What's up, everybody?

I want to come on here and give you all the heads up.

This episode you're about to listen to, it's a hard one.

It's very dark and disturbing about a woman that has lost her children due to her husband sexually assaulting them.

So very crazy story, hard to listen to and is one of these ones that is hard to make sense with how much corruption and what is going on with this court case in the judges and everybody involved.

So if you're an attorney or a lawyer that want to take on a crazy case, check this episode out, give it a listen.

And as always for everybody, we love you and we appreciate the support.

Warning the following content contains elements that are not suitable for some audiences.

References to sexual assault, abuse and potential trauma, including discussion of sexual violence.

Viewer discretion is advised.

The world needs to hear what's going on with you.

I am living my worst nightmare.

It's disgusting and horrific and I don't know how to function knowing that I can't protect my kids.

I was stripped fully.

I have no say in my kids lives.

They pulled your kids from you.

They stole your children from you.

Family courts, our system uses parents love for their children as a means to make money.

They are using our children.

This is the most I've ever heard in my life.

Are you ready?

Yeah, I'm ready.

This is going to be a tough episode just for everybody listening.

Well, before we go into anything, we're going to send you home with a fresh loaf of bread.

Thank you.

Happy?

Absolutely.

Delicious.

From the girls.

They got you a fresh whipped bread downstairs.

Okay.

Natalia, we got a pretty rough story to dive into today.

It's your story that you're currently living a nightmare.

Yeah.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

This is why I wanted to have this conversation because this is absolutely frightening of what you're battling right now with the family courts and everything.

Yes.

So grew up in Utah.

Yes.

In the LDS community.

Yes.

You married a perfect little Mormon boy, which you thought.

Yes.

Life is great.

You start a family with him.

He moves you from Salt Lake area to Nebraska.

Missouri.

Sorry, Missouri.

Moves you to Missouri.

Where his family is located.

Yes.

In a small little town.

During this time, you find out that your kid's father is sexually assaulting, abusing, manipulating your children.

You take your children and go get the test, the evidence, the facts, the documents, and you do it all.

I feel what I've read done the right process as a mother.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For sure.

During this time, your baby's father which is obviously still in the LDS community.

His father is a higher ranking member of the Mormon Church, which you feel is.

Has a lot of power and pull in this community with the judges and everything else that's going on.

And during this whole entire nightmare you're living, you have lost full custody of your children.

Yes.

Okay.

Which we need to make this make sense because of what I have read and briefly talked about.

This is wild to me.

Like, this is.

This is our family court system at its best of doing what it does best, and that is destroying families and doing the wrong thing.

So.

Yep.

Okay, Talia, let's dive into this.

Who are you?

Where are you from?

And let's get to the story because the world needs to hear what's going on with you.

Yeah.

So like you said, I. I was born and raised in Utah, Raised in the Mormon Church.

Super strong.

I was really just.

It was my whole identity.

I loved the church, I think mostly because I just love God and I love Jesus.

Okay.

And then I served a mission.

I only lasted like three months.

And then I came home early because of depression and anxiety, which was something I was diagnosed with as a teenager.

So I recognized.

I was like, I'm not doing well.

I need help, got help, changed my medication, went to therapy, did all the things.

Six months after being home, I met my ex husband, Richard.

He's six and a half years older than me, so he was older and I was, I think when we met, I was still.

I think I just barely turned 20.

So I was still super young, super naive.

And the Mormon church pushes getting married early, like young, which I hate now, now that I've been through.

What I've been through is like, oh, my gosh, like, figure out who you are, please, before you add another person into your life, because you have no idea what could happen.

So, yeah, we got married.

And how long did you guys date before getting married?

We dated.

We got married 13 months after we met.

Okay.

But we would only hang out like once a week.

So there wasn't a whole lot of, like, I don't know, really getting to know a person.

Do you.

We got to know each other, but not.

Do you feel the marriage was rushed or pushed because of the church?

Like, in being in the LDS community, is it like, this is something that has to happen or was this at your guys's own pace?

It was mostly both.

He was about.

He had a year before when we first met.

He had one more year of his master's degree and then he was going to move back To Missouri.

Okay.

So I knew, okay, if we really progress, then I will probably have to marry him so we can keep staying together and move to Missouri.

So that's kind of what happened.

It was a. Weird.

Weird.

Yeah.

Just everything was weird, and I felt something was off, but I didn't really question it.

I just was like, he served a mission.

He's a active Mormon of, like, his dad's in the stake presidency.

He has this big family, and I had visited the family on two occasions.

We flew out to West Plains.

And so, like, I think I just talked myself into it.

I was like, even though we don't have, like, a super, like, deep emotional bond, he's a good man, and I would be stupid if I didn't marry him.

Okay.

Kind of a thing.

Okay.

So during this 18 months that you guys are dating, seeing each other once a month, I mean, you said things were kind of off where there's.

Looking back on it now, where there red flags then, or was everything kind of just young, new, and you're just trying to figure out life together?

There were some things that, like, I could tell he was likely going to be a workaholic.

Okay.

He was on his phone a lot there.

There was just, like, something off with the energy.

And back then, I was not very aware, energetically or spiritually or whatever.

Like, I. I had a connection with God, and I loved God and Jesus, and I still do, but I wasn't.

I just believed people were who they said they were.

If.

So if someone says that they are this person and says these things, I believe them.

I just assume people tell the truth.

People are honest.

And, yeah, he's just a super handsome, tall, athletic person who played rugby.

He did all the things.

He checked all the boxes, and I just was like, like, what girl wouldn't want to be with him?

Got it.

It's like the dream.

Okay, so you guys go and get married.

Yeah.

Did you get married in the temple?

Yes.

Okay, so you go through that whole entire process.

How long was it before he moved you to.

I keep wanting to say Arkansas.

Missouri.

Missouri.

I don't know why Arkansas is ingrained in my head for this, but Missouri.

Sorry.

They're neighbors.

Same.

Same.

Right.

Yeah.

I bet you they're all like, it's not the same.

Okay, so Missouri.

So during this dating time, freshly newlyweds, did you.

You knew that you would be relocating to Missouri?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

The plan.

So we got married in Utah in the Draper Temple and immediately went on our honeymoon.

And then everything had already been moved To Missouri.

Okay.

Not that I had a whole lot of stuff, but we moved to Missouri and then yeah, straight from the honeymoon we went and stayed in his parents basement.

How long were you guys at his house?

Three years.

You lived in the basement for three years?

Yep.

How was that?

Lonely.

Isolating.

In my mind at the time though, I was like, fine.

I was like, it's okay.

Just because like I was in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, Richard's working so hard to get this treatment facility up and running, which is like a super great, wonderful thing for all these students and all these kids.

And I'm just going to be the supportive wife and just trust that like in time we'll be able to get a house.

It was a small town and it wasn't really easy to meet people and there weren't a lot of people my age in the like church.

Okay.

Group ward, it's called ward.

The local Mormon church area.

And so I didn't have a whole lot of like friends.

So it was isolating.

But I got pregnant with my first six months into the pregnancy, into the marriage, unplanned.

And that became like my purpose.

That became my like kind of my saving grace.

Like I put everything into being a mom and I loved it.

Yeah.

So, so that's why I'm okay.

So you're excited.

You're starting this whole new life with your family.

You're staying at the parent in law's house until he gets his.

You said treatment facility up and running.

Yes.

You guys get pregnant and now life is.

How is life at this point for you?

You said you were isolated, but now that you got the baby on the way, you're excited.

I mean, are things change or is it all staying the same?

I got actually, I had really bad prepartum illness and depression.

So the, the pregnancy was really actually rough on me.

So I was in bed a lot during the pregnancy, which was hard.

But after I had my son, I felt way better and things got a lot better.

So I think because of how like physically unwell I was, I didn't really pay much attention to marriage or anything.

Like he was always gone working.

So there wasn't, there wasn't a whole lot.

Like, are you getting close with his parents at this point?

I mean, you're living with them.

Do you see them every day or is this like a basement apartment where you come and go on your own?

What's the living conditions like?

Because I mean you're living with him for three years, so you have to get to.

Is his mom around during the day?

Is his dad around?

Like, how is this dynamic working?

Yeah, his dad is not around very often.

He'll.

He gets home late in the evenings from work, and his mom was around a lot.

And so.

And we shared the kitchen, so I was upstairs anytime I needed to cook something.

But I like to keep to myself.

Like, when I'm home, I'm home.

I'm not trying to socialize, but every time we would run into each other, like, it was.

It was always, like, nice.

Okay.

It was always nice to see her.

And we always got along.

There was never any issues with her after we had the baby.

I know.

I could tell.

She raised 10 children.

Jeez.

Okay.

And I could tell she was, like, past, like, being a mom and having, like, every time cousins would come over and she was the one just, like, obligated to watch them.

I know.

I could see that it was hard.

Like, it was.

She was checked out.

Exhausting for her.

Okay.

She.

Not that she was checked out, but she was not, like, actively, like, it wasn't what she wanted to do with her time.

She was.

She was like, I did that whole thing trying to raise my grandkids, you know?

Yeah.

She's tired of kids.

She wants to live.

Her grandparents, of course.

Like, I understand that.

And so I would always tell Richard, like, if I'm.

Because anytime he was home, which wasn't a whole lot, he would watch the baby so that I could rest because I was on baby duty 24 7.

And so while I would rest, he would take a call or go do his side job of Barnwood and Barnton and.

And leave.

Leave our child with his mom.

And I would always be like, just come wake me up.

Because I know it bothers her.

Like, I know she doesn't want to.

Okay.

Raise our child.

So you're not trying to put more of a burden on your.

Your mother in law.

Yeah, all right, I get that.

But that would never be the case.

He would always leave our son with his mom.

And so it became this thing that, like, I was the problem.

I dumped my child on Sandy.

That was like, the family, like, rumor, okay.

Among his family, like, oh, Sandy's watching the baby again.

Meanwhile, you're just trying to get a nap because you have no.

Yeah, okay, I get that.

And also, like, I was around, so, like, the majority of the time, 24 7, like, I was around watching my child.

And so all of their weird little claims trying to be like, she was an uninvolved deadbeat mom, like, are so false.

Okay.

And that infuriates me for sure.

Especially if you're not.

Yeah.

Like I have no life.

I have nowhere to go.

Of course.

Like, I want to be with my child.

He is the only reason I am.

I have like, he's.

He's my purpose.

Yeah.

So you said that he's always gone.

What I get.

Actually, we'll wait.

I want to know what he's doing later on.

So how.

You have two children, correct?

Yes.

So now these little bickers or rumors or little inside the family bickering is going on because you're trying to get a nap in.

Every now and then, whenever he is home, he dumps it off with your mom.

So that starts happening.

This.

How long does this go on for?

The three years or was toward the end or what.

How quick did that happen?

I feel like the family gossip was constant.

If they're not talking about someone, they're talking about someone else.

Okay.

Just within their family.

So that's just like common within their family dynamic.

And so I kind of didn't really like it pissed.

It pissed me off.

But I didn't take it in the sense of like, it's me against them.

I was more like it's them against each other all the time.

Okay.

Very competitive.

Weird, weird dynamic.

Okay.

I'm sorry, what was the question?

Well, it was just how long did that go on for?

Did it start right away or did that happen like toward the end of your three years of living there or do you.

Were you dealing with this the whole time?

It was like a few months after having my son.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Which we had him.

How long was that?

After we got married, we.

I got pregnant six months in and then nine months from there.

So.

Okay, yeah.

So you said his dad is a higher ranking in the Mormon church.

What is he?

What does the dad do?

Exactly.

So while we were still married and living with them, he was the stake president and he was.

Stake president?

Yes.

Okay, can you explain a stake president?

Yes.

So a stake president is someone who oversees all the little like community wards.

So a ward is a church?

Yes.

A ward is like one little section of a surrounding area where they all are like neighbors to an extent.

So like, let's take Ogden, Utah.

Yeah.

Would Ogden be its own ward or would there be multiple wards in Ogden?

There would be multiple wards and probably multiple stakes in Ogden because it's Utah.

I mean, Utah is very.

Was that a bad example?

I'm just trying to go off of areas that, you know, so that I can reference to so, so, so in a.

Okay, let's just take your small town.

Where do you, where are you guys living out there now?

We were living in West Plains.

Okay, so you take West Plains that he overlooks.

Just West Plains or does it go out from there, Neighboring communities and things like that?

Because there's not a lot of Mormon temples in the area.

So he's overlooking areas and not just.

Temples, church buildings as well.

Okay.

It, it all is based off of attending members.

Okay.

I think they base it off of tithe payers, which is weird.

I've heard this before.

It's like, okay, whoever's paying tithing is a real member and I think that's.

I mean that makes sense to me.

So.

So, okay, so his dad, your.

Your kid's husband, your kid's father is a war.

Is a stake president in the church.

So he's in his own town and then overlooks the surrounding towns.

That's where we're at with this.

Yeah, I think his stake.

Excuse me, was like a two hour radius, I believe.

Okay.

So he's got some pole in the church and he's obviously people know him and who he is in his community.

Yes.

And also he's the town surgeon or he was, he was, he owned a surgery center.

He was an eye doctor.

And I heard rumors from a few different people that he was financially tied to, to other locals.

So.

Okay, I cannot confirm or deny that, but that was something that was shared specifically within the stake presidency, which were his people, the men who worked under him in his.

Okay, so just.

So I'm, I'm tracking.

This dude is the stake president, he's the community surgeon and eye surgeon.

Yes.

And then also what you've heard rumors that he's connected to other businesses financially in, in his community.

So this dude's well known in his little small town because I come from a real small town.

Everybody knows everybody.

If you have a business or you're anything.

So what is hit.

What does your mother in law do?

What is her tie to the community?

She, you know, I don't really know.

Like she would always have a calling in the Mormon church.

So she would help in the like church community.

Okay, the local church community.

But her ties don't run like his do.

No, she would help her, her sons with their Eagle Scout projects.

Okay.

So I know one of the things that became the usual was like this big trunk or treat event and that was kind of her, her thing.

Okay.

That she would oversee.

So when you were out with these people, because obviously they're your parent laws are.

When you go out in town with them, are people.

Do people know who they are?

Are they saying hi to everybody?

They rubbing elbows with the community and everything like this?

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

People, people know the Jones family.

They.

Okay, 10 kids, piercing blue, beautiful big eyes.

You can't miss them.

They all went to high school at different times.

Like, yeah, that.

Everyone knows that family.

Okay.

And then just like Rob's the eye surgeon and yeah, they, they are involved in the community.

Very athletic.

A lot of them are very athletic.

Okay.

So they, they were out and about a lot.

Okay.

And when we would go out, people would recognize them for sure.

Did you ever get introduced to anybody or anybody along that you later on thought like, oh, this, this is actually going against.

I'm just trying to paint this picture of who these people are.

So they live in a small community.

Obviously they have Pole.

He's a higher ranking guy at the Mormon Church.

He's got local businesses that everybody probably goes him to see their eyes and get surgeries done.

Is he connected with any other cops, anybody else in this town?

Did you ever rub elbows with anybody within this community?

Yeah, there were.

I can think of two instances specifically.

So we went to.

We were newly married.

We went to the state fair.

Okay.

And not the state fair.

It was the West Plains town fair.

Okay.

And I remember we were with his parents and they specifically introduced me to one of the local West Plains judges.

So I shook hands with the judge who was their friend.

Got it.

I don't remember who he was.

I just remember he was a judge.

And then there was another instance when they own a lot of property near West Plains, but it's a little bit out of the area.

Okay.

And the, the land they bought was right next to a good family friend of theirs also owned land right next to them neighboring.

Okay.

And the good friend owned this glamping ranch for horse riders.

All right.

And he passed away soon after I got married to Richard.

And Richard and his family grew up riding horses there.

Like they were always on that land doing stuff.

Rob wanted to buy that land and his widowed wife, the passed away widowed wife, she still wanted to be a part of the camping community.

Yep.

I don't know all the details, but I remember specifically I went with her, the widowed wife, and then one of Richard's friends and his wife who came to work on that camping program thing.

And then Richard and me, we all went to this community gathering.

I don't, I don't know what it, what you would call it, but it's like it was this gathering where they were giving this widowed woman an award for her ranch, for their camping thing.

And I was just kind of like a bystander watching.

I got to sit in and all these different higher up organizations from West Plains were present.

What type of organizations?

Any.

Any that were like doing well, I feel like.

So like restaurant owners or like law firms probably.

I was this young, naive girl that just was going for fun.

Okay.

So they're like awarding her with her help to the community or whatever it may be in that area.

So a lot of other local businesses came to support this.

I don't know that it was to support.

I think it was more like they do this monthly maybe where they just come together as like business owners.

Okay.

Who knows?

I don't know what they do.

I just remember going to that and thinking like, oh, is this like a normal thing?

Like, do communities come together with like, they're more wealthy people who own, who own actual, like, property to support the community.

Okay, so now looking back, I'm like, that's a little suspicious.

Okay, now knowing what I know.

Okay, so as time goes on, how is life laying out for you?

Got your, you got your first kid.

How long into the marriage before you got pregnant again?

About.

We, we got pregnant with her a little less than two years after our son.

Okay, so, okay, so you're two years in, you get pregnant again.

Are you out of the house by this point?

We, we moved out just like two months before I gave birth to.

Okay.

Our second.

Okay, so you guys finally are now on your own.

You got your own place.

How's life going for you at this point?

How's your guys's marriage?

How's the dynamic?

How's everything going?

The dynamic is in my, in my mind at the time.

Fine.

Okay.

I just, in my mind I'm thinking like, okay, he has this new treatment facility that's opening.

He's going to be working all the time.

Even though he already was working all the time, the amount of time he was working upped.

He was working 80 plus hours a week all the time.

And then he would be on call.

If anything were to happen at night with the students, he would be the one to go or like probably take them to the hospital or whatever.

So he was, he was not around very often.

But I loved being at home and I like, I loved being in my own little house with my kids and we had our routine and we would go on walks and just play outside all the time and it was.

I miss it.

Sure.

Yeah, I'm sure.

I'm sorry that you gotta relive this right now.

Okay.

So life is going on is his treatment.

You said he has a treatment facility?

Yes.

What is this treatment facility?

It is an a housing unit for students.

So they come, they're inpatients, they're living on the property in these little teeny dorms.

And these students are minor, so anywhere from the ages, I believe it's 12 to 18 or maybe 21.

And they, most of them are victims of abuse or have substance abuse issues.

And so they're vulnerable minors who come live in this facility.

They do group therapy, they do family therapy on Zoom.

They do schooling from the computers and then they do, like chores and stuff.

They.

They spend time with the horses and I think they have sheeps and goats or sheep and goats.

So how did he.

This is your.

Your children's father's facility.

So you're.

This is your ex's facility.

Did he build this or did he buy this?

How does he.

Where did this facility come from?

Yeah, so he was.

It's kind of a process.

So he was an intern in Utah for a facility in Utah.

Okay.

That facility in Utah, like sistered his facility.

So they were under a three year contract that they would help facilitate students.

They would help advertise for his facility so that he was ensured that he would have students coming in.

Oh, so they're filtering.

They're just feeding him clients.

Clients.

Are they Mormon?

Is this Mormon base or is this for anybody?

Technically, it's for anybody, but they are Mormons.

Okay.

So he had that.

That was a huge help in starting the facility.

But then also his dad owned that property I told you about.

Okay.

And that's where they built the facility.

They built the facility on that property.

And his dad funded, like I'm pretty sure his dad funded.

He.

He assisted in the loan funding.

And his dad legally owns 51%, and then Richard owns 49%.

Okay.

All right, so this guy that has molested your children owns a facility that helps rehabilitate children that have been molested and have drug abuse problems.

Right?

Am I tracking that correctly?

Yes.

Hey.

Yes.

That makes no sense to me.

So.

Okay, I'm trying to.

I'm just trying to put these pieces together.

Welcome to America.

Right.

Okay, so this guy you were married to, you have two children, he's now has a.

A rehab facility on his dad's place that help rehab children that have been molested, abused, drug abuse.

That's going on.

That's his business that he's running.

And now where are we at with you?

We're.

We're.

How far into the.

His new facilities going on and all this?

Do you find out that this guy is actually molesting your children?

I didn't find out about the molestation.

My.

My son.

My children didn't disclose anything until it was December 8th of 2023.

Okay, so we got married in 2017.

17.

Okay, so you're six years in.

Okay, so you're six Years into your marriage, roughly.

Well, we had started the divorce process.

That's the thing.

We had started.

So I.

Going back, I.

Out of nowhere, I'm big on my relationship with God and, like, receiving personal revelation.

Okay.

I was saying a prayer one night in April of 2021, and during that prayer, I felt God was like, you need to divorce Richard.

There are things he will never be honest with you about.

And I hated hearing that, and I didn't want to, and it didn't make sense to me.

But I finally faced Richard two weeks later and was like, hey, this happened, and I feel like we need to probably, like, we need to get a divorce.

And I don't think I even specified in how I felt.

Like, God revealed to me that he was being dishonest.

It was more so that, like, I feel like this needs to happen.

Okay.

He asked if we could do couples therapy, which we did.

So we did couples therapy for about five or six months.

And the bishop, the church bishop, the Mormon church, local bishop funded our couples therapy, which was not cheap, and it was twice a month.

And who's your therapist?

Is this a third party therapist or is this given to you through the church?

No, she was someone we found.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

So there's no ties to the church on this?

All right?

No.

Okay, so you're going through therapy.

How did he take the news that you wanted a divorce?

He was very blindsided.

Okay.

I'd never seen him that emotional before about anything.

It was weird.

Not like, for.

For me at the time.

I was like, oh, he really loves me.

He really wants me to be his companion in life.

Like, this sucks.

Like, of course, yes, let's do couples therapy.

So this is the first time in your relationship.

Are you thinking that he's, like, actually fighting and wants this?

Is this what you're feeling for the first time or no.

Or is this just because you said you were blindsided with this?

So is this.

He doesn't ever show emotion prior to this?

Has he been pretty dry then?

Now that you bring up the divorce.

Is he.

Now he's trying.

Is this what you're getting at?

Yeah.

We always had a lack in an emotional communication and connection.

Okay.

It was mostly like, okay, you're the husband, I'm the wife.

You.

You work all the time.

I take care of the kids.

Okay.

There's not really anything else to it.

There was nothing in between for you guys?

Yeah, we weren't really friends.

So when.

When you.

You're praying and you said you get the word and you feel that you need to get a divorce, were there signs at this point or is it just a disconnection?

You're just not feeling it?

So there's nothing like he's not putting his hands on you?

There's no.

No, he's not drinking and doing all this crazy and cheating on you and all this other stuff, right?

Yeah.

Nothing.

Trying to get this picture.

Okay.

I was like, like, yeah, we don't have a great relationship, but it's not that bad.

Like, I just assumed things were fine.

And so that came out of left field for me.

Okay.

It didn't make sense in my mind.

All right?

We did six months or whatever of therapy, and then during a therapy session, I realized, oh, my gosh, like, there is no accountability in this man.

Like, he's not taking accountability.

He always had an excuse, and it was always, like, returned back onto me.

Okay.

And so in my mind, I'm, like, reliving my parents marriage because that's how my parents marriage was.

And I never wanted to have that kind of a relationship because my.

My parents marriage was always tumultuous.

All right?

And I promised myself, like, I'm not going to do that to my kids.

I'm not going to do that to myself.

And so as soon as that happened and I had that epiphany, I was like, no, like, we need to follow through with the divorce.

And so he actually hurried really quick and filed.

I think he was afraid I was going to take the kids to Utah and file there, so he filed really quickly after that.

And that opened the door to, like, so many more epiphanies.

What.

What epiphanies?

Initially, I was hoping we wouldn't have to go through, like, attorneys and everything, and we could agree on everything, but that was not the case.

So we got attorneys, and my attorney was requesting all of these documents, like the deed to our house and titles of our cars and everything.

And that was the first time I'd ever reviewed any of those documents.

I never was a part of any of that stuff.

Financially.

Okay.

And I discovered that on all of the titles of our cars, even the car that I drive, that was like, my car.

I don't own it.

I. I'm not an owner of that vehicle.

And then I saw the title of our house, and on that document, it has Richard's father's name listed as a 50 owner.

Richard owns a fourth, and I own a fourth.

And my parents paid the down payment of that house.

And my parents and I were never informed that that was going to be the case.

They never let us in to know that Rob was going to own half of this house.

And Rob put nothing down on the house?

No, he was the co signer, but he didn't put any money on it.

Okay.

But he owns half of it.

Got it.

And that, to me, was so weird.

And when I confronted Richard, I was like, rob is on the title of our house and he owns 50% of it.

And I remember Richard was like, we had no idea that that was going to be the case.

Like, that's not like he denied it.

He had to have been there for closing statements and signing it.

Yeah, no, that doesn't work that way.

You don't just happen to put somebody's name on a title of a home.

Kind of a big purchase, and there's a lot of paperwork to sign, and all agreeing parties need to be there to sign paperwork.

And I was there and I signed, but they.

They told me, and Rob was there, and so was Sandy.

Both of the parents were there, and I didn't think anything of it because I was told they are co signing.

So because they're co signing, they're.

Excuse me, they're present.

But now, looking back, Sandy was being weird.

Her energy was weird that day.

And I was like, why?

What's weird?

Like, we're getting house and come to.

Find out that they took half the house or own half the house.

Y.

Okay, so the divorce gets filed.

Now you start finding these little weird things.

The deeds, the titles, everything.

His dad is on everything or owns half of everything.

So now this all comes out.

Does that help solidify your decision to start this divorce process?

Are you just like, oh, holy shit.

Like, okay, this is all weird.

This is pointing in the right direction.

I. I already felt solid in the decision of the divorce.

Okay.

Even though we still lived together while we were separated, he refused to move out.

So there were times where I would, like, miss him and be sad and we would think, okay, maybe we'll work through this.

But I could not ignore, like, the dishonesty and that piqued my interest in thinking like, okay, what else are they lying about?

What else have I been lied about?

And so I did more digging after I discovered those documents.

Did you find anything else more?

Yes.

What'd you find?

I found some pretty.

We won't get into the graphics of it all, but I found some pretty horrifying private messages between him and some of his friends joking about pedophilia and also specifically explicitly sexualizing both of our minor children.

As a joke, thinking it's funny.

Hahaha.

Let's joke about pedophilia on multiple occasions.

And he also specifically joked in one of his little memes that he sent to a friend.

He joked specifically about getting caught by child protective services with one of his students.

Not one of them, but with his students.

That was a joke.

That was a joke.

He sent.

Hahaha, I'm going to get caught by CPS molesting my students.

He's joking about this with one of his buddies.

Yep.

This is prior to you finding out that he.

Yes.

Had molested your children.

Yes.

Okay, so.

That's got to be weird.

And I have the receipts.

I have all the receipts.

And so does law enforcement.

So do all these people who have investigated all this crap.

Okay, so you discover these text messages between your ex and one of his buddies joking about pedophilia with kids.

A few different buddies, but yeah.

A few different buddies, yes.

Is this in a group chat or are they all individually sent?

Well, there was the group chat, which was a bunch of his buddies who are all married Mormons who all just joke about really nasty weird crap.

A lot of it that he, he would send were memes about like weird graphic gay stuff.

Okay.

Then also like bestiality stuff and then pedophilic stuff and then people in real time dying either by gunshot or falling bad on their neck or something.

Just like weird icky stuff that like messes with your mind.

Dark.

Yes.

And it was like maybe five messages a day he was sending of this type of stuff.

Yes.

So there's a lot of content being.

Sent, years of content.

I'm trying to like as a dude, I'm trying to just, I mean I've been in a lot of group chats and things like that and I obviously, you know, me being a vet will send some war footage and things like that, but I'm trying to ever think if anybody has ever sent anything beastiality or even kid related in and I'm in some group.

Not anymore.

I don't even one single Group chat anymore, but I don't think I've ever, ever had anybody send me anything like that.

And I've been, I've been in some group chats.

Pretty up dudes.

Yeah.

So that's not normal, in my opinion.

No, in my opinion, that's not normal.

There's no, there's no joking about pedophilia.

You're either 40 or against it.

There's no middle ground.

There's no dipping a toe into that world with children.

Or there's, there's, there's a, there is a solid ass line.

Yes.

You're either a hundred percent against it or you're 100 for it.

There's no, like, oh, this is funny.

This is some kid.

There, there's, there's none of that, in my opinion.

No, like, it lights a fire in me to like the point of I want to throw up and I want to like.

Yeah.

So when you find this, these graphic child pornography, pedophilia, joking, according to your ex, text messages with all his buddies.

What did that register in you?

What's going through your mind at this point and how did you find them?

So he never changed his, his login to his social media.

Okay.

And we were still living in the same house.

Okay.

So I logged into his social media and that's where I saw all these messages.

It was in his Instagram private messaging.

What type, Sorry, what type of gay is he sending?

Is it like, I have to ask?

Because me being in the military.

Yeah.

The gayest shit I've ever seen was in the military.

Yeah.

Just especially marines.

There's always a lot of ass grab stuff.

There are some gay shit the dudes will send, joking wise.

But what triggered that for you?

I remember one.

I don't want to get into the graphics of it, but like stuff about like butt club butt plugs getting stuck inside of someone and if you want to chop that off, you can.

No, we're good.

He had this one specific profile of this, this man who would always like, do weird sexual stuff, like weird behavior.

Like that's all he would.

That's the only content this guy would post.

Like, weird.

And he was.

And so he was like, not even like sexy.

Like, like, what's the name that one movie that everyone jokes about of all the men dancing with.

Oh, is it a book?

And they turned it into a movie?

I don't know, but it's a famous.

One with Chandum Tatum, Fanning Tatum.

Thank you.

Yeah, whatever.

You know, you know what I'm talking about.

It Wasn't even that stuff.

It was like, weird.

And.

And the guy posting these videos was not, like, attractive.

He was like this short, stubby, and his face was kind of weird.

It was, it was uncomfortable.

It wasn't like, oh, wow, that's so attractive, like, funny.

It was like, weird.

Was it one time or did you find multiple of this guy?

No, that was like his favorite memer to send to his group, his buddies.

Was that guy on constant?

Just like, constant.

He has a thing for this dude?

Probably.

I don't know.

But the amount of stuff I remember, I would, like, read through to try and screenshot anything that I thought was concerning to share with my attorney for a good two weeks.

And I remember feeling so icky for those two weeks, like I. I couldn't even like, function normal, even though it was like, for like an hour to two hours of scrolling.

Because it's years and years of gross crap.

Yeah, yeah.

And some of the things I found were horrifying.

You got two years that you're going back through and trying to go through this dude's stuff and you're just uncovering just filth in his.

Which, I mean, a lot of guys are gonna have up stuff.

I mean, I guess we all do.

But not anything kid related.

That's a hundred percent out of the question.

And you said he's fine.

You're finding really weird gay that he's sending to.

Yeah.

And the animal stuff.

Oh, didn't even touch on that.

Well, well, there was one.

I remember there was a llama doing something that was sexualized.

Okay.

And one of Richard's responses with that meme that he sent was.

Was spec.

Like, he sends the meme and then he says, o, we got to get this llama for our students at the center.

Okay.

So this dude, you're.

Yeah.

He's.

He's relating sexual, weird animal crap to his facility students, his minors.

That's a joke.

That have already been sexually abused at some point in their life.

Some of them.

Some of them sexually, mentally, drug addicts.

These kids all come from a very hurt background.

Yes.

And your ex is now making references and jokes about bestiality.

Gay kid.

About these students.

Yes, there were a few specific, like specifically joking about his facility students.

Okay.

And then there were jokes.

Specifically joking about, I'm on that new pedophilic train.

Like, that's the new train.

Like, I'm on that new train.

Or there was one joke.

Yeah.

And then there was one joking about when the.

The big cathedral in Europe was burnt down.

I Think it was in Paris.

There was a meme of that building and on it, it said, when the police come and you have to get rid of your child porn stash.

So he sends that and, and after he sent that, he says, haha, too far.

Maybe, but.

Oh, well, joking.

I'm starting to like, breathe heavily.

Like my.

Yeah, this is, there's, there's, like I said, there's no, there's no gray.

There's zero gray area in between with child, pedophilia, child anything?

No.

Okay.

Oh, God.

Okay, so all this is out.

This is just during your divorce process.

You haven't even discovered what he's done to your children yet.

Correct.

Okay, so now that you have gone through, you're.

You're seeing your ex or current husband at the time, you're scrolling through his dms, you're seeing pedophilia jokes, bestiality jokes and memes, game jokes and memes.

So you have full.

Dying people die.

So you're finding like a dark, A dark side to your husband at this point while you're in the process of starting this divorce.

Yes.

What, what do you do?

What's your thought process at this point?

Like, what the hell is going through your mind after finding all this?

Well, initially I'm thinking, okay, he is like, mentally not okay.

For sure.

Something is very off.

Like, nor normal, healthy men or women don't.

This is not funny to them.

Okay.

You don't joke about this.

I, I remember sending it to a few, like, close family members.

And also I sent all of it to my attorney at the time.

And I was like, what do I do?

Like, do I go to the police?

How do I move forward?

And my attorney at the time basically said, this stuff is incredibly concerning and we can bring it up in court, but it's not hard evidence that he's actually committing, Committing a crime.

Which, knowing what I know now, if I was the attorney over the case, I would have absolutely submitted that.

Submitted that and been like, we are going to order this man to have a psychosexual evaluation.

And for anybody listening, I recently found this out from talking about previous guests.

A psychosexual evaluation is where they sit you down, they run you through a series of questions and to see your responses on how likely you are to reoffend or offend or how likely you are to be into kids in a way.

Right?

Yeah.

Okay, so you turn all this evidence in, obviously, with how our.

If we're going to go off the legal system, he technically hasn't committed any Crime.

But yes, there's no middle area on child pornography or pedophilia.

I want to make that I agree because there's, there's no excuse I, I especially the way that this, our country is going and they're trying to like make things normal.

There's no normal, no to anything with children.

And so this is where like I, I stand such a hard ground on that.

Like, no, we're not.

There's no joking about children, especially pedophilia, and no making comments to kids that are in a facility.

So you turn all this in, you kind shot down, your attorney collects it as evidence.

I guess if it's ever going to get used, she doesn't use it in court.

Where do you go from here?

Where?

Which, what's your next step?

As far as the process of divorce.

How far into this are you?

So we tried mediation.

That got nowhere.

I mind you, I wanted to relocate to Utah.

I had no support in Missouri.

After the divorce process happened, it felt like I had even less support from people that I thought were my friends.

So I was pushing.

Initially I wanted to relocate to Springfield.

That's what I would.

I asked Richard, I was like, what if I move to Springfield?

It's like an hour 45 minutes away from West Plains.

There's way more work opportunity.

I can be out of your little town that knows all the Joneses and I can start fresh and we can be close and we can co parent, do like a hybrid homeschooling or just homeschooling situation, blah, blah, blah.

He wouldn't budge on anything.

If I wanted to see my kids 50 of the time, I had to live in West Plains.

Okay.

So after mediation, I was like, okay, he's not going to compromise on anything.

So when we went to our very first trial, it was January of 2023.

We didn't present any of the weird, grody messages.

Why?

My attorney didn't feel like it was necessary.

And your attorney is a local to this town or where did you find your attorney?

The attorney that I had was like an hour away from the town.

Okay.

So she doesn't have tides to this community.

I had a new attorney, my previous attorney that I had, I realized she was overcharging me and there were other clients that she was charging way less because of Google reviews.

Okay.

And I didn't like that.

So I was like, I'm gonna find a new attorney who's not gonna like overcharge me and be shady.

Okay.

I found this one man who was actually a great Attorney.

But he also didn't feel like we had any substantiation in presenting those messages.

Okay, that's not the route I would have taken.

But at the time, I was this young, naive girl.

I trusted all attorneys.

I was like, attorneys are here to help you.

They have your best interest at heart.

They're not just going to bleed you dry.

Wrong.

He was.

I mean, in our, in our initial trial, it went well, and I had multiple family members there and a local friend there, and everyone felt like, okay, yeah, like, there's no reason that you won't be able to relocate with the children and have joint custody with Richard.

Even Richard's proposed judgment with his attorney was that I would relocate to Utah.

Okay.

But that I would have way less time with the kids.

Okay.

So in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, the judge is going to come out with some sort of middle ground.

I'll get to relocate to Utah, even if it's just for like six months to a year where I can like, reground, stay with my parents, get my feet, like whatever that terminology is.

Get your feet underneath you and whatever.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so that was the plan.

And I, like, a few weeks after trial, we didn't have the judgment yet.

And so my, my assumption was, okay, in like two months max, we'll hear from the judge and I'll have.

We'll have our whole custody arrangement and everything.

So I was like, okay, I'm gonna relocate to Utah and get things ready to go, and I'll visit the kids frequently, like, as frequently as I can afford.

Okay.

And a week after I moved, relocated to Utah, I went back to Missouri and spent a whole week with my kids.

And I FaceTime them every day.

And.

And then like three weeks later, I went to Missouri again and visited them for another week.

Still nothing from the judge.

And then like four weeks later, I went and visited them again.

Still nothing from the judge.

And so then I had everything ready to move back to Missouri because we hadn't heard from the judge, which was super weird.

Okay.

I hated living away from my kids.

Yep.

I. I literally had my housing and my job ready.

Everything was ready to move back.

And Richard said, no, stay in Utah and I'll pay for all travel costs.

We'll split summer.

So I was like, okay, so we split summer.

So I got the kids half of the summer in Utah.

And then once summer was over, I was like, okay, I'm moving back to Missouri because we still haven't heard from this judge, which was so weird.

Weird.

So this judge that you're waiting to hear on, this is a local judge?

Yes.

In your town.

He technically was from Carter county, so it's a neighboring county, but he used to actively work as a West Plains judge.

So he was the judge over our case.

Okay, so him and your father in law clearly probably know each other.

I have no idea.

Okay.

All right, I'm gonna make that assumption, which I shouldn't, but.

Okay.

So you moved to Utah thinking this judge was going to be able to mediate or make a decision.

It's.

It's not hard.

Yeah.

But he dread the judge drags us out, you end up having to split summer with him.

So now you've been away visiting your kids, separated from your kids for a few months now.

Yes.

So you're going back and forth from Utah to Missouri.

Now your ex is offering to pay for your travel if the kids can.

He gets kids half the summer.

You get to have the summer.

You think that's great.

You move through you that the summer comes and goes.

Now you're moving back to Missouri to be back with your kids.

Yes.

Excuse me.

Because the judge still hasn't made a judgment.

A judgment decision yet.

And now it's been months.

Yes.

What was you said?

Is Robert Richard or sorry.

Richard.

Richard.

So Richard, now your ex, what was his response?

When.

Now that you're moving back.

So I let him know, hey, I'm moving back.

And he was like, well, the judge is going to give us a decision any minute.

Like he's going to give us a verdict any minute.

Like stay.

Is that what he's trying to convince you to do?

Yeah.

And then I was like, okay, well in a few weeks I'll be moving.

And then I actually had a phone call with my like quote unquote new attorney because my previous attorney was promoted to being coming a judge.

Okay.

While we were waiting for this, this judge to give us a verdict.

All right.

I spoke with my new attorney to try and be like, hey, like I'm moving back, like all this stuff.

And.

And he was, whatever, it's not that important.

But I moved back.

And Richard's response was.

Was definitely not for it.

He did not want me to move back.

Okay.

He was trying to say the judge is going to give us a verdict, stay in Utah, blah, blah, blah.

But I was done living away from my kids.

How long were you away from.

What was the period that you were away from your kids from when you moved from Missouri back to Utah, then back to Missouri.

What was that time frame?

Yeah.

So trial was January 17th of 2023.

I moved.

I think it was like, January 30th.

Okay.

To Utah.

January 30th.

Okay.

And then I officially moved back to Missouri in August of that same year.

Okay, so six months.

You were going back and forth.

Roughly six months back and forth, seeing your kids every few weeks.

FaceTime and every night.

And he.

He traveled.

He actually paid for the kids to come to Utah over the summer.

So the kids were with me over the summer.

Okay.

Half summer and then.

Yeah.

Okay, so six months, you're away from your kids, and you say, screw this.

I'm getting back to my kids.

You move back to his town?

No, I moved to Springfield.

Okay, so you go to Springfield where you originally wanted to go?

Yes.

So you get a place in Springfield?

Yes.

All right.

Have you heard anything from the judge at this point?

Nothing.

So it's been over six months, and you haven't had anything from the judge?

No.

Is this normal?

No.

Okay, how long does it.

Should your lawyer say they're supposed to have 90 days?

Like that is the cap.

You have 90 days to.

To submit your judgment.

Okay, now we're six months over six months.

Yes.

Are you reaching out to the courts?

Are you trying to get a hold of this judge?

Like, what's the process of going on?

Like, are you.

So both.

Both of our attorneys were submitting motions to have the judge submit his.

His judgment.

Okay.

On multiple occasions.

Okay.

What was the response?

As far as I remember, nothing.

There was no response.

There just was never a judgment.

That's weird.

It's weird.

I don't.

I don't understand.

And sometimes looking back, I'm like.

It's just.

There's so much mind games going on.

Do you remember this judge's name?

Yes.

Stephen Linkswyler.

Judge Stephen Links.

Wiler.

Yes.

Okay.

And he's actually now suspended for a year by Supreme Court for malpractice.

He was suspended.

Oh, my God.

Okay, this.

Okay, now, Now.

Okay.

Yes.

Make that make sense.

Yes.

And his suspension happened.

We got judgment September.

We.

We had another trial in August, and his judgment was submitted September 22nd of this last year, and then he was suspended October 31st.

So this judge that you.

That never cut you any slack ever, has now been suspended for malpractice.

Yes.

Interesting.

Okay, I want to get to that.

So now you're back in Springfield, Missouri.

Yep.

You got your own place.

Yep.

You're closer to your kids.

Yes.

What?

When.

When does this all turn and go bad?

Yeah.

So we were doing our own little custody Arrangement because there was nothing in the courts.

There was no custody arrangement.

And so Richard was super ridiculous and said, I don't want our son to miss any preschool.

It was his first year of preschool.

He doesn't want him to miss any school to spend halftime with me where I could literally homeschool preschool.

Like, so I was only able to see my kids on weekends.

That's all he would agree to.

So I got to see my kids on the weekends.

How does he have all this power?

He doesn't, but I would roll over.

Okay.

So I just would roll over.

I'm not.

It is me at fault.

It absolutely is me at fault.

So you're.

You're agreeing to this?

I don't want to argue, and I want to keep the peace.

Okay.

And I also didn't really believe in my authority, my own authority as the mom.

Okay.

To just demand, no, I'm picking up my kids at this time, and they're going to be with me at this time to this time.

Okay?

So that was that.

And it was into December.

So that was the arrangement from August until December.

And then it was December 9th or 8th.

It might have been the 8th.

I get the dates mixed up, but I pick up my children on a Friday evening at the same normal place.

We.

We meet halfway, and we get home to my apartment, and that's when my son gave his first ever disclosure.

How.

Okay, how did you get your son?

You bring him home?

How is their demeanor?

How's their body language?

Does everything seem normal to you?

Yeah, they both seem totally fine.

We had a new kitten, so they were.

We were just playing with the kitten, and.

And it was Christmas time, so we had our little Christmas decorations.

It was just like, normal, excited to be home with mom.

And it was while we were getting ready for bed, and he's changing into his pajamas, and that's the trigger that triggered his thought.

Okay.

What was said prior to this was he just.

Was it just normal?

Every day, everything was normal.

We were getting ready for bed, and he just.

I think it might have actually been triggered because I got a few new clothes for them.

Richard wouldn't supply me any clothes that he packed for the kids he wanted back home.

Okay.

So I. I went out and bought clothes, and.

And I would thrift stuff a lot.

I love to thrift.

Okay.

One of the things I found was, like, these really nice long johns.

And I was like, okay, great.

These will be good pajamas.

And he was so fascinated with them.

Your son?

My son.

Okay.

And he.

I think that might have Triggered.

He was on top of the bed getting changed into his jammies.

And yeah, I think something along those lines probably triggered the thought of what.

What was said or how did this come out?

What did your son say?

He said, we dance naked with daddy, but we can't tell you or else daddy's gonna hit you in the face with a pan so hard that your face is going to bleed for a week and he'll kick you so hard in your butt that you won't be able to walk anymore.

And he was 5 years old at the time and he's a very tender hearted, not like easily afraid little boy.

Okay.

He would never.

Most, most children, I don't think any normal, healthy child would think of one of their parents in that kind of a way.

Now, has your ex ever put hands on you before?

No.

Okay, so it's not like he's seen this.

It's not like he's witnessed anything along these lines?

No.

I feel like that's pretty graphic for a five year old just to come up with.

Like that had to have been shown or explicitly.

Like your face is going to bleed for a week.

Like, he's five years old.

I don't think he even knows what a week is valid.

Okay, so he says this to you.

What is your response?

Like, what are you.

That was a huge red flag for me.

That was so out of pocket for him.

I was like, oh my gosh.

So I remained calm, but in my mind I'm like, red alarms.

Like, yeah, yeah, worst case scenario.

I already had seen those messages.

Clearly this dude has a pretty dark.

Got an issue.

And, and now my kids are not safe.

They're.

They're dancing naked with their dad and their dad is telling them threats.

If they tell mom, these are the threats.

So I grabbed my phone and I hit record and like set my phone on the dresser.

And I'm trying to like be normal and like keep having like regular conversations.

And then I.

In the, in the video, you can hear it too.

And I say, so what was it that dad told you not to tell me so that I won't tell him, basically.

And then he repeated it all on video.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then later that night he had to go potty.

And, and I've never, my son has never been constipated with me in all the time that I've, I've been with him.

He's never been constipated.

Okay.

And he was severely, severely constipated.

And when he finally passed a stool, it was just this Big ball with blood in it.

And he was holding his lower back because his back hurt.

He said, my back hurts.

And he tried to stand up from the toilet, and he couldn't.

And he fell back onto the toilet, and I had to carry him to bed.

And as soon as my kids were asleep, I immediately called my mom, and I was like, mom, something really bad has happened, and I'm gonna take my kids to the ER to be checked.

What's going through your mind at this point?

My son has been raped.

The whole time he's on this.

The toilet, too.

He's, like, trying to smile, and he's in pain and he's holding his back.

I remember when I was a little girl, and if I was constipated, it was terrifying for me.

I would scream, cry anytime I had.

I was constipated.

And he just was trying to smile.

Like he was trying to give.

Give off that.

That everything was fine.

This might be an ignorant question on my behalf, but is that, like, a sign of rape?

Is constipation for children?

I just.

I don't know.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay.

So is your.

Oh, my God.

I couldn't even imagine being in your shoes right now.

So this all goes down.

Do you.

Are you initially thinking rape?

Are you thinking that your ex is your children at this point?

Like, what.

What.

Did your mind immediately go to that, or are you trying to, like, just figure out what's wrong with your son?

Like, with what he had said earlier and with the content I have seen and knowing he's never been constipated before and the.

The demeanor he had.

Like, normally when my child is in pain, he is crying.

Okay.

He is expressing.

He's in pain.

And you're watching him put, like, this fake smile, like, try to act or.

Yes.

And he's holding his back in pain, and he says, my back hurts.

And then he.

He can't even stand up.

And he won't cry to me because he's hurting.

Like, a normal.

A normal situation for my son when he's in pain is he will cry to me, and he will express that emotion with the pain.

So I knew all of the information that I had.

I felt it in my bones.

My son was either raped or something was put up inside of him.

Okay, so you now know you need to go to the hospital.

Yes.

How long did you wait to go to the hospital?

I went the next morning.

Okay, you went straight the next morning.

All right, good.

Okay.

I didn't bathe my kids.

I. I just.

I was like, we're gonna go get checked, they're gonna do all the tests, they're gonna take all the fluids and all the things, and.

And we're gonna be safe, and nothing is ever gonna happen ever again.

Okay.

That was in my mind.

That's what I figured.

So you get to the hospital, Are you worried and concerned about your daughter at this point?

So he's 5, she's 3ish at this point.

Yeah, she was 3.

Okay.

And I was.

I was concerned about her as well, because when my son mentioned the dancing, he said it collectively like, we.

Okay.

But I. I wasn't aware of if or any of that happened to her explicitly until while we were at the er she had to go potty.

And so when I took her to the bathroom, she started scream, crying and shaking, refusing like, I don't want to go poop.

I don't want to go poop.

And that's never happened before.

Okay, so now you have.

Both of your children are having problems using the restroom, going number two, which is a huge sign.

Yes.

Something has been.

Something's happened.

Been put inside of them.

Okay.

Yes.

So now that raises a huge red flag for you.

Yes.

Are you in.

You're at the hospital, so you're like, holy.

Are you bringing this up to the nurses?

Like, are they.

Are you in?

Are they saying anything?

Like, what's the conversation going about?

Or is it.

Or when you go at that level to a hospital, is it like a protocol?

I.

What's this?

What happens when you take your children to the hospital?

So I recommend.

Don't assume these people have any idea what they're doing.

Okay.

Just assume.

Just assume they're not going to be thorough.

Just assume they're not going to ask you questions.

Because I went in there assuming they had this perfect protocol.

I went in assuming they would ask me what they needed to know.

I was in complete shock.

I am living my worst nightmare finding out what's happened to my kids.

I can't function, like, rightfully so.

I couldn't think straight.

I was trying to just be calm so that my kids couldn't sense that I was so out of whack.

Okay?

So looking back, the things I did wrong, I did not explicitly specify, hey, my daughter was just scream.

Crying in front of your nurse's desk right there that I'm sure they all could hear.

I didn't specify that whole experience of what happened.

I didn't specify that their privates were swollen and itchy like they were constantly itching.

I didn't specify.

I Don't even remember if I specified all of the events that happened the night before.

I know I specified the toilet situation, but honestly, I just went in saying my children have been sexually abused and I need them to get all the tests and be like the rape check or whatever.

Okay.

And I just assumed they had a protocol for it.

I feel like I would think the same thing.

And I didn't.

I didn't really offer up any information other than that.

I just assumed, okay, they have a protocol.

They're going to ask me what they need to know.

I'm just going to try and not lose my mind and stay calm for my kids.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm tracking on that.

I feel like, I mean, even if you did tell them everything, they're not law enforcement.

It's not like they're documenting this.

Yeah.

Even if you told them all the details in the world, I feel that shouldn't change how they test and go through and document a rape kit or whatever the, the test is.

That.

That shouldn't change anything in my, in my opinion.

Yeah.

That's.

I don't know truly how it goes.

Yeah.

I feel like if you're like, hey, my child has been assaulted in any way, it should be from top to bottom, all the same.

Yeah.

How long?

So now you take your kids to the hospital because you're pretty sure that your.

Their father is molesting them.

Take them to the hospital.

How long till you go to the cops?

So while we were in the hospital, they had an officer come and take.

File a report.

Okay.

I don't know if he ever actually submitted that file or not, to be honest, because what I was directed was that that law enforcement was going to contact the Children's Advocacy center where they would schedule an appointment for my children to be seen.

And I was told that hospital people don't do a whole lot of testing with minor children.

They have these special facilities.

The Children's Advocacy center was their special facility that does all the thorough medical examinations and forensic interviews.

Okay.

So all that the ER doctor did was like a super duper quick.

Just.

Just checking bruises, marks.

Yeah.

Super quick.

They swab anything?

No swabs.

Nothing?

Nothing.

It was just so quick.

They barely.

He barely took their pants off.

Looked front and back really quick and then put his.

Their pants back on.

It was just super quick.

Not really much of anything.

Not very thorough.

No.

Okay, so now you're told to go to the Children's Advocacy center, whatever it may.

Okay, so how you leave the hospital?

Go straight there or what so it was a Saturday.

Okay.

So apparently the advocacy center is only open Monday to Friday, which is so shady.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so the doctor said that law enforcement submitted your appointment.

So you just go to the Advocacy Center 8am soon as they open on Monday, unless you get a call and they're able to see them sooner, which that never happened.

Okay.

So we go home and.

No, we did not go home.

We went to my boyfriend at the time's house.

Okay.

He had a.

An extra bedroom where his daughter stayed, and he got them a bunk bed, and we just stayed there in hiding.

Okay.

Because I didn't want Richard to show up at the apartment or anything.

And the next day.

So it was Saturday.

The next day, my daughter was.

It was the same interaction.

She had to go poop and she scream, cried.

She did not want to.

And I got my phone and hit record and set my phone on the sink and was just asking her, why don't you want to go poop?

Why don't you want to go poop?

And then she said, dad, put something in my bum, like bawling.

Okay, so now your daughter's now confessing to something being put inside of her by her dad?

Yes.

Oh, I couldn't even imagine what is going through your mind at this point.

And I forgot.

The day before, while we were walking into the emergency room, my son randomly also disclosed.

He said, daddy and Opa put medicine in our bum, and it's really inappropriate and a secret.

Put medicine in there?

Yeah.

In their bums.

That it's really inappropriate and a secret.

Or you think it.

I didn't know what he meant at the time, but fast forwarding.

About a year later, we had a supervised visit, and he brought up medicine in the context that a mommy and a daddy have a baby.

By the daddy putting his medicine into the mommy.

Oh, my God.

Okay, so.

And my daughter.

You gotta deal with this.

My daughter on different occasions mentioned medicine as well, saying that daddy put medicine in her hair.

Which, if you look into sra.

Weird, weird, dark, evil stuff.

That is a common theme.

All right.

And it tracks.

It tracks.

If you don't.

It's not fun.

It's not a fun rabbit hole to look into.

But there's a book called Paper Dolls, and it's little girls who were abused.

And I haven't read the book, but I know that the little girls describe it as they were being peed on.

It's.

It's a common thing with.

With pedophiles on kids in their hair.

Yeah, it's like A marking.

Yep.

Evil.

Evil.

Evil, Evil.

Evil.

Throw up.

Gross.

So now that you, both of your kids have admitted to their dad and you said their grandpa as well.

Yes.

Have put medicine in them and in their hair.

Well, the hair comment was later on.

Yeah.

Yeah, later on.

But yeah.

Okay.

My mind is going in so many different places right now.

Do you want me to keep playing the.

The chronological.

I mean, you can go wherever you want to go with this.

I'm just trying to figure out.

I'm just putting pieces together.

So now that you have.

Okay.

So yeah, I guess we'll just stay straight on.

On track if, I mean, bring up anything you need to bring up throughout this.

So it's Monday.

You take your kids to the children's advocacy center now.

Yes.

Okay, really quick with my daughter's disclosure.

While she was going potty, she was incredibly emotional.

One thing she offered up completely on her own.

Well, she offered up the dad, put something in her bum.

And then I asked immediately, did anyone else?

So my son the day before mentioned his opa and daddy doing something very inappropriate.

And it's a secret.

So I asked.

And at the time they were living at his parents house.

Even though we owned a house.

He.

He moved in with his parents.

So they're living at their oma and Opa's house.

My son already has disclosed that opa and his dad both did something inappropriate, put it up their bums.

And it's a secret.

So I asked her, after she says, dad put something in her bum, I asked, did Omar opa.

No, before I asked, did Oman Opa?

I asked, did anybody else?

And she's bawling and she says, yeah.

And I was like, who?

And she said, strangers.

And then she's like, they put me in a jail.

And I have the recording.

And you can't make up her emotion.

You can't.

You know, It's disgusting and horrific and I don't know how to function.

I don't know how to function knowing what I know and knowing that I can't protect my kids.

So all this is coming out.

Oh my God.

I couldn't even imagine being in your shoes and finding all of this out.

And if you need to clip any of that out, you can.

No, we're.

No, this is all fine.

So when you get to the kids center.

Yep.

What's the process there?

Is this more in depth?

Is this better than the hospital or.

The same.

Yeah.

So I get there and there was no appointment scheduled for us.

The cop never submitted your.

No.

What a no.

Yeah.

That's why I think there was no file or report.

They had no idea that you got.

Yeah, I show up.

I'm.

I'm trying to stay composed.

And they're like, we didn't get an appointment notification.

And the only way that you can have an appointment with this children's Advocacy center is through DSS or law enforcement submitting.

What sense does that make?

I don't know.

So they were like, okay, go to the Family Justice Center a few blocks away and make your report there.

And then after you're done with your report, then the investigator will schedule an appointment for your kids to be seen here.

So that's what I did.

How long did that take?

It was a few hours of.

Of being at the justice center, the Family justice center, giving my whole report to the investigator.

And then I had to fill out all these restraining orders because she was like, I want you to file a restraining order against everyone that was mentioned in the abuse.

Okay.

So Oma and their dad.

Okay.

Because they were all mentioned whether through coaching.

Oma was.

Was mentioned on multiple occasions as a coaching or being present.

And then oppa and daddy, whatever.

So that all took a while.

And then the investigator went with us.

She.

She met us at this.

The Springfield Advocacy Center.

And that's when my kids had their medical exams, which were super thorough.

And they take photographs of any bruise, any bump, their privates, everything.

But now it's been since Friday.

It's now Monday.

Okay.

So, yeah, mid Monday.

And I did.

I. I gave my kids baths because they were so inflamed and irritated.

Their privates were.

So I was like, we're gonna take a bath.

That sucks, but we're gonna take a bath.

So that happened Sunday.

I bathed them both.

Your children's privates were inflamed?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So they.

They did the medical exams and photographed everything.

And while they were doing the exams, they would ask the children, okay, where did you get this scratch?

Where did you get this bruise?

Every single.

Every single time my daughter was asked, her continued response.

Running at the park.

Running at the park.

Running at the park.

Every time.

Every time she was asked, how did this happen?

She would.

Every time she said, running at the park.

And she was three years old.

She definitely was coached.

And then my son, he had a.

A false response every time.

And it was something at school.

So we have this new kitten.

He has a scratch on his arm from this kitten.

And then the nurse practitioner is asking, how did you get this scratch?

And he said, one of the kids at my in my class brought a cat, and it scratched me at school, like, every single time.

It was ingrained in his brain.

Anything that happened, happened at school.

Interesting.

And you're watching your kids say this?

Yeah, I'm in the room with them while they're.

And you probably can't say anything, huh?

No.

And.

And they did each one separately, but yeah.

So this all.

How hard was that?

Having to live through that again with your kids, Were they very open with it?

Did they tell you the same things, or did their story change?

What.

What went on there?

Well, the forensic interviews, I was not allowed.

Okay.

I was not allowed in the forensic interviews.

They have their own little separate room that they go in and it's recorded and everything.

And they.

I. I didn't actually get to actually watch the interviews.

Probably like a year later, I finally got to watch them.

Did you watch them all the way?

Yes.

How was it painful?

Did they disclose anything in there, that it was dad or grandpa?

My.

Both of them mentioned that their dad hurt them in some way.

My son specifically mentions that his dad put his hand in his bum and that it hurt and that it was to be mean.

And my daughter said her dad broke her legs.

And she.

She kept mentioning her baby brother that's dead.

Yeah.

If.

If you, if you research satanic ritual abuse and if that's really what my kids have been through, they do human sacrifice in front of these children.

Okay.

They do all kinds of really horrific stuff so that the children's brains shut off for sure.

They don't remember.

So her continuing to mention this baby brother that's dead, all I can assume is, like, was it a threat?

Was she threatened?

Did she watch an actual baby die?

She's three.

At this age, she's three years old.

Like, where's the three year old getting this?

I. I don't know.

I have no idea.

But all I can.

She related her baby brother to the trauma, to that her dad hurt her like that.

That was a mental relation that she shared.

When she's being asked all these questions and talking about how her dad does all of these things.

Okay, so the report gets taken.

How long did you have your kids before you had to give them back to him?

Well, after the.

The initial Children Advocacy center appointment, the DSS investigator immediately had a safety intervention put in place.

Okay.

So she said, be in zero contact with their dad.

Stay away from your apartment.

Do not go to work.

Stay with your children 247 in case Richard shows up.

If you have your children with you, the police can't Take them.

Got.

So I was with my kids 247 waiting on these restraining orders, and we had a hearing for the restraining orders against Richard's mom and dad.

And that hearing, their attorney requested that the judge change the venue to West Plains.

And I. I didn't have an attorney, but I remember asking the judge, please, please don't transfer this case to their town.

I.

They are very well known, financially involved in that community, and I have concern of conflict of interest.

But the judge changed the venue.

Oh, my God.

So they just put it in their lap.

Yeah.

So this.

Why the.

Would the judge do that?

Welcome to America.

So now all this comes out.

They clearly know what's going on at this point.

Yes.

Because you have a restraining order.

You have everything put in place to protect you.

Well, the restraining orders weren't granted.

They were denied, but had hearings.

Okay, so.

So the restraining orders aren't in place.

The judge in Springfield is now, for some reason, passing this off to the judge that's in this community.

Yes.

With this Mormon leader that is the grandfather of the children that these kids just said molested them.

And he's connected to the judge in town.

Likely.

And everybody else around.

Likely.

Yeah.

What sense does that make?

It sounds like the way that the system works to me.

Sure.

Yeah.

Like this seems like a.

Huge.

Like this.

They're setting this up like.

Yeah.

Okay.

So now that the cat's out of the bag.

Yeah.

Word has clearly gotten around that your children have come forward with their father touching them and doing things to them along with their grandpa.

Nobody's thinking that this guy.

That his.

His own children are confessing to him, diddling them, and this guy's dealing with giant minors and parents are just sending their kids to this little rehab center.

And this guy that your ex is running and this dude is into this dark.

What's the name of this facility?

Ozark Trails Youth Academy.

In Missouri or Youth Services?

Yeah, in Missouri.

Ozark Trails Academy.

And this dude's in some dark up.

Yeah.

And he works with children.

Yep.

That just makes sense.

That makes sense to me.

Like, that's.

That those are the dudes that are into this, that are running these things.

Yep.

Yeah.

Don't send your kids to a facility probably ever.

Probably never do that.

Don't abandon your child.

Drop them off and say you take care of them.

This is.

This is mind boggling to me.

Okay.

Where are we?

Yeah, so we had our hearings.

Richard still never got served his restraining order.

I. I request to meet with the investigator over our.

The state investigator who's been handling everything.

Who put the safety intervention in place and everything through this whole process.

I feel like she was the one person that did her job to protect.

Protect my kids.

Linda stained back.

Okay.

So I'm.

I'm.

I'm with her.

My dad flew in to.

To accompany me for that hearing so that I wouldn't have to be alone.

So we're.

We're talking to her, and my dad brings up, like, what if she just comes to Utah while we wait for all of this?

Because she's not.

She doesn't have a restraining order.

Like, they're still not safe.

She can't go to work.

We were literally in hiding.

Like, I wouldn't even feel safe going out to the park or publicly.

Like, I was very.

I was.

I was in shock.

I was processing a lot.

And also I was just worried, like, what if they just send someone up here to just take the kids?

For sure.

Like, I was scared.

Okay.

So basically, because there's no custody order, technically, it was okay.

That.

I mean, there's.

There's argument there now that I know there's a gray area because we were waiting on a court order.

But it was my understanding, because there's no custody arrangement, it's okay for me to seek refuge in Utah.

Okay.

So that's what I did.

I. I moved me and the kids to Utah, and we stayed with my parents.

And for how long?

We were ordered to move back in.

I feel like it was May.

May or June.

Okay.

So we.

We were.

We were in Utah just barely under six months.

Okay.

While we were in Utah, we had our whole routine.

We were doing all the things, like, I got us on insurance and got us into trauma therapy.

One thing that the investigator pushed really hard after my kids forensic interviews was that I need to get my kids into trauma therapy as soon as possible.

So we did trauma therapy and we did group therapy.

That was play therapy for them.

And then I. I was taking.

While they did their group play therapy, I took a course on, like, it was for parents to learn how to do play therapy sessions with your children.

Okay.

Basically, so we were doing all these things to, like, work on healing and.

And just being safe and secure and getting our routine and everything.

And usually it was at night, but there were other times.

Like, going to the bathroom, too, was another time that would trigger.

And the kids would start telling disclosures of things.

Okay.

So this.

Okay, that was my next question.

While you're back in Utah, you guys are safe.

Yes.

Away from any threat at the moment that you're really concerned about.

Are your kids saying things?

Are they.

Is there triggers?

Are there outbursts?

Do you see a change that would solidify or at least make you think more?

Okay, this truly had.

Because I'm not saying this didn't happen.

Yeah.

But obviously kids can see something, hear something.

Obviously, if they're around your ex that is a perverted, dark human being, he's could be saying things and they could be picking up on them.

So where my mind goes with this, was this a one and done deal that your children came up with these accusations that their dad and their grandpa are putting things in their bums and putting medicine in their hair and in them?

Was that it?

Or when you took them to a safe place and things calm down, you get in a routine.

Was there anything else?

Yeah, they.

They continued disclosing.

And another thing, another thing just to note was that my daughter had irritation.

And it didn't go away, like, in her private.

Like, okay, it would bother her.

She would fidget.

And so two months later, it's February.

I took her to the urgent care to be tested for an std.

Because I was like, okay, she's got some sort of irritation going on.

That's not healing.

They sent me to the Provo Children's Justice Center.

Okay.

To be examined.

Okay.

So we go there and she's examined.

They do like a swab and everything, and they take a photograph.

The reason about the photograph is, is that photograph is so vital to compare to the photograph taken two months prior.

Because there is a difference.

There is absolutely a difference.

I recognized it as the mom when I would take her potty.

Like, it was not normal, healthy size for her age in December.

By February, it's back to its normal size.

Everything's normal.

But she still has irritation.

I hate that I even have to ask this question, but.

So you are able to compare.

I can't.

I can't access them.

I can't access these photographs.

Where are the photographs, Provost?

Children's justice center has theirs.

And then the Children's Advocacy center in Springfield has theirs.

And I have told every law enforcement over the case, the prosecuting attorney over the case.

I have informed anyone that has any type of authority to investigate.

These photographs exist.

Get a hold of them and get my kid safe and arrest that man.

So as a mom, you were able to clearly see a difference in healing process of your daughter's privates.

Yes.

And I know those photographs exist, and I know if you compared them, the size would be very different.

But to answer your question about Disclosures.

That was a thing.

Bedtime and bathroom triggered something.

Triggered.

That was usually when they would say stuff.

Sometimes car rides.

Okay.

Like, I remember we were driving to the dentist for my son, and he randomly went on this whole tangent about the entire synopsis of that movie.

Screaming.

He just starts telling me everything that happens in that movie.

My daughter was like, yeah, I was crying the whole time.

It was scary.

And you're.

And their dad made them watch it.

They made.

Yeah.

And my son said he wasn't scared.

So randomly, my kids would tell me things like, oh, we watched this music video.

One music video.

Lil Nas X.

My son had this weird obsession with Lil Nas X's music.

And as a five year old.

Yeah.

Okay.

And that's a red flag.

Yes.

Well, what's interesting, we're gonna backtrack really quick because we're on the subject.

Before any of these disclosures happened, I was picking up my kids one evening from school to spend.

Just.

Just to spend the evening with them because I had work in the morning.

As I'm picking them up, my son asks, can you play that song call me when you want by?

And he.

I don't think he said Lil Nas X, but he said the song.

And so I look it up and on my screen are all these men in prison dancing naked.

Look back at my son so confused, and he starts bawling, like crying out of nowhere.

And I was like, so confused.

And I was like, how do you know about this song?

And he says, my friend at school showed me on an iPad, just like crying.

And I, I texted Richard and I screenshot the music video and I was like, our son just asked to play this song.

And he says someone from school showed him, like, this is another example of why I want to homeschool our kids.

We are in way more control of what they're exposed to.

He never texted back.

He never responded.

But that was the first time my son brought up those.

That music from that artist.

And then that was another thing he would bring up.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So they were not only physically abused, they were exposed to things way beyond age appropriate.

For sure.

Yeah, for sure.

So clearly there's things that trigger, like we talked about, even though it's been.

They've been away from their dad for six months, they're still bringing things up.

Yes.

Are you asking questions?

Are you trying to word them a certain way or are they just randomly, just in certain moments and things would trigger them and they would just blurt something out?

No.

So I, I have.

I would keep a Log.

Anytime my kids would disclose something.

So everything that they said or their behaviors that were concerning, later in the day, I would go and write it down.

Okay.

There were a few times though, where like one specifically that I still regret and I will admit to is my son is doing something inappropriate.

I don't remember if it was dancing inappropriate or saying something inappropriate, something that crossed the line.

And I, I offered up and I said, I know you learned this stuff from your dad because that was something that they had told me.

I was like, I know this is something that you learn from your dad, but it's not okay and we don't do it.

So I offered up.

This is something that you learn from your dad that we don't do.

But it wasn't something I put into their brain.

It was something they told me about.

Yep.

And so that's.

That little clip was something they used really hard on me at trial.

They had access to my logs because I submitted it to the review board, who back when Richard had preponderance of evidence against him.

He appealed it.

I submitted as a witness everything that I felt like they should review.

And so I submitted that list of all of my log notes.

Richard's attorney got a hold of that list of log notes and he took that little tidbit and was like, see, you offered this information.

You coached your children about abuse.

You're crazy.

You're evil.

You're creating this false narrative in your children.

From that one, from that one little.

Clip, that one little statement of.

Of all of these days and days and days and days of notes of my children's behaviors.

Okay, so let's get to the court then.

So this all.

You're in Utah six months, you get ordered back.

Yes.

Did you go back to Springfield or you go back to the town?

We stayed in Springfield.

Okay, so you're in Springfield now.

The judge in Springfield moves the court to.

What's the name of this town?

West Plains.

West Plains, Missouri.

Well, everything was happening in West Plains.

Basically, yeah.

Those restraining orders were moved to West Plains.

So everything's now moved from where you.

You're staying and think that you're safe in Springfield.

And the judge now moves it to Spring or to West Plains, Missouri, where now you.

This dude that you're accusing of molesting your children, he lives.

His dad is a higher ranking member of the Mormon Church that's connected in the town.

He's a surgeon, eye surgeon.

Knows the judge that you've been introduced to.

At least one of the judges confirmed.

He knows one of the judges.

One of the judges, which, if you're in these small towns, we all know how this goes.

Like.

Yeah.

How does this go down?

So now you're.

Now you're the outsider.

Yes.

Coming into this town with this perfect little Mormon LDS family that's raised 10 kids and they're all probably stellar members of the community.

Yeah, they're all your.

They're.

Oh, they're all doctors.

Okay.

Shocker.

So are they all in doctors in this town?

Are they all around?

No.

Most of them live in Missouri, though.

Okay, so now you're fighting.

Now this is David versus Goliath.

Yeah.

So now you're in the town that.

With the.

This.

What are they called?

A.

A stake President of the church.

Yes.

Runs this community.

Is this a heavily Mormon community?

It has more members than other surrounding towns.

Okay, but it's not like a Utah Mormon community.

No.

Okay, so this guy that is a surgeon, he's a business owner.

His son is now this counselor from a rehab center for children.

And here you are accusing their precious little son of molesting your children in their town that they have deep roots and ties to.

Yep.

Okay, how does this go over?

Really poorly.

It's not over.

It's still going.

Okay.

One thing I do want to note because it's pretty big, is that while we were in Utah, end of February, it was bedtime.

My son starts talking about in detail what happened.

And he.

He goes in detail.

He.

He specific.

He specifically talks about being raped by his father.

And I grab my phone, hit record, and I said, can you say again really quick what you just told me?

Okay.

He repeats it.

I send that video to the corporal over the investigation who was in West Plains.

He's been over this investigation this whole time.

And I sent it to the DSS investigator who's been over the case.

The corporal hurries and gets forensic interviews scheduled out of Provo justice center, the children's Provo Justice Center.

We are scheduled to have follow up forensic interviews.

Both my children have forensic interviews.

I to this day have not viewed those, cannot access them.

But.

But I do have the Missouri DSS report.

And in the Missouri DSS report, it states multiple statements from those Provo forensic interviews.

Okay.

Both of my children in their forensic interviews in Provo disclose sodomy.

Okay.

I think it was maybe a day or two later, the dss, Missouri DSS comes out.

They.

Their investigation is over.

They've come out with a preponderance of evidence against Richard.

Cut clean and dry.

It is way more likely not Way more.

It is more likely than not that Richard Jones has sexually assaulted his children.

This is coming from the state.

From Missouri.

Okay.

The state of Missouri.

So the state of Missouri tells you, comes out, hey, we have enough evidence from your children's statements and everything else.

Everything else.

Medical photographs.

Medical photographs.

Testing.

Yep.

The.

What do they call the examinations?

The frenzy examinations and everything else.

So they, they gathered all of this going on.

You've been living in this hell for.

Yes.

A year now.

Close to.

I feel like if my time's right.

So you're like, oh, thank God.

Okay, we have him.

Yes.

He's.

He.

This dude's going down.

Yes.

For molesting your children.

Yes.

What the happened?

Also, we did get approved of a temporary restraining order in Utah, but when we had our hearing for it to become permanent, Richard's attorney managed to get the judge to transfer it to West Plains.

It's not in your jurisdiction.

Even though they're living here.

It's not in your jurisdiction.

Judge from Utah.

Just send it back to where it's all happening or where it supposedly happened.

What's that judge's name?

Do you know?

Oh, I don't.

Utah judge, I think she was a female.

She Mormon, do you know?

I have no idea.

I would have to.

Look, I keep asking for people listening.

I keep asking about the Mormon connections because I feel there's some really deep rooted things that go on that's dark in the Mormon Church.

And this is just my opinion.

And I don't care if you like it or not.

This is how I feel.

Yes.

I feel that the Mormon Church, along with all the other churches, not just Mormons, but especially Mormons.

Yes.

Cover everything up and they will do whatever it takes.

They will spend whatever money they have to.

To be able to bury things.

Yes.

This is where things.

Your story does not make sense to me at all.

Except if they're.

The only thing that processing what's going on inside of your story is that there are somehow connections through the Mormon community.

And the funding.

And the funding.

How they keep things quiet.

Okay.

So now that you have enough evidence to put this Mormon stake president's son away from molesting his own children.

Sodomizing his children.

Yes.

Where does this go wrong?

If you have all the evidence, everything's laid out like the state saying that they have.

Yeah.

Where does this.

Where does it go wrong?

And I got another question after that.

Okay, so go where.

So where it goes wrong is a lengthy response.

Okay.

But long story short, the preponderance of evidence Comes out.

Okay?

Richard appeals the preponderance of evidence by the state.

Okay.

He has what is called an appellate hearing before the Child Abuse and Neglect Review Board.

That board has their whole hearing, and they uphold the evidence.

They uphold the evidence against Richard.

They say that this evidence is now final and that his name is placed on the registry.

It is more likely than not that Richard has sexually abused his children.

We are placing his name on the registry.

It's final.

Okay, then deny what he wanted?

Yes.

Okay.

And then Richard has what's called a de novo hearing.

And the de novo hearing happens in West Plains.

Okay?

In this hearing, I was not present because I'm not involved directly, but I have received.

I was.

I was provided all of the records from it.

So in the Dan, overhearing the dss, the attorney, the state attorney is saying, this evidence is.

Is legit.

Like, look at this evidence.

This man is a threat to children.

He should not be allowed to be anywhere near the students at his facility.

Because Richard's hearing was arguing that because his name is on the registry, he can't go to work.

Yeah, that would be arguing.

That makes sense.

That makes sense to me.

That if a dude that is molesting his own children, that owns a facility for abused children should not be allowed around those children.

Yes, as a job, you should be fired or removed immediately.

Even if it's more likely than not.

Even if that's the basis.

Even if there is a basis.

Because there's the state investigation and then there's law enforcement investigation.

Okay?

Law enforcement has been claiming.

And the prosecuting attorney from West Plains, who I met with once, and he completely ghosted me ever since.

They claim that they do not have enough evidence to press charges, but the state has enough evidence to have this preponderance of evidence.

And then because he appealed and the review board reviewed everything, they're like, yes, this is.

This is more likely than not.

It's final, and your name's on the registry.

So he has this whole de novo hearing.

The state attorney is like, protect the students.

Protect the kids.

He should not be around them.

Rightfully so.

And then out of nowhere, I don't really understand how it's all connected.

But there's this restraining order signed off by Judge Prevett, who is in West Plains.

He.

He signs off on this restraining order against the state, against the dss.

What does that mean?

Explain that.

I don't really understand.

All I know is there's this restraining order against DSS for.

Because of the preponderance of evidence.

I don't really understand it.

I'm.

Your ex got a restraining order against somehow dss.

Somehow I don't understand.

Judge approved.

The West Plains judge signed off on this.

This is the judge that's already.

That got removed from malpractice.

No, this is a different West Plains judge.

Okay, wait.

If I'm.

So your ex files a restraining order against the state's department that investigates child abuse.

Yes.

And that judge signed off on it?

Signed off on it?

Yes.

I don't.

I'm not an attorney.

I have no idea.

I just have the document.

I just have the signed off document.

It makes no sense.

Then the other document I received was this settlement agreement where the same DSS attorney who is arguing that Richard should not be around his students is now signing off on the settlement agreement saying that the dss.

The Missouri State Department of Social Services, is dismissing the preponderance of evidence against Richard and removing his name from the registry under some settlement agreement.

Which.

Which means there was no trial or evidentiary hearing.

There was this settlement agreement.

They had their de novo hearing.

Okay.

And the state attorney argued his argument.

Then there's this random weird restraining order against the state.

Then there's the settlement agreement.

What background?

Kind of like backdoor deals.

That's all I can assume.

Okay.

Did the church get involved?

Did they threaten to sue the state?

Did you go to the church?

Did you go to the Mormon temple?

Did you go to anybody during this time from the church?

There were a few times.

When I first started the divorce with Richard, I wanted to go to individual therapy.

So I went to the bishop of the ward.

And at the time, Richard's dad is the stake president, which means he's basically the bishop's boss.

And so my little bishop that I went to is reporting and working under Richard's dad.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I.

Excuse me.

I meet with him, and before I even say a word, he's like, I just want you to know I'm not going to take sides.

I don't want you to try and get me to take your side.

Like.

Like putting up this wall of, like, I don't want to hear it.

Because his boss is the dude.

Richard.

Yeah.

The man I'm divorcing.

Yeah.

And I was like, there are no sides.

I'm not trying to have sides.

That's weird.

So that's.

That's a side?

Yeah.

He drew a line.

Yeah.

Clearly there's a side.

Exactly.

You're not on it.

That's not even why I was meeting with him.

Okay.

But, yeah, exactly.

So I, I was like, no, yeah, whatever.

I just want some financial assistance so that I can go to therapy.

And not even a month before.

Maybe a month before, he was paying tons of money.

The bishop was approved to pay tons of money for our group therapy.

But now that I'm single and getting a divorce from Richard and seeking much less expensive, and only once a month, not twice a month, therapy, I come to him and I say, can I have some financial assistance?

His response was, we are not allowed to provide funding for people who are financially capable.

Which I am less financially capable than I was while married to Richard.

I find that hilarious because everything built around that religion is money.

Yes.

Everything from top to bottom is all about a dollar in tithing.

And now that you go and lean on the church, but I'm sure the church had no problem taking any of your tithes.

And when you had to go on your mission and pay for all of that, they have no problem with that.

But now that you need help, they can't help you.

No.

And what's also even more bizarre is the Mormon Church provides free.

Free therapy.

They have free therapy and they wouldn't.

Give it to you?

The bishop never told me, I didn't know.

He just said, I can't help you.

So that was that.

And I never met with him ever again.

And then when I came across all those really horrifying messages and memes and I didn't know what to do, I still relied on, like, I assumed priesthood authority is someone you can, like, someone you can turn to for assistance, even in, like, a comfort, spiritual way.

So I was like, okay, I can't meet with the bishop, but I want to meet with a local priesthood authority.

So I, I was working in the young women's presidency, the youth, the girls youth program in our ward for, like, four years.

And I worked with a wife of an authority in the Stake Presidency.

So he worked in the Stake Presidency.

So he's like a priesthood authority.

And I trusted his wife.

So I was like, I. I'll meet with this man.

Like, I'll see if this man is willing to meet with me.

And so I reach out to him and he's like, yeah, of course we can meet.

And then he.

He, like, explicitly asked if I was okay that he let Rob Richard's dad, know that we were going to meet, but that he wasn't going to tell him anything.

Okay.

And I'm like, why?

Why do you need to.

I don't know.

Maybe it's.

Maybe it's Protocol, but weird because these.

Guys all work for your father in law.

Yeah.

Okay, maybe it's to get approval.

Who knows?

So what did the church say when you brought up the bestiality, the porn of pornographic material, the gay that your ex is setting?

And what did they, what did the, the bishops or leaders say about this?

So it was just that one leader that I met with and I showed him a lot of the messages, a lot of the memes and all his, his response was like, boys will be boys.

Like, when guys get around their friends, they get all riled up and weird and then.

No, no, no, no.

Absolutely not.

No.

And then he's.

He's a father to daughters.

So he starts talking about if this were his daughter coming to him and he's like, I would have concern.

But also, I understand that that was the thing.

Boys will be boys.

And, and the other thing that he really tried to drill into my brain was that I don't want to come across crazy.

Like, I don't want to allege all of this across crazy.

And this is coming from a leader of the church?

Yeah.

Where does a leader fall?

Are they under bishops?

So this leader was working as a support to the stake president.

So he's separate from the bishop.

Is he equal?

But separate.

That's the thing.

They claim that, that we're all equal children of God, but in their like, patriarchal hierarchy of leadership, there's the stake president, there's the stake presidency that works with him, and then there's the stake authorities.

So there's, there's a whole team.

There's so many layers to like the positions of.

In the Mormon Church.

It is my, like if you.

The chosen 70 or whatever.

And like, they're so weird.

There's so much to me that's like, that's that the.

Anyways, we don't even need to get into that.

Well, it all I will say, all I will say is just coming out of it and now having the relationship that I have with God and Jesus, it's like you feel this gap.

Like, here's this one individual and then there's these bishops, and then there's these other people above them, and then above them, above them.

And then there's your prophet.

It's like you feel like in order to get to God, you have to go through.

For sure.

There's no, there's no.

Just direct.

And then they claim that you have your own personal revelation and everything, but you have to go to your bishop for everything.

I was told that at some point and correct me if I'm wrong.

Like when these young men become men in the.

In the LDS Church that they sit and talk to these bishops about masturbation, looking at pornography and all this dark.

And they share all these really just perverted with these guys.

And this is like a comment that's like a phase in the church that they go through where they sit with these men and talk about all this perverted stuff.

Girls too.

I was a.

What was it?

I was 11 when I started having my bishop recommend appointments.

Are you sitting with a male?

Yes.

Are you by yourself?

Yes.

It's either the bishop or someone in his presidency.

You go behind a closed door and you just.

And they ask you very explicit questions about the details and all the things and you tell them and they're trying to decide if you're worthy to enter the temple.

But really it's just this disgusting.

So uncomfortable.

I would get like many panic attacks before I had to go into one of those meetings.

How old were you?

It started when I was 11 every year.

Bro, how are you a.

How are you a.

A man, A father letting your.

I don't give a. I'm gonna go on a tangent right now.

Take the wheel.

How as a man, as a father, I don't care what religion you want to claim and think that it is.

How does anybody justify sending your.

I'm looking.

I'm thinking about my 11 year old daughter that I'm going to let her go.

I don't give a shit if it's the pastor of our church.

If he's like, I'm going to take your daughter into this room by ourselves and we're going to talk about her intimate thoughts in what's going on.

Absolutely the not.

I don't care.

Unless Jesus comes out of the heavens.

Oh, you need to.

No, no.

That is a cult.

Like that's cultish that's going on and they're just like it's sacred, not secret.

Like what the.

Is this how that is?

That is the most common Mormon on the Internet whenever you want to ask a question.

It's sacred, not secret.

I almost wore my shirt that says secrecy is slavery.

Bro.

I don't understand as a dad, like how are you this brainwashed and manipulated and groomed your whole entire.

That's how it is because you're born into this.

So you think it's normal.

Yeah.

But you take any other normal man and ask them, hey, would you ever let your daughter.

Daughter starting at 11 to go into a room and talk with a strange dude, that's part of your church and trusted.

Actually, when you're eight, you start this at eight.

No, no, but you have your interview with the bishop to get baptized, if I remember correctly.

Have an interview to get baptized.

Yeah.

I don't.

Hold on.

Let's get back on track.

Don't get me started on the.

This, this.

Okay.

This.

I get so much.

Dude.

Anyways, okay, the court case is going on.

Let's get to how the hell you lost custody.

Yeah, this is.

Okay, so before, this is the.

That doesn't make sense to me because the church is so deeply rooted in family.

Family, but community.

Looking out for each other and tithing.

And we help everybody else out.

I, I don't buy any of this.

As an outsider looking at the LDS Church, it is the biggest scam.

Like, why am I getting served ads almost every day from attorneys?

If you have been molested inside the LDS community in church, there's a class action lawsuit.

Like, I get these ads every day.

What the is going on where we're having class action lawsuits about a church?

Like not just one church in a community, like all of it.

Yeah, yeah.

And this dude that's running, that's a stake leader.

Yes.

Stake president in the, in the Mormon Church.

His son is now accused.

They have enough evidence of raping his own children, gets everything moved to his own town, and now the pieces start falling apart of this case.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

This is where we're at.

And we went on a little Mormon tangent, but yeah, this just blows my mind.

Like, it doesn't make sense to me.

Anybody trying to explain anything to me about this.

It not.

Doesn't make sense.

All I want to say is if you look at those buildings, those temples and how much money they put into those buildings, why are we not.

When Jesus says, we are the temple, our body is the temple.

Why are we not putting money into the people?

Like, let's invest in.

In schooling and programs to help people have jobs and have welfare and have.

Like, why are we not putting money into that?

Do you really think our creator or Jesus cares about how fancy and beautiful these buildings are when he says our body is the temple?

Like, let's invest in our bodies and our health.

That's what got me.

That's what tipped me.

And, and, and I was like, I think I need to leave this.

But I feel like there's a mass exodus out of the Mormon Church right now.

I feel like it's been going on for a few, a few years.

I think as we grow into the era of knowledge and information.

People are looking up who Joseph Smith.

Really was or the legitimate true history.

There is none.

Yeah, there is none.

They're like, well, maybe this happened.

I'm like, it is so wild to me.

It is so wild that people just blindly, because they were born into it, don't ask questions and see how deep rooted this goes.

Like, it's, it's so bizarre to me.

And it's fascinating, I guess at another thing, it doesn't matter.

But yeah.

Okay, so now that you're.

You got, you're in the, you're in.

We're in full court mode.

Right.

Sorry for everybody listening.

That was, this is, this is, this is just building.

But it is related.

This is going like.

It is related too.

Right?

Okay, so it's not just me.

No, I'll admit I'm looking for reasons just because it's so up.

And like I have people reaching out constantly of talking about stuff that happened to them in the Mormon Church, but they can't ever come forward with it because they'll be excommunicated or ex.

Yeah, excommunicated.

Excommunicated from it.

Their families will turn on them.

Like, I have a friend that he did an episode here about the church and he, we had to pull the whole episode because he was like, dude, I don't air it because when this goes out, my family's gonna, they're gonna turn on me and this is going to be a huge problem.

It's heartbreaking.

That's not a real, That's a cult, not a Jesus.

That's not Jesus at all.

Does that sound like Jesus?

No.

If, if I went to my parents, like, hey, I'm leaving the church, they'd.

Be like, that sucks.

Like, like, okay, well, we're gonna pray for you.

You leave the Mormon Church and they're like, shame, shame.

And they're come to my house.

You're not welcome to us.

You can't talk to us.

You're not, you can't even drive down our street.

Like, I've seen it.

I have buddies that are like, bro, bro.

Like, you leave and it's.

And there are some, there are some members who are way more understanding.

But like, that's been the culture.

Like, that's a new thing.

It's a new thing for people to be understanding and gracious and be like, okay, it's okay if we believe different things.

But like, they're still going to send people to come to your house to try and collect tithing and have you reconvert yeah.

They're not going to miss tithing.

No.

Or fast offerings.

The whole thing is weird.

And, and the reason I'm sharing this is not to bash people in the church.

It is because I love, like, what I share is out of love.

Some of it comes out of rage and some of it comes out of like, I'm super, like, pissed off at how things are going.

But like, the amount of people that are members of that church that I love so deeply don't care.

No, I am worried for their well being.

I am worried for their salvation.

I am worried that they are closing off to truth that they need for sure and a real, true, like, deep rooted relationship with Jesus that you don't need to go to a man to confirm or deny your personal revelation.

You should never idolize anybody or anything.

And that even goes for little Mother Teresa statues and all this other shit that people worship and put on pedestals that if, if you were a believer.

Or pop stars or any of it.

Idols, actors, whatever, influencers, that has been a lesson.

Not even that from a Christian standpoint, you should never put anybody on a pedestal.

You should never idolize anybody.

Because we're man and we're flawed and we're evil.

We make horrible, disgusting mistakes.

Y.

That is why I don't care if you're a bishop, a deacon, a pastor.

They're all flawed.

We're all human.

All human.

We make mistakes and we, our minds have been corrupted no matter what.

That is when people are like, oh, I pray to this person.

No, you.

No, absolutely not.

That is why I have such a problem with religion.

Because religion is created by man.

Church is created by man.

Yes.

Everything that you're doing and dressing up and putting your little tie and your little Mormon clothes on, all because man told you to do that.

That is.

None of that is God.

When did Jesus ever ask someone to dress nice in his presence?

Ever?

It's just bizarre to me.

That's where, that's where I just, I, I look.

It's so hard for me to like, because I get a lot of, from, you know, the Mormons and they're like, I would love and come and educate you.

You don't need to educate me.

That's like me looking at Jeffrey Dahmer and be like, yeah, let me come, Let me come justify how I, why I did what I need to do.

It doesn't make it right.

Just because you've been groomed your whole entire life from birth into this religion of God, God, which you're not even worshiping.

The same God as God.

Yeah, it's.

It's crazy to me that.

How deep and how secretive and it's like if I can't walk into any room in that temple, why, why do.

Why is it an outsider, why can't I walk in and check it out?

Yeah, it's.

Oh, it's sacred, is it?

No, it's weird.

It's so sacred because it was built in 2009.

Yeah, no, it's so weird.

Like you.

If you want to tell me sacred, find me some temple that was built before Jesus walked this earth, that's sacred.

If you got thousands of years of history, that's sacred.

Some dude building it out in eastern Idaho, the new temple, that's not sacred.

Just because you want to flick some holy water or whatever you're going to need to do to bless it, that you need to shun people from it, that you need to be accepted into it.

You need to be.

Get a.

Approved into it.

You need to be voted in to be baptized or whatever else.

That's all man.

It's a hundred percent man.

You are worshiping man's word, not God's word.

God did not create anything.

Any of that that goes on inside of that church was not created by God.

No, that's the devil.

That is some secret, dark, nasty that goes on.

Take the.

The history of what they do in those temples and align it with freemasonry and weird occult crap.

It's not the first time I've heard this.

There are alignments.

There are.

It's just.

Yeah.

And I. I had my moments of rage, but now it's seriously just like.

I just want people who want truth to like be willing to get.

Give up things that they thought were true.

That's the problem.

It's harder to convince somebody of the truth when you have been groomed your whole life of what the truth is.

Yeah.

And so to convince somebody that they've been lied to their whole entire life is so much harder to revert them back to the truth.

It's.

I mean, you look at these kids that are like been kidnapped and they've been living with their.

Their.

Yeah.

Their predator for 15 years.

End up becoming.

Falling in love with them.

And Stocksum syndrome or whatever else is that.

Stocks.

Yeah, Sockham syndrome, Things like that.

Like the human mind is very weak.

It can be very strong, but it's also very easy to manipulate.

And it's like not telling people, like, hey, this doesn't make sense.

Hey, you should not be doing this.

Hey, it shouldn't be built around money.

And if money gets you higher into.

The church and they'll claim it's not money, they'll claim it's not.

It's not money.

But I don't know, man.

There's some weird.

There's some weird stuff that doesn't make sense.

And.

And being in that mentality, you're afraid to ask questions.

You're afraid to fill questions you feel guilty for even questioning.

That's a huge one.

I see a lot of people that leave the church say that they.

They never ask questions because of how bad you'd be judged and how shunned it is to question things inside the church.

Yeah.

You can't ask other members questions that contradict, like, how does this add up?

Like, you can't.

That's not a thing.

That's brainwashing if you can't do that.

Yeah, that's.

That's not God.

Again, that is not God.

If you claim to be a Mormon or a Christian, whatever it may be, if you can't ask basic questions, even deep, dark questions, if you can't prove it in a church that you go to and worship in this temple that's all clean and high and mighty.

If they're hiding things, that's.

That's secret, not secret.

That's where, like, I don't understand because I have buddies that are Mormon and I.

And we don't really get too deep into it, but they'll tell me things and I'm like, bro, that makes sense to you?