Janice Porter: Hello, everyone and welcome to this week's episode of relationships rule. My guest this week is Carolyn Choate. And Carolyn and I met networking, of course, because that's what I do online on Zoom, because she's at the other side of the country she's in, I think, Maryland, Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland. And Carolyn is the founder of financially free author. She's known as the heart guided sales funnel builder. And I just remember meeting her and remembering her glasses, her red glasses, which are on top of her head right now, but you can't see that anyway, so it doesn't matter. She helps coaches, speakers and authors leverage their books after the launch to grow and scale their business. She's the host of the financially free author show has written books in a variety of genres and was publishing during the wild west of ebook publishing. When Kindle first came out, she loves all things marketing, tech, and systems. And something I just learned from this little bio is that Carolyn enjoys surprising people on zoom with her knee length hair, which she showed me and it definitely is very long, and she enjoys playing board games with her husband. What's your favorite board game? Carolyn?
Carolyn Choate: It's called Marvel legendary. Holding game, okay. Okay. word games are a whole other subculture now. And they come a long way from monopoly. I'll tell you.
Janice Porter: I know. But are they mostly like Comic Con type things like you said, Marvel, like the characters from Marvel and things like
Carolyn Choate: that. I'm not really that into superheroes, but I love the mechanics of how the game works. But there's just a theme for everyone. There's a theme. There's a game called obsession, which is like a Jane Austen style, like marrying off the people in your family to the proper people. So every kind of theme is out there.
Janice Porter: Interesting, because those games don't interest me at all. I play Scrabble, I will play and have played backgammon. Those are the kinds of board games that and you know checkers with the kids import. Connect for things
Carolyn Choate: you like to play Scrabble with my mom? Yeah, Scrabble. My husband actually. And I met at a board gaming night. So Oh, okay. That's for that.
Janice Porter: Yeah. Very cool. So, um, yes, I'm learning lots about you just in the little time we've had together and I also am fascinated with the world that that eludes me, I would say and that is funnels. Okay, funnels. I'm not telling me why funnels are so important. I think people get
Carolyn Choate: really intimidated by that word. And it doesn't help that there's a lot of ads out there that are like, do this thing without like complicated funnels, like, Oh, no funnel. But it really just laying out a path. And making sure that you are thinking through what takes people from a stranger that bumps into you on the internet to come and learn more about you to figuring out is this someone I want to work with to how to take that step to work with you, you want to be laying out these garden stone path stones, so that everybody can just go one step to the next step to the next step. They don't get confused, they don't get lost, they know where they're going, they don't fall between the cracks. And it automates so much of it so that you can really free up your time to promote one thing, the top of the funnel, because lots of people the top of the funnel, let them filter down that path, let them get to know you nurture them. And so much of that is happening automatically so that you're loved spending your time doing what you love and what you went into business for which was not sending emails one by one, right? Which
Janice Porter: is still what I do, okay? The thing though, is that I can see doing a path. But it's not just writing those emails, it's knowing how and what to write in those emails that are. How do you describe them their sales, their sales emails, right there, their sales inducing emails, and you're saying that all this path is before they buy anything from you? Yes, usually, yes. How long should that path be? How many email sequence in the sequence on that first go round?
Carolyn Choate: Everything is very custom. Okay, that you have to really know your ideal client, what motivates them what they're afraid of what they want and how to speak to them. And I think this is just part of my gift that when people tell me about their businesses, I'm able to see a pretty clear path of what would make sense to start with and to introduce you and to guide people. You can make an offer right away like on the thank you page, if you have, you know, you're giving away a piece of value in exchange for someone's email address, you can keep in touch with them. And they're really paying you, you know, some people feel like, oh my gosh, why am I giving away this important valuable thing for, for free. But yeah,
Janice Porter: story we should get into for a minute, but go ahead.
Carolyn Choate: And there's so much mindset around this. And email address and permission to contact someone is those that is currency. So have respect for that if somebody says yes to you, joining, joining your lists, that's enormous. So pour into them, give them value, and you can redirect them, after they've put their email address into a thank you page. And the thank you page is really, really, really valuable. Because sometimes people don't open that email with the thing that they asked for. They asked me to go wandering, but they don't. But they're gonna see that page ideal clients for you are going to see that page. So some people will put a low cost offer there something called a tripwire, where it's like a five to $7 item, I like to put a community space there. If you have a Facebook group or a mighty networks, that's a great opportunity to invite people to come further into community with you. Sometimes I put my youtube channel there so that people can come and follow and get to know me better. And then usually, my funnels, my welcome. funnel is only a few emails long, it's delivering the freebie that you promised. And then encouraging people to use it to make sure that they're actually opening it utilizing it, ask them questions about it, give them support and help because that's another sticking point where people download lots and lots of freebies, and I'm totally talking about myself right now. And say, Okay, I'm gonna get to that. So help to encourage them to get to it sooner, so that they can have that transformation that you want for them so they can see the thing that you want for them. And then you tell them a little bit more about you and what you love and are motivated by why you're doing what you're doing, why this matters to you, bring them into that vision of what you want to do for the world. And invite them to come along with you is whatever that next step is, which for most of my clients is, you know, get on Discovery call.
Janice Porter: Okay, so I just want to go back to that statement that you made earlier, about some people thinking the Why should I give this away kind of thing, and I can't believe it. But there are people today who think that way, how it's, you know, I'm all about relationship building. And for me, I really have gotten to believe more and more and more that just where the more you give away, the more comes back to you. Right. And even if you're giving away one of your, you know, training tips or tricks or whatever that you know, that they could use, and you usually get charged for that. They don't necessarily even remember it or know what to do with it at that given time. What they think they remember is that you were kind enough to do it. So isn't that more important than, you know, being limited and holding on to things? You know, do you have people that that start out that way with you and you kind of have to
Carolyn Choate: nurture now usually actually have the opposite? Because I love to work with gentle heart centered service first people, including myself, so we really struggled with the other side of it of wanting to give away everything for free. Or to charge people for this. I want that. Oh, yeah, that's a whole.
Janice Porter: Fair enough. Yeah, no, I can,
Carolyn Choate: whatever it is that you're giving away. You want to think of it in terms of that path? So is there something people need to know before they're going to be ready to say yes to your bigger offer? Is there some way that they need to become Is there a person they need to transform into to be ready for that? And that way, it's not like oh, I'm giving away my my secret sauce. It's I'm helping people become the person they need to be to want my secret sauce to ask for it. And it's again, super custom because for me as a as a service provider where I do done for you sales funnels. A lot of times I can give away every secret there is I can tell people exactly how to build a funnel, exactly what to put on it exactly what tech I use, and they still will hire me to do it because they get overwhelmed by hearing all these things. Give away everything and they still are like, Oh, that sounds like a lot. Maybe you should just
Janice Porter: do it. Maybe you should just do it for me. Yeah, exactly. So you have a quote on your website. you've poured your heart and soul into writing a book and the world needs to hear your message. But what happens when your sales fizzle out after the initial launch? Even getting to the initial launch can be, I think, quite not horrific, but quite. I don't know where to but intense, I guess. Right? So. So what what do you see? Do you see then that the that the book now needs another whole funnel around it after the initial launch is done is that what you were sort of thinking?
Carolyn Choate: Depends, but that's usually what I'm building for people. So yeah, we get really focused on the launch period of the book. And it takes a lot of our attention and energy, and we want it to be successful. And so we're just can't think beyond that moment. And there's a bit of a letdown afterwards, because we launched it. Okay, we got some sales, and then it doesn't last forever, it's going down and you are like, Hmm, well, I don't know what happens next, I just thought launch. That's it. I find that a lot of people, if they're writing a book to support their business, it very much connects with that larger offer with their paid services. And it makes for a great first step for people. So I usually will build a funnel that takes a chapter or an exercise a portion of value from the book, and use that as the list builder as getting people onto your email list and starting that email sequence. And, you know, again, depends thinking through when does it make sense to offer the whole book, a lot of times people will offer it as get the whole rest of the book as a free bonus when you sign up for this course, or something along those lines, and sometimes it doesn't. So, wherever you're always like imagining your ideal person stepping along that path and going, Okay, well, if I gave them this free exercise, then on the thank you page, they're probably not ready to buy the book yet, because they haven't even read that section yet. So what does make sense to offer them their what is a good next step for them before they've had a chance to read this chapter, or take advantage of this exercise. And this also works to for people who participate in multi authored books,
Janice Porter: read my mind, okay? Your chapter,
Carolyn Choate: you know, this is a nice, easier way to get yourself in a book without having to write the entire thing. And the publishers who put together these collaborative books are very supportive, they helped you a lot with getting to that launch. And they want, they want you to succeed, you know, so they're trying to help you with everything. And you can take that chapter and make that work for you list builder.
Janice Porter: haven't done that yet. Really, it's talk. So tell me, tell me how you got into this.
Carolyn Choate: How did you get into this little roundabout road? So when I was a teen, I decided that I wanted to be a novelist. I was really into reading and I thought I need to know what I'm going to do with the rest of my life by right now. But so I decided on that and I focused all my attention on it. And I got a bachelor's degree in creative writing. And I got a master's degree in professional creative writing. And it took me 10 years to write that first
Janice Porter: book. Oh, wow.
Carolyn Choate: And I ended up self publishing it as we talked about earlier, but what what I hadn't foreseen was, I can't make a living if I wrote a book every decade. I think a lot of people who are authors first, and that's not necessarily my clients, this may not see themselves as authors first. But people who do our I don't know, we get this impression that like, we'll write this really great American novel, and then rest on our laurels. And that's it. And that is not how it works at all. So it like it really derailed me. So in my early 20s, I was kind of lost adrift, like, Oh, I'm doing with my life anymore. And I tried so many different things. And I really was discouraged with myself. I felt like I'm not ambitious. I'm not a good worker, and I'm such an entitled brat. I'm a millennial. You know, I was so down on everything. And I have trouble staying with a job because I would learn everything and then I'd get bored and then I'd feel like I'm dying and I'd get out. And the cycle went on and on and on. Until I met my husband and we got married and we had children. I tried to be a stay at home mom. I thought maybe that's my path. Oh my gosh, it's so much harder than I thought it was gonna be. Like couldn't stop side hustling. I just was so fast. did with the internet and the internet didn't exist when I was a teenager really, it, it really came into fruition in my early 20s. And I was just so fascinated by all the ways that you can sort of weave this web around the internet. And so that eventually led me into networking and doing my own entrepreneurial stuff. And I was like, oh, it's not that I'm an entitled brat, or broken, I just have an entrepreneurial spirit, which no one in my family has ever had. I really didn't recognize it. And I really, really thrived with doing things my own way and making my own choices, and networking more and more. And I eventually I thought sales funnels are easy. I thought, this is the thing anybody can do. It's so simple. It's so obvious. And a lot of us do that I've discovered when we when we're talented at something, we just dismiss it as that's the stuff anybody could do. I'm not special, right? But you are special. And and when it comes easy to you, there are people that doesn't come easy to. And I just fell in love with building these funnels and a puzzle of how to put them together. And the thrill when you make it work. And when a piece of tech doesn't want to communicate and finally force it to and it feels great. It's a high
Janice Porter: was that actually I find really interesting that you are, you know, you're a writer, that's your formal training your formal education, you're a writer, and you also like tech, to me that like seems oxymoronic. And
Carolyn Choate: that really surprised me. I always saw myself as just a creative person, not a tech person. My brother is in it. And so he was like, it's the computer guy. It's the guy. Yeah. And once I started trying it, it just, it just all fell into place. And now my brother and I get to have conversations that everyone else around us is really talking about.
Janice Porter: Yeah. So I guess I have to ask this question, because it's so prevalent right now. But how do you see AI in the next 412?
Carolyn Choate: Question? I think we're gonna have to learn to adapt to it. Because you can't put things back, you know, once it's out there, it's out there, there's no stopping it, you can't put regulations and make, make it disappear. So we have to learn to figure out the best ways to move forward with it. I think that it can be a really valuable tool, but it's not going to replace your voice. And this is something that I fear for people that I think when you're intimidated about marketing, and think I need to find those magic words, I need to find that special marketing copy that's going to make people instantly want to buy. And so you turn to AI to write that copy for you. And you get this very generic very salesy kind of language. If that's not the magic key, the magic key is inside. You already
Janice Porter: played around with it already, then you have Yes, yeah. And can you see using it as a starting point for somebody, but you have to be very careful to, to maybe even I don't know, I mean, I played around with it, too. And I, I've used it as a starting point. But I think I think you'd have to be careful that I don't I don't even know like where the fine line is that makes it your own. You know, because if you if you're not comfortable writing, how can you have a voice? I guess you can say whether it sounds like you or not,
Carolyn Choate: that's basically got to put your heart into it. And you have to be not afraid to put your heart into it. You have to not think that the magic selling formula is somebody who's good at copywriting doing it for you. Yeah, it's really about having your authentic voice and heart in there. And to be okay with being vulnerable and authentic in your marketing copy. Because it resonates with people and it rivets them to you. Well,
Janice Porter: okay, so when you're writing those final pieces for somebody those emails, how are you them? How are you? They're Voicing is that your is that your gift? Or is that you working? Cuz you don't work with them? Right? You do it for them?
Carolyn Choate: It has evolved a little bit because at first I was doing these funnels in a single day. Okay, so I would just delivered the whole thing in one day because I like to hyper focus. But that didn't really leave room for people to have the revisions. So I'm doing it now in a week. so that I can write the copy and send it over and have the client look at it and make sure that it does feel like them. I am pretty good at mimicking people's voices. And that's something I developed in college actually, because we used to do these exercises of right, like this famous author, and I think the favorite one was on my birthday on him, Flannery O'Connor, she has a super unique voice, and it was so much fun to try to imitate her style.
Janice Porter: So we are trying to do that on with AI now. Right in the style. So, yes,
Carolyn Choate: it will work, maybe it will work. People are empowered to not think that they need to put what the AI said instead of what makes sense or feels right to them.
Janice Porter: Right? No, I agree. I'm not trying not, you know, trying to promote it in any way, shape, or form. But I think that it's a tool, another tool that but you know, it's going to have many repercussions for a lot of people who don't use it properly, or who plagiarize and so on so forth. Because it's hard not to, it's hard sometimes to not see that that's what you're doing right?
Carolyn Choate: Or like you don't stand out, you're not differentiating yourself, because you're using more generic language that is, right along the ways I use AI is for looking at keywords. Okay. Doing outlines, I outlined novels with it. Okay.
Janice Porter: That sounds like yeah, I outlined a chapter that I was asked to do in a book around the topic that I was talking about relationships, and, and it gave me sort of a framework that I could then a different one, like, I wanted something different than what I had before kind of thing. So yeah, it helps me because I'm, I can't start it. I once I get started, I'm okay. Yeah. Yeah, really interesting. And I know you work with a lot of coaches and speakers, authors, that kind of thing. So can you think of one client success that was so exciting that you had they had from doing their work with you, and you don't have to name names, but just an example. I think
Carolyn Choate: the real success comes from the relief of knowing that it's taken care of, and you've put it off, or you've thought maybe it follows something I should have. And so the the most glowing testimonials I get are all centered around this, I had all these pieces, and I didn't know how to put them together. And I spent years putting it off. And now I have a funnel. And I finally have this piece. So I don't have to worry about it anymore. It's taken care of. And so I love that.
Janice Porter: Nobody's called and said, Oh, you won't believe who just what just happened as a result of my first final piece or whatever. You know, they got no, no, it
Carolyn Choate: Hasn't been like you turn it on, and suddenly, you know, 500 Tearing down your door. Yeah, so gentler, I mean, you can do funnels that are a little bit more pushy. And maybe those work more like that ATM style, but more built on the relationship over time, building up that nurture, and recognizing that sometimes people come on your list and they aren't ready to buy from you for two or three years. Yeah, but when they are they remember you because they've been getting that nurturing content.
Janice Porter: Yeah, it's interesting that I noticed sometimes. Like I put out a just a newsletter, on a newsletter, an email every week, I try to do it every week about my latest podcast episode, you know, so that my list knows that there's a new one out there and whenever, and I don't think about the fact that nothing much happens with it until I get a call or a message that says, I want to introduce you to this person. I love getting your emails every week. Right? And so you know, that someone you know is now been triggered to make an introduction for someone or that kind of thing, because that just happened yesterday. And so you know that that comes from those emails that you send out.
But in a sense, what I'm getting what I'm trying to talk about here is that all of that however, to me, is passive. It's very passive and so the active the activity part is obviously you getting out there and and speaking to people and being network
Carolyn Choate: Fill Old the funnel doesn't work by itself. For the most part, there are ways to automate that. And it usually costs money, you know, you have to put ads into it, if you want it to just run by itself, you have to find some way of filling that funnel with people. So, but like I said earlier, it's nice to know that you can sort of focus on that one thing focus on getting people to say yes to a free thing. You don't have to be selling them because the funnel will do the selling for you.
Janice Porter: Right, right. So as an author, because I know you're a multi book author, as an author, what do you read? Do you read Do you read or do you listen or do you watch you
Carolyn Choate: I do read. My husband is dyslexic, so he listens to audiobooks more they put me to sleep. But we found this perfect balance where I read the books out loud, and we call it book on Carolyn,
Janice Porter: I love reading aloud. I totally love reading aloud. It helps.
Carolyn Choate: Yeah, it keeps me engaged and paying attention to it in that format. And it's great. I love it. So what kind of books do you read? We really like thrillers like psychological thrillers and mysteries. And, of course, I like romance. Love Story. I like the rom coms, like the light feeling chiclet style, and that I'd
Janice Porter: rather watch on movie. Yeah, but like, because I can watch it and do something else at the same time. Usually, right. Yeah. So do you listen to podcasts?
Carolyn Choate: I do. I love podcasts. And podcasts are actually where I started with the networking, which has led to so many amazing things for my business, I had no idea what was in store for me. But when I really first hung out my shingle on the internet, I said, I'm gonna go get on podcasts. So I started networking, to locate podcast interview opportunities. And the reason for that was, I used to listen to a Marketing podcast. And it was these two gals that would just talked about marketing. And it was so cozy and comfortable. You felt like you're just sitting in their living room. And I built up so much trust and just love with them, that when they announced that they had a product, I went out and bought it immediately. I shouldn't talk to anybody I just bought, it turns out the podcast, had stopped airing five years earlier. And I had no idea that what I was listening to was old. And the product didn't exist anymore. And I had to hunt them down on social media to get a reef. Oh, that's hysterical. And in that moment, I said, podcasts are powerful.
Janice Porter: They are definitely yes. Because they're out there forever, right? They're pretty much everwhere.
Carolyn Choate: They're forever. And people get to hear the authenticity of your voice and get to know you in this way that is
Janice Porter: podcasting so much. So let me ask you a couple of short questions. So one of the things that I have, I haven't done it for a while, actually now, but I was asking pretty much all of my guests one of these questions, but I'm gonna ask him, do you because I'm so curious. And you already know that? Do you believe that curiosity is innate, or learned? That's part one. And part two, is? What are you most curious about these days yourself?
Carolyn Choate: Oh, I love curiosity. I feel like if we're not staying curious, we're just dying. I think it's definitely a need, I think, yeah, human beings got to where we are now. Because we just get curious and ask questions and need to understand things and why why does that happen? You know, I see it with my seven year old.
Janice Porter: But I don't think they're all that. Well. I'm not. Everyone's like, and what are you most curious about today?
Carolyn Choate: I do think it's an eight. But maybe that's just the people that I hang out with.
Janice Porter: That's fine. No right or wrong answer. Definitely. You know, everyone knows
Carolyn Choate: About so many things. My mind is racing now. Curious, curious, curious. I love learning new things. So I'm always digging into stuff. I'm learning lots about book launching right now because I focus so much on the other side after the launch and people asking me for the launch part, if that's the part I'm thinking about. So I've been digging into that a lot. I've been digging into how to make better YouTube videos, video editing, photo manipulation, graphics, like all of that stuff I have never done because I've always been the words person. Really great time learning all that stuff and teaching myself a Photoshop knockoff, ironically called GIMP. And yeah. And just like my seven year old asked questions, and I say, I don't know the answer that let's go and try to find out. And so we tried to find out. He said, getting curious about language because I've been studying Hindi. And he watches me practicing my Hindi. And so we talked about where the language come from.
Janice Porter: Fantastic. Yeah. So you are a curious person. No question. Yes. Wow. All right. Last question. What would you what piece of advice? Would you give my audience who are like us entrepreneurs, small business owners, coaches, consultants, sales professionals? What would you say to them? What's your best business tip?
Carolyn Choate: Don't be afraid to be you. And to do it your own way. You're going to hear a lot of people say, this is the right way to do it. This is the only way this this none of these things are working. This is what's working now. Tune it all out, you know, in your heart, what makes sense for you and your audience? And what's authentic to you. And the marketing that works is the one that feels right
Janice Porter: to you. That's great. That's great advice. Thank you. And where can my audience get ahold of you? I'll put it. Of course,
Carolyn Choate: My website is financiallyfreeauthor.com. I also have a YouTube channel under that same name, where I put out lots of educational videos about both book marketing and funnels back.
Janice Porter: Okay, perfect. I'll be checking that out, too. So thank you. Thank you for spending the time with us today. And thank you for all of your advice about funnels because I know we hear it all the time. And it doesn't have to be complicated, but it does work. And so especially for books that as you said, they've already launched and then what we get more traction from it can do these things. So thank you.
Carolyn Choate: Some inspiration..
Janice Porter: Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you to my audience again for being here being loyal. And if you liked what you heard, please leave a review and a rating and don't forget to subscribe so you get the next episodes and remember to stay connected and be remembered.