Speaker: 00:00:28

Today's guest is Leila Lahbabi,

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strategist, author and founder of Mind Impact.

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After starting her career advising CEOs and investors at Oliver Wyman, Leila shifted her

focus to helping purpose-driven leaders scale their impact from the inside out.

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She now works with founders and executives across Europe and MENA, helping them unlock

high-performing talent, build conscious leadership and scale sustainably without burnout.

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Her upcoming book, The Billion Dollar Purpose, coming in 2025, dives into how companies

like Patagonia and AirBnb outperform the market by putting people and purpose at the heart

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of growth.

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Leila, welcome to "Poder aprender."

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Thank you, Walter.

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It's an honor to be here with you.

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You started out in high stakes strategy consulting and I wonder what personal learning

curve did you go personally through when shifting toward a more human-centered, purpose

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driven work?

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Very good question and difficult to answer in a way that learning for me happens all the

time.

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I went to strategy consulting because I wanted to learn.

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I didn't want to be in one place.

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I wanted to learn from different companies.

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I wanted to learn how they work.

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I wanted to learn how they interact with each other.

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I wanted to learn about the industry.

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I wanted to learn about their country, their culture.

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So was working with different countries and different cultures.

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And that for me was

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what I love doing and what I love living.

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And then from that, I switched from like corporate job and being something which is really

structured into being an entrepreneur.

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I was like, okay, let's start from zero because now you need to learn to unlearn.

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So you need to unlearn your old patterns.

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You need to unlearn the old things.

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Do all the way of doing things and go for a new way of building a business based on what I

call beginner's mind, right?

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So not assume that you know already, but just try some things out because what's used to

work for you may not work anymore now because you're not part of a big brand, you don't

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have a big name.

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So this will not work for you to run your business.

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You need to build it somewhere else.

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Which is more based on value, more based on connections, more based on everything that an

entrepreneur does.

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I love what you said about it.

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It sounds like more taking responsibility for your own future, for your own destiny.

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And I so appreciate what you say about unlearning.

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People underestimate the power of unlearning.

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Sometimes it's all about learning and we skip over like, maybe I need to do things very

differently from what I used to.

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So thank you for that.

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Thank you for asking the question.

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Many of our listeners are very passionate about building skills and exploring new paths.

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I wonder what hobby or learning habit outside of work has shaped your perspective the most

as a leader now?

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My first teacher is nature.

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I learned through nature.

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Like I look at birds and then I at trees and I look at how they live, etc.

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My second teacher is my kids.

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Because they have, they see everything from the lens of someone who is discovering it.

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Like, whoa, my God, Disneyland!

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And then you're in Disneyland for the first time.

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My God, this flower is so beautiful.

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And then, you you learn to see things differently and then they see something that we are

not used to see.

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And the third thing that really helped me when I went to entrepreneurship is surfing.

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All my life, I was thinking I want to go surfing, but didn't have the occasion, the

opportunity also.

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It wasn't a priority.

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And then since I moved back to Morocco like three years ago, I was like, I want to start

surfing.

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And this was my main mindset coach.

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The waves.

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Like going with the waves, not going against the waves, catching a wave that is at your

level, having fun when you're catching the wave and not thinking about the other waves.

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Sometimes taking time to relax and not just rush but just see what is the right wave to

take and not just stare there but there are waves coming in so you need also to catch them

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out.

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So many things on the mindset shift that I thought about moving from corporate to

entrepreneurship that surfing teach me in the way to handle my energy, in the way to go on

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the market, in the way to show up,

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and in the way to have fun along the way.

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I appreciate what you said about being sensitive to what's going on with the water and

also timing that and managing your energy and which wave are you riding when you're

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waiting, being patient.

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I don't surf and I know that's one of the ultimate

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sport skills because that relationship that it has with nature and moving along that flow.

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And you cannot surf whatever you choose to.

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You have to see what are the conditions, the natural conditions, and adapt yourself to

that.

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And you cannot surf any spots.

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And sometimes when you take a wave and you just want to rush into things, then you just

miss out on other waves that are better.

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They're like, because you weren't...

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watching you weren't seeing what was happening and sometimes my coach was like you know

you wanted to to gain time you're losing so much time by just hustling here and I saw my

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behavior and this behavior we also sometimes do it on a business side right.

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Yeah, it's like keeping an eye on the big picture and not being short-sighted.

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Absolutely.

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And as you said, the spot that you are picking to surf and also which days because maybe

there are days that not very conducive to surfing or times of the year.

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Yes, and this goes against the hustling culture.

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You know, the hustling way of doing entrepreneurship is like a new to wake up every day at

5 a.m.

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and then to take your coffee and then work, work, work until midnight.

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But all days are not the same.

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You don't have the same energy every day.

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You can do something in four hours one day and the other day it will take you ages.

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So if you don't accept that and take this time to recharge,

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you will always run on a low battery.

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Yeah.

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And talking about skills in general, I know that you help leaders perform at their best

with less effort.

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And what skills beyond strategy do you see as essential to becoming that kind of leader

today?

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It's learning to ride the wave.

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It's exactly that So this is what mindfulness teach me, right?

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And now what I'm doing is a mix of what I've learned through the years walking with

Fortune 100 CEOs, which is around strategy.

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It's good to have a structure.

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It's good to have clear vision.

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This always great.

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But then if you don't have this presence,

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to listen to the ground, what's happening on the ground.

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If you don't have team that is collaborative, that trusts you and they work together, you

will be the bottleneck of your business.

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And you will also struggle to transform strategy into real actions on the ground, into

transformation, to have the real execution that will have the impact, right?

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So in order to do that, there is a big mindfulness shift is to be aware.

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Of your presence, of your energy, of actually not what's only you're saying, but what your

team is capturing as a message from you.

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Some leaders come to me and say, I don't understand.

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I'm all about collaboration.

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I'm all about people coming in and bringing their ideas.

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And when you ask the question to the team, they're like, really?

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Are you sure?

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So it's not something that the leader is saying.

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But it's something that is showing up in the way he leads.

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And in the way he or she leads, can sometimes share a message around, don't really trust

you in what you're saying.

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Your idea doesn't seem to be so brilliant.

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Even if they don't say that, you can see it in their, the way of talking and the way of

responding and the way of reacting and the way of rushing and the way of

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telling people what to do, and this is a learnable skill.

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So for me, the mindfulness part is an important accelerator of the execution of the

strategy that leaders want to have an impact on the ground.

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It makes sense.

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It makes a lot of sense to me.

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Sometimes people deal more or are more concerned with the words and there's more to that.

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There's like how they're showing up, their presence, who they are being in that situation.

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That's something that goes beyond words.

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It goes beyond words and directs into emotions.

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And you, so you connected, you made a connection between mindfulness and leadership.

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And if leadership would be, let's say that it's a skill and I see that there's a component

of mindfulness here.

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Do you think it can be learned such as a language or a musical instrument or surfing?

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And if that's the case, what practices can be helpful to make it second nature over time?

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This is a beautiful question because what we have been taught at school is like the only

thing that you can learn is math, languages, science, literature, probably also

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philosophy, but listening to your emotions and understanding your internal engine is

something that we haven't been taught.

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And then also there is a big belief

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around your this or your that.

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This is why we call like the fixed mindset and growth.

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Your this or your that.

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You're nice people or bad people.

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You know how to talk or you don't know how to talk.

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You know how to lead or you don't know how to lead.

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You know how to manage your emotion or you don't know how to manage emotion.

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It's right or wrong.

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Binary, like zero one, zero one.

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And all the other skills, we have a range of gray.

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Like you don't have someone who speaks English or who doesn't speak English.

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Right?

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You have...

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Level 1, level 2, level 3, level 4.

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Spanish as well, mathematics as well.

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But then when we go into emotions, it's like, he knows how to handle them, he doesn't know

how to handle them.

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He's a great leader, he's a bad leader.

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Right?

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Or nothing!

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And then we go into this binary because we haven't said, or we haven't learned from our

childhood.

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One, that it's a learnable skill, and two, how to learn, and three, what are the different

levels, and four, how to recognize those levels, and five, how to train ourself in each

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level to attain the level after that.

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So it's great.

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There's hope.

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I mean, there is hope to everyone.

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And the hope is if I talk about my own story, if I thought to myself, like, I'm hopeless,

I wouldn't be here today.

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If I said to myself, my god, you're so stressed out.

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My god, you don't know to do anything but hustle.

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My god, you're yelling all the time.

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My god, you're always complaining.

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And then I sit with myself and like, that's the way you are.

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Shame on you.

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Can you tell us a personal experience of transformation, how you shifted from one being

this way to this other way?

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Yes, I can share an experience at work where I was trained to be this pushy, like you need

to push.

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The management is like you need to be really trying, especially when you're a woman, you

need to push harder because people will not listen to you.

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I had this experience.

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So I was like more pushy and seeing like why people are not answering, seeing people like

raising their eyes so they're like...

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Again.

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She's going to do it again.

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And when I started training myself into mindfulness, I started learning actually what was

happening inside and not just the words that were coming from my mouth.

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And making the link between my thoughts, my emotions, and my body sensations.

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So when I'm saying something and if I feel stretched and then I feel like inside me I'm

angry, I know that the only word that would get from my mouth are words of anger.

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And that people will not listen because people don't like anger.

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So whatever you said, if it is like, you're a great person, you see like, I can say you're

great person, but I'm angry.

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Right?

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And what happens, like I went one day to a retreat, a silent retreat, and I came back.

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And it was not only me, but I saw what was happening in the room.

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And when I was in the room, coming from the silent retreat, and it was a strategic

meeting, everyone was yelling the way I was yelling before, and starting to make their,

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like...

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their point, it's my point, I'm saying this, I'm the one who's right, at some point I want

to also express myself, but there was no room for that, who's going to listen, everyone is

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only thinking about what's on his mind, so what I did is like, I started whispering.

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I started something like this.

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And then people turned in like, what?

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What are you saying?

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It was surprising.

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For them.

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And it's made me smile.

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Because it was disruptive.

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Completely disruptive.

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It's like people were curious.

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Why is she whispering first?

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Second, why is she saying?

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What is she saying?

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And third, what's happening here?

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Right?

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So I was able to make my point by whispering.

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And I would have never done this before, training my mind into seeing what was going on,

understanding what I was feeling, and then holding the energy to speak differently.

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And I don't just use that at work, but also with my kids.

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You sometimes kids come like, ah, and then you start whispering like, what?

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Or sometimes I start just like moving my lips and my mouth like, and my little one is

saying, what?

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That's your secret weapon now.

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Completely, my secret weapon, yeah!

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So this is one example, yeah.

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I appreciate what you say about how the practice of meditation and mindfulness can be

helpful in a leadership context.

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So you said that you attended a retreat.

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I also have experience with silent retreats and meditation.

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And I know that's something that it might seem like it might...

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sound like a stretch for many people or like this is too extreme or I'm not doing that.

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I would like to practice mindfulness and this is not something I'm willing to do yet.

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What are other more gentle ways or maybe easier ways that we can, people can start leaning

in more into mindfulness practice without going to a long silent retreat?

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Yeah, sure.

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The first thing for busy leaders is just not to rush from a meeting to another.

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I've lived so many years, like you have the meeting ending at 2 p.m., the other one is

starting at 2 p.m.

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Like, leave just five minutes between a meeting and another.

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15 minutes would be great, but five minutes will change the way you will show up.

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It will change your presence and will change your energy and the receptivity of your

message.

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Five to 10 minutes and just take them to breathe, to go for a walk, to hydrate yourself

with water and connect to the present moment.

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Not thinking about this is what I'm going to say in this meeting.

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This is what is going to happen.

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Not just stay with that.

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Where you are

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for five minutes and try it.

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Because what we don't do is like, me, people say, give me three, give me five, give me 10

ways of doing it.

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And then I give them 10.

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And then they're asking, have you tried anyone?

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I don't remember.

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Too many.

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So prefer to give one.

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Try just this one.

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In your calendar, never allow

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to have a meeting starting when the other is ending.

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And allow this 10 minute step.

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And a way of doing it, a trick of doing it, is instead of having one hour meeting, you

program 45 minutes.

228

00:16:22,072 --> 00:16:27,897

Instead of having 30 minutes of meeting, you program 20 minutes of meeting.

229

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And sometimes people will find it weird.

230

00:16:30,528 --> 00:16:32,362

Why 20 minutes?

231

00:16:32,362 --> 00:16:40,653

Because you know if you program from 2pm to 2.20 nobody is going to put on your calendar a

meeting at 2.20.

232

00:16:40,653 --> 00:16:43,053

Unless if you're doing 20-20-20.

233

00:16:43,053 --> 00:16:45,504

This is not the point, right?

234

00:16:45,504 --> 00:16:47,032

This is a trick that you can use.

235

00:16:47,032 --> 00:16:48,883

That's wonderful.

236

00:16:48,883 --> 00:16:57,899

Yeah, so the strategy or the system would be not to have meetings back to back first, not

to have meetings back to back.

237

00:16:57,899 --> 00:17:01,491

So that's an idea to create some space in between meetings.

238

00:17:01,491 --> 00:17:08,104

And the one strategy to do that is not, you don't do that by finishing a meeting at the

hour.

239

00:17:08,104 --> 00:17:11,377

You finish it before like the hour or like...

240

00:17:11,377 --> 00:17:13,128

in the 30 minutes slots.

241

00:17:13,128 --> 00:17:19,770

So instead of finishing at, I don't know, 11 a.m., you finished 10.50 or 10.45.

242

00:17:19,770 --> 00:17:22,710

And so that would be the way that you...

243

00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:31,310

Otherwise it's like, I agree that it would be awkward to let's start, let's meet at 2.05,

like five past two, right?

244

00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:33,681

So, or 10 minutes past two.

245

00:17:33,681 --> 00:17:38,572

And I know there's people who might be, maybe are starting meetings at 15 after the hour.

246

00:17:38,572 --> 00:17:43,590

And usually it's like we start at the hour mark or after 30 minutes.

247

00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:45,954

So yeah, that's wonderful.

248

00:17:45,954 --> 00:17:47,928

That's very practical and actionable.

249

00:17:47,928 --> 00:17:51,846

And talking about exhaustion and disconnection.

250

00:17:51,846 --> 00:17:58,917

What signs do you notice when someone's performance is masking exhaustion or disconnection

in your experience?

251

00:17:58,917 --> 00:18:01,301

And what's something they can shift to

252

00:18:01,301 --> 00:18:02,324

do something different,

253

00:18:02,324 --> 00:18:03,722

to rebalance themselves?

254

00:18:03,722 --> 00:18:06,435

Yeah, you will see that in different levels.

255

00:18:06,435 --> 00:18:07,996

You will see in the way they show up.

256

00:18:07,996 --> 00:18:10,247

You will see it probably in their memory.

257

00:18:10,247 --> 00:18:13,019

So they're not present, they don't remember what you said.

258

00:18:13,019 --> 00:18:14,780

And sometimes they ask, could you repeat that?

259

00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:16,052

Could you please repeat that?

260

00:18:16,052 --> 00:18:19,186

You will see it in their multitasking.

261

00:18:19,186 --> 00:18:22,579

So they're with you, but actually they're on their phone or they're on something else.

262

00:18:22,579 --> 00:18:27,362

You will see it in the decisions, the way they making their decisions.

263

00:18:27,362 --> 00:18:30,117

Is it a reaction or a response?

264

00:18:30,117 --> 00:18:33,169

And there is a big difference between reaction or response.

265

00:18:33,169 --> 00:18:42,245

Reaction is more based on fear, on stress, and we need to do this now, otherwise this will

happen, otherwise this will happen.

266

00:18:42,245 --> 00:18:44,417

It's the fight or flight mode, right?

267

00:18:44,417 --> 00:18:47,573

The response is, first they acknowledge what's going on.

268

00:18:47,573 --> 00:18:57,736

They're able to talk about their emotions to see how they feel, because people who are

just watching, they say, I don't feel well, but not feeling well is not an emotion.

269

00:18:57,736 --> 00:19:08,930

Someone who is more embodied leadership and knows where he's going and is not hustling is

someone who can tell you how he feels with more precision.

270

00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:14,338

And can also make the link between how he feels and what is just happening.

271

00:19:14,338 --> 00:19:15,896

Would you give us an example?

272

00:19:15,896 --> 00:19:17,885

In this case, how it would be more specific?

273

00:19:17,885 --> 00:19:18,536

Yes.

274

00:19:18,536 --> 00:19:26,236

So let's say I had a client who was working on an AI product for a while, right?

275

00:19:26,236 --> 00:19:31,047

And AI products right now, there are so many companies working on AI at the same time.

276

00:19:31,047 --> 00:19:37,478

And so many of them are sometimes doing the same, more or less cycling the same markets.

277

00:19:37,478 --> 00:19:44,129

And this client of mine was in a final discussion to get a project

278

00:19:44,129 --> 00:19:47,902

to test his product on the ground with the client, right?

279

00:19:47,902 --> 00:19:50,786

And he was in the final line with another competitor.

280

00:19:50,786 --> 00:19:53,399

And this competitor had more features.

281

00:19:53,399 --> 00:19:56,181

He was doing the same thing as my client, but more features.

282

00:19:56,181 --> 00:20:01,298

And his reaction at first was like, let's build all the features that he has.

283

00:20:01,298 --> 00:20:02,298

This was the reaction.

284

00:20:02,298 --> 00:20:11,502

And then when he saw the timeline, like the presentation will be in one month, we cannot

anyway build all the features that the others have.

285

00:20:11,502 --> 00:20:16,234

So after the reaction, he took time to breathe and he tried to connect to what's really

important.

286

00:20:16,234 --> 00:20:19,416

What is the client that they're trying to have exactly wants?

287

00:20:19,416 --> 00:20:22,138

Does he want more features?

288

00:20:22,138 --> 00:20:24,992

Or is it this feature, but much better?

289

00:20:24,992 --> 00:20:27,695

And what is the competitive advantage that they do have?

290

00:20:27,695 --> 00:20:30,847

Not what the other has, what they do have.

291

00:20:30,847 --> 00:20:32,730

And this is connection with the alignment.

292

00:20:32,730 --> 00:20:41,348

So when you're out of alignment or when you're acting out of fear or acting out of

defense, you try to imitate what the others are doing.

293

00:20:41,348 --> 00:20:48,139

And imitation, we know it, is always just not as good as the original, usually.

294

00:20:48,139 --> 00:20:55,085

And when you're strong in what you're doing, you know what you're doing, and then you know

that you have something which is really strong, you connect to your power.

295

00:20:55,085 --> 00:21:00,550

And when you connect back to your power, you make something great out of it, and you go

with conviction.

296

00:21:00,550 --> 00:21:02,562

So when you pitch, you pitch with conviction.

297

00:21:02,562 --> 00:21:06,415

You work on something that's exactly your zone of genius.

298

00:21:06,415 --> 00:21:07,546

And this is how you compete.

299

00:21:07,546 --> 00:21:09,588

This is what, for example, Netflix

300

00:21:09,588 --> 00:21:10,259

did it, right?

301

00:21:10,259 --> 00:21:13,582

If we took concrete examples that people know about.

302

00:21:13,582 --> 00:21:18,050

Like, next week they didn't say, let's do all type of entertainment.

303

00:21:18,050 --> 00:21:18,531

No.

304

00:21:18,531 --> 00:21:21,625

They said, we're going just to do streaming.

305

00:21:21,625 --> 00:21:22,677

Just streaming.

306

00:21:22,677 --> 00:21:24,248

What's Slack, for example?

307

00:21:24,248 --> 00:21:29,793

Slack, could say, OK, let's do everything which is around the collaboration within the

workplace.

308

00:21:29,793 --> 00:21:34,179

It's like, no, just the communication part of collaboration.

309

00:21:34,179 --> 00:21:37,453

And you have so many other tools that you have so many other features.

310

00:21:37,453 --> 00:21:38,915

But they're not billionaire...

311

00:21:38,915 --> 00:21:40,518

billion dollar businesses.

312

00:21:40,518 --> 00:21:42,170

And this is the power of focus.

313

00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:44,643

So intention drives focus.

314

00:21:44,643 --> 00:21:49,117

Focus drives performance.

315

00:21:49,117 --> 00:21:51,291

And performance that is driven by

316

00:21:51,291 --> 00:21:58,073

simplicity and power in one place, than all over the place.

317

00:21:58,073 --> 00:22:00,565

Yeah, they made a decision to excel at one thing.

318

00:22:00,565 --> 00:22:04,415

It's not that they don't want to, they didn't want to excel at a lot of things.

319

00:22:04,415 --> 00:22:14,835

And what you said about your client reminds me also, it makes me think when people are

competing with others or are competing with themselves, they're trying to upgrade

320

00:22:14,835 --> 00:22:21,560

themselves and become a better version of their product instead of looking around, what's

everybody else doing?

321

00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:22,929

I need to do the same.

322

00:22:22,929 --> 00:22:24,484

I need to catch up with them.

323

00:22:24,484 --> 00:22:25,475

Yeah, exactly.

324

00:22:25,475 --> 00:22:26,666

And you remind me of something.

325

00:22:26,666 --> 00:22:32,448

I had a coach one day who told me, need to be the best strategy consultant.

326

00:22:32,448 --> 00:22:34,359

I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

327

00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,279

I'm not the best strategy consultant.

328

00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:39,330

There's so many great strategy consultants out there.

329

00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:46,721

I'm differentiating myself by being at the intersection of strategy and mindfulness.

330

00:22:46,721 --> 00:22:48,257

This is my sweet spot.

331

00:22:48,257 --> 00:22:55,377

Because this is what's in line with the way I do things and the way I help my clients and

people recognize me directly.

332

00:22:55,377 --> 00:22:57,928

They don't come to me to say because they like it's the best.

333

00:22:57,928 --> 00:22:58,359

No.

334

00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,330

Or it's the one next door.

335

00:23:00,330 --> 00:23:00,861

No.

336

00:23:00,861 --> 00:23:05,232

Because they feel that my story connects to their story.

337

00:23:05,232 --> 00:23:06,683

We don't need more than that.

338

00:23:06,683 --> 00:23:09,066

I have another idea how you can call yourself.

339

00:23:09,066 --> 00:23:10,368

You wanted to hear it?

340

00:23:10,368 --> 00:23:11,277

Yes.

341

00:23:11,277 --> 00:23:12,105

The whispering coach.

342

00:23:12,105 --> 00:23:13,379

The whispering coach.

343

00:23:13,379 --> 00:23:16,874

I've heard this one, like the CEO whisperer and this.

344

00:23:16,874 --> 00:23:18,704

Yeah, I've heard it.

345

00:23:18,704 --> 00:23:28,641

And you have a story about, mean, yeah, so that's the, that's, there's that, but I want,

also share this based on what you shared about whispering in the meetings.

346

00:23:28,758 --> 00:23:31,592

How you use you and how you use whispering.

347

00:23:31,592 --> 00:23:32,101

Yeah.

348

00:23:32,101 --> 00:23:40,655

So, yeah, we were talking about performance and in this podcast, that's something that I

usually talk about.

349

00:23:40,655 --> 00:23:44,848

People who are interested in mastery or learning something to a high degree.

350

00:23:44,848 --> 00:23:54,816

And how can we keep that balance when we, people who are very interested in mastering

something and how can we stay in high performance

351

00:23:54,816 --> 00:23:58,468

without falling into perfectionism or burnout.

352

00:23:58,468 --> 00:23:59,480

Mmm.

353

00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,978

The word is passion.

354

00:24:00,978 --> 00:24:05,635

Because when you have the passion, like perfectionism, it's just refinement.

355

00:24:05,635 --> 00:24:07,217

Because you're doing it out of pleasure.

356

00:24:07,217 --> 00:24:17,429

One thing that happens, because I work with companies that are scaling, and companies that

are scaling, the leader is scaling himself, but he's scaling also his team.

357

00:24:17,429 --> 00:24:29,485

And the scale in the way I define it and the way I explain it to my clients is just make

sure that you move from a team of generalists to a team of specialists.

358

00:24:29,485 --> 00:24:37,130

So that each person focus on it's so her or she's her or his zone of genius.

359

00:24:37,130 --> 00:24:40,893

Because when you do that, you're not competing about like

360

00:24:40,893 --> 00:24:44,757

perfectionism and you're not against the...

361

00:24:44,757 --> 00:24:45,788

time flies.

362

00:24:45,788 --> 00:24:51,604

And you don't have the other things that you need to do that prevent you from learning

what you have to learn.

363

00:24:51,604 --> 00:24:53,506

And this something that happens often.

364

00:24:53,506 --> 00:24:55,839

We say, I want to learn this skill.

365

00:24:55,839 --> 00:24:59,571

But then, I have so many things in my life that I want to do.

366

00:24:59,571 --> 00:25:04,583

So I'm frustrated because I cannot spend time and focus and energy on this skill.

367

00:25:04,583 --> 00:25:11,293

So I would say for each of us, really to pick and choose and feel what energizes us.

368

00:25:11,293 --> 00:25:14,737

And also what sometimes we're good at already,

369

00:25:14,737 --> 00:25:16,388

and go to the next level.

370

00:25:16,388 --> 00:25:27,130

Because what I found myself at, like, even at my level when I started entrepreneurship, I

had to learn so many different skills that I didn't know about before.

371

00:25:27,130 --> 00:25:34,683

Like, you need to learn how to sell, you need to learn how to market, you need to learn

how to build a product, you need to learn how to organize yourself, you need to learn how

372

00:25:34,683 --> 00:25:39,056

to drive revenue, you need to learn finance, you need to learn, like, legal stuff.

373

00:25:39,056 --> 00:25:39,910

So many things.

374

00:25:39,910 --> 00:25:48,863

And this, I've heard and I've read somewhere that you just need to spend 20 hours or

something to learn the basics of a skill.

375

00:25:48,863 --> 00:25:50,505

And this for me is important.

376

00:25:50,505 --> 00:25:51,566

I love doing that.

377

00:25:51,566 --> 00:25:54,680

Like spend 20 hours on one skill and learn it.

378

00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,432

But then...

379

00:25:55,432 --> 00:25:59,616

Trying to have the perfection in all the skills is where we burn out.

380

00:25:59,616 --> 00:26:03,718

It's not trying to have perfection in one skill that burns us out.

381

00:26:03,718 --> 00:26:05,759

It's trying to be perfect in everything.

382

00:26:05,759 --> 00:26:11,336

I want to speak English perfectly and now I just switch from French to English.

383

00:26:11,336 --> 00:26:19,743

So if I was like, I want to speak English perfectly and have a business that is perfect

and landing pages that are perfect and my book should be perfect.

384

00:26:19,743 --> 00:26:20,455

No!

385

00:26:20,455 --> 00:26:21,016

Right?

386

00:26:21,016 --> 00:26:28,575

So one thing that you're perfect at, that is at the core of what you do, and then the rest

comes as a support.

387

00:26:28,575 --> 00:26:35,947

Where you're maybe average and learning along the way, but most of your focus goes into

one or two skills.

388

00:26:35,947 --> 00:26:37,661

Yeah, picking your battles.

389

00:26:37,661 --> 00:26:38,879

Yeah, pick your battle.

390

00:26:38,879 --> 00:26:41,902

And that's something also that comes to me and you're a polyglot.

391

00:26:41,902 --> 00:26:42,851

You speak three languages.

392

00:26:42,851 --> 00:26:45,415

You speak Arabic, you speak English, you speak French.

393

00:26:45,415 --> 00:26:53,694

And that's something that I heard around people who learn languages and people assume that

they learn like three languages or more languages at once.

394

00:26:53,694 --> 00:26:56,477

And it's possible to learn things sequentially.

395

00:26:56,477 --> 00:26:58,979

Like first I learned this and people don't know.

396

00:26:58,979 --> 00:27:03,566

Maybe they assume that I was, that a person was learning everything at once and they...

397

00:27:03,566 --> 00:27:10,543

see somebody at their, in their thirties or forties, and they are assuming that they did

everything and they were doing everything at once.

398

00:27:10,543 --> 00:27:12,405

And maybe there was a path.

399

00:27:12,405 --> 00:27:14,578

There was something that for a few years they did this.

400

00:27:14,578 --> 00:27:17,362

Then for another few years, they did this other thing.

401

00:27:17,362 --> 00:27:24,069

And that's how they ended up having multiple skills and developing different things in

their lives.

402

00:27:24,069 --> 00:27:27,460

Oh my god, what you're saying like resonates so much.

403

00:27:27,460 --> 00:27:34,551

Because we look at people like the final product and we assume that everything happened at

once.

404

00:27:34,551 --> 00:27:38,293

We say, okay, they've learned, but they like, they know all that.

405

00:27:38,293 --> 00:27:41,533

Yeah, but he's 40 or she's 30 or 50.

406

00:27:41,533 --> 00:27:46,204

So they focused on one thing for five years and one thing for five years.

407

00:27:46,204 --> 00:27:47,484

And it's normal.

408

00:27:47,484 --> 00:27:50,295

At the end, they're just merging all those things

409

00:27:50,295 --> 00:27:54,829

together and it works perfectly but the learning happens sequentially as you just said.

410

00:27:54,829 --> 00:27:59,732

And there's something that you also speak about and you were talking about scaling before.

411

00:27:59,732 --> 00:28:11,040

You help companies who are scaling and this idea of scaling from the inside out and how do

you apply that not only to beyond business, to personal reinvention or when people are

412

00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:18,616

learning a skill, what are the implications of learning scaling from the inside out when

we're learning and when we are reinventing ourselves?

413

00:28:18,616 --> 00:28:21,909

So, scaling from inside out, applied to learning.

414

00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:23,100

This is a beautiful question.

415

00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:24,582

It's the first time I have this.

416

00:28:24,582 --> 00:28:27,536

So let me think with you about this one.

417

00:28:27,536 --> 00:28:29,368

This is something that I apply to myself.

418

00:28:29,368 --> 00:28:32,322

I don't care if someone has a better English than me.

419

00:28:32,322 --> 00:28:37,228

I don't care if someone is a better guitarist than me or plays better piano than me.

420

00:28:37,228 --> 00:28:47,299

I just look at how I was doing one year or two years before and I compare to that I'm

like, oh my God.

421

00:28:47,299 --> 00:28:52,510

And sometimes we can also learn from ourselves and teach ourselves.

422

00:28:52,510 --> 00:29:01,992

So sometimes I can watch myself on video talking and seeing their face I was like, oh,

here I was doing this, here I was doing that.

423

00:29:01,992 --> 00:29:03,112

So usually...

424

00:29:03,112 --> 00:29:12,460

We wait for other people to give us feedback on how we react, to give us feedback on our

language, to give us feedback on what to do better.

425

00:29:12,460 --> 00:29:19,137

But there is something from inside out, is asking ourselves the question, this happened

this way, and they're reflecting.

426

00:29:19,137 --> 00:29:21,141

How could I do better next time?

427

00:29:21,141 --> 00:29:22,217

What should I learn?

428

00:29:22,217 --> 00:29:23,574

What do I want to learn?

429

00:29:23,574 --> 00:29:39,071

And we see ourselves as an evolution, learning an evolution over a lifetime, whether then

achieving a specific goal or looking like someone or having a skill in the same way as

430

00:29:39,071 --> 00:29:39,621

someone else.

431

00:29:39,621 --> 00:29:40,972

This is from my inside out.

432

00:29:40,972 --> 00:29:49,080

It's like me, my own performance with what I love, with where I want to go, what's the

next thing for me to learn and how can I do better?

433

00:29:49,111 --> 00:29:50,242

That's amazing.

434

00:29:50,242 --> 00:29:58,876

And that's something that I agree that I can see myself also in that and that I

underutilize what's available to me to improve on my own learnings.

435

00:29:58,876 --> 00:30:03,380

And that's something that I see all around.

436

00:30:03,380 --> 00:30:06,311

We are waiting for someone else to give us feedback.

437

00:30:06,311 --> 00:30:10,092

Now with this AI, I want AI to give me feedback.

438

00:30:10,092 --> 00:30:12,173

I want the feedback of AI.

439

00:30:12,173 --> 00:30:13,644

And I recently...

440

00:30:13,644 --> 00:30:26,365

I was reflecting on this, how we are disempowering ourselves also in terms of what we can

do on our own right now, because there's so now with technology is so much easier to get

441

00:30:26,365 --> 00:30:27,646

that type of feedback.

442

00:30:27,646 --> 00:30:39,615

It's like now we don't even need humans to tell us we can rely entirely on feedback or the

reflections from AI what they, AI is seeing on us, what we should improve.

443

00:30:39,646 --> 00:30:45,592

That in my opinion, that's costing us discernment and our discernment skills and powers.

444

00:30:45,592 --> 00:30:49,777

And we become very dependent on others or technologies.

445

00:30:49,777 --> 00:30:55,254

I love what you're saying and the word discernment that you used is very powerful.

446

00:30:55,254 --> 00:30:59,459

It's not AI, like AI is not going to do just anything.

447

00:30:59,459 --> 00:31:02,133

If we use it, we don't use it, it's our choice.

448

00:31:02,133 --> 00:31:04,746

It's the discernment while using it.

449

00:31:04,746 --> 00:31:07,139

I don't mind asking AI for feedback.

450

00:31:07,139 --> 00:31:09,572

I don't mind asking people for feedback.

451

00:31:09,572 --> 00:31:11,476

But then discernment

452

00:31:11,476 --> 00:31:14,148

is the key skill also to develop.

453

00:31:14,148 --> 00:31:17,540

So what am I going to do with this feedback?

454

00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:18,171

Right?

455

00:31:18,171 --> 00:31:27,704

And learning happens outside of classrooms because we were used to learn in the classroom

and go outside and then apply the learning.

456

00:31:27,704 --> 00:31:34,990

What entrepreneurship, for example, taught me and when I work with my clients is action is

your classroom

457

00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:39,663

and then reflecting on your actions is your learning curve.

458

00:31:39,663 --> 00:31:41,565

So it's the other way around.

459

00:31:41,565 --> 00:31:51,013

And if we take AI and we apply it into the way we were doing before, like classroom, AI

teach me this, AI teach me that, we will not move.

460

00:31:51,013 --> 00:31:54,176

Let's act, maybe use AI, and then discern.

461

00:31:54,176 --> 00:31:54,769

Yeah.

462

00:31:54,769 --> 00:31:56,143

It's what we do with that.

463

00:31:56,143 --> 00:31:57,056

It's what we do.

464

00:31:57,056 --> 00:31:58,169

How we are using it.

465

00:31:58,169 --> 00:32:02,860

I know that you are writing a book, The Billion Dollar Purpose, that is coming out this

year, 2025.

466

00:32:02,860 --> 00:32:11,258

And what has surprised you the most in the writing process of this book and how this

writing has stretched you as a creator and as a thinker?

467

00:32:11,258 --> 00:32:13,229

So the book is already out now.

468

00:32:13,229 --> 00:32:16,543

It's already available.

469

00:32:16,543 --> 00:32:23,718

And it took me, I thought at the beginning it will be a one to two month process and then

it took me 14 months.

470

00:32:23,718 --> 00:32:27,783

And the way I wrote it was through first interviews.

471

00:32:27,783 --> 00:32:34,700

So I interviewed CEO of big companies, uh founders of small to medium sized companies.

472

00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:37,332

more than 200 interviews across the world.

473

00:32:37,332 --> 00:32:48,249

And that was really powerful because we see that we are all different, but at the core,

it's more or less the same problems around if you want to scale, you cannot go alone.

474

00:32:48,249 --> 00:32:55,252

If you want to scale, you need also to scale yourself in order to scale your business, to

scale your own skills.

475

00:32:55,252 --> 00:32:56,191

And then...

476

00:32:56,191 --> 00:33:00,126

you need also to surround yourself with the right people and upskill them.

477

00:33:00,126 --> 00:33:09,083

So the link between the skills and the scaling, know, scale skills goes together, what was

really remarkable.

478

00:33:09,083 --> 00:33:13,788

And I felt like it was an unconscious bias, right?

479

00:33:13,788 --> 00:33:18,923

So people, when we talk now about scaling, we talk a lot about

480

00:33:18,923 --> 00:33:21,105

scaling means selling more.

481

00:33:21,105 --> 00:33:23,757

Scaling means doing more marketing.

482

00:33:23,757 --> 00:33:26,219

Scaling means more systems.

483

00:33:26,219 --> 00:33:29,944

And then we forget the core of what a business is.

484

00:33:29,944 --> 00:33:31,385

That is the value creation.

485

00:33:31,385 --> 00:33:37,509

In order to create the value, skills are at the core of value creation.

486

00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:41,142

So you can say whatever you want and spend your time selling.

487

00:33:41,142 --> 00:33:42,584

And this is the hustling mode.

488

00:33:42,584 --> 00:33:49,321

And then people come into your business and they're seeing that the value of what you're

offering is not good enough.

489

00:33:49,321 --> 00:33:54,707

So they will leave, they will buy one time, but they will not come back and they will not

recommend you.

490

00:33:54,707 --> 00:33:57,859

So you will spend your time hustling, trying to sell to someone else.

491

00:33:57,859 --> 00:34:07,088

This happens a lot of time and moving from the hustling culture to building strong

foundations is through building your own skills, building the skills of your team

492

00:34:07,088 --> 00:34:11,692

and making sure that you have the real value creation for your clients.

493

00:34:11,692 --> 00:34:22,980

So when your clients come, they have the great product, the great service, the great

customer journey, and you can also have more upsells because you have more value to

494

00:34:22,980 --> 00:34:23,812

provide them.

495

00:34:23,812 --> 00:34:30,863

So you can build a very successful business with less clients, but a bigger

496

00:34:30,863 --> 00:34:33,396

a life client lifetime value.

497

00:34:33,396 --> 00:34:36,210

And this is something that we don't talk about enough.

498

00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:44,368

And that's upskilling is the key to unlock this exponential growth, especially that it

compounds over time.

499

00:34:44,368 --> 00:34:49,173

So when you do your selling, it's like something it brings the results or doesn't bring

you the result.

500

00:34:49,173 --> 00:34:53,248

But your product, when you upscale yourself, when you upscale your team

501

00:34:53,248 --> 00:34:56,395

the sky is not even the limit of what you can create as a value for your customer.

502

00:34:56,395 --> 00:35:00,735

And then when everyone is talking about you, then the selling part becomes easier.

503

00:35:00,735 --> 00:35:07,900

We are all interested in building new skills and at the same time we have limiting ideas

and limiting beliefs around that.

504

00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:14,475

And my question for you is for someone who's building a skill can be in their business or

new language or side project.

505

00:35:14,475 --> 00:35:19,951

What's one belief about success that they might need to let go in order to really grow?

506

00:35:19,951 --> 00:35:20,352

Yes.

507

00:35:20,352 --> 00:35:22,163

The response is in your question.

508

00:35:22,163 --> 00:35:26,327

Is accepting to fail.

509

00:35:26,327 --> 00:35:27,714

Not so much about success.

510

00:35:27,714 --> 00:35:30,747

Yes, because you know, I mean what is success?

511

00:35:30,747 --> 00:35:31,327

What is success?

512

00:35:31,327 --> 00:35:34,166

It's like you've done it the first time and then said, it's not the way of doing it.

513

00:35:34,166 --> 00:35:36,331

Okay, let me learn, what do I learn from that?

514

00:35:36,331 --> 00:35:37,702

Okay, let me try another one.

515

00:35:37,702 --> 00:35:38,802

What did I learn from that?

516

00:35:38,802 --> 00:35:43,007

And when you overthink and you don't do the first step, then it's difficult to learn.

517

00:35:43,007 --> 00:35:53,737

It's like people want to move from babies to adults, but to go from baby to adult and like

even a baby, it just lies one day and like, oh, I know how to walk, no.

518

00:35:53,737 --> 00:35:55,419

They get up and then they fall.

519

00:35:55,419 --> 00:35:57,041

They get up and then they fall.

520

00:35:57,041 --> 00:35:59,374

And at some point they learn to walk.

521

00:35:59,374 --> 00:36:01,117

Then they learn how to speak.

522

00:36:01,117 --> 00:36:12,201

And somehow, I don't know, we have lost this along the way, thinking that being an adult,

it's going from zero to one on a skill and to go directly to success.

523

00:36:12,201 --> 00:36:14,534

But failures are the steps to success.

524

00:36:14,534 --> 00:36:17,547

And this is something I saw also in corporate jobs.

525

00:36:17,547 --> 00:36:18,078

I saw...

526

00:36:18,078 --> 00:36:21,893

Many people like saying, okay, I want to go to the next layer, corporate layer.

527

00:36:21,893 --> 00:36:26,268

So the way for me to do it is to succeed and not to fail.

528

00:36:26,268 --> 00:36:28,040

So they play in not to fail.

529

00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:34,019

But by playing not to fail, what they do is that actually they don't learn as much as

someone else.

530

00:36:34,019 --> 00:36:37,384

And they think that the career is linear.

531

00:36:37,384 --> 00:36:38,304

This is not true.

532

00:36:38,304 --> 00:36:40,937

It sounds like a safe game, but it's a dangerous game.

533

00:36:40,937 --> 00:36:51,298

It's a dangerous game because the person, I've seen uh an image when they put two balls,

one who is going linear like this, descending linear like this, and one which is in

534

00:36:51,298 --> 00:36:52,259

sinusoidal.

535

00:36:52,259 --> 00:36:56,634

And which ball arrives at the end the fastest?

536

00:36:56,634 --> 00:36:57,856

The one who's doing this.

537

00:36:57,856 --> 00:36:59,929

The one who's in sinusoidal.

538

00:36:59,929 --> 00:37:08,040

Actually, when you go linear, you think that you're going faster, but life doesn't work

this way, right?

539

00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:15,511

It's ups and downs that can give you exponential growth and compounded effects.

540

00:37:15,511 --> 00:37:18,902

So when you go in linear, you don't use this compounded effect.

541

00:37:18,902 --> 00:37:26,265

And compounded effects, would that be in finance, would that be in skills, would that be

in anything, is what really help us to skyrocket our growth.

542

00:37:26,265 --> 00:37:27,267

Thank you for that.

543

00:37:27,267 --> 00:37:32,453

And is there anything else you'd like to add to this conversation before completing?

544

00:37:32,453 --> 00:37:36,848

And I know that you have a resource that we are going to share at the end.

545

00:37:36,848 --> 00:37:41,215

And before getting there, is there anything else you'd like to add that we haven't

covered?

546

00:37:41,215 --> 00:37:43,288

No, I think we're good.

547

00:37:43,288 --> 00:37:44,611

It was a nice conversation.

548

00:37:44,611 --> 00:37:50,411

Especially, I love that because learning was always my first value on the list.

549

00:37:50,411 --> 00:37:51,158

It's mine too.

550

00:37:51,158 --> 00:37:52,141

Yeah, learning.

551

00:37:52,141 --> 00:37:53,526

Learn, right?

552

00:37:53,526 --> 00:37:55,140

Always the thing to learn.

553

00:37:55,140 --> 00:37:56,354

And you know what?

554

00:37:56,354 --> 00:37:59,202

Like I see that people who do things to learn

555

00:37:59,202 --> 00:38:02,331

Usually they succeed fast, success comes faster.

556

00:38:02,331 --> 00:38:04,496

And when you do things to succeed...

557

00:38:04,496 --> 00:38:07,051

then you're so focused on the wounded thing, right?

558

00:38:07,051 --> 00:38:12,411

That's when there is opportunity for learning to go faster, you're like, no, I don't have

time for that.

559

00:38:12,411 --> 00:38:13,373

I don't have time for that.

560

00:38:13,373 --> 00:38:15,787

I need to stay focused on my success.

561

00:38:15,787 --> 00:38:17,340

So you don't enjoy the process.

562

00:38:17,340 --> 00:38:20,652

And you don't take the leverages that learning can enable you to have.

563

00:38:20,652 --> 00:38:24,495

And the other way around, when you learn, actually you're having fun along the way.

564

00:38:24,495 --> 00:38:29,478

And then you arrive at some point and you're like, my God, I know how to do this already.

565

00:38:29,478 --> 00:38:32,416

I didn't know one day I would be able to do that.

566

00:38:32,416 --> 00:38:40,579

Even my English, for example, by practicing, sometimes I'm like, I have this new

vocabulary that I didn't know that I had in my mind.

567

00:38:40,579 --> 00:38:41,639

This is new.

568

00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:43,251

And I'm very happy about it.

569

00:38:43,251 --> 00:38:44,448

You surprise yourself.

570

00:38:44,448 --> 00:38:46,313

Yes, and this is what life is about.

571

00:38:46,313 --> 00:38:51,407

We love surprising ourselves and seeing new things and discovering.

572

00:38:51,407 --> 00:39:00,241

Yeah, when we are talking about nature and your kids, you are astonished about nature,

about your kids, about their sense of curiosity.

573

00:39:00,241 --> 00:39:03,360

And that's how we keep ourselves in that learning spirit.

574

00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,898

Yes, I want to add only one thing that just came to my mind.

575

00:39:06,898 --> 00:39:08,402

We can learn from anyone.

576

00:39:08,402 --> 00:39:08,983

Right?

577

00:39:08,983 --> 00:39:18,907

And this, I find it a lot in the corporate world and also in entrepreneurship when they're

like, I will not learn from this person because they don't have my results.

578

00:39:18,907 --> 00:39:20,479

They don't have my thing, they don't...

579

00:39:20,479 --> 00:39:22,834

And when I said I learned from my kids.

580

00:39:22,834 --> 00:39:26,709

You know, so we can learn from anyone but not anything.

581

00:39:26,709 --> 00:39:31,524

Each person from me is more advanced than us on something, for sure.

582

00:39:31,524 --> 00:39:35,708

So there is not something like comparison, someone is more advanced than the other.

583

00:39:35,708 --> 00:39:41,213

Each one of us is more advanced than the other on something because they focus on that

skill.

584

00:39:41,213 --> 00:39:45,438

And this curiosity to say, what can I learn from this person?

585

00:39:45,438 --> 00:39:49,841

It's what helps us to connect more, to listen more, and to grow faster.

586

00:39:49,841 --> 00:39:50,502

That's lovely.

587

00:39:50,502 --> 00:39:51,415

Thank you.

588

00:39:51,415 --> 00:39:57,367

And I can see your value, learning value shining there, your willingness to learn from

anyone.

589

00:39:57,367 --> 00:39:58,770

I can learn from anyone.

590

00:39:58,770 --> 00:39:59,642

That's beautiful.

591

00:39:59,642 --> 00:40:07,958

Leila, it was great having you on my podcast "Poder aprender." And there's a resource that

you have to share with my audience.

592

00:40:07,958 --> 00:40:10,883

Could you tell us more about that and what is this for?

593

00:40:10,883 --> 00:40:16,706

Yes, so the book is already out now, so you can have it if you want it on Amazon.

594

00:40:16,706 --> 00:40:17,376

It's on the link.

595

00:40:17,376 --> 00:40:21,898

And on the same link, there is a bonus that goes with the book.

596

00:40:21,898 --> 00:40:25,460

And the bonus is like all the cheat sheets of the book.

597

00:40:25,460 --> 00:40:34,705

If you want like to go directly to the cheat sheets and understand how to scale using the

skills, scaling your teams, scaling yourself, scaling your missions, scaling your

598

00:40:34,705 --> 00:40:37,737

adaptability, this is available for free as a resource.

599

00:40:37,737 --> 00:40:38,137

Thank you.

600

00:40:38,137 --> 00:40:43,202

Say they can find it as "The Billion Dollar Purpose", by Leila Lahbabi on Amazon.

601

00:40:43,202 --> 00:40:46,966

Great.

602

00:40:46,966 --> 00:40:47,481

Awesome.

603

00:40:47,481 --> 00:40:49,608

It was wonderful having you Leila.

604

00:40:49,608 --> 00:40:55,055

Thank you for sharing all your learnings and for your mindful presence with my audience.

605

00:40:55,055 --> 00:40:56,974

Thank you for welcoming me in your show.

606

00:40:56,974 --> 00:40:58,187

It was a pleasure.