[00:00:00] Hannah: Okay, real talk. When's the last time you actually paid attention to how you treat yourself when no one's watching? Not just the surface level self-care stuff, but the way you talk to yourself, the way you respond when things don't go as planned, the way you let yourself take up space. Because here is the thing, success isn't just about what you do.

It's about who you are to yourself when no one else is in the room. And today we're digging into that with Jessica Faith Grham, a counselor, mindfulness mentor, and children's book author whose work is all about compassionate communication, self-trust, and seeing the good in yourself. The world around you.

She has a Master's in Counseling and Psychotherapy, a mindfulness certification, and her book, the Love Inside helps kids, and let's be real adults too, understand that they are inherently worthy of love. We are flipping the script on hustle, culture, external validation, and that constant need. To prove yourself.

And yes, I might be asking for a friend because what if the secret to a fulfilling career, better opportunities and a life that actually fits you isn't about doing more? About trusting yourself more. This is one of those conversations that sticks with you. It certainly shook me in all the right ways. So grab a coffee, get comfy, and let's get into it.

Oh, and before we do. I know this isn't top of mind for you, but if you love this episode, leaving a quick rating or review would mean the world. It helps the show reach more quiet achievers like you and me, and it helps me bring on guests like Jessica. All right, let's dive in. Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today, and welcome to the Awfully Quiet Podcast.

[00:01:53] Jessica: Oh, thank you for having me.

[00:01:55] Hannah: I am really excited to be getting into all things self-love with you today. And before we do get into it, I wanna hear what is a quiet strength that has helped you in your career? This is a question I ask every guest on the podcast, but for you, I am really, really excited to learn. what is something that you know, might be an underestimated quiet strength that has really fueled your career journey?

[00:02:20] Jessica: Oh, that's such a wonderful question. I think my quiet strength is my ability to observe.

[00:02:27] Hannah: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:28] Jessica: my bachelor's degree is in fine arts and it was behind a camera and I loved to take it all in really observe. See what I could learn about. And I love to take photos of nature too. And so being in nature and observing the way nature moves and changes, I always found fascinating and I think it's something that I've learned to, to really use in my life as well.

[00:02:54] Hannah: I love that. And such a powerful POS position too, behind the car, behind the camera, behind the scenes, you know, sometimes underestimated, but we know that that's, this is where the real power lies and where you get to see, you know, what's going on and how you assemble things and pull it together into a beautiful moment.

So I love that one.

[00:03:15] Jessica: Thank you. That's a great question.

[00:03:17] Hannah: Talk to me a little bit about your career. I know you've been a stay at home mom, turn blogger turned, book author, turned therapist with your own private practice. Talk to me about your career journey so far and yeah, how you got pulled into the topic of, of self-love and how that kind of informed your journey.

[00:03:38] Jessica: I think if somebody had told me five years ago that I would be doing this, I, I don't think I would have understood that and how it would all play out. and so here I am today and. Self-love came about because of the work I did on myself. I would stay around 2021. This had been into the pandemic with three small children.

As a stay-at-home mom, I had a realization one day that I was on autopilot and I just wasn't as happy as I could be, and it hit me that I just needed some help. And what I realized is the help came from within. It came from myself that I was the one that needed to help myself. And I slowly started adding self-care, just really listening to what I needed, back into my day.

'cause I had just been in full caretaker mode of three, three children. And as I did this, it became kind of just this healing journey of what I needed and then understanding myself more, listening to myself more, and all of a sudden, from this. About nine months into this journey, I, one day just had this realization of, my goodness, my life is so much more fulfilled.

I'm feeling so great. I have to share this with others. How can I help others? And I didn't, I didn't necessarily know how to do that yet because I still had, my youngest was two at the time. And so all of a sudden I thought, well, you know, I'm just gonna have to give it some time. A few, about a month later, I was outside in the backyard.

The kids were playing and I just started writing. I grabbed my laptop and all of a sudden I thought, this might be my vehicle. Like this might be my way to reach others. And so slowly but surely, with the help of my great friend, who has a business mind, I was able to put the blog together. And during that time is when the book was written.

Did not know how to get a book out into the world yet. And so that was a whole nother venture. and then came opening up the private practice, which just happened. And so I, I, here I am, it was one thing after another. And so that's, would say this, this journey of is just something that I, I feel so compelled to share with others.

It's become like the mission behind my work.

[00:05:58] Hannah: I also love how it's a little bit unconventional because you talk about, you know, you being a stay-at-home mom with three children, I reckon that is already a super busy time and lots of things going on. So that journey of self-love somehow led you to, you know, achieve things that. You know, normally wouldn't come out of taking more time for yourself or tapping into what you really need.

Some of that self care, you've been able to add more things into your life through that journey, which is just so nice to see for everyone who is looking to build more of, you know, more of a career back into their lives again. And more of, you know, of a new endeavor. which, which I think is just beautiful.

What I wanna understand a little bit more is. What are the kind of things that you've done for self-love? Or what did that self-care look like for you? I think we often, kind of think of self-love as self-care and it's like pampering, you know, putting on a red light mask and going to reform of Pilates and, that's not necessarily it, is it?

So what are the kind of things that helped you tap back into yourself and into that self-love?

[00:07:09] Jessica: I think this. Is where my ability, as a mother really kind of came in. All of a sudden I started asking myself, what do I need? So simple, right? But I almost looked at it as, taking care of myself as a small child again, like the way that when I have a, a baby and you just, you anticipate their needs.

You look at them, you listen to them, you observe them. And I started to ask myself that question. And the first step, the first thing I needed was I wanted to carve out. Some time to walk in nature every day. And it was something I wasn't doing and it was so simple. Right? And that was the first step that I did.

And then the second thing was I started to add more music into my day. and I, that just felt great. I started to really pay more attention to the foods I was eating, cut out some caffeine. They were these little tweaks. And then one day it hit me. I needed to add meditation back into my. My world. I used to be big into meditation, and I hadn't done it for years.

And so the only time that really made sense to do this was to get up early in the morning. So I started setting the alarm 4 35 in the morning. 'cause that's when everybody in the house was asleep. And just using some guided meditations to. To really start that practice. And from there it led to journaling and some self-reflection.

And then I would add the walk in there. And so I kind of created this amazing morning routine that was starting off my day. And that just became such a sacred time for me. and that's how, that's how it got started

[00:08:43] Hannah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was this natural progression from what it sounds like. I think. When we think about self-care and self-love, we often go to where you ended up with like, oh, this is a list of 10 things that you should be doing at four 30 in the morning in order to, you know, take good care of yourself. And then it becomes more of a performative.

Matter than, than anything else. And it's also not necessarily what you need, but it's just, you know, what somebody else says is a great morning routine. So I love how you developed it from this one question of what is it that I need right now? And then you just started to do one thing and it developed over time and you carved out more and more.

But it wasn't so much that you felt like you needed to do it, but it was just what felt good for you at the time.

[00:09:35] Jessica: It did. It, it's so true. If somebody had told me you, this is what you need to be doing, well that wasn't have been coming from me and that's harder to keep up with, right? And so it was just this very much, oh, this feels so good. This is giving me so much more and this is exactly what I need.

[00:09:51] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:52] Jessica: was, just being able to listen to that was really amazing.

[00:09:56] Hannah: Yeah. And then you, you know, obvious, I understand how, you know, self-love became something that was really, really important to you. Why did you feel the need to explain it to children? What do you, why do you think self-love is such an, important concept for little kids to understand from early on?

[00:10:16] Jessica: Well, like I said, the more that I understood my own value, my own worth, and it really opened the door to this, this passion of writing. I was just so satisfied. And so one day I was reading, one of my favorite authors, Nu Han, teachings on Love. And he says in the book, you know, the first step we need to do is to know thyself.

Like really love ourselves and then we can go out and give that world to others, or I'm sorry, give that love to others in the world. And I was sitting right here at my desk reading it, taking notes, thinking in terms of me as an adult, and all of a sudden I thought. Am I teaching this to my children? and so I went and I asked my oldest, who was probably about seven or eight at the time, you know, how do you love yourself?

And she looked at me and she said, oh, I'm kind to others and I'm helpful. And I listen. And I thought, oh, wait, no, but what about yourself? And she couldn't answer this. And I thought, well, we, I haven't taught them this. And here I am. This is life changing for me. And so this became my mission to teach. To teach my children this, to teach all children this, and I think child in each of us too.

and, and I think the thing that I love about children is they're born with self-love. I mean, if you've ever watched a child watch themself in the mirror or the way that they know exactly what they want, they can say it. So it's really just kind of helping them to deepen that well and create that strong foundation of who they are, what they need, their unique characteristics that they bring into this world.

And we're all born with gifts and helping them understand it. And I felt like the more I could kind of create this really solid foundation in my children as they go out into the world and the world kind of starts, you know, coming in and can, can hurt that. self-worth that we have that value that we carry for ourselves.

And so maybe I thought, well, maybe this is the way to really kind of just create that just strong self-love within themselves. And then what kind of power, the more we go out and love more in the world that we could have.

[00:12:26] Hannah: Yeah. When I first approached this topic, I thought to myself, well, self-love, you know. Easy, like, and obviously like obviously a great topic for the podcast and for my audience, for myself. And the more I thought about it, I went, well, this is actually not that easy. It's actually not that easy a concept.

And if I had to describe it, I wouldn't really know where to start. So I would ask the expert here, how do you describe self-love in a way that a child understands? How do you make it simple? What's, you know, the complex thing, simple for self-love.

[00:13:03] Jessica: I would say self-love is the ability to listen to ourselves, understand ourselves. Know what we need and to be able to take care of ourselves. That's another thing I am, I often ask my children, what do you need right now? you know, are you taking care of yourself? How can we take care of this? And then the more that they just really understand how important they are, their worth, their value, and what they bring into this world.

That's self-love, in my opinion. That's understanding yourselves deeply, being able to listen ourselves. And I think in my book, one of the things that I, I have some questions of, you know, what do you like? Just simple questions. Who are, you know, what? What are your gifts? Like, look at these unique characteristics within yourself. those, love those. And then share them with the world. 'cause that's who you are.

[00:14:04] Hannah: Hmm. I love that because it starts with you. It, it's not something that you find outside or that, you know, there's, you know, no answer to be found in the outside world, but it's within you. And this like simple step of I. Listening to yourself. And I feel like that's potentially the thing that we learn to unlearn or that we, that we easily forget is to really tune into ourselves.

And, I think this is what of often happens during meditation that we start to really become aware of, of our thoughts and, and what's going on. And we become aware of some of the things that pop up for us and some of the things that we might need, but it's a little bit of a process to tune into. I often feel like.

It's this place inside of ourselves that we need to learn to tap into because it's not just kind of spending a few, you know, silent moments and then suddenly it all comes together. It can be quite scary to do it first, right? So I wonder how do you tap into yourself and into that inner knowing? How do you, you know, ask yourself, listen to yourself to really get to the bottom of what it is that you need.

[00:15:20] Jessica: You are right. It is a process. It's forever changing and it requires a lot of grace for ourselves. Right. And I think one of the biggest things is coming at it in a very non-judgmental way of. I'm gonna show up today and every day is different. Moments are different, right? We have different emotions, feelings, but it's gonna be that ability to just breathe, feel within ourselves, our body, understand that thoughts come and go.

Emotions come and go. and just really understanding more about the inner workings of our, of ourselves. being able, and you're right, it is scary when we start to go into that inner world. It's not a place we always want to go. It's not always. Fun or pretty. And I think it, it's just really that we're worth looking into what we need and what we want and being able to express that too.

So, I, I think it's just a forever changing path. It's, it's going to continue to flow.

[00:16:23] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:16:25] Jessica: Yeah.

[00:16:26] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it is that journey and it is something that we need to, you know, you know, learn to get back into, and I often feel like, especially from your story, the benefit of doing that is you uncovered so many things that you then started to build into your life, right? It wasn't like, it's almost like often we think of self-love and as in like, you know, you need to slow down.

You need to do less. But at the end of it, you didn't really do less. You built a lot of, you know, additional life into your day in terms of, you know, the book that you wrote, the blog, and then, you know, the private practice and so on. So it's not necessarily doing less or stopping to work or not pursuing anything anymore.

It's just understanding what are the right things and what is the value that you can bring. And I feel like, especially for introverts in my audience, this can be so, so game changing to really understand what it is that we want to be doing and starting from that place, because then it feels like, as you described it, things start to flow and things start to naturally evolve and start to happen and almost start to happen without you having to push for them.

And that feels really attractive to me.

[00:17:44] Jessica: Mm-hmm. Being able to follow where your energy's leading you is

[00:17:48] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:17:49] Jessica: You know, I think the biggest thing for me too is, and it's almost sad for me to say this, but it was like putting that that time into myself had become negotiable. It wasn't the priority. And when I started all this, what became non-negotiable then was putting that time into myself.

taking the time for myself. carving out, you know, and for me it was mornings 'cause I'm a morning person and that worked for me. And so it really, you're right, it was such a game changer and it wasn't taking away, but it was just adding more fulfillment for myself. And what came of it was just amazing.

[00:18:34] Hannah: It's a, it's when, when I think about it, it is quite different from what we normally think is, you know, the way to success or, you know, the way to become a published author or the way to start a business is, is usually through, you know, action and doing and, and the constant doing. I, I struggle with that because I often think that I constantly need to be doing.

In order to get where I wanna go in my career, in life. But from what it sounds like it is indeed not in doing, doing, doing, but it's more so in listening and tuning in and finding your, that space or that place inside of yourself where you feel grounded, where you know what you need, where you potentially.

Know what the next step is without necessarily being in action mode all the time. How do you feel about self-love as a potential, you know, fuel for, you know, success and for a career and like, almost like a little bit of a secret weapon for every, anyone who is looking to, you know, get unstuck and dial things up in their career.

[00:19:43] Jessica: Oh, I think it's paramount. I, I think it's one of the most important things we can do for ourself because we're uncovering our greatest gifts. we're allowing them to happen. We're, we're also giving ourself, we're, we're taking courage, right? And. It's gonna be brave and we're going to share those with the world.

And I can say as an introvert, that's not always something that I've felt comfortable doing. negative self-talk has probably stopped me more saying, who would wanna read this book? Or are you making a fool of yourself? You know, like, is this something you really wanna to the world? but then the more that I tap into that.

This is my passion. This is my, my mission now to get this out because it's helped me and I can help others and leaning into that. I've had just found this courage within myself. you know, I'll never forget when I first launched the blog, and this was back in 2022, I'm putting out this written word publicly to people.

I had never done anything like that before, and it was about three o'clock in the afternoon. I think the blog, the blog had launched probably 10:00 AM or. Somewhere in there by 3:00 PM in the afternoon, I went and I had to draw myself a bath. Take a bath, and just sit in the hot water because my nervous system was so out of whack.

Like, what in the world did I just do? I look back at that now and it's just funny to me like, 'cause that was just step one of learning how to put myself out there. And then, and now I can say. This many years later, I have some more skills and I have, you know, really just some more ability to kind of just, Nope, this is, this is my goal.

This is what I wanna do and this is, I'm just gonna keep moving forward with it. I think in terms of success for people, it's just, just giving them self, that ability to keep moving forward in your dreams and, and not letting anything stop you. 'cause the. There's a lot we can let stop us, right? If we're not checking off all of our boxes along the way of what we wanna get done.

But if we keep that belief within ourself, the movement keeps, we're gonna keep moving towards something.

[00:21:52] Hannah: Yeah. And to know that, well, you know, the way it looks like for others is very similar to. How it feels like for us, like when you describe that moment where you had to draw yourself a bath because you were just so overwhelmed, you know, it, it, it just makes you human and it makes it so relatable. And it's also, again, a sentiment toward testament to how well you know yourself.

So just understand, you know, what. I just need some time for myself. I just need to, you know, calm my nervous system and get through it. And I'm pretty sure this is how everyone does it. Whoever went out and did something that felt overwhelming or that put them out of their comfort zones, I'm, I'm pretty sure this is how people feel who, published books or who, you know, go on to, you know, achieve great things in their careers and in their lives.

And we often think. They just go through the motions without feeling that overwhelm or without feeling distressed. But it is likely like that for everyone, and it just feels really good to know that there are tools that we can then use to tap into. Like for me personally, I sometimes feel overwhelmed to really understand what I need at any given moment.

So I often. feel this, this exhaustion after like a full day at work or after, you know, having done something big that took a lot of energy out of me and. Often feel like, oh, I'm just gonna need to, you know, you know, succumb to the couch and like, watch some Netflix and just like, you know, eat some comfort food.

And I tend to believe that that might not be the best thing for me to do because it is not necessarily what I really need in that moment. But it is the only choice I, I know, or is, is just a habit that I'm, I'm used to. So in these, in these moments, What do you suggest people kind of do to, you know, bring themselves down to earth again or to like calm their nervous system?

Is there anything that you would suggest people try that they maybe haven't tried yet? You know, the usual self-care routines of like, you know, go do a workout or, you know, put your cell, you know, get a face mask or something. that may not work for anyone. for everyone equally.

[00:24:09] Jessica: I would say being able to understand that our breath holds great power. Tapping in that ability just to really breathe and calm our nervous system down. I mean, just. A simple, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, in, and 1, 2, 3, 4 out, and keep doing it for a bit. That can calm us down. There are times too, where even before meeting with you today, I needed to feel my feet on the ground, just take grounding as I was getting ready, right?

And just kind of tap into that grounding feeling, because I was getting quite nervous. And so, through breath, through grounding. those little tiny, just you can do them in the moment, right? Can really help us to kind of feel our body. I think too, if you need to take it a step further to use your five senses, using five senses to come into the present moment can be incredibly helpful.

So like, I have a cup of tea here, I can look at it right? I can't really hear much about it. Maybe I can hear the water hitting the, the, the side of the cup. I can smell the tea. And so going through all five senses can really bring us back into that present moment to kind of reset ourselves. And I think that can be super helpful.

[00:25:23] Hannah: Yeah, and it feels a lot simpler and it is actually something that you can do right away without really, you know, having to follow a certain routine or having to follow, you know, five different steps too. I. Get yourself back into that space where it's really just about grounding yourself in that moment, which is a beautiful sentiment.

[00:25:44] Jessica: Yeah. And just that we're, we're, we have everything we need, right? It isn't just the face mask that we need to get, but it's actually us. And I, I think for me to discover that that power that we hold within ourselves to be able to calm ourselves and to really help ourselves if we're willing to listen to what we need and try a few different things.

I think it's amazing.

[00:26:06] Hannah: Mm. Yeah. another thing I wanted to talk about is this feeling of having to prove ourselves, because this came up to me when I, when I started to prepare and when I started to look into when do I struggle with self love? And I also think that what I think I'm good at is self-confidence or this belief of, you know, I can do whatever I set my mind to.

Self-love is different for me sometimes because I feel like, especially as an introvert in the workplace, I often felt this need to prove myself over and over again because I would move teams or, you know, climb up the ladder if you wanna call it that, or you know, get new jobs. And with every new step I took.

Obviously the people around me changed and they didn't. The new people that I worked with didn't necessarily know how I worked or didn't know my credentials or that I was any good for that matter. So I often felt the need that I needed to hit the ground running and really prove myself and show my worth and the value that I bring to the table over and over again.

And I sometimes struggled with that because obviously that is almost like coming from a. Constant need to show my worth when I have that worth inside of me, right? That, that self-love should allow me to like just show up and feel like, well, I'm gonna, you know, bring value. You're gonna see in, in, in do time and do course.

And so that's something that I struggled with and, have been struggling with. Every step along the way. So I wonder how you feel about this sentiment of having to prove ourselves and how can we show ourselves some, some self love and how do we tap back into that when we're in these situations where we feel like we need to show everyone that we're any good and, and we're not, you know, might just be imposter syndrome as well a little bit.

[00:28:08] Jessica: Yeah, so I will first say that I too struggle with all of the above, right? I think we're all.

[00:28:16] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:28:17] Jessica: I am constantly working on this thing called perfectionism and trying to give myself a little bit more self-love in that area. And so I think one of the things that I heard you saying when you're saying I'm trying to prove myself is I.

The question that I kind of wrote down on my little piece of paper here is, where's your validation coming from inside yourself? Is it coming from outside yourself? Right. And to prove myself, I feel like that's looking for validation from outside. So if we're moving from a place of self-love, we have that validation within ourself.

We know our worth, we know our value, we know what we're bringing to the table. And in terms of a business setting. You now move with confidence, right? Because you know what you are bringing and that is just this deep ingrained ability within ourselves to say, if this doesn't work out, it wasn't meant to be, but something that will is, you know, we're, we're gonna get redirected in the right way

[00:29:19] Hannah: I often admire that in people with like relationships and. Some of the women who are just like, oh no, I don't deserve that. I'm gonna walk away from this guy, because I know my worth and I deserve more. Now, I've never been in a grave situation where that needed to be the case, but I would also not be a person like that.

I would often just kind of find the mistake with my, within myself and see, you know, whether, you know, maybe I'm the wrong person or if I were ever in a situation where I didn't thrive or do a great job, I would. I would, you know, be really hard on myself and, and not love myself. So I think that that, you know, where the validation comes from is super, super valid.

how do we make it come from inside and not from the outside?

[00:30:08] Jessica: This is a constant. Process. Right. I don't know that I have the key to unlock that. I wish I did. I think, I really think it's just about going back to the most important thing we can do is, is really honor ourselves, look at ourselves and realize that the one person that we have to take care of most in this world is ourselves.

[00:30:35] Hannah: Hmm.

[00:30:36] Jessica: and it's giving ourselves the grace. To understand that it is going to be a constant, process like everything in life.

[00:30:47] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:30:48] Jessica: there are, you know, we get into situations that maybe take us down a little bit and then we need to build that back up. and so I think it's just if, if we're willing to meet ourselves, and that's where for me, this morning routine.

Meet myself there every morning and what comes in my day. I can handle this, I can do this, and, and we need to reset too and be reflective and accept the situations we're in as well. I think acceptance is huge.

[00:31:16] Hannah: Hmm.

[00:31:16] Jessica: Not always.

[00:31:18] Hannah: But it's building that relationship with yourself. And one thing that you just said was, I meet myself there every morning and isn't that such a beautiful sentiment of like, obviously we're always around ourselves, but this is the time where you feel, where you likely feel closest with yourself or where you feel like you can tap into your feelings, your inner knowing what you need at any given moment.

And it's, it reminds me of something that you said at the start is, what would we want for our children? We wanna take care of our children. We take care of our partners, we take care of our friends and family. We wouldn't be speaking to them like that. We wouldn't be as critical to them. Although sometimes I am very critical, my partner.

but showing that love and that grace like we would to somebody else. It is also something that we need to relearn, right? Because the world out there is often about meeting expectations and, developing and growing and, you know, strengthening our skills and becoming better. And it, it, it often alludes to you need to be better, you need to be more.

You need to do, you need to grow beyond who you are currently at. You're not good enough. And so I think this is where it might be coming from. And so tapping back into the sentiment of, I'm gracious with myself, I'm doing the best I can, and I'm really proud of myself, of my progress and, and where I am. It, it takes some, it, it, it likely takes a little bit of time to get back into that.

And it's not something that we're ever being taught, is it?

[00:33:02] Jessica: No. No, and I think in terms too of looking at suc, what we view as successful and our goals for the future, I think what I've learned, because I can be very hard on myself and am I doing enough? Am, am I, am I reaching those goals? But if I can take a step back to and look, look and celebrate what I have achieved.

And give myself that, that that can become pretty important. And I think it's something we need to do. And then the other thing too is just so show some gratitude, for my day. That's, that's been another thing. At the end of the day, these are some things that have happened throughout my day that were really beautiful, really wonderful.

I think that just kind of helps too, to just be a great reminder

[00:33:56] Hannah: Yeah. What would you say happens to somebody who starts a practice like this or who, who, who starts to tap into themselves, really ask themselves the question? I. What do I need? And then slowly gives themselves more and more of it. Have you seen this with, people that you've worked with in your private practice, or can you talk about some of the, I don't wanna call it transformations, but some of the journeys you've been able to witness where self-love really come, came to life and became fruitful in others?

[00:34:29] Jessica: I think it's an ability to just kind of tap into your superpower. I really, because from it passions flow, you, your gifts become so much more apparent and then you start really feeling fulfilled in the work you're doing. and I think that's, that's just the most amazing ability to see in in, in others. And they really understand themselves and then they start moving from that place of confidence, but also just their passions, what they love to do. 'cause that gives us the energy. You know, when you were saying before earlier, oh, well you, you're not taking away things from your, your routine, you were adding more in.

But I think that's where we just have this abundant energy to keep wanting to do this because it, it feels so fulfilling to us.

[00:35:24] Hannah: Yeah, I think one of the things I, ask myself. In preparation, it's like, is it, is self-love, almost the antidote to burnout because it prevents us from getting into this space where we feel so disconnected from ourselves or we feel so far away from, from the present moment, from what we need and we're in con in a constant loop of pleasing somebody else, other people and, and not really taking care of ourselves.

which is super powerful and I don't think that I've ever heard that before, but I thought that, self-love could become this vehicle, not a vehicle, but could become the unlocker to, as you say, fulfillment and to putting out more into the world that is actually in line with what we wanna do. It's not meeting anybody else's expectations, but being.

You know, fully aligned with what it is that you actually enjoy doing and that you wanna put out in the world.

[00:36:24] Jessica: I love that. I think that's so important, and what you just reminded me too of there are times when I think as well recharging means. Netflix, some junk food, maybe a glass of

[00:36:39] Hannah: so glad you're.

[00:36:42] Jessica: and, and sometimes that is what I just need to recharge, right? That, but also there are some other tools that I can use that really help me to recharge and some better ways too.

But, but there is that wind down period. We all need that. And so there's, there's nothing wrong with that, but I just think the more that we can. Really fill that within ourselves. I, I've just seen such amazing growth happen, and just like I said, it becomes your superpower.

[00:37:15] Hannah: Mm. Yeah. And I often find that, this is what people struggle with in their careers is to really understand, you know, what is it that I do really, really well? What is my superpower? What is my strength that I have and that I bring out into the world? And, how do I. How do I find out? And it is that it is, you know, being really in tune with who you are, what you need, and then allowing yourself to grow in that space and finding out more and more over time.

But it, it's, it's starts so easy and it, and it feels like. It almost doesn't take any effort to, you know, go take a walk every day or spend a couple of minutes out outside or do some breathing exercises, whatever it is that helps us. So it starts, you know, it almost starts really, really small. It's very low key.

It's a, it's very subtle changes that you need to make to your day, but they compound over time and they become really, really powerful and it feels like. It is probably something that those who we admire for their career trajectories and their journeys do, yeah, do, that's what they do. But the way we often talk about it is like, you know, you need the 5:00 PM morning ritual.

You need these 10 things in the morning in order to get there, but this is not actually what we need. It's that first question of. What is it that's going to, you know, do it for me and what is that first step that I take?

[00:38:48] Jessica: I think you're right of listening to what we need and I I kind of, as you were talking too, I was thinking in my, my head about, well, some of the most people that I view as successful, they have solid routines. Is built in. And they, you know, I think so many people will say, oh, I work out every morning. Like, that's, and that is their, that's their fuel, that's how they recharge.

and it is just this non-negotiable time for them. And they have it built into their day. They have something built in at night. just a very structured routine too, that they know they need and they honor that, and it's just, that's not going to move in their, their day. and so I was talking, I was on a podcast just the other day with two people who work out every day and I asked them, well, is your workout negotiable?

And they both, no, no. And I said, well, there's your self care right there. Like that is built into your day. And so they thought, oh, well that, that's a great way of looking at it, that, you know, while it may be meditation for one person, it could be this workout in the gym for the other person that gets their energy going.

[00:39:57] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. And, it, it's not something that we do again, to be, you know, performative or disciplined to a point, or where we think like, you know, I have this huge fitness goal, or wanna lose weight or whatever it is. Therefore, I hit the gym every day. I. That's likely not going to be sustainable. That, but there is something that happens there that has you come back and just reminded me of, I started going to, cycling classes about almost two years ago, and there are high energy classes, loud music, dark rooms.

And I'm just enjoying myself to the max. I, I wasn't ever really able to put a finger on what it was that had me come back. Obviously, I love a great workout. It's short, quick, and then I kind of love the vibe there. There's no phones in there and you can't really think of anything else other than this workout.

So you, you really are just in the moment, and I always thought. That's what it is. But now that we are talking, it's also this feeling of, I really feel like myself when I'm there, I feel like I can let it all out. I don't think about what anyone else thinks of me. I just kind of feel like I'm in the right space and like I'm meeting myself there.

[00:41:13] Jessica: Yeah.

[00:41:13] Hannah: And it's really, really beautiful because that is true for a couple of other places that I can just think about. And, it's a new way of framing it. And, and now it helps me understand why I love to go there and why I keep coming back. It's not because, again, I wanna go to workouts three to four times a week.

It, it's not that, it's, I meet myself there.

[00:41:35] Jessica: I love that. I absolutely love that. My best friend, she does a really hard workout every morning too, and she, she told me, she said, this is the one time in my day where I don't think about my work. I don't think about my phone. I just focus on what I am doing. In that moment, I'm breathing. I'm, you know, she feels strong.

She feels good within herself and that's what she needs. As you were talking about a cycling class, I remember I went to one, one time, literally put my head down on the bike and thought, this is torture. Right. We all need something different, and for me it's getting outside in nature and walking with some music sometimes too, and that is where I just, I recharge.

I need that, and it is so important to me to do it.

[00:42:22] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:42:23] Jessica: Then I find too, I can just be so much more creative throughout my day once I give that to myself.

[00:42:29] Hannah: do you feel like you are, like during the day when things get chaotic, Erica, you have kids? I'm sure. Not every moment in the day looks like that. or, you know, if we think about a stressful day at work, lots of meetings back to backs and called, and all the things that. may cause stress or overwhelm, especially in these moments.

I sometimes find it hard to get back to myself, and, and to regulate the feelings that I have. And I often feel like in those high energy moments, it's also really difficult to. Breathe and to, to ground myself because it, it just feels like it's not possible. Do you have that ability to like go to this place throughout the day, like find the safe space inside of yourself where you are just like zen for a moment and then you can crack on?

I can.

[00:43:22] Jessica: So it's a practice, right? And it's something I have to continually practice at. But when I was doing my mindfulness training. Our greatest tool is the most simple thing, and it's to learn how to pause when we find ourselves getting so overwhelmed or there's so much chaos going on and, you know, to really just kind of take that moment to pause before we react.

A simple pause. And that can be a game changer. It doesn't always, you know, I don't always remember it. There are times where I react and I'm quick and I, I really wish I would've put that pause in there. especially when it comes to trying to get my kids out the door. Three things going on at once.

And, but if I use that tool to just simply pause for a minute. How can I come at this a little differently or a little bit calmer? How can I go into the situation in a way that I'm going to feel good about at the end of it? Because I think sometimes, you know, we just get too high, high up and it's too much.

And then my quick reaction is to, get too loud. We need to go, we, you know, with my kids and that doesn't make me feel good. And so if I can remember that pause, it is, it's a game changer.

[00:44:39] Hannah: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. And this being yourself. It. It sounds so simple, but it can be the hardest thing in the world to do and I often, I often remember moments where I haven't been myself, even at work. I've had a couple of, obviously always meetings where things get heated or you disagree, and then I.

You kind of say something or you say nothing, or you act snappy. Well, that's happened to me. And then afterwards I went, I wish I would've handled that with a little bit more grace because I am usually a very calm person, not emotional at all. So I take a, I'm very hard on myself when I'm not able to, to bring that because my usual self is very calm and Yeah, calm, but it is not often easy to to be like that in every situation. So I feel like. Pausing and coming back to ourselves, taking a couple of breaths and like both feet on the floor can really help to anchor into how do I wanna show up? Because at the end of the day, I think that is really, really important for not only for us and how we feel about what we do day in and day out, but also in the way we're being perceived in the workplace.

And then, you know, in family life with our friends.

[00:46:00] Jessica: I think it's remembering that we're human too, allowing ourself to, you know, that just that we do make mistakes and I have a great amount of forgiveness for myself, I

[00:46:14] Hannah: Hmm.

[00:46:14] Jessica: election that we all have too. After we've had those moments where we're like, oh, that. It didn't go as well as I had hoped. I, I wish I would've done that a little differently or I could have done that better.

And I think sometimes we can start getting into that rumination too, but just really kind of looking at it from, okay, I did the best I could in this situation. Sure, I could have tried this, but if we can come at it too with a little bit of grace for ourselves, like you said, a little bit of forgiveness for the situation and. Just learn from it. I think the more we can learn from it and let it go in that non-judgmental way, it can. We can use that to a powerful way too.

[00:46:55] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:46:56] Jessica: have let it go too, which isn't all.

[00:46:59] Hannah: I think that's another thing, honestly, that's, a way to succeed or a way to, obviously become better and better at what we're doing because I. All of that requires us to get into places where we haven't been before, do things that we haven't done before. And as you said, you wrote the book and then you needed to publish it, and that was a whole other muscle and a whole other skill that you needed to figure out.

So, you know, you could either be hard on yourself and give yourself a hard time for not knowing or for potentially having difficulty figuring it out because it requires. Skills that you may not have, I'm just assuming. but it could also, you could also be coming from a place of, you know what? I'm human figuring this out for the first time.

I'm not the only one who struggles with this, so how can I approach this? And I feel like, this is also a secret to success and likely how. You approach it in a way that gets you really, really far instead of just being hard on yourself all the time. How did you approach that in these situations? Like I think you also shared that you've had to lean into some fears along the way in order to unlock some of these things that you've been able to achieve.

[00:48:17] Jessica: yeah, so I mean, being outta the workplace for 10 years and entering it again. I will tell you basic things that even when it comes to on my computer, and I can be so hard on myself, but why didn't I know this? How come I didn't do this or the first time doing something again too? You know, we have to allow ourselves that grace just to, it's not always gonna go as we had hoped.

Right. so leaning into. Just that ability to give ourselves the courage to do it has become huge. And this is often where, when I am struggling with, you know, can I do this better? Can I, how can I do this? It really becomes am I acting outta love or am I acting outta fear? And if I act out of love for myself, knowing I'm going to go into this, this, this is.

Why I'm doing this because I wanna help others. This is my goal. How can I move forward in that direction? Versus, oh, they're gonna laugh at me. I can't do this. I didn't come prepared enough. I don't know how to do that slideshow. You know, things like that. So, which 1:00 AM I gonna choose? It can go through the love, or I can go through the fear.

Well, the fear's gonna beat me up. It's not probably, I'm not gonna perform as well,

[00:49:44] Hannah: mm.

[00:49:44] Jessica: if. Place of acting out of love, I often can, the wells deeper, the confidence is there, right? I think better things can happen when I move from that place.

[00:49:58] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:00] Jessica: easy to allow our fears to take over and stop us, and so that's, that's been something I've had to teach myself too.

[00:50:09] Hannah: Such a powerful thing to ask yourself, am I acting out of love or out of fear? What is, what is driving me right now? Who is, who is in charge here? Is it love or is it fear? And I reckon it can, you know, fear can easily become an autopilot. I. 'cause it helps us and because it's what we're naturally, you know, obviously, you know Yeah.

Where we naturally gravitate towards in order to protect ourselves. And I, I also learned that obviously some of the thoughts that we keep having and some of the things that keep coming back us are there to keep us where we are and are there to keep us safe and sound in the same space where we were before.

And, Yeah, it's breaking out of that can cause some fear, but love can always guide us to take one step after another and to Yeah. Have, have a little bit of grace. I love that. I feel like most of what I'm normally gravitating towards in terms of career advice and in terms of how do you get ahead and how do you, you know, grow as, as a person and in your career is often like. Functional skills, technical things like you need to do this, and then this and then this. And what we've talked about today is all a lot softer, a lot smoother, and those things can easily feel like they're not important. It's like soft skills, you know? You don't, nobody cares. But I think without it. None of the functional skills on of the technical skills will get you anywhere, because without it, you're just gonna trip yourself up at some point and you know, potentially go off in the wrong direction to begin with.

So it sounds soft and it can feel really intangible, but I do believe that this is the first step that anyone should take in their career journey.

[00:52:05] Jessica: I think I was listening to one of your podcasts where you talked about your own career journey.

[00:52:09] Hannah: Hmm.

[00:52:11] Jessica: You know, I think you said you, you were, you want, you were here, but you wanted to be here. you right? Like, I mean, you figured out how to do that and that take a lot of courage within yourself, a lot yourself, to keep speaking up, to keep taking those steps in the direction you wanted to go in.

[00:52:31] Hannah: Mm. But I always thought that courage was like rah and, and big and bold, and like being loud and voicing, you know, voicing what you wanted and going out and getting it. And this is a lot more, this is a lot softer. This is a lot more, you know, listen to yourself, tune into what you need. And I've not done that enough.

And I feel like you can get places with. The big, loud, bold, and exerting yourself, you, but there is a certain ceiling to that at which it just doesn't work anymore. And I feel like you have just such a beautiful example of a career journey where I. You've really unlocked that. You've really pushed the door open and then things started to happen.

And I often feel like this is, this is something that I'm striving for in my career. This is something that I would love for things to come to me because I'm putting out a certain energy and I feel in alignment. So yeah, it is beautiful.

[00:53:38] Jessica: Reminded me of my mom, who is, she was a teacher and she always used to tell me, to speak quietly when the class got really loud and just keep quiet voice. She would practice that and do that. And I think that takes so much. just restraint. She's a very strong person, but she, she, that's how she would get her class to calm down.

and I just always thought to be able to have that power within yourself is really an unbelievable

[00:54:08] Hannah: I think that must be the best advice I ever heard of, and I'm pretty sure it works the same in the corporate world or in any workplace setting where it gets loud and you know, many different voices. And I am, I'm convinced of that. And this is what I often talk about is that, you know, using your calm and your quiet.

As, as a power and, and, and staying calm in these situations. And you don't have to be the loudest in those rooms. but these are just tools in which you show up in the world and the sentiment of self-love is the work that you do with yourself and, and is a lot of inner work. Right. Before we wrap up, Jessica, what is something that you'd want the audience to take away?

What is something that. You'd like your children to understand, or any child that get reads your book and you know, looks at those pages and what, what is the kind of sentiment that you want to want people to take away from, from the book and from the work that you do on self love?

[00:55:11] Jessica: I would just say to believe within, to believe in yourself and know that you have the ability within yourself if you're willing to listen and take that time to create the life that makes most sense for you and is most aligned with what you desire and want. that's, that's what just came to.

[00:55:30] Hannah: I love that. Where can every, everyone find you, reach out to you, buy your book. I've just seen it's an Amazon bestseller already, so congratulations for that. And I'm loving everything about it. And honestly, I think it's going to make such a difference for every child exposed to it and learning the concept of self-love, because I think then they'll send a chance of.

Carrying this through into adulthood and not losing it as, some of us did. Mm-hmm.

[00:56:03] Jessica: so I love that you captured that, and thank you for the opportunity to be here today to talk about it. they can, you can find me on my website, which is my name, jessica faith graham.com, and the book is for sale on Amazon as well. Thank

[00:56:17] Hannah: Thank you so much for joining me, Jessica. I had such a good time talking to you. I learned so much. I, I can tell I'll still be sitting with this all night, but yeah. Thank you so much for coming and yeah, sharing so much of your wisdom with us.

[00:56:34] Jessica: Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been great.

[00:56:37] Hannah: Wonderful.