Foreign.

Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

Watch the Joker when he does a no look ass run up the court and then watch him hit a three pointer.

It's night and day.

He's more excited that he had the no look pass than he did the three point shot.

So I enjoy that aspect of the NBA.

I love being basketball Rafael Esparza is.

A global odds maker and professional sports handicapper at Doc Sports.

He has over 14 years of experience as a sportsbook manager at four of the biggest, most well known sports books on the Vegas Strip.

Sparza has more than 18 years of sports handicapping experience and has spent the last seven years with DOC Sports as the Vegas sports informer.

Raphael's success stems from his power ratings and thousands of trends that he's personally tracked over many years.

He's generally considered to be the best NBA handicapper in the country thanks to a remarkable seven consecutive winning seasons.

Hey Hoop Heads.

Imagine having your team's entire development, training and analytics in one place.

That's the Dr.

Dish training management system, TMS, the ultimate coaching platform that transforms your shooting machine into a complete player development engine.

Track every rep, drill and player, assign custom workouts, use shooting maps, leaderboards, and progress across your entire roster all in one dashboard.

Build accountability, unlock smarter reps and take full control of your team's growth.

Need your fire@drdish basketball.com.

Hi, this is Ryan Glenny, Men's Basketball Associate Head Coach at Dallas Baptist University, and you're listening to the Hoop Heads podcast.

Coaches, you've got a game plan for your team, but do you have one for your money?

That's where wealth for Coaches comes in.

Each week we'll deliver simple no fluff financial tips made just for coaches.

Whether you're getting paid for camps, training sessions, or a full season, wealth for Coaches helps you track it, save it and grow it.

It's time to stop guessing and start building.

Subscribe now at wealthforcoaches.be HYive.com subscribe and follow us on Twitter ealthforcoaches for Daily Money wins.

Your money needs a coach.

Start with wealth for Coaches.

Step behind the sportsbook curtain as you listen to this episode with Rafael Esparza, global odds maker and professional sports handicapper at DOC Sports.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here tonight without my co host Jason Sunkel, but I am pleased to be joined by Rafael Esparza from DOC Sports Service.

Rafael, welcome to the Hoop Heads pod.

Thank you for having me.

We talked yesterday Excited to do, always excited to talk a little hoops, even if it's NBA, college basketball, wnba.

I'm always excited to talk about hoops.

And I can't believe Monday tipped off college basketball.

So we have another sports that ends and baseball just ended.

So I wish more sports would end because now it's the pretty much the heart of my industry right now of.

College basketball started absolutely well college basketball.

So you'll see my T shirt here that I'm wearing.

On Monday I had the opportunity to go down and play watch the University of North Carolina play against Central Arkansas.

So John Schulman, who is a friend of the podcast coaches at Central Arkansas and he was nice enough when I saw on the schedule that Central Arkansas was going to open up with Carolina, it was always been on my bucket list to get down to a North Carolina game.

So I asked Schulman, hey, you can get me some tickets.

Ended up getting me a couple seats and went down there with my wife and my daughter and then got into the Central Arkansas shoot around in the Dean Dome, got a little tour of the Carolina locker room facilities from assistant coach Jeff Lebo, longtime Tar Heel and former head coach at Auburn.

So had just.

My wife told me I looked Raphael like I was a little 10 year old kid out on the, getting out on the court in the Dean Dome and walking through the locker room and everything.

And then of course I had to pick up some gear while I was there.

So yeah, great time.

College basketball kicking off.

Always a fun, always a fun time of year for sure.

So before we dive into some of the content of the pod, let's just kind of give people an idea of right now, today, what you're doing and then we'll kind of go and get into your background.

Well, I'm still, I still, I work for Doc Sports.

I've been there for 20 plus years as a writer, content creator and handicapper.

But I've also been in this industry, sports betting industry for almost 30 years.

In 1998 I started Caesar's palace, one of the mecca sports books in Vegas and just worked my way up through there.

Went from Caesars to MGM to MGM to New York, New York to New York, New York and I opened up City Center.

So gradually doing a lot of the same stuff.

When I was at Caesars, I was the guy that put all this stuff in the computer.

Like so if you went to a sports book and you saw all the fancy names and point spreads, someone had to put all that input in there to create that.

So that Was normally myself that, that did that and worked my way up into there.

And then that's how I got into, you know, doing odds for certain stuff.

So I started doing odds over at Caesar's palace helping them do first halfs and half times.

And then my whole management staff from Caesars went all, went up to worked at mgm.

MGM was building a brand new sports book and they hired which is a good friend of mine that still works in industry, they asked him to be a director and he was kindly to ask me to go with him.

So I, I went from Caesars to MGM and then I worked for pretty much MGM Properties for almost, almost 14 Super Bowls.

Now when I say Super Bowls, normally companies say oh, how many years have you.

Oh, I've been in this company years.

5 years, 10 years, 20 years.

When you work in my industry, you don't do years.

You do Super Bowls as Super Bowls are years.

So how many Super Bowls do you work in our industry?

So that's what we count on because that's just the mecca of sports gambling is pretty much NFL and NFL breeds our industry.

So I worked almost, almost 14 Super Bowls for MGM Properties.

So I worked at pretty much all the MGM properties.

At one point they would always ask me to fill in, help out, do odds over there.

I transferred from MGM to New York, New York.

Just that was a right across the street.

And the reason why they transferred me over there was because I'm gonna age myself right now.

Remember the ESPN Zone was a, was a hot happening bar and restaurant and stuff like that.

So they actually moved me over there because our ESPN Zone at in Las Vegas had a studio where we would always do interviews, we would host a lot of events there.

We used to hold billiards tournaments there because they had a private upstairs party.

So arts tournaments there.

We, we hold a lot of.

So they moved me over there so I could do a lot of TV content.

So if someone needed questions about sports gambling, I could just go out of my office and walk 10ft to ESPN zone.

So that's why they transferred me over there, stayed there.

And then the new, the new Shining Light of City center was being built in Las Vegas and they answered.

They asked me to transfer over there and help.

Actually.

I actually designed the sports books.

I actually helped design the sports book and I think that's probably why I got out of corporate life in there.

Because opening up a casino and designing something probably aged me like 20 years.

It was very stressful and I always tell people, yeah, it looks good on a resume.

But boy did that beat me up.

You know, picking up carpet and TVs and staff and what kind of pencils are people going to use it to do parlay cards and stuff like that was just way too tedious for my blood.

And so I left in she's 20 was it 2016 my contract ended up and I was getting so many offers to do so many different odds that Vegas wouldn't let me do.

Like you can't bet the Oscars in Vegas, you can't bet elections, you can't stuff like that.

So I was being offered by so many different companies to do different types of betting as I was doing.

So I, I decided to work for myself.

At the time I was still working for Doc Sports and then I ventured out to do odds for different companies and now I consult a lot of casinos and global sports books for anything and anything you want to bet on.

Yesterday was a big day for me because we had elections in New York and Virginia which we were, we were, we did odds on that.

I do a lot of entertainment movie odds.

Who's gonna die next in a popular show that's on on Netflix.

Stranger Things a new that starts I think coming up.

I have to had a whole bunch of profits on that.

So that's more fun than dissecting NFL odds.

I mean everyone I've been doing this.

I can just do football odds in my sleep.

Doing a research for movies and political and stuff like that.

That's when it takes time because you do a lot of reading, a lot of research and try to figure out what's the public going to do.

What's the public going to bet on.

It's almost betting on Central Arkansas versus North Carolina.

Okay.

You can't make the number so high but how can you make it more competitive where you're going to get Central Arkansas money coming in.

So it's almost looking at that way then compared to North Carolina and Duke we, I mean you have so much information on those two popular teams but when you have a low level team.

No disrespect to Central Arkansas, but when you have that kind of talent versus non talented a lot of research you want to do betting odds, prop bets and stuff like that.

So I, I love the research part of my job more than anything.

How'd you get into it for the first time?

What, what attracted you to it?

What was your first job?

And, and how you get, how'd you.

Get there legally, illegally are two different questions.

Back in the Midwest I can say I dabbled into you Know, taking my brother's action, you know, taking stuff like that.

I got into it really early because I. I couldn't I.

In high school, sports for medical reasons.

And I was always fascinated with the number point of view.

And I always wanted to be around sports.

I knew I couldn't play anymore when the docs play anymore, but I still wanted to be around.

And I didn't want to be a head coach.

I didn't want to be something like that.

I was always fast.

And I remember opening up the Chicago Sun Times when I lived in Chicagoland area.

The back page of the sports page always had the point spreads on it.

The Sheridan sport for every day, every Sunday and stuff like that, for football.

And I was always fascinated with that.

So when I was living in the Midwest area, my parents actually moved to Vegas my senior year in high school.

So I would always go, of course, always go to Vegas to visit them during the holidays.

And I met all the people at Caesar's palace because that's where I used to watch the Super Bowl.

I used to go to Vegas every Super bowl and visit my folks and then go to Caesar's palace and watch the super bowl and play Spats.

And I just got to know all the employees then.

So then when I actually moved to Vegas, I was actually working for another company, not a gaming company.

And it was during the holidays.

And I remember going there to watch college basketball after the holidays.

I was in the sports book and just watching games.

And two managers that used a rich bachelori who works at Circa right now, and Vinny Marullo who actually works for a gaming company, they came up and sat next to me like, rafael, what are you doing here?

It's not super bowl and stuff like that.

Like, you know, I had a rough holiday weekend and stuff like that.

I just wanted to sit back and enjoy some college basketball and not be bothered and like, hey, why don't you come work for us?

You're very smart guy, you know what you're doing and stuff like that.

I'm like, I don't know.

So they actually hired me as a ticket writer.

One of those guys that, you know, you go up to window.

Let me have $20 on the horse.

Number four in horse racing or 20, give me north Carolina to win it all in college basketball.

The guy that punched out the tickets my first day.

Supposed to be a ticket writer my first day.

Feds came in and the gaming control board and arrested a whole bunch of people that were betting outside their window.

They were doing a lot of dirty Stuff.

And so I remember my first day that they told me, hey, can you go in this guy's office revealing us some stuff right now?

We'll get with you when we can.

And they came in and like, hey, Rafael, do you know how to work in computer and stuff like that?

I'm like, yeah.

They're like, here, come follow me.

So I never wrote a ticket.

I was the ad.

I was a sports administrator my day one job was putting information stuff in the computers, which normal people would tell me that's like a two, three year wait to be a ticket writer and then go into the position that was I was in.

So.

But I got there the, the, I guess the worst time for some people, but the best time for myself.

And I just worked my way up and I tell people, if you want to work your way up in Vegas casinos or I guess in any casino or pretty much maybe any profession for me.

I was 22, 23 at the time, was not married, not dating anybody significant, hadn't had no kids.

So I would work any hour.

They told me, hey, I would, I would be the closing guy.

Hawaii halftime.

Hawaii football halftime.

They have a luau.

That game doesn't end till like 12 in the morning.

I would stay there, make sure the game ended, make sure everything got posted, make sure everything is closed.

But have to come back for NFL Sunday, be back there at 6.

Because I, I knew I wasn't like married like a lot of people in my, in the field or had kids and stuff like that.

So I moved up the ranks really quickly because I was willing to come in at any hour, didn't matter, didn't have it.

I would, like I said, no kids, not married at the time.

So I got moved up quickly because of that.

And they were teaching me a lot of stuff quickly.

The ins and outs of inside of a casino.

So that's how I pretty much moved up.

And then it all worked for me.

I worked, like I said, I worked with some of the brilliant minds in our industry that's still working today.

There's a couple guys are in the Sports Betting hall fame that I worked under that taught me so much stuff.

So all my success, I can't say I did it by myself.

I learned from probably some of the best.

And I still call them.

And they call me all the time, hey, what are you hearing about this game?

I'll call them, hey, what are you hearing about this game?

What do you see what's coming through the BET window on this one?

And stuff like that.

So we all communicate and I think that's what helps me do my job.

It helps me at Doc Sports, it helps me be a better presenter of our industry and it helps me if people call me for either media or papers or podcasts or stuff like that.

I can say hey you know what I heard from X, Y and Z that they found out yesterday that more actions coming in on this than that.

And I'm getting it from the, from the inside source, not getting it from Mo.

I've heard, I heard on the, I heard on social media that the books got this well no half time that's.

Not true earlier that you really love the research part of it and obviously now having been a veteran of the industry and having been in this profession for a long time, as you just detailed, how long did it take you to start to feel like you had a handle on some of the different sports and obviously specifically to basketball in terms of being able to accurately look at the odds, figure out some of the things that you're talking about in terms of which teams the public going to like.

How do you set the odds so that it's balanced?

Just tell me about your research process earlier in your career and what you really liked about digging into those numbers.

Well, when I worked in casinos, I mean you would always want to hire someone that's we would call them like perfect example when I was in, in the casino that's when NASCAR was at its peak and remember when NASCAR was at its peak more so some states wanted two races, not just one race interstate.

So we were getting so much heavy action on NASCAR head to head matchups and we would do so many different things what an odd race car win or even number when we were trying to do as much betting stuff on nascar.

So we actually had to hire someone who I don't want to say was a NASCAR expert but a guy that knew ins and outs on the NASCAR betting aspects.

I was always.

So when I was in casinos I would always surround myself with someone who is more sharper than me or that would do the research that sometimes I just didn't have enough time being.

And that's the same thing I do now.

Like I have so many friends that are under the college basketball researchers or handicappers or stuff like that.

You just.

It's constant communication, it's constant reading.

I tell people I hire interns all the time and they think they're just going to come into my office and watch TV all day long which I have a lot of TVs in my office and they're mostly on that.

That is true.

You can probably watch them, but you better get your stuff done.

If I say, hey, can you find me some research on, on this politician or find me some research on this wrestling event because I do a lot of stuff for ww.

Buy me this for hot dog eating contest.

I, I, if I give you something, yes, you can do whatever you want, watch tv, but I better have what I need.

And it's just a lot of research and a lot of note taking.

I mean, I'm old school.

I'm still yellow paper and pencil when I'm doing Reese, when I'm doing research and notes and stuff like that.

So that's why I tell like people who help me interns and stuff like that.

So it's just constant, constant.

That's why like, my wife's a big reader, my dad's a big reader and like, oh, you need to read this book.

I'm like, I do so much reading throughout the day.

Yeah.

Granted, it's on the Internet or, or a magazine or, or something like that, or text messages.

I mean, I'm constantly reading.

The last thing I want to do when I'm trying to go to bed is read a book.

That's funny and probably very, very true.

Talk to me a little bit about how the industry has changed since the dawn of this new era of people being able to bet right from their mobile phone, people not being limited to having to go to Las Vegas, to have to go to Atlantic City, to be able to have gambling be legalized not in every place, but obviously in very many places across the United States.

How has that changed the industry from your perspective and just how you do your day to day work?

Has it changed much at all other than the fact that it's just exploded as an industry?

It hasn't really changed what I do now.

If I was still in Vegas, in the heart of the sports books and stuff like that.

Yes, that's changed.

If more people are, less people are going there.

And even if you lived in Vegas, they want you to sign up and with your phone apps.

So what's the point?

Like, I love people like, oh, I gotta go to, I gotta go to Caesars and cash my ticket.

Like really?

Why don't you just bet on your phone?

I mean, that's like, I'm like the kids then that's like so 1990 with your phone where you go into the, the book itself.

But if I was working in the heart of the sportsbooks.

Yes.

My life would probably be so Much different right now.

But for what I do for a living at DOCS and being a global odds maker for a lot of certain industries and stuff like that, I think my industry has probably peaked because now everyone's trying to outduel profits.

What can you do that that Caesars ain't doing?

What can you do that bet MGM's not doing?

What can you do that's fandos not doing?

So I get more pressure, like, okay, wow, I gotta up my game because Caesars doesn't have this.

But if I put this out, maybe at MGM or use it, or maybe a global book will use it.

So for me, I think my job has probably got more tougher just because I have to do a lot think outside the box and how I can present something different than no one else can bet on.

And so for.

I think for me, it's a little bit more challenging.

But if I was still in the heart of Vegas sports was what I get offered all the time, hey, why don't you come back and you run this book and you run this book and stuff like that?

I'm like, you couldn't pay me enough to work in the Vegas casinos.

Right?

Because it's.

It's not the same industries I went to.

I mean, I loved watching all the lines of people just waiting in line to place their bed and pulling up parlay cards and stuff like that.

That's.

That's not the.

There's non existent anymore in Vegas.

I heard last year's super bowl, all my friends who still worked, they said it was the deadest super bowl they ever worked.

They said it was no lines.

Yeah, they were busy, but not super well busy.

I.

When I was working for Aria and MGM and New York, New York, Super Bowl, I would get a hotel room and I would go there from Friday and not see my wife until Monday.

Because you were just constantly busier all the time.

Because that was the only way to place a bet was to actually physically go to a sports book.

But now I heard that they're dead.

During March Madness and Super bowl, everybody's.

Everybody's right there on their phone, right?

That's what it ultimately comes down to is, like you said, people can make those bets on their phone.

So you mentioned that trying to come up with something unique that maybe some of the bigger sports books don't have.

Can you give us an example of something that you might have come up with or that you might.

That you're thinking about that, hey, could be an angle that could.

Could allow you to attract Some attention away from some of those bigger sports books.

Well, when I was in Vegas, I always wanted to do Oscar odds just because when the Oscars are going, football's over with.

So now you have a big empty sports book on a Sunday when a normal NFL Sunday's jam packed.

I always say, hey, why don't you, why don't we let put odds on every category for the Oscars and have an Oscar party in a sportsbook.

Have everyone dress up.

Food and beverage will make a killing.

You can place your bets, who's going to win Best Picture or stuff like that.

I mean, this is something that makes the sportsbook shine and think outside the box.

And gaming control board would always say, no, we can't do that.

People know the know the results already.

I'm like, but yeah, but you could put like just 25 match bets.

So if someone knows, ooh, what they're gonna win $25, ooh, they're gonna spend $50 in beer and food.

I'm like, this is just for, you know, customer appreciation, customer service, and get them inside the casino.

And that's the probably the biggest headache.

That's one of the reasons why I left.

Because the gaming control boards in most states, the gaming control boards are always, no, no, no, we can't do that.

We can't.

Yes, you can.

You did choose not to do it because there's always an angle.

So, for instance, if I did the Oscar odds in $25 max bets, but we had a guy just lost a million dollars playing Bakara and now he wants to come to the Oscar party and he wants to bet best movie and he wants to bet a million dollars because he just lost.

He's trying to get his money back.

And I tell him, sorry, you can have $25 max bet.

I can guarantee you the president of the casino is going to call me and say, hey, you know what?

Let him bet a million dollars.

And now I'm stuck in the hole because this guy lost a million dollars a bank.

Sometimes sportsbooks have to set their limits and say, you know what, it is what it is.

And I think that's why sportsbooks getting trouble now with these prop bets with players betting and all that.

If you put a certain dollar amount limit, doesn't matter who you are, this is the number you wouldn't have.

What?

We're having a lot of these issues right now, but some guy who just lost $10 million on week nine NFL and wants to bet a $2 million bet on a 500 picking prop bet the casino is going to say, oh, you know what?

We have to give it this.

Because this guy lost all this money last week.

No max bet.

I don't care who you.

That's when you start getting in trouble.

But it's never going to go like that.

That's why a lot of my business goes offshore, global, Ireland, in England and stuff like that.

Because these books don't care about what's going on dirty.

They just.

They care about those guys who just lost millions of dollars, and now he wants to bet a million dollars, I don't know, on a low max bet on a kicking prop, and they're going to give it to him because all they care about what he's putting through the window 365 days a year.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, definitely a challenge when you start talking about that.

When.

Let's talk about the.

Let's talk about the current situation that recently arose in the NBA.

And I guess there's two separate incidences that have come up.

So first, you have the Terry Rozier prop bet, where he tips off some of his friends that he's going to pull himself out of the game.

Those guys make some bets, and then supposedly they're going back to the house to count the money after that's over.

So tell me a little bit about.

Just, first of all, how do the casinos identify that action?

What's the process that they think they go through that they can immediately flag that and say, hey, there's something going on here.

And then just give me your opinion about what.

What can the leagues do to try to ensure that those types of things don't happen, other than continuously educating their players about how they should and shouldn't conduct themselves.

Education shouldn't be the reason.

You know, one thing I do like what UFC is doing now, and I think we're going to see that now, just because of the road here in a porter with the feds getting involved.

I think the feds are going to get involved on everything.

So now if you get busted, you're not going to get a slap on the wrist, you're not going to get fined, you're going to go to federal prison, you're not going to Cook county jail for 24 hours, you'll be going to federal prison.

I think that's going to be the biggest key right now.

So if you.

So are you going to risk it for telling your Buddy, hey, bet $1,000, I'm going to miss a free throw then.

So you can do federal prison from eight to 10 years or whatever, the max sentence.

And I think they're probably will get the max sentence.

I think probably the first 10 people, just because they want to set the example.

I think that's why the feds got involved with the NBA, so they can set that example on Rosier.

And so I think they're going to use him for that example.

So when you are educating, they can say, hey, you know what?

Look at Rozier.

You put a picture of him at federal prison.

He's there right now.

So if you want to risk your $500, tell your buddy to bet that $500 twice to win $1,000.

You're going to risk federal prison, go for it.

I mean, that's your stupidity.

So I think that's probably the biggest thing that's probably going to be positive coming out of here.

And I tell people the victims of all this stuff are the sports books.

We're the ones that are catching all this.

We're the ones that's notifying the feds that, hey, you know what, There's a betting anatomy here.

We caught the UFC one, we caught the Terry Woogier.

We're the ones that called the league.

It wasn't anybody else.

We're the ones that, hey, you know what?

This game's been flagged.

We saw multiple bets being bet in Mississippi and in New and in Louisiana for the Terry Rosier that we're playing the Pelicans at the time.

We're the ones that caught it, but we're the ones that's getting our name dragged in the mud for the bets being placed in.

But it wasn't for us.

It would.

This would have never been caught.

That's why I don't like these congressmen or these people in social communities.

Oh, we should ban player prop bets and stuff like that.

No know, because if you ban them, where they're going to go, they're going to go to the bookie at Applebee's or the.

Or they're going to go offshore and bet them and no one's going to catch it.

So why would you arrest the police who's actually looking for these betting anomalies or ban them and then they're going to bet with a bookie at Applebee's or their.

Or their neighborhood bar or they're going to go offshore and no one's tracking it.

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense from a standpoint, right.

Of when you at least bring it above board and as you said, to be able to set that initial punishment of like, hey, we're going to make an example of the first couple guys that get caught.

I know, I've heard, forget what podcast I was listening to, but I heard a couple guys talking about that, that just the federal government, the league wants to set a precedent of, hey, we're not going to tolerate this.

As you said, if that results in federal prison time, it's definitely going to make guys look both ways before they think about doing anything, you know, anything at all that, that is similar to that.

What, what's your thought on.

I've heard, I've heard people talk about this, too, where there's, there's the window between when a team, let's say an NBA team, has a shoot around during the day and then they have to put the injury report out.

And there's this time in between where maybe a player's been day to day or they're questionable, no one knows for sure if they're going to play.

But then the player in that whatever hour or two window says to his buddy, hey, man, I don't, I don't think I'm going to play tonight.

And maybe it's not even a, a nefarious thing, or he's trying to give the guy a tip about gambling, but he's just talking to somebody.

And then that somebody comes and takes it and runs and goes and gives that information to, to somebody else.

What are the scenarios there in terms of just thinking about how does somebody in the industry think about that and is there a way for that to be police?

Or is that just something that's human nature that we all just have to live with as, as part of the system here?

It's human nature.

Remember back in the day, like probably the late 80s, early 90s, we didn't have computers and cell phones.

We used to get our injury reports from calling the newspapers and stuff like that.

Hey, what are you hearing?

Hey, were you on the sideline at practice?

What did you see?

There was no Internet, there was no cell phones and stuff like that.

You don't think games are being fixed back in the 80s and 90s.

Right now it's just everyone has a camera, everyone has a thumbprint on social media.

So, yes, it's coming out there, but this has been happening for decades.

Just like I said with the ufc, that happened this week.

You don't think boxers back in the 60s and 70s and 80s were being asked to fix fights?

Shoot.

That's the opening scene from Daredevil, the comic book where his dad dies.

He got his.

The mafia told him to fix a fight and they killed him.

I mean, I think the reason why it's blown up as much because we're in a 365 day news cycle.

Back in the day we didn't have 360, but we didn't have social media, we didn't have all this.

I mean I've been telling people this is, this is Europe's daily life.

There's been so many soccer fixed matches.

Tennis has the most fixed matches than anybody.

Not if there's nothing even close than tennis and soccer and rugby and all those people.

But, but here is, it's happening into almighty United States and the world has to stop because someone threw a fight at UFC or, or something, or someone got caught playing poker.

I mean I used to, I used to hear stories, I worked in a casino.

I used to hear stories with suites that would have poker games in a suite in a casino.

Why wouldn't you just go downstairs and play poker in their room?

But like, but they made a.

So I mean of course they were cheating, of course they were, you know, cheating in poker.

But like everyone keeps on asking me what's the difference between legalized poker game in my garage or, and stuff like that.

I'm like, I tell people if you have to pay a doorman and if you have to pay a cocktail waitress and pay a poker dealer, then you have a casino in your, in your garage.

Now if you're just playing with your buddies and you're the dealer and they're getting their own beer and the security system is the garage door opener going up and down.

No, that's not a casino.

But I've, I've known many dealers, dealers that, that are poker dealers in Vegas that get hired to go to California.

Hey, can you deal my game?

We'll pay you X, Y and Z.

They just want a biased dealer.

They don't want, hey, this is my neighbor, he's gonna deal today.

No, they just want someone, a professional dealer or they'll hire cocktail wages.

I've heard cocktails.

Oh, I got invited to be a cocktail wages at this guy's blackjack tournament or something in his garage.

Now you are casino.

Now you're a casino if you're hiring people.

That's the difference.

Help me to understand in the other arm of this latest NBA gambling issue, the illegal poker games help me understand the technology that was being used to allow the games to be rigged.

So when the, the, the high rolling guys are coming in with their money and, and, and being taken and being attracted by Whether it was Chauncey Billups or whether it was Damon Jones or whoever it may be that that was kind of helping to, to bring these, bring these guys in.

Talk to me about some of the tech, the X ray technology on the, the table and the, the ink on the cards and the, the glasses and all that stuff.

What can you, what, what kind of light can you shed on that for me to help, help me and help people who are listening to kind of understand that piece of it.

Not the biggest reality TV watcher at all.

But if they ever made a reality show about Vegas surveillance cameras, like the people who sit there and watch the cameras all day long would watch that.

Because I've been into surveillance rooms plenty, plenty of times when I worked in Vegas and it was fascinating.

And that's probably where I learned most of like the contact lenses that the guys were wearing that could read their special cars that they had and the special table that they had and stuff like that.

So yeah, contact lenses, glasses marked cards that they were using.

I mean I read the indictment.

To me it sounded like they were just using Porter's name to him to bring in some of his high classy billups.

His high class friends is up there.

The, there's just some names, Kevin Garnett's name's been mentioned, Tyrone Lou's name's been mentioned.

Other names, stuff like that.

I don't know how, how close that is on that one, but to me that's what it sounds like.

But the scientific stuff that they had to the cocktail waitress having something on her that she, that she was able to see the, the cards and stuff like that, that's way, that's, that's a movie that, that George Clooney is probably going to be involved probably in the next three to four years on that.

So I'm excited to watch that movie because I always tell people, I think a lot of the reason why the poker thing got such a big thing because when you have the word mafia involved in any kind of criminal thing you did, that's another story.

And when they, when I, when I watched that press conference twice, not only did they use the word mafia a lot, they used the mafia names.

They didn't say, oh, we just Joe Schmoes mafia that runs 8th street, was it?

No, they mentioned not one, but two mafia families.

Now you're in, now you're in trouble.

Now you're probably talking about, okay, if you are going to federal prison, Philip, you might want to sleep with one eye open.

Because if you had not One, but two mafia families mentioned on that.

That's something you don't want to be involved.

I mean I lived in the Midwest in the Chicagoland area and I, I was around a lot of that with friends of mine and stuff like that.

You don't want to be involved on a negative side of it, maybe the positive side, but you don't want to be in a negative side.

So I think that had a lot to.

I think that probably peaked the storyline.

If you say, oh, Porter got our Phillips got busted for a legal poker game in his hotel room.

Ooh, that's no big deal.

I mean NBA players play poker in the plates and shoot.

I used to watch Jordan tons of money at the golf course when he, we would hold his whole tournaments in, in Vegas like that.

That's nothing.

But when you had the mafia involved winning, that's a. I think that's the reason why.

I think that hit a lot of peaks.

Yeah, the Mafia and the technology were the two things that jumped out at me.

When you start looking at it and you say yeah, this is more than just a little poker game that they're throwing together and trying to take some people's money.

It seemed like it was a fairly sophist, you know, scheme that they had, that they had running that they were, you know, that they were, they were trying to put together.

All right, let's talk about setting the odds for.

Let's start with the NBA.

Setting the odds for an NBA game.

What are some of the factors that you look at when you're trying to set the odds or when a sportsbook tries to set the odds for a particular game?

What are some of the key things, key factors that you want to take into account and, and look at when you're trying to put that together.

I think a lot of people, especially odds maker friends of mine and stuff like that, I think they look probably NBA has to be looked through it totally different now these days because of the injuries, the late injuries.

It's almost like, okay, when you put your first opening number, it's you're like tomorrow's games would be tomorrow's games up already.

Let's see.

Hold on.

I can tell you right now, I know there's only one NHL.

Oh no, there's only one NBA.

The NMRGs.

Oh, they don't want to touch Thursday Night Football.

That's why.

So tomorrow's numbers out already.

It's Clippers, Phoenix.

When you open up that you right there, you're already just looking for two way action.

Okay.

You want?

Okay.

If someone bets the Phoenix Suns, you're already okay, I need some Clipper action.

So you're trying to balance your books out now.

Anywhere between the morning shoot around, usually we find out people are not playing three, four o' clock Eastern standard time.

So now you have to adjust what the bettors did way before they released who's playing and who's not playing.

So now you pretty much have two numbers in your head.

Okay, we're heavy on the Clippers from the morning till three.

Now we're really heavy because everyone jumped on them because Booker is now playing for Phoenix.

Now we're trying to chase action for three hours before the game tips off.

So NBA is kind of tricky now these days.

You really have to try to do your research.

If for instance, example for the Lakers, they're playing tonight, no Luke up back to back games.

We kind of knew that the Lakers were probably going to rest no Austin Reeds.

And we kind of knew that was happening.

So we had a feeling already now if you would have played then we might be backtracking a little bit.

But we already had a gut feeling that he wasn't.

So not only are you gambling on placing your bets, we're actually gambling and trying to always so and so gonna play.

We're not gonna probably find out till 3 o', clock, 4 o'.

Clock.

So we're actually gambling on our numbers now.

NBA, I think is really probably the trickiest or right now with injuries and who's playing.

And I've been telling people once LeBron leaves and once Kawhi Leonard and all these older Kevin Durant, all that.

I think load management is probably gonna take a little bit of backseat.

I don't see Wemby saying, hey, I need a load management because I played last night.

I don't see these young, younger kids like, like, I mean, of course Ant man has that bad.

He's got a hamstring.

Hamstring or ankle right now.

That's a significant injury.

But I've never heard him say, you know what?

I played last night, I'm tired, I can't go.

I think once these older players hang it up, I don't think we're gonna see or hear that much about low management.

Because these kids who are playing down the league, who are probably the same kids, I can't believe I got tickets to go watch LeBron play or Durant playing.

They're not playing because of load management.

So these kids probably were those kids in the stands waiting to see their favorite player.

And he's not playing because of load management.

So I think that's going to flip flop once these older people hang their jerseys up.

Yeah, that's an interesting perspective that I hadn't really considered or thought of.

When you start talking about just this generation is obviously the first one where loads management has become a factor.

I know that Michael Jordan was on his little segment on NBC talking about just the fact that he didn't believe in load management.

Right.

He played multiple seasons where he played all 82 games.

And just again, it was a different, a different era.

And maybe we're heading back to the era where guys are out on the floor a lot more.

When this generation of players, as you said, this older generation moves on, it'll be interesting to see if that trend ends up going away and it gets back to maybe more how it was where unless you had a major injury, you weren't just sitting out because you needed, you needed a rest.

And it is, it is interesting to think about how the game has changed.

One of the arguments that I hear kind of thrown around out there is just the way that the game of basketball has changed.

That the defense is far more intense and teams have to cover so much more of the floor because of the amount of three pointers that are being shot.

And a term that you hear a lot, Rafael, is the, is, is the, the variance, right, of the three point shot that a team can.

If a team's going to put up 50 threes in a game, well, one game maybe there's going to make 25 of them and they're probably going to win.

And then the next game they could get the exact same shot profile and only make 12 and all of a sudden they're going to lose.

And they basically played the same type of game.

It's just a matter of did those shots go in.

And there's just a lot more variance in that than there was in old school basketball where you were more trying to work and get the ball as close to the basket and shoot as many layups as you could.

So how have you seen that?

Has that trend of just the three point shot, how has that affected sort of what you do and how you look at games?

It's affected the total.

I mean we've seen more 2 40s and 2 45s for the betting total just because of that.

But I tell people you live by the three, you die by three.

AKA the Boston Celtics last year they won their blowout games because they shot 36% or higher in three points.

They got blown out because they didn't shoot that percentage and they still jacked up 50 plus three pointers.

So it's all about hit, hit or miss I think.

I mean there's still players like DeRozan for the kings, the king of the two point shot.

I mean there's still players that are out there.

There's still teams that are out there.

The Chicago Bulls, yes, they're, they've only had one loss.

So the surprising Chicago Bulls in the Eastern Conference they don't really shoot that much threes out there.

They go to the paint a lot.

They go to, they shoot a lot of free throws.

Same thing with Denver, the Denver Nuggets, the Joker, yeah he does shoot threes but his main brother is down below.

I think Wemby same thing.

I think when he gets bigger and more mature he's gonna, yeah he could shoot the three but he's gonna realize no one can guard me down below just like I don't think Ayton's gonna guard him tonight.

Oh yeah, Aiden had 29 plus points but last game but he ain't gotta do that.

Yeah, give me a break.

But I just think we're going to see some of these teams go, go back into and I think once Steph Curry and these guys that created these long shots, yes, kids coming in, they're making at that but they're not going to make it.

The success rate, we've seen it.

I don't see anybody coming out of college or anything that that's kind of shooting style like Steph Curry.

I think, I think once he goes, I think we're going to go back to some kind of normalcy because everyone wants to see if they can shoot from the logo.

I mean but he's the only one really.

I mean Trey Young, but he can't stay healthy right now and he's probably not going to be a Hawk anytime soon.

Now it's a one of one, let's put it that way.

There's never been anybody like him and it's hard to imagine that there's going to be somebody that's going to be able to duplicate that.

Clearly the best shooter in the history of the game.

When you just factor in the types of shots that he takes and the kind of movement that he takes those shots off of.

There's been nobody that even, even comes close to what Steph Curry has, has been able to do for the game in that respect.

How do you think about new guys coming in when a new rookie class comes in and I'm thinking about the prop bet side of it.

You don't really have a track record of what this guy is going to be like early in his career.

You're trying to get a feel for those players.

How does that impact, again, some of those prop bets with a guy like Cooper Flag who comes in and everybody expects him to be great right away.

So how do you set the line early on on his over under for points?

What's that, what's that process look like in terms of trying to figure that out?

His first bad games was, was, was heavenly, probably for sportsbooks, as he was not putting up big numbers.

And I think the same thing with that.

I think there's only a small handful of rookies that are gonna get you that number.

And no disrespect to Cooper, he's probably going to be a really good player once he gets a point guard.

When you have him bringing up the ball up the court.

I know, I mean, that's not his style.

I mean, once Irv, once Ty or Kyrie comes back, I think we're going to see the Cooper Flag that we want to see.

But yeah, these rookies coming in, it's a little bit hard.

We have to like, maybe dip our toes a little bit, wait for a couple weeks before we get to see what the betting public is going to do right away.

So maybe set, set low limits on them just because we have really no bread and butter.

We have college numbers, but it's not totally different.

And we don't even have preseason numbers because they're not playing the full 20 plus minutes in a preseason.

So for rookies like that, I'm not saying Cooper was a bad rookie coming in, but he wasn't a Wemby, he wasn't a LeBron.

Those guys were coming in, we knew who they were, especially Wemby, who had overseas experience.

Having someone born come in is so much easier to do prop bets than it is for a college kid coming in and a rookie.

Especially if these guys like these Wemby and all these other ones who played in the Olympics or played in their, their type of tournaments, that's pretty much almost pro experience that you have.

And so it's so much easier to do it that way than having some rookie come in from college.

Which is funny, because I bet if you go back 15 years ago, it feels like it might have been the opposite, where guys that stayed in college for three or four years, that they had a track record and there was a lot less information about European basketball and So a lot of those guys, it used to be before, right.

That you would see these guys that very rarely would you have a foreign player drafted in the top 10 of the NBA draft.

If you go back 15 or 20 years ago, it really never happened.

And so the guys that did, you were like, well who?

I mean what information do we have on any of these guys?

How do we know anything?

Conversely, you had college guys who everybody stayed through their junior year.

So you watched them for three years in college.

You had a pretty good handle on the fact that, hey, this guy who's been in the college basketball for three or four years, he's going to come in and we know right off the gate he's going to be.

We knew Tim Duncan was going to be a really productive NBA player when he comes into the league after playing four years away.

Forest.

Right.

But now, right now you have these guys that play one year, they're 19 years old, they're coming into a man's league.

I mean you got to almost throw your hands up and be like, I mean yeah, we think these guys are going to have potential long term.

But as far as a top 10 guy being productive, who knows if he's going to be a rookie of the year type of player or is he a guy who's going to play sparingly as a first year player and maybe isn't going to develop until his third, fourth, fifth year or maybe never develop because we're drafting these guys so young.

Yeah.

And I think the NBA is in a kind of a goal right now because once LeBron and Steph and Durant and Kawhi all go, who's going to be that face of the league?

And if you had to choose right now, it's a non American that will be the face of the league.

It could be either Wemby, it could be Luca, even SGA's from Canada.

He's not full blown America.

So I think that's why, I mean they would love the ant man to the Anthony Edwards to explode and maybe win a chip over in Minnesota.

So maybe he, they can, you know, pass the torch to him.

But if I don't think Luca would be it just because he's a guy that can't play defense.

I don't care how much weight you lost.

And I think the alien, the Wimby, I mean I tell people it's like almost watching Ohtani play basketball because he's doing stuff that you never thought that you're doing.

And then I read an article, was it yesterday and all that, that he's lying about his height, that he's actually really taller, but he's ashamed about how tall he keeps on getting and stuff like that.

So this guy's probably 7, 10.

We don't really know what he is out there.

But yeah, I think the NBA is kind of in the pickle because I'm not saying they don't want Wemby or Luca or sga, but now that.

But when you have an American sport and such a high peak now, globally, you would think you would want a Jordan, Bird, Magic, LeBron, stuff like that to carry the torch.

And right now, I'm sorry to say, I don't see one carrying a torch that has American background.

Even, like I said right now, what Wemby's doing, it's almost like.

Like I said, it's hit or miss when you're watching.

It's almost like, I want to watch the Dodgers play just because of Ohtani.

I want to watch the spurs play because of Wemby.

The best five guys in the league right now are all foreign guys, right?

You got the Joker, you got Luca, you got Giannis.

Yeah, you got what?

You got Wemby, and you got sga.

And so those five guys, I think consensus wise, are the five best players in the league, and they're all foreign born.

And so, yeah, it's.

It's definitely an interesting spot for the NBA to be in.

Kind of like tennis, right back in the heyday of the John McEnroe, Jimmy, Jimmy Connors, Pete Sampras, Agassi, all those guys.

And then American tennis is kind of falling off the wheel, you know, falling off the wagon.

There really hasn't been a male American tennis star in a while, and I think it's definitely affected the popularity, at least from a spectator standpoint of.

Of tennis, for sure.

Who's your favorite NBA player or team to watch?

What.

What teams do you like?

If you get a chance to.

If you get a chance to watch a game, who.

Who are you trying to watch?

Who do you want to see?

It's really funny.

Everyone always asks me that.

I am the most calmest person when it comes to NFL View, Wing and stuff like that.

Because I only have one favorite team, and it's more mentally the Chicago Cubs.

Because when I was growing up in the Midwest, in the Chicagoland area, WGN was one of the channels that we always got.

So I wasn't the most healthiest kid and stuff like that.

So I always watch Cubs baseball and wgn.

Probably Harry Carey is probably one of my favorite characters of all time and stuff like that.

But I don't have a favorite NBA team.

I don't have a favorite NFL team.

So people like, oh, I can't believe my team lost Sunday.

I'm like, oh, I don't have a team.

So I felt really good all day Sunday.

But I enjoy watching Wemby play.

I just think he's a freak out there.

I like teams.

I like team ball especially.

I think that's why I like college basketball is probably my favorite sport to watch more than NBA.

But I do like team basketball.

I love as I love Oklahoma City.

There's so such a deep team where they can beat you and still play eight, nine guys and you know, you don't even realize eight, nine guys hit the court.

They could have seven guys hit double digits in a game and at the same time you're reading the box for the next day, like, wow, they had seven guys.

I watched that game.

I can't believe seven guys hit a double digit.

So I like watching team ball.

I love watching the Joker play just his assists.

I love his passing game.

I mean, here's a guy that's that tall and cheers up and down the court on a good pass more than is on a three point shot that he made always.

I tell people I watch the Joker when he does a no look ass run up the court and then watch him hit a three pointer.

It's night and day.

He's more excited that he hit the no look pass than he did the three point shot.

So I enjoy that aspect of the NBA, but I love team basketball.

I think that's why I love watching college basketball.

Yeah, I agree with you on the passing.

I've told this story on the podcast, but before.

But there was a game when I was sitting in the stands with my daughter and something happened on the court.

Player threw a really nice pass.

I'm like, wow, that was a great pass.

I love that pass.

And my daughter turned and looked at me.

She's like, dad, it was the only thing you ever get excited about when you're watching a basketball game is a great pass.

I'm like, yeah, I go, you're right.

Because there are very few guys that understand how to pass or have that passing gene.

And certainly Jokic is one of those guys that just takes pleasure, as you said, from throwing a great pass.

And I think that when you talk about team basketball, right, that's what it's all about.

The secret to basketball is not it's not a Secret it's play together and compete and share the ball and don't really care who ends up scoring the basket.

And the teams that are the most successful, yeah, they have guys who are their leading scorer, they have guys who they want to get the ball to in the most important moments.

But ultimately those are teams that they share the ball and they understand that every guy has a role.

And if you play your role and the five guys work together, that's how you're going to have success.

And it's amazing to me at all levels of basketball, you can start out in third grade basketball and you can go all the way up to the NBA that there's guys who go through that entire process and they're in the NBA and they still don't understand that secret, that playing team basketball is ultimately what helps you to win.

And I know that there's obviously some benefit in the NBA of being a guy that puts up statistics and scores, and that equates to the amount of money that you can make on your next contract.

But if it just comes down to winning, it's amazing to me the number of guys that don't understand what winning is all about.

There's different ways to put together a team of basketball players.

There's different way to play team, there's different ways to play team basketball and different types of offenses and styles that you can play.

But ultimately it comes down to, am I willing to sacrifice and share the ball with my teammates?

And if I am, then no matter what system we're running, our team's probably going to have success.

And it's amazing to me how many people don't understand that.

Rafael.

No, I think that's why OKC is going to be a force for, for many years.

I mean, they're undefeated right now.

Their, their depth is unbelievable.

Their payroll is not too bad.

I mean, they signed these guys pretty much all the same year, so they're going to be stuck around for a while and they share the ball.

I mean, there's not one team that's, that doesn't share the ball more than they do.

So they're going to be tough out in the west, and I think they're going to be beaten when these bad contracts go off like LeBron's contract.

I think Lakers will be okay once he retires because they'll have so much free money up there.

Same thing with Kevin Garnett when he leaves Houston.

So much free money, Golden State free money.

Because these guys, I'm not saying Steph Curry, he's He's played for one team, so he deserved all that.

I. I respect guys who play for one team, but, I mean, if.

I'm not bashing LeBron on this one, but if he really wanted to build a championship, he.

He should have been taking Tom Brady money or Patrick Mahomes money to build a team around him if he really wanted another ring.

I mean, look how many times Tom Brady did it.

Look how many times Patrick Mahomes did it.

And then look at the six, the success they had.

So LeBron really wanted another ring for him and his son.

You know what?

I'll take one year, five mil, and then that rest of the money.

They can build a better bench or maybe get another score or a rim stopper or something like that.

So I think people forget about that.

Hey, those two guys who have a lot of rings, Tom Brady has a lot of rings.

I think Patrick Holmes probably gonna have a lot of them.

They're sacrificing money that they really don't need because they're getting money in endorsements and other things else, but they're sacrificing team money to build a better team.

It'll be interesting to see what LeBron does at the end of this season when his contract is up and he's an unrestricted free agent for the first time.

It'll be interesting to see if you think he's going to retire.

Yeah, he's got old.

He's got old people injuries now.

I mean, when you're sciatica and back, that's.

That's when Mother Nature is telling, you know what, play golf, do some swimming.

There's a new sport called pickleball.

Do that.

I would be totally blown away if he plays another year.

It's funny that you say Mother Nature, because that's been a running joke on our podcast for probably since seven years that we've been doing this.

So we.

We started it back in.

During the 2018 NBA Finals, and we've been saying year after year after year that nobody, nobody beats Father Time.

And we're like, well, looks like LeBron's beating Father Time again this year.

Father Time is.

Is chasing, is chasing and chasing and hasn't caught him yet.

Finally looks like finally, Father Time is.

Father Time is on his way to finally overtaking LeBron in.

In that race, which we all knew was going to come at some point.

But what he's been able to do, obviously, just incredible to be able to remain as healthy and is at a higher level as he's been able to since, you know, for the duration of his career, just kind of incredible.

I agree.

All right, let me ask you about college basketball.

And you've said that you're a big college basketball fan.

And one of the things that growing up in my life, I always feel like I was a huge college basketball fan.

And over time here, as NIL has crept in over the last couple years and the transfer portal, one of the things that's frustrating as a college basketball fan is the fact that every single year it's a different team.

Right.

If I'm a North Carolina fan, the 15 guys they have on the roster this year, maybe you're going to get five, six, seven of those guys back.

Maybe if you're lucky, you're going to keep half your roster for sure you're going to turn over the other half.

And so you never really get to know those players and those teams the way you did.

Say back in the 80s, when I was a kid and was watching North Carolina or I was watching Georgetown or you're watching Duke or you're watching Kentucky and those teams kind of, you would see those players grow together and you get to know them over time.

And now it's like every team is new.

And the coaches who we have on the podcast as guests, they're still trying to figure out that landscape of what's it look like every year to build a team and build a culture and build the kind of basketball that you talked about, right, that you like watching team basketball every year when it's a new team, that's difficult to do.

So how has that impacted your college basketball fandom and sort of the way you approach the game as just somebody who enjoys college basketball, it takes a.

While to get used to it because then most of these teams are starting to need to gel a little bit.

Perfect example, LA Tech last night against Nevada bringing home up pretty much three new starters into their team and they score 14 points in the second half of like five minutes left to go because they're not gelling.

Every bad turnovers.

Passing was horrendous.

So it takes a while for them to gel.

I mean, of course you're going to have teams that still recruit well and, and pick up maybe one or two people from a transfer portal.

But some of these smaller schools, like, they bring a whole brand new starting five in into the miss, so it's really hard to enjoy it.

That's why I'm kind of glad, like, oh, yeah, it started Monday, but shoot, we just had game seven in the World Series.

We Have NBA and NHL and college football.

So yes, I'm still watching college basketball, but it's not like watching college basketball January 1st or December or watching Great Alaska Shootout on Christmas Day.

That's one of the ESPN2 games at 11 o' clock at night and everyone else is sleeping, but you got to watch the Great Alaskan Shootout and stuff like that.

That's totally different.

But right now you're seeing a lot of sloppy ball because of new faces and new teams are still trying to gel with each other.

So I'm glad that they start now because yeah, I'm watching.

I watched a dude game yesterday.

Love the story of Boozer getting yelled in the locker room and he kind of came out like a totally different person in the second half.

I love those type of stories.

I watched the game, but it's not like I had all my TVs on on college basketball because again it's November 5th.

I had hockey, NBA, I had Mac action and college football.

But it takes a little bit a while to just to learn some of these teams and I.

That's why one thing about college sports, I hate college signing days now.

It's I don't care what hat you put on, you should put five hats on because you're going to wear five hats before you leave in your college education.

I'm tired of my.

My brother's oldest one who's a volleyball player who was going to McKenzie State in the Midwest, a top volleyball college.

He was re recruited by Stanford and San Diego and at byu.

But I told my brother, I'm like, no, I'm not gonna buy a polo or a hat because he's probably gonna transfer out if he has a killer sophomore year or junior year, stuff like that.

No, I'm not gonna buy a polo.

I'll buy a polo or his shirt his senior year with school he's going to not a freshman.

But I think that's it.

You still, you just got to get used to this.

The sign of the times with the transfer portal.

I think like in football, I think it hurts crushes the SEC because now you.

When you watch college games you say oh so and so just made a tackle.

Former Alabama player or former Georgia player because these kids can transfer.

Oh, I, I didn't get the playing time they promised me or I didn't like the head coach or I didn't.

There was.

The city was boring.

I'm transferring out.

So I think it hurts the bigger schools.

Like I think in college basketball I think it hurts the big, the big east and the Big Ten a little bit because some of these teams say, okay, I'm going to Indiana.

I might have to sit.

I may be the sixth man coming off my freshman, but all of a sudden, wow, now I'm the seventh man because some guy outplayed me in practice and I'm transferring out.

I'm like, I don't care, I'm going to be a starter next year.

I didn't like the way I was treated this year, so I think it helps.

It helps the smaller schools and getting better players.

Put more majority on, okay, this team's not going to dominate.

And I think it crushes the SEC and college football and we're seeing it just the way that SEC has played.

I mean, Big Ten can win back to back to back national championships in college football.

It's interesting when I think about this, especially on the college basketball side of it and talking to coaches, it feels like you have a roster, right?

And let's say you have 12 guys on your roster.

And if you're a mid major college basketball program, normally those programs thrive on finding a diamond in the rough guy, right?

That and they end up developing, or maybe the guy was under the radar, could have gone and played at a higher level, but ends up coming into a mid major, gets there, likes it, stays four years, grows up.

You have these more experienced teams at the mid major level that enable them to compete with some of the bigger schools that maybe are built around some of the younger players, freshmen and sophomores.

But now if you're a mid major, right, you recruit that sort of under the radar kid and he has a really good freshman year, even if he has a really good sophomore year, most of those kids at the top end of the roster who are the leading scorers at those schools are going to end up probably transferring up.

And then at the same point you have guys at the back end of the roster who are disgruntled, right?

They're like, oh, you know, like I should be playing and mom and dad's in their ear, their AAU coaches in their ear, saying, hey, you should be going to somewhere else so you can play.

So then those guys at the back end of the roster that as you described are unhappy, those guys leave and so you're kind of left with the sort of your maybe fourth and fifth starter and maybe your sixth and seventh man, and those are the guys you end up returning.

And then you're kind of turning over the front end of the roster and the back end of the roster and it's just it's super interesting in that respect of trying to figure out if you're a coach, how do I build that continuity and how do I try to put it together.

And I think coaches are just getting to the point now where they've accepted the fact that continuity in college basketball or college sports as we know it is kind of out the door.

And it's every year you got to build a new team.

And I just don't know how again, how does that impact the popularity of the sport with the general public?

I still think college basketball is incredibly popular and obviously the tournament from a betting standpoint.

I'm sure you can speak to just how popular betting on the NCAA tournament is, both legally and through office pools and everything else that's always been around.

But it's just, it's such a different world with college basketball because of that roster turnover.

Especially again, I think at any program you just.

Guys that are unhappy are going to go somewhere else and guys that do really well are going to think, hey, I can go to the next biggest level of school and have success there.

So if I'm at a lower level SEC school, right.

I think, hey, man, I was a great player at Ole Miss.

Maybe I could transfer and now be a starter at Kentucky because I proved myself at Ole Miss.

It's just the roster turnover is really incredible and I just again, for you guys trying to figure out what you know, especially early in the season before, you know, the teams trying to figure out the odds, I'm sure is the challenge.

Yeah, I could.

It wouldn't shock me in five years that I think they're going to have a limit of how many times you can transfer out, especially if you have working at nil money.

I think if you have NMR and you transfer out, you should have to give some of that money back.

I mean, you didn't say if you got X, Y and Z and they're expecting you to be there for at least two years and you leave after year.

I think you have to give some of that nil money back.

But it wouldn't shock me.

In.

In five years we'll see.

You only have two max transfer portal or you can put your name twice or whatever.

Because it is getting ridiculous right now and a lot of kids are getting misinformation.

You said that they're AAU coach or getting bad advice from their, from their parents and stuff like that.

I think it's damaging more kids than it's actually helping more kids.

There's a lot of kids that go into the transfer portal and they never come out right.

They never get signed.

They go in there and they think they're going to transfer and, and, and nobody ends up recruiting them.

And then they, they're just kind of floating out there and their, their college basketball career is, is over.

And that's what you want to avoid.

And I do think that they're the mechanism for being able to pay college athletes or for college athletes to be able to transfer.

I think the idea of that in theory is a good one.

I do think that the players deserve to be paid in some way and I do think that the ability to transfer should be there.

Especially when you go back to sort of the draconian ways it was before where guys couldn't.

Players, players would have to sit out a year if they're going to transfer.

Meanwhile, the coach that they signed up to play for leaves as soon as they sign their letter of intent, goes and gets a huge payday or gets a big buyout or whatever.

It just felt like the odds were stacked against the athletes.

But I do think it's kind of become the Wild west and nobody really could anticipate that this was the way that it was going to go.

I just know that from talking to people that the NCAA feels that at this point trying to enforce almost any rule, what's going to happen is they're going to get taken to court and they're going to, they're going to lose.

And so it puts the NCAA in a pretty difficult position.

I agree.

Hopefully it does change.

Yeah, we, we shall, we shall see when that, when that, when all is said and done.

I'm not sure it'll be interesting.

Tell me a little bit about the.

Just your thoughts on the, on the NCAA tournament and trying to go through it and pick winners in the NCAA tournament.

What, what's that?

What, what advice do you have for somebody?

Just that they're.

If they want to throw, throw their office pool together.

What's, what's some advice that you could give somebody for, for their office pool.

In March Madness for the last couple years has been chalk.

Chalk chalk.

So normally I say sprinkle some dogs.

For the last couple years there's been chalk eating.

So for me it's the greatest time of the year.

Of the year in sports.

I love March Mass.

My favorite tournament because anybody and has a shot on everybody.

Because college basketball you can be hot at three point land and you can be gone in a three point land.

In football you can't NBA you really can't a college basketball.

We've seen Connecticut, who came in at on the bubble and win it all because they got hot at the right time, they won the Big east tournament, got hot in the right time, and they're cutting down the nets.

So when you're filling out, it's.

People don't understand.

I have never filled out a bracket.

I probably haven't filled out a bracket in like 30 years because for me, when I'm looking at games, I'm looking at the bracket.

Okay, if this team beats this team, what's the point spread going to be on Saturday's game if they're playing Thursday?

So I'm always.

My head's always looking ahead, so I'm not.

Oh, I think genomics and stuff like that.

So it's really hard for me.

That's why I've never played a fantasy sport, because I'm always.

My mind is always looking on a number point of view.

Not by.

Not by, oh, I need this guy to have three rushing yards to get six points.

Or I'm like, I don't know.

That's not up for me.

But I think for brackets and all that.

Always look for hot teams coming against teams that weren't highly ranked in their conference tournament, but maybe won their conference or even lost in a championship game in their conference tournament.

They could win two easy games opening up on a Thursday or the playing game and stuff like that.

I always tell them, look at the conference tournament, because, yes, I know the big guys don't really care about winning the conference tournament, but some of these teams want to go into the NCAA tournament on a hot hand.

Okay.

All right, now.

Okay.

We're only going to go eight deep coming in this tournament.

Eight deep would work really well for the conference tournament.

That's what we're going to do.

So you see a lot of momentum coming in if you had a really, really good conference tournament.

I think that's why we've seen a lot of Mountain west teams coming in to the bracket because they got hot late, did really well in the conference tournament, maybe didn't win because they couldn't beat San Diego State or something like that, but they played really well and now they have great momentum, them coming in to the tournament.

So I always tell people, look at conference tournaments when you're filling out your.

Bracket, that's good advice.

I think it's.

Again, when you have a team that is.

Is playing well at the end of the season, right.

Your overall record can be deceiving depending upon which direction your team is trending.

If they're trending up, are they hot?

And that may be a team to ride.

And if they're a team that's maybe started out hot and goes in the other direction, I think the NBA is like that too.

There's a lot of teams, you know, sometimes you get the team that comes out of the gate fast and they have a good record at the beginning of the season and then they go.500 for the second half of the year.

And Partius says, well, you know, man, they just took the foot off the, they took their foot off the gas and they could turn it back on in the playoffs.

But I think generally speaking, the trend that you're on as you're approaching the playoffs in the NBA or the NCAA tournament as a college basketball team, I think those are trends that I would tend to believe in.

Just knowing what the dynamics of a team are, right?

When, when you're winning and things are going well and everybody's feeling good, everybody's smiling, things are, things are positive.

And if things haven't been positive for a while, if you're only kind of skating along at 500, nobody's nearly as happy as they were when you were when you're winning a lot of games.

Right.

I just want Gonzaga to cut the nets once.

That's all I wanted before I see my Cubs win a World Series.

I've seen a whole bunch of stuff that I didn't think I was going to see before I died.

I just want to see Gonzaga win it.

Ones.

I mean they've been, they've been either a thorn in my back when I worked in Vegas casinos or that.

Or they've been, oh, they, this is their year and they don't win it.

So I, I just want to see the Bulldogs cut the down med school.

Totally, totally understandable.

Totally understandable.

I, I have to tell you.

So I'm a Cleveland Indians fan and so the Cubs, I was, I was happy for the Cubs.

I'm so sorry.

No, it's all good.

Listen, I was happy for the Cubs in a sense of clearly the, the long time suffering of a Chicago Cubs fan.

But I had an opportunity to go to that game seven of the World Series.

And so I'll tell you the quick story.

So I have a friend who, he runs a company called Pro Camps that does camps for pro athletes in all different sports and he was a college teammate of mine and I was sitting at the, at the dinner table with my wife and my kids at like maybe six o' clock that night.

Of game seven.

And my kids had, like, some posters set up and we were all gonna sit on the couch and watch game seven.

And my friend calls me at like six o', clock.

He's like, hey, man.

He goes, I got one ticket for the game tonight.

And I said to him, that's awesome, man.

I'm so glad you're getting to go, man.

It's gonna be.

It's gonna be incredible to, you know, to be down there and, you know, Indians, Cubs, one of these teams is going to break the drought and whatever.

He's like, no, man, for you.

And I'm like, you know, I'm looking around at my kids, I'm like, you know, they're.

They've been so excited to sit and watch the game, watch the game with me.

I'm like, can I really just ditch them and go to the game?

So I'm like, ah, you know, I'm like, I.

You know, I don't think.

I don't think I can go.

I think I just can just stay, you know, stay here with the kids.

And I hung up.

And they're like, who was that?

I'm like, oh, that was Greg.

He said he had one ticket for me.

And they're like, dad, dad, dad, you gotta go.

So literally, it's like an hour before the game, and the family loaded me up in the car, drove me down to the stadium, dropped me off, and then I had to get to my friend to get the ticket.

So in the plaza outside of what was then Jacob's Field, they had it like, security.

You can get to the back of the.

In the back of the ballpark, behind the bleachers.

You can go back there and it's just, you know, it's just a fence.

So normally you could just reach in and he could hand me the ticket and then I could go in.

But because that plaza was crazy filled with people, they had like a security wall that had pushed it back like 15ft away from the fence.

I couldn't get to my friend in order to physically grab the ticket because it wasn't, you know, it wasn't an electronic ticket.

He actually had a physical ticket that he had to hand me.

And so I had to go to, like, this security guard.

No, he can't go over there.

This one?

No.

This one?

No.

I just kept working my way down the line until eventually I found a security guard that let me walk through, like, the security barrier to grab the ticket and go in.

And then, I have to tell you, it was the strangest game that I've ever been to, because I would say that the stadium was probably.

If it wasn't 50, 50 Cubs fans and Indians fans, it was very close.

So no matter what, no matter what hap.

No matter what happened, somebody was going crazy.

So the stadium was loud the entire time.

And actually the.

The home run that the Cubs hit in the first inning, Dexter.

What was the guy's name who hit the home run?

The first for the Cubs.

Yes.

Fowler hit the home run.

And so I'm outside of the stadium at this point.

I didn't realize that it was equal.

Indians, Cubs fans.

So I'm like, man, the Indians must have just turned a double play or had some kind of like, sensational play in the field.

Not realizing that all the cheers were for the Fowler home run in the first inning because there were all those Cubs fans in the.

In the stadium.

It was just.

It was so loud for both teams.

It's the loudest stadium I've ever been to.

And at any one point, only half the people were making the noise.

It was just.

It was an incredible experience.

Obviously, I was disappointed that the Indians didn't win, but, man, just to be in the building for that game was.

I mean, it was incredible.

I'm sure it was like what it was.

For anybody who was a Dodgers or Toronto fan, the just being on the edge of your seat for that, for that game, it was.

It was incredible.

I was supposed to go to the game.

A good friend of mine that works for NBC in Cleveland, Nick Camino, is the sports anchor.

I was gonna go to the game with him.

I went to the ones in Wrigley series.

I was gonna go there, but I decided to fly to.

I was supposed to fly.

I flew to Vegas and watched it with my folks.

I watched.

But who are die hard cup fans.

So I surprised them and watched it with them.

Nice.

Very cool.

I'm sure they were very, very excited.

Again, I'm a big Cleveland fan.

Yeah, I think it's just.

Again, it's.

You know, baseball is a.

Baseball is a very fickle sport.

And you gotta.

You get hot.

You get hot at the right time.

And I feel like it's probably the least.

It's the least.

The best team doesn't always win in baseball.

Whereas I feel like in football and basketball, most times when it comes down to it, the best team ends up winning.

Baseball team gets hot pitching or their hitting goes.

Or what goes south.

And all of a sudden a team that's been dominant for an entire regular season is out before you can shake a stick at.

I would think baseball, to me would always be the hardest sport to bet, especially in the playoffs, because you just.

I feel like you have no idea what you're.

What you're even looking at half the time.

Look at bullpens.

When it comes to playoff baseball, who's got a better bullpen?

Yeah.

Now that.

Yeah.

Nowadays especially.

Right.

Because you're just.

You're just rolling guys out of the bullpen over and over and.

And over again.

For sure.

All right, college basketball.

Who's your team you're watching this year?

What team?

What team.

What team do you like in college basketball?

That's a floor.

I think.

I think the SEC is going to be not as good as last year.

I think Florida will be okay.

I think UConn is going to be a tough out this year.

I think Duke's not going to be the same team we saw last year, but I think they're still going to hang around.

But I think Utah.

UConn's going to be.

That I really think is going to be really, really good.

I'm trying to think of another sleeper.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Byu.

I mean, shoot, they were really good last year and they almost put up 80 plus points because the way they shoot the ball, they got pretty much the whole team coming back and stuff like that.

Who would have thought BYU could maybe make college football playoffs and maybe.

And the NCAA tournament.

So they could be.

It's very, very tough.

I was actually shocked at how well Arizona played.

Granted, Game one, it's.

I'm not gonna put too much stock into game one, but I think byuk, there's another team that's.

That.

That's a team that you.

You're not going to have a lot of transfer port people.

The people who may be different as they're coming back from their retreat or whatever they call it and stuff like that.

And they're much older.

Always an older team.

They're not.

They don't have that much youth on there because they have the way they do their programs up there.

But I would say those team UConn and BYU are going to be fun teams to watch all season.

Yeah.

This year BYU's got AJ Bansta, who's going to be probably one of the top three picks in the NBA draft with.

Along with Boozer's kid and then the kid, Darren Peterson.

Darren Peterson out of Kansas.

I think those are kind of the consensus three guys.

Although I just saw Caleb Wilson for North Carolina, who's a high school kid out of Georgia.

He had four dunks in the first four minutes before the first TV timeout of his debut against Central Arkansas.

He has a kid has bounce.

I mean, he just elevates off the floor super quick.

I'm going to be, I'm going to be anxious to watch him for the rest of the season, see how, see how it develops.

He, he's just an unbelievable, unbelievable athlete and a really good passer.

I'll be curious to see kind of how his, his outside game develops, ability to handle the ball and shoot it.

But man, he was, he was fun to watch.

I think he had seven dunks in that game.

It was just, it was just a dunk.

It was a dunk fest for him.

He was all over, all over that, Just, just attacking the rim.

So.

All right, Raphael, before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share for people how they can reach out to you.

Find out more about what you're doing, share your Twitter X handle, share website, anything else you want to get out there.

And after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah, you can find me on most social media outlets.

You can find me on X at BSI Doc Sports.

You can find me on Instagram, Rafael Esparza, Tick Tock at Rafael Sparza and Instagram at Rafael Sparza.

You can also find me five days a week on Amazon Prime, Netflix, YouTube, TV Roku coaching company.

I do a sports show with Jonathan Coachman, former Sports center anchor and WWE.

I do his sports show Monday through Friday, 10am Eastern Standard Time.

I'm the numbers guy.

So I usually talk a lot of betting numbers and ins and outs of what you, what you can do and what you can't do.

Stuff like that.

And anytime people have any kind of questions in any kind of sports or gambling is always find me on social media.

I love talking.

Stop.

I love helping people understand what I do.

Understand the game with the gambling line.

Understand what if it's going to move, if it's not going to move.

I love talking stop on social media.

So I would definitely look me up on all those social media.

Rafiel, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it and to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

All right, Rafael, good work, man.

Your first impression is everything when applying for a new coaching job.

A professional coaching portfolio is the tool that highlights your coaching achievements and philosophies and most of all helps separate you and your abilities.

From the other applicants.

The Coaching Portfolio Guide is an instructional membership based website that helps you develop a personalized portfolio.

Each section of the Portfolio Guide provides detailed instructions on how to organize your portfolio in a professional manner.

The guide also provides sample documents for each section of your portfolio that you can copy, modify and add to your personal portfolio.

As a Hoop Heads pod listener, you can get your Coaching Portfolio Guide for just $25.

Visit coachingportfolioguide.com hoop heads to learn more.

Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads.

Podcast presented by Head Start Basket.

It.