So what's going on, everybody?

Hi.

How are you?

I'm Derek.

I'm Matt.

I'm Kevin.

And today we are going to be talking about things and stuff.

The wilderness.

And my new hat, man, he just.

Wants to jump on it.

Trust God, bro.

Trust God, bro.

The hat.

I've been saying.

I'm gonna get it.

I got it.

You guys, check this out.

It's awesome.

I can't say that without the accent.

Just Grud, bro.

Just God, bro.

I'm not doing it.

This is God games and geekery.

Yeah, yeah.

God games and geekery.

See, you have your own accent.

I do, but I'm not doing the trust God, bro thing.

I am.

I'm totally doing trust Godbro thing.

I've never done the whole stoner thing, so.

Can't really get behind it.

Who doesn't?

Why do.

Nobody has to be a stoner to.

Be able to talk.

Okay.

I've never surfed either.

Okay.

You ever watch Scooby Doo?

Yeah.

Hey, Scoob, you got, like, shaggy.

Like, come on, man.

Skinny enough.

What?

I said I'm not skinny enough for that.

Oh, no, he's just being obstinate now.

Pretty sure that.

Not being obstinate, Just saying.

These people all just yelled at the screen.

Like, he's always obstinate, you know?

Like, that's.

Yeah.

So, one thing for you Patreon people out there, I'm curious as to what you think about the content currently, the daily devotional things and the being able to see the videos are men's and women's podcasts.

There's been lots of crazy junk that's happened.

Job shifting deaths in families.

So I do apologize for the lack of that.

But we will be recording a Rabbit hole soon.

We got to do that.

Hoping to kick it up a notch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's the best I've ever done that.

All right.

That was good.

It's like, we practiced.

We didn't practice.

You didn't practice.

No, we didn't.

But.

So.

Yeah.

So let me know.

I'm curious as to what you think, how you're feeling about it.

If you think the devotions need to be longer, shorter, one a day all together.

Like, they are.

Whatever.

And I really appreciate what you're doing.

Yep.

Really do.

Yep.

You know what?

Actually, they're making a difference considering that people are asking when they don't see them.

Yeah.

Where's the day?

So thanks for that now.

Yeah.

I.

I do apologize for last week's podcast.

I.

I forgot to upload on Monday.

We'Re gonna forget we're full of forgiveness.

Yeah, but we're not talking about that today.

I'm talking about the wilderness.

Wilderness?

What do we mean by wilderness?

I mean the wilderness.

You know, the whole Testament.

The whole what?

The whole Testament is in the wilderness.

Look, I've been there, so I can tell you.

It's desert, the wilderness.

But it's not delicious.

Although sometimes it is.

Well, when you talk about the wilderness and spiritually, in the wilderness, the Hebrew word for it is midbar.

It is where God tends to do his work with you.

A big thing about it.

It's not just that you walked outside, you're in the middle of nothing.

It's that you're communing with his creation.

The stars are above you, the mountains, the hills, whatever is around you.

And you realize his amazing glory while you commune with Him.

And you trust in him for your next step, whether it be your sustenance, whether it be your journey.

You guys were just talking about some of the things people, job changes.

And this is where he reaches out because we're quiet enough to listen.

And it goes all the way back to Abraham.

You were talking about Ishmael earlier.

All these guys, Old Old Testament.

And God seems to have a pattern about him where.

Trust me enough to take the step.

Once you do, you take that step of faith, I'll be there.

And it seems to be very consistent with today.

So that's what we are chatting about today.

All that and more.

And you never know on today's podcast where it'll go.

Episode of the Truth Response.

Although that's not how we go into this.

We typically go.

Welcome to the Truth Response.

So, Matt, you want to pray for us today?

Sure.

I feel like I'd do it.

No, it's okay.

Can't remember, there's two of us on here most of the time.

All right, that's fine.

I'll pray.

Father, thank you for today.

Thank you for the opportunity to continue to come on here and speak our truth and speak into things through experiences and insights and whatever else that you give us to bring into them.

We ask you to bless each other as we do this, but also bless everyone who listens to this, whether when it comes out or further down the line, whoever would come across it, let it be a blessing to them in some way that maybe we would never think about.

But it was only something that you would think about because you were over everything.

And so we ask you to do that.

Let your name be praised and your self be glorified.

Over all of it.

In Jesus name, Amen.

So, wilderness, you said the Hebrew word is midbar.

Yes.

I love the fact that the root word is dvar, and it means, like, speak to.

And so, like, the fact that it's the place that God takes his people to speak to them and prepare them for the promise that he has for them is so awesome.

I recently stepped into a wilderness of my own, which, I mean, some.

Some have, some know, some don't.

But I quit my job all because God laid it out pretty clearly and started a laser engraving company beginning of the year, which I've absolutely loved.

But I've got that hole in the back of my mind that's like, hey, you're not making money.

What are you gonna do?

And I keep saying, yeah, but God's got this because he's the one that laid all this out in the first place.

I could have never orchestrated the things that he put in place for this.

So what kind of wildernesses do we go through?

There are so many.

Sometimes it is because God is going to do something in our lives or require something new of us or move us into a new area.

I have been in the wilderness myself many times.

I didn't always call it that.

I remember when I was in seminary, somebody I was there with named it that me because I was in a place where I wasn't sure even going into seminary, what that meant on the other side.

I didn't, you know, am I going to go preach now?

Am I going to do this or am I going to do that?

And so when people asked me questions that even related to that, you know, anything that was like, oh, what are you going to do after?

I don't know.

And that became a frustration for me and also of a concern.

And so as I started to struggle with that and started to have a frustration within myself of, what is this?

That person came to me and said, you're in the wilderness.

God's just preparing you right now.

And that was enlightening to hear because I was like, oh, that makes more sense.

Because I just felt like I felt like I should have been going into something at the same time as I don't know.

And so to get that into my head helped me kind of relax a little bit and go, okay, well, then what can I learn while I'm here?

What can I ready myself with?

And then, you know, God's going to show me what that is?

And sometimes I think that we need to be removed from the on to.

The next thing, onto the next Thing.

Pace of our lives, you know, so that we can refocus and be taught the right things.

Sometimes you have to break a few eggs if you're going to make an omelet.

Right.

So sometimes we got to be broken down and we need to be cleared out so that something better can happen.

I think a lot of it also is the distractions.

Yeah.

You know, he wants to remove the distractions so he will be heard.

It's true.

I think one of the biggest shames that we.

That we afford ourselves is all the time we don't spend with him when we can.

And we do it every day.

But the wilderness, I mean, I've seen it myself in ways of confusion and stress at work to being just emotionally spent for months at a time.

Not a depression, but just like you go inside yourself and you're looking for direction.

I'm probably in one of those areas right now myself.

But you're moving in faith.

You know, something's coming, you're being prepared, you're listening, you're waiting, you're looking.

So it's anticipation, but there's also the having to deal with the reality of today while anticipating what's coming next.

It can be maddening, really, especially if you are the kind of person that can thrive in an environment where it's like, this is the next thing and this is the next.

This is the next thing.

To have that kind of space.

For me, I can tell you that sometimes I don't realize how busy my life is until I actually get real free time.

And then I don't even know what to do with myself.

I found out this actually when I was going to, of all things, back in seminary.

Again, not related to the other, but it was.

I would end up getting there because we had to drive down because we were doing most of our studies online.

We'd go down for an intensive week every semester.

And so somehow I would get there before all the people in my group or in my cohort.

And being there by myself with nothing to do but wait for them.

Like, there's so many things I could have done in that time.

I mean, it's simple things.

Like I could watch something on my phone, or I could have, I don't know, gone.

And I don't know, like, when I have that much freedom, I go a little loony.

I'm like, I don't know what to do.

I.

I'm usually trying to find space to do things.

And now that I have all the space, it's too much freedom.

It's too much power.

And it was crazy the last time because I got.

I graduated in 2020 during the COVID stuff.

And because of the whole Covid thing, they didn't let us stay with each.

We usually go down and we stay on campus.

But the building we normally used, they used as like a quarantine building in case somebody got sick.

And so instead they put us up in this hotel, which was nearby.

And so I had my.

Not only before, I was at least sharing a room with somebody.

Now I have my own room.

Not only that, but because of everything, some of the people couldn't come, so I ended up spending a lot of time by myself.

I don't like doing that.

I don't know.

I like at least somebody around.

The guy can go, so what you want to do?

Right.

I'm not a by myself kind of guy either.

Would you say there's a difference between wilderness and valleys?

Yes.

What would you say is the difference between a valley and a wilderness?

Well, I mean, for me, valleys can take different shapes and forms.

So, like, for instance, if you've ever gone to a Christian conference and it's like a mountaintop experience, you're at the hills, everything's in a good way, Everything's good.

And you're surrounded by Jesus and it's like, oh, man, this is amazing.

Then you have to come back to real life.

It can feel like a valley because it's like, man, I have to try to put this into action and I don't have support from 100 people every day.

This is harder.

Depression.

Yeah.

Valleys can feel like just a drop off of your faith, a momentary struggle or frustration or something, whatever it is.

And they tend to not.

They tend to be more on perception and individual scenario.

It's not something that lasts as long usually.

I mean, sometimes valleys are a little longer, but valley is in an area where there's still something to do.

A lot of times.

I don't know.

I think I disagree with that.

Really.

Okay.

In sentiment.

Yeah, I see where you're going.

I look at a valley as more like an emotional response to something that occurred.

It's your response to something you have, and it's confining to me.

It's not a big, wide bowl valley.

It's a tight valley.

It's a crevice.

So you're looking at it like that.

It's confining.

I can see that too.

I can see both.

And that's why you get that depressed feeling, because you feel out of control.

I've had that too.

So you feel like you're between a rock and hard place.

High hills, and everything's overwhelming.

Yeah.

Where the wilderness is just.

It almost feels like a sense of no direction.

Correct.

It's peace.

You can go anywhere.

The possibilities are endless.

Yeah.

And it's not necessarily brought on by a bad emotional feeling.

You're just.

You just find yourself directionless.

You find yourself just out there.

Right.

What am I supposed to do?

Where am I going with this?

Why don't I have that?

Next thing you know.

And what's crazy is that I had to learn what it's like to.

To find peace in the wilderness instead of just trying to constantly figure my way out.

Well, I can intellectually do it all the time, except for when a minute.

I could quickly make this about our faith and my walk right now.

But it is.

It's almost because there's no direction.

There's so much direction and it's almost confusion.

And it's like there's the hesitancy of if I take this step and it's wrong, the impact of that.

If I don't take any step and I just ride the course, where does that lead?

We're just pushing it off down the road.

You know, Everything has the consequence.

And I feel like being in the wilderness is at that moment where you have all those possibilities and consequence, where you are forced to turn to God and say, hey, God, where are you in this?

And when you get on your knees and you actually do it, you're asking God to allow you to participate with him.

And in so doing, I think that's where he works with you in the mid bar and he speaks to you.

I think that's where you get your spiritual gifts, the ones that he has for that particular mission, if you will.

And I think that's where you get that peace that comes about, having that.

But it's almost necessary to have the chaos and the crazy before it, because without it, we don't turn to God.

And we do it every time.

There's so many examples of it throughout history.

And we all have to be on guard against being Nebuchadnezzar and building our own idols to ourselves.

It's like the wilderness is where he talks to us.

But we have to know that it's time to go out there and walk out in the wilderness to get there.

So I was watching a video today about the wilderness, and the.

The guy was talking about how, like, the example was Joseph.

Right.

And the idea that he gave Joseph this promise, this vision, this purpose.

Right.

That when he was young and then immediately everything seemed to go out of whack and he was 19 plus years before anything he saw that come come to be.

Well, the guy was talking about how if Joseph had been given that right away, he basically would have been essentially the narcissist in that moment.

Right.

If he would have been given it then there was things about Joseph that needed to adjust and change, develop.

And so hence the beginning of his wilderness as he kept that vision that God had given him in his mind.

It was driving him, but the patience of waiting and doing it step by step with God, just waiting for him to act through the wilderness.

And like I said, that was 19 years.

I mean, I can't imagine a 19 year wilderness, you know, but like he was just talking about the fact that by the time that he got to where that was fulfilled, he was a completely different person capable of taking on the vision and promise that God gave.

And that was through nothing of him, except for his willingness to move forward with what God was putting in his life.

God tends to, just like Joseph, he tends to give people kind of like a dream or a vision of where they could be going, there should be going, or maybe what he's got planned for them.

And he did that for me.

So I know that that's a true thing because I had to live it to really fully grasp it.

But I also know that that doesn't mean he's going to tell you exactly when or how that's going to happen.

It's like, alright, well this is kind of where we're going.

Or maybe even this is one of the stops.

This is where you're going to be.

So you're going to trust me in this.

And you're like, cool, yeah.

So where do we go?

What did I just say?

You're going to trust me.

What should I do?

We're going to get you there.

Like I said, it's almost maddening.

It's Abraham, man, Abraham.

God told him, get up and go that way.

Yeah.

And so that's it.

I mean he didn't tell him why, he didn't tell him what was going to happen of it.

It does, it does prepare you.

I mean I remember getting a vision of preaching and I thought, oh, I'm gonna be a preacher, this is gonna be interesting.

And then actually, honestly, when I first saw that, I was like a little afraid of it.

Now I actually kind of like doing it.

It's weird, but I was like, okay, so what's that gonna look like when's that gonna happen?

Silence.

Well, then the next thing you know, I have somebody come up to me.

Oh, there's this class with Milligan now.

Now Milligan University.

But they're gonna.

You can take a preaching class with them.

Yeah, okay, I'll take them.

It was a preaching teaching class.

Okay, that seems like that would write then if that's what I feel like God's point, maybe I should do that.

And so I did, and I learned a lot.

And then you just, okay, well then what's next?

And then just kind of keep your eyes open.

Well, this could be it.

And it's funny how things just kind of fall into place.

Maybe not as quickly as we want it.

We tend to run a rush God's plans because we like it on our time, not his time, but everything is on his time, you know, And I think true peace.

Well, I think a large part of having a true peace in yourself is when you can better tune yourself to be on God's time and not your time.

You know, I still struggle with that every.

All the time when I'm driving down the road and there's days I'm better, but there's days where I don't know why I'm rushing.

Like, not that I'm driving, like, fast or anything, but, like, if somebody slows me down, I start getting frustrated.

My wife's like, why?

Why are you letting this frustrate you?

I don't know.

Because that's slowing me down.

Why does that matter right now?

I don't know.

You mean because isn't a good answer?

Because that's.

I mean, that's how I feel.

Because it slowed me down, that's why.

Because I want to be in front of them.

Because I don't want to be going slower right now.

I don't know.

So another interesting thing about wilderness is that there's not sustenance in the wilderness, not really.

So you have to give it up and rely on God for your sustenance, for your daily everything.

I mean, that was a big point of.

I mean, if you think about it like, so when Israel gets brought out of Egypt and then they get to the promised land and they send their spies in, and then 10 out of 12 or whatever were like, yo, we can't do this.

There's too many giants and everything else roaming our lands are these lands.

And then the other two were like, yo, God's got this.

You know?

And ultimately they chose poorly.

I mean, Israel wasn't ready for it, so God needed to take them through the wilderness for 40 years.

So that generation that was ready for it could forget the ways of Egypt, right.

Could forget that desire for what was and can long for what the promises of God are and learn to be sustained by whatever it is that God has given them.

I mean, if you think about the fact that they got tired of the manna, right?

Like, they're like, we're tired of this.

Like, we want what.

What you had.

You want what you had in Egypt.

That's what you long for.

Because that's all they'd known was slavery in Egypt.

I mean, the generation that went out there, that's all they had known was, was what they had.

They were born in captivity, weren't they?

Yeah.

I mean, it's 400 years since.

Since Joseph, right?

So, like, I mean, they're.

That's all they had known, like stories and stories and stories of their family.

Was just about the faith it took for them to walk in the desert, right?

So, but then, like, they're like, we want the Egypt stuff.

We want food, we want.

I mean, they said that a bunch.

And then that generation passed, and the next generation who was raised on manna, the provision that God gave, was ready for the promised land.

Sometimes, in order to truly grasp what God has in front of you, you have to figure out how to really let go of that thing that's going behind you.

And that can be a real challenge for a lot.

I mean, I don't think anybody's really immune from it.

It's always the part of you that wants to hold on to something, especially if you found enjoyment or satisfaction in any degree, then there is always that lingering, well, what if it is wrong to let go of this?

You have to trust God in it.

It's funny because actually I was talking with one of my students Sunday night.

I said, basically, when it comes down to the Bible, the Bible is telling us that you need to rely on God.

We used to call it frog.

Fully rely on God.

The thing is that realistically, that means for everything.

Everything, everything.

Because we can't even rely on ourselves for salvation.

The thing we need most in this world more than we need food or air, and we have to rely on him for that, too.

Everything.

We rely on God for everything.

That's what the Bible is trying to teach us, is how to stop trying to rely on anything but God for everything.

Now, people always want to argue, but he made us to work.

Yep.

He made us do all these other things.

Yep.

But are you relying on you for that or him for that?

He will provide you the work, he will provide you this how you're going to make the money.

If you rely on him, all that stuff is going to be given to you.

Right?

Yeah.

That's not to say you can't go out there and try to make it on your own.

Well, I mean it's.

But you weren't meant to.

It's crazy.

My life like right now is echoing.

All of the things that you're saying too is like, I do have that nagging in the back of my head.

But how, where's the money gonna come from?

You've only got a couple more months.

You only got three or four more months and that was the agreed upon time.

Like where's that money gonna come from?

You know, and then there's the converse of that God saying, I'm gonna bless you here, I'm gonna bless you here, I'm gonna bless you here.

Here you can have a new car from your in laws.

Here you can have a new truck from your dad, you know, which are income sources because then we're selling our other vehicles off.

Like it's, it's like, just trust, I've got this.

And I'm, I'm not, not only that.

I'm not equipping you, I'm not letting.

The, the, the voice in the back of my head get through.

Well, yeah, when you sell off the older vehicles, you can make a profit on them, but God is also equipping you better.

So you knew 100% before you knew that you were going to get a truck.

You and I had conversations about how you were going to need a truck, right?

And you were like, I don't know how, but I'd love to get one.

And you kind of just left it up to God.

God goes, here's a truck, right?

For, for the vehicle that Lizzy got, it's you.

You guys had two older vehicles that were probably gonna need a lot more work.

Here's a newer vehicle, here's some, here's the ones in a little better shape.

This will keep, keep you going.

Go for it, you know.

Yeah.

The way that God provides isn't always how we think.

Sometimes we think, you give me God, you get me the money and then I get the things.

Sometimes he's like, I'll give you the things and then you can go get the money, whatever it is, or you can just have this thing that you need and then keep going.

That was what they didn't understand about the manna.

That's how they had to be Reprimanded because they were trying to hold enough for the next day and hoard more.

And they're like, no, Every day except for Saturday, you only get for today.

You just rely on me for today.

Don't worry about tomorrow, you worry about today.

And Saturday was the only exception because you rest on Sunday.

That was it.

That's something that is as we read it, we look at it and it's like, oh, yeah, doesn't that sound good?

Put it into your life.

Worry about today.

We tend to try to keep so many different ways.

We try to plan ahead and in so many different ways.

When we do that, we're putting it in our hands, not God's.

I'm guilty.

My wife's been guilty.

Pretty much, probably.

I bet you both have done it.

I don't know anyone who hasn't done it.

That follows God.

Where there's something that you start thinking, well, I think this is.

And I'm going to do this, and you're putting it in your hands.

When you do it, the more you can take that out of your hands and keep putting it back at God, you've got this.

Tell me what to do, I'll do that.

Which is why I toss back to discernment.

And I think in the wilderness, that's a big thing.

I think that in the wilderness, God is speaking to you, but also you've got to listen to the discernment of others because you don't know the direction.

And it's crazy whenever there's four or five people that say the exact same thing that could not have got together and talked about it.

You know, I mean, like, it's wild, the things that God uses his people and tells his people to tell others.

Yeah.

And there's things we don't even realize we're giving up.

For instance, I've known people that listen to what the world has to tell them.

And the world includes their parents or schools or society.

It doesn't matter where it came from.

It tells them, okay, you got to go out there and you got to get the schooling and you got to get the good job, and then you got to save money this way, you got to do this, and you got to get yourself set up financially.

And then what our society tells you is that as you're doing that party, don't get tied down party, but keep working on this stuff.

And it's all in.

People don't even realize you're not attaching yourself to someone that can help you and you're putting yourself in Front of everything else.

Okay.

But then down the road, when other people are, you know, have lives set up, not money, houses, lives, wife, kids, futures, descendants, maybe they don't have any of that because they've only worried about themselves.

Then they find themselves not only lonely, but lost.

And some of them at that point are still so stubborn that they will not reach up and realize that God's been sitting there going, would you just.

Here, come on for a second.

Just let me in.

Let me guide you a little bit.

You might be happier.

When you're in the wilderness.

The spiritual side of it.

Yep.

How should you pray?

Well, my answer relates to the wilderness that we went through with my daughter and her illness.

And that is start.

Start praying and let God shape your prayers.

I mean, earnestly seeking him, and it doesn't matter the words that come out, but the fact that you are earnestly seeking him.

God's going to shift that.

He's gonna give you the things to say.

He's gonna put the desires on your heart that are correct, and he will shift it.

My prayers at the beginning of my daughter being sick all the time was, God, please take this away from her.

You know, like, heal her.

Then it shifted to, you know, let me have the sickness and let her be well, you know, to like, okay, God, what ended up.

What.

What do you want us to do here?

Like what?

Like, you've got us.

She's sick again.

She's gotta go back to the hospital.

What's.

What's your goal?

What do you.

What do you want us to accomplish with this?

And so like, that, I believe, was just a shift in our prayer life.

Even that may have just been the goal of that wilderness that God had for us, was to shift our prayer life and be open to that.

But that's how I would.

That's my encouragement anyways.

Just earnestly seek him and it doesn't matter the words you start with, because he's going to shape it.

I think there's a bit of bravery and boldness that needs to happen in it, too, where if you find yourself, you feel like you're in the wilderness.

And I would say bravery and the fact that you need to open up yourself to God, that you might need to fix something in yourself, that there might be something that he needs to help you work on, that needs to change, you've got your eyes on the wrong thing, your mind's not on the right thing.

And asking, Lord, is there something I need to know?

Is there something that I need to fix?

Is there something that can you help me do whatever it is that I need to do in this time, Something I need to learn, there's something I need to get better at, something I need to let go of and just ask the big.

And then there's nothing wrong also with asking God.

Okay, so what is next?

When will you let me know, Lord, if as soon as I'm ready, please let me know.

You know, those kinds of things, let me know what it is.

Can you give me a hint?

These things aren't bad things to ask, but don't get so caught up in that that you're not want.

You're not.

You're overlooking that there might be some work that needs to be done right now.

There are plenty of times where I wanted to rush it and be like, well, just tell me.

Could you just tell me not.

And I wanted to overlook that there might be something I needed to do first.

You know, when I went through some of the.

It's not always obvious, but when I went through some of the church hurt I went through up north, one of the things that I had to come to terms with was I need way more healing than I thought I did.

And then it wasn't until I was able to let God in to do that and help me get that done and to look into the right programs and all the things that I needed to do that that healing could take place.

And then once it did, then I started feeling more ready again in a real sense where it wasn't just about, okay, well, what's next?

It was like, okay, thank you for that.

I now do feel more ready now, okay, now maybe is this it?

Or is there more?

You know, whatever it was.

And it was wild to come to that realization that I've helped people through all kinds of circumstances before.

And then when I needed it, I can help other people.

I can't help myself as much as I wanted to.

So, all right, God, I'm not as good as I thought I was.

I think very rarely would you ever be able to cycle back from true wilderness if you didn't have a guide.

Yeah.

Yeah, you need it.

Well, what about when you're in the wilderness and your prayers and you're praying and the answers you're getting are not the ones you expected or wanted?

How do you deal with that?

That's what it's going to be because it's where you become that new creation.

God is shifting you into something different.

So, yeah, the you is dying with those answers.

Right?

Like, that's.

That's why it is.

He's stripping.

He's stripping the old you away, and he's creating a new you.

Even in Revelation, he says, behold, I'm making all things new.

Yeah.

Like, and.

But even before all of that, like, it's, you know, I'm a new creation in Christ.

Like, but it's.

It's.

He's all about stripping the old and.

And bringing in and cultivating the new.

And so, you know, I'm not one to be, like, live the best life.

You live your best life and live the best of you or whatever, but, like, God, use that chisel, right?

Let God form you and shape you like you need.

But I think that's what that is, is that God is coming in and saying, yep, yep, that's not what you wanted to hear, and that's what you need.

There are going to be plenty of times where God says something that doesn't make sense to you, right?

But it does to him.

And that's where faith is definitely tested in those moments, too.

It's like, well, I don't like that.

Yeah, well, it doesn't make any sense.

It will.

It will.

You just need to keep going.

Well, and I found some crazy clarity in just how I operate, right?

Like, in the midst of this wilderness so far.

Like, my dad was helping me look at trailers, right?

Like, just.

I was wanting.

I had dead set in my mind I was gonna get a truck.

I'm gonna get a big old trailer that I can load this machine up into.

I could travel if I need to.

Like, if I got to go somewhere, I can go somewhere and still do, get some work done, you know, whatever.

There's a Home Depot most places, you know, or Lowe's or whatever, you know, so I could still work from wherever I am, right?

And so, like, I'm trying to look at, like, these big trailers, and my dad's like, now you gotta start with these little things.

And I'm like, but this is what I want.

And so there was lots of frustration.

There was fighting.

I was getting, like, kind of nasty.

And it.

It hit me in the midst of that.

And I wasn't.

I wasn't being mean, but, like, I was getting frustrated, you know, And.

But it hit me in the midst of that, like, yo, here's a.

Here's a part of you that needs to change.

And that little part of you is that you're gonna have to learn that you gotta walk before you can run.

You gotta have the little stuff to get you to the big stuff.

It's almost like the talents, right?

Like the concepts of the.

You know, you got to have a little.

Or if you use.

If you're faithful with a little bit, you get more, right?

So.

So that's one of those, like, things that God is trying to strip me of.

And it is a process, but I'm actually cognizant of it now versus before.

It was like, no, I want the biggest and best things.

Like, if I've got to get it, if I'm gonna get it, I'm gonna get the best, you know, Because I don't want to stair step.

There's no point in spending the money in stair stepping.

But it's like, okay, I can't do that.

I'm not in that place.

So he's stripping away that arrogance, I guess, or the pride of thinking I'm right all the time.

So.

Well, I mean, he does that a lot where you're like, this is what I think I want.

He's like, I'm going to give you what you need.

Right?

That's always in contention, you know, that's what gets me about people who do.

Preach what we would call the prosperity gospel.

God wants to give you all the desires of your heart.

He wants to give you what you need.

That is definitely said.

We sometimes think we want things, but we don't need them.

God does want to give you the desires of your heart, but after he changes those desires, right?

Like after he creates that new creation.

If he puts the desire in there.

He wants to give it to you.

And it still might not look how you think it's going to look.

We tend to people use all kinds of verses like seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be given to you.

That doesn't mean everything you want.

That means the things you need.

You know, you're worried about, how am I gonna eat, how am I gonna.

Am I gonna have clothes?

Yeah, you're gonna have all those things.

I mean, you can trust in him.

He'll make sure.

But that doesn't mean you're gonna drive a Porsche, you know, it's just how it goes, you know?

I wish my house was bigger.

Some people might say, great, well, that's not what you need in your life.

And you're not going to realize why right now, but you will.

And you are going to be grateful when you do.

Sometimes we just need to be able to humble ourselves and go, this is what I've got.

This is good.

We don't find enough contentment with what God provides in our lives.

Sometimes that is a hard thing to do in the wilderness is find contentment in that, to be okay with not having the things that you think that you need, Whether it's direction or even when God's silent.

That's one of the things that really easily makes people go a little loony in their faith.

Some people even not even want to embrace faith is the fact that sometimes they don't hear God.

They're not getting direction from him often enough for them.

And it's like sometimes the teacher's quiet during the test.

Man, you need to just, he's there.

I heard this thing and I taught it to my students Sunday night.

But I thought it was brilliant.

This guy was standing in front of a group and he says, alright, now if I stop talking, does that mean I'm not still here?

And they of course were like, oh, no.

Okay, now close your eyes.

You can't see me.

Does that mean I'm not still here?

He said, that's the same way.

You may not be able to see God, you might not be able to hear God, but it doesn't mean he's not still there.

He's there sometimes he needs you to get some work done too, you know.

And yeah, my wife, my wife has this thing, she says it's like, because I'm like, you just gotta trust God's gonna take care of it.

She's like, yeah, as long as you're doing your part, like meaning go.

But that in itself is confusing statement to most people when you talk about trusting God, but go do the work.

You know, it goes back to, well, the old joke where the guy drowns because he didn't reach out for the fishing boat, the helicopter and the rescue.

And that's where a lot of people get totally hung up.

I don't think that there's a clear answer as to trusting God and answers don't come, or trusting God and answers do come.

I think it's simply a matter of trust that your Lord loves you and he'll provide for you and your safety and your needs.

It may have nothing to do with any of your desires or your acknowledgments.

Now, I don't know that I might want to talk about the prosperity gospel at some point because to me it's more like the indulgences than it is God wants you to be rich.

But that said, I think our Father loves us very much and wants to give us the desires of our heart, but there's no amount of good things that I could do to deserve them.

Or the salvation that I seek, which.

I think is why it's important that we make mention that God's the one that's changing those desires in us too.

Right.

And that's a very astute statement, and I agree with that.

He's obviously, if he's the one changing the desires in us and creating.

Creating new desires within us, then we're not the ones that deserve it, but he's the one that's creating them anyways, so he's gonna fulfill those things.

I don't disagree.

I just.

On the point of prosperity gospel, I'm interested to really know the definition of that, because I don't know that I've ever heard it.

I know there's a lot of people out there go, oh, no, Joel Osteen or whatever, and that's fine.

I'm not here to debate on his behalf or anybody else's.

But I look at it and go, it's not usually.

It's not usually the idea that they have money, but that if you send me money, you will be blessed in that.

That's that concept.

Yeah.

Well, I would call that the salesman and not a preacher, but I think.

Most people would agree with that.

I don't think anybody disagrees there, so.

But the reality is when.

Funny thing, it's televangelist sounds a lot like telemarketer, but.

Yeah.

Except they usually don't come around dinner time.

Unless you're paying.

Right.

But I'll tell you, in the wilderness, though, it's almost being lost and being content in that loss.

Because as you say, your questions, your desires are going to be different.

Yeah.

But you usually shed one and then move toward the other.

Yeah, well, you're not gonna start with contentment either.

No, I've never known content, maybe peace.

But not contentment necessarily.

Like, you're gonna start where everything's uncomfortable.

Like, and it may not even start necessarily that way, because if you look at, like, Israel, like, Israel was ready to get out from under the oppression of Egypt, but they didn't want anything to do with the actual.

Once they got to the.

The desert.

Right.

Like, they didn't want anything to do with the wilderness.

And so, like, it may be you being brought out of something and into something that you're like, oh, I don't know that I want this.

Right.

You know, so that contentment piece, like, you probably aren't going to start there.

Right.

But that's where, I mean, that's where Paul gets to be at the point where he's like, I'm content in all things.

Regardless of where I'm at, how I'm doing, you know, whatever.

I've learned to be content in all things that God has got me in.

And that comes from wilderness.

Right.

That comes from the development of your stripping of you and being built up that new creation.

Agreed.

Yeah, man.

Don't be afraid.

All who wonder are not lost.

All who wonder are not lost.

Yep.

I mean, just trying to find peace within yourself that God's still working.

But even when you watch the news, God is still working.

There are terrible things that happen every day.

Politicians are doing crazy things all the time.

Whether you like them or not, God is still working.

Somebody's tragedy suddenly becomes something good.

You know why?

Because God was still working.

He's the only one that can make sense of it all.

As much as it's just a song lyric, it has a lot of truth to it.

But if I'm not dead, God's not done.

So regardless of what I think he's doing or not doing, like, I've got to hold on to that.

That there is an appointed time for me.

But if I'm not there yet, he's not done with me.

And so like, that should give me a hope for a future that whatever he's got in store is going to be.

It's going to be awesome.

Not always, like, fun, but awesome.

Right.

So.

I don't know, man.

Yeah.

It's just one of those things where you just.

You have to lend yourself out.

It's about getting more out of yourself and more into him, you know, getting into you.

Because you got to me in a way words can't describe.

Yeah.

Sometimes you gotta get uncomfortable.

And actually, sometimes that would be the mark that you would know that things are from God is when they get uncomfortable.

Sometimes when it seems like something you don't want to do, you feel pulled towards it.

That's probably God, you know.

Yeah.

But I'm definitely with a clear conscience too.

I'm gonna make sure he confirms it with a.

Just about everybody that I can.

Oh, yeah.

Well, you know, God's been doing this thing.

Yep, Yep.

We see it.

Gotta run with that.

Oh, man.

Well, I mean, it's.

There's been a couple times in my life I'm like.

I feel like I need to go that way, but I don't want to go that way.

Yeah.

And the whole thing is like, if what you're looking at you're like that.

You feel like you want.

It's not like you want to do it's something you feel like you need to do.

That's the first thing.

Number two, it's probably gonna feel scary or uncomfortable because you've not done it before.

Okay.

And it's not a sinful thing.

That's probably good sign.

If those three boxes are checked, God's probably pulling you in that direction.

Now, if it's a sinful thing, it's probably not him, and it's probably you wanting to go there.

And it may feel uncomfortable, but that's a different kind of uncomfortable.

That's called conviction.

That kind of uncomfortable.

So.

Well, we talked a lot about wilderness today.

Wilderness.

Very cool.

Yeah.

And we don't need to fear being anxious about it, though.

It tends to be a thing, Right?

Well, you have to go to the deep, dark desert in order to really see the stars at night because you have no light pollution.

Maybe that's where you need to go.

See that light.

Yeah.

God puts lots of light in the darkness.

Yeah.

Question becomes, like, for those listening, it's like, are you.

Are you in a wilderness right now or have you been through one?

You know, let us know.

Yeah, we definitely love to hear about where you've been or where even you're at.

Like, if you feel like you're there and the things that you're going through, if you have any questions or if there's things that you just.

Maybe there's something that you think that you wanted to add to this.

Like, hey, man, you guys talked a lot of great stuff, but this.

Add it in there.

Let's see it in the comments.

Maybe it's something that's so good, we can do a whole other conversation on it.

Right.

We don't want to.

We don't want you to feel like your voice cannot be or should not be heard.

If.

If you've got some insight, put it out there for us.

We'd love to hear it.

You can put it on the comments of the YouTube.

That's probably one of the best places.

But if you want, if you're not a public person, you can message it to us privately.

What do you think is the best way to message privately?

I mean, you can do it.

Facebook, Instagram.

There's been a couple people do it on Instagram.

Carrier pigeon.

Carrier pigeon?

Yeah.

You can hit me up in the hallway if you go to our church.

Nah, but the truth.

ResponseMail.com is my favorite one because I check that regular.

I tell you what, if I had a pigeon come up to me with a message from Barrick, huh?

That would be pretty.

Dope that would be awesome.

It would be better if it was an owl.

An owl would be better.

I would be good with a pigeon too.

But just like, here's a message for you.

Piece of paper.

And it was actually, to me, like, it was just random.

It was just, Dear Matt, this is such and such.

I'd be like, oh, my goodness.

This is amazing.

There is a Dumbledore, first off, who has time to be training pigeons right now.

Right?

Be the guy on the roof from John Wick.

Oh, yeah, there you go.

The king.

Yeah.

It would be awesome, though.

So, yeah, just reach out to us also, if you want to be on here and you have something you want to talk about, do it.

Do it.

Let's do it.

We're open to it.

We're ready.

We're ready for this.

Are we?

I mean, I'm.

I'm trying to learn to be content in all the things.

Right.

Like, so.

Yep.

Look, I'm okay saying I don't know.

When you're in the wilderness.

Doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter.

Here it is.

Yeah.

Yep.

I'm definitely there still.

So if you are like me in the wilderness, please let us know.

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Yeah, it's not as in your face.

Yeah, but Patreon's a thing, guys.

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