And the biggest task, I think, was when I met the orchestra at the very first rehearsal.

I turned up and I walked in and they were all rehearsing another piece.

And I, I thought, crikey, I thought it was a bit overwhelming, to be honest with you, because, you know, I come from a working class background and orchestras are mainly sort of highly educated middle class, you know, and, and they know their stuff.

And then the, the, the guy turned around who was conducting and he said, oh, the, the, the composer's here.

And I was going, what?

You know, not.

I'm not a composer, you know, and he said, david, would you just kind of say a few words about your piece?

And I, I said, no, no, no, it's fine.

You guys just go.

And he said, no, come on.

So I stood up and I started talking about it and you know, I was, I was worried because there was once or twice, you know, that one of them would turn around and say, David, you've got an F sharp major written here and shouldn't that be a C flat or whatever?

You know, I was going, can you just sing the melody for me?

And then she would sing it and I say, no, no, it's supposed to go, you know, And I, So I got it all in there.

So that's where.

But do you know what?

That's where music comes from, doesn't it?

So.

But once they started playing, oh, man, I just, I stood back and I was, I was apprehensive, of course, because I thought, is this going to work?

And those three opening chords I had written on that cheap little synthesizer that afternoon, suddenly it was an orchestra playing it.

And it was like.

It was like having the, the best stereo system ever, you know, it was like three dimensional sound.

And I went, wow.

Yeah, I've pulled it off.

This works.

So.

So once I got past that point, I, My confidence gained and so I kept.

Kept going and I kept creating, you know, and I got it all finished.

So.

Yeah.

And is it out?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it was, it was.

Where can we hear?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, you can actually, you can.

If you go to my website, you can.

You can stream this very first symphony that I did, because I've done many other since, but the very first one's called the Divine Line.

It's all about my nde and you can stream that for free if you go.

My website is shineonthestory.com so if people want to just go on there and just.

They can listen to it there.

So please do.

Yeah, but, yeah, in total Now.

Oh, well, I've.

I've done quite a few.

I'm actually.

That's going to be the next stage.

I'm going to put an album out now, like a CD with a compilation of different pieces that I've written.

They've not all been symphonies.

There's a bit.

There's been.

There's been.

There have been quite a few symphonies.

But I was.

I was asked by a clarinet choir to write a piece for them.

I never heard of one of those before.

And so that was new to me, but it worked.

You know, I walked into this room and There was like 10 guys and they got clarinets.

You wouldn't believe the size of them unless you've seen them.

But, you know, like a bass clarinet, it's about.

You know, it's about 2 meters in length.

And it's like.

When you play it, it sounds like an ocean liner pulling into the.

To the bay, you know, it's kind of like, wow.

So I wrote a piece for them and that came and that happened, you know.

I mean, I use, you know, simulated sounds when I'm doing it now.

You know, I've got, like, synthesizers and I'll say, I think, okay, I'll find a clarinet sound on there.

So I.

That's.

But that's all I've got again, you know, I'm not.

I'm not using music, but it works.

So, yeah, so that's.

That's.

The next stage is to.

Is to put out a compilation.

So.

Because there's quite a variation of my work as well, I've done other bits where.

Where it's very chilled music and it's just.

I've used electronic sounds as well, like synthesizers mixed in with.

With cellos and strings and, you know, just trying to combine different textures.

And you're still staying away from, as you said, intellectualizing it.

You're just doing it by feel.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Because to me, you know, that's.

That's what music is, you know.

You know, it's just.

That's what I've always grown up on.

You know, it's like when I was listening to music before, when I look back on all the stuff that I've always liked, it's always been about the feel.

It's always been about the groove or so.

Or, you know, the stuff that really hits your heart, you know, like, sort of, you know, like, rather than stuff that's just kind of like just goes over your head.

So, yeah, so for me, music's just gotta.

It's got to Move you, hasn't it?

So, so that's, that's what I try to get out of it.

Incredible.

And do you, do you work with something like a ghostwriter?

Like, do you have somebody that you, you tend to work with when it comes to putting it down on paper, or have you figured out how to do that?

I've learned quite a bit now how to do it, yeah.

Because the, the package that my brother gave to me, he, we then learned you could get an advanced stage.

You know, I, I use this thing called finale print music.

And so, but I've learned, yeah, so I learned, I've learned things like how to sustain a note or what have you, or make it and different things.

But my brother, he's, he's classically trained, so he's the one that, yeah, I go to, but I literally do it.

I try to leave him out of the equation right until the very end, you know, because otherwise it gets complicated then because he might turn around and say, well, actually I don't think that, you know, trombones would be playing that part.

I think you find that, you know, cellos would always go, no, no, no, no, just do it.

Let's just try it.

You know, and it's great because I see different documentaries now.

I watch documentaries on different people and different, you know, music programs.

And that's where people try and, you know, they break the rules.

They'll say kind of like, you know, I'm gonna get, you know, whatever, you know, just, you know, you, you've got to break the rules.

Sometimes with music you can't just go along with what's there.

But, yeah, but going back to what he's saying, my brother, he's the final one, he's the one who'll just, he'll get it so that it's, it's, it's completely acceptable for every single person in the orchestra to be able to understand what's going on, you know, so he knows.

Yeah.

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What year was the first concert of one of your original symphonies?

Do you remember how long ago it was?

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was 2008, the first one came out.

Yeah, and what was that feeling like when you were finally able to, you know, hear that concert and be part of the audience and watch them actually receive your work?

That must have been overwhelming.

Yeah, it was, it was, it was interesting actually, because like I said before, you know, I'd never been successful playing guitar, but, you know, it would always been like playing to an audience of two men and a dog or whatever, so.

Which is quite nerve wracking, you know, because you just stood there and you're just playing your guitar and you're thinking, how am I going down?

How are they going to like this song?

And how are they going to report at the end of this one, you know, Whereas when you're actually sat in the audience listening to, leaving it to the orchestra and leaving it in the hands of the conductor to sort of take it through, it's great.

Obviously I was kind of slightly apprehensive and nervous because it's.

It's my baby, you know, but yeah, I really enjoyed it.

I absolutely enjoyed it.

I mean, the concert sold out.

This is incredible because I'd basically, they said to me, the guys in the orchestra said, oh, do you mind just saying a few words to the local press just because you've written a piece?

And I said, sure.

So I did speak to the local press and they said, hey, hang on a sec, I knew the guy who went under the train.

And I said, yeah.

They said, wow, this is a brilliant story.

It's going on the front page, you know, so from then, you know, the phone kept ringing and then the BBC wanted to come and interview me.

And so they came down to the rehearsal and they filmed me.

Which is really interesting because this is orchestras.

I mean, they're a different breed in terms of musicians.

It's like when I emailed them to ask if that was okay, I thought they would be, yeah, yeah, cool.

You know, but they were kind of going, well, you know, it might interrupt the, the, you know, our rehearsal time and stuff like that.

They were kind of like a few of them were reluctant, which is lovely.

I love the fact that they didn't care, you know, but the fact that they did come down the BBC, then it went on the TV and then it sold out two weeks in advance.

So the atmosphere was electric that night.

It was incredible.

Yeah.

Imagine that sounds.

That sounds incredible.

Yeah.

Do you believe in destiny?

Yeah, I do, actually.

Yeah, I do now.

I believe that.

I believe that our lives are kind of like almost like a highway that are set out in front of us and we don't Always follow that route.

I certainly didn't.

You know, I was.

I was constantly being tempted by shortcuts.

I go, oh, I'm going to take that road that's going to.

That's going to lead me to happiness and success.

And I ended up going down that road.

And it wasn't the road for me then I'd end up back on the highway again.

So I kind of see it like that.

And.

And so now I kind of like realize that the highway that I'm on is the one that's meant to be for me.

It's, you know, it's kind of like it's.

It's my soul path.

That's why that's probably the best way to call it, rather than the highway.

It's my soul path.

And I think that we've all got our own soul paths.

I totally agree, and I think that analogy is incredible because I definitely can see parallels in getting off of the highway and whatever powers that be forcing me back onto that soul path, you know, so I can definitely, definitely relate.

That's incredible.

Brilliant.

How did you overcome some of the feelings and thoughts I'm sure would have been completely overwhelming, especially dealing with the orchestra.

You mentioned them being a different breed altogether, knowing that you weren't, you know, quote, unquote, one of them.

You didn't probably.

You probably weren't able to speak in musical terms in a way that they would understand.

How did you convince yourself or tell yourself to keep on going with these ideas that you had and making sure that you could see them through to the end?

I never lost faith just because I believe that this was all meant to unfold, it was all meant to happen, that the music was meant to get out there.

And so I didn't really fear it.

Yeah, of course, you know, I'm only human.

There were times, you know, I turn up to rehearsals every.

Every day, and I think, oh, is this the one where they're going to really catch me out and say, you know, he doesn't even know what he's talking about?

You know, but, you know, so many.

Of course that's there.

But generally speaking, I had faith.

And I just knew that if something didn't sound right at the rehearsal, that I would go home and figure it out and then I go back and fix it and it would work.

And it's.

So.

Yeah.

Which is interesting because that's a complete contrast into how I was before.

I never had any self sort of confidence, and so I didn't believe in myself.

So I probably would have stepped back from.

From it very easily, you know, before I probably wouldn't have even taken that.

The chance that I did by going to an orchestra.

But it was, you know.

Yeah.

What.

What comes to you?

What are you working on now?

Okay, sorry.

Yeah, I guess that's a good question.

Sorry, there's a delay.

We sometimes talk over each other.

We don't mean to.

Sorry.

What was.

What were you saying?

Which one?

Which one?

What are you working on?

What are you working on now?

Right, yeah, I'm writing on a new symphony, actually.

Yeah.

Which is called.

I Wasn't Expecting this.

So.

Yeah, so that's coming along fine.

I mean, I don't know how that's going to happen about getting it performed because, you know, orchestras are struggling to get together.

I mean, professional orchestras are doing that over here now with social distancing.

But in terms of an amateur orchestra, it's going to be tough.

But what I'm figuring is I'm going to.

I want this to be on this new album I'm putting together.

So I'm going to get some studio time and I will get like, you know, the different players to come in individually and then lay down their parts and take it like that.

So it'll be a different way of going about it.

All the rest have been performed as a whole, you know, the whole orchestra together.

But now I just have to break it down.

So.

Yeah, so that's.

That's the next stage.

That's incredible.

You mentioned in the past struggling with self confidence and other internal issues.

We've, of course, come back and come full circle from that feeling.

It looks like, and sounds like.

Can you share with our listeners who may not fully believe in themselves or lack confidence, any insight on how to overcome or, you know, just some encouraging words for them?

Yeah, sure.

What I'd say is to actually not be afraid to stop and step away from whatever environment you're in that's making life tough for you and to actually, you know, try and ground yourself and ask.

Ask yourself the question, what is it I really want?

What is the pathway that's meant for me?

You know, am I actually hanging out with the right crowd here?

Am I the door that I'm trying to bang on?

They're not letting me in.

Is that the right door for me?

You know, and just try and be authentic to yourself, basically, is what I'm saying.

And once you are authentic to yourself, then those.

The right doors will slowly open in front of you like they did for me, you know, with the music and the art you know I didn't, I wasn't pushing at those doors they opened because they were meant to be where I was supposed to be going so and once you do that, you know just be patient as well you know I was I lacked patience before because I was trying to fix everything Just be patient and allow it to come to you and it will for all.

Of us I think which one do you feel comes to you more art in the form of painting or in symphonies?

They're both very much hand in hand to be honest with you and it's whatever is feeling strong the urge like for example at the moment it feels stronger for me to be focusing on the music at this stage and then I'll know that I'll suddenly think oh no, I've got to paint I've got to do a painting and you know it just comes I don't really plan it out no.