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Erin Austin: Hey, welcome everyone
to this month's LinkedIn live.

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I have these every last Wednesday
of the month at noon Eastern.

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So just so a little housekeeping,
these are recorded and you can find the

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recording in three different places.

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One here on LinkedIn at my profile.

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I also have a YouTube channel, the
think beyond IP YouTube channel.

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I I don't have a link for
it, but we can get one later.

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and then it is also recorded as an
episode for my podcast, the hourly

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to exit podcast, which you can find
wherever you listen to your podcast.

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sometimes though, these
don't go as smoothly as.

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I would hope they would,
and I have to rerecord them.

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But generally, what we do today
will be part of the podcast as well.

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So, one thing about StreamYard
is it's completely one way.

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I can't see you out there.

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Please feel free to use the
comment boxes to say hi.

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And then also as I go through,
Please add your questions as well.

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Generally, I will talk to you for about
15 to 20 minutes about our topic of choice

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and then we'll have plenty of time for
questions and answers and in the event for

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some reason, I don't get to your question.

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I will make sure that I answer them.

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in the comments for this program.

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So, as we get started, of course,
I have to start with a little

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disclaimer that this is legal
information, but not legal advice.

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And it doesn't, create an
attorney client relationship.

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And so if you have specific questions
about your circumstances, then you do need

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to talk to a lawyer about those specifics.

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All right.

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So let us get started.

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today we're talking about
collaboration issues.

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I know a lot of you, ask me about, have
plans to collaborate with colleagues.

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I've collaborated with colleagues, maybe
even what he's listening right now.

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and there are a number of issues
that you want to think about,

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but collaboration is a great way
to leverage your own expertise.

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it is you're bringing your ideas.

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collaborating with somebody else
with, complimentary ideas that is

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very much the 1 plus 1 equals 3.

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and so, while we'll talk about a couple
of things to be mindful of, I do think

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they're very valuable and a great way
to leverage our intellectual property.

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So this is the 3rd step in, my audit
protect leverage framework where at

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the 1st step with audit, we make sure
that we own what we think we own.

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We don't want to infringe
other people's rights as we're

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creating our leveraged offers.

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1st, make sure we own everything when
we do have rights that are valuable.

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We want to make sure we're
protecting them using agreements

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and copyright registration.

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General.

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As appropriate and then leverage
and collaboration is 1 of

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those fantastic processes.

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So let's get going.

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as you know, surprise, absolutely.

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No.

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1, the main focus will be
the intellectual property.

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Elements of collaborations, but
it is curating a partnership.

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So there are lots of things
you need to think about.

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we can get very excited about our ideas
and we should be excited about them and

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who we're going to collaborate with.

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But we do need to be thinking really
kind of clearly and articulating

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what we expect to put into and
get out of that collaboration.

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And so these are just some of
the things I want to make sure

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that you're thinking about.

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As you enter a collaboration,
because it is creating

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essentially a general partnership.

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And so we'll talk about
more of that as we go on.

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But, it's not just, the fun times
that you're having during the webinar.

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There's a lot of stuff behind the
scenes that you also need to be thinking

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about when you enter a collaboration.

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Yeah, by the way, all this
stuff will be available to use.

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You'll have these slides.

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but let's, talk about
intellectual property.

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So there's 2, angles.

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We need to look at intellectual
property with our collaboration.

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1 is with respect to the
pre existing materials that.

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Each collaborator is bringing to the
collaboration and then the new materials

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that will be born from that collaboration.

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So, with our pre existing materials, I
mean, the reason you want to collaborate

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with someone is because they've
got some great process skill method

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training, something that, combined
with yours would make great result.

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And so.

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On the front end, you're going to
need to give each other permission

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to use your pre existing materials.

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And so you will want to make sure
that license is very clearly, always.

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I mean, won't say this again that
I want everything be in writing.

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Right?

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And signed by all the parties.

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but you want to make sure all
these things are very clearly.

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set forth, so you want to make sure
there are limits on how they can use it.

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You don't just give them a license
to do whatever they want to with

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your pre existing materials in
particular, not allowing sub licensing.

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This will become much more important
as we move through this, conversation

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and then mutual indemnification.

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If I, take something off of, chat GPT
or we're going there, I have something

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AI generated and then I contribute
it to the collaboration and I don't

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really have the rights to that.

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And that becomes a source of a claim.

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Then we would want to make sure.

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Everyone who's contributing to
the collaboration is standing

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behind the materials that they are
contributing to the collaboration.

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But the biggest thing, the thing
that surprises everyone the

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most is what happens with the
new materials that are created.

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kind of a funny concept that.

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In the absence of something in writing,
we're going to have something in

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writing, but I want to, put the fear of
intellectual property law in you that

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if you don't have something in writing,
what will happen is that the default

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is that each collaborator owns 100%.

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Of the new materials that are created,
and it's a strange concept, but it

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basically means that each person has
the same rights that 1 person would

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have if they owned it by themselves.

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So they each own 100 percent
so some of the terms that.

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All mean the same thing, the same
concept of joint ownership under

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intellectual property law, under
copyright law in particular.

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Co ownership, co author, joint author,
joint ownership, co copyright, joint work.

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They're all talking about the same
thing where the default under copyright

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law is that those co authors, co
collaborators Own 100 percent of the

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new materials that were created in
the absence of something in writing.

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so how does this happen?

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It happens when each party,
each collaborator makes a

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copyrightable contribution.

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I'm not going to talk about
what copyrightable is today,

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but you can, search, my.

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Prior linkedin lives or my
website for what copyrightable

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means, but it has to be.

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So if someone does give an, for instance,
if someone did contribute something

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that was in the public domain, that
would not be copyrightable that they

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would therefore not be a co owner.

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if somebody just contributed, a map of the
United States, that's not copyrightable.

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so it's someone's contributing
something that is copyrightable and

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to the final work, and it is the
intent of the parties that all the

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contributions will create a merged.

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Unified whole.

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And so what does that look like?

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An example here.

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2 people co create co author jointly
author and illustrated children's book.

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So 1 of the co authors provides the text.

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The other co author
provides the illustrations.

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So each will own 100 percent of the
entire,  so the writer doesn't own

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the text and the illustrator artist
doesn't own the illustrations.

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They each own 100 percent of the entire.

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And so, here you're like, okay,
well, I guess that's kind of makes

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sense because one's creating half
and the other one's creating half.

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Okay, that makes sense.

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What if 1 party does
75 percent of the work?

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Let's say it is a chapter book
so most of it is text and maybe

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at every chapter, there's an
illustration, part of the entire.

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whole of that book, what happens
then is still the same if each party

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contributes a copywritable, element
and, if it is intended to be created

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to create A single whole work that
will be, sold together as a unit.

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You still have each co creator owning
100 percent of the entire work.

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I have a question.

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I will go ahead and show it here, which
is what if someone contributes already

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copyrighted content, well, they have to.

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Own the rights to it.

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So I'm going to assume that
they own the rights to it.

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And that would be the same thing.

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remember that copyrights arise
at the moment of creation.

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So you might be creating something.

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So, it might be the preexisting
material that we talked about that

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you're licensing in, or it might be
something that you are contributing.

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As part of the joint work, and
so it will be 1 of the 2 buckets.

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So either you own it.

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It's pre existing and you're licensing it
and you need to own it or have the rights

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to contribute it or you are, maybe you're
creating a derivative of something, like,

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you have a course and you're contributing,
something that's derivative from it.

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So that would be, something new,
but based on something copyrighted.

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So 1 of the 2 is going To be the case,
so this is why we need collaboration

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agreements, because unless you
have an agreement to the contrary

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again, jointly, equally owned, no
matter who contributed how much.

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All right.

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So why does a big reason this matters?

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It's, the 100 percent is
kind of, okay, that's great.

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What does it mean as a practical
matter as a practical matter?

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It means that when each person owns
100 percent of the copyright, they

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can individually without consent
of the other co authors exploit it.

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The copyrights as if again, they
were a solo copyright owner, so they

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on their own without consent of the
other copyright owners can grant 2 3rd

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parties permission to use the work.

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it.

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Can only be non exclusive, but they
don't need the consent of other parties.

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They can sell, like if I own my
hundred percent of that work, I can

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sell my entire interest to someone.

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And now you have another joint
owner that you didn't know you're

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going to be in business with.

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and then you can create
derivatives from it as well.

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And so these.

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Are things that are the default
if you don't have a, collaboration

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agreement in place that, modifies
this, these are just some examples.

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Obviously, I mean, anything that a single
copyright owner can do  co copyright owner

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can do without consent of the others,
except grant exclusive rights or sell.

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The other thing is, or
sell the whole thing.

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they couldn't sell the whole
all the copyrights in the book.

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So.

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What we do have, we do still
have a duty to account to the

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other, owners for any profit.

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So I can take that illustrated
book and I can license, non

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exclusive rights for, all of.

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South America, to a publisher down there.

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I don't need to get consent from
the other co owners, but I do have

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to account and pay and share the
profits that I get from that license.

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and so again, you can't sell an exclusive
license to South America, but I can

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sell a non exclusive license to all of
South America, which obviously would

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affect the value of the entire property.

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So we want to make sure that
we have the vendor, we're on

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agreement on how to do that.

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what do we want to do if we are
thinking about doing a collaboration?

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One, we have the considerations that we
talked about up front, but specifically

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with respect to our intellectual
property rights, we want to make

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sure we are addressing, ownership.

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There might be a reason for one party to
Own 75 and the other own 25%, which is

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really important in the sense of, like,
how will revenues be split, which kind

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of goes to the revenue sharing as well.

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you want to have any limitations on use.

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can you create derivatives from it?

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Can you, license, parts of it
to, look at our example, South

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American publishing rights.

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And when, we talked about the pre
existing material, the beginning,

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what can be done with the rights
going in, if we haven't clearly.

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Set limits on what is being contributed
in preexisting material the sub

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licensing rights, then those would
pass through to my co owner and

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therefore to, who I sub license it
to and so it really starts at the

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beginning for any materials that you're
contributing, your preexisting materials.

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Controlling what happens on the
way in, and then your collaboration

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agreement will also control what
happens with the joint work and how

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it can be used, transferred, exploited
on the back end and revenue sharing.

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There may be reasons to
split revenue sharing.

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Maybe 1 person, wants to just get a flat
fee or something, and the other one's

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willing to take, risk on the upside.

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And so maybe you sell the rights,
publishing advance, one person gets

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100 percent of the publishing advance,
and the other person gets all of the

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royalties, because it's so, you can
do, I mean, these are agreements.

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There's not.

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any statutory issues, you
can make whatever deal makes

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sense for your collaboration.

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All right.

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So that is what I wanted
to talk to you guys about.

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I would love to get your questions
comments and, see, Is there

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anything else I can cover today?

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And by the way, again, if things
come up later, feel free to put it

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in the comments in LinkedIn, and
I will get those as you get normal

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comments and LinkedIn to any post.

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And I can, answer them there.

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I do welcome everyone to connect with me.

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If we're not already connected with me
on LinkedIn, please feel free to do that.

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And I also am happy to take.

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Suggestions for future LinkedIn
lives, I, like to talk about

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copyrights in particular and contracts
and how the two work together.

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today's is a perfect example
of how the two work together.

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the pre existing, was the 1st slide.

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I'm going to go back to it.

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We got a little bit of time.

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So, the pre existing materials, is when
we're coming together as a collaboration.

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I'm going to assume that each of
the collaborators has something

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valuable to bring to the table.

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That's why we are working together.

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Now, it might not be, it might be that
1 of the partners is just a fantastic

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facilitator or all of the materials to
be created within the collaboration.

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But if, for instance,
you you have a course.

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And you're bringing of the
course with you, and that will be

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incorporated into this collaboration.

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That's going to be maybe have,
like, a course on the Internet.

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That's kind of a DIY and you're
going to be doing a collaboration.

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That's going to be an all day summit.

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you're going to be taking some of
the materials from your course.

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And bringing it into this all day summit,
you will want to make sure that at

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the front end that you have a license,
which very clearly defines how the

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joint venture, how the collaboration
can use your preexisting materials.

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And it is especially important.

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It's always important when you have an
ultra property to have things in writing.

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but it's especially important because
the joint works that come out of the

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collaboration, what you're creating
for that all day seminar, for

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instance, that will be a joint work.

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you want to make sure that what the
co owners can now do with your pre

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existing materials has been limited.

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And so you've limited it at the front end.

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sometimes we forget to limit it
on the back end, but at least

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you've limited on the front end.

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So that's when starting negotiation for
collaboration agreement, how much do we

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want to spell out desired terms versus
asking counterpart to make suggestions?

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Well, a collaboration agreement
should really be that.

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I mean, if we go to the, Considerations,
you should start with the end in mind.

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I mean, you're a facilitators.

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I know, you know, what is it
that we want to get out of?

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Like, what do we want the transformation
to be with this collaboration?

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Or is each party bringing to it?

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And so someone can be the driver.

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Often there is a leader.

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I mean, it's not at all unusual
for 1 person to kind of drive the

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collaboration forward and they're really
kind of bringing multiple people in.

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Certainly that happens with summits
and things like that, where there's

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maybe 1 person driving and they're
bringing in other collaborators.

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but it depends on, who has a better
idea of where it's going to go.

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So if collaborator has the big
picture, and they're bringing in the

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resources that they need to, make
that big idea come alive, then they're

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going to start the negotiation.

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but sometimes it's 2 people who, go,
you know, we should work together

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you're going to do it together.

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sometimes it's not a collaboration.

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Sometimes it's literally just a license.

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It's literally could be that,
driving force will say who

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really just needs to get access.

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To somebody else's preexisting materials,
I wouldn't call that a collaboration.

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I would call that a license.

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but when I'm talking about collaboration,
like we're really working together to

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create the new joint work,  if that helps.

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All right, everyone will have
a wonderful rest of your day.

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and thanks for joining me.