy of a swat, I told her, alright, let's go to your room, you're gonna get a swat.

And she'd throw a fit and do all that.

And then I would count to three.

Then she'd earn herself another swat and the swats would rack up.

And then whenever she finally submitted to getting the swats, I would reduce that number by one.

And so I would tell her, all right, since you submitted, I'm only going to give you this many.

And so like, it's not.

I didn't let her off the hook.

No.

But I gave myself time to cool down and I was able to.

When she submitted to the discipline, I was able to show her, okay, since you submitted, I'm not giving you quite as many swats as we had talked about, you know, so I don't know that's how a practical, you know, way of showing mercy.

So John didn't get a lot of spankings growing up, but it was the same thing.

I didn't want to spank out of anger, so I'd always make him accept his punishment.

We'd sit there 30 minutes and he'd just be fighting it and not wanting it.

But look, you're still getting this.

It's just how much you want, it's up to you.

I didn't get a lot of spankings.

I got a lot of other torture.

Look, I've heard, look, there's punishments that.

Doesn'T have to, doesn't have to physically hurt that way.

Yeah, well, that was spankings.

There's certain things that require a spanking.

Sure, you know, blatant disobedience, lying to your faces.

Those things require it.

But also it's different per kid.

Not every kid.

It is.

Not every kid requires a Spot.

Nope.

Because it's not effective for every kid.

That's just.

Was the most effective thing for my kid.

Like I could put her in timeout and it would not, it would not do anything.

I think every kid.

There are some things that require a punishment.

If you make, if you make the swat, if you make the swat your go to punishment all the time, it's not gonna, it's not gonna mean anything.

But if you make the swat and they know why they're getting that.

I mean, there are times that God swats us, all of us, we need it.

Certain things.

You've said it before that my child has like a quadruple helping of stubbornness.

I need God to swap me upside the head all the time, right?

So I think that it's very different per kid.

But that's the part of justice that we have to remember, right, Is that each person is gonna require a little bit different handling because they are a different person.

They're unique.

They've got, they've got a different story than the last person you dealt with, whatever that might have been.

So when it comes to us, like interacting with people out and about, that's why it's super important to take a breath.

Because what you would.

What I might have said to Mad Cow is not gonna affect.

Is not gonna be the same thing I should say to Madcalf.

Although, you know, if you're as similar as I've heard, it's going to be not too far off, but it's still going to be different, right?

Like, that's the thing is it's still going to be different because that person has had different life experiences that has led them to the point in which they're at.

That's why our testimony doesn't sound the same every time we give it.

And it shouldn't.

Because if I'm talking to you about my testimony, John, like, I.

I'm going to tell you this part of it, because it's what is gonna affect you the most.

Because I've gotten to have a glimpse of whatever is going on with you.

Whether that's I met you on the street five minutes ago or I've known you a long time.

Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you something different than I might tell your son.

You know, like, because I've.

I've talked to him for this brief amount of time or whatever, and it's gonna apply differently.

So every person that we talk to, whether it's for administering justice or just interacting with, just having conversations with Growing that relationship, you're gonna take each person, and you need to take them as different people than the last person.

That's why I think that I'm decent at customer service, is that that person that made me mad on the phone five minutes ago doesn't affect the person that I just picked up the phone and said hello to.

So I think that's the best.

The best kind of customer service.

You know, when that person that made you angry, like, is.

That's gone.

This new person that's in front of you didn't make you angry.

It's a brand new person.

They have a different.

Different story, you know, and they may be upset, but, you know, you have to deal with them as though you didn't have anybody before them, you know, so.

And that's.

That's honestly how we need to be interacting with each other.

I think for most men, customer service is like that.

We can pull out a box, and then when we're done with that person, no matter how they drove us crazy, whatever, we can put that box away.

And when we're dealing with the next person, oh, there's that box.

I've said this before.

Men are like boxes and women are.

Or men are like waffles and women are like spaghetti.

Everything runs together with women.

So not all women, but most women, everything runs together.

So what happened over here is going to affect how they come home and interact with their spouse or whatever, because it all runs together for us.

We have our little squares, and everything goes into a square.

So that means if there's any women listening, which I'm sure there is, be patient with us and try not to open two boxes at once, because we can't put the divider back once you do that.

So it is forever than one larger box.

So just want to put that out there.

That's how that works.

Just know, maybe put the spaghetti away after your day at work and then start with a new plate of spaghetti.

When you come up at some point, if you've opened.

If you've opened all of the boxes at once, it's just a vault, and we get closed off.

So.

Yeah.

Right, right.

So what's the third thing?

Are you humble?

Are you humble?

And are you learning humility?

Look, that's all part of that.

I've been there.

The Micah.

Well, it's also part of that.

Micah 6.

I mean, like, you were.

Like you were.

You were talking, John.

We forget that.

Walking humbly with God.

He's used to that.

You're both having the same.

I'm Mad calf.

Like you said earlier, I've done all these things before in the past.

God's worked with me.

I have to remember that when talking to my brothers, that, okay, I need to walk with humility because I been there.

I've done the things I've made, the mistakes, whether they're the same thing or a different thing.

My spec.

Your spec thing.

I have to walk in that humility of, okay, take a breath.

I've been here.

I need to treat them just like I treat everybody else.

And, you know, when it comes to that.

So I also think that these can be quick questions that we're asking.

The last one you can't really ask yourself in a moment, but when you're trying to stand up for justice for someone who can't stand up for themselves or speak for however it may be, those other two questions can be something we can ask and give that split moment for the Holy Spirit.

We can still go in and fight for that person, but we still got to have fairness.

We still got.

I mean, yeah, sometimes it's gonna take force.

Sometimes it's gonna take actual physical, you know, subduing somebody so somebody can get away.

I hope I'm never put in that situation.

But.

But you should always take a breath.

Even a sniper takes a breath.

Yes.

I mean, that's the.

Seriously, for real, though, like, everybody.

Everybody who is trained and even doing that sort of thing, they take a breath and then do it.

Like, there is something to that moment of taking a breath before you act that allows a clarity of thought.

So the first two questions are what we can think about in that moment when we take that breath and allow the Holy Spirit to speak.

The other one is something that we have to continually to work on in ourselves.

I mean, you're really not thinking about being humble and stuff in that moment, but it's something that if you're doing throughout the day and you're constantly, okay, I need to stop.

But being humble is going to allow us, if we're practicing humility or learning how to be humble, we can stop and take that breath for the next few questions.

In any situation that we're facing, where we need to be just and treat others fairly.

That and honestly practicing it.

Practicing it will allow you to start approaching things with those, you know, with those two, with all three of the questions really, like, it will help you to get to a point where you just are doing it.

You know, the more you practice it, fake it till you make it.

You know, like, if you have to think about this stuff or have it written down, you know, every situation you take, tattoo it on your hand or whatever.

I don't, I don't know, that might be a little weird, but I got.

Certain things tattooed on my hand.

On your hand?

Yeah, same on your hand.

You do have it on your hand.

I never thought about that.

Look at you, you're all tatted up too.

Oh, he's got more.

I need to get, I need to get a tattoo.

I need to just do it.

I gotta get.

I can't afford it now.

I just quit my job, so.

That's true.

But you're going to afford it?

Yeah.

You'll be able to afford it.

I'll be able to afford it.

Yeah, I will.

Alright.

So are you a just person in your day to day life?

That's, that's.

There's a takeaway question, right?

Like something to just think about is like when you're, when you're just living life, are you, are you just, are you fulfilling the humility piece?

Are you dishing out mercy and grace?

Are you giving that whenever you're calling people out?

Because honestly, there's the speck and plank, right?

When it comes to that whole parable or whatever, like, you know, take the plank out of your eye before you help your neighbor with the spec like that.

Are you dealing with them in a manner in which is just.

Well, I think again, getting to know the people, spending time with them, having our four corner carriers, having our foxhole people, our men, whatever you want to call it.

There's different ways that we treat those guys.

And not unjust.

It's just you can be a little more harsh, accountability can be a little tougher.

So knowing the people you're around really helps.

I also think you can take it even to just your day to day with everybody you encounter.

I'm thinking about work and me being just and fair with the next guy that's coming in after me.

Did I set the machine up right?

Did I do everything for him to have a good day unlike he did for me?

I'm taking it even that far.

If you're not even doing that, then you're not gonna do it to your fellow Christian brother at all.

Well, I think we need to take it even further than that.

Even your home, your kids and your wife.

It's not just that the person did it for me.

So where I work, I tried to head to philosophy.

I'm going to leave the next shift better as well as.

Well, not as well as for me because it was hardly ever Left that way for me.

I'd come in and always be like, this person could have made this adjustment and just made it easier for me.

I'm always coming in, trying to fight these little fires that they have going because all they're doing is just watching and not thinking about the next person.

So I would, when I was ready to turn the plan over to the next shift, I'd always try to set them up, okay, I know what's going to happen, so I'm going to do this and do this.

So when they come in, they don't have to walk into a bunch of little fires and have to do that before they can start their day.

And people are like, well, why do you do that?

No one does it for you.

Because it's not about what is done for me.

It's how I like.

It's what I would like to be done for me.

But it doesn't mean I treat the other person the way I was treated.

And that's part of justice.

You don't treat people the way that you have been treated.

It's treating the people the way that they're supposed to be treated.

And too often we think, well, that's not fair.

That's why in here I said, what God requires is not easy of us, but he requires us.

The attitude, we as Christians shouldn't be doing things based on what's been done to us, but what's been done for us.

And Christ paid the price for all of our mess.

We're each a mess.

And so it has nothing to do with what other people have done to us, but rather what Jesus did for us.

And if we're living by that, we don't even have to ask ourselves these questions.

I mean, truly.

So are you living according to what Jesus did for us?

Like, are you taking that into consideration in your everyday?

Because man, he paid a mighty price just even being born as a human, right?

And then he took it as far as dying for us, like man, and living for us.

I mean, all of it, like that was.

That was all, you know.

So are we living according to that?

Like, are we acting like somebody gave it all for us?

I think too often when we think of this word just or justice, we think of the legalistic side.

Legalism and all that stuff comes in.

This is what the law says.

But what I was trying to paint the picture here is living the way God expects us to live.

That's showing justice to people too.

That's doing what's right.

Because the ultimate law is pointing us to that kind of lifestyle, the life that Jesus had.

I mean, this world is an unfair world.

It's an unjust world.

It's a merciless world.

All they think everyone thinks about themselves.

But you can't go around thinking about yourself if you're a Christian.

God requires much more from us.

We have to be humble.

We have to look at everybody as our neighbor.

I mean, when God says love your neighbor, he's not just talking about your brother or your person next door, who you have a relationship with.

That is everybody.

That is the world.

Anyone you're coming in contact with throughout your day that you don't know, that is your neighbor.

We're supposed to love everybody in that way.

And that's a way of showing just being a just person is we treat everyone the way we would like to be treated.

I mean, that's just a good old fashioned, you know.

What was that?

What's that called?

The.

Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

The golden rule.

The golden rule.

Look, there's a lot biblical about that because too often everyone treats everyone the way that they're being treated and not the way that they would like to be treated.

And if we all walked around with.

That attitude, I would take it a step further.

Treat everybody like Jesus would.

Well, yes, I mean, like, because that's even harder.

But for the new Christians, I'm one of those people.

That's part of my problem, though.

That's one of my downfalls is like, I do treat people the way that I want to be treated and that sometimes is not the right way.

You know, I want, I want people to be super direct and a little bit harder on me because I should know better.

So I end up doing that to others.

And so that's not always perfect.

But if you treat people the way that Jesus would treat people, or at least attempt to, that's, that's where, that's, that's the hard part.

Right, like, because honestly, like, sometimes it's hard treating others like I would want to be treated.

Then again, I understand what you're saying.

Sometimes it's not.

But, but putting that expectation on people who don't know you, putting that kind of expectation.

So with me, yeah, you definitely want me to treat you the way that you would like to be treated.

Because we know each other that well.

My son and I are the same way.

Sure, we know each other well enough that there should be a certain expectation he has on how I'm gonna treat him and vice versa.

But that in and of itself is you treating me like Jesus would treat me.

Because Jesus does treat me that way.

Right, true.

But if I'm talking to Lizzie, right?

Or if I'm talking to some guy.

Lizzie's my wife, by the way.

For those of you who don't know if I'm talking to my wife, like, that's not how she needs it.

That's not how Jesus would talk to her.

And so, like, if you're taking the individual and giving them what they need in your conversations and how you're keeping them accountable or whatever that is treating others like Jesus would.

And so in landing the plane, because we're at that time, if you're a man, you are called to be a leader.

Period.

Period.

You are called to be a leader.

And whether that's a leader in your home or a leader in the church, it's all of the above.

Like, if you're a man, you are called to lead.

And so with that, you ask yourself, are you leading in your own strength or are you leading by getting on your knees crying out to God to lead in his strength?

How are you leading?

Are you not leading?

Because if that's the case, then it's time to step up.

It's time to step up and start leading.

Because of leaders, you are absolutely called to be a leader, whether you're a.

Husband, a father, or just in the world as a man, you're called to be a leader.

And you are called to set the example just as Timothy was.

So.

So we'll leave you with that.

Are you leading justly as a man in the world?

Not of the world, no, but in the world.

So, yeah.

So we appreciate you guys.

Thanks for coming in.

Madcalf, thanks for inviting me.

We appreciate you, you joining us.

It's always good to have some fresh blood and, you know, fresh, fresh thoughts.

You know, John and I can get stale at times.

I'm sure a lot of people are gonna agree with that.

But we, we really appreciate all that you guys, the listeners do, and just hope that you guys got a little bit out of today.

If you don't mind, like, subscribe.

This won't be on YouTube, but at the beginning of the year, it will be on Patreon as video form going ahead.

And I'm gonna do that.

I think that we're gonna start small with the tiers, just so you guys have a little bit of an inside to that.

We're going to start small and grow it as we go, but be looking towards that.

God bless.

Hey, thanks for joining us.

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About the truth here.

Thanks for joining us this week and God bless.