Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting youg LGBTQ Team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.

My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here.

I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.

Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat.

Most of all, I want you to remember that, that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Welcome back to Just Breathe.

I am so happy you are all here today.

Today is actually a huge, huge, huge day for the podcast and I am so excited about the episode that you are about to get to list to because it is a celebration and it is a collection of some of your most favorite guests who have been on the show in the past and who have been requested to return.

So I have three of my most favorite humans with me today on the show.

I have my husband Steve, and my son Connor, and my daughter Gray with us here on the show to talk about just everything that has happened in the past six and a half years.

Question mark.

Something like that.

But specifically, I was really thinking about this today, that when I started this podcast In November of 2019, it was pre pandemic.

It was Connor's freshman year of college.

That really seems like it was a very long time ago.

So a lot has happened even since I started this podcast.

So I'm really, really excited just to kind of get into.

We've had some brainstorming on things that we wanted to share, but really just to talk about what has gone on within our family and things that we've learned and things that we want to share with with you all, whether it's words of wisdom or funny stories or just give you a sneak peek into the banter that does occur.

And just for reference sake, my other daughter, Isabel, and my youngest son, Rowan were invited to come on the show as well.

And this is not their sweet spot, so they politely said no.

So I just didn't want anybody to think they had been not included.

So anyway, thank you all for being here.

I'm so happy.

And oh, one more thing really quick.

I just.

So everybody knows where everyone's coming from.

I'm in my usual studio, but Steve is at his office.

Grace is joining us from SCAD Savannah College of Art and design in Savannah, Georgia where they are doing a five week camp slash college classes slash experience.

And Connor is joining us from Brooklyn.

So this is just super fun.

So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here.

It's our great pleasure.

Yes.

So this, this is.

Yes, it might be a little.

As we're all trying not to talk over each other, we're either going to not talk over each other or we're going to all be talking at the same time.

Why don't we just kind of start out with a broad question or a broad just kind of reflection of just growth that we've seen in our family specifically over the past six and a half years and things that each, each of you have noticed.

Let's see.

I mean I think like especially over the past six years, particularly over the past four years, obviously living or moving out semi permanently, there's definitely been a shift in the I guess formalities or maybe like.

Yeah, I guess formalities is the word I'm looking for.

I feel like it's much less like we're just much more comfortable around each other, much more comfortable being candid, much more able to like just level with each other and come at each other with empathy versus perhaps lack of understanding.

Whereas before I think that was, there was just wasn't as much communication.

And obviously thank you to lots of individual and family therapy that no longer the case.

But yeah, I would say that's definitely been the biggest shift like being able to come home after being gone for several months and having it be just a very like picking up where we left off.

But also like it's not like I don't know, I'm.

Yeah, it's good.

I agree because I had the same thought that the overall family dynamic in the last six years has gotten a lot more relaxed.

Everybody's able to be more true to theirselves, to themselves and nobody has to hide who they are or what they're thinking.

We, we still tease each other and we laugh at each other and you know, pick on each other for things we might say.

But everyone's welcome to express themselves and be open.

And I'd say that's one of the biggest changes that happened since Connor came out was that part of it is the maturity level of all of the family members has continued to grow.

But then the other part is that mom and I have become much more open minded than when we were younger parents and just more understanding for the issues that everybody is going through.

For me it's a little different because six and a half years ago, I was, like, 11, so there's not much I can speak to about how our family was then.

But I do know that in the past six and a half years, it has been a very, like, comforting place.

And no one's really afraid to talk about certain things where it.

It's made a lot of parts about growing up easier because we can have these conversations, not only, like, with my, like, parents, but, like, also with siblings, because of kind of everything.

We were closer than.

I think a lot of other people can say that they are with their family.

Do you think that's why?

Because people do ask, you know, do your kids get along or why?

Why do your kids all get along so well?

And my answer is, typically, well, they've been through a lot together, and we've all been through a lot together, and.

But would you give another answer to that?

I don't know about Connor, but I would say that definitely has a big part of it.

And just, like, especially in the past few years, we kind of, like, we've been growing up a lot like Connor and Isabella in college.

So there is that opportunity for Rowan and I to get closer and get along more because of, like, that kind of just closer relationship when we're both the only ones at home.

But because we went through so much together, we kind of didn't have to get.

Go through the point of trying to understand each other.

Like, we were kind of already on the same page.

So that made it a lot easier, I guess.

Yeah, I'd agree.

I think.

Yeah, like, the collective experience, I'd say, especially kind of the years, two years leading up to me leaving for college, I think were particularly challenging for everyone involved.

And then subsequently, Covid Both provided, I think, a lot of time of being and, yes, being, like, very challenging times for everyone, not just me.

I think it's been something for everyone at one point or another, but being able to get over those things.

And again, thank you to communication and to therapy and to all of that.

But then now, the past couple of years, I think I've been more.

Just like I said, I mean, it hasn't been for me, but, like, with you guys having different dynamics at home with, like, you know, that's like, kind of allowed different relationships to form.

But then also for those of us who haven't been home, I.

E Is Isabel and I.

And I guess right now, you.

You know, the absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.

So I think there's a level of, like, then when we come back, there's a different appreciation for that family dynamic.

So, yeah, I don't think I answered.

The original question, but I think that was.

I think that was very good.

I mean, it was really just meant to kind of lead.

Lead the conversation somewhere.

So that.

That is.

Okay.

How do you think that.

Or what would be your reflection on how you've grown?

And you.

You know, everybody's kind of already said this a little bit, but how you've grown individually or kind of as and more than just kind of the obvious ways of.

Well, I've gotten older.

What are.

What are some of the things that just come right to mind?

Dad, do you want to go first?

Sure.

I would say in the last six years, six and a half years, the most or the biggest area that I've changed or grown is my approach and viewpoint of social issues.

Obviously, I've become incredibly concerned about LGBTQ issues and all that, but even beyond that, even more than that, just social issues in general that possibly in the past I thought was a very black and white type of decision.

I realize so much in the world is gray, and that compromise is actually probably the best thing, which unfortunately, nowadays doesn't seem to ever happen.

But it's definitely something that has.

My mind has changed completely.

You know, a lot of people, a lot of the listeners have been brought up to think one way.

That's how my parents taught me.

That's what I did forever.

And it's good to be able to change that mindset and realize I can.

I can discover new things and I can understand new viewpoints and not be well.

That's the way we've always done it.

So that's the way it has to stay.

So that would be it.

Love that.

I guess for me, the biggest over the past six years, I guess, like, you know, especially as it relates to the topics of this podcast.

You know, I think my relation, my understanding of my relationship to queerness has definitely continued to evolve.

And that was, like, always the thing, like, you know, that therapists would say, especially, like, when I first came out, it's like, oh, yeah, that's like, you know, you came out, but that's, like, just the first step.

No, I think I really fully grasped the validity of that statement, I guess, because it really has just continued to be, you know, my understanding of what being gay.

But more, I guess I say now I say, like, queer more than gay, just because I think it is such a broader community that I find connection to.

And, you know, the first couple years, I had a very narrow viewpoint of, like, what it meant to be gay and what being gay could be.

And I think that.

That, you know, especially after coming to New York and being able to surround myself with all these different.

This entire, you know, a very broad range, a very broad spectrum of the queer experience, it's really just showing me that it's, like, so much more than just, like, one thing.

Like, it's not just sexuality, it's not just gender.

Like, it really, you know, given the opportunity, can permeate every aspect of your life.

And, yeah, it's just something that I could think in turn, I've come to be.

Just be so very grateful for.

Like, it's what I love most about myself.

So, yeah, it's great.

I don't know, I feel like there's, like, a lot of things that I could probably say I've grown, but I think one of the main ways I've changed in the past few years is, like, comfort in who I am, or, like, I guess, pride, you could say, in who I am.

And, like, a lot of that comes from, like, watching Connor go through kind of everything he's been through and kind of taking it into my own life and figuring it out.

Because I was a very different person, obviously, in sixth grade.

And now I've learned a lot of new things about myself and, like, I'm happy to say, like, I'm comfortable with all of those aspects.

And I don't know if I was ever mad at myself in the beginning, but I was definitely not in understanding.

And being able to look up to Connor in these scenarios was always, like.

I say I owe a lot of, like, who I am to him because I just.

I watch everyone and that's, I think, how I've changed a lot just by putting different things into practice.

Love that.

And I think, you know, not to.

I don't know if kudos is the appropriate term because obviously it's just a matter of.

But yeah, kudos to, like, the fact that, you know, you've started this journey that much earlier.

And obviously that's like, something that's been afforded partially in fact, by, like, you know, I'm glad that I can be a role model and obviously mom and dad and everyone else in my family being incredibly supportive.

But, like, obviously it's still the, you know, it's impressive that at an even younger age at.

I'm not going to do the math right now, but at an earlier age, you were, you know, willing to take that first step.

That can be incredibly scary.

So, yes, just appreciate all of that.

What about you, mom.

What I was going to say.

What about the host?

Well, I just want to say something about that, too.

I think that it has been so much fun to, you know, when I do allow myself to just observe and not, you know, get involved or overthink or, you know, do do all the things that a mom does, I find myself very taken by, well, both of you.

But it.

In this very specific situation, every opportunity you've had, Gray to learn, you have watched Connor.

You have observed every step.

And I think way before any of us realized that you were observing him and that that was kind of your, like, one of your, I don't know, superpowers.

Your go to is like, you're very good at, like, kind of taking everything in and then really making very good decisions based on that information that you've gathered.

And I.

One of the things I always go back to is when you had the opportunity to go to Compass for those couple of weeks and you would talk to Connor about it, and Connor had said, make the most of it.

Have an open mind.

This is an opportunity.

You can either hate it and fight it, or you can take this as an opportunity to learn.

And when you, like, just soaked it in and your maturity is, you know, way beyond your years, not only in the way that you see things and approach things and handle things, but just in your, like, ability to be still and to observe.

So that would be my kind of observation of your growth over the past six and a half years.

Not to say that that maybe wouldn't have happened, because I think, you know, that's pieces of.

That is inherently who you are.

But certainly I think, you know, having being able to really explore and be comfortable enough to talk about, you know, who you are and, you know, think about it and talk about it with Connor, talk about it with dad and me and Isabel and Rowan.

So I love that.

And.

And then I just, you know, I go back to this a lot with you, Connor.

You know, I think it was.

It is the.

It's the both.

And like, I.

It always does make me sad thinking that you knew for as long as you knew before you said anything.

And I'm so grateful that you did when you did and that, I mean, like, you just.

You taking that, like, one step, like, even though like a million things blew up around it.

I mean, it completely changed the trajectory of each of our lives and our family.

So in a very positive way eventually, in case you all didn't get that.

Yeah.

I mean, it's.

When I think about.

I just get so, like, it is extraordinary to me.

And I was even saying today I was having coffee with Kate and she was even remarking, you know, having been along this journey with us, like, you know how I feel and kind of, you know, like dad had just said, like I would say that's.

It's hard for me to pick one.

One way that I've grown because I feel like I am a vastly different human being than I was seven years ago.

But, you know, I was like, I think I get.

So for me, I think one of the most exciting things about it is, like, all of a sudden I had permission to connect to me instead of, like, connecting outwards.

Right.

So, like, always trying to be like, oh, well, this is.

This is what this person says I should be, or this is what this thing says I need to do.

And instead being like, that's all noise and that's not me.

Like, I need to listen here.

And.

And I think that was one of the biggest things that, you know, it's taken time and a lot of work, but I think that's been the biggest growth for me is to be like, this is.

This is who I am.

This is what I think.

This is what I believe.

This is my family.

Don't mess with them.

I think it was always like that.

But I mean, I'm really like that now, so watch out.

Love it.

Yes.

Yes.

I am officially 20 minutes in and I've already cried, so that's okay.

Yeah, I don't think we were.

We weren't surprised.

Actually.

I'm surprised.

I haven't.

I know.

Episode 50, I believe, was the one I was on.

Which, by the way, 50 more and I.

And I get to come back.

Needs to have been at least a number of times between that.

Just have to ask.

Well, he wants you to ask him.

He likes it.

He does.

I think he's going to retire just so he can be the co.

Host.

There you go.

No, then I'd have to read books that people wrote.

They're probably all on audio.

Yeah, there you go.

Right.

I'll read them to you.

I'll give you the.

The one page, like Cliff Notes version.

Yeah, yeah.

That's all you need.

Oh, my gosh.

So if you could just pick one singular thing that you wish you would have known seven years ago, what would it be?

I can go first, but I have two crazy.

All right, go nuts.

You can do it.

And actually, if you listen to the one episode I was in, I'm sure this was the advice I gave then, too.

Validation.

Validating.

Somebody.

It took me first, it took me a good year to even understand what it meant, but then years of practice, and I'm pretty decent at it now.

But the key was, and I still am a very positive person and very.

The glass is half full.

But I would portray that on every conversation that anybody was having with me.

If Connor was struggling, I would tell him the silver lining or.

But the bright side is, and I realized, thanks to many of the therapists involved at the beginning, that Connor didn't need me to try to fix it or tell him what was good about it.

He just needed me to actually say, I.

I heard him, I understand him.

If I might have some suggestion after, that's fine.

But to actually at least just validate what he was feeling and what he was going through.

The same one with all of the kids now and even.

Even mom, although that's sometimes the hardest of them.

I just need you to hear me.

That's it.

Well, no, I can hear.

It's just sometimes I just can't agree.

But anyway, so that was the biggest thing that I learned in the process of all of this.

And then the other is that especially for all of the dads out there, and I just thought I was strong enough to not need help.

And eventually, it eventually became very clear that I did need some help, some therapy, someone to talk to, somebody to just let you know, instead of bottling everything up.

And a good two years in, I think it was before I finally agreed.

And that was.

It was only because things became incredibly clear to me that I couldn't just do this on my own.

And I still don't see Ed very often, like, very regularly.

But it is still great to once a month, whatever it is, just kind of check in and have somebody to bounce things off of.

So therapy, professional help is incredibly important.

That is.

Yeah, I think that's great.

I think definitely the destigmatizing of these things that, like, especially at this point in 2023, like, it is such a ridiculous thing to still hold on to some sort of reservation about it in that capacity that it's like, you know, it's not for her men or whatever.

But.

Yeah.

Or it means you're broken.

Right?

Right.

Or it means you're weak or.

Right.

All of the different things.

So, yes, I think that's all of this good to talk about it in a positive way and so people understand it.

I think that a lot of times people don't really understand that.

I mean, at the end of the day, it's an Objective person who you can say anything to and they're not going to judge you.

And it's an objective person outside of your people.

Right, Right.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

They have no stake in the.

Whatever.

Exactly.

For me, the biggest thing that I think, you know, really sticking with the branding here, but.

And I guess I kind of appreciated it to some capacity to some extent earlier on, but, like, truly kind of grasping the concept of impermanence.

Right.

Like, you know, that was obviously what I chose.

Here's my first tattoo when I turned 18.

And before that, it was my, like, this is, like, what I took from my.

My extended therapy session junior year.

And, you know, that's, you know, then also what I made my whole, like, senior project.

That's what I titled it.

And, yeah, I just, like.

I don't know, I think especially, like, in connection to my senior project, because that was something where recently I was in a very retrospective HUD space, too, because I was, you know, just thinking a lot, reflecting a lot about, like, the experiences that had shaped me and the person I am today.

And, like, honestly, all the experiences that I could, like, think of had kind of happened after I came out.

That was obviously something that, like, as mentioned, you know, caused a shift in our life paths in some capacity.

But, like, you know, a lot of the stuff that happened, like, there were lots of good and lots of bad that kind of went into it over the past six, seven years, but kind of, like, I wish I had known from the start that, like.

Or appreciated from the start that, like, you know, none of these things are, like, their effects are impermanent.

The situations themselves are impermanent.

Everything kind of, like, comes to an end.

And, like, that's a good thing because, I don't know, I think there was just a lot of bad stuff that was going on.

It's like, being able to appreciate that, like, this two shall pass would have been comforting because, again, like, it's not something where, like, I regret anything that happened or, like, would do anything differently because it's, like, led me to the point I'm at today.

And I'm, like, very appreciative at that point, but, like, yeah, just knowing that it's.

I think that makes a ton of sense.

Connor, I think, like, kind of had you, especially early on, really been able to grasp that concept of impermanence, I think that would have been very comforting for you.

Yeah, this moment in time is really hard, and I'm really struggling, but it is a moment in time.

It is not for always, so.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I love that.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know, like, what one thing I would change, I guess, like, from the beginning or I guess I don't know when, but I would.

I think I held a lot of anger towards the situation, but I wish I could, like, remind myself I was 11, 12, you know, so the things that I knew or didn't know were for the best.

And, yeah, that was.

It was a tough thing for me to grasp for a while.

I think I've had many conversations with mom about that, but I definitely see it now.

And I don't know, even, like, if someone.

If you're going through something where you feel like you're being like you're not getting all the information, like, at the same time, there might be a good reason, you know, not that, like, there are some scenarios where you should know, but there's also a lot of things are good for you, and I didn't need to know everything, so.

Ignorance is bliss.

It really is.

Oh, my goodness.

That is a really, really good one.

I love.

I love all of that.

I think what I would have liked to have known, I would have liked to have been better educated.

Like, I would have liked to have known more about how, like, immediately how I could support Connor and how to recognize things and how I know this is more than one thing, but it's kind of a general.

Like, I just.

When I think back and I think, you know, all the stuff that I know now, I would.

I would take like a fraction of that because I just think that, you know, I look back and I think, oh, my goodness, had I known, had we known.

Right.

That just would have made that initial.

Those initial pieces of the journey so much easier, so much more smooth.

Perhaps not quite as, you know, scary or anxiety inducing or, you know, all the things.

So I think that that is mine and that, you know, is also what drives me to do this and to do what I do.

So, yeah, I was going to say, I wish there were just Breathe podcast back then.

And I wish.

I wish Chrysalis Mama was around.

Would have been a lot easier to get an education on this stuff.

Yeah, that's true.

Yes.

And I think too, like, for, you know, you and I were like, you know, it is definitely something where you're kind of like, I want to learn on my own.

Right.

I mean, there are a lot of questions where, you know, like, we would want to talk about it either together or as a family, but not necessarily, like, in a huge group setting, even though we did that too But I think that's, you know, one of the things where it's, like, really nice, like, had we been able to find, you know, information where we could all just, like, sit together or be like, here, go, you know, check out this link and.

Or go listen to this podcast, or, you know, this.

This is really great over here.

And I, you know, I do also think it's.

In the past six, seven years, there has been so much more information that has been much more readily available.

So that is good also.

That would be mine.

Okay, so I would love, and I think everyone would love to know what advice you would give to either a kid coming out to a family who was kind of, you know, way earlier in their journey, what are just words of wisdom and, and thinking too, like, sorry, but taking into account kind of where we are today.

I mean, not to bring it down, but in a social, political sense, like, what are the words of.

Of wisdom that you would give?

Kind of taking that into account as well.

That just got deeper, taking into account.

And the compact, like, and like.

Well, like, as you're giving.

So, okay, for example, I've been.

This is a question I've actually been asking a number of guests recently as, like, kind of the final question of the interview of the show.

And one of the things that I found extremely interesting is that least two of them, if not three, their first thing they have said is, make sure that you're safe before you even decide to come out.

Make sure that your home is safe, that your environment is safe.

And I thought that is such a great answer considering.

And I think too, like, kind of geographically considering where you are.

So that is the example that.

And I just, I think it is.

Obviously, you know, there's so many pieces, but this is more of like a general, like, you know, if somebody came to you and said, hey, my.

My kid just came out, like, can you give any words of wisdom?

What would it be?

Got it.

Well, Dad, I thought you had something, and I cut you off.

You want me to go first?

Well.

I can't say that it's changed from, like, with the current environment of society.

It's still the same.

If you have a gut feeling, trust your gut.

Don't just take the easy way out.

If you see or sense that something's upsetting your child or affecting your child, and you say, is everything okay?

And they say, everything's fine.

And you're like, okay, great, now I can leave.

Because I've.

I've asked the question.

I'm off the hook.

If, you know Something's wrong.

Dig deeper.

Don't let it just go.

When you feel like there's something bigger going on.

Love that.

Yeah.

I've got a different version of the question for Grace to try to answer.

What would.

What advice would you give families who have one of the children is coming out or came out, but they have younger siblings?

How to handle it with the young?

Like, what advice do you give to handle it with the younger siblings?

When do you tell them?

Do you feel like there was a right and wrong for the way we explained everything to you?

I mean, obviously, I think it's up to the person that is queer or whatever they are, and, like, they can come out kind of whenever.

Like, it feels right to them.

And, I mean, I can't really speak for Rowan.

I think the way that you guys did it was, like, handled really well.

I don't think I'll ever forget that tea shop.

I think at that point, at least, I knew something like that.

I knew there was something that I didn't know that you guys did know.

So at that point, when you start to realize that, like, there's an age where they.

Where we are starting to understand, and if the person who is the one coming out is comfortable with it, letting them know, like, the younger kids know as soon as possible or trying to start educating them as soon as possible will, you know, make it an easier transition.

And I think educating is always.

Even if there isn't a.

Another queer sibling in the house, educate your children, because just from a very young age, it should be something that's taught as if it's like learning your Alphabet, learning your colors, anything like that.

There shouldn't be much of, like, a difference.

And that makes it so much less of a.

Like, a burden or a process to come out or to explain when it's like a.

I mean, Rowan, like, no one comes out to me as straight, so it's like, you wouldn't really have to have it coming out if they already have everything kind of intertwined, I guess.

Very well articulated.

Yeah, I agree.

I think, you know, I think there is that element of, like, yeah, like, it should be this way.

And, like, there's absolutely no trying to tie a moral.

A moral or ethical or political, you know, connotation to sexuality and gender in the way that it has in today's world.

I think obviously skews it in a way that, like, you know, Grace and I didn't grow up in a place where we're really confronted with that.

Like, I think, you know, we objectively are quite fortunate to grow up in the place that we grew up, you know, yes, there are still, you know, some bad eggs, but that can be said about anywhere.

But, like, generally speaking, a pretty blue area.

And now I've moved to, you know, one of the gayest places in the world.

So, you know, my perspective, I personally come from anything.

Grace, I can kind of say sort of as well come from, like, perspectives of not really having that outside being very fortunate to not have to deal with that outside factor of.

Well, you know, what if, you know, people in my school or people in my neighborhood or people in my household are actively against queer people as a political ideology.

And therefore, you know, with all of today's politics, that has obviously much darker implications, scarier implications.

And that's why.

Yeah, like, what you'd said originally about there being a.

Sorry, I know we're running time, but there being, you know, making sure you're safe is obviously first priority.

But I would say for, like, me coming from a place of, like, being very lucky and having a very different experience having.

I think it's important to.

For there to be a balance and like, I guess, boundaries for.

Or, like, respecting the person who's coming out, like, just like boundaries with relation to sexuality.

Just because it is something that is so deeply personal that, like, while there is absolutely an aspect of, like, how does this impact the family, how does this impact our relationships?

First, I think, has to come take a very core understanding of that person's, like, relationships themselves.

And I think it can be really hard to articulate anything outside of that before.

So, yeah, just like, you know, recognizing that it's like, it is their process, you know, it's.

They will do it at their pace and, like, you can't really force it.

So.

Yeah, totally.

So I think kind of to your point, Connor, and actually both to what you and Grace said, which I really, really like because I typically, when people ask me this question when I'm being interviewed, the answer that I will often give because it's often asked as, what is your advice to parents and parents who just had a child come out?

And my answer is, typically, make sure they know they are loved, unconditional love this kid, no matter what.

But there's so much more to that that I always kind of want to add.

But, you know, I typically am like, trying to, you know, you gotta start somewhere and then go.

And one of the things that really has.

I've been thinking about a lot lately is be willing to be uncomfortable.

Be.

To have either the uncomfortable Conversations to your point just now about respecting the boundaries like that is.

That's uncomfortable for a parent to not know everything and to know when you've hit that boundary and to back off, and that takes a little bit of practice and that.

That is uncomfortable.

So be uncomfortable.

Right.

Be uncomfortable to what you said, Steve, to.

When you know something is wrong.

The easy thing is to just.

Okay, well, I asked.

Okay, I'm done now.

Check.

Done.

I did.

I did it.

Your gut, as we learned all of us, your intuition will.

Does not stop.

It just gets louder and more annoying and shows up in a thousand different ways, telling you there's something going on and it gets progressively more uncomfortable.

Right.

So embrace that being uncomfortable and ask those questions that you may feel like, I don't want to ask this, but you need to ask or bring up the conversations, because I know one of the things early on, had we been able to have conversations in our house in a way that was so much more open and just easy about sex, there would have been so many questions that would have been, you know, answered for you earlier on and for everyone earlier on, and we would have learned things that we needed to know earlier on had we been willing to be uncomfortable way earlier.

Right.

So just get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

It's awesome.

Settle into the chaos.

Battle into the chaos.

That's right.

Exactly.

Was that.

Was that number two or number three?

The third.

Yes.

They got to New York.

Yeah.

But yes, I agree.

So as we kind of finish up, is there anything that either of you just kind of want to throw out there as a.

Either reflection or celebration or.

I mean, let's just wait quick.

Before.

Before either of you weigh in, can we just talk about.

For the fact.

The fact that you just graduated.

We've not talked about that yet on the podcast, so this is exciting.

Cum laude with honors.

Yes, laude with honors from nyu.

With that, I have personally named motion graphics engineering.

But that is so not what it's called.

Connor, can you.

It's.

Yeah, it kind of gets the gist of it.

Right.

Interactive design and media.

I have it on a post.

It's a lot of adjectives.

And yeah, we'll hopefully get a motion design job.

Currently unemployed.

Which sends shivers down dad's spine.

If any listeners are in the market for motion graphics.

Just any job, just.

You know, throw my uber talented.

I mean, let me know.

I will send you his portfolio.

Yeah, Steve and I are actively sending it to as many people as we can.

It is.

He is incredibly talented.

And.

And I'm not just Saying that because I'm his mom.

So I'm just like, first, he does.

All of the video work for Hester.

Painting and decorating.

Yeah.

Go to our website.

You'll see.

Plugging everything now we've gotten all the plugs.

This is good.

We'll put a link in the description.

Yes.

There'll be a link in the show notes for everything mentioned today.

Oh, my goodness.

So anyways, and then while we're in the.

In the celebrating people mode, I would like to celebrate you, Heather.

This is amazing, what you've put together over these four years or whatever it's been.

The podcast is incredible.

100 is amazing.

The book that you're writing is going to be amazing.

Everything you do, I am incredibly proud of.

And you should be celebrated for everything you've done to help parents, families, teens that are coming out.

The whole process, it's.

It's incredible.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You had that written down.

Good thing you recorded it.

Yeah.

I'm just gonna play that over and over again.

Is huge.

Very exciting.

Extraordinary.

Can't wait for 200, right?

Well, it'll come a lot faster now that I'm.

I'm doing weekly episodes.

That might be the next one I'm invited on to.

Oh, my goodness.

Connor.

No, you're not gonna be there till 500.

Sorry.

At least three more times before you get to come on.

The reviews have come in and they want no more.

Steve, we'll do a poll.

Yeah.

The focus group said cut the dad.

He cries a lot.

Oh, my goodness.

Oh, my goodness.

So, all right, so anything.

Anything else that you just want to add at the.

To close us up to finish off this amazing episode that I'm so delighted to put out there.

That is it.

Thanks for listening.

Yeah.

Thank you for listening.

Yeah.

Thank you for having us on and asking for opinion on these things.

Yeah.

Thanks for caring enough about your family to listen.

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, there we go.

Look at that.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, thank you both for being.

Being here because you are fan favorites and.

And I love the opportunity to actually see you, Connor, because just so everybody knows, Connor does not do FaceTime.

He does phone.

Yeah.

Absolutely not.

I get to see his gorgeous face every few months now, and I miss it.

So this.

And no, I just appreciate you both taking time out of your days and being a part of this podcast, because if it weren't for you, this would not be here.

So thank you.

My utmost pleasure.

Thank you for wanted me to be a part of it.

Okay.

Love you.

Thank you for listening today.

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And remember that you are not alone on this journey.

Until next time n.