I've had far too many clients who've gone

down the visibility track.

They're trying to build all these different platforms and they get

overwhelmed, exhausted, burnt out.

You don't need 10,000, a hundred thousand followers to have a great business.

Everyone has a unique method to their expertise.

And that becomes your calling card and positions you as the go-to choice.

Welcome to Architecture Business Club, the show that helps

you build a better business in architecture so you can enjoy more

freedom, flexibility, and fulfillment.

If you're joining us for the first time, don't forget to hit

the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode.

Susanna Ray is the UK's authority architect and creator of the Spark process

dedicated to transforming brilliant but overwhelmed service providers

into clear, confident authorities with scalable impact to access Susanna's

latest free resources to help.

Position you as the go-to expert.

Head over to susanna ray.com/links or just click the link in the show notes.

Susanna, welcome to Architecture Business Club.

Thank you, John, for having me.

Uh, it's great to have you here.

Great to have you here on this.

Um, what's shaping up to be one of the hottest days of the

year at the time of recording.

We'll get through it together without melting, hopefully.

Oh, totally.

People normally pay thousands to go and get weather like

this, so I'm like, bring it on.

Oh, that's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm, uh, I'm not com I'm not complaining, but I would, I, I'd enjoy it more

if I was, like, if we were recording this, maybe under like a shaded palm

tree with some nice cold drinks.

So, uh, maybe we organize that for the next time we chat.

Susanna, I'm interested, before we get into our topic, can you tell me a bit

about what you like to do outside of work?

Outside of work, I think because my brain is always on

the go, so much, what I love to do is literally just go out for walks

and dare I say this on a podcast, I don't listen to anything on a walk.

I, well, what I listen to is the birds, the nature.

I see everything around me, and if I have the chance to actually get by the sea,

I, I mean, which I was the other weekend.

I just get this massive grin on my face when you know the sun's shining, I'm

hearing the waves sort of come in, and if it's particularly windy or blustery,

I actually quite like that as well.

If it gets too hot, I'm, you're more likely to find me in the shade.

But outside of work, I'm more about the downtime and.

When I can, you know, that's my every day.

But my secret or not so secret passion is also musical theater.

So you do get me quite regularly heading to musical shows and yeah.

And I've now got two Offspring who at very into musical theater as a

result, because I've been taking them to them since they were teeny.

And I started, I think with Mary Poppins when I was four years old and memorizing.

The whole script, the all the songs at the age of four, and it's

just continued throughout my life.

So yeah, 50 years later, musicals are still my passion outside of work.

Oh, you really caught the book.

Can you re recall the last performance that you went to see?

I can indeed, uh, in London, I went to see the curious case

of Benjamin Button, the musical on stage.

And I know it's a limited run, so I'm not sure how much longer it's going to be.

It was brilliantly staged.

It was based in a Cornish town, and it was one of these shows that

there's 12 people on stage and they are just all so talented.

You know, they were literally throwing musical instruments between each other.

It wasn't like they all had one instrument.

They could all sing, they could all dance, and their acting was just so powerful.

So that is one that if people are going, oh, I haven't been to that.

I would recommend actually is a real feel good as well.

Oh, that sounds good.

Thumbs up for that show then I'll, uh, add that one to the list.

Yeah, you might have to be quick if you wanna see it this year.

'cause I've got a feeling it's only a limited summer run.

Oh, right, okay.

Need to go and check the dates out soon then.

So we are going to talk about how to position yourself as the

go-to choice in your market.

This is gonna be a really, really interesting episode, which

I've been looking forward to.

You were known as the authority architect.

Could you clarify?

What that means because it's not the traditional kind of architect

that we've, you know, we'd normally may talk to on this show.

Yeah, absolutely.

And when you invited me on, I was thinking, oh, what, what

are people thinking about this?

And to put it really simply is I am a positioning expert for those

wanting to create their authority.

Therefore, we build and design and create their authority.

The authority architect, and this is all around the fact that a lot of people

say to me, oh, that's incredibly niche.

And it is, and that isn't.

I mean, I've had 20 plus years experience behind me in business marketing and

design, because I live actually at this intersection of all three of these.

I've been to art school as much as I've been to business school.

And so for me it's really interesting and it's about this element that

what I see and hear a lot of, and I'm sure the listeners do as well,

is a lot of people when it comes to positioning, it's all about visibility.

Visibility.

You've gotta be on socials, you've gotta be everywhere.

And in fact, most business owners I know, in fact, most are it

like, do I have to show my faith?

Do I have to be out there?

And I'm very much like the antithesis of that in one way because I'm about building

your authority, your credibility and what that looks like first before your.

Everywhere online.

And so I flip this over and call it the authority inversion

Principle for exactly that reason.

'cause I feel building your authority is far more important than

a first step over the visibility.

'cause I've had far too many clients who've

gone down the visibility track.

They're trying to build all these different platforms and they get

overwhelmed, exhausted, burnt out.

Also, at the end of the day, they've quite often been building the

wrong audience in the wrong space.

And that's because they haven't established really what do they

want to be the authority in?

What do they want to be that go-to expert in?

And that's a slightly long answer to why I'm called the authority ex architect.

Okay, so this approach is rather than just.

Putting yourself out there because maybe you've heard, oh,

I here I need to be more visible.

I need to show up.

I need to be seen as an authority and just trying to be everywhere all at once.

And all those different places, particularly on social media.

This is about going, no, we don't gonna do that first.

We're gonna take a step back and we are gonna figure out what it is

you really want to be known for.

What?

What are you going to be?

The authority for before you start doing all that showing up if you even

need to do it to that extent, because actually a lot of people don't.

I don't.

I, well, that's my opinion anyway, that

Yeah, no, very much so.

And in fact, I'm in the process of writing my second book where I'm

going to be sharing my authority Spark process, which is five steps.

And really simply, it does start with the self.

So yes, we look inward, you know?

What is your expertise?

What is your energy?

What is your experience?

What does that look like?

And then we look at what is unique about you, your premise.

And we'll dig into that a little bit more in this episode.

'cause that really is quite key to seeing yourself as a go-to choice.

But then the A of Spark is about the art.

I'm really about, and I know like architects who will be listening as well.

You're good at drawing things out.

We need to draw out your expertise for people to understand it.

And only at step four is reach.

R is for reach, and that is when we want to.

Start extending that reach and the visibility.

But as you said, John, absolutely with the right person, you can have

a fantastic business with only 100 people in your direct influence.

You don't need 10,000, a hundred thousand followers to have a great business.

And then the K of Spark is kudos, which is all about your credibility.

The qualifications, the awards, the relationships and everything else

that we build up on that top layer.

And that's about long lasting authority is when you get to the K point.

But absolutely, it all starts with yourself and what you've done.

And it's really interesting how many people think, oh, but I'm just the

same as like Joe Blogs next door.

No, everyone is really unique in terms of how they view things.

Yeah, I think, I think you're spot on there.

I.

There's gonna be a lot of people listening, architects and architectural

technologists, designers that often they're following a fairly, they

may feel like their process is, is just the same as other practices.

They, well, well, you know, we're.

We're an our RIBA practice and we are following the RIBA

plan of work on our projects.

But there's so much more to it the way that individuals and

individual businesses do operate.

You know, that there's, there's more to it than just the RIBA plan of work for sure.

So, when you are already in a specific niche, like being an

architect or architectural designer.

How do you recommend that you, we position ourselves as the go-to

choice in the eyes of our clients.

I love this question so much, mainly because it's one

that clients always come to me with and they've been pulling their hair

out and they're like going, ah.

And then normally, because they've also been stuck in demographics and.

That's, that's like old school.

That's like 1980s to be honest.

Demographics, even psychographics, it's getting a bit closer.

But really, if you want to be this go-to expert for your clients, there's three

components that I recommend you look at.

And I know we're not gonna have time to dig into them all,

but we will with one of them.

So the first is your signature method.

So that's.

How your unique angle and how you look at things in your space, which

actually we will touch on a little, but equally, your specific offers.

Because even as from one architect to the next, you will have specialties

and areas that you particularly do and who you like to serve.

And then the third is the distinctive content.

So this is about becoming that recognized voice.

The authority brand, and it's about sharing your views.

So it goes beyond just your internal, the method and the offers is internal,

but then it's like, what are you going to speak about when people are interested?

You know, if you got invited to.

A panel discussion and then people are saying, well, how should we

make this new housing development?

And what sort of styles, what would your natural answers be

and what would that look like?

So there's these three areas, which are your method, your

offers, and your content.

And it's a combination of method and content that makes

it particularly distinctive.

Mm. I love that.

I love that.

Yeah.

Okay, so we've got, you mentioned that there was three parts there.

So there was the method, so your way of doing things.

There was the offer, so your unique offers that you put together specifically for

your, your clients, your audience, which.

May be very different.

Like on the face of it, you might think, oh, we're doing the same thing.

It's architectural services, but it's not gonna be it.

Like when you really start digging into this, that there's definitely

gonna be things that you do that are different to the practice down the road.

For sure.

You mentioned there that.

They perhaps have particular specialisms.

Within architecture, there might be certain industries that they

have a specialism or focus in or a particular skill set that they have.

Maybe it could be passive house or low energy design using local

materials, that sort of thing.

So yeah, I can see, I can definitely see how that would work.

And the third one you mentioned was the.

The distinctive content.

And when we're talking about content, that's that's the things that

we're putting out there like our.

Blog, our social media posts.

Maybe if we have a, we put out video content or if we talk

events, you mentioned if you were invited to a panel discussion.

So all of that ties in, doesn't it?

That all of that are different types of content that we could be sharing

to talk about and reinforce our method and our unique way of working.

Yeah, and at bare minimum, that should be on your website as well.

Like it's your website.

It's even if you're advertising in local papers or you are

doing a popup at a local event.

I know in my town we have like a design show.

That we have every year, and you have architects there, designers, you know,

everything involved in that space.

But content is really to become a go-to expert is people need to

understand what you stand for.

And to do this, it is really about thinking about, well,

what am I passionate about?

And I mix up the traditional USP, which is a unique service proposition, and

just switch it around a little and say, well, what's your unique service premise?

So what I mean by your premise is what do you stand for and what

do your clients need to believe to be true, to work with you?

So this is deeper than a niche.

It's more substantial than that standard unique value proposition.

And it's about creating differentiation through having clear opinions that

absolutely attract your ideal clients.

So it's thinking about moving yourself from, yes, you are a

service provider, you've had a same qualification as someone else.

How can we move you into being that market of one?

I love that, that you, you mentioned there, what do our prospective

clients, what do they need to believe in order to be able to work with you?

So important.

I think that's something that a lot of people overlook.

Oh, people forget it all the time.

They just think it's like, oh, what can I do?

What, where can I go?

And there's this huge.

Element that I think, particularly when you're in the design

field, is as a designer.

Your brain is bubbling, like I call this quite often, the popcorn brain.

'cause you're just like po.

You're shooting off ideas all the time, and what you forget is your

clients are coming to you because their brains are not like that.

So they need to have.

The direction and the ideas, and that has to come from you.

And that's why people love to see the portfolio of ideas.

But rather than just, you know, taking on any job in any direction, if you

want to become the go-to choice, I would start getting more specific about this.

There's three what seem to be very simple questions, but maybe you'll

need to go on a little walk without anything else going on in your head and

think about these to really come to it.

So the first is, what do you wish more people understood?

About what you do in your industry, and this should be something that might make

you get a little angry or frustrated.

It's like that itching point basically.

So what do you wish more people understood?

And that can, it often bubbles up some really interesting ideas.

And the second.

What's something you believe that others might disagree with?

So this is thinking about what is a generally accepted best practice that

everyone seems to do or believe is good.

But you think it is not useful or doesn't work based on your experience.

So my example here that I've already shared in our conversation is I

don't believe visibility comes first.

I believe authority comes first before visibility.

So I'm turning what a standard.

Positioning expert, a business expert, a marketing expert, we all cross

over in similar lines, but a lot of people say, start with visibility.

Go and have pr, find your media.

And I'm like, Hmm, no.

Because if you don't know what you want to be an authority in that

media, the PR is a waste of space.

It will might get you attention, but will it grow your business?

Probably not.

So the first question was, what do you wish more people understood?

The second is, what's something you believe, others that you believe

in that others might disagree with?

So it's that contrarian point of view.

And then the third question is, does it make people stop and think like,

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it that way, but this is so true and it's

making me rethink a lot of things because to be the go-to expert.

People are looking to you to lead their thoughts.

So I'm not saying because a thought leader is a slightly different

space, but it's, they want to be led in a direction that appeals.

So when you're thinking about this.

Think about how can I answer those questions?

And in preparation, actually for this conversation, I was thinking,

hmm, I know of various architects who absolutely have a unique service premise.

Now I'm gonna put John on the spot and see if he can think of one.

I've got three really key ones I was thinking of, but knowing

your background, I was wondering.

Can you see what a unique service premise was for any famous architects from,

you know, 50, 60 years ago who are now seen as grandfathers of architecture?

That's a little clue for you there, John.

Oh, wow, you, you really have put me on the spot here, Susanna.

Um.

Yeah, I didn't warn him about this, by the way, listeners.

So he warned me about questions, but we'll see.

We'll see.

If not, I can fill them in.

You might need to throw me a line here and, and help me out.

not a problem.

And I think the moment I say them.

You'll probably go Ah, right, I get it.

And this is why I wanted examples that those of you are

in the architectural world.

You go, uh, yes.

So if I say the name, Frank Lloyd Wright, what was he known for?

It was organic architecture basically.

So he promoted organic architecture referring to both the structure

and the materials to integrate with all the designs and very much the

surrounding environment as well.

Yeah, I'm seeing John nodding now.

He's like going, yep, that makes sense.

So that was his USP, his unique service premise.

And another one, K Busia.

Machine for living was his design philosophy, right?

And that was all about functionality and the integration of modern technology.

And he was one of the first as well, to view buildings as machines for living in.

That was a really functional premise, and it drew really progressive

clients who wanted that efficient.

You know, the efficient building, a modern living space and designed to

how people actually lived and worked compared to how they'd been previously.

Are you liking

I am liking this.

I'm really liking it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

give give us number three.

So number three as well, is this is a premise that

has pretty much been so successful.

It's come into our everyday conversation and the premise before I say the person,

because I feel the premise is more famous now than the person, whereas the other

two examples, I think we know Frank Lloyd Wright, at least if you studied design

and architecture, you definitely know.

You definitely know little girl Busia as well.

But the premise of less is more.

And that is massively popular today, but it was created by me.

Uh, I can never quite say it, it's me, van Roha, I think is how you say his name.

So the surname is ROHE.

So it is Dutch and you now hear less is more like massively in everyday

conversations, but, and that's not even now related to architecture,

but that was his unique premise.

At the point when he was looking at clean, uncluttered spaces, sophisticated

simplicity, so each of these, they all had the same architectural training.

They all created very different style of buildings, but all based

on their unique service premise.

That.

Those are brilliant examples, Susanna.

Thanks for sharing those.

Um, what I would say is.

If you're listening to this now and you're thinking, well, hang on a minute,

these are like sort of world famous designers, world famous architects.

This stuff is not just for, for those people.

Like if you are a, an everyday traditional practice owner, uh,

in in any of the towns and cities across the UK or around the world.

'cause we have listeners from overseas too.

You can apply this stuff to your business as well to you as well.

It's not, this isn't something high level we're talking about.

That's just for these sort of superstar starchitects, if

you want to call them that.

That's a new word on me, a starter tech.

Yeah.

But you're right that it is.

And in fact, I've worked directly with two different interior

designers in the last few years.

And again, they come from a similar space.

They've had very similar training, but their unique service premises

are very different as well.

And as you say.

But those famous what examples?

They only got where they were and got seen as the go-to expert

because they had a unique premise.

They wouldn't be famous today if they hadn't of done that.

So if the listeners are going, oh, I want to do, this is about leaning

in and going and understanding that.

And so the examples, because I know you do have some designers

listening as well, and they might be

Yeah.

Yeah.

We have interior designers that listen to the show, so if you've got, uh, you

mentioned a couple of different, uh, examples from, uh, interior designers

that you've worked with, please feel free to share those with us.

Yeah, very much so.

And I know they won't mind as well.

So the first is Holly Scott, and she came to me.

Probably only about a year into setting up seriously her interior design business.

She'd done lots and lots of interior design, window dressing,

worked for Herod's Harvey Nichols and people in the past.

But it was when she decided to go out on her own.

And when we worked through this exercise with her, we realize that her

USP is, it's about creating a happy home and not following the trends.

But leaning into your natural interior design style, so many designers

normally have this reputation of like, oh, it's gotta be the latest thing.

What are the latest trends?

What are the latest colors?

But instead she was like, no, I'm about creating happy homes.

So her Monica, now that we created together is, she's known as the Happy

Home Designer and the response from.

She had about 2K followers on Instagram before we made this

change, and that's now tripled.

I think she's at over 6.3 k and she's five times her revenue as well.

By really leaning in to being the happy home designer and also creating a

scalable offer, so she's not only, she is still serving privately one-to-one.

But because she knew many of her clients just loved her style, wanted

to learn it for themselves and do it in their own way, in their own

time at a lower budget, she created courses, which is the Happy Home Hub.

So her whole premise is integrated throughout with that, and that

was based on this fact that she's like, no, I don't follow.

Trends, it's about being happy in your home.

It's gotta be practical and functional, but beautiful.

And she's particularly good when people have, you know, the white box of the

brand new home and they're like, well, how can I bring my personality onto this?

And that's what she really helps people with because she's

also gone through that herself.

So that's one example.

That's so cool.

I, I need to, um, catch up with Holly because I met Holly at a

conference event and I think it was before she'd done that work.

I think it was before she'd, she'd created like the one to many offers and things,

so it would be, yeah, good to have a catch up with her and to hear about her,

her journey that she's been on with this.

Yeah, no, definitely do.

And I know she's always happy to share about the journey.

And interestingly, it is a more recent client who's come with me,

so she's earlier on in the process.

But we have absolutely nailed her USP as well.

And it is a lady called Nicola Deli, Nicola D Interiors.

And again, she's done her training in interior design.

But she came to me and she knew she had this passion and love for

plants and also for bold colors.

Now she'd investigated and looked into the biophilic space.

So biophilic design is not new.

It is not sort of unique in terms of that space.

And in fact, when she came and, and spoke to me, I remember pur purchasing,

gosh, I think it was about 20 years ago, there's a book called The Natural House.

And I have it like this is where I'm a bit of an architecture

geek in the background as well.

But I remember reading it about, you know, bringing plants into your space.

And I've always loved big open spaces and bringing it all together,

but I too do too love bold colors.

And so when Nicola came to me and she was like, well, there's a sort

of, you know, biophilic design that I really love that's helped me.

'cause her journey was about the wellness as well.

And she would share her story.

Another wonderful guest actually, about how bringing plants into the space

really increases your health, not just.

The visuals.

So it's going beyond that, which is about the living houses as you say.

And you've got passive houses.

There's so many different areas.

But so her style was very, very different from Holly's, but there

was something around like the plants and the colors and she was like,

how can I build this altogether?

And she is Italian and you know, so quite effusive with everything and.

The result was we defined that her style and method, her unique premise

is about bold biophilic design because it's about bringing those

vibrant magenta and mustard yellows or strong blues against the plants.

And this really makes us stand out from all the other biophilic

designers who, to be honest, like.

96% of anyone else who I've seen who talks about biophilic design is all neutrals.

It's beige and plants and yeah.

And she was like, that's not me.

And I was like, it doesn't have to be.

So again, she had this contrarian angle and this is what we brought forward.

And now this is what she's talking about.

And she's up for awards as well, going through this journey and sharing.

So the moment you bring this premise in, you start getting these other.

Authority elements like awards being invited to speak.

She's being published in the biophilic journal as well, talking about her method

because she had this unique premise.

So I hope that listeners can begin to see how important the premises.

Which is, you know, it feels like a tiny piece, but it's massive in

terms of projecting you to be that go-to choice for your ideal clients.

Those are two brilliant stories.

it's really, really interesting to hear the transformation that they've had in

their business and, it's just incredible.

Sounds fantastic.

Susanna, what, what would be the main thing that you'd like everyone to

take away from our conversation today?

I think that everyone has a unique method to their

expertise despite being trained in the same way at the start.

And when you uncover this method, 'cause it's actually already in

you, it is not about making it up.

But let's uncover it, and that becomes your calling card and

positions you as the go-to choice.

Fantastic.

Is there anything else that you wanted to add about the topic

that we haven't covered already?

I think we've covered quite a lot along the way.

So if you start asking me more questions, you'll be here for another half an hour.

Let's, let's save that for a, a follow up conversation in the future.

Let's save it for then.

Susanna, there was something else I wanted to ask you.

I, I love to travel and to discover new places, and I wondered if you could

share one of your favorite places with us and tell us what you love about it.

This could be somewhere near or far.

This is so hard to answer because I have traveled.

Significantly.

I've lived across three continents, five countries, 20 cities in my life.

So when I was thinking about this, like, oh, where would I go?

I have to say, when I lived in the long dallan area near Montpelier in

the south of France, and it is like the Kamar, the colors, and the light.

Of just the natural spaces.

And I mean, it always took my breath away that, you know, flamingos were

the local birds down there and you'd see them flying over your head,

you know, in terms of what it is.

But the sunsets and the sunrises, and it was the first time having lived there.

I'd traveled there before and just thought, oh, you know,

nice holiday destination.

But living in the space, I really felt.

The impressionist painters in terms of like the faves as one of my

favorite artist periods as well.

So if you don't know your art history, you might need to be looking that one up.

But they basically went down to the south of France and the colors, like when I

first saw those faves paintings, I love them because of the vibrancy of the color

and when they're looking at the texture.

Having lived in that space, I'm like, it's real.

Like I had this beautiful picture window outside of my, my bedroom, and I'd wake

up in the morning, go, wow, there is a vis painting right in front of me.

So if you appreciate the play of light and colors, that area on the south of

France where all the VUS went, they went there for a reason, they went daft.

So yes, that would be one of the places.

Yeah, I would say we have to limit it to one.

Otherwise, we'd be here for a while.

That sounds absolutely gorgeous.

Though, um, I've not visited the south of France yet.

I have been to France, but not to the south.

So it's another, another place that I have to add to my ever-growing

bucket list of destinations to visit.

Susanna, thank you so much for joining us today.

Um, really enjoyed the conversation.

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Where would be the best place for people to connect with you online?

So online, if you'd like to reach out directly, absolutely

come and connect with me on LinkedIn.

If you have one of those lovely little message abilities, do say,

Hey, I heard you on John's podcast.

Otherwise, go to susanna ray.com/links, and that is where

you'll find all the free resources.

What I'm up to, I, I do a lot, so I would say go check that out and don't be

frightened to just even send me an email.

I'm friendly.

She is friendly.

I can vouch for that.

Yeah, feel free to reach out.

And just to clarify that Susanna's surname is spelled REAY.

People spell Susanna incorrectly as well.

So it's S-U-S-A-N-N-A.

EA y.com, but the link will be below in the show notes, I believe.

It absolutely will.

I'll make sure we, we put it there in the show notes.

Thanks again, Susanna.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode

of Architecture Business Club.

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Remember running your architecture business doesn't have to be hard

and you don't need to do it alone.

This is Architecture Business Club.