1 00:00:16,698 --> 00:00:19,368 Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points. 2 00:00:19,788 --> 00:00:20,958 I'm DJ Sir Daniel. 3 00:00:21,791 --> 00:00:24,911 Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government 4 00:00:24,911 --> 00:00:26,621 as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. 5 00:00:28,121 --> 00:00:29,801 How you doing, sir Daniel? 6 00:00:30,603 --> 00:00:31,743 Sir Daniel: I am fantastic. 7 00:00:31,743 --> 00:00:35,883 Happy to be, um, doing another episode of Queue Points podcast, dropping 8 00:00:35,883 --> 00:00:37,713 the needle on black music history. 9 00:00:38,133 --> 00:00:40,983 Now, Jay Ray, we've been wanting to, we've been dancing around this 10 00:00:40,983 --> 00:00:43,368 subject for a minute now, and. 11 00:00:44,494 --> 00:00:49,174 We just, We discovered, um, a young man by the name of Calvin Michaels and he is 12 00:00:49,174 --> 00:00:54,094 a musician in his own right and has his own, a very interesting story of his own. 13 00:00:54,334 --> 00:00:55,114 So we were like. 14 00:00:55,654 --> 00:01:00,424 Let's just kill two birds with one stone and just chat with Mike, chat with Calvin 15 00:01:00,454 --> 00:01:05,704 and see if he could help the uncles out the OGs out with any information. 16 00:01:05,944 --> 00:01:08,554 But Jay Ray, let's introduce our guest to the audience. 17 00:01:09,222 --> 00:01:09,502 Jay Ray: Absolutely. 18 00:01:09,502 --> 00:01:12,237 Y'all, we are so excited 19 00:01:12,297 --> 00:01:15,507 to welcome Calvin Michaels to Queue Points. 20 00:01:15,927 --> 00:01:17,667 Calvin, welcome to the show. 21 00:01:17,667 --> 00:01:18,417 How you doing? 22 00:01:18,417 --> 00:01:18,477 Hey. 23 00:01:19,070 --> 00:01:19,850 Calvin Michaels: Hey guys. 24 00:01:19,850 --> 00:01:20,180 Happy. 25 00:01:20,180 --> 00:01:20,330 What? 26 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:20,930 What's today? 27 00:01:21,050 --> 00:01:21,560 Wednesday? 28 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:22,460 Happy Wednesday. 29 00:01:22,532 --> 00:01:22,882 Jay Ray: Right. 30 00:01:23,689 --> 00:01:24,919 Sir Daniel: It's a blur, it's 31 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:25,880 Calvin Michaels: It's, it's a blur. 32 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,170 We all just making it right. 33 00:01:27,732 --> 00:01:28,082 Jay Ray: We're 34 00:01:29,599 --> 00:01:30,349 Sir Daniel: Absolutely. 35 00:01:30,649 --> 00:01:35,449 Calvin, you're, you're, um, you're tuning in, or this is beaming in, I should say, 36 00:01:35,449 --> 00:01:42,769 from chocolate city itself, Washington DC And we, with, as far as music is 37 00:01:42,769 --> 00:01:48,289 concerned, as I just saw something recently, um, that was talking about. 38 00:01:48,804 --> 00:01:51,924 Gogo, I think it's something that came up on my social media feed. 39 00:01:52,254 --> 00:01:59,814 Feed about the power of Gogo and how, of course, you know, Gogo is very 40 00:01:59,994 --> 00:02:06,204 germane to Washington dc but tell us about what influence DC has on 41 00:02:06,204 --> 00:02:09,564 you as a musician and your artistry. 42 00:02:10,895 --> 00:02:14,315 Calvin Michaels: You know, I'll definitely say, especially when it comes to go, go. 43 00:02:15,185 --> 00:02:19,655 You really have to be at a live, go-go to really get it. 44 00:02:19,655 --> 00:02:23,255 Because I'm originally from the other Washington, like Washington State. 45 00:02:23,375 --> 00:02:26,885 Uh, my parents were military, so we bounced and moved around, but I moved 46 00:02:26,885 --> 00:02:28,505 here for college and just never left. 47 00:02:28,925 --> 00:02:35,795 And um, I remember I. When I was first hearing, like, what Go-Go was from 48 00:02:35,795 --> 00:02:40,115 Washington State, I was being told, oh, just think of like the Rich Harrison stuff 49 00:02:40,115 --> 00:02:42,185 that he does with Beyonce and Amarie. 50 00:02:42,190 --> 00:02:43,115 So I was like, oh, okay. 51 00:02:43,175 --> 00:02:43,565 All right. 52 00:02:43,565 --> 00:02:45,185 You know, I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna good to DC it's gonna 53 00:02:45,185 --> 00:02:46,715 be 21 things on the radio. 54 00:02:47,045 --> 00:02:50,195 And then, um, when I got here, I remember we were at a club and then they 55 00:02:50,195 --> 00:02:53,885 started playing like these different tracks, and at first I couldn't 56 00:02:54,005 --> 00:02:57,965 quite gather what I was experiencing. 57 00:02:57,965 --> 00:02:58,145 It. 58 00:02:58,145 --> 00:03:00,035 It wasn't bad or anything, it was just so. 59 00:03:00,395 --> 00:03:00,905 Different. 60 00:03:01,325 --> 00:03:01,715 Right? 61 00:03:01,895 --> 00:03:03,365 Give it two, three weeks later. 62 00:03:03,395 --> 00:03:05,435 Oh, I was in there and probably knew every word, every song. 63 00:03:05,435 --> 00:03:09,575 I think what it is is Gogo just has, there's this richness in this raw. 64 00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:14,720 Um, essence to it, where it, it really is what I say, a genre 65 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,190 that has never been watered down. 66 00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:18,410 It's still in its original element. 67 00:03:18,410 --> 00:03:22,460 And, and even though it's kind of, um, evolved into different forms, 'cause you 68 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:25,910 have kind of like your pocket go-go, you have, um, you, you have these different 69 00:03:25,910 --> 00:03:28,400 versions where there's something that's a bit more energetic, some that's 70 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,470 real smooth and, and subtle, but it, there's just, when I say it's just an 71 00:03:33,470 --> 00:03:39,230 unapologetically black genre and it's so representative of not only just. 72 00:03:39,545 --> 00:03:44,825 The Washington DC area, but just culture here, um, where we are collectively 73 00:03:44,855 --> 00:03:49,355 in whatever times are taking place in the United States politically, or it 74 00:03:49,355 --> 00:03:50,915 just, it's a reflection of all of that. 75 00:03:50,915 --> 00:03:55,235 So as far as it correlating to my sound, um, what I've always appreciated about 76 00:03:55,235 --> 00:03:59,285 Gogo is that it doesn't matter how old the song is, none of the songs ever sound 77 00:03:59,285 --> 00:04:01,295 old because it's all live instrumentation. 78 00:04:01,475 --> 00:04:03,365 And I've noticed with music. 79 00:04:04,085 --> 00:04:06,365 Songs that are recorded with live instrumentation 80 00:04:06,365 --> 00:04:08,525 versus samples in, in studio. 81 00:04:08,735 --> 00:04:09,875 Um, never sound old. 82 00:04:09,875 --> 00:04:14,105 So if you take like a brand new heavies never stop, which is from 30 years, 83 00:04:14,127 --> 00:04:15,477 Jay Ray: 30 years, 30 plus 84 00:04:15,650 --> 00:04:17,900 Calvin Michaels: will always sound fresh. 85 00:04:17,990 --> 00:04:20,960 No matter how many times you put it on, that's go-go. 86 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:24,530 I think, and I, I always tell people, you really won't get it until you 87 00:04:24,530 --> 00:04:25,850 are there and hear it in person. 88 00:04:25,850 --> 00:04:26,990 'cause it's a different kind of energy. 89 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,990 It's something that I don't think you can translate the same way 90 00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:34,550 through speakers, but when you're at one and you just, you just feel it. 91 00:04:34,555 --> 00:04:37,580 And the people that are around, it's, it's, it, it's, it's like even the 92 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:39,020 church I go to is a go-go church. 93 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:41,780 Like the song's gotta be, I want some gospel. 94 00:04:41,780 --> 00:04:42,200 Go-go. 95 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:43,130 You gonna sing it right? 96 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:43,610 Sing it in 97 00:04:43,617 --> 00:04:44,577 Jay Ray: hear that, right? 98 00:04:44,629 --> 00:04:47,329 Sir Daniel: need that in my veins right now. 99 00:04:47,569 --> 00:04:50,359 A little praise and worship with With a, with a pocket. 100 00:04:50,389 --> 00:04:51,439 Oh, tell 101 00:04:51,455 --> 00:04:53,165 Calvin Michaels: yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's great. 102 00:04:53,165 --> 00:04:53,705 It's awesome. 103 00:04:53,885 --> 00:04:54,305 So, 104 00:04:54,837 --> 00:04:55,377 Jay Ray: Wow. 105 00:04:55,377 --> 00:05:01,197 So to that point, so Calvin, you are a musician. 106 00:05:01,587 --> 00:05:02,727 You do so many things. 107 00:05:03,087 --> 00:05:07,917 True definition, multihyphenate, you're dancing, you're singing, podcasting, 108 00:05:08,607 --> 00:05:11,127 commentary, all of those things, right? 109 00:05:11,847 --> 00:05:16,647 One, um, how did this start for you? 110 00:05:16,647 --> 00:05:20,757 Like what was your entry point into kind of your artistic journey? 111 00:05:20,757 --> 00:05:22,047 I'm really curious about that. 112 00:05:22,677 --> 00:05:27,867 Um, and when you think about your artistry and what you do, like what 113 00:05:27,867 --> 00:05:29,607 do you wanna leave on the world like? 114 00:05:29,607 --> 00:05:32,212 So how did you enter and what do you want people to get from it? 115 00:05:32,427 --> 00:05:32,487 Yeah, 116 00:05:32,990 --> 00:05:36,140 Calvin Michaels: Yeah, so like I was saying, because my parents were military, 117 00:05:36,140 --> 00:05:40,580 we moved a few times and there was a portion when I turned eight when we 118 00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:43,580 moved to Za Italy, which was cool. 119 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:46,055 However, I. This is the nineties. 120 00:05:46,055 --> 00:05:48,395 This is like 96, 97. 121 00:05:48,635 --> 00:05:49,535 So, um. 122 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:50,660 With that. 123 00:05:50,660 --> 00:05:53,390 At the time there was no cable on the military base. 124 00:05:53,390 --> 00:05:57,800 You had one channel called a FN to watch and a FN was American Forces Networks. 125 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,980 And that was kind of like, they just took the best of what was on 126 00:06:00,980 --> 00:06:03,140 all the major networks and that was your, your entertainment. 127 00:06:03,140 --> 00:06:07,490 So we didn't really watch TV because um, it just wasn't a whole lot to choose from. 128 00:06:07,490 --> 00:06:10,790 So you were outside, you found creative things to do. 129 00:06:11,030 --> 00:06:13,670 So as far as how, I guess I got in, it probably would've 130 00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:14,090 been through dance first. 131 00:06:14,090 --> 00:06:16,730 This lady had just come from America. 132 00:06:17,345 --> 00:06:20,615 She had Janet's velvet Rope, DVD that she, or not even DVD 133 00:06:20,615 --> 00:06:21,785 I'm, I'm jumping the gun here. 134 00:06:21,905 --> 00:06:24,935 VHS that she recorded off the TV when it aired. 135 00:06:25,265 --> 00:06:30,335 Um, and I saw, and mind you, I hadn't really seen at this point, it's like 98. 136 00:06:30,335 --> 00:06:32,435 I haven't really seen music for two years. 137 00:06:32,435 --> 00:06:35,795 I, I've heard it, you know, some of the big, big songs in the US with 138 00:06:35,795 --> 00:06:37,085 Crossover and find Its Way to Europe. 139 00:06:37,085 --> 00:06:38,915 But a lot of what was happening in America. 140 00:06:39,275 --> 00:06:41,855 I was out of the loop one, I didn't know who was doing what. 141 00:06:41,855 --> 00:06:46,115 My brain was calibrated in 96 so that I saw that concert. 142 00:06:46,115 --> 00:06:48,665 And other than I think Whitney's uh, welcome Home 143 00:06:48,877 --> 00:06:49,297 Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. 144 00:06:49,475 --> 00:06:51,245 Calvin Michaels: Concert from like 91, that was the only 145 00:06:51,245 --> 00:06:52,445 concert I remember ever seeing. 146 00:06:52,445 --> 00:06:53,495 So when I saw that, I. 147 00:06:54,185 --> 00:06:54,695 Hooked. 148 00:06:54,965 --> 00:06:56,645 Let me emulate everything I see. 149 00:06:56,645 --> 00:07:00,605 And then somebody else ended up having Michael Jackson's, um, history one, 150 00:07:00,605 --> 00:07:03,665 one of them shows they, so I used to watch that in VE Rope just all 151 00:07:03,665 --> 00:07:07,025 the time and kind of just started teaching myself to kind of dance. 152 00:07:07,025 --> 00:07:10,505 And then when we moved back to America, we moved to another small 153 00:07:10,505 --> 00:07:11,630 town called Spanaway, Washington. 154 00:07:12,235 --> 00:07:13,135 Not a whole lot to do. 155 00:07:13,135 --> 00:07:14,725 You have nothing to do, but be creative. 156 00:07:14,935 --> 00:07:17,935 So, um, it, I mean, it's kind of, I feel like everything kind 157 00:07:17,935 --> 00:07:18,805 of happened at the same time. 158 00:07:18,805 --> 00:07:20,545 I was also, you know, a kid that grew up in the church, 159 00:07:20,545 --> 00:07:21,475 so you had to be in the choir. 160 00:07:21,475 --> 00:07:24,475 And we went to a storefront church, so everybody participates. 161 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,555 You go, you going to, I was Usher choir and eventually choir director. 162 00:07:28,555 --> 00:07:31,615 And if they do the Easter play and the Christmas program, 163 00:07:31,615 --> 00:07:32,485 you gotta be in that too. 164 00:07:32,755 --> 00:07:32,995 Right? 165 00:07:32,995 --> 00:07:34,255 So now you, you're doing theater. 166 00:07:34,255 --> 00:07:37,705 And then I kind of jumped in the theater in, in middle and high school. 167 00:07:38,105 --> 00:07:41,915 Um, I was on like the actual dance teams in high school, but as far as the YouTube 168 00:07:41,915 --> 00:07:46,265 channel, as far as me getting a presence, um, I used to teach dance on the side. 169 00:07:46,355 --> 00:07:49,955 Um, and so by the time I got to Howard, I had these different contracts with 170 00:07:49,955 --> 00:07:53,015 a bunch of different teams, and then I got into Howard and I needed to move 171 00:07:53,015 --> 00:07:56,165 to dc but I wasn't done with the teams and I'd already signed contracts. 172 00:07:56,495 --> 00:07:58,325 So what ended up happening is. 173 00:07:58,730 --> 00:08:01,820 We came to like an A medium 'cause I could just couldn't keep 174 00:08:01,820 --> 00:08:03,500 flying each weekend to teach. 175 00:08:03,830 --> 00:08:08,090 Um, I would do the lessons on YouTube with an unlisted link and just send 176 00:08:08,090 --> 00:08:12,170 my lessons in the choreography and, you know, do these different teams 177 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,380 and then, you know, I'd fly special occasion when it's competition time. 178 00:08:15,590 --> 00:08:17,480 And so that's how the YouTube channel initially started. 179 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,960 So people sometimes will see my challenge, like, oh, he started in oh five, he old. 180 00:08:21,410 --> 00:08:23,510 I was like, no, I didn't start like the YouTubeing for like 181 00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:25,100 another handful of years. 182 00:08:25,100 --> 00:08:26,450 So it started with that. 183 00:08:27,365 --> 00:08:28,385 After college. 184 00:08:28,445 --> 00:08:33,545 Um, I graduated at the peak of the recession, so there were no jobs. 185 00:08:33,545 --> 00:08:37,205 I went right back home, bored to death, and somehow I just randomly was like, 186 00:08:37,715 --> 00:08:38,825 I think I'm gonna do a comedy show. 187 00:08:39,125 --> 00:08:42,155 And so I randomly went and did a comedy show and it went really well. 188 00:08:42,155 --> 00:08:46,265 And then I did like another and another, and I was like, actually, okay. 189 00:08:46,295 --> 00:08:49,355 So then I started using the YouTube channel to promote my comedy shows. 190 00:08:49,355 --> 00:08:50,795 I would, you know, showcase that. 191 00:08:51,845 --> 00:08:54,875 Um, that's all like 20 10, 20 11. 192 00:08:54,875 --> 00:08:59,045 Fast forward, I. There's this lady named Bethany Storrow, um, who lived 193 00:08:59,045 --> 00:09:01,325 in Vancouver, Washington, which is a town where there's probably 194 00:09:01,325 --> 00:09:02,525 about three of us over there. 195 00:09:02,915 --> 00:09:07,355 And long story short, she claimed that she had been attacked by this black woman who 196 00:09:07,355 --> 00:09:10,475 threw acid on her face, and she was on the news, whole face, green skin burned off. 197 00:09:10,475 --> 00:09:12,635 Everything turned out she made it all up. 198 00:09:12,995 --> 00:09:15,755 Um, and it was because she was trying to get the attention of her 199 00:09:15,755 --> 00:09:18,215 ex-boyfriend, and so she needed a tragedy. 200 00:09:18,215 --> 00:09:19,625 I'm like, well, why you gotta put us in it? 201 00:09:19,662 --> 00:09:20,012 Jay Ray: Right? 202 00:09:20,012 --> 00:09:21,372 Like how we get in it. 203 00:09:21,635 --> 00:09:21,905 Calvin Michaels: Yeah. 204 00:09:21,905 --> 00:09:26,315 So that kind of pulled me into, now I got something I want to say, and 205 00:09:26,315 --> 00:09:29,225 that's when I started actually making the YouTube videos and talking. 206 00:09:29,225 --> 00:09:30,605 So I did that for some years. 207 00:09:30,995 --> 00:09:33,575 Um, then I started just jumping into new projects. 208 00:09:33,575 --> 00:09:36,695 Um, I did a web series called Generation Black, maybe 10 years ago. 209 00:09:36,695 --> 00:09:37,385 We did that. 210 00:09:37,775 --> 00:09:41,225 Um, how we got into the music. 211 00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:43,910 Um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 212 00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:46,910 I, um, had already been meaning to build a recording. 213 00:09:46,910 --> 00:09:48,440 Pseudo, I've always done music anyway. 214 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,450 I've always had like a keyboard or something, but I just wanted 215 00:09:50,450 --> 00:09:51,500 to do it more officially. 216 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,910 And then, um, I always remember, speaking of Janet, I had tickets to the Unbreakable 217 00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:58,760 Tour and then that's the one that got postponed 'cause she was pregnant. 218 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,550 And so the money I had from the. 219 00:10:02,525 --> 00:10:05,285 Refund from that tour, plus my tax refund. 220 00:10:05,285 --> 00:10:07,115 I was like, I have enough to build a studio. 221 00:10:07,385 --> 00:10:10,445 And so I just went to Guitar Center, was like, Hey, I wanna build a studio. 222 00:10:10,775 --> 00:10:11,555 What do I need? 223 00:10:11,795 --> 00:10:13,415 And then we kind of played around. 224 00:10:13,415 --> 00:10:15,965 And before you know it, I had an album and then another album. 225 00:10:15,965 --> 00:10:19,475 And in between the two albums came to comedically Hard Headed podcast. 226 00:10:19,775 --> 00:10:23,765 Um, because the YouTube channel was very political and people are like, 227 00:10:23,765 --> 00:10:25,355 you're funny, but you, you scare us. 228 00:10:25,385 --> 00:10:26,555 And I'm like, I'm scaring y'all. 229 00:10:26,555 --> 00:10:26,645 What? 230 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,550 So that was the podcast. 231 00:10:28,550 --> 00:10:28,970 I was like, okay. 232 00:10:28,970 --> 00:10:31,700 So then we launched like, or I'm saying we like there's somebody else here. 233 00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:36,110 But I launched the Comedically Hardheaded podcast, which was 234 00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:37,760 like a storytelling podcast. 235 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,200 So that's all humor. 236 00:10:39,290 --> 00:10:41,240 We ain't cussing nobody out, it's just all good laugh. 237 00:10:41,690 --> 00:10:43,700 Um, so I'm trying to wrap this up 'cause I'll talk in circles. 238 00:10:43,970 --> 00:10:47,690 Um, and then from there it's really kind of just built and, and branded. 239 00:10:47,690 --> 00:10:50,540 We ended up doing a short film 'cause somebody found one of the episodes 240 00:10:50,540 --> 00:10:51,380 and thought it was hilarious. 241 00:10:51,380 --> 00:10:56,090 We just did the film festival circuit last year with one of the episodes from that. 242 00:10:56,370 --> 00:10:57,240 And so that's been that. 243 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,030 But getting to the question about, um, I guess impact of 244 00:11:00,030 --> 00:11:01,020 what legacy I would like to make. 245 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,840 I just wanna live in my purpose, right? 246 00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:09,180 And I think our purpose, we have that North Star, but there are 247 00:11:09,180 --> 00:11:10,140 different ways to get there. 248 00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:13,110 So at this point, I'm taking 15 different routes just to get to that star. 249 00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:16,470 So some days it's music, some days it's comedy, some days it's the podcast. 250 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,190 Other days it's a deep dive and I want to talk about, I don't 251 00:11:20,190 --> 00:11:21,330 know, Motown records or something. 252 00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:23,670 So that's kinda, um, where it's all at. 253 00:11:23,670 --> 00:11:25,710 So I do a little bit of everything, but it's. 254 00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:29,390 You try to find ways to balance it out so you're not, you know, overworked 255 00:11:29,390 --> 00:11:31,190 and, and, and burnt out tired. 256 00:11:31,677 --> 00:11:32,487 Jay Ray: Yeah. 257 00:11:32,877 --> 00:11:33,537 Wow. 258 00:11:34,249 --> 00:11:39,319 Sir Daniel: So Calvin, that's a, that's a lot of living packed into your lifetime. 259 00:11:39,739 --> 00:11:40,159 And 260 00:11:40,490 --> 00:11:41,060 Calvin Michaels: No, I'm just kidding. 261 00:11:42,379 --> 00:11:45,049 Sir Daniel: no, we're, we're older than you, trust me. 262 00:11:45,885 --> 00:11:46,235 Calvin Michaels: right. 263 00:11:47,329 --> 00:11:51,649 Sir Daniel: And that's why, but that's why I find this so fascinating to talk to you 264 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:59,209 as somebody who is well traveled and who has lived in various parts of the world. 265 00:11:59,719 --> 00:12:02,869 When you come back home and you. 266 00:12:03,599 --> 00:12:05,159 You are an artist yourself. 267 00:12:05,729 --> 00:12:07,529 You sing, you dance. 268 00:12:08,069 --> 00:12:15,749 Um, tell jokes, all the whole nine when you encounter the factory 269 00:12:16,199 --> 00:12:18,719 that is, and it's, it's a factory. 270 00:12:19,229 --> 00:12:22,619 When you encounter the factory that we here in America know as K-Pop. 271 00:12:22,737 --> 00:12:23,027 Jay Ray: Kpop 272 00:12:24,349 --> 00:12:27,529 Sir Daniel: Initially, what is your response? 273 00:12:27,529 --> 00:12:32,029 Initially you're like, 'cause we, okay, so we're not strangers to the boy band 274 00:12:32,419 --> 00:12:35,089 formula here in the States, especially. 275 00:12:35,202 --> 00:12:36,107 Jay Ray: I loved menudo. 276 00:12:36,634 --> 00:12:36,904 Sir Daniel: You know? 277 00:12:37,474 --> 00:12:37,864 Right. 278 00:12:37,984 --> 00:12:42,154 Especially, but then when we came to the late nineties, you know, we had the 279 00:12:42,154 --> 00:12:47,254 98 degrees, the ncs, the Backstreet, all of those boy groups and the girl 280 00:12:47,254 --> 00:12:51,544 groups, um, being manufactured like by one or two people in the industry. 281 00:12:51,607 --> 00:12:52,027 Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. 282 00:12:52,354 --> 00:12:56,644 Sir Daniel: So when you encounter it as somebody looking from your 283 00:12:56,644 --> 00:13:00,244 lens, as somebody who's lived here in the States but also lived abroad, 284 00:13:00,934 --> 00:13:03,424 what is your initial reaction to. 285 00:13:03,452 --> 00:13:03,992 Jay Ray: to the, 286 00:13:04,879 --> 00:13:11,059 Sir Daniel: I guess to the whole American bandstand of it all, like 287 00:13:11,209 --> 00:13:15,859 of of K-Pop and how everything is manufactured, like what was your initial 288 00:13:15,859 --> 00:13:17,324 reaction when you started seeing them? 289 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:22,700 Calvin Michaels: So the first time I remember seeing any K-pop, anything 290 00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:24,170 would've been the early two thousands. 291 00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:28,550 So living back in Washington state, there's a really large southeast, 292 00:13:28,580 --> 00:13:32,035 um, Asian population and Pacific Islander population really huge. 293 00:13:32,335 --> 00:13:35,750 And so there were additional channels that were tailored to those demographics. 294 00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:36,710 And so I remember one time. 295 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:39,920 Like my best friend at the time we used, we were music dorks. 296 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,220 We would just sit on the phone and talk music all day to the 297 00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:44,960 point where other people would be like, yeah, y'all are weird. 298 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,160 Why are y'all talking about somebody? 299 00:13:46,220 --> 00:13:49,760 You, you, you naming all the band members from some random tour None of us heard of. 300 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,220 But anyway, so we would, sometimes, 301 00:13:52,302 --> 00:13:52,992 Jay Ray: It does. 302 00:13:52,992 --> 00:13:53,232 It's how 303 00:13:53,330 --> 00:13:56,060 Calvin Michaels: we would sometimes just be on the phone and like, 304 00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:57,680 you, you know, I'm sure y'all did this too back in the day. 305 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,460 Like you and your friend would watch the same show on tv and so we were like 306 00:14:01,460 --> 00:14:06,200 flipping channels one day and it, it ended up on one of these like local access. 307 00:14:06,545 --> 00:14:09,485 Asian channels and they had a segment where they played music videos. 308 00:14:09,485 --> 00:14:11,345 This is about oh 3 0 4. 309 00:14:11,735 --> 00:14:15,995 And so I remember we were watching, and I remember the first video I saw, it was by 310 00:14:15,995 --> 00:14:18,755 this artist named Lexi, I think it's LEXY. 311 00:14:18,755 --> 00:14:20,075 And she had a song called Girls. 312 00:14:20,375 --> 00:14:25,250 And when I looked at her, I was like, I. This looks so much like 313 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:26,870 Janet's all night, don't stop video. 314 00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:29,570 Like similar style, similar lighting. 315 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,220 And I was like, okay. 316 00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:31,610 Interesting. 317 00:14:31,610 --> 00:14:35,000 And then like the next video that played was this, this lady named like Lehi Roy. 318 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,380 And she had this song called One 10 Minute and she has the same jersey 319 00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:44,030 dress that Maya has on in the um, best of Me Remix video with Jay-Z. 320 00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:46,070 I was like, what's going on here? 321 00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:48,470 We, and and we, we were intrigued though. 322 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:48,950 I'm not gonna lie. 323 00:14:48,950 --> 00:14:50,330 Like, it was interesting 'cause it's like. 324 00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:53,630 We're only teenagers, but you could still tell like, okay, this is 325 00:14:53,630 --> 00:14:56,090 really like a, an emulation here. 326 00:14:56,270 --> 00:15:00,230 And so I don't remember the name of the show, but it came on once 327 00:15:00,230 --> 00:15:03,200 a week and we used to just sit and watch to see all these videos 328 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:04,670 and every video that came out. 329 00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:08,000 It was interesting because it was almost like the imaging they had was 330 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,720 maybe a few years behind what we were doing at the moment, production wise. 331 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,760 I take that back, the imaging was matching up, but the 332 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,800 production was a few years behind. 333 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,220 It sounded like, you know, maybe 2000, not 2004, 2005 ish. 334 00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:22,790 And um, so we were just like, okay. 335 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:29,090 Um, now I will say, um, in comparison to the now, I think what they were 336 00:15:29,090 --> 00:15:32,960 doing then was a bit more, um. 337 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,850 Well-rounded than now. 338 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,870 I think right now you really do see the evidence of that kind of factory, 339 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:43,130 that kind of just throw it all out there because I, I felt like those 340 00:15:43,130 --> 00:15:45,920 artists that were out in those earlier years that, I think there's one like 341 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,410 the, there was I think a guy named bi. 342 00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:50,150 There was, um. 343 00:15:50,510 --> 00:15:53,840 I'm skipping so many people, uh, I'm forgetting these names, but they all 344 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,340 had their own kind of personalities. 345 00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:59,060 What I'm noticing about this current era is I can't tell who's who, and that's 346 00:15:59,060 --> 00:16:03,170 not to sound like ignorant, but as far as just the distinction between their 347 00:16:03,170 --> 00:16:07,490 sound, even the imaging and their music videos, the, the music production, the 348 00:16:07,490 --> 00:16:12,500 choreography, it's like everybody has exactly the same package presentation. 349 00:16:12,830 --> 00:16:15,320 I mean, it, it's cool visually, I guess. 350 00:16:15,650 --> 00:16:17,270 Um, but it's not. 351 00:16:18,065 --> 00:16:21,995 To me, it just feels too calculated and too orchestrated 352 00:16:21,995 --> 00:16:24,245 and too mechanical I think. 353 00:16:24,635 --> 00:16:27,785 And, and that's, maybe that's just 'cause I'm a little older 354 00:16:27,785 --> 00:16:29,165 than the target audience. 355 00:16:29,255 --> 00:16:32,795 And I do remember when K-POP was not a thing in the United States. 356 00:16:33,065 --> 00:16:36,845 Um, to the extent that it is now, something has just always felt 357 00:16:36,845 --> 00:16:39,005 off and I just always think to. 358 00:16:39,755 --> 00:16:46,055 I wanna say this is the 2018 or 2019 Billboard Music Awards and New Edition 359 00:16:46,055 --> 00:16:50,165 and new Kids on the Block had a joint performance, and I remember them 360 00:16:50,165 --> 00:16:53,195 panning to BTS, you know, the big boy band that was really, really big. 361 00:16:53,435 --> 00:16:55,745 And you know, you've seen their videos, they just da da da. 362 00:16:55,985 --> 00:16:59,405 But what, what's so interesting is when they were doing Bobby's, um, every 363 00:16:59,405 --> 00:17:03,725 little step I take in the segment, I noticed BTS was dancing, but they 364 00:17:03,785 --> 00:17:05,555 weren't on the rhythm to the song. 365 00:17:05,555 --> 00:17:06,425 And I was like, wait a minute. 366 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,170 Now y'all can do all this choreography and spit on your head, but y'all 367 00:17:10,170 --> 00:17:13,560 can't catch the two and the four, I was so confused and then I realized, 368 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,840 well that's because they're, this is not what they're rooted in. 369 00:17:16,110 --> 00:17:19,140 This is something, there's a conversation of skilled verse trained. 370 00:17:19,410 --> 00:17:19,890 Right? 371 00:17:19,950 --> 00:17:21,300 And so I was like. 372 00:17:22,295 --> 00:17:23,345 This makes sense. 373 00:17:23,405 --> 00:17:26,945 This is why like, yeah, they can emulate, but you can tell that a lot of times it's 374 00:17:26,945 --> 00:17:29,495 not really what they're rooted in now. 375 00:17:29,495 --> 00:17:30,845 It's made a lot of money. 376 00:17:31,175 --> 00:17:33,965 It's, I mean, these are acts that are selling out stadiums in the 377 00:17:33,965 --> 00:17:38,105 US at this point now, but, um, I think there's a specific demographic 378 00:17:38,105 --> 00:17:41,285 that appreciates it and, you know, that they're able to market to. 379 00:17:41,285 --> 00:17:45,425 But I think there's an entire another segment that is 380 00:17:45,425 --> 00:17:46,415 just never gonna be into it. 381 00:17:46,745 --> 00:17:50,165 And that's kind of where I think a lot of, I'll throw myself in there to be honest. 382 00:17:50,495 --> 00:17:51,035 Um. 383 00:17:51,815 --> 00:17:52,565 It's cool. 384 00:17:52,595 --> 00:17:57,005 It's just, it's not my bread and butter to, to run behind. 385 00:17:57,335 --> 00:18:01,025 Uh, and I just, I, I don't think they have that full identity of 386 00:18:01,025 --> 00:18:03,275 what they want to be artistically. 387 00:18:03,515 --> 00:18:06,305 It's, it's more so the marketing and the branding they have that 388 00:18:06,305 --> 00:18:10,445 mastered, but the authenticity and the artistry, I don't think is there, 389 00:18:10,445 --> 00:18:13,985 which is why you see so many these acts just blow up and then disappear. 390 00:18:14,325 --> 00:18:16,695 and what makes it even crazier now that I think back at it. 391 00:18:16,725 --> 00:18:19,995 One of the things I remember when we saw those early versions, and mind 392 00:18:19,995 --> 00:18:22,395 you, K-pop was already out by the time I discovered it, it had been 393 00:18:22,425 --> 00:18:26,505 been a thing since about the mid nineties, and I'm 10 years late, right? 394 00:18:26,715 --> 00:18:30,405 I, I specifically remember that Lehigh Roy, just one 10 minute 395 00:18:30,405 --> 00:18:32,175 video, y'all please go watch that when you get a chance. 396 00:18:32,175 --> 00:18:33,705 But there's a scene where. 397 00:18:34,395 --> 00:18:38,655 They're riding with the top down and I guess, what was the Korean hood? 398 00:18:38,715 --> 00:18:42,375 And then they pan to all the Korean dudes playing basketball. 399 00:18:42,375 --> 00:18:43,245 And we were like, what? 400 00:18:43,402 --> 00:18:43,622 Jay Ray: now. 401 00:18:43,622 --> 00:18:44,422 Wait a minute now. 402 00:18:44,882 --> 00:18:45,822 Now wait a minute. 403 00:18:46,365 --> 00:18:48,795 Calvin Michaels: and the, this one we were still wearing the va, it was 404 00:18:48,795 --> 00:18:52,665 like, it was like 20 Allen Iversons in the video, but they were just Korean. 405 00:18:52,665 --> 00:18:53,355 I said, this is. 406 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,340 Uh, you just saw, you could tell that, okay, they're trying 407 00:18:56,340 --> 00:18:58,560 to piece a certain image here. 408 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,510 'cause, 'cause what part of Korea is this? 409 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,670 Because, I mean, you would've, the, the way that it was 410 00:19:02,670 --> 00:19:03,690 presented was like, oh, okay. 411 00:19:03,690 --> 00:19:04,410 So y'all in Brooklyn. 412 00:19:04,410 --> 00:19:04,800 Really? 413 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:05,370 Okay. 414 00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:05,940 All right. 415 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:06,540 Okay. 416 00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:12,030 So it, it, it's, um, and, and I, I, I get it because again, black 417 00:19:12,030 --> 00:19:15,390 music influences everybody and our music is really huge there. 418 00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:16,470 You know, some of our artists. 419 00:19:17,025 --> 00:19:20,655 Are huge in places like Japan and Korea and Singapore. 420 00:19:20,655 --> 00:19:24,885 So it's, it's no secret that the influence is there, but I, it goes back to what 421 00:19:24,885 --> 00:19:26,055 I was saying about the idea of Rooted. 422 00:19:26,055 --> 00:19:30,015 So even if you're talking Korean music or, or K-pop, you know, their bread 423 00:19:30,015 --> 00:19:33,975 and butter before K-pop blew up was Korean folk, which is so left field 424 00:19:33,975 --> 00:19:35,955 from what is currently out there. 425 00:19:35,955 --> 00:19:37,875 So again, it's almost like. 426 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,580 Foundation was never there, but they built their foundation off of 427 00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:44,430 what was happening in the US in the eighties and the nineties, and so 428 00:19:44,430 --> 00:19:46,200 that's where their foundation stops. 429 00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:49,890 But if you're talking about like an r and b artist in the United States, 430 00:19:50,010 --> 00:19:55,920 even an RB artist, they may be born in 2000 even, you know, their, their, um, 431 00:19:55,950 --> 00:19:58,920 foundation doesn't stop in the eighties because you know what, even though, you 432 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,770 know, on Sundays if they had to go to grandma's house, grandma was playing 433 00:20:02,250 --> 00:20:04,140 seventies in the sixties or wherever. 434 00:20:04,140 --> 00:20:05,640 And so there's still that element of. 435 00:20:06,465 --> 00:20:10,455 You know, certain elements of sound being rooted or even if they were a 436 00:20:10,455 --> 00:20:14,805 family that went to church, you know, those same music theory lessons that 437 00:20:14,805 --> 00:20:17,865 we indirectly get if you grew up in a church have never really changed. 438 00:20:17,865 --> 00:20:20,295 And the only difference is now they got a guitar and it's a little bit more 439 00:20:20,295 --> 00:20:24,015 praise and worship ish versus, um, maybe what we grew up on with the choirs. 440 00:20:24,255 --> 00:20:27,440 But, um, there's still that essence of, of, of. 441 00:20:28,065 --> 00:20:29,865 That, that foundation that's still there. 442 00:20:29,865 --> 00:20:32,325 And I don't think the K-pop acts really have that. 443 00:20:32,325 --> 00:20:33,585 And all they can do is emulate. 444 00:20:33,795 --> 00:20:37,335 And I think this is why you're seeing so many cycle in and cycle out because 445 00:20:37,335 --> 00:20:41,205 just 10 years ago, the the two one group that was the two NE and the 446 00:20:41,205 --> 00:20:44,565 number one, or maybe they're called 21 with, with a massive, massive 447 00:20:44,565 --> 00:20:46,575 act like they, they were before 448 00:20:46,627 --> 00:20:47,677 Jay Ray: even heard. 449 00:20:47,677 --> 00:20:48,427 That's crazy. 450 00:20:48,427 --> 00:20:49,117 'cause I never even 451 00:20:49,260 --> 00:20:53,130 Calvin Michaels: They were huge and yeah, they were ma and I and some of it was, 452 00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:56,310 I used to work with kids, so they're a bit more on the internet than I am, 453 00:20:56,310 --> 00:21:00,060 so they were finding everything, but I remember they were massive at a point. 454 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:03,180 And then, um, it's like they just fell off the face of the earth. 455 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,830 Um, I'm like, where'd they go? 456 00:21:04,890 --> 00:21:08,220 And now there's kinda like black pink, which is one that's kind of coddling here. 457 00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:09,120 They've done Coachella. 458 00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:12,720 Um, and, and there's some acts, and I'm really not trying 459 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:13,860 to whack any of these acts. 460 00:21:13,890 --> 00:21:15,180 Uh, it is just, um. 461 00:21:15,975 --> 00:21:16,155 It. 462 00:21:16,155 --> 00:21:18,465 It's, I just, I think it's a generational thing. 463 00:21:18,465 --> 00:21:22,245 I think if you're of a certain age, you're just never gonna be 100% into it. 464 00:21:22,245 --> 00:21:25,725 There will be the anomalies, but overall, I just think if you were rooted in an 465 00:21:25,725 --> 00:21:30,195 era where, you know, Michael, prince, Whitney, Janet, Mariah, were on your tv, 466 00:21:30,405 --> 00:21:35,445 I'll even throw Madonna in there, or your tv, it's really hard to be impressed by. 467 00:21:36,525 --> 00:21:37,245 Yeah. 468 00:21:37,875 --> 00:21:39,045 You know, that's just where I'm at. 469 00:21:40,049 --> 00:21:47,279 Sir Daniel: So that, so that kind of, it kind of, um, quells 470 00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:49,979 the kind of the fire that I had. 471 00:21:50,002 --> 00:21:50,482 Jay Ray: had 472 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,389 Sir Daniel: Initially when we had the initial conversation, it kind of, 473 00:21:54,749 --> 00:21:56,609 this, kind of dulls that a little bit. 474 00:21:56,609 --> 00:21:57,839 It's like, oh, okay. 475 00:21:57,989 --> 00:22:03,839 They're not, they're really all, uh, it's really about consumption and 476 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:08,489 then just regurgitating what you've consumed because like you said, I, 477 00:22:08,699 --> 00:22:14,279 there's been years I've seen this guy who does nothing but new Jack swing 478 00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:17,699 choreography and he dances to, I think. 479 00:22:17,994 --> 00:22:20,664 Any new Jack swing song that you could ever think of that 480 00:22:20,664 --> 00:22:23,964 was made between 87 and 95. 481 00:22:24,474 --> 00:22:29,874 He's danced to it and they, they specifically love that particular era. 482 00:22:29,874 --> 00:22:35,364 There's, they have this thing for new jack swing, but then I also think 483 00:22:35,424 --> 00:22:41,931 about how we specifically black people are viewed in different cultures 484 00:22:42,864 --> 00:22:45,859 and as your world traveler, um. 485 00:22:47,219 --> 00:22:50,999 Is it, is, is this, is this modern black face? 486 00:22:51,899 --> 00:22:57,029 it, is there, is there like a, a teaspoon of racism in there? 487 00:22:57,299 --> 00:23:01,229 Because we've all seen the pictures of, you know, the, the kids and it's, it's, 488 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:03,239 it's definitely tied to youth culture. 489 00:23:03,569 --> 00:23:08,669 The kids that are getting, you know, their hair twisted into Bantu knots and, and 490 00:23:08,669 --> 00:23:11,189 trying to create waves out of their hair. 491 00:23:11,189 --> 00:23:13,679 And as you said, the fashions are very. 492 00:23:14,074 --> 00:23:18,184 Early two thousands with the, you know, the, the, the throwbacks and the, the 493 00:23:18,184 --> 00:23:21,574 throwback skirts and all that other stuff, and they're getting their hair, corn, 494 00:23:21,574 --> 00:23:23,014 rowed and all these kinds of things. 495 00:23:23,014 --> 00:23:30,244 So, but is there an actual, and you can't speak for them, but as somebody 496 00:23:30,244 --> 00:23:34,834 who's traveled and has experienced different cultures as a black person 497 00:23:34,894 --> 00:23:38,494 presenting in this world, is it rooted in. 498 00:23:38,522 --> 00:23:38,742 Jay Ray: in 499 00:23:40,634 --> 00:23:42,644 Sir Daniel: And is it rooted in appropriation? 500 00:23:42,644 --> 00:23:46,394 Is it making fun of, is it adoration? 501 00:23:46,509 --> 00:23:46,729 How? 502 00:23:46,734 --> 00:23:47,954 How do you feel about it? 503 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,920 Calvin Michaels: I always say, just imagine you travel there and you walk 504 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,840 into a room and you see 15 people with the outfits and the hair and the jewelry 505 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,190 staring at you like you're crazy. 506 00:23:59,670 --> 00:24:02,130 Um, how do you feel in that moment? 507 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,540 Do you feel like I. You know, I, I think it's a combination 508 00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:07,800 of all of it, to be honest. 509 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,520 I, I really do believe that that community adores what we do. 510 00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:16,410 I mean, 'cause honestly, I think RB hip hop, new Jack swing, for a lot of them 511 00:24:16,410 --> 00:24:19,560 that was their introduction to what you would call like Western style music 512 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,970 as opposed to like the Korean folk. 513 00:24:20,970 --> 00:24:25,230 So it's, you know, that's their introduction to certain things. 514 00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:28,830 And I think culturally we've always been emulated, but I think 515 00:24:28,830 --> 00:24:30,750 where there's a gray area is. 516 00:24:31,665 --> 00:24:36,135 There is still that element of racism that is there and some of these fan bases are. 517 00:24:36,750 --> 00:24:37,290 Crazy. 518 00:24:37,290 --> 00:24:40,050 I, I just see it on social media because a lot of them don't want to 519 00:24:40,050 --> 00:24:44,760 acknowledge that the entire origin and influence of new, uh, uh, of K-pop comes 520 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,140 from what black artists were doing. 521 00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:49,050 That's the main reason why in my new Jack swing deep dive, I opened with 522 00:24:49,050 --> 00:24:51,360 that, which I got cussed out for. 523 00:24:51,390 --> 00:24:53,490 'cause the Teddy Riley disciples didn't know where I was going 524 00:24:53,490 --> 00:24:54,390 with, and I'm like, just keep 525 00:24:54,562 --> 00:24:55,612 Jay Ray: Just keep why 526 00:24:55,710 --> 00:24:56,250 Calvin Michaels: They like, what? 527 00:24:56,250 --> 00:24:58,110 You starting in Korea for Teddy? 528 00:24:58,260 --> 00:24:59,940 I was like, just, just, just it. 529 00:25:00,105 --> 00:25:03,255 I summed it up in four minutes, just gimme four minutes to get it out. 530 00:25:03,255 --> 00:25:05,025 Like, oh man, they were whacking me. 531 00:25:05,025 --> 00:25:05,925 I'm like, y'all, 532 00:25:05,932 --> 00:25:07,342 Jay Ray: are like, just keep going. 533 00:25:07,372 --> 00:25:08,872 Like, we were impressed. 534 00:25:08,872 --> 00:25:09,622 That's how we got here. 535 00:25:09,622 --> 00:25:10,373 We're like, no, no, no. 536 00:25:10,378 --> 00:25:11,692 Yes, Calvin Michaels. 537 00:25:11,925 --> 00:25:12,615 Calvin Michaels: were killing me. 538 00:25:12,615 --> 00:25:13,455 Let me turn this light on. 539 00:25:13,455 --> 00:25:13,755 Let's get 540 00:25:13,757 --> 00:25:14,047 Jay Ray: Okay. 541 00:25:15,127 --> 00:25:15,687 Rutabaga. 542 00:25:16,305 --> 00:25:16,755 Calvin Michaels: Okay. 543 00:25:16,845 --> 00:25:18,375 Yeah, the sun's trying to set on here. 544 00:25:18,585 --> 00:25:20,685 But anyway, so, um, yeah. 545 00:25:20,685 --> 00:25:26,085 And so I think, um, I see some element of like. 546 00:25:27,315 --> 00:25:29,355 To me, there's some element of racism because there, there's 547 00:25:29,355 --> 00:25:31,575 a lot of anti-blackness in that region of the world as well. 548 00:25:31,815 --> 00:25:32,325 Right. 549 00:25:32,475 --> 00:25:37,605 Um, and, and even when it comes to certain things like the N word, some 550 00:25:37,605 --> 00:25:38,535 of 'em have no problem using it. 551 00:25:38,535 --> 00:25:42,675 And, and, and some of it is, there's not a full understanding of the blacklight 552 00:25:42,675 --> 00:25:45,495 in the United States, but some do understand it and just don't care. 553 00:25:45,735 --> 00:25:47,595 Um, and so I think. 554 00:25:48,285 --> 00:25:51,345 It's a weird space because also we now have black American producers 555 00:25:51,345 --> 00:25:52,545 that are also making their sounds. 556 00:25:52,545 --> 00:25:56,295 So you have people like Sean Garrett and, and Teddy Riley who, you know, 557 00:25:56,355 --> 00:25:57,825 give some of them their hits too. 558 00:25:57,825 --> 00:25:58,245 And I get it. 559 00:25:58,245 --> 00:25:59,025 There's money to be made. 560 00:25:59,025 --> 00:26:04,815 And I think with K-Pop, for me, I see it as, as a brand and a business model 561 00:26:04,815 --> 00:26:08,715 more so than like a, a specific genre of music that's rooted in something. 562 00:26:09,015 --> 00:26:13,455 If you notice the, the rollouts, it's, it's centered all in branding. 563 00:26:13,455 --> 00:26:16,425 And how can we get the most commercial gain, um. 564 00:26:16,785 --> 00:26:19,995 And I think that stems from like what you brought up earlier when 565 00:26:19,995 --> 00:26:21,255 we talked about the boy bands. 566 00:26:21,555 --> 00:26:24,255 One of the things that was interesting about living in Italy is, you know, 567 00:26:24,675 --> 00:26:29,595 we got the Backstreet Boys in NSYNC early, um, Backstreet Boys was out, 568 00:26:29,625 --> 00:26:32,415 I don't wanna say by the time I got to Italy, they were already a 569 00:26:32,415 --> 00:26:35,295 thing overseas, um, NSYNC as well. 570 00:26:35,505 --> 00:26:39,015 And so I remember moving back to the US in 99 and now N Sync 571 00:26:39,015 --> 00:26:41,505 is promoting, like tearing up my heart and I'm like, this was. 572 00:26:42,090 --> 00:26:44,610 Two years ago, y'all just now getting this right. 573 00:26:44,730 --> 00:26:48,210 Um, because they were, some of the acts that actually were marketed specifically 574 00:26:48,210 --> 00:26:49,980 in Germany blew up in Germany. 575 00:26:49,980 --> 00:26:52,110 Germany is only a country and a half away from Italy. 576 00:26:52,110 --> 00:26:54,180 You just go through Switzerland and then we right there. 577 00:26:54,510 --> 00:27:00,210 Um, and so that model of set them up in Europe. 578 00:27:00,930 --> 00:27:04,500 Model them after Boys to Men, model them after New Edition. 579 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:05,580 Teach them how to dance. 580 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:07,500 Give them a little bit of extra swag. 581 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:09,450 You know, you're gonna get Chris from nsync, who at the 582 00:27:09,450 --> 00:27:10,080 time, remember he used to 583 00:27:10,117 --> 00:27:11,587 Jay Ray: He used to have the braids too. 584 00:27:11,617 --> 00:27:11,917 Yep. 585 00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:12,930 Calvin Michaels: Had them braids. 586 00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:16,770 Put 'em out there and you get like an AJ from Backstreet Boys who has, he doesn't 587 00:27:16,770 --> 00:27:19,800 have an ambiguous look, but you can tell he got something else in the bloodline. 588 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,580 So kind of make him look like he's a little bit more spicy than usual, 589 00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:24,870 and then put them out there and. 590 00:27:25,245 --> 00:27:28,485 Now they got some eight counts down and now we can package them and 591 00:27:28,485 --> 00:27:29,745 give them to the United States. 592 00:27:29,775 --> 00:27:33,675 Like, I think that's almost where the difference is with the boy bands 593 00:27:33,675 --> 00:27:36,405 versus like the Spice Girls who I think the Spice Girls kind of stayed 594 00:27:36,405 --> 00:27:39,015 in a, a super bubblegum pop realm. 595 00:27:39,015 --> 00:27:42,765 But I think the boy bands, there was an effort to really model them after what 596 00:27:42,765 --> 00:27:44,775 the RB groups were doing at the time. 597 00:27:44,775 --> 00:27:47,175 Like Spice Girls, I think were still, you know, they were still 598 00:27:47,175 --> 00:27:50,265 a great group, but I, I didn't see them marketed as, you know. 599 00:27:50,495 --> 00:27:53,015 Put them in a room and make them do an in Vogue and TLC doing, I think 600 00:27:53,015 --> 00:27:56,195 Spice Girls somehow were able to kind of carve their own lane, even 601 00:27:56,195 --> 00:27:57,605 though the influencers are there. 602 00:27:58,025 --> 00:28:01,835 I never saw them as carbon copies of, uh, and I'm, I'm not saying that 603 00:28:01,835 --> 00:28:06,935 about nsync, Backstreet Boys, but you, I, I never saw them as, um, they 604 00:28:06,935 --> 00:28:08,495 were still factory, a factory group. 605 00:28:08,495 --> 00:28:12,125 They were assembled clearly, but I think it, there was a different, um, 606 00:28:12,215 --> 00:28:15,695 origin behind their creation, uh, where you have Lou Pearlman who knew 607 00:28:15,695 --> 00:28:17,435 exactly what he was doing when he. 608 00:28:18,225 --> 00:28:21,255 And even the ties to, um, ah, the guy 609 00:28:21,367 --> 00:28:21,787 Jay Ray: Maurice 610 00:28:22,005 --> 00:28:25,035 Calvin Michaels: Maur Starr did the connection with him and Lou 611 00:28:25,035 --> 00:28:26,565 promo, like so there was an effort. 612 00:28:26,985 --> 00:28:27,315 Yeah. 613 00:28:27,315 --> 00:28:28,065 So, um. 614 00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:31,140 I think when you jump back to the K-pop conversation, it's the same thing. 615 00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:34,080 But the only difference is now we just also this, the language barrier. 616 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,930 'cause a lot of these artists don't speak English either they sing in 617 00:28:36,930 --> 00:28:40,350 English, they, they don't speak, or they have a very limited scope. 618 00:28:40,350 --> 00:28:42,690 Or sometimes you'll see these groups that win the award, they'll have the, 619 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,510 the member that speaks it a little bit better that will do all the talking. 620 00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:48,030 And then it's interesting 'cause then when you listen to the lyrics and 621 00:28:48,030 --> 00:28:48,990 they're talking about, I'm so bad. 622 00:28:48,990 --> 00:28:49,500 I'm so hood. 623 00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:49,920 Hood. 624 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:50,700 Like where? 625 00:28:50,977 --> 00:28:52,657 Jay Ray: who, who and how. 626 00:28:52,777 --> 00:28:53,107 Right? 627 00:28:53,647 --> 00:28:54,727 You're just singing things. 628 00:28:55,357 --> 00:29:00,092 You know what this is bringing up for me and ooh, this is, this makes me mad. 629 00:29:00,592 --> 00:29:01,252 Um, but. 630 00:29:02,272 --> 00:29:04,072 We do this every time. 631 00:29:04,132 --> 00:29:09,262 It is the, um, incessant commercialization of our culture. 632 00:29:09,622 --> 00:29:14,032 Like we saw this in the late eighties where all of a sudden all 633 00:29:14,032 --> 00:29:17,272 the black producers was producing on all these white groups, right? 634 00:29:17,332 --> 00:29:19,492 And given them bops, right? 635 00:29:19,522 --> 00:29:22,132 We got so many bops in the new Jack swing era 636 00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:23,550 Calvin Michaels: Because Jane Child. 637 00:29:23,962 --> 00:29:24,562 Jay Ray: Baby 638 00:29:24,885 --> 00:29:26,145 Calvin Michaels: Don't wanna fall in love. 639 00:29:26,722 --> 00:29:27,052 Jay Ray: day. 640 00:29:27,052 --> 00:29:28,402 We talk about that is a jam. 641 00:29:28,402 --> 00:29:31,552 Tara Kemps just wanna hold you tight all day. 642 00:29:31,732 --> 00:29:32,962 These are jams, right? 643 00:29:33,277 --> 00:29:33,497 But. 644 00:29:34,657 --> 00:29:40,357 It is just this, this, this connection to commercialization that will have 645 00:29:40,357 --> 00:29:43,417 some of us being like, you know what? 646 00:29:43,417 --> 00:29:46,747 No, they, I can absolutely have my song on this group, right? 647 00:29:46,957 --> 00:29:51,727 This group who has no connection to your history, no real interest in understanding 648 00:29:51,727 --> 00:29:53,317 what it means to be rooted in it. 649 00:29:54,217 --> 00:30:00,247 Singing over your stuff and that it's, it's, it's business 1 0 1. 650 00:30:00,247 --> 00:30:02,167 It's music industry 1 0 1. 651 00:30:02,257 --> 00:30:03,547 I get it, but it. 652 00:30:04,327 --> 00:30:12,007 It happens all the time, and I still get mad because it waters everything down. 653 00:30:12,007 --> 00:30:19,147 And what happens is then we have to do that so that then we can 654 00:30:19,147 --> 00:30:21,277 then sell it back to our folks. 655 00:30:21,427 --> 00:30:22,927 So these folks took our thing. 656 00:30:23,282 --> 00:30:26,102 Made it this, then we have to do that. 657 00:30:26,102 --> 00:30:26,402 Right? 658 00:30:26,402 --> 00:30:29,282 Put our stank back on it, give it back. 659 00:30:29,342 --> 00:30:31,082 But of course we're gonna do it differently. 660 00:30:31,112 --> 00:30:32,492 'cause we done put our stank on it. 661 00:30:32,702 --> 00:30:34,442 They're gonna be like, okay, that now. 662 00:30:34,472 --> 00:30:34,772 Okay. 663 00:30:34,772 --> 00:30:35,702 Do what they're doing. 664 00:30:35,762 --> 00:30:39,932 And then it's like this cycle and I'm just like, just, I want it to stop. 665 00:30:40,202 --> 00:30:43,292 Stop giving these people your, you know what, I ain't getting in nobody's pockets. 666 00:30:43,652 --> 00:30:45,572 If you gonna sell your stuff, do your thing. 667 00:30:45,572 --> 00:30:46,532 But it makes me mad. 668 00:30:46,622 --> 00:30:47,102 Jay Ra. 669 00:30:47,102 --> 00:30:47,642 Be mad. 670 00:30:49,095 --> 00:30:52,635 Calvin Michaels: Yeah, I, I think it's a combination of that. 671 00:30:52,635 --> 00:30:54,885 I also do think some of it is the labels as well, 672 00:30:54,967 --> 00:30:55,087 Jay Ray: Of 673 00:30:55,185 --> 00:30:57,795 Calvin Michaels: they, and, and I think for producers that are trying 674 00:30:57,795 --> 00:30:59,775 to get on, I. They want the placement. 675 00:30:59,805 --> 00:31:03,225 So, um, especially the ones that are hungry and that they, they 676 00:31:03,225 --> 00:31:04,725 just need that foot in the door. 677 00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:07,695 It's, you know, it's, it's music business. 678 00:31:07,695 --> 00:31:11,085 Unfortunately that's, that's the business part, but I, I do think that 679 00:31:11,085 --> 00:31:14,535 is one of the reasons why r and b music commercially is where it's at 680 00:31:14,535 --> 00:31:20,505 now because of 20 years of that, where especially our pop artists went a whole 681 00:31:20,505 --> 00:31:23,475 lot more r and b rooted urban influence. 682 00:31:23,475 --> 00:31:25,095 I don't like the word urban, but that's what they call us. 683 00:31:25,425 --> 00:31:26,055 Um. 684 00:31:26,610 --> 00:31:30,000 Once we got to the late nineties, 'cause I, I always tell people, they always 685 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,150 think I'm crazy, but when Britney Spears came out, um, I thought she was black 686 00:31:33,270 --> 00:31:34,860 because I didn't see the music video. 687 00:31:34,927 --> 00:31:36,037 Jay Ray: hit me baby one more time. 688 00:31:36,042 --> 00:31:36,632 Was a whole 689 00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:38,610 Calvin Michaels: it came on the radio. 690 00:31:38,610 --> 00:31:41,640 On this, the Italian station was called Disco Rio. 691 00:31:41,790 --> 00:31:43,830 And like I said, we didn't have access to music videos. 692 00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:45,060 There was no MTV or nothing. 693 00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:51,510 And so if you're thinking about white girls and pop pre 96, let's just say 694 00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:55,710 about 90 to 96, the only main pop. 695 00:31:56,415 --> 00:31:58,335 That was a woman that was really doing it was Madonna. 696 00:31:58,335 --> 00:32:01,935 And even then she was at a slowdown at that point, temporarily, and she 697 00:32:01,935 --> 00:32:03,705 gave us bedtime stories and erotica. 698 00:32:03,705 --> 00:32:05,775 So she was kind of in a different realm. 699 00:32:05,775 --> 00:32:09,915 But when you thought of white women in music, you know, you, it is kind 700 00:32:09,915 --> 00:32:12,195 of like a Leanne Rimes kind of sound. 701 00:32:12,195 --> 00:32:16,695 There wasn't really this quote, I guess whatever group Fergie was in that when 702 00:32:16,695 --> 00:32:18,195 they tried so hard and it, it never grew 703 00:32:18,224 --> 00:32:19,969 Sir Daniel: Oh, wild, wild Orchid, 704 00:32:20,025 --> 00:32:21,975 Calvin Michaels: wild, wild or, and 705 00:32:22,312 --> 00:32:22,582 Jay Ray: That's called 706 00:32:22,609 --> 00:32:23,749 Sir Daniel: all these crazy runs. 707 00:32:24,142 --> 00:32:24,532 Jay Ray: right? 708 00:32:24,705 --> 00:32:24,945 Calvin Michaels: it. 709 00:32:25,470 --> 00:32:28,410 Not to whack them, but no, these folks like, okay, y'all, y'all got a lot. 710 00:32:28,410 --> 00:32:31,620 But when it came to white girls, there was no association with like 711 00:32:32,010 --> 00:32:33,960 super funky swagged out music. 712 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,570 Not since probably Tina Marie, and she was always more r and 713 00:32:36,570 --> 00:32:37,530 b rooted and was never really 714 00:32:37,702 --> 00:32:39,082 Jay Ray: She was doing black music, period. 715 00:32:39,270 --> 00:32:41,100 Calvin Michaels: she passed white people didn't know who she was. 716 00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:41,610 So. 717 00:32:42,225 --> 00:32:46,245 Um, so when Baby One More Time came on, I was like, when is this? 718 00:32:46,515 --> 00:32:49,095 And so I remember getting Back to America and 719 00:32:49,147 --> 00:32:49,777 Jay Ray: And you saw her 720 00:32:50,205 --> 00:32:50,715 Calvin Michaels: was out. 721 00:32:50,835 --> 00:32:51,945 Yeah, sometimes was out. 722 00:32:51,945 --> 00:32:53,355 And I'm like, I think this is that one girl. 723 00:32:53,355 --> 00:32:55,575 But remember the now music compilations, 724 00:32:55,657 --> 00:32:55,687 Jay Ray: Uhhuh. 725 00:32:56,317 --> 00:32:57,037 Now that's 726 00:32:57,045 --> 00:33:01,395 Calvin Michaels: when I got to America it was now two and Baby one more 727 00:33:01,395 --> 00:33:02,745 Time was in the now Too commercial. 728 00:33:02,745 --> 00:33:04,755 And that's when I first saw her and I saw this white girl with pictures. 729 00:33:04,755 --> 00:33:06,615 I was like, what is going on here? 730 00:33:06,645 --> 00:33:07,005 Like. 731 00:33:07,395 --> 00:33:10,425 Because, and then I was in denial and I remember seeing her album cover 732 00:33:10,425 --> 00:33:11,775 and you know, she has the tan, so I 733 00:33:11,842 --> 00:33:12,382 Jay Ray: Yes. 734 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,215 Calvin Michaels: She could be like a a, a Mariah kind of, 735 00:33:16,372 --> 00:33:17,032 Jay Ray: big store. 736 00:33:17,055 --> 00:33:21,045 Calvin Michaels: I was trying so hard for her to be black. 737 00:33:22,612 --> 00:33:22,852 Jay Ray: You 738 00:33:22,875 --> 00:33:26,385 Calvin Michaels: I was like, I know she, she gotta, there's no way. 739 00:33:26,415 --> 00:33:27,645 She's what I think she is. 740 00:33:27,645 --> 00:33:28,065 Right. 741 00:33:28,275 --> 00:33:32,020 Um, and so, yeah, but I say all that to say. 742 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:34,930 You know, when even when you talk about those pop acts, look at how much 743 00:33:34,930 --> 00:33:38,110 more r and b rooted they became, um, in the later years, like Backstreet 744 00:33:38,110 --> 00:33:41,260 Boys started getting used songs like the Call with the Neptunes remix. 745 00:33:41,260 --> 00:33:46,570 Christina went dirty and she had the song with Lil Kim and, uh, NSY had 746 00:33:46,570 --> 00:33:50,860 gone and which was on 1 0 6 and park all day and, and, and girlfriend. 747 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,530 And then that question becomes, well, where did the R and BX go? 748 00:33:53,530 --> 00:33:55,000 Because now the labels are like, well. 749 00:33:55,875 --> 00:34:00,735 We could, you know, push Tamia, but we got Christina that can do this. 750 00:34:00,835 --> 00:34:02,485 Sir Daniel: So you were absolutely right. 751 00:34:02,935 --> 00:34:09,565 Um, I, listen, I think Calvin is like, um, Calvin is definitely 752 00:34:09,565 --> 00:34:10,850 part of the Queue Points. 753 00:34:11,608 --> 00:34:11,828 Jay Ray: Yes, 754 00:34:12,625 --> 00:34:14,155 Sir Daniel: Key points, um, family. 755 00:34:14,155 --> 00:34:16,945 There's a fa there's a huge resemblance here in what we've 756 00:34:16,945 --> 00:34:21,085 been discovering and talking about on our, our, um, show as well. 757 00:34:21,745 --> 00:34:27,685 And just, I don't know, I think the conversation then, or it's not even a 758 00:34:27,685 --> 00:34:31,930 conversation for us, but for the general public hearing in the United States, but. 759 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,870 As people who live in this country, who are, who are black men, who are music, 760 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,760 who consume music, you know, we just have these questions and I'm grateful to 761 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,990 have somebody with another perspective to come by and kind of like, well, this is 762 00:34:46,990 --> 00:34:49,360 what, and kind of teach us what happens. 763 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:54,010 So I appreciate you, Calvin, for joining us on this episode and 764 00:34:54,070 --> 00:34:58,360 kind of enlightening us as to what happens because again, in all of our 765 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,520 discussions and all of our discovery. 766 00:35:01,420 --> 00:35:04,300 Capitalism is really what's at work here. 767 00:35:04,690 --> 00:35:08,500 You have artistry and you have capitalism, and therein the 768 00:35:08,500 --> 00:35:10,060 two shall meet or not meet. 769 00:35:10,330 --> 00:35:15,040 You know, artistry and capitalism tends to win out over everything. 770 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:16,210 Cash rules, everything. 771 00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:17,810 Around us, basically around. 772 00:35:18,770 --> 00:35:24,560 And so before we wrap up, Calvin, do you have any final words or please let 773 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,510 our audience know about your channel and how they can find you so that 774 00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:33,680 they can be in tune for your next deep dive conversations around the 775 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,180 early two thousands as you alluded to. 776 00:35:36,168 --> 00:35:36,258 Jay Ray: Yeah. 777 00:35:36,258 --> 00:35:40,638 And also real quick, Calvin too, you have, you got, you released two 778 00:35:40,728 --> 00:35:44,598 records recently, so, uh, before tomorrow and after yesterday. 779 00:35:44,598 --> 00:35:48,378 Definitely let our folks know about your music too, where they can tune into you. 780 00:35:48,986 --> 00:35:49,376 Calvin Michaels: Yeah, look. 781 00:35:49,376 --> 00:35:51,776 After that I spent 30 minutes whacking all these artists. 782 00:35:51,776 --> 00:35:52,706 Now I gotta promote my stuff. 783 00:35:53,366 --> 00:35:54,656 Yeah, check me out y'all. 784 00:35:54,686 --> 00:35:56,006 They about this big old hater on here. 785 00:35:57,176 --> 00:36:01,196 But, um, I was also gonna say too, to your point with the capitalism, that 786 00:36:01,196 --> 00:36:05,246 was the one part I forgot to add in with K-Pop is that a lot of the acts 787 00:36:05,246 --> 00:36:08,876 that we see commercially, they've been in these almost k-pop bootcamps 788 00:36:08,876 --> 00:36:12,626 since they were young teenagers where it, it is pretty much for years. 789 00:36:12,626 --> 00:36:16,826 They, they go away and they go into these extensive dance 790 00:36:16,826 --> 00:36:19,136 courses, these extensive singing. 791 00:36:21,986 --> 00:36:24,176 Trainings and everything else like that. 792 00:36:24,416 --> 00:36:26,906 Uh, I only made that face 'cause by the time I hear them, everything 793 00:36:26,906 --> 00:36:29,006 is going through so much EQ and never, you don't know what their 794 00:36:29,333 --> 00:36:29,833 Jay Ray: You don't know 795 00:36:30,116 --> 00:36:31,826 Calvin Michaels: but um, yeah, there's no distinction. 796 00:36:31,826 --> 00:36:33,296 But yeah, they, they spend 797 00:36:33,605 --> 00:36:33,825 Sir Daniel: too. 798 00:36:34,841 --> 00:36:37,391 Calvin Michaels: These crazy contracts, they don't really make a lot of money. 799 00:36:37,391 --> 00:36:38,921 It's making everybody else money. 800 00:36:39,281 --> 00:36:43,301 And so, um, yeah, they, they do all that and it's, it's centered, again, 801 00:36:43,301 --> 00:36:46,061 around the conversation of branding and commercialism, making you the 802 00:36:46,061 --> 00:36:49,691 most perfect polished act that can be presented globally when it's 803 00:36:49,691 --> 00:36:51,191 time for you to make your arrival. 804 00:36:51,191 --> 00:36:51,731 So there's that. 805 00:36:52,061 --> 00:36:54,911 But um, yeah, as far as, um. 806 00:36:55,946 --> 00:36:56,456 I forgot where I was going with this. 807 00:36:56,456 --> 00:36:57,236 Oh, my stuff. 808 00:36:57,266 --> 00:36:57,386 Yeah. 809 00:36:57,386 --> 00:36:59,486 You can check out my website, Calvin michaels.com. 810 00:36:59,486 --> 00:37:04,436 That has everything, everything from my music to my podcast, YouTube channel. 811 00:37:04,466 --> 00:37:05,396 I have a book club. 812 00:37:05,726 --> 00:37:08,876 Um, whatever's happening with my film projects, uh, as far as my 813 00:37:08,876 --> 00:37:12,296 music, uh, I released my third and my fourth album a few months 814 00:37:12,296 --> 00:37:13,886 back, which again, before tomorrow. 815 00:37:13,886 --> 00:37:14,786 After yesterday. 816 00:37:15,086 --> 00:37:17,666 It was supposed to be one album, but I realized the songs weren't 817 00:37:17,666 --> 00:37:20,186 complimenting, and now I was like, these belong on two separate projects. 818 00:37:20,283 --> 00:37:23,043 Jay Ray: Yeah, because one is like the slow, like more of the the love 819 00:37:23,043 --> 00:37:24,728 slow jam, and one is the uptempo. 820 00:37:24,728 --> 00:37:24,968 Yeah, 821 00:37:25,106 --> 00:37:26,876 Calvin Michaels: Other one and yeah, you wanna go spin in your head. 822 00:37:26,876 --> 00:37:27,506 That's the other one. 823 00:37:27,506 --> 00:37:29,216 So, uh, yeah. 824 00:37:29,216 --> 00:37:32,156 And yeah, all my stuff is self-produced and, you know, I sit right in my 825 00:37:32,156 --> 00:37:34,946 living room, pissed off my neighbors cranking all night, all night, all day. 826 00:37:34,946 --> 00:37:38,336 They got, you gotta hear, you make a few attempts for certain notes that you're 827 00:37:38,336 --> 00:37:39,686 trying to see if you still have or not. 828 00:37:40,016 --> 00:37:43,076 Um, and so yeah, all of that's there. 829 00:37:43,376 --> 00:37:47,186 Um, I also, my end goal is more so to make music for other artists. 830 00:37:47,186 --> 00:37:47,546 I like. 831 00:37:47,891 --> 00:37:51,071 Making my own, but I really would like to start pushing in that direction and 832 00:37:51,071 --> 00:37:52,541 getting placements with other artists. 833 00:37:52,541 --> 00:37:54,191 So that's kind of my bailiwick. 834 00:37:54,191 --> 00:37:55,331 And so yeah, the albums are out. 835 00:37:55,331 --> 00:37:58,301 I also have two other albums, symphonic Euphoria and the Hardcover. 836 00:37:58,481 --> 00:37:59,831 Um, one's from 2017. 837 00:37:59,831 --> 00:38:00,731 One's from 2019. 838 00:38:00,971 --> 00:38:03,671 I took like a five year break before I came back out musically. 839 00:38:03,671 --> 00:38:06,941 So, um, yeah, so just check it out if you're into it, if you're not. 840 00:38:07,601 --> 00:38:08,021 Okay. 841 00:38:08,343 --> 00:38:08,493 Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. 842 00:38:09,483 --> 00:38:12,243 Well, there's so many entry points and thank you so much. 843 00:38:12,243 --> 00:38:13,683 Once again, I want to echo everything. 844 00:38:13,743 --> 00:38:17,493 Uh, sir Daniel said like, you're definitely one of those folks. 845 00:38:17,493 --> 00:38:19,053 True multihyphenate, right? 846 00:38:19,083 --> 00:38:22,503 Like there are so many entry points where folks can just grab you If they 847 00:38:22,503 --> 00:38:25,683 want the commentary, which y'all should check out, definitely go check out. 848 00:38:25,898 --> 00:38:27,938 Calvin's YouTube channel, you get a lot. 849 00:38:27,938 --> 00:38:30,038 So you get the music, but you also get the commentary. 850 00:38:30,248 --> 00:38:31,538 But then there's all these other things. 851 00:38:31,538 --> 00:38:33,638 Like I said, I had the opportunity to listen to the podcast. 852 00:38:33,638 --> 00:38:37,058 So you get like the storytelling, the comedy, um, there's of course 853 00:38:37,058 --> 00:38:38,498 the music, all of these pieces. 854 00:38:38,498 --> 00:38:41,468 So you give the folks, there's a way. 855 00:38:41,988 --> 00:38:44,148 For folks to engage with. 856 00:38:44,148 --> 00:38:49,008 Calvin Michaels the brand, and you see this knowledge that Calvin is dropping. 857 00:38:49,008 --> 00:38:51,318 So just thank you so much for 858 00:38:51,521 --> 00:38:52,591 Calvin Michaels: Yeah, thanks for having me. 859 00:38:52,878 --> 00:38:54,138 Jay Ray: You're very, very welcome. 860 00:38:54,138 --> 00:38:57,378 And so for all of you that are tuning in, thank you all so much 861 00:38:57,378 --> 00:38:58,578 for tuning into this episode. 862 00:38:58,578 --> 00:39:02,088 If you can see our faces and hear our voices subscribe wherever you are. 863 00:39:02,553 --> 00:39:05,073 Make sure that you go over to Calvin Michaels and subscribe 864 00:39:05,073 --> 00:39:06,783 to Calvin Michaels as well. 865 00:39:07,113 --> 00:39:09,693 You can visit the Queue Points website@Queue Points.com or you can 866 00:39:09,693 --> 00:39:11,853 see the archive of all of our episodes. 867 00:39:12,123 --> 00:39:15,333 Uh, you can also visit our, uh, magazine Queue Points mag where you 868 00:39:15,333 --> 00:39:19,473 can check out some additional content, um, that supplements some of the shows 869 00:39:19,473 --> 00:39:21,423 or, uh, compliment some of the shows. 870 00:39:21,423 --> 00:39:24,363 So definitely check that out and definitely shop our store 871 00:39:24,363 --> 00:39:26,383 too@store.Queue Points.com. 872 00:39:26,643 --> 00:39:28,803 We appreciate y'all, we love y'all. 873 00:39:29,485 --> 00:39:31,195 Sir Daniel: Absolutely another one. 874 00:39:31,375 --> 00:39:34,285 Jay Ray, what do I always say at the end of every episode in 875 00:39:34,285 --> 00:39:35,695 this life, you have a choice. 876 00:39:35,695 --> 00:39:38,995 You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play. 877 00:39:38,995 --> 00:39:40,105 I'm DJ Serani. 878 00:39:40,578 --> 00:39:41,853 Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray, y'all. 879 00:39:41,898 --> 00:39:43,118 That's Calvin Michaels 880 00:39:43,810 --> 00:39:46,090 Sir Daniel: And this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping 881 00:39:46,090 --> 00:39:48,700 the needle on black music history. 882 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,560 We'll see you on the next go round. 883 00:39:50,770 --> 00:39:51,310 Peace. 884 00:39:51,608 --> 00:39:52,278 Jay Ray: Peace y'all.