[00:00:00] Hannah: All right, Cassandra, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome to the Awfully Quiet Podcast.

[00:00:07] Cassandra: Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here.

[00:00:10] Hannah: Well, I have initially reached out because I saw something in the content that you share that was unconventional, different to what I've received before. And we just chatted about that. that's a pattern with me. I love unconventional, real, raw, different. Now, You are a resilience coach, the founder of Revive and Thrive Women, and you specialize in teaching how to connect with your body and regulate your nervous system to prevent burnout.

What is your story when it comes to burnout? Can you paint us a bit of a picture of what your corporate experience was like? What worked well for you? What didn't? What was it like? Okay.

[00:00:57] Cassandra: after I graduated from college, I worked for a company, for a few years and the owner of that company left to start his own business. And he took me with him. and so it was a startup. I was like the third employee. and that's where I really started my career path and was there for almost nine years.

and definitely went through all the different roles. I started as a, as an outreach representative calling like, 100 people a day. And from there, I just grew and became the director of operations originally became the, or eventually became the VP of operations. and when I was in the director role, I was in my 20s and I had really started to experience what now I know is burnout.

And at the time, I did not know that it was called burnout. I just knew that I was very unmotivated, which was unlike my myself. It was really difficult for me being the only female leader in my organization, but also the youngest. And so many of the employees and team members that I was leading were older men.

And sometimes they had a problem with that. And so I think I internalized some of that. And then and also just as a. Somebody who's always really enjoyed having a good work ethic. And, you know, I watched my dad grow his own business. He's a chef and, restaurant owner. I started working when I was 12. So it's always been this thing that I've really, like, identified myself as, like a hard worker, workhorse.

And,you know, it just went a little off balance. And so in, I think 2016, I was just in a place where I was unhappy. I was feeling, unhealthy. I was reaching for like the extra two glasses of wine at the night to, to cope and, not really connecting with my fiance at the time. My entire world was about work.

I couldn't stop thinking about work. And I think I just Woke up 1 day and realized this is not sustainable because if I'm only 26, I have a lot of years to go my career. And I think the other part too, was there was just a piece of me that knew in my heart that I was really working in a way that fell out of alignment.

I really liked growing and I liked learning, but the kind of shell of a human I had become at that point was just like, not motivated, not putting in the work, you know, doing the things like touching the mouse to look online, but then, like, laying on the couch and so it was just so out of alignment of who I was and I think that's what I was like, okay, I need to do something to make a change.

and so I started taking steps and. I can tell more about that part if you'd like to, but, yeah, that was, you know, my experience in corporate as far as, like, the burnout part. 1 of the things I talk about often now, because part of my story is that I didn't quit the job I considered for sure.

[00:03:49] Hannah: this story, it's very unconventional.

[00:03:52] Cassandra: Yeah, and I mean, I did think about it, you know, I was like, Oh, but I also just, think I've always been a bit of a self aware person. And I knew that a lot of the tendencies that I had developed that were causing burnout, like people pleasing perfectionism, internalizing a lot of the external conversations that were happening.

I knew that that was going to come with me anywhere I went. So it's like I could quit and go somewhere else. And I bet it would feel really good for a couple months, but also then I would probably just, you know, fall back into my habits of wanting to please wanting to be perfect, wanting to achieve to a point that's, you know, sacrificing my health.

So I had that awareness, thank goodness. And I decided to just start doing the inner work to heal those wounds while I stayed in the same company. Silence.

[00:04:48] Hannah: like, Oh, corporate is so toxic that, you know, it is, you know, you're prone to being burned out at one point and then you just got to leave and do something else. But I like that you say that it was a lot of the inner work that needed to happen.

And a lot of the, the work and the healing, was not necessarily just with the environment, but it was also. With yourself now, going, one step back to burnout, and you kind of mentioning that you always had. a strong work ethic, you, you know, we probably don't mind putting in the work going the extra mile.

I really resonate with that. But where I feel like it's such a fine line though. of when it can tip over into burnout, did you find a way to differentiate between, Oh, this is hard work that I'm actually enjoying that I like, and this is the type of work or this is the type of stress that is too much to handle at some point.

[00:05:42] Cassandra: Yes, you're right. It is a fine line. And I think for those of us who have this, achiever mentality, and we really take a lot of pride in the work that we do, we have to be more aware of that line because it's easy to tip over. for me personally, it was re identifying my values, what was important to me and also reframing my perception of rest and understanding that rest was a productive activity because prior it's like, Oh, I can't rest.

I can't stop. I've got to go, go, go, go. And that just is not sustainable for any human being. So I really had to look at Relaxation rest restoration, what was I doing to support my human body so that I could perform at a high level and I also had to take a look at my values and what was important to me and make sure that I wasn't stepping outside of my values.

Because I would say it is a, it is a value of me to appreciate hard work. I, I don't, I don't actually think that's a bad thing, but I think we just have to be careful of when we step out of our values to work hard to. A piece other people, because we don't feel worthy enough without that, or we need that external validation.

Those are the slippery slopes that I had to start watching for, because that was a cue to me. Like, oh, I'm actually, I'm actually not connected to my personal power when I'm working over time to make my boss like me more, you know, that that was when I started to notice, like, these tendencies had to come a little back into center.

[00:07:19] Hannah: Yeah, no, I get that. And you said, some of the cues that. we could potentially look out for our people pleasing, our perfectionism. I also heard you mention that, for you, burnout wasn't like this big, you know, glaring red flag that, you know, something happened, like something drastic. And you, you felt like, Oh, now I need an intervention.

Now I need to do things slightly differently. It was like over time and like smaller things that you noticed. talk to me about how this shows up. On a daily basis, what are some of the smaller red flags that we need to be aware of and that we should be noticing early on in the process.

[00:08:01] Cassandra: Yeah, that's a great question. And I often say like, for me personally, burnout was like death by a thousand paper cuts, like one decision after the next, after the next, after the next, that continued to pull me out of who I really was. I think some of the things that we can look out for are things like, you know, our foundational health starts to slip.

we're not eating food that energizes us. We're eating at our computer at lunch every single day. we develop habits. I mean, to be honest, some days, that's me too. And I think that's okay. It's when it becomes a habitual pattern that it's like, I actually can't leave the desk now at lunch. That's when it's like, it becomes a problem.

And one of the things I talk about a lot with my clients is finding that balance because sometimes when we're on this path of correcting or healing, we go a little too far the other direction. And we're like, I have to eat. Lunch outside under a redwood tree, hugging the tree every single day, or I'm not going to heal.

And it's like, well, actually, there's just a balance. We have to find, you know, if there's a day that we're at our computer eating lunch on those days, maybe we just have more grace with ourself and just accept that. This is a busier day. I'm not going to beat myself up. I'm going to give myself some time later today to decompress.

And that's a much. More balanced way of approaching that situation versus sometimes when we're in this journey of, like, healing from burnout or correcting and we have a day, we have to eat. We're then beating ourself up about it. And then that's just like, compounding the stress. So it's not really doing us any favors.

but, yeah, I think, you know, not really stepping away from the desk is is a red flag if it's consistent. I think also just. Having work consume you and be your only identity is something that we have to look out for.again, as somebody who had a lot of pride in the work that I was doing, I was very proud of the position I held, but it became like, the only thing about me, like, I was, I, you know, when I would go with my friends and talk with my fiance was like, work, work, work, work, work, work.

And it just totally consumed me. and again, that's like, off balance. So I think that. Yeah. As we continue to want to have a more balanced approach to our work, we really need to consider what are the things outside of work that we love to do and bring us joy. And can we make sure that we're prioritizing those things and creating space in our life for that?

Because we're not, we're not just humans that are here to work, right? We're here to live and we're here to enjoy our life outside of work as well. So that was a red flag for me. And then also, like, I wasn't sleeping very well, which I think kind of comes down to those foundational, like, Sleep food water, and for me, I would wake up every night at, like, 2 and just be, like, anxious about the day and what I had to do.

And so those were some of the cues for me. Okay.

[00:11:11] Hannah: listeners, myself included. We'll go and at least one of these and say, this might be something that I'm currently doing that, that is potentially problematic.

Now you mentioned, the sentiment of like, have something outside of work. And I, saw something on your account, along the lines of life first, and like putting life first. And I've often heard that sentiment and I really like it. It sounds really, really good of like, you know, put your life into your, you know, into your calendar before all the work meetings come in.

Now, How does that? How do you do that? Practically in your life, you also have a family now, so maybe that's part of the game as well, like where you're being pushed to put life first here and there. How do we actually make that happen?

[00:12:02] Cassandra: Yeah, I think it's. 1st, a shift in the way that we're, like, understanding our life in general, right? Because so many of us are work 1st and we have been pretty programmed to be that way. And a lot of the structures and a lot of companies are, are. Are putting value on people who put work 1st, so it's really hard for us to break away from that, but it's still possible.

And I think little steps that we can take. you know, I have some clients that work a very, I don't know if toxic is the right word, but the companies that they work at, they're like at the desk on meetings. Like, they can't necessarily put life in their 8 to 5, you know, unless they're, they're doing piece by piece.

And so, for those clients, it's like, okay, well, where can we make sure that at the end of the workday, we're taking some time to regulate ourself and you're going out and living life. You're going out and taking a walk with your family. You're going out and. going on a hike or you're, you're enjoying, you know, dinner and, and, you know, our modern life is like very busy.

So sometimes it's not possible, but it's like, where can we get these little micro moments of life to kind of slip in? when I was working as a VP of operations, I often had days that were like seven meetings in a day and they were back to back to back to back. So what I learned to do, cause I could easily look at that calendar and be like, well, there is no way I can do life.

This is just meetings all day. Which was true, but what was also true is that many of those meetings would end, let's just say 15 minutes early and the tendency at the time for me was like, oh, 15 minutes. I'm going to check my email. I'm going to scroll tick tock. I'm going to get distracted because 15 minutes goes by so fast.

I started to recognize 15 minutes times 5 throughout the day is a lot of time. So I would shut my laptop. I would do some stretches. I would go outside and allow like, sunshine to go on my face. I would just remove myself from the four walls of my office. And this helps to boost my energy. And it also helped to decompress any stress that had gathered from maybe one of the calls that I had been on.

So this is a way that you can slip these, like, micro moments of time into your day, even if you have a really packed schedule. Now, as I grew in corporate and had more autonomy and more control over my calendar, I started to really block times and allow myself permission to do things that were maybe not conventional work.

Like, I lived by a lake. I would walk my dog around the lake. Sometimes I would take meetings around the lake. And what I found was that those. Those moments of time actually helped me to be more creative when I came back to my desk. And so I would go out, take a walk. So it's like a progression. I think that a lot of us have a limiting belief.

that's like, during my work hours, I have to be. At my desk in front of my computer, no matter what, and it's like, can we find these micro moments of time where we can go live? We can go walk. We can go outside. And then we'll start to notice once we do that, how it actually helps the rest of our work day.

And we can perform at a higher level because we're not so stressed out.

[00:15:09] Hannah: I really, really like that. And it's something that I tend to do, or I think I started to really incorporate, when COVID hit. And when the world was put on pause and we all started to work remotely, and that was a time where I started to take more ownership of my personal calendar, of my work calendar, you know, you would take walking meetings all the time and it sort of became this thing where it's like, you actually have a lot more ownership.

Agency over your calendar than you thought you had or then what then you were used to beforehand. So that helped me a lot personally, and I do go out for or try to go out for a daily dog walk around lunchtime. and what, what you mentioned and what I know about you is that you work quite a lot with, yoga with breath work with connecting into your body, which I think naturally happens once you go outside and go for a walk, walk in nature.

is that something that came up for you during that time as well? Or did that come later into your life where you're like, Oh, this is actually such a great tool for me to use and to help me with, you know, whatever form of work life balance.

[00:16:20] Cassandra: Yes, so it's interesting when I was a director and I realized, like, I need to make a change what I started to what I the thing that I did to make my stand for myself was I enrolled in a yoga school and the reason why was because at the time I was having a lot of physical pain in my body. I had shoulder issues because I was like.

At the computer all day rounded forward in bad posture, you know, like we sometimes always are and I was working with a physical therapist at the time and they were like, your next step is surgery. And I was like, how is this possible? I'm in my 20s. My mom has shoulder chronic shoulder problems and she's had 3 surgeries.

So I was like, oh, my gosh, like, it's already. Starting, so I saw a ad online for a local yoga studio that I had been to, and there was a teacher coming in who specialized in alignment and shoulder alignment. And I'm like, oh, maybe I can feel my shoulder in a way, or at least try before I go under the knife.

[00:17:20] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:25] Cassandra: and what I didn't know about that teacher at the time, which I'm actually very grateful for now is that not only did she specialize in alignment, but she specialized in heart opening and her entire training was, called from head to heart. And I, I say, I'm glad I didn't know that at the time, because I think at the time that would have scared me.

I was like, I don't want this heart stuff. I just want to fix my body, you know? And. So thank goodness I didn't see that marketing, but long story short, when I started to actually do the training, it really started to expand my mind, but also my heart. And I started to understand more about myself. Why is it that I am a perfectionist?

Why is it that I'm such a people pleaser? Why is it that I'm so, Needy for this, like, external validation and. As I started to look at that and consider how some of my childhood experiences might have led to that the environment I grew up in may have shaped me in a way that had a tendency of this like.

Achiever perfect do do do and then I had the tools that I was learning in the training around breath, work and movement to help my body to. Heal in a way that felt safe, because I think sometimes when we're really disconnected from our body, we might have awareness around. Ooh, maybe I have this achiever complex because as a child, I received love by giving the a grade, you know, grade card.

But then it's kind of a scary thing to think about. So we just bypass like, oh, well, maybe we have the awareness, but then there's no action. and so I did the 200 hour yoga teacher training, which was a year. And then I was hooked. I did the 300 hour after that. I did a mentorship after that. I was in the school for 5 years and got over 1000 hours of certifications.

And it totally transformed my life and my career. And this is when I started to really thrive in the same corporate job. And I was promoted to the VP of operations. And I was able to Go into that position in such a more centered and powerful way because I had changed not only my mind, but also, like, on a cellular level, I had healed a lot of the, like, internal wounds that sometimes we have in our body.

And so it's such a powerful tool. And this is why I use it. And for so long, I felt like I had, like, 1 foot in the corporate world. And I was like this, like, corporate leader woman, and then, like, 1 foot in the yoga world, but I didn't know quite how to merge the 2.and then when I started my own business, I said, you know, I'm going to really use the tools that I've learned in my trainings to help corporate women to be more grounded, balanced, centered.

Because I know that the outcome of that is like, you really start to notice and recognize how powerful you are and that you actually can have the high pressure job and stay healthy at the same time, which is sometimes I think a limiting belief that we have, like, if we want to do so well in our career, well, we've just got to sacrifice our health.

And I just knew that wasn't true. So that's now what I help others with.

[00:20:25] Hannah: There is so much I love about that. especially because it makes you such a great role model as a VP then, because I perceive very, very few. https: otter. ai senior executives who would go out and, you know, do things like that, like, like visibly and bring that back into their work. And, I'm curious to understand if there's anything that changed for you in this, in the way that you.

would lead your teams in the way that you would collaborate at work in the way that you would show up as, you know, as a leader and as a role model, once you incorporated those elements of, of yoga, because frankly, I think a lot of people would go and say, Oh, those two worlds, they do not match. So how, how did that, match for you?

[00:21:09] Cassandra: Yeah, that's such a good question. You know, there's so many intersections. You know, one of the things that when I was dressed out, burnt out, I didn't like the way I showed up to lead my team because there was this, almost lens of negativity that I had, you know, and, I'm not a negative person.

I'm not a critical person at heart. I'm actually very compassionate person, but I lost that part of myself when the stress was just so much and the pressure was just so much. And so I would have my 1 on 1 meetings with my, my team. I'll be looking at them because I've actually always been remote even prior to the pandemic.

So I've always been on zoom and I would just be like, in the 1 on 1 meeting, but what would be happening inside my head was just like irritation. Like, why didn't this person do, you know, and I, I wouldn't necessarily project that because I had some awareness and I, and generally I think it was a good leader in that way.

But what I wasn't doing is I wasn't helping to facilitate their growth at all, because I was so in my head about my own stuff, you know, this negative spiral that I would go down. So, the yoga helped me to teach me 1, how to just call my body and notice when I was stressed. So, before I would go into a 1 on 1 meeting, I would do some breath work, you know, just sometimes 60 seconds.

So, I would just take a few deep breaths, bring my shoulders down, really get into a place of center. And then the way that I navigated those meetings was much more heart based. And I think, you know, for me, part of my story was that I was the only female leader. And I think what I actually ended up doing to quote unquote, like survive in a very male masculine kind of toxic environment at that time was I really shut off a lot of my femininity. I was like, Oh, I need to be this like intense, hardcore, cold leader. If I'm going to be valued as much as the men. and when I did, when I went through my yoga training and I embraced, like, my full masculine and feminine side, I was like, wow, I actually have a lot of power in the feminine because there's the ability to connect.

There's the ability to have compassion. And what do, what do individuals need to be nurtured in their career? They need that. They need the compassion. They need the connection. So I started to lead my meetings in a much more connected way. And I saw my team members grow a lot. Which was really awesome, because I think for me, like, that's what I wanted and that was a missing piece when I was burnt out.

So, you know, I think just learning more about who I was, but also how to regulate my body and be less stressed out allowed me to access these different parts of myself and bring those parts forth. and then another big thing, too, is, like, when we're stressed out. And in a chronic stressed out state, you know, maybe we get an email at 8 am.

That's. Challenging we're ruminating about the email. We're stressed out about the email until 2 PM. Well, when our body's in a state of stress, there's all these different things that are happening. Right? part of that is circulation and our brain is going to the hindbrain, which is like, more the survival part.

And we don't get access to our creativity or clarity. You know, it's like, we know this, right? Or when we're stressed out, we're not really thinking clearly. And so, knowing this and understanding helped me also to be more, more, I prioritize more grounding myself. Like, find me when I'm stressed out, I'm like, ooh, I'm not going to be able to be creative in this moment, so what can I do?

I can take a walk outside, I can do a breathwork practice, I can Do a grounding practice. you know, I have this tool belt now that really helps me to perform in a more aligned way at work.

It's almost like that sentiment of self leadership, which is also something that I got from you.Yes.

[00:24:49] Hannah: do I need right now? And how do I, how do I ground myself? Is that, you know, would you say the same tools apply here in terms of breathwork, in terms of spending some time outside? What, what do you usually do to ground yourself?

[00:25:04] Cassandra: So, my favorite is breath work because there's so many different types. And it's like, I would always call it my superpower because there is, you know, like, if you're taking a deep breath in and out through your nose, what you're doing is you're sending a signal to your body that it's it's safe. It's okay to be calm.

So, if I was in a meeting with my CEO, and he was going over reporting that made me stressed out, I could be talking to him, but I could be taking these deep breaths. It's like my superpower that I was using in the background and like, nobody would know. However, breath work is sometimes hard for some people who have been breathing in an anxious way for most of their life.

So, a lot of people it breath is so interesting because it's something that happens subconsciously and we can manipulate it to have a certain effect. Now, most of us, when we get stressed out, what do we do? We, our shoulders go up to our ears. We breathe in and out through our mouth and that actually helps.

It tells our body like, oops, something's not right here. So then the stress hormones are released. So we're not doing ourselves any favors. for people who have a difficult time accessing that breath work in the beginning, I recommend different grounding practices, like just simply placing your feet on the ground, feeling all four corners of your feet on the ground, realizing that you have feet, you know, cause like, when we're working, sometimes we're just like from the neck up and we have so much mental activity.

We forget we've got this body. So. So, there's a couple, I think, walking outside just being in nature, you know, there's so much research that shows that even just a quick walk outside can really benefit us and regulation. But also, it's like, collecting these tools so that you can kind of stack them on top of each other and use different ones, depending on on the moment.

So, sometimes I'll go to do a deep breath and I'm like, this is not working. This moment is too challenging. So, it's like, okay, maybe I'll do the grounding the breath work. I'll do a little ear massage, which I know, like, helps to stimulate your biggest nerve, which helps. So, there's, like, all these cool tricks that we can do.

And I think for me, what I love teaching women is, like, all of these things that I teach her from within. And oftentimes we're reaching outside of ourself for help, right? It's like, we don't feel good. So we reach for the external, whatever that is, social media, sometimes scrolling YouTube. And it's like, yeah, fancy coffees, a glass of wine, you know, it's like, I love that.

We actually have all of this. Wisdom and knowledge in our body. We just have to understand it. And then we also just have to give it the space to do its job instead of just flying through moments so quickly that our body's just like, okay, well, I'm just in a stress cycle all day because I haven't had a moment.

[00:27:44] Hannah: Yeah, no, I love that. the, the self compassion that comes with that and giving yourself grace, because I will often beat myself up for not really being able to deep to breathe deeply, in situations where I'm feeling anxious, like, I've tried, like, before big meetings, I'm like, Okay, deep breath, because I know I hear that everywhere to take deep breath, like even something like the box breathing and, holding your breath for four seconds and then exhaling longer than you inhaled.

And that just like, stresses me out in the moment because I know. I can't, or it's like, it's just not possible for me in that moment. So I would always, put even more shame on myself for like, Oh gosh, you can't, you can't even breathe deeply. So I like, I like

[00:28:28] Cassandra: You can't even calm yourself. Yeah.

[00:28:31] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:28:32] Cassandra: That's so common. It's so common for breath work to be challenging in the beginning. And I think like, that's why it's nice to have a variety of things. And then also the more consistent that you can attempt to, to do whether it's box breathing or, or conscious breath, heart breath, the more your body will get used to it.

I often tell my clients if we've been breathing in a way that's, short, shallow. Through our mouth for 20, 30 years, that's a pretty strong connection that we have in our brain. That's like, I breathe like this. So, then we try to have this new way of breathing that we know will support us, but there's a bit of a tantrum that happens in our body at 1st, because it's like, this doesn't feel natural to me because what's actually become natural is short, shallow.

Mouth breathing, so there's like this, like gap right that we have to learn how to close and I think consistency and practice and also just having so much grace for yourself and knowing this is something new. And it's okay that my body's having a tantrum as I try and I can't access the calm. A lot of people internalize that.

Oh, this means something about me. I'm just not good at breathing. I'm not I can't do breath work and. you know. I think that's why it's good to have multiple different types of tools and then also retraining your body to make your new natural something that leads to better health instead of what our current natural is.

[00:30:03] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah, no, I really like that. And I often find that when I'm in a yoga class, I love to do yoga. I don't do it as much as I would like to, but whenever I'm in that kind of space, it feels like it feels very calming and it feels very good for me to breathe deeply. And I feel like good about myself for being able to do it, but I've not really managed yet to bring that into the other aspects of my life and to bring that into a corporate job, whatever I do in my business, et cetera.

So I, I like how you say it does take a little bit of practice. and it's something that potentially doesn't happen overnight and just kind of, you know, we're on a journey.

[00:30:44] Cassandra: exactly. And I think 1 other tip I would give, because this is something that I hear so often is. One of my favorite questions to ask all for everything is like, the question I use all the time is what is possible because it, it sparks curiosity in us. And curiosity is a, is a, like, a heart based, characteristic.

We're really curious as kids, right? I have a 2 and a half year old, so she's in the, she's in the phase of. Why? Why? Why? And I'm like, Oh my gosh. But also I'm, I'm so aware that what happens to us sometimes as children when we're in this curious phase is we get told, don't ask so many questions. It doesn't matter why.

And we learned to not be so curious. And then as adults, curiosity is not something that we have developed. So, what is possible is a great question to kind of come back to and how it relates to what we were talking about is I think sometimes we, we think of our, like, let's just say our yoga practices or grounding practices.

It's like, okay, they're going to happen at the end of my day or in the beginning of my day. It's like we bookend our workday with these practices, which is great. And I started to get curious of how can I weave these practices through my workday? How can I get good at having a 10 minute meeting or a gap in my schedule and breathing or a gap in my schedule and doing, you know, some hip circles?

And as I started to weave the practices into my workday, I saw how much more energy I had because now the stressful moment that happened at 8 a. m. is being processed at 9 a. m. The stressful moment that happened at 10 is being processed at 11. Instead of what happens if we bookend, it's just like a day of stress.

8 hours of being in fight or flight mode is so taxing to our body. It's like running a marathon. It makes sense why we end our work day. And we're just like, I have nothing else to give. So I started to get curious of like, how can I start to incorporate these calm? Moments that you feel in your yoga class, but in my work day, and now that's become like, kind of my normal, but in the beginning, it was difficult.

It was like, it feels unnatural for me to leave my desk and sit down on my mat at 1045 am, you know,

[00:33:03] Hannah: But it sounds so good,

[00:33:04] Cassandra: for any listen, yeah. So I think anyone listening, it's just like, get curious around what's possible within the day to help you or self regulate. It doesn't have to be yoga. It doesn't have to be breath work.

It could be simple grounding. It could be going outside. It could be a moment of closing your eyes and being grateful, whatever you can access to kind of give your body the opportunity to process any of the stress that happens when we have these high pressure rolls.

[00:33:34] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. And I like how it's almost like, you know, benefiting us in the long term. If you say you were through these practices, you were able to have a much more healthier approach to your day and to, you know, kind of having that high capacity and higher work output at the same time as, you know, staying sane.

Potentially having more energy throughout the day and so on. So there's, there's literal benefits to us doing this and us, figuring this out.

[00:34:06] Cassandra: So, so many benefits, and I think the biggest thing, like, if. I would say for myself, the biggest benefit was that it also just taught me to really love myself again. And I had lost that because when you start to do things that that are. Resulting in your health improving and you do them consistently. You start to end your week and be like, wow, Cass, like, you did a great job. Like, wow, Cass, you really took care of yourself and it strengthens that self compassion muscle that for many of us. you know, a lot of us are coping with being a inner critic and being hard on ourself and. We have so much love to give for other people, but do we turn that love on in ourselves? And so that was, I would say, the biggest benefit is I just started to be really proud of who I was becoming.

And that helped me to love myself more because I was like, wow, this is like, I'm becoming a much more powerful human and I'm taking care of myself and I'm doing the things that feel good for me instead of completely bending over backwards for everybody else.

[00:35:11] Hannah: Yeah. That sentiment of a much more powerful human is another thing that I read. from you is like, you are barely scratching the surface of the power that is within you, of, you know, what's possible and the brilliance that you have to give. And that's something that intrigues me a lot because I think we're always up for, you know, little hacks and tips on how, you know, personal growth, how to develop ourselves, how to grow our careers and look into how can we become better.

Achieve mastery at what we do, but it's really in kind of like slowing ourselves down and like becoming really mindful and doing the inner work that a lot of that only ever gets unlocked. So it's almost like benefit from that through, you know, becoming more powerful, becoming better at what we do.

[00:36:02] Cassandra: Yes, yes, I think unfortunately, we live in a society that really values band aids and like short term, you know, it's like, everyone's like, ordering Amazon and we have a thermos like, we're very comfy. Right? We have like, a lot of short term gratification. And so. I always talk about the long game. It's like how what I'm doing today.

I might not see the result of that tomorrow, but I will in a year. I will in 6 months. And if I continue to be consistent with my, like, prioritizing my health 1st, then I get to live a long, full life. And it breaks my heart that the truth for so many, especially so many Americans are retiring at 65, and they're so sick when they retire from all of the stress that they don't even get to enjoy the life outside of work.

It's like, heck no, I do not want that to be my truth. So I'll do the work in my thirties and I'll have the long term vision of being like, you know, whatever age and like doing yoga and like enjoying my life. And, I think We have to remember that it's not always about the band aids. Those feel good in the moment, right?

it feels good in the moment to, you know, I think, sometimes, you know, do things that are going to help in that instance with that meeting. But it's like, what about the actual long term here? Right. Why is it that we're feeling so anxious going into the meeting? Can we get can we get inquisitive and curious around that?

[00:37:27] Hannah: And can we do the work to heal that? And then we've got a life forward of of healing that piece. So, Yeah. I like the sentiment of the long game brings me back to, resilience, which you teach about and which you, you help women with, right. And building that resilience and to me, similar as with, stress and burnout, resilience is almost like, there's two sides to it. Like, I was often complimented.

On my resilience and like, you know, you've really pushed through, you've made it work. you've been very resilient and you showed, you showed up and you showed that strength and that power and I was very proud of myself, but at the same time, I had to really admit that during that time when I showed up being really resilient, felt like the most draining in my career ever felt like I had was so exhausted from being so resilient for so long.

That I almost thought to myself, you know, is this really worth it? Is that what I want to be? Do I want to be resilient? Maybe you can talk to us about what resilience looks like done well, and like in a positive way, not in a toxic, unhealthy way. Dying.

[00:38:44] Cassandra: I'm going to like, I'm so tired. like, yes, I feel you. And there's a lot to unpack here. I think if we look at our history, it's like, we've been asked to be so resilient, but in a way, that's like, push, push, push, push. Just to get to just to get to equality, or just to get to where we want to be and who we want to be.

And. That has caused this, like, exhaustion to the bone resilience.when I talk about resilience, it's more heart based approach and it's through our body, right? Because our mind can be a very resilient, like our brain is very resilient, but a lot of times it's like a push type of resilience. Like, I just have to get through this.

I'm going to be strong. And we, We forgo the body or we forget about our health. Right. And that's what you said. It's like people are praising you. Oh, you're so resilient. You're doing so well. And you're smiling and like, yes, thank you. But inside you're like, I am dying. And so, for me, when I teach resilience, it's how can we become more resilient on a cellular level?

And a lot of times that actually means more rest. Which is counterintuitive to what we think of resilience when we're thinking like, go, go, go, go, be strong, be strong, be strong. But it's like, it's actually the opposite. It's actually the restoration, the rest, the healing, and then rebuilding ourself from a foundation.

That's like heart based resilience, resilience on a cellular level. One of the reasons that I love, the practice of yoga and specifically how I teach it is because I'll have, you know, a private client who Wants to be more resilient in her work because she's been promoted and she has, you know, these things that she has to do that are difficult.

And so, you know, some way that we could train resilience is like, okay, growth mindset, go get it. You can do it. Right? And that can lead to what you experienced. And for me, it's like, okay, let's have a session where we get on your yoga mat. I take you through some challenging poses, and then I teach you how to regulate your body in that challenging post.

So, if anyone's familiar with yoga, it's like. Warrior 2 can be a challenging pose. Your thigh is burning. You can't, right? So it's like, I'm going to have you be in Warrior 2 for 10 breaths, and you're going to train your body how to deeply breathe in that challenging moment. Now, on the other side of that, you have this like cellular imprint of, Ooh, challenging moment.

I was able to breathe. I built a stronger part of me in that moment. And then you take that to your job. And now you have this piece that's from, again, the instance. Side out. It's not pushing. It's not imposter syndrome. It's not fake it till you make it. It's like, I actually felt this in my body and now I get to go experience it in my job.

And so I teach a program called resilient woman. And when I do the promotion for that program, I'm always like, this is not resiliency. Like you've ever seen before. This is a heart based resiliency. And so. Because even as a leader in corporate, I went to a lot of resilience leadership trainings, and I always felt like this is off.

This, this isn't the whole picture. People can't just push, push, push, push. Right. And it's like growth mindset. Like this is all great. But like, what if you, what if you don't feel that within you first, then how are you supposed to show up as that? It's a, it's a, it's a gap. And we still do because we're very intelligent.

So we can show up in that way, but it harms us on the inside. We don't feel so good that way. Hello.

[00:42:48] Hannah: in those positions and so on. It does feel like you can do the same mentally and it does help us. So I really, really like this approach. really resonate with it.I want to take us back to at the beginning where you said that, you know, there's a, a bit of a step by step approach that.

You may not have had at the time, but you've somehow figured out to heal your burnout while staying in corporate. From today's perspective, is there anything, you know, or anything that you can leave the audience with when it comes to like, if you're in the midst of it, here's what I suggest you do. Here's where I suggest you get started.

If you feel like. Anything is off in terms of your foundational health, your sleep is not good, you know, wrong foods, hardly any sports and so on and you just feel like you could be prone to burnout.

[00:43:40] Cassandra: Yeah, I have this, like, step by step process. They take my clients through, and even even before the 1st step is. The permission that we give ourself to change. Because it's interesting being in a burnt out state is is really tough. Anybody who's been there knows it's like, not. It's not very, like, it's just all bad, right?

It, like, impacts every part of your life. You're not only burnt out at work, but now you're burnt out at home and your personal life. But also, we sometimes get a little comfortable in that because it's been the norm for us, especially those of us who are like, it was death by 1000 paper cuts. How it was for me.

so it's like, the 1st step is just giving your permission, your self permission that this is actually not that. Going to work any longer and I need to make a change and then either you're a person who can facilitate that change on your own, or you seek support, whatever that looks like for you. And I think the foundational things I always mentioned that people can start to do on their own is taking a look at.

Your sleep, what you're eating, are you moving? You know, it's like, again, we kind of forget that we're human beings and we need these things to thrive. And so can you start small? Can you give yourself. An extra hour of sleep, can you establish a sleep routine that will help to support good sleep? So sleep hygiene is something I talk a lot about and.

One tip that I can give everyone today and everyone's going to be like, I don't like this tip, but it's like, take your phone and put it away an hour before you go to sleep. It's like, and we all know, right? We all know, but it's like, the, the awareness is. No good if we don't actually take the action and the action is giving ourselves permission to change.

It's like, it might have been a coping mechanism for us to scroll and numb our brain out or watch Netflix until we pass out, but there's so much research that shows that's not going to that's not going to result in good sleep. So, it's like, the 1st step is, okay, can I just remove myself from a screen?

Maybe 15 minutes before, maybe 30 minutes, 45. Okay. Now, I'm up to an hour. And I think any of the tips that listeners take grace with yourself and know that you get to start small because sometimes. We go on this, like we try to high achieve our healing, right? We're like, okay, I'm going to work out five days a week.

I'm going to drink lemon water five days a week. I'm going to take ashwagandha. I'm going to, you know, and like, that is not, that's not realistic. So I always teach my clients just what's the one thing that you can do to be consistent, to build up your self trust because when we're consistent in something, we start to trust ourself more and then you can start to have it stack on top of that.

So it's like everybody just put their phone away 15 minutes before bed. Start today. Do it for two weeks. Your trust goes up in yourself. Now you have it stacked something else. Okay. Maybe now I'm going to put it away 15 minutes and I'm going to add a cup of tea. That's chamomile and will help me relax.

Do that two weeks. Ooh, I trust myself even more. Now I can add something else. That's, that's the model that I like to teach because again, it's not so much the short term gratification of like, Oh, I have to do everything right now. And if I don't, I fail. It's like, there's There's so much value in the, in the long game.

And so we don't, we have a whole life to live. We don't have to try to do everything on day 1. Yeah.

[00:47:08] Hannah: I really like that. And you can almost feel like how it moves you from being in a state of chaos in a state of crisis to like, getting to a place where you can get to like, clearer thoughts, like, more of that clarity of like, what is it that I really need to do with my job. What do I need to do differently in order to move myself out of this situation?

So you mentioned, look at your sleep, look at your routines, look at, you know, nurturing yourself so that you become clear of who you are and then potentially, you know, Assess the situation, see how you're gonna take it further, whether this is something that, you know, whether you need a more drastic change in your life, or you just kind of need to, you know, look to, change some smaller things.

[00:47:57] Cassandra: So, I would say this is like, step 1 of like, a of a few steps, you know, this is like, because again, we have to look at. You know, the next step is looking at our values and who we are and are we working in a way that's in alignment with that? So I take a lot of my clients through. A core values exercise, there's a lot of core values exercises online that are free that people can start to take it and get curious because the other thing that I see a lot of is that our values shift over time.

So, what may have been an alignment for us at 23 is no longer an alignment at 33. And if we don't recognize that we're going to continue working in the same way we were working at 1 point, but it's no longer a match for who we've become. So, it's like, but in order to actually have the clarity to go through a core values exercise, like, you have to sleep and drink some water, you know, so I would say, like, there's, there's definitely, like, a step of things.

And, you know, again, like, a lot of what I talk about is, like. Can we get curious about healing within the structure we're in? Right? Because I do see so many people that quit their job and then they have burnout in the 2nd job. And not only is that exhausting, but it actually hurts their image of themself even more because they're like, oh, my gosh, what's wrong with me?

Like, I quit the job. I'm in a new job. I have a new team. I like these people, but why do I feel the same? And it's like a shame spiral. That's really strong. And so it's like, can we focus on the internal things first? And then once we've We've, like, gotten some of those dials corrected. We're sleeping a little bit better.

We're drinking water. We're going outside. We're moving our body. And then at that point, if you're still in a position where you're like, this culture is just toxic, then yes, by all means go and find something else, but know that you're now a new version of yourself. Who's going to be in the new role and you're going to be able to thrive.

You're not going to slip back into burnout because you fix a lot of the things that were causing that. It's easy for us to look at our organization and or the reorganization that's happening or the meetings. And, yes, those things are stressful for sure. And it's like, can I work on some of the inner conflict 1st?

So that when I decide to make a decision, whether that's to stay or go, I'm doing it from a more aligned human and I'm not doing it from a burnt out state. Mm hmm.

[00:50:26] Hannah: really like that. And I even feel like for anyone, you know, who is, you know, closer to that or not even as close. I think that's something that everybody can take away from this terms of like, checking in. Healthier habits, or even just, you know, as you say, step by step, improving over time and making small changes all the way to, being in tune with your.

Values, what it is that you really want and always like having that kind of dial and checking, whether this is aligned or not. I like that.

[00:51:00] Cassandra: Yeah, it's just like, it's so good to understand yourself at a deep level, right? It's like to know who you are to feel centered in yourself to feel like you have connection to your personal power. These are things that will allow you to thrive. In and pivot and how exciting is that? Because I think what we're seeing a lot of now is individuals who are really interested in having multiple things that they're doing.

They've got their 9 to 5. they have a podcast. They've got their 9 to 5. they have a side business. They've got their 9 to 5. they love to paint. We, when we're more connected to ourself, we're able to hold a capacity that's greater to do all those things when we're disconnected from who we are and we're stressed out and we're burnt out.

We can barely get through the 1 thing. So it's like, how how. Like, I always think how grateful am I that I continue to do this inner work and grow my capacity to be able to run the business, have a toddler, be pregnant, you know, all the things. And it's like, if I look back, you know, my little, my younger self who was 25 and burnt out would be like, wow, I cannot believe that, that I am able to do all of that.

You know, just many years later.

[00:52:13] Hannah: No, and this gives me so much hope personally, because I think, you know, we've talked a lot about high achievers. I do consider myself somebody who's really ambitious about their career as well. And so when we talk about burnout and when we talk about work life balance, it often feels like you're going to have to take things out.

There is a certain limit to what you can achieve. There is always just a certain capacity that you have, but now you You talk about you can expand your capacity and you, you can do more and you can do multiple things at once that are in alignment with who you are and what you really want to do. You just have to, you know, do the inner work first and figure out how it is that you sustain yourself.

So to me that, ends us on a really, really high note.

[00:53:01] Cassandra: Yes, I really do believe that we are limitless, and I think if I would've said that even a few years ago, former Cassandra would've been like a little cringey listening to that . But now all of the things I've developed and seen, it's like we do have so much power. We do have so much capacity, and when we prioritize our health and slow down, which is counterintuitive to what society tells us.

We can actually start to see how we can add more plates, and this is so helpful, especially for women who are multidimensional and want to do all the things. and and don't want to feel constrained. It's like, we actually get to grow ourselves on a daily basis to become the version of ourself that gets to do all the things that fulfill us and give us purpose.

[00:53:51] Hannah: Well, amen to that, Cassandra, I'm, I've honestly taken so much away from this. I love, how, you know, this ends up being something that is not restricting us is something that really empowers us. We get to tap into our, brilliance and into, you know, not only the surface, but you know, what's really the power that's within us.

And that's a great sentiment. So thank you so much for coming on. I could take this, you know, further and further, but, yeah, I really loved the place that we got to. So, maybe you can let everyone know where they can find you, learn from you and potentially even work with you.

[00:54:31] Cassandra: Yes, so I am very active on social media. if you're on social media at thrive with cast. Is my Instagram and also my tick tock. Those are the 2 places I hang out the most and I have a website that's under development right now. However, in the link in the bio of the Instagram and the tick tock, there's different ways that you can connect with me.

There's some free trainings. I have a really awesome, free breath work training called bad ass breath work.

[00:55:01] Hannah: Oh, I will do that.

[00:55:03] Cassandra: yeah, you can download it's a video training. So I walk you through a few different types of breath work and then I tell you how you can apply it to your job. So that's available for everybody who wants that.

And that would be the best way to connect.

[00:55:19] Hannah: Wonderful. Well, Cassandra, again, thank you so much. We'll drop the links into the show notes and I'd love to see you again sometime.

[00:55:27] Cassandra: Yes, that sounds so good.