00:00 - Jess White (Host)

Hi, Lee. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast and welcome to the Networking Spark. Love to hear a little bit about you. First of all, may I ask you, Lee, are you a millionaire?

00:13 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Yes, I am.

00:15 - Jess White (Host)

Amazing and I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey from where you came from, right from the beginning, to where you are today where you came from right from the beginning to where you are today.

00:28 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Wow, that's a deep question, um? So I was brought up on parsons mead, which is a very poor council estate, back in um in the early 70s, so it's west croydon. Um, I don't regret anything when I look back. It was actually a magical childhood. It was one of these neighbourhoods you could go out and mix with everybody. My son doesn't have that. Now we live in a much more affluent area. We don't have the same Freedom.

00:54

Same freedom, same connections. We're a lot more paranoid about our child so I actually loved it. When I look back, I actually loved growing up. It was a very poor neighbourhood but we never wanted for anything. My dad was a very hard-working person back in construction. So, yeah, it was really incredible when I look back now. I took my son there two weeks ago to show him how privileged he is now to live in a nice house, nice neighbourhood, the things we have, and to kind of show him. It almost looks like a prison now when I go and visit where we were brought up. But, like I say it was, it was. It was quality of life. We're always out playing, being mischievous, um, but it was. It was connection, which a lot of people don't have nowadays growing up, which is really sad what did your son think as he viewed where you used to live?

01:44 - Jess White (Host)

what? What were his comments?

01:46 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I think you thought it was actually okay. Um, it didn't shock him. You know I tried to have that kind of bonding father son moment. You know, please appreciate it. You know what you've got right now, complain. You know his gaming pc is not powerful enough. You know, back then of course there was no technology, it was going hunting through alleyways and it was a very, very different upbringing. And it does kind of stress me out a little bit as a parent seeing the disconnection they have nowadays. Too much technology, not enough personal connection. So it's a little bit frustrating for me as a parent, but I think he appreciated it. Sure, it's for me as a parent.

02:24 - Jess White (Host)

But I think he appreciated it. Sure, it's a tricky one as a parent, because this is their world. And so if you try and pull them back to your world when you were growing up, they are therefore not going to be as knowledgeable as what their peers are doing, for instance, if you're constantly pulling them away from screens when all their peers are doing it. That is their world. So as much as we were told to go and read a book, we can't do that when we parent our, our children, so much so these days yeah, it's yeah, constant learnings.

03:01 - Lee Smith (Guest)

You never stop learning in life. So I try, I restrict his time on the machine. I try and get him into reading books and, like you say, it's a battle because he sees what his friends are doing. They're online till 11 o'clock midnight thinking what the parent's doing and you know I think we're pretty tough compared to most parents. We're trying to get him a balance. You know, physical paper books it's really tough. It's really tough. So I feel for any parent I've got an IT company, I've been IT savvy for 20-plus years, so I've got a little bit of an edge but I really feel for parents who don't understand technology and have to look after their kids because they're so smart.

03:41 - Jess White (Host)

And it's telling when some of the people that run the you know the, the you know the people that have invented, like apple and uh, computers with their children, they do not let them go near it from what I've heard, and that is quite telling yeah, I looked into that as well.

04:02 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I think it was Steve Jobs um who said be really careful about the time that you allow your kids on these platforms. They're highly addictive. I believe they're programmed intentionally to be addictive. Look at youtube shorts. They're so addictive. They're constantly one after the other, the speed people record them at. It's all psychological tactics to keep you highly addicted. You just get on a train.

04:27 - Jess White (Host)

You see adults addicted. Everyone's glued to their phone, aren't they?

04:31 - Lee Smith (Guest)

It's a huge problem. The dopamine effect it's giving people.

04:35 - Jess White (Host)

If you're not aware of it, it's, it's, it's a big problem yeah, it's quite scary as to where we're going, because we've got screens, you know, folks, we've started off, you know, with these massive phones and then they're getting smaller. Now there's glasses being invented and talks of chips. So it's quite scary to think of where we're going. But again, one thing is always certain in life, and that is change yeah, since.

05:04 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Yeah, I think the danger becomes when you're not conscious, and a lot of people aren't conscious of what they're doing, yes um.

05:12

For example, my father is 80 um, so we lost. We lost my mother passed away last year and since then, uh, he's highly addicted to his phone. He's on dating he's not dating sites and he's you know, he's looking at videos and images of these women and he will wake up in the morning and six hours straight he will not have his breakfast. You know, he will sit there for two hours through lunch because he's so addicted to his phone. And I'm really worried about the future, which is why I tend to swerve the other way, and I love switching my phone off on the weekend, I love going for walks, I love reading a physical book, I love meditating, anything to find that balance, and a lot of people don't have any of that balance and I think, going forward, we're going to see a lot more problems in society unless people embrace the alternative routes and going back to nature.

06:04 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, because people are almost becoming unconscious in many ways, as in they're addicted to their phones so much, they rely on them so much that then they cannot be by themselves with their own thoughts. I've met a lot of people that are scared or that cannot. As a yoga teacher myself, I'm always trying to bring people into meditation, because the purpose of yoga is to prepare the body and mind for meditation. But there's so many people I come across that are just scared of being quiet by themselves and being in their heads.

06:39 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Yeah, I was going to say the same. People are so afraid of silence and peace and calm because they're not comfortable with themselves. I think the, for me personally, the key to happiness is being comfortable with yourself. I love silence, I love solitude, and just as much I love going out partying, as you know, um, but I think it, I think it's a really key ingredient of happiness is just sit still and not only collect your thoughts. It's getting those thoughts out of your head, because we've all got these voices inside of our head and without yoga and meditation, yeah, I think we're in a whole world of mess.

07:17 - Jess White (Host)

Personally, have you always been happy sitting with yourself and being quiet? Let's go back to your journey, where you were brought up in a council estate, but very, very happy. What happened next? What's been your journey to where you are today?

07:36 - Lee Smith (Guest)

um, I think, like many people, I think we are. We are quite robotic in nature and when I say that to people they really don't like it. But if you think about it, when you go and brush your teeth in the morning, you're not consciously picking up the toothbrush, you're not consciously brushing, you're running a program. We effectively have habits and programs running throughout our brain. So I instinctively just followed what I saw in front of me, which was my, my uncle. He was the wealthiest in the family. He was an accountant. My grandmother was a jeweller.

08:10

So I left school very early at 16 and I was quite disruptive at school. They didn't want me to stay on doing it was. I was too disruptive in the class having fun. So I went straight into the jewellery business and worked for a company called ratnets, which was quite famous at the time because he famously came out and having fun. So I went straight into the jewellery business and worked for a company called Ratnus, which was quite famous at the time because he famously came out and said all his jewellery was crap. So quite quickly I was made redundant as the company folded and then I thought I'd made it big because I was recruited to a top 10 law firm in London and I was just an admin assistant. But for me, from where I was brought up, going to work in, it was Barbican, a beautiful building with hundreds of people. You know that was a big change.

08:51 - Jess White (Host)

How old were you then?

08:52 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I was 18, 18 years old.

08:55 - Jess White (Host)

And that must have been wow.

08:57 - Lee Smith (Guest)

It was wow. I know it was £12,000 salary, but it was a massive wow. Back then it was a wow. You know, someone seen something good in me. I'd had probably about 20-30 jobs before that wow, what.

09:10 - Jess White (Host)

What age did you start working?

09:12 - Lee Smith (Guest)

16, okay. So I worked for the jewellers. Probably for about a year I was assistant manager for the store. Then I started working for the civil service. I was doing data entry jobs. I can't even count how many jobs I've had in my career, but I was always searching for something, and it was much later in life that I actually found what I was looking for, which obviously we'll come on to. But working for a big company in London was fascinating. I loved it. There was loads of secretaries for this business, so it was a great lifestyle move. And then I what?

09:49

because of the secretaries, oh yeah, you know, I was young, you know what's the word Hormonal, okay. So yeah, it was really fun. And then I made friends with people in the finance department quite randomly and they advised I'd go and do an accountancy course, which quite appealed to me when my uncle so I studied AAT um, I did about a year and a half for three years again. It was a little bit too boring for my liking. I didn't like the learning. However, I learned some very good finance strategies and then I can't remember how, but I became a programmer for this law firm and then I quite quickly got headhunted by all the top 10 law firms in London for knowing this particular piece of American software. And then everything led to another step. I'd become a consultant. So that's when I learned about being self-employed, because I couldn't stand seeing the tax coming out my salary every month. I thought who is this, who is PAYE and who is NI? And that was a mind-blower.

10:56

Who are these people that are stealing money out of my paycheck? So I quite quickly became a self-employed consultant, then worked for an investment firm and that was my last job, which was sometime around 1999, 2000. That was an investment firm who basically had billionaires as investors. They would go and buy shopping centres around the UK, redevelop them and then sell them on, and I'm still friends with some of the people in their business today. They really opened my eyes and they allowed me a lot of freedom. I got on very, very well with them. It was a very small business but they were very wealthy, completely different background to me. They were from Oxford, Cambridge, somehow. It was like a little family working for them. I was DJing at the time, so there was lots of banter and then they allowed me to create their website and then they became my first customer for my IT company.

11:51 - Jess White (Host)

Brilliant.

11:52 - Lee Smith (Guest)

And that kind of is what propelled me into the normal business life, I guess.

12:00 - Jess White (Host)

Right. Would you say, then, that the people that you surrounded yourself then are really kind of, you know, really propelled you into success, and that it's super important to be mindful of who you surround yourself with?

12:17 - Lee Smith (Guest)

But that's a really good point. That was definitely the launch pad to where I am today. Just being around people with a vastly different background, vastly wealthy. You know that 15, 20 million pound house is in Mayfair. The office was next to Harrods, so I loved the location, loved working for them but obviously didn't have the money I wanted. But yeah, 100% being around those people, seeing what they were doing, seeing how they're creating portfolios of companies and owning properties, that was like wow, how can I, how can I get there?

12:55 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, what do you think the difference is between those people at the top that you hung around with, mindset wise, and what do you think the difference is? Second question between a millionaire and a billionaire.

13:12 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I would say I don't think it's education. I didn't learn anything at school that was useful for later life, which is what I teach my son now. I think it's who you surround yourself with Ultimately. The people I was working for were in networks of people because they were naturally in Oxford, cambridge. They surrounded themselves with people that had family offices. It was just a boys' club and I was welcomed into their world to a certain level, but I didn't have the knowledge that they did. But I think it's like everybody says it's who you surround yourself with and what networks you're in. Networking is a huge part of where I am today.

13:54 - Jess White (Host)

Totally Just going back to that, though, what you said was a little bit contradictory from what I heard, in that these people you were you were hanging out with were from Oxford and Cambridge, so they had been through that whole school system, but then you said education wasn't part of it well, from from my perspective, I didn't go to a public school yeah, and and I have to say that every successful entrepreneur that I'm interviewing, they've all got the same story as in they kind of dropped out of school or university and it didn't do anything for them.

14:38

So I'd love to know about your thoughts on education and going to university, you having a son yourself, what, what, what the conversations you're having there?

14:50 - Lee Smith (Guest)

so my son is definitely, at the moment, taken after me. He doesn't want to go to university. That's more my thought process. However, I have a daughter who's 22. She is just about to finish university doing chemical engineering. So she has a career path ahead of her and I've got to be careful because I think the first job she's going into I think she's going to be underpaid. So I don't think there's a lot of difference between being an apprentice for a company and working your way up and doing university. The ceiling may be different, but in my personal view, I think the university is only good for the social aspect.

15:27

Again, it's who you meet there network. Again it's all about network and the way I'm teaching my son is that I think it's a real problem. He's 12 years old and I think Gen Z it's what they're called and I think there's. Unless you are earning multiples of hundreds of thousands of pounds in the future, you're going to be poor. That's my personal belief, because the middle class is being eroded at such a rapid pace at the moment. This is one of my kind of passions at the moment. I study lots of macroeconomics and I think the Western world is in deep, deep trouble. We're in so much debt, which is why they're going to be raising taxes. They're basically taking small business owners and the middle class and punishing them for the government's own mistakes and spending our money and just wasting it. So I think, going forward, people are going to have to think differently and do different things, because there's going to be a lot more poverty going forward. I'm a very positive, optimistic person, but I see dark days ahead.

16:31 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, I mean we've got a huge culture of small business owners and the government really encouraging people to be running their own business. So do you think that's? You know there's not not very correct going on behind the scenes there? What? What are your thoughts?

16:50 - Lee Smith (Guest)

yeah, definitely, it's probably not popular. Probably not a popular opinion I have, but I'm very contrarian. I'm definitely anti-government as a person. I don't agree with a lot of government policies, especially in this country and I would say all Western countries I study. There's a massive problem. For example, you go to countries like Dubai. They really encourage you to make money tax. There's huge tax incentives. The quality of life you can argue it's all man-made. However, quality of life is very high there, whereas in the UK, because they got themselves in debt, quality of life is very high there. It was in the UK Because they got themselves in debt. They're punishing the people for that, constantly printing money. Everybody sees the cost of living inflation. Real inflation is 10% to 15%, not the figures they pump out. So, unless you have investments that are making fantastic returns, you're getting poorer every year, every month, every quarter. So I think people really need to arm themselves with a lot of knowledge on how to navigate through where we're going to be over the next five to ten years.

18:01 - Jess White (Host)

What's stopping you from moving to Dubai then?

18:04 - Lee Smith (Guest)

My wife. I was ready. I've been studying this for 10 years. My father retired to Spain 18 years ago. I'm constantly studying. I'm a resident in Mexico. I was about to get residency in Dubai. I'm looking to get a passport in Brazil. I'm working on a passport in Italy. Wow, I think it's essential to have options.

18:28 - Jess White (Host)

Why Mexico?

18:31 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Because it was one of the most free options during COVID. I was hugely against COVID Again, possibly an unpopular opinion. However, yeah, Mexico was amazing during covid. It wasn't perfect, there was still some restrictions there, but it seemed like one of the better options has that now changed?

18:55

um, no, I still think it's a good. It's a good option. It's a very strong currency. Most currencies around the world are devaluing at such a high pace, but Mexico peso is actually performing really well. So it's a strong economy. So now I've got a residency there, I'm due to renew that in 2026.

19:12 - Jess White (Host)

I'll get a five-year residency and then, ultimately, I'm looking for a passport there. What does the conversation go like with your wife when you're trying to persuade her to move?

19:27 - Lee Smith (Guest)

um, I just try and show her, yeah, some of the things that are happening in london. She absolutely loves london. She's from brazil. If you speak, I'll go to brazil quite a lot, and when you go to brazil, they absolutely love england, because what they perceive as england is the, is the royal family, the culture from what they see on TV. However, great Britain, as much as I love it, is on a very fast downward spiral at the moment.

19:55

I don't see that changing for quite a long time yeah so I just try and have conversations about things she's not really privy to. I mean, I study. I study this day in, day out. So I see the statistics, I see what's going on. I travel up and down the country, I see how things are changing. So she gets it, but she's always like you know, one more year, stay, one more year and I just see another year is quite dangerous.

20:21 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, yeah. So, Lee, you have a Brazilian wife. You're a millionaire. Do you feel like a winner?

20:34 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Not really Well. I don't regret anything in life. I'm very grateful for where I am. I'm very grateful for the people I've met that have got me where I am today, but I'm in a constant struggle to battle the forces that I see. You know you struggle most of your life to try and become a millionaire, and once you've got money, it's then the battle to protect it, because then you realise there's forces out there like inflation, like governments who are constantly trying to take it away from you. So it's almost a bit of a worse struggle. It's a great battle to try and get wealth, and when you've got wealth, it's then another battle to try and retain it. So I'm diversified across multiple countries, so I think I'm well protected, but I'm always researching and looking at new options. Do you think you're happier, wealthy or poor?

21:42

I don't think money makes the difference. Definitely money does not make the difference. It's actually quite stressful the whole protection strategy around protecting your wealth. So I think I'm happy when I'm surrounded by a good community. It doesn't matter whether you're poor or you're wealthy. Unity doesn't matter whether you're poor or you're wealthy, because the journey to get money I found happiness by being around the right people. Now I've got money. Yes, it gives you more options and I can travel more, but it's not it's definitely not the differentiator. It's about being around the right people always. Yeah, it doesn't matter where you are in your wealth journey.

22:25 - Jess White (Host)

It's about being around people that make you happy yeah, agree, talking of people and being surrounded by the right people. What are your thoughts on networking? Do you prefer online, in person? What are your experiences and any advice for those just stepping into the world of networking or perhaps thinking about it, because some people have a view of networking that's going into this dusty old school hall with people shoving business cards at you and selling to you or standing up and doing a little pitch. So what? What's your experience and thoughts on networking?

23:07 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Oh well, I'm definitely not a good networker. I'm an introvert. I'm quite shy at times, apart from when I've had a couple of glasses of champagne, so I've not been a great networker, but my network I've got now is means everything. So you being out out of your comfort zone is definitely something I would encourage people to do. Some of the best times I've ever had is when I'm out outside my comfort zone getting comfortable with being uncomfortable exactly that.

23:39

Um, so yeah, I think I think it's a key thing. No, what you do, it's important to be surrounded by good people. The only way to do that is to go out and mix in uncomfortable environments. You can try the online option. I'm not a fan of it. I did try a cloud networking event recently, which was interesting because it was global, it wasn't just London-based. It was a very good mixture of people. I've always preferred face to face.

24:08 - Jess White (Host)

Have you got a specific moment in time, like a success story that came from networking?

24:17 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I think probably from my mergers and acquisitions. I think that's what really propelled me, because every time I've been on stage which makes me really uncomfortable every time I've been on stage which makes me really uncomfortable, every time I'm on stage people will come up to me and they will say you know, you've really inspired me. I've been their mentor and they've then become my mentors. There's a particular person in my life right now. He said I was his mentor. That got him where he is today, but now he's ultimately my mentor because he's gone on and done some incredible things, incredible incredible things, so now he's my mentor.

24:51

So moments like that- I think what people say they were looking up to me, but now I look up to them.

24:56 - Jess White (Host)

And you never know who you're going to be helping by speaking out and getting into a place where you feel uncomfortable. But getting there and speaking out and sharing, you never know who you're going to help right.

25:09 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Yeah, you never know who's in that room. You never know what connections you're gonna have. Like you know, we went out a couple of weeks ago didn't know what to expect, ended up meeting two wonderful souls. You know I've invited them into my kind of personal networks around freedom, which is another subject, and you know they could be lifelong friends now and and I didn't I was a bit nervous coming out that evening but you stepped into the uncomfortable you did it and then you didn't look back and you had an amazing time and met some great people

25:41 - Jess White (Host)

yes which is it is kind of it really explains networking. Right, a lot of people feel it or feel like a wall, and yet if you're able to find a networking event or company that can get rid of that wall and make it fit, make you feel at ease, then you never know, with each person that you speak to, what opportunities they're going to open up to you. So would you say you sound like you have a very tech type brain. From your journey and from what you do, would you say there's an element of creativity and do you think it's important to be creative in your thinking as an entrepreneur, as a business person, as somebody that buys businesses and runs them? What are your thoughts there?

26:33 - Lee Smith (Guest)

definitely, definitely very creative brain. Um, I was a DJ for many years and then started making my music. Then I was building, creating websites, so I love the creative process. My most joy at the moment is actually getting a one sheet of paper and mapping out my strategies. I love that creative process. I love thinking about problems I may be facing at the moment and how I can solve it. Absolutely love that whole creative process on how to tackle issues I've currently got and how I'm going to get from where I am today to where I need ultimately need to be. Yeah, I love that whole process.

27:14 - Jess White (Host)

It's all about balance, isn't it really?

27:16 - Lee Smith (Guest)

It is all about balance. Of course you can sway from one side to the other, but yeah, you need. Yeah, I've always been a yin and yang kind of believer yeah, what?

27:27 - Jess White (Host)

What would you say? Your best qualities are? Putting you on the spot there or imagine you're not you and you're your best friend or your wife. What would they say are your best qualities?

27:45 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I would say I definitely care about what I do. I never want to harm people. That's definitely one recurring theme. I always see the best in people. I've been screwed over a couple of times in the last sort of five years. So ethics. Ethics are definitely the heart of everything I do. I believe every, every business I buy, I try and improve. So my main aim is always to employ people, create opportunities. You know one of my. You know my most precious business is run by an amazing woman. That was my PA, wow, and I could see she was just an incredible person and now she runs that business. I wish she could run more of my companies. She's a phenomenal person and I want to create opportunities for people because that's not something I'm good at. I'm not good at running businesses. I'm good at the deal making and the strategy. So finding win-win scenarios where I'm helping people, that's kind of where my heart is at yeah, and tell us a bit more about what you do.

28:53 - Jess White (Host)

How many companies have you got at the moment? It sounds like you're a mentor as well, so tell us a bit more about what you're doing at the moment.

29:01 - Lee Smith (Guest)

So I mentor some people on how to acquire businesses, how to source off-market businesses. My day job is finding companies that are off-market to buy, so I've bought 26 companies over the last eight, nine years. Wow.

29:22

That's a lot. Not happy with that number. To be honest, It's a three per year kind of average, but the last couple of years has been a little bit harder because now I'm looking for bigger, more profitable businesses and it's harder to raise the money due to interest rates. But I'm working. You know, I'm working with private investors now because if their money sits in the bank, they're getting anything from sort of 1% to 5%, whereas I'm offering 9%, 10% interest plus. Some of them are taking equity stakes as well. So that's a new thing I've been working on for 18 months is getting more investors on board so they can own physical assets in businesses, and there's a lot of property investors that want to move into what I'm doing.

30:07

There's been a massive flood into mergers and acquisitions and I just enjoy it. I love although I'm comfortable walking into rooms full of people networking. I love seeing one-on-one with business owners. I absolutely love it. I do it day in, day out, finding out you know what, you know what they're looking for, what they're looking to do, and trying to find a win-win scenario so I can get them that, that low tax retirement money, and I can go and control their business and create wealth for everybody sounds like you make a big difference in a lot of people's lives and that you really care about what you do, which is fantastic.

30:42 - Jess White (Host)

And you know, you know. I think having you know the honesty there, that you really care that you're not harming people in business, is really important, because there are, you know, we all know we come across certain people in life that sometimes ruin your trust in humanity. So it's always a joy to meet people that you know have got a good heart. Um, I personally have a good sense of somebody these days, um, in my older self, of an intuitive sense of people that have got a good heart, um, and I think you're one of them thank you.

31:20

Can you tell me a little bit about the spiritual side of Lee?

31:25 - Lee Smith (Guest)

So I was going through a bit of a midlife crisis in 2008. I lost access to my daughter, and for anyone who's got children, they will probably understand that when you lose access to something that's so precious to you and has a really big impact on you. So I was going through some really hard times 2008 to 2012 and I knew something had to change in my life. I was for the first time ever I was. I was feeling quite depressed so I thought, right, I need, I need, I need to find a way out. And I don't know how, I don't know why, but I came across an advert about walking on fire and what a difference it made to their life. And it was a guy called Tony Robbins. Never heard of him.

32:13

So in 2012, I went to the Excel Exhibition Centre in London and there was a room full of 10,000 crazy people jumping up and down to house music, which I love, and actually that was an absolute pivotal, pivotal moment in my life because I was. I was definitely on a downer and after those four days, I walked out completely invincible and then, six months later, I went on a mergers acquisitions course and from the Tony Robbins momentum and energy that I had and a renewed focus on life. I found exactly what I was looking for, which was a route to get from being poor, stroke, middle-class to getting the wealth that I always knew that I was destined for. I always had a feeling it was something I was destined to do. I never had a clue how to get from A to B. So learning, mergers and Acquisitions it was that light bulb moment. Ah, here's the process. I never knew what strategies were around to get me from where I currently was to where I knew I should be, and mergers and acquisitions gave me that moment.

33:29

So, throughout that whole journey you know it's very stressful and through reading immense amounts of books, I found meditation. So while I was buying in 2015, I thought about 5-6 companies. It was highly stressful. These were all distressed businesses. So, buying 6 distressed companies and running my IT business, I would be driving around the M25, up the M40, and I would stop off and do a 20 minute meditation and I could have been anywhere in the world. I could have been in the middle of a jungle, a desert. Those 20 minutes I found the ultimate peace and I'd come out with 20 minute meditation and go on and do my meetings and without finding that kind of spirituality, I would have just been someone hungry for making money and screwing people over. I think and I think that's where I found true balance was making money, hustling day in, day out, long hours, and that immense tranquillity you can find with meditation.

34:40 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, would you say that was your technique if you ever got overwhelmed, because running that many businesses and doing so much, you must have felt a little bit of overwhelm now and then Wasitation I can't imagine how people survive, having learned meditation.

35:06 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I don't know how people go day in, day out through all the craziness of life without meditation, because it's a mind cleanse.

35:17 - Jess White (Host)

Do you ever find you have downloads after you've been meditating, or a sense of connecting to some things much bigger than the self, or this, just these amazing ideas coming through what's happened to you over your journey of meditation?

35:34 - Lee Smith (Guest)

yeah, definitely it's hard to explain to people that don't meditate, but when you've got a thousand things going on in your mind, there was one particular example I can remember. I was meditating off the pearly way in croydon if anyone knows, it is a crazy road road rage. I was in the sainsbury's car park and I was meditating and I just got this most beautiful stillness. And then it sounds stupid, but I had suddenly remembered there was a parking ticket that I needed to pay and it was one day left.

36:05

This is the beauty of meditation it takes you to your I would say, your higher self, the intuitive mind. So, out of all the madness in your life, if there's one thing you've forgotten to do that needs to be done the next day, meditation can really help you do that. It sees through all of the fog, it tells you what's the most pressing thing you need to do, and that one example is probably the best example I can give. When you've got a thousand things going on, it suddenly reminds you. It clears all of your crap talk and madness you've got going on that says there's this one thing that you need to do, otherwise there's going to be a problem. Yeah, it's just one small example of how good meditation is.

36:47 - Jess White (Host)

It really focuses you on the one thing that is urgent to deal with right now yeah, it's such a good tool to have because as entrepreneurs, it's such a common thing for people to get overwhelmed when you're starting multiple businesses and there can be moments where it's brilliant and you're excited and you've got all these ideas coming. And then, when you've got, when you're a sort of person that's almost a little bit adhd is, and there's so many ideas coming in and you're trying to do so much and it's all great for a time and then sometimes you can get to this moment where you suddenly feel like you're drowning in it and what you've taken on, it's like so much to handle. But if you've got something to turn to, like meditation, walking out in nature, whatever it is for you it's just you know it's so important, isn't it, to have these tools to turn to? So you told me earlier you're going on a retreat is something. Is that something that you do often and that you recommend to step out of life and go and retreat?

37:53 - Lee Smith (Guest)

it's something I don't do enough of, but I want to do a lot more going forward. Um, I love travelling. Some of my best creative moments is when I'm travelling. Um, I got into mergers and acquisitions because I was sitting on the beach in Brazil. I'd just bought a house in Brazil in 2008 through my midlife crisis, but it was amazing. I was sitting on this stunning beach, a really unspoiled part of Brazil, really one of the poorest states in Brazil, but it was absolutely stunning. And again, I was sitting there doing creative writing, coming up with ideas. I wasn't wealthy by any means at all back then, but those moments are the most precious to me Travelling, being on a plane where you haven't got a phone, you haven't got distractions, you haven't got noise, even though you can get Wi-Fi.

38:38

Now, I would never do that on a plane Because for me, that is precious, precious time to get my favourite book, to have that kind of mental dump of ideas and be really creative. So, going forward, I want to do a lot more retreats. I used to travel every month. It's a bit difficult now with a 12-year-old boy that needs me, but if I can travel every two months, three months and do a retreat, that's my ideal.

39:06 - Jess White (Host)

Wonderful, wonderful. Can I ask you, Lee, what's your biggest success and your biggest failure?

39:17 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Biggest success. I think it was a success at the time. So in 20, well, actually, the failure brought the biggest success. So in 2016, I owned two manufacturing companies. Now I had zero experience in manufacturing.

39:36

I was working with a Swedish business partner at the time who was much better operations than me, and we bought a quite highly regarded pottery company and I was interviewed by bbc news because it was quite a high profile company, had a royal stamp, and my business partner was convinced that he could use a client base to grow this company and re-establish it was it was going under, it was in administration. So I did the deal. I did the deal with the administrators to buy this company. We saved, I think, 20 to 30 jobs. It was a massive factory, really big pottery company.

40:18

However, with those kind of companies become lots, there's lots of complexities like so simple switching on the power was delayed by a month, so we were on a back foot from day one, so that company ended up closing after 12 months.

40:33

So that was a massive, massive blow, not only to my ego, to my, I guess, my ethical side, because I always wanted to create more jobs than get rid of to have a company go into administration in those circumstances really was a mental blow for me. So I probably took 12 to 18 months out and decided enough was enough. I wasn't going to get involved in distressed, crazy companies anymore and decided to go for bigger, more profitable companies. So in 2018, I went out, started scouring the market and in 2019, I ended up buying a £12 million roofing company that specialised in football stadiums. So it was a very profitable, very, very good business and in the circles I was in back then probably hundreds of mergers and acquisitions people in the lower it's called the lower market, which is basically anything from 1 to 20 million. That was probably the biggest deal that was done in those circles at the time. So that was a huge success. Yeah, private equity don't touch those sizes.

41:44

Historically, however, they are starting to move into those areas.

41:48 - Jess White (Host)

So how did that failure contribute to your success?

41:54 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I think it was so humbling me being, as a director, shareholder me being so humbled by the experience of having a company fail under my directorship made me think what do I need to do differently going forward? So again, it was that creative time. The creative process sat down. What do I need to do differently? Right, let's go for bigger companies. Let's go for companies that are profitable, not crazy. Distressed is one. And again we did a fair deal with the owner of that business and yeah, it was. I could sleep easy at night. It was a company that was actually making money, not a disaster crazy situation, which I think is a bit of personality as well yeah because I was probably a bit of a not a wreck.

42:44

I guess I was a bit reckless at the time and through the meditation process, through the failure, I actually grew a lot. I read a lot more books. Um, I've got a huge library at home now. I think Jim Rohan says you know, judge, a, judge a wealthy person by the amount of books that they have in their house.

43:00 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah and yeah maybe from the failures that they've had no, exactly failures are lessons and that's the key, right?

43:10

because if you, if you, if you give up after a failure, then that's that, that's it. But if you look at it like going to university, your failure is your university, is your lessons, then you know, then you learn, you learn from it and then you grow. And I've seen so many people who have, just you know they've got to this place where they're super successful. But had they not gone through that failure and continued taking it as a lesson and then moved forward, you know, if they'd have given up at that point after the failure, then they would never have got to where they are today yeah, I can definitely relate to that yeah and for every problem there's a book to solve it the way I look at it.

43:55 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Someone's already been there, done it, solved it, so you just need to find the right book and to solve the current challenge that you're facing yeah, or mental or mental um, do you find that you're getting challenge that you're facing yeah, or mental, or mental.

44:14 - Jess White (Host)

Do you find that you're getting happier as you're getting older, coming from a place where you said you were super happy as a child when you had nothing, to where you are now?

44:22 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Yeah, like everything, it goes in cycles in life, um, so I just had another huge failure in 2022, which, again, was a challenge. However, I've been focused, refocusing, rebalancing, meditating on it. Again I'm back, meditating properly, which I missed out on, and I would say, yeah, I'm definitely in a really, really good place. Yeah, I would say my knowledge is always increasing and my network is a lot better now than it was a year ago. So, again, each failure has led me to a much better network, a much better group of people asking much better questions of myself and the people around me. So, yeah, I think the more fate, yeah, I'd say, bring it on now, bring on the failures, because every time it happens, um, I get pissed off and then increase, increase the people, the scope of the people around me.

45:23 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, yeah, amazing, you're a man that does yoga.

45:28 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I have to. I'm 50 now, so flexibility is the key. I thought going to the gym and getting strong running and weight training was what it was all about, but actually flexibility is the key.

45:42 - Jess White (Host)

There's not many men in my yoga classes, but I think it's essential good on you because, that's true, there are more, far more women than men, but it's wonderful to see guys that are into yoga. There's so it's not just um, it's not just an exercise, it's not just something that can make you flexible. There's so much more. It's a um, a huge, huge world with yoga that essentially leads to meditation, but often, uh, you know, the people get confused. They go to a gym class and it's just, you know, 45 minutes in and then they're out, um, but yeah, congrats. Anyway, it's good to hear that you do that. I think you're amazing. Do you have a bucket list?

46:26 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Oh, I've got a huge bucket list.

46:27 - Jess White (Host)

Talk us through it.

46:28 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Wow. One of my dreams is to have my own retreats one day. Spiritual retreats, that's something a long way down the line. I've got a huge list of destinations I want to go to. Asia is a destination I want to travel a lot more to. We've got two family trips planned for this year.

46:53 - Jess White (Host)

Where would you have your retreat and why is it a long way down the road?

47:00 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I guess, self-belief. It took me a long time to be comfortable calling myself a mergers and acquisitions specialist. Probably I still feel a little bit uncomfortable saying that even though I've got to where I've got to. I guess I'm always a little bit self-doubting. It doesn't matter what happens in life, I'm always because I'm very critical of myself.

47:27 - Jess White (Host)

I'm a bit of a perfectionist and until I've got, you know, eight figures, I feel like I'm not a success but I think that makes you more likeable, more human, in a way that you've got those sensitive parts of you that come across and people maybe connect to you more so than they would do that somebody that is so, Andrew Tatish, let's say and it has the opposite effect. So I think it's human and it's nice and it's good, and it's good to always have places and elements where you want to grow.

48:40 - Jess White (Host)

It's quite interesting the whole dynamics. Do you want to get to their level? Is that on your bucket list? It was going into lockdowns, interesting the whole dynamics.

48:45 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Do you want to get to their level? Is that on your bucket list? It was Going into lockdowns. Yeah, when the whole COVID era came, I think I had companies with just short 50 million revenue and 100%. My target was 150 million revenue. For whatever reason, it was a completely made-up number that I thought meant something. So I don't know, I have a bit of tug of war inside of myself. It's. Do I want to get to that level? Yes. Do I want to sacrifice time with my son and my spiritual side, no. So I think there's a bit of a balance in between. So I think getting to a healthy eight figure where I'm actually making a meaningful impact on the world, I think is a is a good middle ground that I'm comfortable with. So I admire those people. I don't necessarily. Well, I definitely don't want to sell my soul is the answer. So if I can get there doing what I believe in, then 100% I'll do it.

49:47 - Jess White (Host)

Which brings me to the question: what's more important to you, money or fulfilment?

49:52 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Fulfilment.

49:54 - Jess White (Host)

That was very fast.

49:55 - Lee Smith (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, 100% fulfilment.

49:57 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, wonderful. So, Lee, bringing this into a close now. Thank you so much. It's been incredible talking to you, Really insightful. The listeners here are going to be generally people that are entrepreneurs, building a business themselves, perhaps going through struggles. What's your top tips for the listeners trying to build their dream life and getting to where they want to be? What would your top tips be?

50:29 - Lee Smith (Guest)

I'd say don't set off a second best. The one thing that always drove me was I knew I needed. For me it's a need, and especially now the time we're in. Like I say again, interest rates, inflation. You hear about it all the time. However, the numbers they publish are not real. 10% to 15% inflation is the real inflation at least. So it's not just a desire to be wealthy. I think it's a necessity to be wealthy these days, because otherwise the gap is getting bigger.

51:01

The gap is getting massively bigger and you're not going to have freedom. You're not going to have freedom. You're not going to have freedom of choice, freedom of location. That's my driver. I want freedom of location and time, and to get that you need more money, and money's not a bad thing, money's a good thing.

51:20 - Jess White (Host)

You can do really good things with it. Yeah Well, thank you so so much, Lee. Pleasure it's been wonderful having you here. Um, yeah, huge thanks, namaste.