1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,329 But what about the other 80% of your customer base who just does not want a 2 00:00:03,329 --> 00:00:06,659 subscription or they have too many, or they've been burnt by a subscription. 3 00:00:06,839 --> 00:00:07,259 Mm-hmm. 4 00:00:07,769 --> 00:00:11,879 They are, you're, you need a strategy to be able to like, to optimize 5 00:00:11,879 --> 00:00:13,829 those customers and their experience. 6 00:00:20,198 --> 00:00:24,458 Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 7 00:00:24,758 --> 00:00:28,598 The E-Commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e-commerce. 8 00:00:28,898 --> 00:00:29,618 Wow. 9 00:00:29,798 --> 00:00:33,548 And to help us do just that today we are gonna be chatting 10 00:00:33,698 --> 00:00:36,908 with Ben Fisher from Rodeo. 11 00:00:37,238 --> 00:00:38,618 About subscriptions. 12 00:00:38,618 --> 00:00:40,988 Uh, subscriptions, that's a hard word to say. 13 00:00:40,988 --> 00:00:43,088 Apparently subscriptions that stand out. 14 00:00:43,088 --> 00:00:47,468 The nuances that separate great experiences from mediocre ones. 15 00:00:47,468 --> 00:00:48,578 That's an awesome title. 16 00:00:48,583 --> 00:00:51,938 Can I just say congratulations to the podcast title team? 17 00:00:52,328 --> 00:00:53,258 Uh, cuz that was awesome. 18 00:00:53,358 --> 00:00:57,248 Uh, but before Ben and I dive into our discussion, let me share, uh, 19 00:00:57,668 --> 00:01:01,628 Some podcast picks of previous episodes that I think you'll enjoy. 20 00:01:02,018 --> 00:01:05,648 Check out everything you need to know to take over with subscription 21 00:01:05,678 --> 00:01:07,218 e-commerce with Evan Padgett. 22 00:01:07,238 --> 00:01:08,768 Evan is such a cool dude. 23 00:01:09,068 --> 00:01:10,478 Uh, do check that one out. 24 00:01:10,538 --> 00:01:13,988 And also how to increase your customer retention, the ultimate guide. 25 00:01:14,283 --> 00:01:17,493 By Brandon, who is also another legend. 26 00:01:17,493 --> 00:01:18,993 So check both of those out. 27 00:01:18,993 --> 00:01:22,953 You can check out both my podcast picks, uh, and our entire podcast 28 00:01:22,953 --> 00:01:28,193 archive for that, uh, for free on our website, which is ecommercepodcast.net. 29 00:01:29,283 --> 00:01:33,303 Plus, if you there, sign up for the newsletter and we'll send you the links 30 00:01:33,303 --> 00:01:37,623 to the podcast picks, along with the notes and the links from today's show. 31 00:01:37,623 --> 00:01:40,923 With Ben, they all get delivered straight to your inbox at no cost to 32 00:01:40,928 --> 00:01:45,933 you automagically, every time we do an episode, which is pretty amazing. 33 00:01:45,933 --> 00:01:49,083 So do crack on and do that now. 34 00:01:49,083 --> 00:01:52,323 Are you struggling to grow your e-commerce business? 35 00:01:52,328 --> 00:01:56,793 Do you feel like you are constantly spinning your wheels trying to 36 00:01:56,793 --> 00:01:59,043 figure out what to focus on next? 37 00:01:59,043 --> 00:01:59,613 Well, you know what? 38 00:01:59,613 --> 00:02:03,543 I have been there and I know how frustrating it can be. 39 00:02:03,873 --> 00:02:09,403 That's why we're excited that e-commerce cohort sponsors the show. 40 00:02:09,763 --> 00:02:13,543 E-Commerce cohort helps e-commerce businesses like yours to deliver 41 00:02:13,543 --> 00:02:19,213 exceptional customer experiences that drive results and to help you get started. 42 00:02:19,813 --> 00:02:20,353 Oh yes. 43 00:02:20,353 --> 00:02:26,473 We're excited to announce a brand new free resource for you called E-Commerce Cycles. 44 00:02:26,773 --> 00:02:31,753 It's a mini course which walks you through a proven framework for building 45 00:02:31,753 --> 00:02:34,363 a successful e-commerce business. 46 00:02:34,453 --> 00:02:34,933 I. 47 00:02:35,148 --> 00:02:40,098 And the one, uh, that takes you through the specific steps that I use in my 48 00:02:40,128 --> 00:02:44,358 own e-commerce companies so you can see exactly how to put these concepts 49 00:02:44,363 --> 00:02:47,238 into practice in your own business. 50 00:02:47,268 --> 00:02:49,698 And the good news is, of course, it's like the podcast. 51 00:02:49,698 --> 00:02:50,988 It's completely free. 52 00:02:51,318 --> 00:02:52,098 Uh, yes it is. 53 00:02:52,103 --> 00:02:52,968 And you can access that. 54 00:02:53,308 --> 00:02:57,268 For free right now at ecommercecycles.com. 55 00:02:57,658 --> 00:02:58,048 That's right. 56 00:02:58,048 --> 00:02:59,858 Head over to ecommercecycles.com. 57 00:02:59,858 --> 00:03:01,138 Access this free training. 58 00:03:01,138 --> 00:03:05,278 Get started today and, uh, start delivering e-commerce Wow to 59 00:03:05,278 --> 00:03:09,348 your customers with the help of the amazing e-commerce cohort. 60 00:03:10,853 --> 00:03:12,053 Now let's talk about Ben. 61 00:03:12,473 --> 00:03:18,743 Ben started his entrepreneurial journey as a kid in Maine, and later worked at a tech 62 00:03:18,743 --> 00:03:21,173 startup during the first dot com boom. 63 00:03:21,293 --> 00:03:26,393 He co-founded CartHook, which is a checkout optimization platform 64 00:03:26,393 --> 00:03:33,288 for DTC e-commerce brands that has processed over one billion dollars. 65 00:03:33,288 --> 00:03:33,858 That's right. 66 00:03:33,858 --> 00:03:36,378 A billion dollars on behalf of merchants. 67 00:03:36,558 --> 00:03:39,498 And if you're not sure, that's a lot of money. 68 00:03:41,298 --> 00:03:45,828 He now runs Rodeo, a platform that offers personalization features to 69 00:03:45,828 --> 00:03:51,128 maximize customer retention and lifetime value for eight figure DTC brands that 70 00:03:51,318 --> 00:03:54,008 utilize subscription based models. 71 00:03:54,648 --> 00:03:56,328 So we're excited to have Ben on the show. 72 00:03:56,328 --> 00:03:57,288 Ben, welcome man. 73 00:03:57,288 --> 00:03:57,888 Great to have you. 74 00:03:57,888 --> 00:03:58,518 How are you doing? 75 00:03:59,888 --> 00:04:00,428 I'm doing great. 76 00:04:00,428 --> 00:04:01,238 Thanks for having me. 77 00:04:01,538 --> 00:04:02,108 And it's, uh, awesome. 78 00:04:02,318 --> 00:04:03,308 It's funny hearing your bio. 79 00:04:03,368 --> 00:04:03,788 You're like that. 80 00:04:03,788 --> 00:04:04,358 That's a mouthful. 81 00:04:06,698 --> 00:04:07,628 It's always funny, isn't it? 82 00:04:07,898 --> 00:04:08,288 Yeah. 83 00:04:08,293 --> 00:04:08,948 No, no, it's great. 84 00:04:08,953 --> 00:04:11,768 I, I, I always enjoy reading out people's bio. 85 00:04:11,768 --> 00:04:12,668 It's, it's great fun. 86 00:04:12,673 --> 00:04:14,558 So, whereabouts in the world are you, Ben? 87 00:04:15,668 --> 00:04:18,368 I live in New York City, but I'm actually at Shop Talk, 88 00:04:18,428 --> 00:04:19,928 uh, the e-commerce conference. 89 00:04:20,078 --> 00:04:21,518 So I'm in Vegas right now. 90 00:04:22,058 --> 00:04:22,388 Okay. 91 00:04:22,388 --> 00:04:23,258 Typically, I'm in New York. 92 00:04:23,738 --> 00:04:24,218 Okay. 93 00:04:24,218 --> 00:04:25,938 Hence the hat is the reason why NY. 94 00:04:26,108 --> 00:04:26,898 I didn't realize that. 95 00:04:27,038 --> 00:04:27,669 Yeah, yeah. 96 00:04:27,788 --> 00:04:28,148 Okay. 97 00:04:28,898 --> 00:04:31,658 Just like their logo, it's actually blasphemous. 98 00:04:34,663 --> 00:04:35,803 It is a pretty cool logo. 99 00:04:35,803 --> 00:04:39,613 The n y logo, for those of you listening to the show, which I know is 99.9% of 100 00:04:39,613 --> 00:04:43,033 people, uh, Ben is wearing a New York cap. 101 00:04:43,063 --> 00:04:43,993 Is it a New York? 102 00:04:44,023 --> 00:04:46,783 Is this a specific New York Yankee baseball team is That's right. 103 00:04:46,788 --> 00:04:47,563 The New York Yankees. 104 00:04:47,563 --> 00:04:47,623 Yeah. 105 00:04:47,683 --> 00:04:48,183 So, yeah. 106 00:04:48,533 --> 00:04:48,823 Yeah. 107 00:04:49,363 --> 00:04:50,954 Um, so are you a Yankees fan? 108 00:04:52,583 --> 00:04:55,613 I, I just like the logo, which is why it's blasphemous, right? 109 00:04:55,613 --> 00:04:56,573 I live in New York City. 110 00:04:56,573 --> 00:05:02,423 I've lived, I'm not a huge sports person, skateboarder, snowboarder. 111 00:05:03,608 --> 00:05:06,638 Okay, we should do another podcast on why skateboarding 112 00:05:06,638 --> 00:05:08,168 and snowboarding are not sports. 113 00:05:08,258 --> 00:05:08,768 Uh, maybe 114 00:05:10,418 --> 00:05:10,718 fine. 115 00:05:10,718 --> 00:05:11,348 They're sports. 116 00:05:11,678 --> 00:05:13,388 We're not, uh, not team sports. 117 00:05:13,718 --> 00:05:14,588 Yeah, no, fair play. 118 00:05:14,648 --> 00:05:15,098 Fair play. 119 00:05:15,098 --> 00:05:16,358 That sounds much more interesting though. 120 00:05:16,358 --> 00:05:16,748 I'm not gonna lie. 121 00:05:16,748 --> 00:05:20,558 I mean, I do like baseball, but snowboarding is much more interesting. 122 00:05:20,563 --> 00:05:21,579 Skateboarding not so much. 123 00:05:21,938 --> 00:05:25,508 That's the sure route for me to break a leg break an ankle or my elbow all at the 124 00:05:25,508 --> 00:05:27,428 same time in quite a spectacular fashion. 125 00:05:27,428 --> 00:05:28,928 I would've thought, oh my gosh. 126 00:05:30,098 --> 00:05:30,938 So Ben, listen. 127 00:05:31,928 --> 00:05:33,398 Your bio is pretty clear, right? 128 00:05:33,398 --> 00:05:36,788 You, you're fairly successful, um, as an entrepreneur. 129 00:05:36,788 --> 00:05:39,158 You've got a good background in tech, you've got a good background 130 00:05:39,158 --> 00:05:41,318 in startups, you co-founded CartHook. 131 00:05:41,918 --> 00:05:44,468 Um, and so you understand the importance, right, of this 132 00:05:44,468 --> 00:05:46,538 whole customer experience thing. 133 00:05:47,708 --> 00:05:49,298 So let's get straight into it. 134 00:05:49,298 --> 00:05:50,638 Let's, uh, jump in maybe. 135 00:05:50,948 --> 00:05:57,788 Have you got any examples of how this word nuance, which I love, uh, plays a role in 136 00:05:57,793 --> 00:06:00,818 creating a successful customer experience? 137 00:06:03,398 --> 00:06:04,178 Yeah, for sure. 138 00:06:04,178 --> 00:06:07,388 And I'll say like, uh, for, for context too, my background's 139 00:06:07,388 --> 00:06:09,159 actually in design, so Oh. 140 00:06:09,308 --> 00:06:12,038 Before like I was a designer and programmer, right? 141 00:06:12,038 --> 00:06:12,668 I still am. 142 00:06:12,788 --> 00:06:17,588 But um, I'd say a lot of the products and ways I've approached businesses 143 00:06:17,588 --> 00:06:20,838 have been from a design perspective and thinking around like user experience. 144 00:06:21,548 --> 00:06:23,378 And, uh, consumer experience. 145 00:06:23,378 --> 00:06:27,278 And so, um, and the reason that's relevant is that that ties into a lot 146 00:06:27,283 --> 00:06:30,938 around our philosophy at Rodeo and how we've gone about approaching some of the 147 00:06:30,943 --> 00:06:35,108 problems that e-commerce brands and, and actually frankly, their customers have. 148 00:06:35,113 --> 00:06:35,168 Yeah. 149 00:06:35,528 --> 00:06:39,698 Um, around, we'll say like around the experience of buying 150 00:06:39,703 --> 00:06:41,198 stuff, of replenishing stuff. 151 00:06:41,648 --> 00:06:45,398 Um, you know, you can throw AI and machine learning at stuff, or you can think about 152 00:06:45,398 --> 00:06:47,738 it from more of a design perspective, and obviously it's not either or. 153 00:06:47,898 --> 00:06:48,258 Mm-hmm. 154 00:06:48,338 --> 00:06:52,508 But I would say that oftentimes, we can overly complicate stuff by trying to 155 00:06:52,513 --> 00:06:55,838 program a solution as opposed to think through what's a great experience. 156 00:06:56,318 --> 00:07:00,173 Um, I think that's such a good, sorry to interrupt, but I, I want to 157 00:07:00,403 --> 00:07:04,178 label this a little bit because, um, there is so much talk about AI at 158 00:07:04,178 --> 00:07:06,848 the moment, which is great, and I'm playing on it like everybody else. 159 00:07:06,848 --> 00:07:06,908 Yeah. 160 00:07:06,913 --> 00:07:10,328 And last year everybody was talking about data and big data and mining data 161 00:07:10,328 --> 00:07:13,088 and all that sort of stuff, which is also wonderful, the blockchain useful. 162 00:07:13,988 --> 00:07:17,888 But fundamentally, I'm, I'm an old-fashioned guy and I. 163 00:07:18,698 --> 00:07:24,698 I, I, I feel like the, the common sense approach to design was drowned out a 164 00:07:24,698 --> 00:07:28,598 little bit because of the data talk and the AI talk, and actually mm-hmm. 165 00:07:28,838 --> 00:07:31,898 Finding a good design solution to a problem, you know, like an 166 00:07:31,898 --> 00:07:35,378 architect and architecture, uh, site architecture and all that sort of stuff. 167 00:07:35,378 --> 00:07:41,558 I, I still think is, is a wonderful art actually, and, uh, and almost a dying art. 168 00:07:41,588 --> 00:07:42,338 It feels. 169 00:07:44,018 --> 00:07:44,288 Yeah. 170 00:07:44,378 --> 00:07:45,428 No, I think you're. 171 00:07:46,008 --> 00:07:46,973 You're absolutely right. 172 00:07:47,003 --> 00:07:50,363 Uh, like going back to like, let's say like one of the core problems, 173 00:07:50,963 --> 00:07:55,193 uh, for e-commerce brands, and I'll focus on cpg, so like food 174 00:07:55,198 --> 00:07:57,173 and beverage, health and wellness. 175 00:07:57,173 --> 00:07:57,263 Mm-hmm. 176 00:07:57,593 --> 00:08:01,973 Uh, basically they, they're shelf stable products that are not like a medication 177 00:08:01,973 --> 00:08:04,793 where you take the same unit every single day so you can predict, oh, it's 178 00:08:04,793 --> 00:08:06,593 just 30 pills, so it's for 30 days. 179 00:08:06,658 --> 00:08:07,018 Mm-hmm. 180 00:08:07,103 --> 00:08:11,948 Like most products that you buy, um, again, within cpg it's, you know, the 181 00:08:11,948 --> 00:08:15,908 amount of coffee you consume or the amount of a food or beverage you consume 182 00:08:16,418 --> 00:08:18,098 will vary based off of your life. 183 00:08:18,368 --> 00:08:21,968 It'll vary based off of if you're home, if you're like, if you have 184 00:08:21,973 --> 00:08:26,438 friends over, if you're like, there's a bunch of variables, right? 185 00:08:26,438 --> 00:08:31,598 And so every single month, your consumption pace will vary, and the 186 00:08:31,598 --> 00:08:32,888 amount that it varies will depend. 187 00:08:32,893 --> 00:08:36,248 But by and large, it's like, You know, if you go to any, if you go to subscribe 188 00:08:36,248 --> 00:08:40,298 to any product online, it's, you know, the typical plans are every 30 days, 60 189 00:08:40,298 --> 00:08:41,828 days, or every month, every two months. 190 00:08:41,828 --> 00:08:46,268 And it's like how much thought's actually put into that A and b, even if it is, 191 00:08:46,358 --> 00:08:48,578 we'll call it the, like, optimal amount. 192 00:08:48,578 --> 00:08:52,598 How often do people, how often do, do every one of your customers 193 00:08:52,598 --> 00:08:54,998 actually consume at that pace? 194 00:08:55,028 --> 00:08:55,388 Yeah. 195 00:08:55,658 --> 00:09:00,218 Um, and it's a bit of a leading question because the, the answer is the number 196 00:09:00,218 --> 00:09:03,428 one reason people cancel subscriptions is they get too much product. 197 00:09:03,978 --> 00:09:05,658 Or they, run out. 198 00:09:06,098 --> 00:09:06,218 Yeah. 199 00:09:06,248 --> 00:09:11,498 So what's funny about it is, subscriptions are a great model for 200 00:09:11,503 --> 00:09:13,388 some customers and for some consumers. 201 00:09:13,393 --> 00:09:17,708 But because of that mismatch around like the pace of consumption and 202 00:09:18,448 --> 00:09:22,628 like, basically the, replenishment periods, it actively, actively 203 00:09:23,548 --> 00:09:26,978 results in people who like your product to cancel and not buy again. 204 00:09:27,458 --> 00:09:31,178 Um, simply because there's a mismatch between those periods. 205 00:09:31,183 --> 00:09:31,778 Like, yeah. 206 00:09:31,778 --> 00:09:32,648 I'll give you an example. 207 00:09:32,648 --> 00:09:39,023 I, uh, I received a family size of, uh, paper towels from uh, Amazon. 208 00:09:39,083 --> 00:09:44,183 I used Amazon subscribe and save last month, and I got the paper towels and I 209 00:09:44,183 --> 00:09:48,353 realized I still have a bunch of paper towels and not, not only that, I don't 210 00:09:48,358 --> 00:09:53,633 have shelf space, so I kid you not, I now have a freezer full of paper towels. 211 00:09:54,503 --> 00:09:57,473 I recorded it for my friends cuz I was like, I was like, this 212 00:09:57,473 --> 00:10:00,773 is the exact problem and it's hilarious that it happened to me. 213 00:10:01,358 --> 00:10:04,238 But like, if you think of your own life, like how often have you had 214 00:10:04,238 --> 00:10:05,228 that happen where it's like, mm-hmm. 215 00:10:05,498 --> 00:10:10,418 Crap, I forgot I had this on subscription, or man, I, I didn't need this. 216 00:10:10,423 --> 00:10:11,228 Or if we run out. 217 00:10:11,228 --> 00:10:16,748 So, you know, as a brand, um, and once you've acquired a customer who 218 00:10:16,748 --> 00:10:19,058 likes your product, like one of the most important things is how can 219 00:10:19,058 --> 00:10:21,068 you continue to serve them Yeah. 220 00:10:21,068 --> 00:10:22,358 And get them to buy more. 221 00:10:22,628 --> 00:10:25,898 And I think that, um, because subscriptions. 222 00:10:27,143 --> 00:10:31,313 In aggregate are a really powerful way to, we'll call it maximize lifetime value. 223 00:10:31,433 --> 00:10:31,523 Mm-hmm. 224 00:10:31,763 --> 00:10:34,763 It's really easy for brands to be like, we just need to push more and 225 00:10:34,763 --> 00:10:38,993 more customers into our subscription program because on like, on average, 226 00:10:38,993 --> 00:10:40,313 that's how you make more money. 227 00:10:40,793 --> 00:10:44,783 Um, the problem with that though is as I said, is, um, that 228 00:10:44,783 --> 00:10:46,703 problem gets worse with scale. 229 00:10:46,713 --> 00:10:49,463 Where as you have more and more customers, every one of your 230 00:10:49,468 --> 00:10:51,653 customers, you know, is different. 231 00:10:52,158 --> 00:10:52,278 Hmm. 232 00:10:52,358 --> 00:10:56,468 And so what we've found, like really smart brands have done and really effectively 233 00:10:56,468 --> 00:11:01,838 is pairing the right consumption strategy or sales strategy with, we'll 234 00:11:01,838 --> 00:11:03,188 call it the profile of that customer. 235 00:11:03,188 --> 00:11:06,308 For some people it is this, I'll get a subscription and have it 236 00:11:06,313 --> 00:11:09,338 renewed every month or every, every six weeks, and that's good. 237 00:11:09,338 --> 00:11:12,818 And I don't really care if I get too much because, you know, I'm happy 238 00:11:12,818 --> 00:11:14,228 having like a little bit too much. 239 00:11:14,378 --> 00:11:14,468 Mm-hmm. 240 00:11:14,708 --> 00:11:18,308 Other people, um, like if you, you know, maybe their consumption 241 00:11:18,338 --> 00:11:20,648 method is actually like, they'll spend more money by buying in bulk. 242 00:11:21,188 --> 00:11:23,768 Right, like they have a garage or they have like ample storage. 243 00:11:23,768 --> 00:11:24,848 They don't live in New York City. 244 00:11:25,838 --> 00:11:28,778 And for other people, you know, maybe it's somewhere in between. 245 00:11:28,778 --> 00:11:32,498 Like, so the way I solved this for myself before rodeo was I had a 246 00:11:32,498 --> 00:11:35,508 calendar reminder for all the things that I would buy on a frequent basis. 247 00:11:36,248 --> 00:11:39,148 And so every 30 days I'd get a calendar reminder asking, 248 00:11:39,258 --> 00:11:43,808 basically prompt me to like, do do I need more of like this coffee? 249 00:11:43,868 --> 00:11:45,578 And I had a link to the product page. 250 00:11:45,983 --> 00:11:51,083 And so we, the very first version of this, we, we recreated that for brands where, 251 00:11:51,353 --> 00:11:55,463 for, for the segment of customers who don't wanna have a subscription or are 252 00:11:55,468 --> 00:12:00,323 like on the way out, they can do what's effectively like, uh, a smart reminder. 253 00:12:00,323 --> 00:12:03,433 We call it on demand, where your card is on file. 254 00:12:04,053 --> 00:12:07,283 So you know the consumer all, they'll, what they'll do is they'll 255 00:12:07,283 --> 00:12:10,403 get this prompt every x number of days, like we'll call it every 30 256 00:12:10,403 --> 00:12:11,633 days, saying, are you running low? 257 00:12:11,633 --> 00:12:12,263 Do you need more? 258 00:12:12,568 --> 00:12:12,833 Mm-hmm. 259 00:12:13,193 --> 00:12:17,693 And they can reply yes and like make some tweaks and add additional products to it. 260 00:12:17,723 --> 00:12:21,383 Or they can, they can delay it and say, remind me in like a few days, 261 00:12:21,383 --> 00:12:23,513 like if they're not ready to buy more. 262 00:12:23,723 --> 00:12:28,403 And what that does though is it keeps the person, it gives the consumer more control 263 00:12:29,063 --> 00:12:34,073 and it, it basically through design, eliminates that concern of ever getting 264 00:12:34,073 --> 00:12:36,683 too much or, or running out, right? 265 00:12:36,743 --> 00:12:39,533 Simply by asking the person, how are you doing? 266 00:12:39,623 --> 00:12:41,693 Like, are we on track for you to need more? 267 00:12:42,173 --> 00:12:46,613 And so, you know, you can have, use AI all day long, but ultimately the, the only 268 00:12:46,613 --> 00:12:49,673 accurate way to do something like this is to ask the person, do you need more? 269 00:12:49,673 --> 00:12:49,733 Yeah. 270 00:12:49,913 --> 00:12:52,163 In a way that's not annoying and not intrusive. 271 00:12:53,423 --> 00:12:54,263 That's really clever. 272 00:12:54,263 --> 00:13:01,853 I like that in the sense that, um, I, I like you, have Amazon subscriptions. 273 00:13:01,853 --> 00:13:02,513 I have a tea. 274 00:13:02,513 --> 00:13:02,573 Yeah. 275 00:13:02,873 --> 00:13:05,303 Uh, which I subscribe from Amazon four. 276 00:13:05,843 --> 00:13:09,203 And I feel like I have to drink two cups of that tea every day just 277 00:13:09,203 --> 00:13:10,763 to keep up with the subscription. 278 00:13:10,763 --> 00:13:13,883 And if I fall behind, I'm gonna, and then I'm just like, oh, there's 279 00:13:13,888 --> 00:13:16,853 a faf of going on and canceling the subscription and all that sort of stuff. 280 00:13:16,853 --> 00:13:19,493 So, I've, and I guess I've never really thought about it. 281 00:13:19,493 --> 00:13:22,103 I've never gone to the extreme that you went to Ben in terms 282 00:13:22,103 --> 00:13:26,513 of setting appointments in my diary to ask me do I need tea? 283 00:13:26,518 --> 00:13:27,653 I don't know if I do. 284 00:13:27,653 --> 00:13:28,283 Yes, I do. 285 00:13:28,283 --> 00:13:29,543 That's, here's the link. 286 00:13:30,023 --> 00:13:33,023 Um, I, I, I like the fact that your brain works like that, uh, which 287 00:13:33,023 --> 00:13:35,543 led you to develop some software, which I think is quite clever. 288 00:13:36,073 --> 00:13:36,293 Um, 289 00:13:36,483 --> 00:13:39,503 well, one thing I'll just add there though, like for me it's 290 00:13:39,503 --> 00:13:40,463 like, set it and forget it. 291 00:13:40,468 --> 00:13:41,603 I don't want to think about it. 292 00:13:41,933 --> 00:13:44,183 And, and no, no consumer, no customer. 293 00:13:44,183 --> 00:13:47,768 You don't wanna be thinking about your tea, like, It's, you ha you're 294 00:13:47,768 --> 00:13:48,968 dealing with your life, right? 295 00:13:48,968 --> 00:13:52,178 Like, and so I think for everyone is figuring out like, what's the 296 00:13:52,178 --> 00:13:53,708 way that it's just convenient. 297 00:13:54,308 --> 00:13:54,548 Yeah. 298 00:13:54,548 --> 00:13:56,048 And that will be different for different people. 299 00:13:56,528 --> 00:13:56,888 Yeah. 300 00:13:56,998 --> 00:13:58,538 And I, and and that's true. 301 00:13:58,543 --> 00:13:59,918 And I, that's a good word, isn't it? 302 00:13:59,918 --> 00:14:00,968 It's convenience. 303 00:14:01,118 --> 00:14:04,118 Uh, what's the most convenient method for me as a consumer to get 304 00:14:04,118 --> 00:14:05,828 this product on a regular basis? 305 00:14:06,728 --> 00:14:11,738 Um, and I, I guess if I can tap into the answer to that question, 306 00:14:12,158 --> 00:14:15,458 I'm therefore maximizing the lifetime value of that client. 307 00:14:15,968 --> 00:14:18,998 Um, rather than assuming every client needs to be subscription, or every 308 00:14:18,998 --> 00:14:21,518 client needs to be a book buyer or every client, blah, blah, blah. 309 00:14:22,088 --> 00:14:22,298 Yep. 310 00:14:22,868 --> 00:14:23,588 That's really interesting. 311 00:14:23,588 --> 00:14:28,448 So you, you match convenience to the consumer, and I'm assuming, 312 00:14:28,958 --> 00:14:33,128 uh, Ben, uh, and correct me, uh, if I've got my assumptions wrong, 313 00:14:33,128 --> 00:14:34,898 which I often do, I'm not gonna lie. 314 00:14:35,288 --> 00:14:39,878 Um, your, your understanding client convenience by asking 315 00:14:39,878 --> 00:14:42,878 them, I guess, some well pointed questions at the point of checkout. 316 00:14:44,558 --> 00:14:48,668 So, I mean, that, that's actually, that's not what we do, but that is actually 317 00:14:48,668 --> 00:14:51,698 something I have seen like good brands do, which is they'll, they'll offer 318 00:14:51,698 --> 00:14:56,288 like a quiz of sorts to try to estimate what your replenishment period is like. 319 00:14:56,288 --> 00:14:57,638 Do you have a cup of coffee per day? 320 00:14:57,638 --> 00:14:58,268 Do you have two? 321 00:14:58,688 --> 00:14:58,778 Mm-hmm. 322 00:14:59,018 --> 00:15:02,258 Um, what we do is once someone's purchased, um, we 323 00:15:02,263 --> 00:15:03,228 check in with them, right? 324 00:15:03,288 --> 00:15:08,168 So typically it's, typically it does match the suggested like, uh, like interval. 325 00:15:08,168 --> 00:15:10,328 So let's say, let's say your typical. 326 00:15:11,453 --> 00:15:12,953 Subscriptions 30 days. 327 00:15:12,953 --> 00:15:13,013 Yeah. 328 00:15:13,343 --> 00:15:16,583 So on one hand you could have someone automatically get charged every 30 329 00:15:16,583 --> 00:15:20,663 days, and that's what we would call a, uh, standard normal subscription. 330 00:15:20,668 --> 00:15:22,193 Like that's what everyone's accustomed to. 331 00:15:22,703 --> 00:15:26,873 Um, what we do instead is leading up to that 30 days, let's say it's day 332 00:15:26,873 --> 00:15:31,613 27, they'll get an email or a text that says, are you ready for more? 333 00:15:31,853 --> 00:15:33,653 Like, do you need more? 334 00:15:33,653 --> 00:15:36,173 Do you need to be placed in like, uh, you're ready for more now? 335 00:15:36,653 --> 00:15:42,008 And they can either, Accept that and, have the order fulfilled, or they 336 00:15:42,008 --> 00:15:46,118 can snooze it and say, remind me in a week, remind me in like a few days. 337 00:15:46,148 --> 00:15:46,538 Right. 338 00:15:46,748 --> 00:15:51,758 And so again, the, the goal there being that, um, yeah, the person doesn't 339 00:15:51,758 --> 00:15:53,678 have to actively think, do I need more? 340 00:15:53,708 --> 00:15:55,238 It's more that I'm asking you. 341 00:15:55,718 --> 00:15:58,658 And then they can, they can, if it's too early, they can snooze it. 342 00:15:59,048 --> 00:16:01,748 Um, yeah, that's 343 00:16:02,078 --> 00:16:03,748 so you don't give them the option to cancel. 344 00:16:04,418 --> 00:16:07,148 The you are, you are focused on. 345 00:16:07,178 --> 00:16:10,298 Yes, I, well, the default is, I'm gonna send this out if I don't hear from 346 00:16:10,298 --> 00:16:16,688 you, but if you'd like to, you can snooze this, um, for, uh, and I guess 347 00:16:16,688 --> 00:16:19,868 they choose like three days, seven days or, or whatever it's gonna be. 348 00:16:19,868 --> 00:16:20,468 Is that right? 349 00:16:20,473 --> 00:16:20,598 Right. 350 00:16:20,768 --> 00:16:21,549 But you're not really saying, 351 00:16:21,578 --> 00:16:25,538 so we won't, we don't automatically, uh, fulfill it. 352 00:16:25,538 --> 00:16:25,778 Right? 353 00:16:25,778 --> 00:16:27,038 Because it's an opt-in. 354 00:16:27,383 --> 00:16:28,133 So Right. 355 00:16:28,133 --> 00:16:32,303 The, with that mechanism on demand, the customer, if they don't do 356 00:16:32,303 --> 00:16:33,923 anything, they won't get the product. 357 00:16:34,013 --> 00:16:34,373 Right. 358 00:16:34,403 --> 00:16:34,613 Okay. 359 00:16:34,613 --> 00:16:37,613 Because again, part of this is providing them control, so mm-hmm. 360 00:16:38,033 --> 00:16:40,733 You can think of it as there's a normal subscription where if they did nothing, 361 00:16:40,943 --> 00:16:43,523 they still get notification that their subscription's about to renew. 362 00:16:43,643 --> 00:16:43,733 Mm-hmm. 363 00:16:44,063 --> 00:16:45,843 And if you do nothing, your subscription renews. 364 00:16:46,133 --> 00:16:48,083 That's how I ended up with way too many paper towels. 365 00:16:48,083 --> 00:16:48,323 Right. 366 00:16:48,323 --> 00:16:49,873 Like that is a normal subscription. 367 00:16:50,073 --> 00:16:50,313 Yep. 368 00:16:50,473 --> 00:16:51,803 Um, and we do do that. 369 00:16:52,118 --> 00:16:56,318 But that, but on demand, which is that in between buying all a cart and 370 00:16:56,438 --> 00:17:01,478 buying on a subscription is where you explicitly need to say, yes, I'm ready. 371 00:17:01,708 --> 00:17:01,998 Okay. 372 00:17:02,048 --> 00:17:03,728 For you to be charged in, ordered. 373 00:17:03,968 --> 00:17:08,018 And a part of that too is a lot more customers like, you know, the 374 00:17:08,023 --> 00:17:11,528 percentage of your customer base that will subscribe let's just, is. 375 00:17:12,068 --> 00:17:12,908 Relatively small. 376 00:17:12,908 --> 00:17:16,238 Let's say it's 20%, and you know, by and large, those are 377 00:17:16,238 --> 00:17:17,648 really valuable customers. 378 00:17:17,653 --> 00:17:17,778 Mm-hmm. 379 00:17:17,858 --> 00:17:18,698 Once you subscribe. 380 00:17:18,698 --> 00:17:21,218 But as we've talked about, there's a lot of reason good 381 00:17:21,218 --> 00:17:23,258 customers cancel subscriptions. 382 00:17:23,678 --> 00:17:27,008 But what about the other 80% of your customer base who just does not want a 383 00:17:27,008 --> 00:17:30,338 subscription or they have too many, or they've been burnt by a subscription. 384 00:17:30,518 --> 00:17:30,938 Mm-hmm. 385 00:17:31,448 --> 00:17:35,558 They are, you're, you need a strategy to be able to like, to optimize 386 00:17:35,558 --> 00:17:37,508 those customers and their experience. 387 00:17:37,898 --> 00:17:38,978 Um, and so on. 388 00:17:38,978 --> 00:17:41,108 Demand is one way of doing it beyond just. 389 00:17:41,453 --> 00:17:43,043 Sending them more marketing messages. 390 00:17:43,073 --> 00:17:43,403 Right? 391 00:17:43,433 --> 00:17:46,913 Because if someone's buying from you, you know, the only other way that people 392 00:17:46,913 --> 00:17:51,593 buy is either in reaction to like an a marketing email they get from you or like 393 00:17:51,598 --> 00:17:53,003 you, if you remember, you need more tea. 394 00:17:53,363 --> 00:17:53,573 Yeah. 395 00:17:53,603 --> 00:17:57,443 So this is still a sort of pavon, pavlonian, pavlonian, 396 00:17:57,903 --> 00:17:59,323 uh, um, it's a great word. 397 00:18:01,623 --> 00:18:03,923 Uh, uh, I would say pavlonian response. 398 00:18:03,923 --> 00:18:05,513 I was like, pavlonian interaction. 399 00:18:05,513 --> 00:18:07,913 Where it's like, yeah, okay, I'm gonna check in with you. 400 00:18:08,183 --> 00:18:09,893 You don't need to worry about thinking about this. 401 00:18:10,298 --> 00:18:13,928 And you know, you just think about it when I ask you, and then, you 402 00:18:13,928 --> 00:18:14,888 know, you're in full control. 403 00:18:14,888 --> 00:18:17,948 So people, more people are going to sign, opt into that. 404 00:18:18,368 --> 00:18:18,638 Yeah. 405 00:18:18,638 --> 00:18:20,348 Than, um, than not. 406 00:18:21,908 --> 00:18:23,228 That's a really interesting idea. 407 00:18:23,228 --> 00:18:28,988 So you, if I'm going to your website, then I'm faced with different options 408 00:18:29,128 --> 00:18:31,148 and, and, and walk me through this, Ben. 409 00:18:31,148 --> 00:18:33,998 Cause I'm sorry to get in the nitty gritty, but I'm, I'm kind of, I just 410 00:18:33,998 --> 00:18:35,468 wanna get my head around how it all works. 411 00:18:36,383 --> 00:18:37,553 So I've gone to your website. 412 00:18:37,883 --> 00:18:41,363 I've got the standard subscription, uh, option, which says, I want you 413 00:18:41,363 --> 00:18:43,343 to send me this coffee every 60 days. 414 00:18:43,343 --> 00:18:43,433 Mm-hmm. 415 00:18:43,433 --> 00:18:44,093 Or whatever it is. 416 00:18:44,813 --> 00:18:48,353 Um, and that's one path I can go down. 417 00:18:48,383 --> 00:18:51,113 Another path I can go down is I just wanna buy a bag of coffee. 418 00:18:51,113 --> 00:18:53,574 Send me the coffee, leave me alone, and if I want more, I'll come back. 419 00:18:53,579 --> 00:18:53,783 Mm-hmm. 420 00:18:54,403 --> 00:18:59,993 And then the third option is, um, is this sort of on demand feature that 421 00:18:59,993 --> 00:19:03,713 you talk about, where it's like, listen, uh, tell us a timeframe. 422 00:19:04,073 --> 00:19:07,613 Uh, and we'll remind you within that timeframe, and you 423 00:19:07,613 --> 00:19:08,543 can let us know if you want. 424 00:19:08,543 --> 00:19:10,553 We'll, remember, your card makes it easy to order. 425 00:19:11,093 --> 00:19:14,003 Um, and it's as simple as a saying, yes, I do. 426 00:19:14,003 --> 00:19:15,983 And if you do great, and if you don't, don't worry. 427 00:19:15,983 --> 00:19:16,733 We don't charge you. 428 00:19:16,973 --> 00:19:18,683 Um, it mm-hmm. 429 00:19:18,923 --> 00:19:22,773 Is that, have I understood that right, or are you merging those 430 00:19:23,153 --> 00:19:25,223 together somehow in a creative way? 431 00:19:26,558 --> 00:19:30,998 No, I mean, I think, I mean, at the basic level you described it, right? 432 00:19:30,998 --> 00:19:31,478 I think so. 433 00:19:31,478 --> 00:19:34,718 The way that most brands that we've worked with who've introduced this, 434 00:19:34,718 --> 00:19:39,488 they've done it through actually, um, call it like the, the, the exit flows. 435 00:19:39,488 --> 00:19:40,958 So they introduce on demand. 436 00:19:41,138 --> 00:19:45,548 When someone's already expressing that, they're like, they wanna 437 00:19:45,548 --> 00:19:47,048 pause or cancel their subscription. 438 00:19:47,378 --> 00:19:47,798 Right. 439 00:19:48,068 --> 00:19:53,018 So what you're doing is it's effectively a way to retain that customer who, for the 440 00:19:53,018 --> 00:19:56,888 re, for the, for the very, for the, for the reason that they had spent too much, 441 00:19:57,218 --> 00:19:59,138 um, or they received too much rather. 442 00:19:59,708 --> 00:20:03,638 Um, that's when, when some brands will present on demand, um, you can 443 00:20:03,638 --> 00:20:05,288 also present in, in marketing, right? 444 00:20:05,288 --> 00:20:05,378 Mm-hmm. 445 00:20:05,378 --> 00:20:08,948 So a lot of what we even do with rodeo is help you segment your customers because 446 00:20:09,308 --> 00:20:12,308 you know what you wanna be looking at is who are your repeat buyers who buy, 447 00:20:12,578 --> 00:20:16,848 um, cuz there's a lot of people who will buy like, almost like clockwork. 448 00:20:17,498 --> 00:20:19,588 But they'll buy manually every month or mm-hmm. 449 00:20:19,588 --> 00:20:21,068 Or whatever that cadence is. 450 00:20:21,068 --> 00:20:24,608 And so those are the type of people too, where it's like you're effectively helping 451 00:20:24,608 --> 00:20:28,268 them do what they were already doing, and you're making it more convenient. 452 00:20:28,658 --> 00:20:32,348 And what's great is you're, you're eliminating 95% of the checkout 453 00:20:32,348 --> 00:20:35,318 friction because their cards held on file as opposed to them having 454 00:20:35,323 --> 00:20:36,189 to go to the checkout every time. 455 00:20:37,058 --> 00:20:39,908 Um, and you're still able to do, like, upsells and cross cells. 456 00:20:39,908 --> 00:20:42,788 And so, um, the. 457 00:20:43,838 --> 00:20:47,588 The way that you, the way that a brand will introduce or push on demand? 458 00:20:47,588 --> 00:20:55,118 Like, I wouldn't personally, I think the, you know, the, you 459 00:20:55,118 --> 00:20:57,728 don't wanna give someone too many options too quickly, right? 460 00:20:57,728 --> 00:20:57,938 Yeah. 461 00:20:58,028 --> 00:21:03,338 On demand is really a way that, let's say someone's buying at a one time 462 00:21:03,338 --> 00:21:06,368 interval, like they're buying a la carte on demand would be a great. 463 00:21:07,268 --> 00:21:08,318 Upsell, so to speak. 464 00:21:08,318 --> 00:21:08,408 Mm-hmm. 465 00:21:08,438 --> 00:21:11,048 Where it's basically just a, it's a convenience answer, right? 466 00:21:11,048 --> 00:21:13,178 Where it's like, Hey, we'll, we'll, we'll remind you. 467 00:21:13,628 --> 00:21:16,628 Or if someone has a subscription, and let's say they, they, they're 468 00:21:16,688 --> 00:21:17,858 doing two different behaviors. 469 00:21:17,978 --> 00:21:21,338 One behavior might be that they're, they're consistently skipping. 470 00:21:22,238 --> 00:21:25,548 So most brands actually don't even know how often people skip. 471 00:21:26,348 --> 00:21:28,568 Um, it's, you ask a brand. 472 00:21:29,378 --> 00:21:29,828 Yeah. 473 00:21:29,888 --> 00:21:30,608 Well, and a lot. 474 00:21:30,608 --> 00:21:34,598 And what's funny though, when I talk to a lot of brands, I ask them, so you say 475 00:21:34,598 --> 00:21:36,128 you have a hundred thousand subscribers. 476 00:21:36,683 --> 00:21:40,533 How many of those people actually buy every month? 477 00:21:40,773 --> 00:21:43,673 as opposed to they skip or they reschedule. 478 00:21:43,943 --> 00:21:45,983 And most brands can't tell you that. 479 00:21:46,103 --> 00:21:48,693 I mean, they might know their cohort analysis, like their retention. 480 00:21:49,093 --> 00:21:53,453 But what they don't know in both the aggregate level and as well as at the 481 00:21:53,458 --> 00:21:56,393 individual level is like, who are the people who are consistently skipping 482 00:21:56,393 --> 00:21:57,653 and how can we serve them better? 483 00:21:58,253 --> 00:21:58,493 Right. 484 00:21:58,493 --> 00:22:01,763 Because if they're consistently skipping, they're le there's something about 485 00:22:01,763 --> 00:22:04,223 that experience that is putting them. 486 00:22:04,733 --> 00:22:06,803 I mean, it just looks like they are on their way out. 487 00:22:07,103 --> 00:22:07,193 Mm-hmm. 488 00:22:07,433 --> 00:22:14,993 And so if you can act proactively, um, I'll say proactively approach 489 00:22:15,503 --> 00:22:19,313 those customers who are behaving as though they're likely to cancel, 490 00:22:19,318 --> 00:22:22,704 this is a great way to get them into a program that is better suited for 491 00:22:23,253 --> 00:22:25,043 like, for their consumption style. 492 00:22:25,103 --> 00:22:25,163 Yeah. 493 00:22:25,263 --> 00:22:25,423 Yeah. 494 00:22:25,553 --> 00:22:28,793 Um, and then the other thing too is that if someone's canceling their 495 00:22:28,793 --> 00:22:32,663 subscription, The, you know, the exit survey is one of the, one of them 496 00:22:32,663 --> 00:22:34,643 is like, what's the reason, right? 497 00:22:34,673 --> 00:22:34,793 Yeah. 498 00:22:34,853 --> 00:22:38,693 And I receive too much product, too much, like, uh, you know, too expensive. 499 00:22:38,693 --> 00:22:43,043 Those are all the different reasons you can offer solutions 500 00:22:43,043 --> 00:22:44,903 based off of what that reason is. 501 00:22:44,908 --> 00:22:47,994 So if it's too expensive, we do the ability for you to offer that 502 00:22:47,999 --> 00:22:49,883 segment of customer like a discount. 503 00:22:50,273 --> 00:22:50,573 Yeah. 504 00:22:50,573 --> 00:22:54,533 Um, but for the con, but again for the context of on context of on demand, if 505 00:22:54,533 --> 00:22:58,253 they picked, um, that they have too much product, that's where you can, instead 506 00:22:58,253 --> 00:23:02,183 of canceling, what you can suggest is, Hey, you should switch into on demand. 507 00:23:02,183 --> 00:23:04,253 And these, you know, here are the benefits. 508 00:23:05,243 --> 00:23:06,503 Yeah, I like that. 509 00:23:06,593 --> 00:23:06,973 That's really cool. 510 00:23:07,033 --> 00:23:10,013 So you mentioned, cuz one of the, I mean, you sort of preempted my 511 00:23:10,013 --> 00:23:11,533 question, uh, but I'm not gonna lie. 512 00:23:12,033 --> 00:23:19,403 Um, but it, I, I'm kind of thinking one of the things that, um, That 513 00:23:19,403 --> 00:23:23,243 I was pondering was with the, with the on demand system, is there space 514 00:23:23,243 --> 00:23:24,893 for the cross cells and the upsells? 515 00:23:24,923 --> 00:23:27,353 Because that's one of the downsides I think with subscription is 516 00:23:27,353 --> 00:23:30,323 actually, it's pretty, it's pretty fixed what they're buying and it's 517 00:23:30,323 --> 00:23:32,063 on autopilot until they change it. 518 00:23:32,843 --> 00:23:37,133 Um, so I'm always getting the same type of tea and I'm never on the 519 00:23:37,133 --> 00:23:39,683 site going, oh, quite fancy a change. 520 00:23:39,683 --> 00:23:41,543 Or I might want to try that flavor or whatever. 521 00:23:41,543 --> 00:23:41,693 Right. 522 00:23:41,813 --> 00:23:46,058 Because the whole thing's on automatic, sure they get my money, but, um, I'm gonna 523 00:23:46,058 --> 00:23:47,558 get bored with that flavor at some point. 524 00:23:47,558 --> 00:23:47,858 Right. 525 00:23:47,858 --> 00:23:53,678 So, um, how, how, how do you make cross cells and upsells then? 526 00:23:53,683 --> 00:23:58,208 Because this is now starting, this appeals in a, to those maybe that are thinking, 527 00:23:58,208 --> 00:23:59,438 how do I do that with subscription? 528 00:23:59,468 --> 00:24:02,408 The on demand thing, I think gives you this opportunity by the sounds of it. 529 00:24:02,408 --> 00:24:03,898 So how does that, how does that work? 530 00:24:06,023 --> 00:24:08,183 Yeah, so you could think of it as basically it's 531 00:24:08,183 --> 00:24:10,013 pre-building your cart, right? 532 00:24:10,013 --> 00:24:13,643 So it has a cart on file so that the, whatever you buy, the customer doesn't 533 00:24:13,643 --> 00:24:15,173 have to reenter their payment information. 534 00:24:15,593 --> 00:24:18,983 It already, you know, looks at your default shipping address. 535 00:24:19,643 --> 00:24:22,253 Um, so effectively when you get this communication around, 536 00:24:22,253 --> 00:24:23,393 Hey, are you ready for more? 537 00:24:23,973 --> 00:24:27,533 Uh, and you click a link, it brings you to a prebuilt cart. 538 00:24:28,113 --> 00:24:31,228 Um, within, within, uh, a portal mm-hmm. 539 00:24:31,598 --> 00:24:35,648 Um, that shows the product that you most re basically the product or product that 540 00:24:35,648 --> 00:24:40,568 you most recently had been purchasing, but there's also suggested products. 541 00:24:40,748 --> 00:24:42,698 So that's where your upsells and cross sells are. 542 00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:42,878 Right. 543 00:24:43,188 --> 00:24:43,768 And obvi. 544 00:24:43,808 --> 00:24:47,128 And yes, you can swap out, you can, you can modify your cart before you 545 00:24:47,128 --> 00:24:48,818 can click the button to confirm. 546 00:24:49,118 --> 00:24:49,538 Right. 547 00:24:49,838 --> 00:24:53,318 And so that also is where you can change the shipping address 548 00:24:53,318 --> 00:24:54,488 if for some reason you need to. 549 00:24:54,848 --> 00:24:58,838 I know we're getting into the details there, but, um, Um, we do do a similar 550 00:24:58,838 --> 00:25:05,618 thing though with normal subscriptions where, um, if, if a person has a normal, 551 00:25:05,623 --> 00:25:10,358 or if a consumers subscribed to, has a normal subscription three days, uh, ahead 552 00:25:10,363 --> 00:25:14,408 of the subscription renewing it does say, Hey, we're, you know, your subscription's 553 00:25:14,408 --> 00:25:15,818 about to renew, here's some product. 554 00:25:15,818 --> 00:25:18,578 You still have time to add these products to your upcoming order. 555 00:25:18,583 --> 00:25:19,508 Yeah, yeah. 556 00:25:19,988 --> 00:25:23,078 So you do still have the ability to do like upsells and cross sells. 557 00:25:23,408 --> 00:25:27,998 Um, But yeah, I mean, your exact use case is a great one, which is, 558 00:25:27,998 --> 00:25:31,478 well, maybe I want something slightly different cuz I'm bored of the same tea. 559 00:25:31,868 --> 00:25:31,958 Mm-hmm. 560 00:25:32,858 --> 00:25:35,018 Yeah, no, it, it, it is interesting that you can do that. 561 00:25:35,018 --> 00:25:35,498 I like that. 562 00:25:35,498 --> 00:25:39,218 This, I'm just, I'm furiously writing notes, Ben is what I'm doing, you 563 00:25:39,218 --> 00:25:42,759 know, to, um, to, to get my head around how all of this works. 564 00:25:43,028 --> 00:25:44,108 I find it fascinating. 565 00:25:44,108 --> 00:25:44,528 So. 566 00:25:45,593 --> 00:25:50,423 The on demand email then, um, that you're sending out to the customer, 567 00:25:50,423 --> 00:25:53,963 you're notifying the customer that, uh, at a predetermined timeframe. 568 00:25:54,233 --> 00:25:56,213 Um, listen, would you like these products? 569 00:25:56,218 --> 00:25:58,103 And they click either yes or snooze. 570 00:25:58,253 --> 00:25:59,308 Um, Mm-hmm. 571 00:25:59,528 --> 00:26:04,208 They click yes, they go to the cart page, which has got the products pre-filled. 572 00:26:04,688 --> 00:26:07,088 Um, they've got their shipping address pre-filled. 573 00:26:07,088 --> 00:26:08,978 You've got their credit card details on file. 574 00:26:08,978 --> 00:26:10,598 There's a few upsells and cross sells. 575 00:26:11,138 --> 00:26:14,408 So it's sort of the, the one click cart thing is, or the click 576 00:26:14,408 --> 00:26:16,958 through cart thing where you can click that your cart's pre-built. 577 00:26:16,963 --> 00:26:19,418 I mean, it makes shopping super, super easy. 578 00:26:20,018 --> 00:26:20,588 Thank you, Jesus. 579 00:26:20,728 --> 00:26:22,958 Let me just hit this button and we've gone, right? 580 00:26:22,988 --> 00:26:23,228 Yeah. 581 00:26:23,588 --> 00:26:24,128 Um. 582 00:26:27,008 --> 00:26:30,188 How does then the snooze function work? 583 00:26:30,248 --> 00:26:35,018 So let's say I want to, I, I, I look at that and I go, no snooze. 584 00:26:35,588 --> 00:26:41,228 So do you remind me in like seven days to, to do you send me the same email in 585 00:26:41,228 --> 00:26:44,078 seven days and I get exactly the same options, I guess is what I'm asking? 586 00:26:44,708 --> 00:26:44,998 Yeah. 587 00:26:44,998 --> 00:26:48,848 So we prefill it with some, basically some suggested dates, like snooze it three 588 00:26:48,848 --> 00:26:50,678 days, snooze it one day, snooze it a week. 589 00:26:51,038 --> 00:26:54,158 Or there's an like a link to go other where you can actually go 590 00:26:54,158 --> 00:26:57,038 in and you can select the date that you wanna be reminded. 591 00:26:57,368 --> 00:26:57,788 Right? 592 00:26:58,058 --> 00:27:03,098 So as with most things, it's like we have like the sort of suggested snooze 593 00:27:03,158 --> 00:27:07,388 periods, which by and large, 80% of the time, people will just pick one of those. 594 00:27:07,508 --> 00:27:07,568 Yeah. 595 00:27:07,868 --> 00:27:12,038 Um, or you, if you want to go in and explicitly pick what the 596 00:27:12,038 --> 00:27:13,358 data is, you can do that too. 597 00:27:14,648 --> 00:27:18,638 So what's the mo I'm, I'm just generally, uh, in, in my, in my 598 00:27:18,638 --> 00:27:21,458 data questions here, so apologies. 599 00:27:21,463 --> 00:27:26,228 But what's the, what's the typical to snooze timeframe? 600 00:27:26,233 --> 00:27:28,238 How long do people typically snooze for? 601 00:27:30,398 --> 00:27:33,699 Um, I mean, it, it varies partially based off the product, right? 602 00:27:33,788 --> 00:27:34,208 Mm-hmm. 603 00:27:34,898 --> 00:27:39,248 Um, I would say the, the typical that I, that I've seen 604 00:27:39,248 --> 00:27:40,988 is around three to five days. 605 00:27:41,558 --> 00:27:46,298 Um, which, when you think of, when I think of my own life, like how when 606 00:27:46,298 --> 00:27:49,178 I re paper towels was an exception, I probably already had like three 607 00:27:49,178 --> 00:27:50,018 months worth of paper towels. 608 00:27:50,018 --> 00:27:53,018 Well, um, but remind me in 2026. 609 00:27:53,018 --> 00:27:53,198 Yeah. 610 00:27:53,708 --> 00:27:56,018 Right, exactly. 611 00:27:56,288 --> 00:27:59,798 Um, but no, it typically around. 612 00:28:00,728 --> 00:28:02,303 Probably somewhere around a week. 613 00:28:02,303 --> 00:28:05,993 Cause again, if you think about like how a person's consumption will vary, 614 00:28:05,993 --> 00:28:07,883 it's probably gonna vary about a week. 615 00:28:08,273 --> 00:28:08,363 Mm-hmm. 616 00:28:08,603 --> 00:28:10,563 Um, obviously that it depends, but Yeah. 617 00:28:10,563 --> 00:28:10,883 Yeah, yeah. 618 00:28:10,943 --> 00:28:12,893 Um, yeah. 619 00:28:12,893 --> 00:28:13,653 About that sort of time. 620 00:28:13,673 --> 00:28:14,213 That's interesting. 621 00:28:14,483 --> 00:28:18,403 And how many people, so you send out a thousand emails, how many people 622 00:28:18,773 --> 00:28:22,763 would you expect to click the yes button versus the snooze button? 623 00:28:24,873 --> 00:28:25,813 That's a good question. 624 00:28:26,473 --> 00:28:35,753 Um, I don't actually have those numbers off the top of my head. 625 00:28:36,353 --> 00:28:39,323 Um, typically what we're looking at is what's the, you know, 626 00:28:39,433 --> 00:28:40,613 the, the fulfillment rate. 627 00:28:41,063 --> 00:28:46,373 Um, I'd say that, yeah, I'd have to get back to you on that. 628 00:28:46,778 --> 00:28:48,938 Well, okay, we'll put it in the show notes. 629 00:28:48,998 --> 00:28:51,278 Uh, let me know and we'll put, it's a good reason for people to 630 00:28:51,278 --> 00:28:53,588 go and get the show notes to find out the answer to that question. 631 00:28:53,618 --> 00:28:56,408 Yeah, because I'm just kind of curious, you know, it's like if I'm sending 632 00:28:56,408 --> 00:28:58,628 out a thousand emails, how many people, how many of those thousand 633 00:28:58,628 --> 00:29:01,868 people will click the yes, I want the order button and yes, uh, no. 634 00:29:01,868 --> 00:29:02,528 Snooze it. 635 00:29:02,798 --> 00:29:05,048 And then how many people just forget to respond or reply 636 00:29:05,053 --> 00:29:05,628 and then don't get the order. 637 00:29:05,948 --> 00:29:08,288 So I suppose that's a good follow up question. 638 00:29:08,288 --> 00:29:11,618 What do you do with the people that don't make, don't choose either option 639 00:29:11,618 --> 00:29:14,408 in your, in your on demand system there? 640 00:29:15,293 --> 00:29:15,653 Right. 641 00:29:16,043 --> 00:29:20,033 Well, again, the, the intent there is not to be a pain, right. 642 00:29:20,183 --> 00:29:21,893 It's intended to be a convenience. 643 00:29:21,923 --> 00:29:22,013 Mm-hmm. 644 00:29:22,253 --> 00:29:28,133 And so, you know, part of the appeal of something like on demand is that, um, 645 00:29:30,653 --> 00:29:35,913 that it's not gonna automatically charge you and it's not going to be, um, that 646 00:29:36,173 --> 00:29:37,553 it gives the consumer more control. 647 00:29:37,553 --> 00:29:40,493 So if they, if they ignore the email, what you can do is you can, you can 648 00:29:40,643 --> 00:29:42,593 create your own additional follow ups. 649 00:29:43,043 --> 00:29:46,403 So if you want to, like, if they haven't done any, any action mm-hmm. 650 00:29:46,738 --> 00:29:50,033 Um, you as the merchant have control of being able to like, all 651 00:29:50,033 --> 00:29:51,263 right, well, maybe two days later. 652 00:29:51,683 --> 00:29:54,413 Um, sending additional one being, Hey, just wanna make sure 653 00:29:54,413 --> 00:29:57,053 that you absolutely don't need, don't need a refill this month. 654 00:29:57,053 --> 00:29:57,263 Mm-hmm. 655 00:29:57,303 --> 00:29:58,283 Or, or, yeah. 656 00:29:58,433 --> 00:29:58,913 Month. 657 00:29:59,303 --> 00:30:00,903 Um, yeah. 658 00:30:01,163 --> 00:30:06,833 But the, so it would behave, it behaves just like a, like a drip campaign. 659 00:30:06,893 --> 00:30:07,073 Yeah. 660 00:30:07,078 --> 00:30:07,103 Yeah. 661 00:30:07,253 --> 00:30:10,583 Um, but again, the intent there is not to just inundate someone with, 662 00:30:11,033 --> 00:30:15,868 uh, Check-ins, because ultimately that is, you want, it's about convenience. 663 00:30:16,118 --> 00:30:16,178 Yeah. 664 00:30:16,478 --> 00:30:19,598 Um, but you do wanna make sure that sometimes some people miss emails and 665 00:30:19,598 --> 00:30:23,228 so it's not a, it's, it's not just that you should just send them to a once, 666 00:30:23,498 --> 00:30:24,909 um, and assume that they don't want it. 667 00:30:24,914 --> 00:30:24,948 Yeah. 668 00:30:24,953 --> 00:30:26,678 It's like they might just not, they might be busy. 669 00:30:27,458 --> 00:30:27,668 Yeah. 670 00:30:27,668 --> 00:30:28,328 No, that's fair play. 671 00:30:28,418 --> 00:30:29,858 You can also do it through SMS too. 672 00:30:30,338 --> 00:30:30,638 Hmm. 673 00:30:31,808 --> 00:30:37,628 Do you do Yeah, I, I, I, I get what you're saying because I've found, I mean, having 674 00:30:37,628 --> 00:30:42,878 done this a, a fair few years now, Um, that sometimes you have to, our, our 675 00:30:42,878 --> 00:30:46,898 magic number seems to be around three, so sometimes people miss the first email. 676 00:30:46,898 --> 00:30:48,218 Sometimes people miss the second email. 677 00:30:48,218 --> 00:30:48,418 Mm-hmm. 678 00:30:48,498 --> 00:30:51,278 By the time the third email comes along, we're like, this is the last email that 679 00:30:51,278 --> 00:30:53,468 we're gonna send you in relation to this. 680 00:30:53,498 --> 00:30:53,588 Mm-hmm. 681 00:30:53,918 --> 00:30:57,338 It's sort of, um, and so three seems to work quite well. 682 00:30:57,338 --> 00:30:57,790 Any more than that. 683 00:30:58,118 --> 00:31:00,278 I feel like I'm bugging somebody. 684 00:31:00,788 --> 00:31:01,268 Um. 685 00:31:01,268 --> 00:31:01,898 Mm-hmm. 686 00:31:02,273 --> 00:31:06,293 And you find that actually whatever percent open the first one out of 687 00:31:06,293 --> 00:31:08,753 the people that didn't open the first one, there's a percentage of open. 688 00:31:08,753 --> 00:31:11,393 The second one, there's a percentage that open the third one, and then 689 00:31:11,393 --> 00:31:14,333 the, the ones that didn't open one through three, I probably shouldn't 690 00:31:14,333 --> 00:31:16,883 be emailing them anyway, to be honest with you, cuz something's not working 691 00:31:16,883 --> 00:31:18,353 somewhere and it's not helping me out. 692 00:31:18,353 --> 00:31:18,593 So, yeah. 693 00:31:19,493 --> 00:31:22,403 Um, that's really interesting. 694 00:31:22,403 --> 00:31:25,613 So, and you call this on demand, is that your phrase? 695 00:31:25,613 --> 00:31:28,433 Is that the term, is that an industry standard term or is 696 00:31:28,433 --> 00:31:30,113 that a, is that a rodeo term? 697 00:31:31,328 --> 00:31:33,038 Uh, it's a rodeo term. 698 00:31:34,958 --> 00:31:35,468 It's hard as know. 699 00:31:35,973 --> 00:31:37,868 Yeah, well, no, let's quick, let's trademark it. 700 00:31:39,278 --> 00:31:39,568 Yeah. 701 00:31:40,118 --> 00:31:44,168 So have you got any, um, I dunno if you know, if you know the answer 702 00:31:44,168 --> 00:31:46,448 to this question, but I'm kind of curious, are there any companies that 703 00:31:46,448 --> 00:31:51,158 you think are doing that particularly well where as being all nosy Parkers 704 00:31:51,158 --> 00:31:53,678 can just go on their website and have a look at how they're doing it? 705 00:31:55,448 --> 00:31:56,678 Yeah, I mean, I think so. 706 00:31:57,188 --> 00:31:59,678 You know, one brand that's just been really thoughtful cause I think. 707 00:32:00,293 --> 00:32:02,363 We didn't talk about this, but say like, one of the most important things 708 00:32:02,363 --> 00:32:07,313 around subscriptions is providing value outside of just a product. 709 00:32:07,373 --> 00:32:07,733 Mm-hmm. 710 00:32:07,973 --> 00:32:08,063 Right? 711 00:32:08,543 --> 00:32:13,073 So, um, when I think about subscriptions, I think less about, like 712 00:32:13,073 --> 00:32:14,783 subscription is a, is a revenue model. 713 00:32:15,533 --> 00:32:17,543 Um, Business model. 714 00:32:17,783 --> 00:32:22,403 Um, but you know, ultimately the job to be done is a customer wants 715 00:32:22,408 --> 00:32:23,633 their product when they want it. 716 00:32:23,693 --> 00:32:23,783 Mm-hmm. 717 00:32:24,023 --> 00:32:24,773 Not too much, too little. 718 00:32:24,778 --> 00:32:26,693 They don't actually care about a subscription. 719 00:32:26,963 --> 00:32:29,903 What they care about is not running out and having enough. 720 00:32:29,908 --> 00:32:29,983 Yeah. 721 00:32:30,353 --> 00:32:30,533 Yeah. 722 00:32:30,563 --> 00:32:33,203 Um, or not getting too much rather. 723 00:32:33,443 --> 00:32:37,673 And so what I've seen brands do a really good job of, and, and Jot coffee 724 00:32:37,673 --> 00:32:43,373 is one example is layering in like, membership, um, into a subscription. 725 00:32:43,823 --> 00:32:50,393 So with Jot, um, What they do is they, there are products they basically 726 00:32:50,393 --> 00:32:53,573 do, like, they collaborate with artisanal coffees and they do small 727 00:32:53,573 --> 00:32:58,283 batch, uh, small batch coffees mm-hmm. 728 00:32:58,553 --> 00:33:01,133 Where you can only buy 'em over the course of, let's say like a month. 729 00:33:01,133 --> 00:33:01,223 Mm-hmm. 730 00:33:01,463 --> 00:33:04,333 And then they'll, they'll, they'll switch it up with a different partnership. 731 00:33:04,793 --> 00:33:09,053 But the only way to buy that type of coffee is by being a subscriber. 732 00:33:09,383 --> 00:33:09,733 Right. 733 00:33:09,738 --> 00:33:10,073 Right. 734 00:33:10,073 --> 00:33:14,243 So, effectively, They are, um, yeah, they're, they are creating 735 00:33:14,243 --> 00:33:17,963 explicit perks for having a subscription in the first place. 736 00:33:18,293 --> 00:33:22,163 And so, Jot is like a great example, I'd say, who's done subscriptions really well. 737 00:33:22,733 --> 00:33:27,593 Um, and we worked with them a lot around like, just their strategy around, um, 738 00:33:27,653 --> 00:33:36,008 how do you try to address the concerns or mismatch between, um, Say like 739 00:33:36,008 --> 00:33:39,098 a cu what a customer, like, what's a great experience for a customer. 740 00:33:39,098 --> 00:33:39,188 Mm-hmm. 741 00:33:39,428 --> 00:33:42,278 And then if someone's kind of deviating off or getting too much product, what 742 00:33:42,283 --> 00:33:47,678 are different ways that you can go about, um, trying to solve their problem? 743 00:33:48,038 --> 00:33:48,368 Hmm. 744 00:33:48,968 --> 00:33:53,468 But I think in general, the brands who I've seen, I'd say like the 745 00:33:53,473 --> 00:33:57,938 thoughtfulness of how they've approached their subscription program is really 746 00:33:58,058 --> 00:33:59,708 from a, from a membership perspective. 747 00:34:00,188 --> 00:34:03,758 Um, And so that's, yeah. 748 00:34:03,798 --> 00:34:05,168 Jot is one great example. 749 00:34:05,678 --> 00:34:07,958 Um, I'm trying to think of a few more off the top of my head. 750 00:34:08,618 --> 00:34:13,058 Um, MUD/W is another one. 751 00:34:13,328 --> 00:34:13,448 Okay. 752 00:34:13,598 --> 00:34:16,088 Um, where Mud water is very much like a lifestyle. 753 00:34:16,208 --> 00:34:17,978 I dunno if you're familiar, like a copy alternative. 754 00:34:17,983 --> 00:34:18,258 Mm-hmm. 755 00:34:18,398 --> 00:34:22,568 Um, I'm, I'm, I'm friends with the founder, so I, I, obviously I'm 756 00:34:22,568 --> 00:34:26,978 biased, but, um, they were like, but I paid really close attention 757 00:34:26,978 --> 00:34:29,318 to how they, um, approached. 758 00:34:29,843 --> 00:34:32,123 Uh, we'll call it like their community as a brand. 759 00:34:32,183 --> 00:34:32,273 Mm-hmm. 760 00:34:32,513 --> 00:34:35,663 And you know, I think one thing that they did, they've done really well is 761 00:34:35,663 --> 00:34:37,793 they created a brand with a capital B. 762 00:34:38,093 --> 00:34:38,333 Right. 763 00:34:38,333 --> 00:34:42,353 They're not just, you know, there's a lot of coffee substitutes now, 764 00:34:42,653 --> 00:34:44,033 but there's only one mud water. 765 00:34:44,393 --> 00:34:44,663 Yeah. 766 00:34:44,723 --> 00:34:48,833 And what Mud Water's done a great job of is like creating content and 767 00:34:49,103 --> 00:34:52,913 like recipes around how to create like, you know, like a mud water. 768 00:34:52,913 --> 00:34:54,923 I think they have like lattes and stuff like that. 769 00:34:54,953 --> 00:34:55,283 Oh wow. 770 00:34:55,313 --> 00:34:57,743 So again, like what they've done is like something cool where it's like, 771 00:34:58,253 --> 00:35:02,873 It doesn't have to be a crazy, um, additional value, but it's something that 772 00:35:02,873 --> 00:35:07,043 connects back to how do you enhance the experience of consuming that product. 773 00:35:07,048 --> 00:35:07,383 Yeah, yeah. 774 00:35:07,463 --> 00:35:07,583 Yeah. 775 00:35:07,673 --> 00:35:08,183 Um, 776 00:35:10,223 --> 00:35:13,073 well, I'll check out, uh, is it Jot coffee? 777 00:35:13,073 --> 00:35:13,973 J o t 778 00:35:15,083 --> 00:35:15,323 Yeah. 779 00:35:15,353 --> 00:35:16,283 jot.co. 780 00:35:16,673 --> 00:35:16,733 Yeah. 781 00:35:17,003 --> 00:35:17,453 Yeah. 782 00:35:17,458 --> 00:35:17,523 Okay. 783 00:35:17,843 --> 00:35:18,054 Jot coffee. 784 00:35:18,833 --> 00:35:19,433 Uh, mud Water. 785 00:35:19,433 --> 00:35:20,423 We'll have a look at those. 786 00:35:20,693 --> 00:35:25,313 Now, I'm curious, Ben, you, you mentioned, uh, this the perk of subscriptions. 787 00:35:26,243 --> 00:35:27,893 Was the exact phrase you used. 788 00:35:27,893 --> 00:35:29,933 I don't know if you intentionally used that phrase, but otherwise, 789 00:35:30,023 --> 00:35:31,223 otherwise a very good phrase. 790 00:35:31,223 --> 00:35:34,433 So what are the perks of, you should definitely use that more often. 791 00:35:34,438 --> 00:35:34,493 Yeah. 792 00:35:34,523 --> 00:35:35,723 What are the perks of subscription? 793 00:35:36,083 --> 00:35:41,183 So let's say I offer, um, I, let's go back to my tea example. 794 00:35:41,183 --> 00:35:44,873 You know, I do tea subscriptions and you subscribe and every 795 00:35:44,873 --> 00:35:46,403 month I send you tea bags. 796 00:35:46,403 --> 00:35:49,973 And, um, depending on, I might do the on demand, I might do 797 00:35:49,973 --> 00:35:51,143 the, the subscription models. 798 00:35:52,733 --> 00:35:53,633 How do I. 799 00:35:54,458 --> 00:35:56,378 How do I think outside the box end? 800 00:35:56,378 --> 00:36:00,668 So there's perks of subscriptions, and I love the word use, thoughtfulness. 801 00:36:00,698 --> 00:36:02,978 What are some of the other things that I should think about as 802 00:36:02,983 --> 00:36:04,628 opposed to just getting subscribers? 803 00:36:04,628 --> 00:36:05,438 What else can I do? 804 00:36:06,233 --> 00:36:09,263 So I like what Jock Coffee have in with, uh, with, with the sort of 805 00:36:09,263 --> 00:36:11,913 the artisanal coffees, with the, you know, the, the sort of, mm-hmm. 806 00:36:11,998 --> 00:36:13,163 The small amounts. 807 00:36:13,793 --> 00:36:14,543 But that's not me. 808 00:36:14,548 --> 00:36:16,013 I don't, I don't have access to that. 809 00:36:16,013 --> 00:36:19,013 I'm just a regular tea guy with regular teas that's going out and I don't get, 810 00:36:19,343 --> 00:36:22,463 so what are, what are some of the ways that maybe I should think about that and 811 00:36:22,463 --> 00:36:27,593 approach that that's gonna add value, that's gonna create the, in effect, 812 00:36:27,593 --> 00:36:29,303 what my perks of subscription are. 813 00:36:30,938 --> 00:36:31,358 Yeah. 814 00:36:31,388 --> 00:36:36,788 So I mean you can go super basic, like I think Costco and even Amazon are 815 00:36:36,788 --> 00:36:39,248 sort of examples of, of membership. 816 00:36:39,458 --> 00:36:39,548 Mm-hmm. 817 00:36:39,883 --> 00:36:41,588 And so you can even look at what have they done? 818 00:36:41,593 --> 00:36:44,438 So Amazon two day free shipping, right? 819 00:36:44,588 --> 00:36:46,628 Shipping is actually is one of the biggest reasons. 820 00:36:46,658 --> 00:36:48,198 Prices around shipping are one of the biggest reasons. 821 00:36:48,198 --> 00:36:49,878 People shopping carts. 822 00:36:50,068 --> 00:36:50,358 Yeah. 823 00:36:50,558 --> 00:36:52,028 Um, right. 824 00:36:52,388 --> 00:36:56,498 Um, members only discounts is another one, which is again, like. 825 00:36:57,023 --> 00:37:01,163 The Costco model where, um, you typically you're buying in bulk, but 826 00:37:01,193 --> 00:37:02,933 you can have like members only pricing. 827 00:37:03,503 --> 00:37:06,863 Um, you know, those are the two obvious ones. 828 00:37:06,863 --> 00:37:11,603 And then obviously Amazon itself has paired Amazon Prime or video Yeah. 829 00:37:11,608 --> 00:37:13,253 With the Amazon Prime program. 830 00:37:13,493 --> 00:37:16,523 And what's ac what's, what's interesting about that too is that Amazon actually 831 00:37:16,523 --> 00:37:18,023 has two separate subscriptions, right? 832 00:37:18,023 --> 00:37:19,553 They have Amazon Prime, which is. 833 00:37:19,973 --> 00:37:23,573 You get all this stuff and two day free shipping, et cetera. 834 00:37:23,693 --> 00:37:26,033 But then you also can have subscriptions to individual products. 835 00:37:26,033 --> 00:37:26,513 So they've mm-hmm. 836 00:37:26,813 --> 00:37:30,173 They have, they have separated the two, or they both have a subscription program. 837 00:37:30,178 --> 00:37:30,303 Mm-hmm. 838 00:37:30,503 --> 00:37:31,703 Or membership program rather. 839 00:37:32,033 --> 00:37:33,683 And then individual subscriptions. 840 00:37:34,073 --> 00:37:38,663 Um, Amazon itself doesn't offer any benefits to their subscription program, 841 00:37:39,713 --> 00:37:41,693 um, beyond just sending you the product. 842 00:37:42,548 --> 00:37:46,028 Yeah, and I think you get a small dis, I get like a 5% discount 843 00:37:46,238 --> 00:37:48,098 or something, 5% or something like that. 844 00:37:48,098 --> 00:37:48,578 Mm-hmm. 845 00:37:48,584 --> 00:37:48,828 Yeah. 846 00:37:49,088 --> 00:37:52,718 And I will say that's one of the dangers that I, I've seen brands 847 00:37:52,718 --> 00:37:56,108 do is discounting subscriptions too much to make them mm-hmm. 848 00:37:56,618 --> 00:37:57,488 Too attractive. 849 00:37:57,728 --> 00:38:01,718 So, going back to like, you know, by and large brands are super, 850 00:38:02,228 --> 00:38:05,378 um, bullish on pushing people into a subscription program. 851 00:38:05,528 --> 00:38:07,478 The problem is that you can make your subscription. 852 00:38:07,808 --> 00:38:10,418 Look so attractive that you're attracting a lot of people who 853 00:38:10,418 --> 00:38:11,708 have no intention of renewing. 854 00:38:12,218 --> 00:38:12,398 Yeah. 855 00:38:12,428 --> 00:38:12,698 Right. 856 00:38:12,698 --> 00:38:17,558 Because if you're offering 30% off for a subscription, someone's just 857 00:38:17,558 --> 00:38:19,298 gonna subscribe and then cancel. 858 00:38:19,658 --> 00:38:19,808 Yeah. 859 00:38:19,838 --> 00:38:20,168 Right? 860 00:38:20,168 --> 00:38:23,468 And so that's part of why, you know, typically what I've seen work is, you 861 00:38:23,468 --> 00:38:27,578 know, maybe subscription, uh, discount around like 15%, but once you started 862 00:38:27,578 --> 00:38:32,768 getting into the 25, 30%, you're really just making that, uh, very attractive. 863 00:38:33,533 --> 00:38:37,253 Um, and it, or rather attracting the wrong people like you in your subscription 864 00:38:37,253 --> 00:38:39,563 program, for it to be healthy, you wanna be attracting the people for whom 865 00:38:39,743 --> 00:38:41,873 a subscription is like a good model. 866 00:38:41,933 --> 00:38:41,993 Yeah. 867 00:38:41,993 --> 00:38:42,743 It's a good match. 868 00:38:42,773 --> 00:38:42,833 Yeah. 869 00:38:42,923 --> 00:38:44,483 Because otherwise you're going to churn. 870 00:38:44,723 --> 00:38:49,043 Like you can't trick someone to stay in a subscription. 871 00:38:49,043 --> 00:38:52,813 And I think especially some of the earlier brands, um, you know, part 872 00:38:53,123 --> 00:38:55,553 of the hope is, well, maybe someone will forget they have a subscription 873 00:38:55,823 --> 00:38:57,323 and that might work sometimes. 874 00:38:57,323 --> 00:39:00,713 But as you scale your business and as you're trying to presumably build like. 875 00:39:01,928 --> 00:39:05,678 Like a great brand name and a great relationship relationship 876 00:39:05,828 --> 00:39:06,878 with your, your customers. 877 00:39:07,508 --> 00:39:14,018 You can't, like, you can't, even that is not, that is a losing battle. 878 00:39:14,318 --> 00:39:14,468 Yeah. 879 00:39:14,498 --> 00:39:14,858 Right. 880 00:39:15,338 --> 00:39:18,098 Instead of just be focusing on how can I provi deliver the absolute 881 00:39:18,098 --> 00:39:22,418 best experience for each one of my, my customers, my brands, as opposed 882 00:39:22,418 --> 00:39:26,468 to, I just hope that people will forget they have a subscription. 883 00:39:27,338 --> 00:39:29,378 Um, but I, I hear that every once in a while. 884 00:39:29,378 --> 00:39:32,078 Like brands who are like, they don't want to email their subscribers 885 00:39:32,078 --> 00:39:33,728 cause they don't wanna remind them that they have a subscription. 886 00:39:34,388 --> 00:39:37,808 And so I keep going back to the you're better off proactively. 887 00:39:37,868 --> 00:39:42,038 You might, you will probably, you will lose more people by reminding 888 00:39:42,038 --> 00:39:45,308 they have a subscription, but you're keeping the people and you're able 889 00:39:45,308 --> 00:39:48,848 to upsell the people who actually like and embrace the subscription. 890 00:39:48,848 --> 00:39:51,578 And ultimately you have a healthier, you're providing a healthier 891 00:39:51,583 --> 00:39:53,018 experience and a better experience. 892 00:39:53,023 --> 00:39:53,158 Yeah. 893 00:39:53,288 --> 00:39:54,068 And if someone. 894 00:39:54,803 --> 00:39:56,843 Forget they have a subscription and then. 895 00:39:57,368 --> 00:40:00,173 Gets charged and gets the product, they're having a bad experience. 896 00:40:00,413 --> 00:40:03,113 And the first thing they'll do, kind of like when I got that, when I got 897 00:40:03,113 --> 00:40:05,423 the paper towels, the first thing I did is I canceled the subscription. 898 00:40:05,428 --> 00:40:05,763 Yeah, yeah, 899 00:40:05,993 --> 00:40:06,323 yeah. 900 00:40:06,383 --> 00:40:06,893 I'm out. 901 00:40:07,403 --> 00:40:10,883 Well, I did, I, I mean, the weekend, over the weekend I got a charge 902 00:40:10,883 --> 00:40:13,613 on my American Express card from, I think it was like a thousand 903 00:40:13,613 --> 00:40:15,233 dollars, which I wasn't expecting. 904 00:40:15,743 --> 00:40:18,413 And so you're gonna notice, you know, when someone charges your card 905 00:40:18,418 --> 00:40:21,473 a thousand bucks and it was section four, which is like a membership site. 906 00:40:21,713 --> 00:40:22,043 Oh. 907 00:40:22,043 --> 00:40:22,583 Uh, yeah. 908 00:40:22,588 --> 00:40:23,003 I'm a member. 909 00:40:23,468 --> 00:40:23,648 Yeah. 910 00:40:23,648 --> 00:40:23,858 Yeah. 911 00:40:23,858 --> 00:40:28,748 And to be fair, I, I signed up on an offer, um, and I enjoyed it for 912 00:40:28,748 --> 00:40:31,388 a few months and then subsequently completely forgot about it. 913 00:40:31,688 --> 00:40:37,508 Um, yeah, and, you know, they probably could have been more helpful with their 914 00:40:37,508 --> 00:40:41,588 onboarding process, but this is, you know, it swings and roundabouts really, and I 915 00:40:41,588 --> 00:40:45,758 forgot about it until I saw this charge for like a thousand bucks on my Amex card. 916 00:40:46,208 --> 00:40:50,573 So, Today I just emailed them, said, listen, I'm really sorry I don't use it. 917 00:40:50,573 --> 00:40:54,233 Can you please refund this and cancel my membership? 918 00:40:54,563 --> 00:40:59,063 So I, I genuinely, I've not checked my junk, my spam, Ben, 919 00:40:59,063 --> 00:41:00,443 I have to lie, uh, be honest. 920 00:41:00,443 --> 00:41:06,083 But I, I don't, I don't remember getting an email from them saying, your 921 00:41:06,083 --> 00:41:08,723 membership is about to, you know, expire. 922 00:41:08,723 --> 00:41:09,623 Do you want to renew? 923 00:41:09,653 --> 00:41:12,563 Because had they have had, they have preempted it. 924 00:41:13,193 --> 00:41:14,033 And said, listen. 925 00:41:14,093 --> 00:41:14,213 Mm-hmm. 926 00:41:14,453 --> 00:41:17,783 In a, in two weeks time, your membership's coming up, um, you're gonna recharge you 927 00:41:17,783 --> 00:41:20,963 a thousand bucks, which is very different to what they charged me a year ago. 928 00:41:21,113 --> 00:41:21,293 Right. 929 00:41:21,563 --> 00:41:25,283 Um, uh, any questions, let us, you know, let us know. 930 00:41:25,293 --> 00:41:28,433 I've, I've got in touch from go, oh, cancel it. 931 00:41:29,243 --> 00:41:32,063 Which is in effect, the same thing that I've, I've done now cause I don't use it. 932 00:41:32,783 --> 00:41:33,773 What that would've done. 933 00:41:33,773 --> 00:41:33,863 Mm-hmm. 934 00:41:34,163 --> 00:41:37,103 What that could have done was trigger somebody in customer service 935 00:41:37,103 --> 00:41:39,413 to go, why'd you want to cancel? 936 00:41:39,893 --> 00:41:40,733 Um, yes. 937 00:41:40,913 --> 00:41:42,113 How can we help you? 938 00:41:42,113 --> 00:41:44,663 Maybe we can steer you down this path so you're still 939 00:41:44,663 --> 00:41:46,133 connected with us in some way. 940 00:41:46,133 --> 00:41:49,523 Maybe it's less money than we thought we were gonna get, but had they 941 00:41:49,523 --> 00:41:54,008 have been proactive, like you said, Um, and thought that whole process 942 00:41:54,008 --> 00:41:57,668 through, they probably would still have me as a customer versus me now. 943 00:41:57,668 --> 00:41:58,508 I'm just, I'm out. 944 00:41:58,508 --> 00:42:00,668 You've charged me a grand, you didn't tell me you were gonna do it. 945 00:42:00,698 --> 00:42:01,868 I don't use the system. 946 00:42:01,868 --> 00:42:03,128 I'm just, I'm out, out, out. 947 00:42:03,128 --> 00:42:03,908 I've checked out. 948 00:42:04,508 --> 00:42:07,958 Um, and I, so I totally get what you're saying because this weekend 949 00:42:07,963 --> 00:42:11,438 I, I experienced it from them, which surprised me actually, because I really 950 00:42:11,438 --> 00:42:14,408 like Section four and what they do, but I, I just wasn't expecting that. 951 00:42:14,498 --> 00:42:14,798 Right. 952 00:42:14,803 --> 00:42:14,898 Yeah. 953 00:42:16,388 --> 00:42:21,008 And I think that, like, that moment that you just described is what, like, even if. 954 00:42:21,428 --> 00:42:23,888 The brand, you know? 955 00:42:23,888 --> 00:42:24,188 Yes. 956 00:42:24,188 --> 00:42:27,488 You can request a refund and I'm sure they'll give it to you, but you still 957 00:42:27,488 --> 00:42:31,448 kind of, even at some sort of level, like psychologically, you, you have a 958 00:42:31,448 --> 00:42:34,928 bit of a, probably a bad taste in your mouth of, well, shit, I don't know if I 959 00:42:34,928 --> 00:42:37,118 wanna, if I'll even like subscribe again. 960 00:42:37,123 --> 00:42:37,838 Something like that. 961 00:42:37,838 --> 00:42:41,528 Cuz what if I, well what if it happens again, then I don't catch it. 962 00:42:42,038 --> 00:42:42,248 Yeah. 963 00:42:42,278 --> 00:42:42,638 Right. 964 00:42:43,013 --> 00:42:46,193 And so I think that what, what you said, like that would've been the 965 00:42:46,193 --> 00:42:47,783 perfect way for them to approach it. 966 00:42:48,053 --> 00:42:50,933 And then they could've either like, you know, downs sold you into like, 967 00:42:51,083 --> 00:42:52,253 we'll call it like a light version. 968 00:42:52,253 --> 00:42:54,353 They don't, I don't think they have a light version, but like, or 969 00:42:54,353 --> 00:42:57,953 like month to month or something to keep you as a customer. 970 00:42:57,993 --> 00:42:58,283 Yeah. 971 00:42:58,613 --> 00:43:02,693 Or even like, what they also could have done is, um, initiatives regardless, 972 00:43:02,693 --> 00:43:06,863 but like, Basically know that you weren't using the videos or weren't 973 00:43:06,863 --> 00:43:08,543 actually participating in the courses. 974 00:43:08,753 --> 00:43:12,233 And they should have been like, here are ways now, like in the upcoming year, 975 00:43:12,473 --> 00:43:14,033 you can make more of your subscription. 976 00:43:14,363 --> 00:43:14,603 Yeah. 977 00:43:14,663 --> 00:43:16,043 Or your membership to section. 978 00:43:16,253 --> 00:43:16,643 Right. 979 00:43:17,093 --> 00:43:21,204 So even just personalizing that message based off of, they have all that data. 980 00:43:21,209 --> 00:43:21,573 Mm-hmm. 981 00:43:21,893 --> 00:43:25,343 They know that you probably have not logged in in nine months, but 982 00:43:25,343 --> 00:43:26,723 they're not using that for anything. 983 00:43:27,083 --> 00:43:27,323 Yeah. 984 00:43:27,323 --> 00:43:32,993 And so using that to just personalize it to the person would also go really far. 985 00:43:33,593 --> 00:43:34,823 Yeah, it would, it would. 986 00:43:34,853 --> 00:43:37,343 I mean, there's a whole lot of lessons you can learn from 987 00:43:37,343 --> 00:43:38,363 something like that, I feel. 988 00:43:38,603 --> 00:43:38,893 Yeah. 989 00:43:39,233 --> 00:43:40,193 But no, that's awesome. 990 00:43:40,193 --> 00:43:43,853 Yeah, Ben, listen, I feel like I, I say this quite a lot to, to, I guess, 991 00:43:43,853 --> 00:43:46,403 but I feel like I'm just getting started and I'm aware of the time. 992 00:43:46,973 --> 00:43:50,783 Um, it's, uh, it's amazing how quickly it sort of, so there's 993 00:43:50,783 --> 00:43:52,763 like, Sadaf who produces a show. 994 00:43:52,763 --> 00:43:53,933 She's, she's awesome. 995 00:43:54,083 --> 00:43:57,833 You'd have spoken Sadaf and she writes down all these questions for you, for me. 996 00:43:57,833 --> 00:43:58,973 And she's like, well, ask him this. 997 00:43:58,973 --> 00:44:00,113 Ask him this would be a great question. 998 00:44:00,713 --> 00:44:03,083 And I, I, I get to the first one and then that's it. 999 00:44:03,263 --> 00:44:04,973 So, so Sadaf, I'm really sorry. 1000 00:44:05,573 --> 00:44:07,493 Uh, your, your work is super valuable. 1001 00:44:07,493 --> 00:44:08,063 It really is. 1002 00:44:08,068 --> 00:44:10,223 But, uh, there's great conversations, so. 1003 00:44:11,143 --> 00:44:14,623 But listen, as you know, this show is sponsored by the e-commerce cohort, 1004 00:44:14,623 --> 00:44:18,013 which helps, uh, businesses deliver e-commerce wowl to their customers 1005 00:44:18,013 --> 00:44:19,513 through coaching, through training. 1006 00:44:19,843 --> 00:44:21,223 A bit like section four, really. 1007 00:44:21,283 --> 00:44:23,773 Uh, hopefully we can learn something from their membership program. 1008 00:44:24,373 --> 00:44:28,693 Uh, but imagine you are speaking to a room full of cohort members are eager to learn. 1009 00:44:29,018 --> 00:44:33,128 Uh, from your expertise and you go on, you've done your keynote speech 1010 00:44:33,158 --> 00:44:36,798 on subscriptions and on demand models, and there you get the standing ovation. 1011 00:44:36,848 --> 00:44:37,028 Wow. 1012 00:44:37,148 --> 00:44:37,328 Yeah. 1013 00:44:37,568 --> 00:44:38,018 Go Ben. 1014 00:44:38,438 --> 00:44:39,218 Uh, that's awesome. 1015 00:44:39,818 --> 00:44:42,908 Uh, and you, so you stand up, you're there, you have the opportunity 1016 00:44:42,908 --> 00:44:46,438 to thank those who have influenced your own e-commerce journey. 1017 00:44:46,808 --> 00:44:51,638 And I'm curious to know who do you thank and why? 1018 00:44:54,428 --> 00:44:55,418 That's a great question. 1019 00:44:56,228 --> 00:45:08,438 Um, you know, I think, so before my previous company Cart Hook, I 1020 00:45:08,438 --> 00:45:09,728 hadn't worked in e-commerce before. 1021 00:45:09,728 --> 00:45:09,818 Mm-hmm. 1022 00:45:10,388 --> 00:45:14,078 Uh, I've always come from like the bi, the software, the soft, the SaaS side. 1023 00:45:14,558 --> 00:45:18,788 Um, and so it was really through that experience of building cart hook. 1024 00:45:18,788 --> 00:45:22,298 My business partner Jordan, he himself was an e-commerce merchant and it sold 1025 00:45:22,298 --> 00:45:28,298 his e-commerce business and, um, By working with all of those merchants, 1026 00:45:28,538 --> 00:45:32,978 and I guess we guys got really involved in their businesses, their dreams. 1027 00:45:32,978 --> 00:45:38,768 Like I learned so much through osmosis that it really like it, it's, 1028 00:45:38,773 --> 00:45:40,748 it's cliche at this point, but Hmm. 1029 00:45:40,838 --> 00:45:45,968 Um, I really became close to, uh, and invested in their success. 1030 00:45:46,298 --> 00:45:46,418 Mm-hmm. 1031 00:45:46,808 --> 00:45:50,828 And so like everything I've learned has been, um, by. 1032 00:45:51,723 --> 00:45:54,098 Just talking with merchants and trying to help them. 1033 00:45:54,098 --> 00:45:54,188 Mm-hmm. 1034 00:45:54,598 --> 00:45:54,678 Right. 1035 00:45:54,878 --> 00:45:58,898 And so between Cart Hook and Rodeo, I was a fractional CTO for 1036 00:45:58,898 --> 00:46:00,278 subscription e-commerce brands. 1037 00:46:00,758 --> 00:46:07,088 Um, and so, you know, I've, everything I know is, is, uh, is, is through 1038 00:46:07,093 --> 00:46:10,509 those experiences of working inside and with brand owners and I think, 1039 00:46:10,778 --> 00:46:13,988 you know, so that obviously has had, I'm grateful for all of them. 1040 00:46:13,988 --> 00:46:18,218 And there's not necessarily one individual one, I think, um, Actually 1041 00:46:18,218 --> 00:46:22,298 James Booth, who's the head of growth at Jot, I've learned so much from him. 1042 00:46:22,868 --> 00:46:26,378 Um, and just the way he thinks about the, the consumer experience, 1043 00:46:26,678 --> 00:46:31,328 I think that informed a lot around even how we thought about on demand. 1044 00:46:31,388 --> 00:46:34,988 And, um, you know, just like the feedback that we've gotten, 1045 00:46:35,438 --> 00:46:37,118 um, from, from people like him. 1046 00:46:37,958 --> 00:46:41,008 Um, I'm trying to think like. 1047 00:46:46,928 --> 00:46:51,038 And the, the event I'm at right now, shop Talk, like I learned so much 1048 00:46:51,038 --> 00:46:53,348 just by listening to other people's conversations, whether it's yeah, 1049 00:46:54,008 --> 00:46:59,198 other brands or, or, um, or vendors. 1050 00:46:59,198 --> 00:47:01,868 It's like when they, when when you talk to someone who's an expert in their 1051 00:47:01,873 --> 00:47:06,148 space, like they'll, they'll go beyond like the superficial things that, um, 1052 00:47:06,608 --> 00:47:09,728 are sort of, we'll call it like common, common knowledge and you start getting 1053 00:47:09,728 --> 00:47:11,768 really surprised, like, holy crap, like. 1054 00:47:12,758 --> 00:47:15,458 You know, like I have one friend who does, like, who has a company that, that does 1055 00:47:15,458 --> 00:47:20,378 like, uh, post-purchase surveys and the amount of data they get around and, and 1056 00:47:20,378 --> 00:47:24,188 like what they've been able to do around predictive analysis around like being able 1057 00:47:24,188 --> 00:47:28,508 to at attribute where a PR shopper came from and what's that mean and how does it 1058 00:47:28,508 --> 00:47:30,038 tie back to where you should do marketing? 1059 00:47:30,168 --> 00:47:32,438 It goes way beyond anything I ever would've imagined. 1060 00:47:32,488 --> 00:47:32,908 Mm-hmm. 1061 00:47:33,168 --> 00:47:36,878 Um, So, but I'm gonna continue to think on that. 1062 00:47:36,878 --> 00:47:37,958 I appreciate the question. 1063 00:47:37,958 --> 00:47:39,558 I I, no one's ever asked that before. 1064 00:47:40,688 --> 00:47:42,338 I think it's a really interesting question, isn't it? 1065 00:47:42,338 --> 00:47:45,188 Because, uh, yeah, you find out a lot about people. 1066 00:47:45,188 --> 00:47:46,658 I think when you ask him questions like that. 1067 00:47:46,718 --> 00:47:47,678 That's really, that's really cool. 1068 00:47:47,828 --> 00:47:48,368 That's awesome. 1069 00:47:48,368 --> 00:47:52,418 So, uh, James Booth from Jot, uh, uh, a a million, 1070 00:47:52,418 --> 00:47:52,419 yeah. 1071 00:47:52,424 --> 00:47:52,518 Yeah. 1072 00:47:52,748 --> 00:47:53,868 He's no longer at Jot, but yeah. 1073 00:47:53,938 --> 00:47:54,898 Yeah, yeah, 1074 00:47:54,903 --> 00:47:55,258 yeah. 1075 00:47:55,258 --> 00:48:00,478 And a million subscribers to CartHook or however many was, uh, 1076 00:48:00,868 --> 00:48:02,338 saying subscribers, merchants. 1077 00:48:02,818 --> 00:48:05,428 Um, listen, uh, Ben, how do people reach you? 1078 00:48:05,428 --> 00:48:08,338 How do they connect with you if they want to find out more about you, about, 1079 00:48:08,458 --> 00:48:10,318 um, what you guys are doing at Rodeo? 1080 00:48:10,323 --> 00:48:12,928 If they want some help with their subscription, your software 1081 00:48:12,933 --> 00:48:14,458 works with Shopify sites, right? 1082 00:48:14,458 --> 00:48:16,018 You've got a a Shopify system. 1083 00:48:16,023 --> 00:48:16,418 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1084 00:48:17,578 --> 00:48:17,908 So yeah. 1085 00:48:17,908 --> 00:48:18,748 How do people reach you? 1086 00:48:18,748 --> 00:48:19,348 How do they connect? 1087 00:48:20,558 --> 00:48:25,658 So first one is our, you can go to our website, Hey.Rodeo, h e y, not 1088 00:48:25,688 --> 00:48:27,728 hey, like a horse, um, period rodeo. 1089 00:48:28,028 --> 00:48:31,058 Um, I'm also, I'm active on LinkedIn and I'm on Twitter. 1090 00:48:31,088 --> 00:48:32,468 My username is skinny and bald. 1091 00:48:32,723 --> 00:48:34,763 Because I'm kind of skinny, kinda bald. 1092 00:48:35,363 --> 00:48:38,843 Certainly more balder today, balder these days. 1093 00:48:39,653 --> 00:48:40,673 Um, that's so brilliant. 1094 00:48:41,033 --> 00:48:42,293 I'm just Matt Edmundson on Twitter. 1095 00:48:42,293 --> 00:48:44,093 I couldn't think of anything that creative obviously. 1096 00:48:46,013 --> 00:48:50,533 Um, yeah, and then we, we have our podcast around subscriptions subscription radio. 1097 00:48:51,193 --> 00:48:52,813 Um, yeah, tell us a little bit about that. 1098 00:48:54,758 --> 00:48:55,058 Yeah. 1099 00:48:55,058 --> 00:49:00,368 So, um, when we started Rodeo, we also, my partner and I just were really 1100 00:49:00,368 --> 00:49:03,248 interested in talking about the things we've been learning in subscriptions 1101 00:49:03,253 --> 00:49:05,318 and specifically interviewing merchants. 1102 00:49:05,318 --> 00:49:08,558 So similar to what you just did with me, uh, I enjoy doing the reverse, 1103 00:49:08,588 --> 00:49:10,478 which is talking to merchants. 1104 00:49:10,478 --> 00:49:13,029 who've had, um, a lot of success and understanding like 1105 00:49:13,118 --> 00:49:14,198 what's working for them now. 1106 00:49:14,198 --> 00:49:14,288 Mm-hmm. 1107 00:49:14,733 --> 00:49:16,868 Like, what are some of the things that they've learned that. 1108 00:49:17,183 --> 00:49:20,003 Um, the, the goal is to find things that are not just common knowledge. 1109 00:49:20,213 --> 00:49:22,523 Like what are not the things that everyone's tweeting about. 1110 00:49:22,523 --> 00:49:22,893 It's the mm-hmm. 1111 00:49:22,973 --> 00:49:26,753 What are the strategies and, and tactics that people aren't talking 1112 00:49:26,753 --> 00:49:30,713 about, um, and, but specifically have and have not worked mm-hmm. 1113 00:49:30,953 --> 00:49:31,523 For your business. 1114 00:49:31,528 --> 00:49:34,493 And how did you break through that, that growth plateau, um, or 1115 00:49:34,498 --> 00:49:36,803 capitalize on a strategy that worked. 1116 00:49:37,103 --> 00:49:38,333 So that's what I do. 1117 00:49:38,333 --> 00:49:42,443 I interview operators and marketers, uh, on the brand side predominantly. 1118 00:49:42,803 --> 00:49:43,403 Fantastic. 1119 00:49:43,403 --> 00:49:44,933 And it's subscription radio, right? 1120 00:49:44,933 --> 00:49:46,343 Is that, that's the name of the podcast. 1121 00:49:46,343 --> 00:49:46,553 Yep. 1122 00:49:46,898 --> 00:49:47,108 Yep. 1123 00:49:47,108 --> 00:49:48,308 Subscriptionradio.com. 1124 00:49:48,848 --> 00:49:49,538 Fantastic. 1125 00:49:49,538 --> 00:49:53,708 So if you are doing subscriptions, then check out subscriptionradio.com for 1126 00:49:53,708 --> 00:49:55,358 more information about Ben's podcast. 1127 00:49:55,688 --> 00:50:00,288 We will of course link to him, uh, his LinkedIn profile and his skinny and bald 1128 00:50:00,338 --> 00:50:06,858 Twitter, uh, profile, uh, in the show notes as well as the website, hey.radio, 1129 00:50:06,988 --> 00:50:10,113 which I was saying Ben, before we hit the record button, is, Still one of 1130 00:50:10,113 --> 00:50:11,973 the coolest URLs we've had on the show. 1131 00:50:12,273 --> 00:50:14,343 Um, uh, hey.rodeo. 1132 00:50:14,733 --> 00:50:17,163 Uh, you can check out, uh, rodeo what's going on, especially if 1133 00:50:17,163 --> 00:50:18,723 you're in the subscription space. 1134 00:50:18,783 --> 00:50:20,433 Uh, and on Shopify. 1135 00:50:20,438 --> 00:50:24,633 I assume you have to be both Ben for, for Rodeo to work, um, for you. 1136 00:50:24,633 --> 00:50:27,123 But, um, yeah, if you're on Shopify in the subscription based 1137 00:50:27,128 --> 00:50:29,074 space, check out, uh, hey.rodeo. 1138 00:50:29,074 --> 00:50:30,183 And get in touch with Ben. 1139 00:50:30,183 --> 00:50:32,243 I'm sure he would love to hear from you. 1140 00:50:32,693 --> 00:50:35,003 Ben, listen, thank you so much for joining us, man. 1141 00:50:35,003 --> 00:50:36,173 Been an absolute pleasure. 1142 00:50:36,203 --> 00:50:38,033 A pleasure, pleasure. 1143 00:50:38,483 --> 00:50:40,973 Uh, and a pleasure as well. 1144 00:50:40,978 --> 00:50:41,633 I, I dunno. 1145 00:50:41,993 --> 00:50:44,423 Uh, but thanks for joining us, man on the e-commerce podcast. 1146 00:50:44,723 --> 00:50:47,273 It's been awesome to meet you and, um, thanks for sharing 1147 00:50:47,278 --> 00:50:48,623 a ton load of value with us. 1148 00:50:49,163 --> 00:50:49,863 Oh, likewise. 1149 00:50:50,033 --> 00:50:50,873 I really appreciate it. 1150 00:50:50,873 --> 00:50:51,623 Thank you so much. 1151 00:50:52,058 --> 00:50:52,748 No problem. 1152 00:50:52,748 --> 00:50:53,468 Well, there you have it. 1153 00:50:53,468 --> 00:50:54,698 What a great conversation. 1154 00:50:54,908 --> 00:50:58,118 Huge thanks again to Ben for joining me today. 1155 00:50:58,388 --> 00:51:02,318 Also, a big shout out to today's show sponsor the e-commerce cohort. 1156 00:51:02,323 --> 00:51:07,908 Remember to check out their free training online at ecommercecycles.com. 1157 00:51:08,273 --> 00:51:11,993 Also, be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever you get your podcast 1158 00:51:11,993 --> 00:51:15,683 from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up, and I 1159 00:51:15,713 --> 00:51:17,663 don't want you to miss any of them. 1160 00:51:17,668 --> 00:51:22,943 Now, before I wrap up today's episode, let me take a moment to invite you, 1161 00:51:22,943 --> 00:51:26,293 dear listener, or maybe someone you know, to be part of the podcast. 1162 00:51:26,903 --> 00:51:31,343 If you're an e-commerce entrepreneur, uh, or an expert in anything to do 1163 00:51:31,343 --> 00:51:34,823 with e-commerce and would like to share your insights with our audience, 1164 00:51:34,823 --> 00:51:36,233 we would love to hear from you. 1165 00:51:36,618 --> 00:51:40,488 Or like I say, maybe you know someone who would make a great guest. 1166 00:51:40,488 --> 00:51:43,698 Just head over to our website, ecommercepodcast.net, follow 1167 00:51:43,698 --> 00:51:46,668 the links and get in touch. 1168 00:51:46,668 --> 00:51:50,058 We're always looking for, uh, fresh perspectives and 1169 00:51:50,063 --> 00:51:51,198 new ideas, so don't be shy. 1170 00:51:51,198 --> 00:51:53,958 Whether you're just starting out or have years of experience under your 1171 00:51:53,963 --> 00:51:56,978 belt, we'd love to hear from you. 1172 00:51:57,078 --> 00:52:01,968 So yeah, do get in touch ecommercepodcast.net and in case no one 1173 00:52:01,968 --> 00:52:05,628 has told you yet today, you are awesome. 1174 00:52:05,833 --> 00:52:07,363 Yes, you are created awesome. 1175 00:52:07,363 --> 00:52:09,103 It's just a burden you have to bear. 1176 00:52:09,373 --> 00:52:10,333 Ben has to bear it. 1177 00:52:10,663 --> 00:52:11,473 I have to bear it. 1178 00:52:12,103 --> 00:52:12,973 You've gotta bear it too. 1179 00:52:13,363 --> 00:52:16,423 Now, the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 1180 00:52:16,423 --> 00:52:20,773 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 1181 00:52:20,773 --> 00:52:23,683 The team, the awesome, amazing, fantastic team that makes this 1182 00:52:23,683 --> 00:52:27,873 show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. 1183 00:52:28,193 --> 00:52:32,263 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you 1184 00:52:32,268 --> 00:52:35,533 would like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website 1185 00:52:35,533 --> 00:52:41,213 ecommercepodcast.net, and like I say, sign up for the newsletter while you are there. 1186 00:52:41,513 --> 00:52:43,103 Now that's it from me. 1187 00:52:43,103 --> 00:52:44,123 That's it from Ben. 1188 00:52:44,123 --> 00:52:45,953 Thank you so much for joining us. 1189 00:52:46,193 --> 00:52:47,963 Have a fantastic week wherever you are. 1190 00:52:47,993 --> 00:52:49,193 I'll see you next time. 1191 00:52:49,703 --> 00:52:50,213 Bye for now.